Multiboxing rampage with Paid accts is now SAFE

Obviously multiboxing is no longer a BAN-able action in this game WHEN you use Paid accounts.

Paid account + Multiboxing + AFK -- No Problem (At best effort the GM will only make the toons stuck.)

Paid account + Multiboxing + Attended -- No Problem

People are now scripting Shadowguard with TEN accounts and also running Trader Quests for pink scrolls. If you wait at these areas you will find scripters.

Let the script party begin. Long Live UO!

“I know someone who has been doing this since the multi drop exploit (now fixed)
but what you have pictured is not multiboxing unless all the chars do the same thing.
you’re allowed to invite other paid accounts into the encounter so long as you control them individually, most of the chars will stand there and do nothing. 

Scripting (defined here as the use of an unapproved third party program to automate certain game functions at an advanced level) has been legal in effect, if not on paper, for a long time. Whether or not this particular post portrays that behavior though is not something I can answer.

How do you know these aren't EJ accounts?  EJ can do the roof, and get drops (AFAIK), as long as they have the Time of Legends add-in.   (would be better if players could see an "EJ" tag above EJ player accounts).

That add-in is also needed to equip the drops from the roof too.  (some may say this is pay-to-win using unpaid accounts).

Not like the developers should update the list of approved third party programs 

Meh, I say let them multi-box whatever they want to.  All that does is keep the market flowing with items I can buy with the plat that is coming out of my face holes.  If someone wants to play 10 characters at at time, it isn't taking food off my table.  If you think it is taking food off yours, you should find another table.

Sarkon said:

Meh, I say let them multi-box whatever they want to.  All that does is keep the market flowing with items I can buy with the plat that is coming out of my face holes.  If someone wants to play 10 characters at at time, it isn't taking food off my table.  If you think it is taking food off yours, you should find another table.

JohnKnighthawke said:

ForeverFun said:

How do you know these aren't EJ accounts?  EJ can do the roof, and get drops (AFAIK), as long as they have the Time of Legends add-in.   (would be better if players could see an "EJ" tag above EJ player accounts).

That add-in is also needed to equip the drops from the roof too.  (some may say this is pay-to-win using unpaid accounts).

Unless I'm missing something, the concern (definitely my own concern and I think the OP's as well) isn't the nature of the accounts but the way they're (likely) being controlled by one player using scripting programs.

Put yourself in the shoes of the people allegedly playing 10 accounts for a second.  Why would they use 10 paid accounts for the activities that people are complaining about?  Why not do that largely for free?

If you look at the egg collecting that was happening in the last event, it's more likely than not most eggs were collected using unpaid EJ accounts, and most done in an automated manner.  With that approach, you can run unlimited EJ accounts across unlimited shards concurrently.  Unless I've overlooked something in this thought experiment?

Part of the root cause here is things are designed to be a time consuming grind.  If there is a short-cut, nature/people will find a way.

ForeverFun said:Put yourself in the shoes of the people allegedly playing 10 accounts for a second.  Why would they use 10 paid accounts for the activities that people are complaining about?  Why not do that largely for free?

If you look at the egg collecting that was happening in the last event, it's more likely than not most eggs were collected using unpaid EJ accounts, and most done in an automated manner.  With that approach, you can run unlimited EJ accounts across unlimited shards concurrently.  Unless I've overlooked something in this thought experiment?

Part of the root cause here is things are designed to be a time consuming grind.  If there is a short-cut, nature/people will find a way.

I, for one, don't care if the accounts are paid for or not. The UO team probably does for business reasons but I do not. The issue for me is the cheating.

Am I the only one who finds the real problem with this type of mass client use to be the lack of creativity in character design? I mean really, all 10 are female elves with blond hair and boring, identical, outfits.

How...blasé.

If you're going to run 10 accounts, at least put some effort into character development, backstory, and style.

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Am I the only one who finds the real problem with this type of mass client use to be the lack of creativity in character design? I mean really, all 10 are female elves with blond hair and boring, identical, outfits.

How...blasé.

If you're going to run 10 accounts, at least put some effort into character development, backstory, and style.

Folks like that don't value things like that any more than they value following the rules.

JohnKnighthawke said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Am I the only one who finds the real problem with this type of mass client use to be the lack of creativity in character design? I mean really, all 10 are female elves with blond hair and boring, identical, outfits.

How...blasé.

If you're going to run 10 accounts, at least put some effort into character development, backstory, and style.

Folks like that don't value things like that any more than they value following the rules.

They dress alike and all with top end gear ..

Sarkon said:

Meh, I say let them multi-box whatever they want to.  All that does is keep the market flowing with items I can buy with the plat that is coming out of my face holes.  If someone wants to play 10 characters at at time, it isn't taking food off my table.  If you think it is taking food off yours, you should find another table.

Oh yes, it sure does take food off other players' table, to my opinion....

And why it does it ?

Because players multiboxing and scripting 24/7, can get items way, but waaaaaay more often and more easily as compared to players who, instead, just play their account and do not multibox nor script....

And what does this mean ?

To my opinion, this means that the Cameos that the multiboxing/scripting players get, can then be priced way, but way less as compared to the Cameos of all those players who only play 1 account and neither multibox nor script....

That's called, to my understanding, underselling and it effectively drives players who cannot compete (because they only play 1 account and do not multibox nor script), out of the market because it is no longer worth to them and their in game time, to try match or beat whatever prices the multiboxers and scripters price their high end items at....

Eventually, players not multiboxing nor scripting, no longer being able to get any significant advantage from the items that they eventually get, with lots and lots and LOTS of effort and time invested, as compared to the easiness of how multiboxers and scripters get their  high end item, might loose interest in playing that content and, possibly UO althougether....

So, yes, oh yes, to my opinion, multiboxers and scripters DO take food off the table of players who do not multibox nor script.... it makes playing the game for them, pointless, no longer interesting.

And Ultima Online, eventually, gets hurt for further loss of players base.

Yet, and I really do not understand this, multiboxing and scripting is still not stopped for good in UO.... I really cannot understand why the Developers do not stop it for good.

No it doesn't take food off other players for Shadowguard case because everyone has their private encounter.

However, it does affect other players in "open" area such as the Yukio event.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/8583/how-to-report-multi-boxing#latest

The issue is that you don't have proof for Shadowguard because u can't take a screen like I did.

This is not the first time we knew about this but if u suspect they wear costumes equate to MB then report GM let him observe them inside SG.

And, there is NO need to waste time to cover up their character names in screenshots.

See my forum post in the link above.

Case closed.

Some here have indicated the GM's just ask questions.  Undoubtedly, any person with 10 characters in the roof may be in a good position to respond.

The crux of the "why don't they do something about it" really boils down to likely possible answers:

1. They technically cannot.  e.g. the technical ability to accurately detect..  the amount of staff they have do address this, number of hours in a day, etc.  (look at the bug backlog!!)
2. They don't want to enforce from a policy perspective.  e.g. there may be non-technical complexities, like how to address disputes, etc.
3. They don't want to address this, it's just entrenched into the game.

If you look at *why* this is happening, it probably boils down to 2 things:

1. People are somehow making money doing this.
2. People are wanting to save time, reduce the game grind, etc.

So if some change is to be made here, it really needs to be targeted at the "why".

