Crafted vs loot

Every looted item (arties included) should have a craftable counter part  

So we have no reason to kill stuff?  


The reason UO has lasted 25 years is because our suits can be upgraded.

I don't think UO dollhouse would be able to sustain itself.

You would still have to collect ingredients but nice try if you want to contribute to the discussion i welcome input but if you're just gonna sugar troll we're gonna end up back in the principal's office. ..

I stick with.  Why would we kill stuff.  What ingredients?  The 60k things players already have?

This is just a troll thread.  Have fun.

Crafting most certainly should be on par with looted items making them should be difficult but possible 

The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.

Seth said:

The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.

I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....

Well, we can't unring the bell. But I do think it would have made for a more interesting and interactive UO world if special prizes, let's say Crimson Cincture for example, came to us by a means more akin to something like this...


*A Crimson Belt, a sought-after drop found on Peerless mobs. The belt alone does little but is a powerful ingredient. To get to your goal of owning a Crimson Cincture you'll still need other specific ingredients and particular crafting skills:  
*Blue Diamond for Dexterity Bonus
*Luminescent Fungi for Hit Point Increase
*Seed of Renewal for Hit Point Regeneration
*Imbuing ingredient/s gained through unravelling ( Relic Fragment / Magical Residue / Enchanted Essence or some combination thereof).
*Leather or Cloth or both
*A player with Imbuing / Tailoring skills is needed to craft the piece.

Something like this would have covered a lot of bases. It would have appeal to skilled fighters, capable of finding a Crimson Belt drop.  Players who enjoy resource gathering. Players who enjoy crafting. And would be a good seller on player vendors.

It would work both ways, Popps. Fighters and Crafters both would be needed.

Edit: To add, I realize this all sort of falls under imbuing here, but this is just one example of how multiple players and player skills could have been called into play. Rather than artifacts and single drops being all that was involved to reach the prize.
 

Both Seth and Lily get the idea 

popps said:

Seth said:

The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.

I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....

How to state this in a way @popps could understand this.  You would be crafting this stuff for a non-crafter type of char.  Now that char. could belong to you on another player, if he belongs to you than that char is not a crafter and is able to go collect resources for your crafter.  If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both.  You thinking that crafters with no other skills should be able to get their resources with no help is totally unreal.  Even in UO a blacksmith needs a non crafting skill like MINING to go gather ore or a Carpenter/Fletcher needs a non-crafting like LUMBERJACK to gather and mill wood.  How do you get leather without a warrior to go kill and skin animals.  You complain about crafters relying on warriors to get their resources so shouldn't you also take up the fight for the warriors who rely on crafters to keep them outfitted.  For 25 years UO has been this way and if you dislike it so much then why are you here still complaining, you should have left a long time ago.  You have a Tamer, Casters and Warriors, we know this because you are always complaining about what they can not do, so what is your problem.  Yes there are some resources that cost a lot to get and if you are making stuff that requires them then you prices for those goods should reflect the cost of goods plus your labor to make them.  So now I guess you will complain about how unfair that crafters need to know about being a merchant to properly know how to buy and sell.  I will close with the FACT that you are toxic to UO and if I only read your posts then I would never play UO because according to you UO SUCKS.  Go play on TC where you can get unlimited resources for free and leave the real uo to the real uo players.

 Two approaches
Let's take a scholar's halo a strange bandana falls into your pack first thing it would have to be identified (remember when id item was cool) as there should be 2 version a good and cursed (more later) after you learn what it is you gotta go get this and that to "activate" 

Second scenario same item but crafter has to somehow find recipes then gather resources 

There is no downside to this people who want to grind can etc

Ok people are going to right away cry you'll flood the market it'll lose value i say good i don't care about your market..

McDougle said:

Crafting most certainly should be on par with looted items making them should be difficult but possible 

I would agree with this with reforging.

I'd rather push for better imbuing personally. Increased base resists with a few added mods bringing imbuing on par to high end major equip. Leave the best of the best equip for hunters. 

I'm positive just a few years ago we had almost this identical thread where they were going to discuss ways to boost crafting. 

Here is the thing 
Weapons almost exclusively crafted very few looted and arties used
Armor much more mixed most looted armor better than what we can craft this is area that needs most improvement 

McDougle said:

Here is the thing 
Weapons almost exclusively crafted very few looted and arties used
Armor much more mixed most looted armor better than what we can craft this is area that needs most improvement 

Imbued jewels need a boost too. 

The loot variety now is the best we've ever had.  remember when ALL the best gear was crafted?  that wasnt fun.  then ALL the best gear was imbued.  also not fun.  we have a pretty good mix now, and prices have come way way down compared to gearing a character 10-15 years ago.

its nice to have some rare items for people wanting to min / max, an alternatives.

there would be absolutely no way the devs could make a craftable item and its loot component equal.  each item would either be crafted, or looted.  whichever was cheaper / easier.  theres really no reason to have both, as the end result would be the same as we have now with some craftable some lootable.

Urge said:

McDougle said:

Here is the thing 
Weapons almost exclusively crafted very few looted and arties used
Armor much more mixed most looted armor better than what we can craft this is area that needs most improvement 

Imbued jewels need a boost too. 

Tinker and all crafts need to be brought in line with tailor and blacksmith raised to 120 and definitely needing runics 

Lord_Frodo said:

popps said:

Seth said:

The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.

I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....

