Diminishing return at wildfire

hi can someone explain to me what exactly diminishing returns in wildfire event is.

I was on my tamer who was stealthed at fire dungeon by the fire elements across the rope, I did kill a few other spawns  near the entrance  Was there 45 mins and got no artifact to turn in.   No drop

I was on my tamer on Seige, where the spawn rate is extremely slow.

Killing the same monster over and over lowers odds and if I'm not mistaken being hidden effects the drop rate as well 

It sounds like you aren't very effective at killing stuff. 45 mins is WAY more time than it takes to get a drop. Playing slowly on my tamer slowly I can get one every 10 min easily.

Also, being invised when fighting with pets dramatically lowers your chance to get drops. I don't know the exact implementation; like if it's lowering your luck or straight up lowering your chance at getting a drop, but you shouldn't stay invised when fighting with pets. This has been in-game for a long time and most people don't know about it. 

"I read somewhere that being hidden reduces your chance of artifact drop by 1000%, same mechanics as blackthorn dungeon, can't locate the source sorry" 

Yoshi said:

"I read somewhere that being hidden reduces your chance of artifact drop by 1000%, same mechanics as blackthorn dungeon, can't locate the source sorry" 

Yes @Kyronix has discussed this before i seem to recall it's staying hidden for xxx amount of time that starts the diminishing returns 

"i average 6 arties an hour afk not hidden, tried hidden - did not receive any while hidden"

thanks for the reply's 🙂

When deceit was on there was a tamer with a few cu's where the teleport is to the 3rd level on Atlantic.  He was hidden lots, his cu's just killed anything that spawned in that little square room.   So your saying he didn't get many artie drops?

Goldie said:

thanks for the reply's 🙂

When deceit was on there was a tamer with a few cu's where the teleport is to the 3rd level on Atlantic.  He was hidden lots, his cu's just killed anything that spawned in that little square room.   So your saying he didn't get many artie drops?

Not as many as they could have if they were visible

McDougle said:

Yoshi said:

"I read somewhere that being hidden reduces your chance of artifact drop by 1000%, same mechanics as blackthorn dungeon, can't locate the source sorry" 

Yes @ Kyronix has discussed this before i seem to recall it's staying hidden for xxx amount of time that starts the diminishing returns 

And how much would that " xxx " time be ?

Also, is it per " kill " ?

Or is it per " drop " ?

The thing is, that the Tamer gameplay NEEDS for the tamer to go into hiding....

The pet, is the Tamer's Weapon. Therefore, the Tamer needs for the Monster to aggro the Pet rather then the Tamer since the Tamer needs to be free from fighting in order to heal continuously his/her pet.

While the " Kill " command sets the pet onto a Monster, it does not necessarily set the Monster that was aggroed on the Tamer to swith aggro onto the pet.

Only hiding does that (other then the Provocation skill), and only if the tamer stays into hiding sufficiently long for the Monster to "switch" their aggro onto the pet.

My point being, that Tamers NEED to get into hiding to break aggro from the spawn onto them and have it switched onto their pet.

And they HAVE TO get into hiding multiple times...

This is the natural part of a Tamer's gameplay.

Punishing this need to get into hiding by forcing diminishing returns and lower drops seems to be an excessive penalization of a legittimate gameplay strategy.

Therefore, @Kyronix , could you PLEASE kindly let us know more in detail how the Code plays out in diving diminishing returns to a Tamer ?

First and foremost, how much time is that " xxx " time that one stays hidden ?

Is it a "one time" hidden time per kill ? Or per drop ?

Or is it a "cumulative" hidden time that results over multiple hidings that a Tamer might need to hide to break aggro over one kill ? Or over multiple kills leading to one drop ?

I mean, it would be beneficial to Tamers to know how it works so that their legittimate gameplay of needing to hide to break aggro, would not penalize them towards their chances at a drop...

Thanks.

I invis or stealth hide i don't stay that way once again do you want someone to come and teach you ? Or do you just want to write endless paragraphs about it...

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Goldie said:

thanks for the reply's 🙂

When deceit was on there was a tamer with a few cu's where the teleport is to the 3rd level on Atlantic.  He was hidden lots, his cu's just killed anything that spawned in that little square room.   So your saying he didn't get many artie drops?

Not as many as they could have if they were visible

This looks to me the same thing as the randomization of resources...

For a scripter, the "reduced" returns are totally meaningless.....

Why ?

Because they are NOT using their real life time, they use a script, have it run on their computer, and they go do something else in their real life and let the script run.