If it's financial, you change the equation.  I do suspect most of what we're talking about here originates from EJ. as anybody in this for the money is carefully managing the tradeoff with number of paid accounts.

If it's the time/grind factor, many suggestions have already been made to improve this from the legitimate player perspective. Make it less grindy.  Give us a pass to do the roof any number of times in say an 8 hour window, without the grind of rekeying the rooms every time.  etc etc etc.

Or just sell EVERYTHING  RMT sellers do for less in the uo store..

I saw GM does continue to ban unattended macroing. 

I saw GM does not replace my lost pets.

I saw GM who fixed my defective sachels.

What I can't see I don't need to speculate unless there is solid evidence - no words required - pictures or video tell the story. Then send them the evidence. 

BTW just in case my original post wasn't clear enough: Scripters are running AFK Shadowguard 100%. That's right. AFK Shadowguard, from room to room to boss, repeat, UNATTENDED. I watched them on different shards, always same rails. I paged GM several times for days. NOTHING.

Why would anyone want to play a game that requires you play with multiple windows open playing the same game ? 

Radst said:

This forum surely has many trolls who will never believe in anything even videos wont do. So why bother saying anything at all.

BTW just in case my original post wasn't clear enough: Scripters are running AFK Shadowguard 100%. That's right. AFK Shadowguard, from room to room to boss, repeat, UNATTENDED. I watched them on different shards, always same rails. I paged GM several times for days. NOTHING.

You would have to be one of the cheaters IF you are trying to cover this up by posting nonsense here.

How do you know they are unattended?
How do you know the GM's are doing nothing?  See above, the player(s) may be responding to the GMs.

Maybe it's some sweatshop somewhere, and situation #1 above applies "People are somehow making money doing this."

I don't see anyone covering up anything, as if the GM bother to read this forum at all. 

The only "police" reading this forum actively are the forum mods.

This isn't the place to complain. We are already complaining for the lack of response from the team. There is still none.

Seth said:

No it doesn't take food off other players for Shadowguard case because everyone has their private encounter.

However, it does affect other players in "open" area such as the Yukio event.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/8583/how-to-report-multi-boxing#latest

The issue is that you don't have proof for Shadowguard because u can't take a screen like I did.

This is not the first time we knew about this but if u suspect they wear costumes equate to MB then report GM let him observe them inside SG.

And, there is NO need to waste time to cover up their character names in screenshots.

See my forum post in the link above.

Case closed.

No it doesn't take food off other players for Shadowguard case because everyone has their private encounter.

I must have not been able to explain myself well enough....

The damage that multiboxers and scripters do to other players, is NOT that they occupy a spawn, for example Shadowguard, preventing other players to do it because, as you point it out, they are private encounters so, all players can have their encounter (although, I think, there does is a limited number of rooms, they are not infinite...).

My argument is another, the hurting of other players comes from multiboxers and scripters (especially if AFK), being able to get high end items, for example Cameos, with a whole lot, a WHOLE LOT less effort as players who, instead, do it without multiboxing, without scripting and using their own time sat at the keyboard....

This enables players multiboxing and scripting, and especially those also AFKing, to undersell all other players who do not multibox and do not script (not to mention do not AFK...).

Eventuallly, players who do not multibox, do not script and do not AFK will realize how the effort and time that they need to put into getting their  high end items is way, but WAY higher as that of multiboxers, scripters and possibly AFKers and there is no way that they can price their high end items as low as multiboxers, scripters and AFKers do....

And at that point these players might realize that, if they cannot match/beat the pricing of multiboxers, scripters and possibly AFKers who are underselling them because they are getting their high end items much more easily and perhaps without investing much of their time in the game, what is then the point for them to continue playing if pretty much all content that is worth playing is monopolized by mutiboxers, scripters and perhaps also AFKers...

And a number of these players not multiboxing, not scripting and not AFKing could then decide to stop playing the game, no longer seeing for them the point of playing it since they cannot compete with multiboxers, scripters and AFKers...

And the game further keeps losing players' base...

THIS, is my argument about how multiboxers, scripters and possibly AFKers hurt all other players and, in the end, the entire game....

ForeverFun said:

Some here have indicated the GM's just ask questions.  Undoubtedly, any person with 10 characters in the roof may be in a good position to respond.

The crux of the "why don't they do something about it" really boils down to likely possible answers:

1. They technically cannot.  e.g. the technical ability to accurately detect..  the amount of staff they have do address this, number of hours in a day, etc.  (look at the bug backlog!!)
2. They don't want to enforce from a policy perspective.  e.g. there may be non-technical complexities, like how to address disputes, etc.
3. They don't want to address this, it's just entrenched into the game.

If you look at *why* this is happening, it probably boils down to 2 things:

1. People are somehow making money doing this.
2. People are wanting to save time, reduce the game grind, etc.

So if some change is to be made here, it really needs to be targeted at the "why".

If it's financial, you change the equation.  I do suspect most of what we're talking about here originates from EJ. as anybody in this for the money is carefully managing the tradeoff with number of paid accounts.

If it's the time/grind factor, many suggestions have already been made to improve this from the legitimate player perspective. Make it less grindy.  Give us a pass to do the roof any number of times in say an 8 hour window, without the grind of rekeying the rooms every time.  etc etc etc.

If you look at *why* this is happening, it probably boils down to 2 things:People are somehow making money doing this.People are wanting to save time, reduce the game grind, etc.

I do agree that the "why" should be the issue to be focused at, to prevent this to happen...

Although, more then players who do it to save time, I suspect that the ones most into this are those who do it, eventually, to sell those high end items for UO Gold and then sell Platinums for real money....

If there was no sale of UO Gold for real money, I think that most of this in-game behaviour would dissolve for lack of reasons to do it... sure, there would still be the occasional players who multibox and script, perhaps AFK, to get high end items easier and with much less investment of their in game time but, I am of the opinion that real money trades are the main reason for this behaviour happening in the game....

Now, could the Developers address it ?

Well, of course the Developers cannot, or would have a really hard time to track down real money trades which take places outside of the game which they have no control on BUT, they can sure monitor accounts with tons of Platinums in the game, lots and lots of high end items in the game, periodically transferring Platinums to other accounts with different IP address clearly not located at their location etc. etc.

What I am trying to say is, that, to my opinion, the Developers "could" have a number of ways to monitor AND sanction these activities in the game in order to fight them and eradicate them from the game....

McDougle said:

Or just sell EVERYTHING  RMT sellers do for less in the uo store..

This could be another possibility.... but it would then need to be pretty much all high end items.... houses etc. etc.

Sure, UO would make more revenues and RMTers would get defeated but then, wouldn't it become a "pay to win" game, I wonder?

Skett said:

Why would anyone want to play a game that requires you play with multiple windows open playing the same game ? 

It is simple.... to get high end in game items easily and with little to no investment of one's own time, to then sell Platinum of in game gold for real money....

Isn't it quite a good reason to motivate a good number of people to multibox, script and possible AFK it in Ultima Online ?

Making real money with little to no effort ?

Seth said:

I don't see anyone covering up anything, as if the GM bother to read this forum at all. 

The only "police" reading this forum actively are the forum mods.

