How to fix the Craft/Loot system

Ok, to be helpful, a thread on how to make the loot system simpler, feel free to put in suggestions, as a first sweep, I am not going to pick up everything, but it is the concept.

I understand some properties cannot be Imbued - for example;
Swing Speed Increase.
Splintering.
Battle Lust.
Damage Eaters.
etc.

This quite rightly, or wrongly, creates a demand for PvM loot.

This creates bottle-necks, as you are then after +6/7 other properties that match those - and for every other suit part to balance with this random mix.

Ways around this include;

+ Adding all the missing properties into the Imbuing menu.

+ Create more loot drops, that are clean in the sense of loot items dropping with only the properties missing from the Imbuing menu - then Crafters can add what they actually want to balance suits.

+ Getting rid of antique on jewels, this kills.

+Allow far more customisation of crafted jewels. Imbuing - push them up to 8 properties - and raise the caps to 1000? I don't know, but enough to make 8 properties possible properly. Jewels are often used to balance suits out, and if you cannot find the jewels, you are stuffed. Allow complete control over Crafted jewels.

Off-topic.

Adding a Dismount chance to Mages Earthquake spell - is still a very good idea.
From the sense of logic, lore, and balancing mechanism.

Also off-topic.

My Offensive Mage-spellbook, is also still a very good idea. 🙂

Back on topic - Allowing full customisation over Jewels, can bring Tinkers back into the game.
Quite happy for something to be added into the BoD reward systems to make these concepts possible.

Make it hard, for sure, make the ingredients rare - but the critical point is, make it possible.

Off-topic, and relating to the thread that was closed down.

I am slightly surprised Bots are already back after that item.
That item was given out very cheaply and very recently by the Devs in the most recent event - Weeping Edge which has 30% Splintering - and was Imbuable to achieve the Hit Lightning.
It just shows the burn-through rate of items in the game, and how quickly the players run out.
And/Or this guy believes there is still value in a clean, or top end version.

I agree on everything he just said..give him everything he's asking for!!

You just need more sexy HARDCAP  all around the board anyway..
give him that +1000 he's asking for.. just cap his WHOLE suit at x-K intensity his problem is solve he will just have 1-2 pieces legendary antique power lvl to farm, plenty of time to find these two and build around with non consumable/non BIS gears.. same logic as the skill system.. u limit the juicy buffet with 700-20 HARDCAP.

Personally I loved the fact all my old sexy runic craft 5 properties items had a trojan horse; lower requirement.


This pretty basic skinning knife could do god's work on a sexy 4/6 PvP ninja:


Back then, very few weapons/armor were better than runic crafted one or the few BIS artifacts.. You had some unique artifact level gears, looted from a champion killed with full luck.. some Magic Find weapon (the technic I said) would put to shame the axe of heavens or any valorite crafted weapon.

Not asking to go back to power pre SA or AoS power level.. but yeah HARDCAP this B.


After ~300 bone daemon.. i've find a lot of legendary stuff.. but this is my favorite piece:

I'd still consider this OP if all other pieces on the suit are similar power.. could be broken and yet.. this is NOTHING compare to what u can do 


Give him the world but hardcap his budget.. u just solve all his issue with low effort (working on balance a sweet spot like the 720 skills) plus u can release even MORE powerfull gears give him a 12 properties spellbook.. but strip his mage zerker butt naked.


Edit: an example of good hardcap theorycrafting problem i could have:

This set would be problematic +5 vet and +2 FCR eating into my gears hardcap.

KroDuK said:

I agree on everything he just said..give him everything he's asking for!!

Give him the world but hardcap his budget.. u just solve all his issue with low effort (working on balance) plus u can release even MORE powerfull gears give him a 12 properties spellbook.. but strip his mage zerker butt naked.

lol.
Well, we already live within hard-caps.
My issue is, warriors find their caps easier to achieve than mages do.
I find very few players understand mages.
It is impossible to build the suits I am after.
When you look at the effort players go to equip warriors (your bots), no-one is doing that for mages, therefore I cannot gear myself.

For example, one of my issues could be, it is far too easy to hit 100 Resists, when the hard cap is 70, I would like the ability to reduce resists, to raise a property I am actually after. For example that piece you showed, you will hit 114 Resists, when the cap is 70, then you will be wishing you had more balance across the properties.

KroDuK said:

Edit: an example of good hardcap theorycrafting problem i could have:

This set would be problematic +5 vet and +2 FCR eating into my gears hardcap.