So, that they get diminishing returns, they could not care less because those diminishing returns are largely compensated by their enormously increased time in the game, AFK, thanking to their script running.

Those players who are REALLY screwed by these diminishing returns, are ALL of the players who LEGITTIMATELY play AT THE KEYBOARD, but using that gameplay Tactics which causes the diminishing returns...

In our case here for this Thread, the killing of the spawn at a given location, or hiding to break aggro....

Again, AFK scripter DO NOT CARE about this Diminishing Returns code, because they can script AFK 24/7 if so they want.... 

Sure, they get less drops due to the diminishing return but, their extremely longer time running the script, largely offsets the diminishing retuns and still brings them home a whole lot of drops or high end resources, regardless of their randomization....

I have said it a lot of times that, to my opinion, the "punishing" of legittimate gameplay to try curb scripters only really punishes legittimate gameplay and players, NOT the scripters who can still bring home their "goodies" thanking to being able to run their scripts 24/7....

What Broadsword should do, to my opinion, should be going after AFK scripting itself, and not putting in solutions like the randomization of Resources or these diminishing returns which only affect legit resource gatherers and Tamers who need to hide to break Monsters' aggro...

@Kyronix , please, would it be possible to see solutions that are more directed to identifying AFK scripters and address them, rather then punishing legittimate AT THE KEYBOARD players ?

Take Endless Journey accounts recently being banned from General Chat and being relegated to the Help Chat only...

Why not address those AFK scripting SPAMMING in General Chat rather then punishing, with that decision, also legittimate EJ accounts players who now can no longer talk in General Chat ?

I mean, WHY on earth don't you guys straight address AFK scripting once and for all, rather then putting in these solutions which may affect legittimate players and hurt their gameplay so much??

I do not get it.

Does anyone else HATE it when people CAPITALIZE words to put EMPHASIS on them? It come off pretty OBNOXIOUS. Also, what’s your solution boss? Captchas every 20 mins? It’s easy to cry about a problem you don’t have a solution for and can’t begin to understand what it would take to solve such problem. 

RonFellows said:

Does anyone else HATE it when people CAPITALIZE words to put EMPHASIS on them? It come off pretty OBNOXIOUS. Also, what’s your solution boss? Captchas every 20 mins? It’s easy to cry about a problem you don’t have a solution for and can’t begin to understand what it would take to solve such problem. 

Nope, it is a hangover from platforms like facebook etc that don't allow BOLD type so people have got in the habit of capitalizing words instead of using bold.   No big deal unless you wanna be anal about it.  Whole sentences is still rude and obnoxious though as that is SHOUTING!

thanks for the replys 🙂

RonFellows said:

Does anyone else HATE it when people CAPITALIZE words to put EMPHASIS on them? It come off pretty OBNOXIOUS. Also, what’s your solution boss? Captchas every 20 mins? It’s easy to cry about a problem you don’t have a solution for and can’t begin to understand what it would take to solve such problem. 

The reason for that type of writing, at least to my viewing, is to have certain "key" words be highlighted... the reason for doing this, is that some people when they read, they skip through the words to read faster.... by having a few, key words being highlighted or in caps, that would at least make it possible for the reader to get the sense of what one has written, since those words being highlighted or in caps are key words in their meaning of that context...

So, it really is to make the reading faster and better get the sense of what one has written, the crux of it.

Get to the point and we won't skim through your novels.

Pawain said:

Get to the point and we won't skim through your novels.

Agreed you can make a point in very few words. if you want to . . .

Thanks for the info, but it seems I have a couple more questions on how points are gained.

When you die and your pet is still killing stuff and you run out to get a res.  Do you still get points while dead?   if yes does it spawn on your corpse if your point became a event drop?

Next question how longs a paragon stay a paragon in events like this if no one kills it.  Does it go back to normal, non paragon?

Assume no you get no drops while dead . Once a paragon always a paragon...

Goldie said:

Thanks for the info, but it seems I have a couple more questions on how points are gained.

When you die and your pet is still killing stuff and you run out to get a res.  Do you still get points while dead?   if yes does it spawn on your corpse if your point became a event drop?

Next question how longs a paragon stay a paragon in events like this if no one kills it.  Does it go back to normal, non paragon?

I am thinking (cannot prove it) you are getting score when you are  dead. 
There is some pool, increasing your possibility to get n item. Every mob gives you a chance to get it. But the higher your pool - the higher are our chances. 
I get an item quite often after I ressed , some nasty stuff kiled me and pet finished it. Getting no drop in your corpse, but will get drop  sooner. 
At least this is what I beleive. 