This isn't the place to complain. We are already complaining for the lack of response from the team. There is still none.

What? That's crazy talk... a Dev responded (once) to one of the threads like 2 weeks ago. That's a 100% increase (albeit from zero) on the number of responses we've received over the previous 3 months. Count your blessings! 

 😂 

So... been avoiding these topics because I know 9/10 of you are full of complete donkey crap but ... since this keeps getting brought up here goes.  So the last event was pretty extreme with how difficult it was, especially after they moved the spawn in to the dragon pit where the greater dragon paragons would come up.  A guy I know who uses scripts and programs gets on and complains because people are using a little "extra help" to handle the spawn.  So I call him out in chat. I ask him what program his guild uses to ghost cam champ spawns, or what programs they use to have perfect casting times.  Because I know the answers.  I didn't in 2020 when I first came back but I do now and I think it's hypocritical of this person to complain when I know the only reason he's complaining is he doesn't know how to write his own scripts.  He'd be right there with those guys if he knew how to be.  And what I'm saying is 9/10 people complaining here I lump you in the same boat.  And deny it, call me a liar.  I don't care.  I just don't give a crap.  I came back in 2020 I used classic client on a new pc for about 6 months and it was just unplayable.  The frame rate is horrible on new computers.  So I switched to EC and that was buggy as all heck but it was better and I could run 3 toons at once with the macros on EC pretty handily and things got better but I still wasn't on the level of these guys, and these guys accounts for probably more then half, if not 2/3rds off the player base.  So my answer to all of this is, if you want to police it then fix it.  Don't ban everyone, fix it.  Fix it for everyone in every way and if you can't do that leave it alone and do what you're doing which is why I think they aren't policing it.  If this guy's really AFK that's breaking the rules and a GM will bring him/her to jail.  But how do you know it's not a single guild of 10 individual players?  Because to be fair you don't.  You aren't in the rooms with them.  Only the GM's know and it goes back to Bonnie and her team to decide how they want to handle this.  But I would challenge the first person in this thread that's never used a third party program to GM a skill to throw the first stone.  There might be one or two of you, but I wouldn't be suprised if that's not even the case.    /rant

popps said:

Seth said:

No it doesn't take food off other players for Shadowguard case because everyone has their private encounter.

However, it does affect other players in "open" area such as the Yukio event.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/8583/how-to-report-multi-boxing#latest

The issue is that you don't have proof for Shadowguard because u can't take a screen like I did.

This is not the first time we knew about this but if u suspect they wear costumes equate to MB then report GM let him observe them inside SG.

And, there is NO need to waste time to cover up their character names in screenshots.

See my forum post in the link above.

Case closed.

No it doesn't take food off other players for Shadowguard case because everyone has their private encounter.

I must have not been able to explain myself well enough....

The damage that multiboxers and scripters do to other players, is NOT that they occupy a spawn, for example Shadowguard, preventing other players to do it because, as you point it out, they are private encounters so, all players can have their encounter (although, I think, there does is a limited number of rooms, they are not infinite...).

My argument is another, the hurting of other players comes from multiboxers and scripters (especially if AFK), being able to get high end items, for example Cameos, with a whole lot, a WHOLE LOT less effort as players who, instead, do it without multiboxing, without scripting and using their own time sat at the keyboard....

This enables players multiboxing and scripting, and especially those also AFKing, to undersell all other players who do not multibox and do not script (not to mention do not AFK...).

Eventuallly, players who do not multibox, do not script and do not AFK will realize how the effort and time that they need to put into getting their  high end items is way, but WAY higher as that of multiboxers, scripters and possibly AFKers and there is no way that they can price their high end items as low as multiboxers, scripters and AFKers do....

And at that point these players might realize that, if they cannot match/beat the pricing of multiboxers, scripters and possibly AFKers who are underselling them because they are getting their high end items much more easily and perhaps without investing much of their time in the game, what is then the point for them to continue playing if pretty much all content that is worth playing is monopolized by mutiboxers, scripters and perhaps also AFKers...

And a number of these players not multiboxing, not scripting and not AFKing could then decide to stop playing the game, no longer seeing for them the point of playing it since they cannot compete with multiboxers, scripters and AFKers...

And the game further keeps losing players' base...

THIS, is my argument about how multiboxers, scripters and possibly AFKers hurt all other players and, in the end, the entire game....

I think if the game is losing players (which I've seen no evidence of lately) it would be because the new server hasn't come out yet and classic client is really terrible with new hardware.  You have a team with maybe 1 or 2 developers trying to manage a major expansion and two clients.  It just doesn't work.  The math doesn't add up.  I would argue it has nothing to with any of the issues you are listing at least at this point.  And even 20 years ago when I quit and everyone quit the reason we left was age of shadows.  It had nothing to do with the intervention of third party scripting and programming because none of us cared about any of that at the time.  We just wanted to PVP and play with our guilds.  And at that point in time it wasn't broken yet.  IMO if they dropped the new server and focused their energy on fixing the classic client, make the frame rate playable again, add the ability to expand the playing window, add a gridded container and modern macros and debugged EC, did a few more events and just focused on cleaning up the code they'd be better off then anything they are doing.  That's my opinion.  I could be wrong but that's what I think.

There are a few good lessons to be learned from the destard event.

1. People like far more spawn density.  Less time involved in getting the drops, more action.  (first few days of event).
2. People are likely mis-using EJ accounts to automatically farm drops/drop equivalents (eggs).
3. Driving down the drop rate later in the event annoys the player base.  Join the event late, so sorry !

#1 relates to the point made earlier "People are wanting to save time, reduce the game grind, etc.".  Another side effect of this is that for the average player, they are likely consuming less Amazon web services compute and network bill for EA/broadsword.

ForeverFun said:

There are a few good lessons to be learned from the destard event.

1. People like far more spawn density.  Less time involved in getting the drops, more action.  (first few days of event).
2. People are likely mis-using EJ accounts to automatically farm drops/drop equivalents (eggs).
3. Driving down the drop rate later in the event annoys the player base.  Join the event late, so sorry !

#1 relates to the point made earlier "People are wanting to save time, reduce the game grind, etc.".  Another side effect of this is that for the average player, they are likely consuming less Amazon web services compute and network bill for EA/broadsword.

I think people would enjoy "playing" an event that's playable.  But nobody is taking a greater dragon paragon down with one char.  It's just not happening so if you are the only one in that dungeon might as well go find some eggs.  They got it right with Deceit.  Maybe even Fire to an extent.  Make it like that but increase the spawn rate a bit to be more like hythloth.  But keep the upper level monsters to specific areas of the dungeon instead of being all over because a few guys can't kill a paragon balron or greater dragon.  It's just not doable.  It's a really big ask.  Poison elementals and Lich lords are doable.  Or they can keep it the way it is and people will adjust.  I mean honestly it's just like real life.  People adjust.

"Fixing the following bug(minor exploit) that the devs have confirmed *may make this encounter more difficult to rail
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1883/shadowguard-orchard

*it may not
"

Yoshi said:

"Fixing the following bug(minor exploit) that the devs have confirmed *may make this encounter more difficult to rail
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1883/shadowguard-orchard

*it may not
"

You are joking?  Those tree fellows are a joke.
If the fountain and roof are no problem, attacking tree fellows are no problem.