How to state this in a way @ popps could understand this.  You would be crafting this stuff for a non-crafter type of char.  Now that char. could belong to you on another player, if he belongs to you than that char is not a crafter and is able to go collect resources for your crafter.  If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both.  You thinking that crafters with no other skills should be able to get their resources with no help is totally unreal.  Even in UO a blacksmith needs a non crafting skill like MINING to go gather ore or a Carpenter/Fletcher needs a non-crafting like LUMBERJACK to gather and mill wood.  How do you get leather without a warrior to go kill and skin animals.  You complain about crafters relying on warriors to get their resources so shouldn't you also take up the fight for the warriors who rely on crafters to keep them outfitted.  For 25 years UO has been this way and if you dislike it so much then why are you here still complaining, you should have left a long time ago.  You have a Tamer, Casters and Warriors, we know this because you are always complaining about what they can not do, so what is your problem.  Yes there are some resources that cost a lot to get and if you are making stuff that requires them then you prices for those goods should reflect the cost of goods plus your labor to make them.  So now I guess you will complain about how unfair that crafters need to know about being a merchant to properly know how to buy and sell.  I will close with the FACT that you are toxic to UO and if I only read your posts then I would never play UO because according to you UO SUCKS.  Go play on TC where you can get unlimited resources for free and leave the real uo to the real uo players.

If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both. 

That is the concept, to my opinion, which screwed up players solely interested in crafting for good with the Mondain's Legacy materials only (or mostly) obtainable through fighting (also the imbuing ones, for that matter....).

Players who had crafting "mules", that is, they had fighting characters as their "main" and then had "also" crafting characters to be self-sufficient for the materials needed by their crafters, not only lowered the demand for crafted items since many players had their crafting "mules" and thus did not need to buy from fellow players who had "pure" crafters, but, also, since they were getting the materials on their own, through their fighters, they were "also" able to undersell "pure" crafters for crafted items who, instead, had to pay jacked up prices for their materials from other players who had fighters...

Result, "pure" crafters went, for the most part, the way of the Dodo.....

The only crafting which resisted as available for players who really loved crafting (not fighting) and thus had their mains as "pure" crafters, were items particularly complex and complicated to craft requiring a deep knowledge of all of the ins and outs about crafting, enhancing, imbuing, reforging and all that.... because lots of players who had crafters as only their "mules", did not want to invest too much effort in all of the complexities of crafting and only did the "surface" crafting, not the deep, complex crafting...

But, unfortunately, that was not enough to support the large community of crafters that Ultima Online once had... and that is how, to my opinion, we ended up in today's UO with the rather depressing state of crafting that there is.....

Urge said:

McDougle said:

Crafting most certainly should be on par with looted items making them should be difficult but possible 

I would agree with this with reforging.

I'd rather push for better imbuing personally. Increased base resists with a few added mods bringing imbuing on par to high end major equip. Leave the best of the best equip for hunters. 

I'm positive just a few years ago we had almost this identical thread where they were going to discuss ways to boost crafting. 

I'm positive just a few years ago we had almost this identical thread where they were going to discuss ways to boost crafting.

Meh, a good while back, if I recall it correctly, I read posts in these Forums about the Developers having some good ideas on how to improve Rogues and thieving..... I was hoping to see Rogues being implemented in the "Treasures of" Events with stealing from Monsters, hidden chests and all that Rogues could do to get their Artifacts to then turn in for Rewards but we are still here waiting.....

Unless we go back to one character per account the days of crafters being "needed " are done let go of the past 

We have advanced and know how to play UO more efficiently. I spent a year or more having a mix of skills on the one character that I played.

Smoot said:

The loot variety now is the best we've ever had.  remember when ALL the best gear was crafted?  that wasnt fun.  then ALL the best gear was imbued.  also not fun.  we have a pretty good mix now, and prices have come way way down compared to gearing a character 10-15 years ago.

its nice to have some rare items for people wanting to min / max, an alternatives.

there would be absolutely no way the devs could make a craftable item and its loot component equal.  each item would either be crafted, or looted.  whichever was cheaper / easier.  theres really no reason to have both, as the end result would be the same as we have now with some craftable some lootable.

Actually that was a fun time I really enjoyed. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean others didn't like it.

And no if an item could be both looted or crafted some players would go for each depending on their preference. If I like the battle to get the drop I'll get that version if not I would prefer the option of crafting it. Some people enjoy sourcing the ingredients and crafting something for them selves.

To butcher a quote from Spider Robinson "If you go into a sex shop you will notice that no more the 10% of the product interests any one person and it is NEVER  the same 10%"

Trying to make All parts of UO appeal to All players is a fools errand and will destroy the game.

Sorry if this seem a personal attack it's not intended to be. This one size fits all attitude is just a hot button issue for me.

Yeah, 100% agreed they should not force one size fit all.

E.g. for those shards who have many players who supported shard bound items, should lock up the shard and stop character transfer. You asked for it, so you may have it but only for YOUR shard.

While the rest of the shards with majority voted to keep shard transfer open, shall enjoy 100% character shard transfer for all items and rewards.

That said back to OP, crafted versions of dynamic event rewards are welcomed and should be non shard bound for the "normal shards".

popps said:

Lord_Frodo said:

popps said:

Seth said:

The craftable artifact would need rare or hard to get ingredients, which may be obtained as a rare drop from bosses. There are already several arties that is crafted this way, e.g. dark fathers, etc. So this design isn't new, just need to add more, e.g. making use of the 99% of crap arties to make useful ones.

If the request is about using easy-to-get ingredients then that is unlikely to happen.

I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies.... this either forces players interested into mainly crafting to "have to" have a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, or become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials who cost a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy....

How to state this in a way @ popps could understand this.  You would be crafting this stuff for a non-crafter type of char.  Now that char. could belong to you on another player, if he belongs to you than that char is not a crafter and is able to go collect resources for your crafter.  If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both.  You thinking that crafters with no other skills should be able to get their resources with no help is totally unreal.  Even in UO a blacksmith needs a non crafting skill like MINING to go gather ore or a Carpenter/Fletcher needs a non-crafting like LUMBERJACK to gather and mill wood.  How do you get leather without a warrior to go kill and skin animals.  You complain about crafters relying on warriors to get their resources so shouldn't you also take up the fight for the warriors who rely on crafters to keep them outfitted.  For 25 years UO has been this way and if you dislike it so much then why are you here still complaining, you should have left a long time ago.  You have a Tamer, Casters and Warriors, we know this because you are always complaining about what they can not do, so what is your problem.  Yes there are some resources that cost a lot to get and if you are making stuff that requires them then you prices for those goods should reflect the cost of goods plus your labor to make them.  So now I guess you will complain about how unfair that crafters need to know about being a merchant to properly know how to buy and sell.  I will close with the FACT that you are toxic to UO and if I only read your posts then I would never play UO because according to you UO SUCKS.  Go play on TC where you can get unlimited resources for free and leave the real uo to the real uo players.