I believe that if you were alive when the fight began, you will get the drop if you were due one. But you won't get drops from subsequent fights the pet may engage in until you are alive again.

I'm no mind reader, but having played for many years, I would venture to guess that the idea is to discourage players who might be tempted to stay dead and leave the pet to fight on alone.

Goldie said:

hi can someone explain to me what exactly diminishing returns in wildfire event is.

I was on my tamer who was stealthed at fire dungeon by the fire elements across the rope, I did kill a few other spawns  near the entrance  Was there 45 mins and got no artifact to turn in.   No drop

I was on my tamer on Seige, where the spawn rate is extremely slow.

Being hidden and/or killing the same of creature over and over again will diminish your returns.  You need to move around, and kill fresh types of spawn in order to maximize your gains.

Goldie.  I kill the smaller stuff, help other players kill the bigger stuff and heal the dead. That usually gets me a drop about every half hour.  I do invis. for short periods occasionally.  Don’t play a tamer so don’t know for sure if this helps you.  But it works for me.  You don’t need to solo paragons to get drops  but think it does help if you can damage them while they are occupied fighting some one else’s pet.  Also, might help to have your pet go in and out of the fight.  These para’s switch targets during the fight and that can get you killed very quickly.

Is diminishing returns timing based as well?  I took few days off for 4th of july, I come back and get 3 wildfire items within 20 minutes (in tram no less).   Either that or its christmas in july...

Drago said:

Is diminishing returns timing based as well?  I took few days off for 4th of july, I come back and get 3 wildfire items within 20 minutes (in tram no less).   Either that or its christmas in july...

Nope I came back from a week off and hit my luck statue and got 3 drops that first hour...

thanks  for replys 🙂

hi Kyronix  On Seige I do move around, I go into the dungeon stealthed with pet behind, once my pet attacks something, I go out of hiding(as long as I know there is no pkers around) and stay out of hiding till my pet is done killing the mob, then I stealth more into the dungeon and I do the same thing over and over again till I am at the door where the grave yard it.  Its a slow respawn in the dungeon entrance and path before the door where the grave yard is, and usually there is paras just on the other side of the door( or at the front when you first get into the dungeon).  So I stealth back to the front of the dungeon till I see spawn again or a pk thats going to kill me, which happens 98% of the time cause on seige  theres always pkers around.   
 
See I move around and I kill different things.  I was just wondering about diminishing returns.  This process I have to get a drop is very very slow, which is why I was wondering about diminishing returns.   
 
thank you Kyronix  and all the helped me understand this 🙂    This is not a complaint in any way shape or form, but trying to understand diminishing returns cause 1 drop an hour is slow, and now i know why 🙂

I know on Atlantic doing the dungeon in tram is a lot different cause I go there and do it at times.  I don't hide there ever lots of people lots of spawn ( no pkers).  On seige is very challenging, I don't mind it at times, I do not pvp can't so I am as they say a lamb.  But I like seige don't want to quit it, but it can stress me at times.  So off to Atlantic I go for a moment then I try seige again.   

Thank you all, sorry for long post  🙂

Goldie said:

thanks  for replys 🙂

hi Kyronix  On Seige I do move around, I go into the dungeon stealthed with pet behind, once my pet attacks something, I go out of hiding(as long as I know there is no pkers around) and stay out of hiding till my pet is done killing the mob, then I stealth more into the dungeon and I do the same thing over and over again till I am at the door where the grave yard it.  Its a slow respawn in the dungeon entrance and path before the door where the grave yard is, and usually there is paras just on the other side of the door( or at the front when you first get into the dungeon).  So I stealth back to the front of the dungeon till I see spawn again or a pk thats going to kill me, which happens 98% of the time cause on seige  theres always pkers around.   
 
See I move around and I kill different things.  I was just wondering about diminishing returns.  This process I have to get a drop is very very slow, which is why I was wondering about diminishing returns.   
 
thank you Kyronix  and all the helped me understand this 🙂    This is not a complaint in any way shape or form, but trying to understand diminishing returns cause 1 drop an hour is slow, and now i know why 🙂

I know on Atlantic doing the dungeon in tram is a lot different cause I go there and do it at times.  I don't hide there ever lots of people lots of spawn ( no pkers).  On seige is very challenging, I don't mind it at times, I do not pvp can't so I am as they say a lamb.  But I like seige don't want to quit it, but it can stress me at times.  So off to Atlantic I go for a moment then I try seige again.   