What you're suggesting sounds like increasing the grind factor in the game (for legit players), not decreasing it.

@popps, you wrote:
My argument is another, the hurting of other players comes from multiboxers and scripters (especially if AFK), being able to get high end items, for example Cameos, with a whole lot, a WHOLE LOT less effort as players who, instead, do it without multiboxing, without scripting and using their own time sat at the keyboard....

--- 
So its alot easier to get and so i assumed your concern is alot of ppl doing this?

Supply increases competition and prices will drop. But I saw Cameo started at 150-175m say 7 years ago and then progressed to the Auction Box with prices up to 300m. I don't know how much they cost now but since every Tom Dick and Harry is farming AFK Multiboxing 24/7 the price must be 1 full set of Cameos for 10k gold only.

The other day someone checked their AFK account that MB for 3 months and and have like 10000 Cameos. Wow.

Assuming you are being sarcastic? 

Cameo's (on ATL) have only increased in price. Maybe 3-4 years ago you could get an undead / arachnid cameo for like 175m (which were the cheapest ones) but over the last few weeks I've seen those same slayer types selling for 250m. The reptile cameo's were priced at 600-650m during the Destard event lol.

There just isn't a (much) better tali for warriors. The +20 anatomy tali was a nice twist/option for warriors but aside from that there isn't anything else out there good enough not to use a cameo. If they were to add a tali that was like a cameo but instead of SSI it had +15 skills (kind of like soldier's medal but +15 tactics/parry) then the price might fall given there would be other options people would want instead.

Radst said:

Obviously multiboxing is no longer a BAN-able action in this game WHEN you use Paid accounts.

Paid account + Multiboxing + AFK -- No Problem (At best effort the GM will only make the toons stuck.)

Paid account + Multiboxing + Attended -- No Problem

This was NOT possible at least one year ago.

People are now scripting Shadowguard with TEN accounts and also running Trader Quests for pink scrolls. If you wait at these areas you will find scripters.

Let the script party begin. Long Live UO!

Bro, where in the f have you been? I've posted about this numerous times, last time over a year ago. Gave up because people on this forum can't imagine that shadowguard is being botted 24/7. Also, they're likely EJ because: EJ's were a mistake.

Last time I mentioned it April '21. https://forum.uo.com/discussion/6895/shadowguard-and-doom-being-endlessly-scripted/p1

PM me the shard(s) and I'll make sure they're reported on with quite the frequency.

keven2002 said:

Assuming you are being sarcastic? 

Cameo's (on ATL) have only increased in price. Maybe 3-4 years ago you could get an undead / arachnid cameo for like 175m (which were the cheapest ones) but over the last few weeks I've seen those same slayer types selling for 250m. The reptile cameo's were priced at 600-650m during the Destard event lol.

There just isn't a (much) better tali for warriors. The +20 anatomy tali was a nice twist/option for warriors but aside from that there isn't anything else out there good enough not to use a cameo. If they were to add a tali that was like a cameo but instead of SSI it had +15 skills (kind of like soldier's medal but +15 tactics/parry) then the price might fall given there would be other options people would want instead.

Obviously supply and demand matter not in UO any cameos collected by bots go right to RMT sites not on vendors we have a low population most of us have everything we need so realistically the "market " is the rare returning player or even rarer new player. Again the best method to combat this is to have everything available in the uo store cheaper than RMT sellers 

This isn't a new problem.

The real problem is Broadsword not responding at all.

Why are we quarreling among ourselves. Everyone that post here is a paying customer.

Seth said:

This isn't a new problem.

The real problem is Broadsword not responding at all.

Why are we quarreling among ourselves. Everyone that post here is a paying customer.

Now now expecting communication makes us whiny malcontents the developers are obviously very busy with great things 

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Arnold7 said:

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Games made in the 90s were like this.  In Diablo you could use a packet sniffer to see what reward you were about to get from Wert, so you would cancel and get a fresh choice.

That's why much of UO is not set until you click it.  Like a Triton, it is not created until you open it.  That way you cant go to TC and see what that statue would make.

All they are doing is pushing buttons and sending the same code the game does.  EC was made as a modifiable UI. 

IMO its not UOs fault its the players who want to beat the system.  I guess they would cheat when playing Sorry.

Its not just UO:

Pawain said:

Arnold7 said:

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Games made in the 90s were like this.  In Diablo you could use a packet sniffer to see what reward you were about to get from Wert, so you would cancel and get a fresh choice.

That's why much of UO is not set until you click it.  Like a Triton, it is not created until you open it.  That way you cant go to TC and see what that statue would make.

All they are doing is pushing buttons and sending the same code the game does.  EC was made as a modifiable UI. 

IMO its not UOs fault its the players who want to beat the system.  I guess they would cheat when playing Sorry.

Its not just UO:

What percentage of gamers use cheats?

Plitch's study showed that 57% of gamers polled said that they had used cheats before, and 37% of respondents said that they exclusively used cheats in single-player games to enhance their experience.Jun 30, 2022

Arnold7 said:

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Way back when UO provided an offline UO on one of the UO Online expansions and it was the same program so basically they released the code by mistake.

JohnKnighthawke said:

Pawain said:

Arnold7 said:

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Games made in the 90s were like this.  In Diablo you could use a packet sniffer to see what reward you were about to get from Wert, so you would cancel and get a fresh choice.

That's why much of UO is not set until you click it.  Like a Triton, it is not created until you open it.  That way you cant go to TC and see what that statue would make.

All they are doing is pushing buttons and sending the same code the game does.  EC was made as a modifiable UI. 

IMO its not UOs fault its the players who want to beat the system.  I guess they would cheat when playing Sorry.

Its not just UO:

What percentage of gamers use cheats?

Plitch's study showed that 57% of gamers polled said that they had used cheats before, and 37% of respondents said that they exclusively used cheats in single-player games to enhance their experience.Jun 30, 2022

I'd never heard of "Plitch" before.

"PLITCH is a 'Made in Germany', intuitive, all-in-one trainer software that activates  46,600+ cheats in  3,500+ PC games via our dedicated desktop Client or companion apps."

Source: https://www.plitch.com/en/howitworks

Given what their software does, essentially cheats, I'm forced to wonder if they have an incentive to exaggerate how many players cheat.

 😂  I only did a search for how many players cheat in games.

Here is one from another site:
 

What percentage of developers are absentee like UO.  we can't even get the list of approved programs updated how would people know if they're cheating??

JohnKnighthawke said:

Pawain said:

Arnold7 said:

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Games made in the 90s were like this.  In Diablo you could use a packet sniffer to see what reward you were about to get from Wert, so you would cancel and get a fresh choice.

That's why much of UO is not set until you click it.  Like a Triton, it is not created until you open it.  That way you cant go to TC and see what that statue would make.

All they are doing is pushing buttons and sending the same code the game does.  EC was made as a modifiable UI. 

IMO its not UOs fault its the players who want to beat the system.  I guess they would cheat when playing Sorry.

Its not just UO:

What percentage of gamers use cheats?

Plitch's study showed that 57% of gamers polled said that they had used cheats before, and 37% of respondents said that they exclusively used cheats in single-player games to enhance their experience.Jun 30, 2022

I'd never heard of "Plitch" before.