It is not problematic, it is unusable.
Why would I bother to play, if my suit is that much off balance - and there was no chance of improving, or fixing it?

Cookie said:

Ok, to be helpful, a thread on how to make the loot system simpler, feel free to put in suggestions, as a first sweep, I am not going to pick up everything, but it is the concept.

I understand some properties cannot be Imbued - for example;
Swing Speed Increase.
Splintering.
Battle Lust.
Damage Eaters.
etc.

This quite rightly, or wrongly, creates a demand for PvM loot.

This creates bottle-necks, as you are then after +6/7 other properties that match those - and for every other suit part to balance with this random mix.

Ways around this include;

+ Adding all the missing properties into the Imbuing menu.

+ Create more loot drops, that are clean in the sense of loot items dropping with only the properties missing from the Imbuing menu - then Crafters can add what they actually want to balance suits.

+ Getting rid of antique on jewels, this kills.

+Allow far more customisation of crafted jewels. Imbuing - push them up to 8 properties - and raise the caps to 1000? I don't know, but enough to make 8 properties possible properly. Jewels are often used to balance suits out, and if you cannot find the jewels, you are stuffed. Allow complete control over Crafted jewels.

I change my mind deny him everything cuz: "Well, we already live within all that so..." 

Cookie said:

My issue is, warriors find their caps easier to achieve than mages do.
I find very few players understand mages.
It is impossible to build the suits I am after.
When you look at the effort players go to equip warriors (your bots), no-one is doing that for mages, therefore I cannot gear myself.

For example, one of my issues could be, it is far too easy to hit 100 Resists, when the hard cap is 70, I would like the ability to reduce resists, to raise a property I am actually after. For example that piece you showed, you will hit 114 Resists, when the cap is 70, then you will be wishing you had more balance across the properties.

*me, playing hard me, no understand me, me impossible to perfect  me, me effort with me bots and can't me get what me need*

You scrap everything with such a non sense: *too late brah*
Sure, but I play fair here, so once more it's too late cuz: "Well, we already live within full control on perfect customization build"

In conclusion your asking for less resist and more control/customization on the mods to achieve perfection.. This is what gonna happen with hardcap intensity on the whole build.

I'm saying you deserve your finished build on all your characters with limited BIS/consumable gears.. those same builds u could consider updating from time to time depending on your luck or the new BIS items boardsword gonna release to shake up the meta in the future events and bribe your ass... like u do with new skills.


give full control on customization (the world) but limit the budget (intensity/skillcap)
You do god's work but u need a sweet spot then u can go WILD with those BIS with very little consideration balacing wise.. cuz u already did god's work.. let them nerds try to break your balance all u need to do is adjust the problematic properties intensity..

full control (the world) + limitation (budget) = shit tons of OPTIONS.. if everyone travel to spain.. raise the living cost in spain. No one visit..? lower or raise, just help it..

KroDuK said:

Cookie said:

Ok, to be helpful, a thread on how to make the loot system simpler, feel free to put in suggestions, as a first sweep, I am not going to pick up everything, but it is the concept.

I understand some properties cannot be Imbued - for example;
Swing Speed Increase.
Splintering.
Battle Lust.
Damage Eaters.
etc.

This quite rightly, or wrongly, creates a demand for PvM loot.

This creates bottle-necks, as you are then after +6/7 other properties that match those - and for every other suit part to balance with this random mix.

Ways around this include;

+ Adding all the missing properties into the Imbuing menu.

+ Create more loot drops, that are clean in the sense of loot items dropping with only the properties missing from the Imbuing menu - then Crafters can add what they actually want to balance suits.

+ Getting rid of antique on jewels, this kills.

+Allow far more customisation of crafted jewels. Imbuing - push them up to 8 properties - and raise the caps to 1000? I don't know, but enough to make 8 properties possible properly. Jewels are often used to balance suits out, and if you cannot find the jewels, you are stuffed. Allow complete control over Crafted jewels.

I change my mind deny him everything cuz: "Well, we already live within all that so..." 

Cookie said:

My issue is, warriors find their caps easier to achieve than mages do.
I find very few players understand mages.
It is impossible to build the suits I am after.
When you look at the effort players go to equip warriors (your bots), no-one is doing that for mages, therefore I cannot gear myself.

For example, one of my issues could be, it is far too easy to hit 100 Resists, when the hard cap is 70, I would like the ability to reduce resists, to raise a property I am actually after. For example that piece you showed, you will hit 114 Resists, when the cap is 70, then you will be wishing you had more balance across the properties.