Thank you all, sorry for long post  🙂

@Kyronix ;

As @Goldie has indicated, he/she plays on Siege which, as we know, has a PvP ruleset.

Therefore, as Goldie has indicated, staying hidden and stealthing while playing PvM, there, even more then in Felucca on Production Shards, might pretty much be, not just a necessity, but an indispensable aspect of gameplay....

And why would that be ?

Because, over the Years, the Developers have decided to "separate" PvP gameplay and gear from PvM gameplay and gear.

That is, "what works" for PvM, does not do for PvP..... 

Which it results in the outcome that a player geared up and fit for PvM, like for trying to get drops at these Dynamic Tokuno Event types, is then not necessarily fit for PvP.

And, I need to imagine, on a PvP ruleset facet, and even moreso on Siege, I would think, for a PvM geared up character, being able to repeteadly Hide and NOT run all over the place to find kills, that is being able to find an off the way corner and find Monsters to kill, repeteadly, would be the only way to be able to play a PvM Event on those Shards. Being found by a Pkiller means, for a PvM geared up character, not being able to defend oneself properly and, usually, since Pkillers wait for their Targets to be low on health from Monsters before attacking them, often this means sure death, if having to stay always visible and always changing Monsters' Targets, because of the Diminishing returns code....

So, by reducing the drops when one hides, and when one keeps killing the same monster over and over due to "Diminishing Returns Code", as Goldie mentioned, basically the UO Designers have made this "PvM" Treasures of.... Events, hardly playable and enjoyable on PvP Siege and Mugen Shards, I would imagine.

No wonder that these PvP rulesets loose players every day some more, if one looks at how the Design of these Events is done in a way that conjures against making it possible for players to play these PvM Treasures Of.... type of Events there....

I can understand that, as Developers, you might want to implement these diminishing Return "code" for Trammel Ruleset to prevent Camping, but, for PvP ruleset facets, certainly for Siege and Mugen Shards, to my opinion, it should absolutely be deactivated, and, at least on these 2 Shards, you should permit players on Siege and Mugen to be able to collect their drops by fighting PvM, on a PvP Shard, while being able to hide, stealth and keep killing the same Monster over and over. NO Diminishing Return Code there.

Or, if you do not want to deactivate this Code on those Shards, then do not be surprised to see every day more and more players abandon playing on those Shards and Rulesets and them becoming, even moreso, dead Shards.

Players react to your Design decisions, and if your Design decisions, as Goldie experienced, make a player on Siege and Mugen end up only having 1 drop an hour, because they HAVE TO always hide and stealth and cannot run to hit different Monsters all over the place, thus being visible all the time on a PvM Template, thus being vulnerable to PvP attackers, then players might start thinking about "why" bothering playing on those Shards at all, when the type of Design that is implemented does not permit them to enjoying those PvM Events there.....

The bottom line argument is, to my viewing, that it is NOT possible to implement the same type of Design for a PvM Facet like Trammel is, and put it on PvP Servers like Siege and Mugen are.

It cannot work, to my opinion.

Players trying to do PvM content on PvP Shards such as Siege and Mugen NEED to hide, they NEED to Stealth, they may NEED to have to keep killing the same Monster over and over in an out of the way place that perhaps is not much patrolled by PvP attackers.

If your Design force these players to have to be always visible, and to have to run all over the Dungeon to change targets, such a Design is basically forcing players fit for PvM to HAVE TO remain highly vulnerable to PvP attackers, always...

It is a design which makes things even easier for Pkillers and ends up driving even more players AWAY from wanting to play on those Shards, me thinks. If they cannot enjoy these Treasure of... PvM type of Events on those Shards, why bother with them at all ?

Because, a PvM fit and geared character is not as good for PvP just like a PvP fit and geared character is not fit for PvM as it has been so, unfortunately, in Ultima Online, for Years and Years, because of Design decisions made long time ago.

To my viewing, the proper Design decision here would be to entirely deactivate the Diminishing Return code for Siege and Mugen rulesets and, thus, permit to players there, like Goldie, trying to enjoy PvM content, to be able to do so even if they hide, stealth, and they keep killing the same Monster over and over.

After all, on those Rulesets, players can be killed and looted as they have no insurance, I seem to understand, so, the "farming concerns" that you may have for the Trammel ruleset for which this "Diminishing Returns Code" was originally conceived, are a no-issue there, I need to imagine. Players found farming on those Shards, can be killed and looted.

So, WHY do you keep the same Trammel code for Diminishing Returns remain as active, also for Siege and Mugen ?