"PLITCH is a 'Made in Germany', intuitive, all-in-one trainer software that activates  46,600+ cheats in  3,500+ PC games via our dedicated desktop Client or companion apps."

Source: https://www.plitch.com/en/howitworks

Given what their software does, essentially cheats, I'm forced to wonder if they have an incentive to exaggerate how many players cheat.

Meh, I hate cheats..... I think it takes the fun out of playing the game.... 

Pawain said:

JohnKnighthawke said:

Pawain said:

Arnold7 said:

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Games made in the 90s were like this.  In Diablo you could use a packet sniffer to see what reward you were about to get from Wert, so you would cancel and get a fresh choice.

That's why much of UO is not set until you click it.  Like a Triton, it is not created until you open it.  That way you cant go to TC and see what that statue would make.

All they are doing is pushing buttons and sending the same code the game does.  EC was made as a modifiable UI. 

IMO its not UOs fault its the players who want to beat the system.  I guess they would cheat when playing Sorry.

Its not just UO:

What percentage of gamers use cheats?

Plitch's study showed that 57% of gamers polled said that they had used cheats before, and 37% of respondents said that they exclusively used cheats in single-player games to enhance their experience.Jun 30, 2022

I'd never heard of "Plitch" before.

"PLITCH is a 'Made in Germany', intuitive, all-in-one trainer software that activates  46,600+ cheats in  3,500+ PC games via our dedicated desktop Client or companion apps."

Source: https://www.plitch.com/en/howitworks

Given what their software does, essentially cheats, I'm forced to wonder if they have an incentive to exaggerate how many players cheat.

 😂  I only did a search for how many players cheat in games.

Here is one from another site:

What percentage of people cheat in games?

Whether socially accepted, tolerated, or induced, cheating behavior is now massive, according to the survey. A total of 37% of gamers confessed to cheating (3% "always", 9% "often", 13% "sometimes", and 12% "rarely").Apr 30, 2018

Report: Cheating Is Becoming A Big Problem In Online Gaming

https://www.forbes.com › nelsongranados › 2018/04/30

I Doubt UO is the only game that has cheating, that was Arnolds comment.

 

Personally, I think that there should be a different approach to dealing with cheating in games...

First, it should be necessary to find "why" players cheat in a game and then, the Design of games should be such that players would then have not those reasons which could make them want to cheat....

For example, if some players were to cheat to then do real money trades, make those real money trades not possible, illegal, sanctionable...this way players would not have the reason to cheat, if they could not get any monetary advantage from their cheating in the game...

Or, just another example, some other players might perhaps want to cheat in order to win in combat or in PvP ? Well, Design the game in a way that players using cheats would actually get "debuffs" and have a higher likeliness to "loose " an in game fight, rather then win it....

Basically, deal with the "why" players might want to cheat in a game so that they would no longer have any reason to use cheats in a game....

At least, that is my opinion about it.

Ya just give all items on a clicky and everyone will have everything and then the game will close soon after.

Pawain said:

Ya just give all items on a clicky and everyone will have everything and then the game will close soon after.

naaaa, it'll keep going because someone (me) will start a rumor that on a random click after your 1,000,000 click, you will get an uber rare item in 1 of 20 uber rare colors.   

😂  

“I need some people to cheat to increase the difficulty level, I am still killing people 1v1 who are using faster clients with all the scripts. 

Arnold7 said:

Do not really understand why Broadsword makes UO’s program code so accessible to other programers.  Is the program’s code so old that it can’t be protected?  Have never played a game like this one that actually invites other programmers to write code that interacts with the game’s proprietary coding?  Can’t really see that any other game providers would allow this kind of activity.  Does anyone know the answer to this question?

Legend has it when games were on physical cds the code was accidently loaded on a select number of them distributed in Europe(?). 

From there, professional programmers were able to create the "easy" button for scripts and also reverse engineer the whole game to create all these free shards. 

When the devs decided to move from California to Virginia the original code was supposedly lost. With all the free shards out, the original code is obviously pretty easy to get online somewhere. 

I believe they would have to create a brand new game from scratch to really stop anything at this point. As long as we keep giving this version a profit nothing will ever happen.

(By all means, correct me if i'm wrong)

Now lets talk about Trader Quest. THIS quest needs to be cancelled NOW. It has only been scripters heaven since day1. Just look at Vendor Search and those discord channels. Unlimited supplies are popping up everywhere.

Finally, SOCIAL MEDIA.

Their current stance is: "Oh we cannot effort to ban even the worst kind of cheaters because we need to keep more paying customers". This "logic" is so wrong, so twisted.

To compare and contrast:

1. Running the roof can be done with EJ accounts, with time of legends expansion.
2. Running trader quests requires paid accounts, I believe.

So nothing stops somebody from running the roof and trader quests at the same time, with a mixture of accounts, if they have that capability.

The trader quests themselves are IMHO incredibly grindy, fitting my category "People are wanting to save time, reduce the game grind, etc.".  I can usually only do the holiday krampus event for one or two nights.

SOTs/pinks -- probably the most valuable SOT is the taming SOT.  That's probably because it's a hell of a grind to raise taming.

There a rare drop, something like 1/10000 odds that can come from the trader quest?  Let's assume you can run that in 4 minutes per quest.  That's equivalent to working an 8 hour shift for 83 days, if you get it to drop after 10,000 runs, and you don't die of boredom doing so.  (or $9,960.00 assuming $15/hour labor rate).

Just turning off the trader quest seems like a strange thing to do.

ForeverFun said:

To compare and contrast:

1. Running the roof can be done with EJ accounts, with time of legends expansion.
2. Running trader quests requires paid accounts, I believe.

So nothing stops somebody from running the roof and trader quests at the same time, with a mixture of accounts, if they have that capability.

The trader quests themselves are IMHO incredibly grindy, fitting my category "People are wanting to save time, reduce the game grind, etc.".  I can usually only do the holiday krampus event for one or two nights.

SOTs/pinks -- probably the most valuable SOT is the taming SOT.  That's probably because it's a hell of a grind to raise taming.

There a rare drop, something like 1/10000 odds that can come from the trader quest?  Let's assume you can run that in 4 minutes per quest.  That's equivalent to working an 8 hour shift for 83 days, if you get it to drop after 10,000 runs, and you don't die of boredom doing so.  (or $9,960.00 assuming $15/hour labor rate).

Just turning off the trader quest seems like a strange thing to do.

I hear there is other SOTs besides Taming which are seeked by players.... at least on General Chat, I often hear players looking for Bushido, Tactics, Spellweaving as well as other SOTs....

So, for someone scripting Trade Quests for SOTs, especially if AFK, that is without investing any of their time or, even at the keyboard but watching TV or doing stuff on the computer while the script runs, and getting back to respond only if a Game Master says Hallo, is an easy way to make good in-game gold with little effort....

The problem then is, why on earth would any other player not scripting, want to spend their time to get those same items when they cannot compete with players who, because of scripting, are not spending any or much of their time to get those same items ?

This is how in my opinion UO looses some of its players... when players who do not want to script realize how pointless it is for them to spend their time to get items which other players scripting and multiboxing can do way more easily and thus can undersell, how surprising would it be to see some among these players decide to leave UO and go play other games ?