If you are selling your items to other players then you could accept resources or gold for that item or both. 

That is the concept, to my opinion, which screwed up players solely interested in crafting for good with the Mondain's Legacy materials only (or mostly) obtainable through fighting (also the imbuing ones, for that matter....).

Players who had crafting "mules", that is, they had fighting characters as their "main" and then had "also" crafting characters to be self-sufficient for the materials needed by their crafters, not only lowered the demand for crafted items since many players had their crafting "mules" and thus did not need to buy from fellow players who had "pure" crafters, but, also, since they were getting the materials on their own, through their fighters, they were "also" able to undersell "pure" crafters for crafted items who, instead, had to pay jacked up prices for their materials from other players who had fighters...

Result, "pure" crafters went, for the most part, the way of the Dodo.....

The only crafting which resisted as available for players who really loved crafting (not fighting) and thus had their mains as "pure" crafters, were items particularly complex and complicated to craft requiring a deep knowledge of all of the ins and outs about crafting, enhancing, imbuing, reforging and all that.... because lots of players who had crafters as only their "mules", did not want to invest too much effort in all of the complexities of crafting and only did the "surface" crafting, not the deep, complex crafting...

But, unfortunately, that was not enough to support the large community of crafters that Ultima Online once had... and that is how, to my opinion, we ended up in today's UO with the rather depressing state of crafting that there is.....

I have no clue what game you are dreaming of but I have played real UO for over 25 years and I started out as a crafter as my main with a warrior as support.  Pure crafters have always been reliant on other people providing them with raw material to make weapons/armor and it is still true today as it was in the beginning

best items should always be on loot

creampie said:

best items should always be on loot

Then what are crafters for 

Best of the best maybe, but crafters should sure as crap be able to make something close enough to be decent.

Crafted armor is too bad to even use for training. 

Skett said:

creampie said:

best items should always be on loot

Then what are crafters for 

To create fill in items.  Like for Dexxers, Gorgets, arms and Chests if you dont use the Balron ones.
Arties are: Feudal grips, Britches of warding, which crafters make, Mace and shield or prismatic.

Mages for Spellwoven Britches if you are an elf, Chest, gorget, and gloves.
Arties are: Cuffs of archmage , Dr. Spectors or Halo (crafted), pants from fishing.

You could also craft a complete suit for Swords and Magery if you want. 

Like I said in another thread, all of my dexxers wear reforged pieces.
None of my weapons are looted, all are crafted.

Most luck suits have many crafted pieces.

Ok 

So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???

McDougle said:

So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???

Why would we play every day?  To make a suit and do nothing with it?

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???

Why would we play every day?  To make a suit and do nothing with it?

Crafting a artie would require difficult to obtain ingredients time and resources no one is asking for an easy button simply to have A. Their favorite class on equal footing and B. Alternative ways to get things and yes my suits are worth 100s of millions and I fish and pirate with them..

Pawain said:

Why would we play every day?

The same reason people played daily before ML when armor didn't even matter. The thrill of the hunt? Quality time with friends? Stuff to sell?

Don't act like everyone will suddenly stop farming for crafting which is the lulz.

We've really needed a middle ground for years. 

In theory, all items including loot are crafted by someone... they don't pop out of thin air. 

As player characters have legendary skills, then why call them legendary when they can't craft the best item in the game. All they need to do is tweak the type of ingredients... make a sword out of meteorite rocks or Virtuebane's bone, etc.

Urge said:

Pawain said:

Why would we play every day?

The same reason people played daily before ML when armor didn't even matter. The thrill of the hunt? Quality time with friends? Stuff to sell?

Don't act like everyone will suddenly stop farming for crafting which is the lulz.

We've really needed a middle ground for years. 

 Well it sounds like NL will be pre ML loot.  Lets see how many months that will be fun. 😂

It was only fun then because we could still get upgraded loot and we did not know any better.

Pawain said:

Skett said:

creampie said:

best items should always be on loot

Then what are crafters for 

To create fill in items.  Like for Dexxers, Gorgets, arms and Chests if you dont use the Balron ones.
Arties are: Feudal grips, Britches of warding, which crafters make, Mace and shield or prismatic.

Mages for Spellwoven Britches if you are an elf, Chest, gorget, and gloves.
Arties are: Cuffs of archmage , Dr. Spectors or Halo (crafted), pants from fishing.

You could also craft a complete suit for Swords and Magery if you want. 

Like I said in another thread, all of my dexxers wear reforged pieces.
None of my weapons are looted, all are crafted.

Most luck suits have many crafted pieces.

I disagree.

Work is work, whether it is a fighter's work or a crafter's work effort.

It all depends on how the Developers Design and code the effort to be invested by players in either aspect of gameplay.

Fighters may have dangerousness as their complicacy aspect, Crafters, instead, may have the difficulty in their crafting process as theirs....

I do not see why Crafting should be seen as "under par" as compared to fighting... to me, they should be seen equally, as on the same level and footing and it just depends on how both are Designed and coded but sure thing, crafting can be Designed to have its difficulties and complexities.

McDougle said:

So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???

Then, why was an ENTIRE Ultima Online expansion like Mondain's Legacy Designed and created which, pretty much, revolved around the entire idea of Crafters being able to craft Artifacts ??

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???

Why would we play every day?  To make a suit and do nothing with it?