*me, playing hard me, no understand me, me impossible to perfect  me, me effort with me bots and can't me get what me need*

You scrap everything with such a non sense: *too late brah*
Sure, but I play fair here, so once more it's too late cuz: "Well, we already live within full control on perfect customization build"

In conclusion your asking for less resist and more control/customization on the mods to achieve perfection.. This is what gonna happen with hardcap intensity on the whole build.

I'm saying you deserve your finished build on all your characters with limited BIS/consumable gears.. those same builds u could consider updating from time to time depending on your luck or the new BIS items boardsword gonna release to shake up the meta in the future events and bribe your ass... like u do with new skills.


give full control on customization (the world) but limit the budget (intensity/skillcap)
You do god's work but u need a sweet spot then u can go WILD with those BIS with very little consideration balacing wise.. cuz u already did god's work.. let them nerds try to break your balance all u need to do is adjust the problematic properties intensity..

full control (the world) + limitation (budget) = shit tons of options.. if everyone travel to spain.. raise the living cost in spain.

I don't use massive skill-caps, and the point I am trying to make to you, is there are hard-caps all over the place, on pretty much every single property anyway. The hard-caps are fine?

When it is possible to over-cap so much on certain properties - it proves to you, they do not mind you having X amount of Intensity, I am not asking for more Intensity, I am not asking to go over any hard-caps.

I am asking for mages to be able to balance properties easier. There are certain things we just do not need, yet as the game is so geared towards warriors, it is impossible to get balance for mages.

Edit - So many of the drop patterns - Of Vitality, Of Sorcery for example, follow a prescribed format of properties, which makes it hard for suit balance to deviate away from. I know they were trying to do their best at the time, to make useful styles.

Cookie said:

I don't use massive skill-caps, and the point I am trying to make to you, is there are hard-caps all over the place, on pretty much every single property anyway. The hard-caps are fine?

This is as far I could read this comment.. i'll do one last try.

What u just said is just well  the skill are already cap at 100 or 120.. why would u need a 720 hard cap.. every new skill (like properties) that release i wanna hit that cap.. YOU NOT CONSIDERING THE OVERALL POWER..

What options do u have when u can achieve THE perfection all skill at GM or Legendary.. u engage with a bow + magery then u melee with pally/samurai/ninja/necro cuz anyway we already have a hardcap.. it's call resources... do not limit my perfect build and fun.. so let me have a limit of MINIMUM 1000 skills point on my build.. we already have full controls on numbers.. so I thank you but I wanna achieve perfection.

I'm suggesting you to achieve your OWN perfection with a sexy hardcap and tons of options not limited by BIS nor limited customization on OP mods, cheater!

KroDuK said:

Cookie said:

I don't use massive skill-caps, and the point I am trying to make to you, is there are hard-caps all over the place, on pretty much every single property anyway. The hard-caps are fine?

This is as far I could read this comment.. i'll do one last try.

What u just said is just well  the skill are already cap at 100 or 120.. why would u need a 720 hard cap.. every new skill (like properties) that release i wanna hit that cap.. YOU NOT CONSIDERING THE OVERALL POWER..

What options do u have when u can achieve THE perfection all skill at GM or Legendary.. u engage with a bow + magery then u melee and pally/samurai/ninja/necro cuz anyway we already have a hardcap.. it's call resources... so let me have a limit of MINIMUM 1000 skills point on my build.. we already have full controls on numbers.. so I thank you but I wanna achieve perfection.

cheater!

Ok, I am not understanding your point.
I do want to achieve balance perfection with my builds, yes.
(Without going above skillcaps, or property hardcaps).

Cookie said:

Ok, I am not understanding your point.
I do want to achieve balance perfection with my builds, yes.
(Without going above skillcaps, or property hardcaps).

God damn u made me lied for playing dumb..

Your not asking to have 160 swordmanship we agree on that.. u just wants 120 sword/parry/resist/tactics/ana/heal/ARCHERY/paladin/NINJA/NECROMANCER/SPIRIT SPEAK/hiding/stealth/alchemy/etc...

Cuz u know perfection and we never had a sexy sweet 700-720 hardcap on skills before to control power creep with a sexy balance.. cuz anyway you are limited by your resources.. so who care about hardcapping skills!

KroDuK said:

Cookie said:

Ok, I am not understanding your point.
I do want to achieve balance perfection with my builds, yes.
(Without going above skillcaps, or property hardcaps).

God damn u made me lied for playing dumb..