Imagine a player trying, for example, to get a Cameo.... and we know how low the drop rate is for them... and so, since these players neither script nor multibox, they have all of the difficulties of having to spend their time, look for fellow players to do the group necessary for this hunt and all that.

Then, they see some other players who, thanking to their scripting and multiboxing can do the Roof all the time on their own, with much, much less investment of their time in the game, and thus, get Cameos a go go and not only that, of course, but they also get plentifull of the other high end items that the Roof gives as drops...

Would it be surprising to then see quite a number among these players who neither script nor multibox decide that they have had enough with Ultima Online and go play someother game of the tons out there?

And these players which then Ultima Online was to loose, at least to my opinion, would be the good players who do not cheat, while those staying would be those who cheat...

And how good it is, if I may ask, for a game, any game, to see its players base shift from being mostly non-cheating players to cheating players ?

The prices of Cameos are kept artificially high, to my opinion, because these multiboxers and scripters who are getting them with very little investment of their time, hold onto them for the most part and only sell them when they fetch a high price, even though, perhaps, they have a good number of them in their inventory....

Moreless, like it happened with some PvP Guild monopolizing Powerscrolls who, would get Powerscrolls a go-go but, sell them very conservatorily so as to keep their price as high....  this, before Shard Shields and players going to some deserted Shard took place. With more players being able to get Powerscrolls and selling them (before the Taming changes which made pets capable of using Powerscrolls), prices for Powerscrolls finally went down.... then, with the taming and pet changes, demand for Powerscrolls went up again and by quite a lot and, even with an increased offer for Powerscrolls from the use of Shard Shields and farming on lowly populated Shards, the price for Powerscrolls went back up.

It is why Monopolies are bad, to my opinion, because they permit to a limited number of players to jack up prices thus causing a rampant inflation in the game which then can deters a number of new or returning players to want to play Ultima Online...

One thing which could be done, would be to "enhance" the Enhanced Client further and bring it "on par" with the Third Party applications which many among these players scripting and multiboxing are using...

At that point, all UO players would be on an equal footing, they all could Script and Multibox to their hearts' content, and get high end items in UO with little effort of their time no longer needing to go to those players who use Third Party applications to script and multibox.

That is at least the way I see it.

Popps.  Do you actually think anyone is going to read that long winded crap ?  I just think there might be so many relevant points swamped in that post somewhere 

nobody reads them

Learn to get to the POINT

While I do not deny cheating exists, and heartily wish it didn't, not all the assumptions made in this thread are accurate. I have a vendor selling SoTs - but I don't get them from trader quests, I get them from treasure maps, and while some cynics will tell you otherwise, I do not cheat, and never have. I can't see the point in it. You're not playing the game if you're cheating. But then I play to enjoy playing, not to build up a bank account. I don't have a single platinum, and have no desire to have one. I put things on vendors at the lowest price I can get away with without resellers buying me out. 

If you find someone cheating, report it. I do. You might not notice any action, especially if the offender is on 'first offence' and only gets a short suspension, but it has always been policy that we're not told what action is taken against particular accounts. 

Let's not forget that you can get +10 SoTs from VvV which is imcredibly easy to get points because nobody cares enough (or plays enough) to play it how it was designed. On ATL shard (ie likely the most populated shard) I have a VvV character that I've taken around at off-peak hours (not even talking 2am) and literally sat on city alters collecting points without seeing a single OJ to get a royal pardon (I could have selected SoT). It took me a few days because it's incredibly boring so I'd only do it maybe 2 hours or so a day. 

I only did it with 1 account but someone could easily just use 2/3/4/5 accounts with auto follow to sit on the alters. From other posts I've read I think even allied guilds will get 50pts from just being in town so if you just mark a few runebooks you could take a char with 50magery 50hiding and collect points all day long.

Petra_Fyde said:

While I do not deny cheating exists, and heartily wish it didn't, not all the assumptions made in this thread are accurate. I have a vendor selling SoTs - but I don't get them from trader quests, I get them from treasure maps, and while some cynics will tell you otherwise, I do not cheat, and never have. I can't see the point in it. You're not playing the game if you're cheating. But then I play to enjoy playing, not to build up a bank account. I don't have a single platinum, and have no desire to have one. I put things on vendors at the lowest price I can get away with without resellers buying me out. 

If you find someone cheating, report it. I do. You might not notice any action, especially if the offender is on 'first offence' and only gets a short suspension, but it has always been policy that we're not told what action is taken against particular accounts. 

I really wished that any and all Ultima Online's players played the game with that spirit of yours....

How a much, much, much better players' mutual environment would it be if everyone in the game was to play "not to build a bank account ".....

Unfortunately, at least looking at Global Chat messages, how many Auction boxes are in the game and players always looking to buy more, prices of items on Vendors and BIDs at Auctions, I am afraid that there seems to be quite a number of players who, instead, seem, at least to my opinion, to want to play to actually build a bank account....

popps said:

Petra_Fyde said:

While I do not deny cheating exists, and heartily wish it didn't, not all the assumptions made in this thread are accurate. I have a vendor selling SoTs - but I don't get them from trader quests, I get them from treasure maps, and while some cynics will tell you otherwise, I do not cheat, and never have. I can't see the point in it. You're not playing the game if you're cheating. But then I play to enjoy playing, not to build up a bank account. I don't have a single platinum, and have no desire to have one. I put things on vendors at the lowest price I can get away with without resellers buying me out. 

If you find someone cheating, report it. I do. You might not notice any action, especially if the offender is on 'first offence' and only gets a short suspension, but it has always been policy that we're not told what action is taken against particular accounts. 

I really wished that any and all Ultima Online's players played the game with that spirit of yours....

How a much, much, much better players' mutual environment would it be if everyone in the game was to play "not to build a bank account".....

Unfortunately, at least looking at Global Chat messages, how many Auction boxes are in the game and players always looking to buy more, I am afraid that there is quite a number of players who, instead, seem, at least to my opinion, to play to actually build a bank account....

You choose how to play 

keven2002 said:

On ATL shard (ie likely the most populated shard) I have a VvV character that I've taken around at off-peak hours (not even talking 2am) and literally sat on city alters collecting points without seeing a single OJ to get a royal pardon (I could have selected SoT). It took me a few days because it's incredibly boring so I'd only do it maybe 2 hours or so a day. 

I only did it with 1 account but someone could easily just use 2/3/4/5 accounts with auto follow to sit on the alters. From other posts I've read I think even allied guilds will get 50pts from just being in town so if you just mark a few runebooks you could take a char with 50magery 50hiding and collect points all day long.

I think the VvV sots are account bound. 

As far as the points go, read the bug section.

It's BETTER to work together for towns since everyone gets points with every stolen sigil and alter. 

Whether socially accepted, tolerated, or induced, cheating behavior is now massive, according to the survey. A total of 37% of gamers confessed to cheating (3% "always", 9% "often", 13% "sometimes", and 12% "rarely").Apr 30, 2018

Report: Cheating Is Becoming A Big Problem In Online Gaming

https://www.forbes.com › nelsongranados › 2018/04/30

I Doubt UO is the only game that has cheating, that was Arnolds comment.