Don't you realize that, in doing so, this might eventually get more and more players leave those Shards and no longer play on them because they simply are prevented by this Design to be able to enjoy PvM content on those Shards ?

I mean, as Goldie mentioned, having 1 drop an hour there, because of the Diminishing Returns code, to my opinion, is not acceptable.

And when players face non acceptable Design, they just quit playing the game, it is an understandable consequence, I would guess.

You guys are the Designers, and of course the choices and the decisions are fully yours.

Just do not be surprised then, when you see players abandoning and quitting the game.

Of course, this is just the way I see it.

LMAO Shakes head and walks away, it's back.

Bilbo said:

LMAO Shakes head and walks away, it's back.

Sometimes, a reality check might be important to have....

Players play the game to have fun, if the Design makes it not fun, then what is the point of playing?

And, by the way, the more players want to play, the more resources Ultima Online would get from subscriptions.... therefore, I would imagine, the # 1 Priority should make content be Fun for players, not an impossible task....

I mean, would you find 1 drop an hour for a "Treasure of...." type of Event to be enjoyable content, for items then costing 200 points which it would mean 200 hours of gameplay ?

Seriously ?

To me it is so obvious that something here is not working right for Ultima Online, that it should not even need anyone to point it out.....

you choose to stealth on Seige you don't have to you choose to play on a pvp server no changes needed

McDougle said:

you choose to stealth on Seige you don't have to you choose to play on a pvp server no changes needed

You are perhaps confusing a "choice", with a "necessity".

They are entirely 2 different things.

Having to hide and Stealth on Siege and Mugen (and also on Felucca although, with insurance, there this is a less relevant issue) is a must have, not much of a choice, I would imagine.

Having a Design like "Diminishing Returns" which penalizes a survival "necessity" like hiding, stealthing, and possibly killing the same monster over and over in an out of the way place, away from patrolled spots by pkillers, is, to my opinion, an unfortunate Design decision (or just an oversight ?) which might only further drive away players from the game, at least on those Shards.

Furthermore, as I mentioned, to my understanding the "Diminishing Returns code" was mainly conceived to address farmers on Trammel ruleset.

On Siege and Mugen, which are PvP ruleset, and where players farming can be killed and looted, I can only imagine that farming is of no concern or, at the very least, not in the same capacity as it might be on the Trammel ruleset.

Therefore, the "Diminishing Return code" on Siege and Mugen, has no place, is not needed, and only does harm and can possibly cause further loss of players to those Shards which, I would imagine, would not be a good thing for those playing those Shards, included pkillers.... I mean, if players abandon those Shards because Design does not help them to enjoy PvM content on them, who would the pkillers find to then kill ?

Consequentially, to my viewing, changes do are needed, to the Design code for these Events on those Shards.....

No it is totally a choice on siege you made a character on a pvp totally a choice you choose to have hiding and stealth drop all pvp is consensual you choose to go through the red gate etc. 

OMG only you @popps

@popps ; ,  Can you read  @Goldie  post (you quoted it)  again? 
He stated that most of time he is hiding and crawling somewhere to kill another slime or a rat. You cannot get points for staying hidden and walking towards your next  prey. It depends on how many mobs you killed. He is slow at killing. 
It is not kindergarten contest where you get a medal just for participation of any kind (sitting and crying included). 

On another topic you a stating that tamers only need to hide. Here you beleive that Siedge is only hiding . Go hit some stuff. Do hit and run . Or just stay at home , reforge weapon and sell. Prices for cold weaps are very high now. Sell it and buy drops to turn in. 

I was in the midst of playing on Siege when the event started and it just didn’t seem worth it to spend the time crawling around invisible to try to get anything only to be murdered and looted, so I just have been spending time on another shard to participate and get the rewards I want. 

dvvid said:

I was in the midst of playing on Siege when the event started and it just didn’t seem worth it to spend the time crawling around invisible to try to get anything only to be murdered and looted, so I just have been spending time on another shard to participate and get the rewards I want. 

I don’t exactly know if this needs to be “fixed” or what a solution would be but this is something that resonated with me in the post. 

Fixed like how? You can   do this event with PVP template. Or with naked template, trying to kill stuff, siege-bless one drop and run to turn it in. Rinse and repeat. 
There is no "I habited to play this way so make event where my toon will be top 1"  
You need to change and adapt if you want to win something. Or  just buy it from other players who did. 

I’m saying I don’t know how it would be “fixed” because I don't know if I’d say anything is broken. I already know it’s a different approach over there. 

No Bag of Sending on Siege?