Crafting a artie would require difficult to obtain ingredients time and resources no one is asking for an easy button simply to have A. Their favorite class on equal footing and B. Alternative ways to get things and yes my suits are worth 100s of millions and I fish and pirate with them..

Personally, rather then from the materials, the difficulties of crafting should source from a complex, difficult and time consuming process which only DEDICATED players who would use Crafters as their mains, would be willing to be involved into....

It should be so complicated, complex and time consuming, that players who enjoy fighting, would never want to be bothered with crafting leaving it to crafters who, instead, would still get into it because highly motivated by their enjoyment from crafting gameplay.

popps said:

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???

Why would we play every day?  To make a suit and do nothing with it?

Crafting a artie would require difficult to obtain ingredients time and resources no one is asking for an easy button simply to have A. Their favorite class on equal footing and B. Alternative ways to get things and yes my suits are worth 100s of millions and I fish and pirate with them..

Personally, rather then from the materials, the difficulties of crafting should source from a complex, difficult and time consuming process which only DEDICATED players who would use Crafters as their mains, would be willing to be involved into....

It should be so complicated, complex and time consuming, that players who enjoy fighting, would never want to be bothered with crafting leaving it to crafters who, instead, would still get into it because highly motivated by their enjoyment from crafting gameplay.

There should be a relationship between the two.  warriors need gear, crafters need difficult to get ingredients. the point is that if you popps want to be your crafter you have paddy cakes get your dragon liver and bane bones so you'll be able to craft his lance of Mcdougle slaying 

McDougle said:

popps said:

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

So we shouldn't be able to craft arties?? Why not ???

Why would we play every day?  To make a suit and do nothing with it?

Crafting a artie would require difficult to obtain ingredients time and resources no one is asking for an easy button simply to have A. Their favorite class on equal footing and B. Alternative ways to get things and yes my suits are worth 100s of millions and I fish and pirate with them..

Personally, rather then from the materials, the difficulties of crafting should source from a complex, difficult and time consuming process which only DEDICATED players who would use Crafters as their mains, would be willing to be involved into....

It should be so complicated, complex and time consuming, that players who enjoy fighting, would never want to be bothered with crafting leaving it to crafters who, instead, would still get into it because highly motivated by their enjoyment from crafting gameplay.

There should be a relationship between the two.  warriors need gear, crafters need difficult to get ingredients. the point is that if you popps want to be your crafter you have paddy cakes get your dragon liver and bane bones so you'll be able to craft his lance of Mcdougle slaying 

The reason why I dislike the idea that a non-combat character, a Crafter, has to rely on combat characters for their materials supplies is that this, either forces players interested into mainly crafting, to "have to have " a fighting character even if they do not enjoy fighting, in order to fullfill their materials supplies, OR, it makes Crafters become totally dependant on other players with fighting characters, in order to be able to obtain the needed materials for their crafted wares.....

The argument being, that not only players with fighting characters and crafting "mules" reduce demand for Crafted Wares, necessarily, since they are self sufficient having a fighting character to gather materials and then a crafting "mule" to make for their crafter whatever crafted items they want/need and so do not need to buy crafted items from Crafters (which reduces demand) BUT, can also undersell players who use Crafters as their mains since players with fighting characters do not pay for their crafting materials as they can gather their own and can, therefore, price items which their "mule" crafter was to make, at a much lower price as compared to players who have Crafter characters as their main, might be able to sell, when they have to be subject to a price "monopoly" from fighting characters who gather the resources....

And we have seen what happened with Mondain's Legacy crafting materials sourced from fighting who quickly reached a ridicolous high price and contributed to the raise of inflation in Ultima Online which did so much bad to the game's economy and the demise as Crafters used in Utima Online as a "main" character....

@popps mmorpg...

Fighters kill to get rare ingredients

Crafters use such ingredients to craft weapons for fighters.

They are always dependent on the other, even in real life.

You might as well play Sim city

@popps so you want crafters to craft the most powerful weapon for the warrior class but hate to take anything from warrior to make the weapon..

omg...

Crafting and hunting is a symbiotic relationship, it's the way the game is designed, some of us enjoy both aspects of the play and so have both character types. That doesn't make our crafters 'mules'. 
Most of my characters have a mix of pieces in their suits, some crafted, some looted (mostly out of those 'crap' treasure chests) and some special artifact drops. 
I am also part of an alliance that stocks a shop. In that shop we sell simply, cheaply crafted weapons and basic imbued LRC suits. While some players believe that those suits aren't fit to train it, that doesn't stop the vendor selling out on a regular and frequent basis.
Not everyone plays enough, and on a sufficiently high skill level, to afford the mega-million priced armor pieces. Someone has to cater for those. We do.  

High level crafting exists, making things like britches of warding, scholar's halo, cuffs of the archmage etc.

Seth said:

@ popps mmorpg...

Fighters kill to get rare ingredients

Crafters use such ingredients to craft weapons for fighters.

They are always dependent on the other, even in real life.

You might as well play Sim city

As I expained, that which you described is "theory".... to my opinion, "myth", in practice, as I tried to explain in my post above, it works MUCH differently and it ends up penalizing pure crafting players who end up with a market with much less demand for crafted wares (because of self sufficient fighters players with "mule" crafters) AND "jacked up" prices for crafting materials because of the "monopoly" which fighters have on them....

And the end result of such, to my opinion, broken Design  is that inevitably all players end up having to have, necessarily, a fighter and a crafter, even if some of them prefer mostly or only fighting and some others only or mostly crafting....

Seth said:

@ popps so you want crafters to craft the most powerful weapon for the warrior class but hate to take anything from warrior to make the weapon..

omg...

Fighters be them fighters, crafters be them crafters.

The difficulties for fighting should be Designed and revolve around Fighting while instead, the difficulties for crafting should be Designed and revolve around Crafting.