 

But the monthly i mean every other month um i mean every 3 months or wait quarterly the newsletter tells xx users banned for this and that and obviously they are too busy with NL ..

Why not make a thread here with a poll asking if you ever cheated on uo or used an exploit (known or not at time)
id bet it would be closer to 85% have 

I did the spider silk think not even realizing it was an exploit at first. 

JohnKnighthawke said:

Whether socially accepted, tolerated, or induced, cheating behavior is now massive, according to the survey. A total of 37% of gamers confessed to cheating (3% "always", 9% "often", 13% "sometimes", and 12% "rarely").Apr 30, 2018

Report: Cheating Is Becoming A Big Problem In Online Gaming

https://www.forbes.com › nelsongranados › 2018/04/30

I Doubt UO is the only game that has cheating, that was Arnolds comment.

 

Wow.

OK, listen closely.

One cannot reasonably use 57% and 37% to reasonably make the same point.

Put one way: one is well over half, and the other is slightly over a third. Big difference.

Put another way: There is a difference of 20 on a scale of 0 to 100. Big difference.

No one to my knowledge said that cheating was exclusive to UO. I certainly didn't.

I don't really have time to properly research this now, nor would that prove much - folks will believe what they wish to believe.

The point is, cheating is bad, and allowing it un-answered is bad. It's not a hard concept.

If you are referring to the Plitch's study, the way I understood it, the 57% is referred to players who said that, at some point, when playing games they had used cheats before.... not in all games that they played, but in some they said they used cheats.

The 37% figure, instead, refers to players who said that they "always" used cheats in all the single-player games that they played.

So, at least to my understanding, the 2 figures are referred to 2 different arguments.

popps said:

JohnKnighthawke said:

Whether socially accepted, tolerated, or induced, cheating behavior is now massive, according to the survey. A total of 37% of gamers confessed to cheating (3% "always", 9% "often", 13% "sometimes", and 12% "rarely").Apr 30, 2018

Report: Cheating Is Becoming A Big Problem In Online Gaming

https://www.forbes.com › nelsongranados › 2018/04/30

I Doubt UO is the only game that has cheating, that was Arnolds comment.

 

Wow.

OK, listen closely.

One cannot reasonably use 57% and 37% to reasonably make the same point.

Put one way: one is well over half, and the other is slightly over a third. Big difference.

Put another way: There is a difference of 20 on a scale of 0 to 100. Big difference.

No one to my knowledge said that cheating was exclusive to UO. I certainly didn't.

I don't really have time to properly research this now, nor would that prove much - folks will believe what they wish to believe.

The point is, cheating is bad, and allowing it un-answered is bad. It's not a hard concept.

If you are referring to the Plitch's study, the way I understood it, the 57% is referred to players who said that, at some point, when playing games they had used cheats before.... not in all games that they played, but in some they said they used cheats.

The 37% figure, instead, refers to players who said that they "always" used cheats in all the single-player games that they played.

So, at least to my understanding, the 2 figures are referred to 2 different arguments.

Or maybe it is showing the amount of cheating increases with time.

Yall can search cheating in online games on your own, but here is one that backs what someone said about looking at the reasons ppl cheat:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/03/why-do-people-cheat-in-online-games-and-what-can-we-do-about-it/

Pawain said:

Or maybe it is showing the amount of cheating increases with time.

Yall can search cheating in online games on your own, but here is one that backs what someone said about looking at the reasons ppl cheat:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/03/why-do-people-cheat-in-online-games-and-what-can-we-do-about-it/

Yeah, if game Designers take away the reasons of why players cheat, then, I guess, players, or at least less players, would then have reasons to cheat in games since they would no longer be able to get the benefits that they are seeking (the "why") from their cheating given those changed games' Design to make cheating "fruitless"...

Pawain said:

Or maybe it is showing the amount of cheating increases with time.

Yall can search cheating in online games on your own, but here is one that backs what someone said about looking at the reasons ppl cheat:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2022/03/why-do-people-cheat-in-online-games-and-what-can-we-do-about-it/

ForeverFun said:

Yoshi said:

"Fixing the following bug(minor exploit) that the devs have confirmed *may make this encounter more difficult to rail
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1883/shadowguard-orchard

*it may not
"

You are joking?  Those tree fellows are a joke.
If the fountain and roof are no problem, attacking tree fellows are no problem.

What you're suggesting sounds like increasing the grind factor in the game (for legit players), not decreasing it.

+1, his opinion of what is "right" does not include fun factor that the game should have.

Seth said:

ForeverFun said:

Yoshi said:

"Fixing the following bug(minor exploit) that the devs have confirmed *may make this encounter more difficult to rail
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1883/shadowguard-orchard

*it may not
"

You are joking?  Those tree fellows are a joke.
If the fountain and roof are no problem, attacking tree fellows are no problem.

What you're suggesting sounds like increasing the grind factor in the game (for legit players), not decreasing it.

+1, his opinion of what is "right" does not include fun factor that the game should have.

I do the Orchard with a bard & 2 earth elementals. I throw the apples at the trees and fight the tree fellows. I can complete the encounter before the earth elementals time out.  There is absolutely no need to cheat that encounter, but people do it anyway. Which kind of makes nonsense of popp's theory that people wouldn't cheat if there was nothing to gain. People cheat because they think it's 'clever' to defeat the system.  I, personally, think it's pathetic, but that's just me.

Petra_Fyde said:

 People cheat because they think it's 'clever' to defeat the system.  I, personally, think it's pathetic, but that's just me.

Not that there aren't various reasons for cheating, but I do find the segment of the population Petra is mentioning particularly unappealing. Those who want to get over on others because they enjoy applying themselves in the world that way. A grifter's gonna grift, I guess.

The biggest user of multiboxing I've personally known (I don't pay much attention to what cheaters are up to in general) IMO did a lot of harm to his home shard. He used multiboxing to farm gold, to pvp, and to show off. He loved to show off his 'army'. 

After wiping my characters on my home shard, letting my grandfathered properties fall, and taking a long break from UO, I came back to the shard where this multiboxer played. I started there primarily because it was a decent connection and there was open land where my old stomping grounds were originally. And that tugged at my heartstrings.

This guy unsuccessfully tried to recruit me into learning to multibox. Whether he had success with others I couldn't say. A long story made a little shorter...

Even though I became well established there with characters and housing, I ultimately left that shard because of the infighting this guy caused with his cheating and his attitude. He recently bought his election as a governor so I'm guessing not much has changed with him. Pretty gross.

I think all this discussion makes a good case for shard bound.  When I first started playing during the COVID invasion event a lot of players including my self complained that most of the invasion books won on my shard where being taken off shard to Atlantic to be sold.  This conclusion I based on the fact that not that many of the books came up for sale on my shard during the event and that some of the players getting a lot of the books said that is what they were doing with the books and making millions in the process.  I would have liked to buy some of the rarer books but have never seen any of them come up for sale on my shard during the event or after.

I'm not at all a fan of shard bound items. Instead, I'd rather see traveling between shards made easier for all paying players. Seems silly, given how many shards struggle with low populations, that we can't travel easily to mingle, group up, and go shopping. 