Bilbo said:

LMAO Shakes head and walks away, it's back.

just make sure your scroll button is actually set to scroll and just roll on by . . .

Gwen said:

dvvid said:

I was in the midst of playing on Siege when the event started and it just didn’t seem worth it to spend the time crawling around invisible to try to get anything only to be murdered and looted, so I just have been spending time on another shard to participate and get the rewards I want. 

I don’t exactly know if this needs to be “fixed” or what a solution would be but this is something that resonated with me in the post. 

Fixed like how? You can   do this event with PVP template. Or with naked template, trying to kill stuff, siege-bless one drop and run to turn it in. Rinse and repeat. 
There is no "I habited to play this way so make event where my toon will be top 1"  
You need to change and adapt if you want to win something. Or  just buy it from other players who did. 

You have not explained, though, why the "Diminishing Returns code" which was conceived against Trammel ruleset farmers, would be something "needed" for the Siege and Mugen.

I have a guess..... because there is ZERO reason for this code to exist on Siege and Mugen since, on those Shards, due to being PvP ruleset and not having insurance, farming is not an issue or, at the very least, nowhere comparable to the issue that it is on the Trammel ruleset.

Now, why then to have this code which penalizes further players on these 2 particular Shards when it is not needed there to start with ?

Because it obviously makes life easier to Pkillers who can now more easily find their Targets in those Dungeons hosting the "Treasures of...." type of Events since their Targets, due to that code, have to stay visible, and are forced to have to move around and change targets all over the place ?

Never thought that, if one subset of players is having it easy, the Pkillers, then the other subset of players, their PvM targets, might be having it harder, as I seem to understand from Goldie's Post ?

He/she did mention that, when frustrated, he/she goes to enjoy the Event on Atlantic....

Is it hard to think that, perhaps, just perhaps, just like Goldie, there may be other players on those Shards, incapacitated to enjoy these "Treasure of...." type of Events, by the Design which badly applies to the particular ruleset of those 2 Shards (the Diminishing Returns code which I am suggesting to deactivate for those 2 Shards), who may then "migrate" to Production Shards to enjoy these "Treasures of...." style of Events and, who knows, perhaps not go back to Siege and Mugen for good, then, or, even stop playing althougether UO ?

Is it really this that people want ? To see Ultima Online further loose players' base ?

Because, as I said, players react to Design choices and if those Design choices make their drops plummet to 1 an hour, I do not see what the point would be to play the game....

I mean, seriously ?

Spend 200 real time hours farming to get an item ? It is totally unreasonable, to my opinion.

Under those conditions, it is much better to stop playing althougether, at that point, and move to go play something else. And then Ultima Online further looses players' base....

dvvid said:

I’m saying I don’t know how it would be “fixed” because I don't know if I’d say anything is broken. I already know it’s a different approach over there. 

All I’m pointing out is that the amount of time it takes to get 1 drop and get it to a bank/home compared to how many drops you can get on another shard is very disproportionate. Seeing that it is a temporary event, I found it a better use of my time to play on a shard that isn’t siege so I can fully take advantage of the event and the drops. It’s preference for sure, which is why I can’t say anything needs to be “fixed” but it might be cool if there was a way for it to be more worthwhile on Siege. 

Overall, It’s not much of a concern for me. 

All I’m pointing out is that the amount of time it takes to get 1 drop and get it to a bank/home compared to how many drops you can get on another shard is very disproportionate. 

This Paragraph that I highlighted, on itself, shows to me how it is dead wrong, to my viewing, to want to apply the same exact Design conceived for Trammel Ruleset Shards to Siege and Mugen Shards....

For example, since the drop rate, as reported, on those Shards is way much lower, the cost of the items on those Shards should ALSO be much lower....

If Goldie experienced a 1 drop an hour drop rate on Siege, while on Production Shards it is, like about 10 drops an hour, THEN, items on Siege and Mugen should NOT have the same cost as they have on Production Shards but, require considerable less drops...

For example, if the ratio was 1 to 10 per hour between Siege/Mugen and Production Shards, then, as an example, the Wildfire Ostard which cost 200 points on Production Shards, on Siege/Mugen should cost 20 points.... this, to make these PvM Events and the Rewards that they bring, also viable for all players on those Shards, to my opinion, so that they would not feel to go play those Event on other Shards.....