"Mixing up" the 2 as I tried to explain in my post above, only results in all players eventually realizing that they all have to have BOTH a fighter and a crafter to get going.... and this, whether they primarilt enjoy fighting gameplay or whether they primarily enjoy crafting gameplay.....

And if all players have both a fighter and a crafter to get going, nobody needs to buy crafted wares because they can make their own (self-sufficiency) and crafting in that game dies out.... as it pretty much did in Ultima Online, me thinks.....

popps said:

Seth said:

@ popps mmorpg...

Fighters kill to get rare ingredients

Crafters use such ingredients to craft weapons for fighters.

They are always dependent on the other, even in real life.

You might as well play Sim city

As I expained, that which you described is "theory".... to my opinion, "myth", in practice, as I tried to explain in my post above, it works MUCH differently and it ends up penalizing pure crafting players who end up with a market with much less demand for crafted wares (because of self sufficient fighters players with "mule" crafters) AND "jacked up" prices for crafting materials because of the "monopoly" which fighters have on them....

And the end result of such, to my opinion, broken Design  is that inevitably all players end up having to have, necessarily, a fighter and a crafter, even if some of them prefer mostly or only fighting and some others only or mostly crafting....

Popps - this game is almost 25 years old with dozens of professions. You are literally trying to completely segregate them all and in the process remove reasons to play the game. There is a reason we have up to 7 char slots. It's also the reason there are soulstones; so that you can swap around skills because a single character can't have every single crafting skill; so people aren't dependent on another crafter to make stuff.

If you don't want to subscribe to this then go play Siege as whatever template you want and be dependent on the other templates to play the game. 

How quickly your argument will fall apart when you opt to only be a craftsman (btw - at this point we know you have at one fighter/tamer/thief) and nobody wants to buy your wares. Then what do you do? Would you cry about how the game is broken because people aren't being forced to buy the things you make or would you just hop on one of your other characters and go fight stuff? 

WE REALLY NEED LIKE BUTTON   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Petra_Fyde said:

Crafting and hunting is a symbiotic relationship, it's the way the game is designed, some of us enjoy both aspects of the play and so have both character types. 

Imbuing is what i think really needs a bump and the reason i'm voicing my opinion in this thread. This very team gave us a wonderful opportunity that provided an equal middle ground for slashers and crafters alike. That went down the crapper as they started to funnel us all into doing their instances to get gear with darn near double the stats as anything imbuing could give. 

Petra_Fyde said:

we sell simply, cheaply crafted weapons and basic imbued LRC suits. While some players believe that those suits aren't fit to train it, that doesn't stop the vendor selling out on a regular and frequent basis.

My caster training suits are made of unusable cursed and antique items. Most pieces are +10mana 5int 4mr that decrease training time by hours with stats you just can't imbue. 

Petra_Fyde said:

Not everyone plays enough, and on a sufficiently high skill level, to afford the mega-million priced armor pieces. Someone has to cater for those. We do. 

Again, the exact reason for this and it applies to imbuing only. Just because someone doesn't have time to grind and monster bash doesn't mean they should never have access to upper quality pieces that could be obtained from crafting. 

Decent armor should NOT just be a luxury for the rich. Special drops like cameos and high end crafted pieces like max luck and feudal grips should. 

I think a quick fix for this would to be making the reforged armor options like structural / fundamental give a chance at more properties/high intensities... while also defaulting a higher durability if selecting the fortified/integral (if using 2 charges for durability it should be 255 max durb).  These items will be brittle (ie no fort powder) or non repairable so why not make them stronger (especially for something that cannot be repaired).

Decent armor should NOT just be a luxury for the rich. Special drops like cameos and high end crafted pieces like max luck and feudal grips should. 

I agree with much of what you've said. I like imbuing for it's control over what you do, but wish it did a little more. However, while I might wish very much that decent armor not be for the rich, Players set the prices, and I often feel that prices on items are much higher than justified by what goes into them. People are just greedy. 

keven2002 said:

popps said:

Seth said:

@ popps mmorpg...

Fighters kill to get rare ingredients

Crafters use such ingredients to craft weapons for fighters.

They are always dependent on the other, even in real life.

You might as well play Sim city

As I expained, that which you described is "theory".... to my opinion, "myth", in practice, as I tried to explain in my post above, it works MUCH differently and it ends up penalizing pure crafting players who end up with a market with much less demand for crafted wares (because of self sufficient fighters players with "mule" crafters) AND "jacked up" prices for crafting materials because of the "monopoly" which fighters have on them....

And the end result of such, to my opinion, broken Design  is that inevitably all players end up having to have, necessarily, a fighter and a crafter, even if some of them prefer mostly or only fighting and some others only or mostly crafting....

Popps - this game is almost 25 years old with dozens of professions. You are literally trying to completely segregate them all and in the process remove reasons to play the game. There is a reason we have up to 7 char slots. It's also the reason there are soulstones; so that you can swap around skills because a single character can't have every single crafting skill; so people aren't dependent on another crafter to make stuff.

If you don't want to subscribe to this then go play Siege as whatever template you want and be dependent on the other templates to play the game. 

How quickly your argument will fall apart when you opt to only be a craftsman (btw - at this point we know you have at one fighter/tamer/thief) and nobody wants to buy your wares. Then what do you do? Would you cry about how the game is broken because people aren't being forced to buy the things you make or would you just hop on one of your other characters and go fight stuff? 

You talk about Professions in Ultima Online..... right ?

Yet, a Profession necessarily involves being a paid "service" to others.... crafting wares to oneself, is NOT a Profession, in my book....

So, if we have all UO players eventually ending up with Fighters AND Crafters, crafting ENDS being a Profession because all players, or pretty much most of them , become self-sufficient and can craft their own wares.

And, basically, this is the current status of Ultima Online, to my viewing.... Crafting is no longer pretty much a "Profession" and most players have crafting "mules" which they use to support their "main" Fighting characters.