Your not asking to have 160 swordmanship we agree on that.. u just wants 120 sword/parry/resist/tactics/ana/heal/ARCHERY/paladin/NINJA/NECROMANCER/SPIRIT SPEAK/hiding/stealth/alchemy/etc...

Cuz u know perfection and we never had a sexy sweet 700-720 hardcap on skills before to control power creep with a sexy balance.. cuz anyway you are limited by your resources.. so who care about hardcapping skills!

I'm happy with 720 skillpoints, I always have been, I do not build too much +skill in my suits.
However, I would not say no to +50 skillpoints, to make 770, my point being there, I do not go overboard on skill-caps.

I am more concerned in fact, with achieving the properties I would like for balance - which are controlled by hard-caps.

Lord_Nythrax said:

We're already at the point where any legendary that doesn't have perfect stat distribution is basically bank floor litter. This thread amounts to a childish cry for the devs to just give you a flawless suit that caps every single stat so you can afford to never think about gear ever again.

Spoiler, it's not gonna happen.

I don't know what people have against achieving perfection. 🙂

It's like you set yourselves up in life to fail, I don't.

We must make it hard.
How do we define hard?
By making it not a possibility, we must set up to fail before we even begin.

So, what is the point?

The point is to keep people hunting, keep them pulling the handle on the slot machine, not hand them a Helmet of You Win so that they can stop playing.

Lord_Nythrax said:

The point is to keep people hunting, keep them pulling the handle on the slot machine, not hand them a Helmet of You Win so that they can stop playing.

It's also good to achieve goals.
Then you can play end-game content, or work on a 2nd character.
I can say this for sure, no-one has stopped playing because they completed UO, yet plenty have left.
In other words, you are peddling a fallacy, because your theory has never happened yet.
Maybe not completing goals is more de-motivating.

Transparently dumb and will never happen. This thread is a waste of pixels. This game has the absolute worst and least knowledgeable playerbase of any I've ever seen. It's all elderly people who have never played any other game and don't know how anything works.

I disagree on that, i've meet a couple knowledgeable person on UO.. the dude just want a better cheat code for his gears.. he dislike the combination offered by the dev team or a "waste of good stats" on his BIS gears..

Lord_Nythrax said:

Transparently dumb and will never happen. This thread is a waste of pixels. This game has the absolute worst and least knowledgeable playerbase of any I've ever seen. It's all elderly people who have never played any other game and don't know how anything works.

Define elderly, worst, and least knowledgeable?
I think the 13 y/o, 16 y/o, and 19 y/o Elite ranking Fortnite and Champion rank Rocket League players on my team will disagree with you. 🙂

Would you like to compare and match any personal, or gaming stats with me?
Happy to do it in private.

Cookie said:

Define elderly, worst, and least knowledgeable?

Lord_Nythrax said:

Cookie said:

Define elderly, worst, and least knowledgeable?

Sure. It's the kind of player who comes out and says "Dear devs, please make it trivial to get equipment that caps out every stat!" because they're too thick to see how this would leave everyone bored with no reason to do PVM once they get their full suit of 1000 weight eight-property imbued gear. Just complete ignorant shit where someone knows they want to be strong in the game, but can't look past their own nose long enough to figure out that there's probably a game design reason for why statistically perfect clean legendaries don't drop off of every mongbat.

We've got you with this, we've got that other guy around here who thinks making every event item account bound and cutting the price by 90% will somehow make people grind more, and any time the economy comes up there's always at least a couple of chuckleheads who think someone selling a cash shop item for someone else's already-existing gold creates inflation. It's the absolute pits. Half the reason the devs are so out of touch is because this community generates so much obvious garbage feedback.

Good job I never said lets make it trivial I guess.

Then there is you, who does not play (or at least posts with so little knowledge you have to assume he does not play - it will be hilarious if someone with so little knowledge turns around and says he actually plays), and sits and judges everyone thinking he knows best?
When you don't.

Name any concept you have ever said that is useful?

I at least put them out there as suggestions to be discussed.
Judging by your response, you feel threatened.
You seem to have an agenda.

End of the day, I play the game a lot. I play it with a lot of people. I have a lot of gaming experience. I am far smarter than you, and can see concepts far better, and with far more foresight than you can.

I understand you think you are clever. You are miles behind me.

Lord_Nythrax said:

This idea wasn't even worthy of discussion, it was a big dumb fart you ripped and then tried to justify with some laughably flimsy non-logic. Like check this out.

Ok, lets go back to basics for you, I realise I jump too far ahead sometimes for some people.