This is only an example saying that, just like the "Diminishing Returns Code" is out of place on Siege/Mugen because it was conceived and intended for the Trammel Ruleset, a much different Ruleset, LIKEWISE, it is not possible to take the cost for Reward Items conceived for Trammel Ruleset Production Shards where people can more easily farm for drops, and "flat out" apply the same cost for Reward Items on Siege and Mugen where the drop rate for artifacts during these "Treasures of.... " type of Events is abysmally lower....

This, if we want players to keep playing on those Shards and justify the upkeep and cost of them running... otherwise, as @dvvid well pointed out, he went to other Shards to enjoy the "Treasures of ...." Event, certainly did NOT do it on Siege, with that ridicolously low rate of drops, given the particular Ruleset and gameplay of that Shard....

I wonder how many "active" players there may really be on Siege and Mugen ..... I would not be surprised to learn that, all in all, perhaps there is like 20, at most 30 players logging regularly on those 2 Shards.... I cannot possibly see how such a low number of active, regular players, can EVER justify running and covering the costs for having these Shards up and running...

And if the Design of these Events is one that, when "wrongly" applied to the Siege and Mugen Ruleset,  "force" players from these Shards to have to go to other Shards, to then be able to enjoy these Events, as @Goldie and @dvvid pointed out, in the long run, these players might start asking themselves "what is the point" to play on Siege/Mugen if then, to enjoy playing PvM Events, they have to go play them elsewhere...

You want to end up seeing only 5 to 10 active players on Siege and Mugen ? Is that the end goal ?

And, at that point, I do not see how Broadsword will be able to keep justifying covering the costs to keep those Shards up, with so few players actively playing on them....

But oh well, if that is what you guys want, then be it, enjoy seeing the active players on those Shards drop down to a ridicolously low number that it would no longer be possible to justify the costs related to keep those Shards up, and they will need to be shut down, I would imagine.....

At least, that is the way that I see it.

Yes, @popps , he\she gets 1 per hour because she\he kills not enough mobs. 
You need to kill more stuff to get more drops. It shouldt't be paragons or any tough stuff. Rats, slimes , dogs, cant and mages work perfect. You even dont need to kill - just get yourself looting rights.  And once you got drop - Siege Bless it
So we arrange our priorities:
1- kill more stuff
2- loose more when killed (better nothing)
3- move fast

So I see this template as gagrish (flying) or human (JOAT) 20 skiill with any weapon is better than 0. Rats will not hit you. 
with 120 Spellweaving  :  drop fairies everywhere you see a slime , put them on fire , nature fury if it is tougher mob or smb is fighting paragon. Put a reaper if you have nothing to do.  Can kill mobs on roofs.  Can heal , can self-resurrect if needed, have mana shield mastery. No LRC or gear needed. 
100-120 resist: run naked , wear junk from corpses . You have 40 resists and  nobody can take them from you. 
100-120 meditation
100 Focus (all for mana regen , as much as you can stack)
Stats- 125 STR, 125 INT , 10 Dex. Or lower STR and INT according how many powerscrolls you ate. 

other skills- as you wish. Can be hiding\stealth\ninjia . Or magery for mage weapon you loot from mob corpses. 
This way it is possible to earn 3 or more drops per hour. You are dead- go to entrance , resurrect and repeat your journey. Got a drop - go to entrance and exchange. 

Gwen said:

Yes, @ popps , he\she gets 1 per hour because she\he kills not enough mobs. 
You need to kill more stuff to get more drops. It shouldt't be paragons or any tough stuff. Rats, slimes , dogs, cant and mages work perfect. You even dont need to kill - just get yourself looting rights.  And once you got drop - Siege Bless it
So we arrange our priorities:
1- kill more stuff
2- loose more when killed (better nothing)
3- move fast

So I see this template as gagrish (flying) or human (JOAT) 20 skiill with any weapon is better than 0. Rats will not hit you. 
with 120 Spellweaving  :  drop fairies everywhere you see a slime , put them on fire , nature fury if it is tougher mob or smb is fighting paragon. Put a reaper if you have nothing to do.  Can kill mobs on roofs.  Can heal , can self-resurrect if needed, have mana shield mastery. No LRC or gear needed. 
100-120 resist: run naked , wear junk from corpses . You have 40 resists and  nobody can take them from you. 
100-120 meditation
100 Focus (all for mana regen , as much as you can stack)
Stats- 125 STR, 125 INT , 10 Dex. Or lower STR and INT according how many powerscrolls you ate. 

other skills- as you wish. Can be hiding\stealth\ninjia . Or magery for mage weapon you loot from mob corpses. 
This way it is possible to earn 3 or more drops per hour. You are dead- go to entrance , resurrect and repeat your journey. Got a drop - go to entrance and exchange. 