This KILLS Crafting as a "main" gameplay Profession, effectively.

In order to re-store Crafting as a real and complete Profession in Ultima Online, it would be necessary, as I see it, to make crafting a complex and time consuming endeavour big enough for those players mainly enjoying fighting not to want to deal with it (and thus be willing to buy from those players playing Crafting as their "main" occupation in UO) but, STILL, viable and enjoyable for those players who, instead, want to play Crafters as their "Main" occupation in Ultima Online.

keven2002 said:

I think a quick fix for this would to be making the reforged armor options like structural / fundamental give a chance at more properties/high intensities... while also defaulting a higher durability if selecting the fortified/integral (if using 2 charges for durability it should be 255 max durb).  These items will be brittle (ie no fort powder) or non repairable so why not make them stronger (especially for something that cannot be repaired).

I'd be happy with antique if it were comparable stats and relatively easy to craft. The brittle loot drops would still be sought after but crafters could make quality replacements if need be. 

Petra_Fyde said:

I agree with much of what you've said. I like imbuing for it's control over what you do, but wish it did a little more. However, while I might wish very much that decent armor not be for the rich, Players set the prices, and I often feel that prices on items are much higher than justified by what goes into them. People are just greedy. 

Exact reason i love imbuing as well. I can see some of the prices being reasonable for the drop rate but yes, for the most part, people are greedy. 

popps said:

And, basically, this is the current status of Ultima Online, to my viewing.... Crafting is no longer pretty much a "Profession" and most players have crafting "mules" which they use to support their "main" Fighting characters.

This KILLS Crafting as a "main" gameplay Profession, effectively.

In order to re-store Crafting as a real and complete Profession in Ultima Online, it would be necessary, as I see it, to make crafting a complex and time consuming endeavour big enough for those players mainly enjoying fighting not to want to deal with it (and thus be willing to buy from those players playing Crafting as their "main" occupation in UO) but, STILL, viable and enjoyable for those players who, instead, want to play Crafters as their "Main" occupation in Ultima Online.

Wrong on so many fronts. This will be the last post directed to you because we all know you aren't playing the same UO as everyone else. First and foremost, there is a thing called the artisan festival that is geared directly to crafters. I guess that doesn't count though?

Secondly, players have been using alts to accomplish things since the beginning of UO. By your logic, we shouldn't have tamers on the same account as fighters because we shouldn't be using them to tame mounts (swamp dragons/beetles/hiryus/etc). So why do you have a tamer? We also shouldn't have a mage or bard on a fighter account because we should be fighting all content with one single fighter and if we want to have a bard or mage, then we should be forced to hire them or have them added to our group (instead of switching chars). 

Third... this is Ultima Online, there isn't one single "main" profession. You are trying to argue like a warrior is but how about when he needs repairs? He cannot do it without another character creating repair deeds. Everything is intertwined. A brand new player can't go fight high end content and the loot they will start out with sucks compared to crafted armor so they will surely be better off there until they can go find legendary artifacts. Even when they do start finding artifacts... chances are that they still will need some pieces as crafted until they fill the gaps. I.E. crafting is still relevant. 

I could go on with a fourth/fifth/tenth reason but it doesn't matter because you just want to argue.

I just want to highlight the main thing i saw out of your argument. You literally said you want to make crafting complex & time consuming. This is coming from the exact same person asking a gazillion questions about every topic and acting like this game is just too hard to understand and that it takes too long to do anything. 

I'll leave you with this. The problem isn't about crafting not being a centerpiece in UO. The fundamental problem is that there is no longer the population there used to be on the average shard. This means that there are less people in general doing things at any given time. That means that people have needed to become more self-sufficient. That isn't going to change. So even if crafting became whatever hot mess you are trying to make it; at the end of the day if I can't find someone to make whatever it is I need from a crafter (without spending hours spamming), I'm going to end up doing it on my own crafter. That makes your entire idea null & void because that's what your argument currently is because at the end of the day people don't want to sit around for hours relying on someone else to do something in order for them to play the game. That is how you lose even more subscriptions.

I want my taste identification character to be able to do all of the things other characters can do in this game and if that isn’t possible, I want the devs to change the game so I can. 

dvvid said:

I want my taste identification character to be able to do all of the things other characters can do in this game and if that isn’t possible, I want the devs to change the game so I can. 

Taste id should be useful how can you make potions or cook without it. Make it so it boost EP by 25% and pvpers would find a way to use it have it double cooked items stat boost etc

As in many cases boosting crafting hurts no one yet any changes are bitterly opposed why ?

McDougle said:

As in many cases boosting crafting hurts no one yet any changes are bitterly opposed why ?

You are clearly not reading any posts here.  Posters are telling you why they oppose it, for a third time, why would I kill stuff if I can just craft all my armor?  Which without killing stuff, UO is just a dollhouse game. 

You can not make something hard to get, the power gamers will have a thousand of them in a day. Just like they were getting 300 eggs an hour even tho everyone said they could not find eggs because of Bots.

A pool should me made for this:
How long after NL is live will Popps will write a Novel about so many people are already at max skill and he is barely begun.

But no one who supports this is asking for free or easy simply to have the choice you would still have to kill stuff for ingredients 

popps said:

And, basically, this is the current status of Ultima Online, to my viewing.... Crafting is no longer pretty much a "Profession" and most players have crafting "mules" which they use to support their "main" Fighting characters.

This KILLS Crafting as a "main" gameplay Profession, effectively.

In order to re-store Crafting as a real and complete Profession in Ultima Online, it would be necessary, as I see it, to make crafting a complex and time consuming endeavour big enough for those players mainly enjoying fighting not to want to deal with it (and thus be willing to buy from those players playing Crafting as their "main" occupation in UO) but, STILL, viable and enjoyable for those players who, instead, want to play Crafters as their "Main" occupation in Ultima Online.