Why are streams of bots happening?
Because they are trying to force the numbers, by putting in infinite hours of play, that the normal player base cannot and will not achieve.

What are they after?
Splintering. and Hit Lightning. Or other properties that cannot be got with a reasonable range of playing.

What can we do about them?
We can physically have to police them all, and ban every single one - seems a bit nanny state - especially for a game like UO where the premise is a world in a sandbox. OR, we can accept there is a design flaw in the game, and make certain concepts more possible.

What are the possible problems?
One, could be these exact items are missing off the Imbuing menu.

How is this a problem?
Well, with Imbuing, you can customise items how you want, up to a degree, so quite often, the lack of property intensities is ok, because you were able to achieve the balance you wanted. You see right here, I am not asking for more intensities - I am saying, if you achieved more balance, you can even reduce intensities sometimes, and Imbued stuff can be ok. BUT only if you are able to have the full compliment of properties.

What is the problem with PvM loot drop items?
Sometimes, their Intensities go to 1200 property weight, and we are still not happy. 

Why is this?
Because their balance is wrong. It is not possible in fact, to get their balance correct, due to certain loot rules, or the serious amount of RNG required. So where as many people are asking for more Intensity - I am asking for more Balance, and saying, we can reduce Intensity.

What is the Balance I am after?
It usually includes being able to have more control over the items missing from the Crafting menu. Splintering, Damage Eaters, Swing Speed Increase, Battle Lust, Hit Fatigue, Sparks, Even Spell Damage Increase + removing Casting Focus. Whilst Warriors benefit from this system of massive properties - ie they can use all 1200 property weights - Mages cannot, and do not benefit from this system. Mages need more balance than the system allows us. I am left frustrated at the inability, and the impossibility to complete any suit - and it is not down to hours played, effort, or wealth, or intelligence to put the suit together - the items are impossible to find, yet should be possible within this system.

It has become apparent to me, you are a Sampire. Of course you think the system is ok. Me talking to a Sampire is like Einstein talking to a baby.

Back to the Bots, the ironic thing about them, is they are only after TWO properties sometimes.

So what could possible fixes be?

1. We could include these missing properties into the Imbuing Menu - to help achieve balance.

2. More Clean PvM loot drops could happen, for example, that ONLY had say Damage Eater on them, or Splinter on them, or Swing Speed Increase on them (I know SSI does happen on Jewels - one of the few examples), if more Clean items dropped, Crafters could pick up on them, and Customise the rest.

3. I asked for complete control and Customisation by Tinkers over Jewels. This would bring Crafters and Tinkers back into the game, and give them a really valuable purpose. Jewels could be used to balance off, and complete suits, like they were in the old days, before it all went mental. I did not say make it Trivial, I said it could be added to the BoD menus, to add in more content for crafters.

4. My personal request - not directly related to the topic, but it is also relevant to why the Botters are botting so much, as I destroy jewels before I can even finish suits, which renders entire suits and characters  obsolete, I asked to get rid of Antique on jewels, a personal bugbear for sure. It makes my characters unplayable. I'm a player, I want to play. Getting rid of Antique on jewels, is not going to lead to me quitting the game, it is going to lead to me enjoying the game a lot more, and enjoying the content a lot more. Did you know - I have to decline Arena Duels every single day, because my suits will get destroyed, and I need to save my suits for real PvP. Splintering items, and Antique jewels wear out extremely fast, so need replacing hard, hence you see the Bots after splintering and jewels. You could reduce the number of Bots, without having to police, by getting rid of Antique on Jewels.

So.
I was responding to why there are so many Bots, and how the need for them could be reduced, with more balanced game design.


I am happy for you, to take your Sampire hat off, and discuss any of those items I suggested, logically.

Nah this still isn't worth discussing. They're never gonna run this game's reward cycle into the toilet at triple speed just because it would make you happy to have perfect gear. But yeah if they increased the imbuing cap to a million zillion and let you put fifty properties on everything and make loot worthless, botting would indeed stop along with all other activity. Great point.

Lord_Nythrax said:

Nah this still isn't worth discussing. They're never gonna run this game's reward cycle into the toilet at triple speed just because it would make you happy to have perfect gear. But yeah if they increased the imbuing cap to a million zillion and let you put fifty properties on everything and make loot worthless, botting would indeed stop along with all other activity. Great point.

You manage not to read a single point. It is amazing. I never said any of that.
I argue with stupid a lot, but I can't argue with this stupid, time for me to bail. 🙂