Change Shard Shields to 1st year vet rewards and make tokens useable to all players. Players with shields could sell their extra tokens in-game. 

Arnold7 said:Recently I created a character on Atlantic just to see what it was like there.

Welcome!  You can buy anything at anytime and sell anything at anytime, day or night. I'm not sure why Atl became the merchant hub for the whole game but it is pretty nice. 

If you would like to actually play here i'm more than willing to help sincere players. 

Urge said:

Arnold7 said:Recently I created a character on Atlantic just to see what it was like there.

Welcome!  You can buy anything at anytime and sell anything at anytime, day or night. I'm not sure why Atl became the merchant hub for the whole game but it is pretty nice. 

If you would like to actually play here i'm more than willing to help sincere players. 

Sephirah Sp?  Will give him all the deco he needs to start a new house.

The discussion of surveys and cheating rates is a red herring.  We know it's not 0% and we know it's not 100%.  You may as well just pick a random number +/- 25 away from 50%.  How would knowing that number relative to UO change anything?

Then there's the question of what constitutes cheating, and getting any agreement on that.

Is using the provocation skill to provoke pirates onto each other in the bar cheating, or an oversight of the developers?  Likewise, provoking tree fellows in the orchard onto each other?

For all we know, the "pets eating apples" in the orchard wasn't an oversight.

Anybody that played the standalone Ultima series games know that finding tricks and short-cuts was part of the game.

There's a place I go to in the real world, that only does take-away food.  There's a single ordering kiosk people use.  When there's a line, you can wait 15 minutes to get to that kiosk to order.  Is it "cheating" to place the order online from your phone when arriving, thereby bypassing the line wait?

Back to the "grind" in UO - if it was easier for the average player to get say a taming 5.0 SOT, is that really a bad thing (the odds of getting even a 0.1 or 0.5 taming SOT are already against you)?  Would it be a bad thing if players could run the roof 10 times in 2 hours, only keying the rooms once during that period?

Would it be a bad thing to remove/reduce the various respawn cooldown timers (mini-champs, cora, underwater boss, ...)?  Who benefits, who is harmed?

ForeverFun said:

Then there's the question of what constitutes cheating, and getting any agreement on that.


For all we know, the "pets eating apples" in the orchard wasn't an oversight.

Anybody that played the standalone Ultima series games know that finding tricks and short-cuts was part of the game.

There's a place I go to in the real world, that only does take-away food.  There's a single ordering kiosk people use.  When there's a line, you can wait 15 minutes to get to that kiosk to order.  Is it "cheating" to place the order online from your phone when arriving, thereby bypassing the line wait?

Probably the most important bug in UO, Thanks Yoshi.

Pawain said:

Probably the most important bug in UO, Thanks Yoshi.

Ah but you admit uo has bugs

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

Probably the most important bug in UO, Thanks Yoshi.

Ah but you admit uo has bugs

Yup and that must be one of the worst.  What game doesn't have bugs or ways to exploit.  Why would UO be different, move along troll.  games have had bugs and exploits since they came out, The first computer had a literal bug in the system.  Learn history  and how to play.  😂

Arnold7 said:

I think all this discussion makes a good case for account bound. 

Fixed it for you. Every other MMO has some form of account bound system where high end items you are REQUIRED TO PLAY THE GAME, what a CRAZY idea, I know, and oddly enough it stops shit like this from happening. UO is long overdue for an account bound system, from ToT reward gear to stuff like this, it fixes every problem. Unfortunately, it's too late to do Shadow guard, but for any new content (LOL new content) it should be the standard.

Pawain said:

Probably the most important bug in UO, Thanks Yoshi.

Ya!  Looks like it has been two years since that post, so it's likely the UO team re-thought this, or otherwise decided it was not an interesting priority.  I suspect anybody scripting this stuff would laugh it off regardless.

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

Probably the most important bug in UO, Thanks Yoshi.

Ah but you admit uo has bugs

Yup and that must be one of the worst.  What game doesn't have bugs or ways to exploit.  Why would UO be different, move along troll.  games have had bugs and exploits since they came out, The first computer had a literal bug in the system.  Learn history  and how to play.  😂

So spellbook staps are in fact broken?

I'd leave the game if the best goodies were account bound. So, no thank you, please.

UO revolves around vendor search so account bound classification would not work.  To make enough gold to buy what you need, you have to have something you can sell to other players for around at least 500,000 gold a copy.  Suppose it is possible for a single player to harvest every thing other players sell but you would have to be quite a player to do that and put in a lot of play time.

For those that travel from one shard to another would like to see a personal equipment account bound classification for what they use to play the game and don’t intend to sell so they don’t have to store personal equipment on every shard they play on.

For myself I am not going to attempt to harvest everything I need in game so I rely on vendor search to make gold.  Specifically selling drops and rewards from special events.  I have no idea how to play multiple accounts at the same time or even a single bot, but I did alright selling a dozen or so drops and a couple of rewards from the last event.  As long as I can continue to do that I will continue to play.

LilyGrace said:

I'd leave the game if the best goodies were account bound. So, no thank you, please.

The amount of players that have left the game due to deafening silence on issues like this from the Dev team quite outweigh the threat of the loss of one player.

I didn’t mean it as a threat. Not really my style to threaten. I meant it very matter of factly. And since it’s very highly unlikely to ever happen it would be very silly to make threats about it anyway. 

LilyGrace said:

I didn’t mean it as a threat. Not really my style to threaten. I meant it very matter of factly. And since it’s very highly unlikely to ever happen it would be very silly to make threats about it anyway. 

The entire game, and how the majority of players enjoy it, would be entirely upended if highly sought after items could only be gained individually and were tied only to the account that obtained those items. 

It’s literally one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen floated on these boards. 

Why does it work for WOW?

McDougle said:

LilyGrace said:

I didn’t mean it as a threat. Not really my style to threaten. I meant it very matter of factly. And since it’s very highly unlikely to ever happen it would be very silly to make threats about it anyway. 

The entire game, and how the majority of players enjoy it, would be entirely upended if highly sought after items could only be gained individually and were tied only to the account that obtained those items. 

It’s literally one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen floated on these boards. 

Why does it work for WOW?

If WoW is like Diablo III, the legendaries drop like rain so you have multiples in a few play sessions.

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

LilyGrace said:

I didn’t mean it as a threat. Not really my style to threaten. I meant it very matter of factly. And since it’s very highly unlikely to ever happen it would be very silly to make threats about it anyway. 

The entire game, and how the majority of players enjoy it, would be entirely upended if highly sought after items could only be gained individually and were tied only to the account that obtained those items. 

It’s literally one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen floated on these boards. 

Why does it work for WOW?

If WoW is like Diablo III, the legendaries drop like rain so you have multiples in a few play sessions.

This circumvents the question not answers it 

Lol because WoW is WoW and UO is UO. You think it’s a good idea to entirely change how things have been working between players, selling and trading items in UO, for decades?

This is silly.

LilyGrace said:

Lol because WoW is WoW and UO is UO. You think it’s a good idea to entirely change how things have been working between players, selling and trading items in UO, for decades?

This is silly.

But butt but

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/tower-of-fantasy-drops-the-banhammer-on-10000-accounts-releases-list-of-names-for-public-shaming-2000125895