Wrong on so many fronts. This will be the last post directed to you because we all know you aren't playing the same UO as everyone else. First and foremost, there is a thing called the artisan festival that is geared directly to crafters. I guess that doesn't count though?

Secondly, players have been using alts to accomplish things since the beginning of UO. By your logic, we shouldn't have tamers on the same account as fighters because we shouldn't be using them to tame mounts (swamp dragons/beetles/hiryus/etc). So why do you have a tamer? We also shouldn't have a mage or bard on a fighter account because we should be fighting all content with one single fighter and if we want to have a bard or mage, then we should be forced to hire them or have them added to our group (instead of switching chars). 

Third... this is Ultima Online, there isn't one single "main" profession. You are trying to argue like a warrior is but how about when he needs repairs? He cannot do it without another character creating repair deeds. Everything is intertwined. A brand new player can't go fight high end content and the loot they will start out with sucks compared to crafted armor so they will surely be better off there until they can go find legendary artifacts. Even when they do start finding artifacts... chances are that they still will need some pieces as crafted until they fill the gaps. I.E. crafting is still relevant. 

I could go on with a fourth/fifth/tenth reason but it doesn't matter because you just want to argue.

I just want to highlight the main thing i saw out of your argument. You literally said you want to make crafting complex & time consuming. This is coming from the exact same person asking a gazillion questions about every topic and acting like this game is just too hard to understand and that it takes too long to do anything. 

I'll leave you with this. The problem isn't about crafting not being a centerpiece in UO. The fundamental problem is that there is no longer the population there used to be on the average shard. This means that there are less people in general doing things at any given time. That means that people have needed to become more self-sufficient. That isn't going to change. So even if crafting became whatever hot mess you are trying to make it; at the end of the day if I can't find someone to make whatever it is I need from a crafter (without spending hours spamming), I'm going to end up doing it on my own crafter. That makes your entire idea null & void because that's what your argument currently is because at the end of the day people don't want to sit around for hours relying on someone else to do something in order for them to play the game. That is how you lose even more subscriptions.

Aside from the fact that the Artisan Festival is only once a Year, personally, I do not think that giving out BODs which any character can get with 0.1 in any Crafting skill really can qualify as serious Crafting gameplay content....

In regards to the 2nd argument which you bring up, as I said, "self-sufficiency", which it is players having characters in both Fighting and Crafting skills, makes it pointless to actually need to use Crafting as a "trade" skill.... guess why ?

Because most players can craft their own stuff for their other characters..... so, Crafting ends being a "Profession" since there is no longer any serious trading coming from it.

On the Third argument that you raise, it goes with my reply to your 2nd argument.... when the Design of the game eventually gets most players to have BOTH Fighting and Crafting characters, players do not need a Crafter "Main" playing player to make them Repair deeds.... they will get their Crafting "mule" and make their own.....
Everything being intertwined ? How so, when the Design of the related game content gets players, eventually, to get both Fighting and Crafting characters under their control ?

Sure, new players might be an exception but ONLY, because they have not yet had the time to BOTH develop a Fighting character AND a Crafting character but, given time, eventually they also will have both types and become self-sufficient in their needs so, I do not see where this "intertwined" is at all.....

I just want to highlight the main thing i saw out of your argument. You literally said you want to make crafting complex & time consuming. This is coming from the exact same person asking a gazillion questions about every topic and acting like this game is just too hard to understand and that it takes too long to do anything. 

Absolutely.

Since Accounts can have 7 characters, and on top of that there is also Endless Journey characters that players can have for free, there is no other realistic way to bring some serious Crafting as a "Main" occupation for those who enjoy this type of gameplay, to my viewing, but to make Crafting seriously complex and time consuming so as to be intimidating  to those players who prefer fighting gameplay and do not want to spend much effort nor much of their in-game time into Crafting BUT, at the same time, such Crafting complexity and time consuming endeavour would not intimidate those players who actually prefer Crafting to Fighting for their Ultima Online in-game experience.

And I also disagree on your last account where you indicate a Low Population to be the reason for the lack of Crafting gameplay... players started making Crafting "Mules" long before UO Population started to dwindle.... some players did it because they gathered the materials with their Fighters and, therefore, thought it as more beneficial to them to "save up" on Crafting costs by making their personal crafting "mules", some other players did it because they did not want to spend time in looking for Crafters to make them items.... whatever the reasons, though, the end result was still the same..... most players becoming self-sufficient and this brought Crafting in UO onto its knees..... no longer viable as an in-game "Main" Profession.....

McDougle said:

But no one who supports this is asking for free or easy simply to have the choice you would still have to kill stuff for ingredients 

So you are not reading Popps Novels?

I prefer the way that UO has worked for 25 years.  You kill this, you can get these.  The way certain things only come from certain encounters makes UO last 25 years.  If we all could get the same items from everything, why would they need to make all the encounters?

I do not like the idea of these ingredients, they should have converted the Doom rewards to the new stuff instead of making us craft them from the old stuff.

Crafting should stay mid game items.

I ignore popps because it's absurd but many realistic good things have been suggested and as I said boosting crafting hurts nobody you can keep doing exactly as you like 

This thread is making me miss the days of yore when hanging out at the Second Defense Armory in Moonglow making and repairing armor and weapons while trading lies with the customers was the norm.

Lord_Frodo said:

WE REALLY NEED LIKE BUTTON   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  

Pawain said:

So you are not reading Popps Novels?

I prefer the way that UO has worked for 25 years.  You kill this, you can get these.  The way certain things only come from certain encounters makes UO last 25 years.  If we all could get the same items from everything, why would they need to make all the encounters?

I do not like the idea of these ingredients, they should have converted the Doom rewards to the new stuff instead of making us craft them from the old stuff.

Crafting should stay mid game items.

Nobody really reads Popps comments unless they're actively looking for an argument. 

Only real artifacts and rolls for the very top end gear should come from killing stuff. 