Sure thing BUT, do you agree that, if @Kyronix was to deactivate the "Diminishing Return code" for the Siege and Mugen Ruleset, then things for players on those Shards would improve, at least a little, thus giving them LESS reasons to have to go to Production Shards in order to enjoy these "Treasure of.... "type of PvM Events ?

I mean, farming is NOT an issue on Siege and Mugen, given their Ruleset or, at least, not "such" an issue that it is on Trammel Ruleset, Production Shards.

Therefore, I do not see the point to keep code which was conceived and meant to counter farming on Trammel Ruleset, on Shards like Siege and Mugen which do not have this issue.

Especially, when deactivating such code could help players there, to have a few more drops per hour and, thus, reduce the need to be aggravated by that Ruleset in their gameplay and feel the need to abandon those Shards in order to enjoy these PvM Events.

Also, the cost for the Reward items on Siege and Mugen should, to my opinion, considering the much lower drop rate there, be significantly reduced. Besides, being Siege and Mugen "no Transfer" Shards to and from Production Shards, having a different cost for Reward items for these "Treasures of.... " types of Events, would do no harm at all since items could not be transferred anyways.

It ain't possible, to my opinion, to have a Mirrored Design that was conceived and thought for Trammel ruleset, Production Shards, "flat out alike" be then applied for Siege and Mugen when gameplay (and drop rates) there, are so much different and lower....

@popps diminishing returns occurs when you kill the same type mob over and over.

Being hidden gives you a smaller chance for drops. Does Siege need a bunch of hidden tamers? 

You can teleport onto the roofs of buildings and hide. Where many area spells will not reveal you.

Why don't you let Siege players decide how they want to play.

hi thanks for replays 🙂

Diminishing returns how it works and how long a para stays a para.  Thats the information I was asking for.   

there is a few pieces of good info here that I read ty  🙂

  I am a stealth ninji tamer, I stealth around beginning of the dungeon area and my pet kills stuff, I do not want to change this.  I like seige and the way things are, I have no problem with the rule set, I just don't pvp. 
  I kill slow this way cause when you spend time hiding and sneaking around to get drops trying not to get killed by a pk at the same time i get a drop cause my pet is busy killing something or just did. 

No No the way the events are I like and I enjoy them, if I didn't like it like I said I'd just play on Atlantic in tram.  

bad of sending can't be seige blessed, So I would lose it every time I get pked. 
no recall and gate out of dungeons on seige so have to walk in and walk out front entrance.

Niniji tamer in Wolf form for run speed and a little extra health 🙂


Please don't change anything about seige rule set for these events I don't want them gone.  I like them.  I don't think the devs will have seige events different then the rest of UO. I am not asking for any change.

Some people go to these events on seige also not just me and pkers, I did see one person once and another time I saw another person trying to get drops.  Moments do happen where a pker is busy else were 🙂

sorry for long post again 🙂  Thank you

Goldie said:

I did see one person once and another time I saw another person trying to get drops.  

Wow, I must say that I am impressed at how popular these "Treasures of...." type of Events are on Siege... you saw one person once, and another at some other time and then for the rest pkillers ?

I do not know if it is the extremely deadliness of those PvP ruleset Shards or if it is that these PvM Events are not popular there, but only looking at the participation for even the lowest populated Production Shards, there is definitely more then one player once and another player at some other time on Production Shards... there is multiple people attenting these Event and that, 24/7, on Production Shards...

If things are that bad on Siege, with such a scarce participation, it looks to me that something must be wrong otherwise, one would imagine, the participation of players to the Event, also there, would be much higher as what you describe...

But if you like it that way, more power to you, that does not mean that it is necessarily good for the Shard.... participation is what makes it good for the Shard and helps to pay for the running costs, not emptiness.... me thinks.

@popps the way you want to change things on Siege, someone might actually think you played there.  Now you find out all those paragraphs of players killing everybody were false..

Sometimes I wonder if he plays any shard has anyone ever met him in game 

McDougle said:

Sometimes I wonder if he plays any shard has anyone ever met him in game 

He plays the boards, not the game. 

@popps if all the pvm players get together, they can defend themselves from pks. Then they dont need to hide. This game was meant to be multiplayer, and seige forces that further by limiting 1 char per account.

Let's just leave Siege the F88k alone, it's fine just like it is.

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Let's just leave Siege the F88k alone, it's fine just like it is.

A Fing men

If you do not want to play in Fel only no insurance then stay the hell out and leave SP alone.