Your logic is very skewed and also a catch22. For a samp you need decent gear to take on these top end instances to get...a roll at decent gear. I've got half a plat in my samp and haven't even played it. 

You're not the only one that plays this game. Not everyone enjoys bashing crap over and over hours on end. Not everyone has time to do it. We do have new/returning players that just don't have the skill to do the top end questy crap on a stick they've been feeding us to get gear. 

Leaving those players behind for something as basic as competitive stats gorget, gloves or sleeves is just ridiculous sprinkled with d-baggery. 

Crafting needs a major bump. It doesn't have to provide the best of the best but it needs to be competitive. 

Pawain said:

If we all could get the same items from everything, why would they need to make all the encounters?

I donno and maybe i'm wrong but i don't seem to recall you complaining about Blackthorn dungeon providing this very thing?

No I love Blackthorns since it works better with a group.  And I like the glasses version of those items. So having a few repeats is ok.  Especially since they are not the same look. 

There are so many arties there is no way to have them all on one encounter.  You would never get the ones you want.

I like wearing gear and being armed with kit and weapons I craft myself, except when there is no alternative. All loot either goes on a vendor or in the trash can for clean up points.

All of this is a win-more thread...You can literally solo EVERYTHING in this game with just an imbued suit and weapons.  All of these Legendary Artifacts and Artifact drops are just icing on the cake, which are there so you have something to go fight and feel accomplished by getting the drop you want.  I have imbued a suit, solo'd Dreadhorn with that suit, and gotten an Crimson Cincture (eventually), using that very same suit.  Crafting/imbuing is all you need to get started in the endgame, there really isn't a need to do anything more with it at this time.  Also, crafters already make the BiS weapons outside of pvp.  Add splintering to the reforge/imbuing list and watch crafters become the most sought after characters the game has ever seen.

I can do everything in  a journeyman suit this doesn't change the fact that PLAYER made items should be on par with loot  a whole segment of the player base just wants to craft

McDougle said:

I can do everything in  a journeyman suit this doesn't change the fact that PLAYER made items should be on par with loot  a whole segment of the player base just wants to craft

Show me you soloing slasher tonight, 7 pm ok?

So craft? Player made weapons are the best still.  Make slayers, bank plat, win as crafter?  Not sure why this is even a conversation lol.

Craftsman have been in need of a boost for a long time. 

Sarkon said:

So go hunt? Farmed armor will be the best still.  Farm gear, bank plat, win as samp?  Not sure why this is even a conversation lol.

See how easy that can be flipped around and still be 100% true. 

This isn't a crafter vs hunter thread so stop trying to make it that way 

Do you and let those of us that don't enjoy the grind do us. 

Sarkon said:

So craft? Player made weapons are the best still.  Make slayers, bank plat, win as crafter?  Not sure why this is even a conversation lol.

What attributes imbued on slayer weapons do you think are wanted by buyers and what should they sell for? I look at paperdolls regularly to inspect the weapons they are carrying, like double axes, but when I craft them, sales are mediocre.

Ben said:

Sarkon said:

So craft? Player made weapons are the best still.  Make slayers, bank plat, win as crafter?  Not sure why this is even a conversation lol.

What attributes imbued on slayer weapons do you think are wanted by buyers and what should they sell for? I look at paperdolls regularly to inspect the weapons they are carrying, like double axes, but when I craft them, sales are mediocre.

They just want them to be 100% elemental damage.  They want to choose what to imbue. I'd pay 5M per weapon like that.  But I don't need any right now.

Ben said

Sarkon said:

So craft? Player made weapons are the best still.  Make slayers, bank plat, win as crafter?  Not sure why this is even a conversation lol.

What attributes imbued on slayer weapons do you think are wanted by buyers and what should they sell for? I look at paperdolls regularly to inspect the weapons they are carrying, like double axes, but when I craft them, sales are mediocre.

It's become extremely specific the exact elemental damage for the target 

Pawain said:

Ben said:

Sarkon said:

So craft? Player made weapons are the best still.  Make slayers, bank plat, win as crafter?  Not sure why this is even a conversation lol.

What attributes imbued on slayer weapons do you think are wanted by buyers and what should they sell for? I look at paperdolls regularly to inspect the weapons they are carrying, like double axes, but when I craft them, sales are mediocre.

They just want them to be 100% elemental damage.  They want to choose what to imbue. I'd pay 5M per weapon like that.  But I don't need any right now.

Whoa! Elemental weapons that are not imbued yet will sell well? I did wonder why my full set of elementals that were not imbued went so quickly, but then again, I sold them all cheaply. I have a load of radiant scimitars, double axes and bladed staffs in each of the elements which I crafted over time and was waiting for a rainy day to imbue as needed. You are telling me these will sell? They all have my maker's mark of Ghost of Gramps on them. Will that make a difference?

Ben said:

Pawain said:

Ben said:

Sarkon said:

So craft? Player made weapons are the best still.  Make slayers, bank plat, win as crafter?  Not sure why this is even a conversation lol.

What attributes imbued on slayer weapons do you think are wanted by buyers and what should they sell for? I look at paperdolls regularly to inspect the weapons they are carrying, like double axes, but when I craft them, sales are mediocre.

They just want them to be 100% elemental damage.  They want to choose what to imbue. I'd pay 5M per weapon like that.  But I don't need any right now.

Whoa! Elemental weapons that are not imbued yet will sell well? I did wonder why my full set of elementals that were not imbued went so quickly, but then again, I sold them all cheaply. I have a load of radiant scimitars, double axes and bladed staffs in each of the elements which I crafted over time and was waiting for a rainy day to imbue as needed. You are telling me these will sell? They all have my maker's mark of Ghost of Gramps on them. Will that make a difference?

Yup that's why.  The 100% elemental damage is a pain to make.  

Then players imbue the things they want for the specific character.

I'd pay 5M each for a Fire and Energy War Hammer.  If you are on a shard I can get to, must have that name!