While We're On The Topic Of Fixing Game Play That Favours Scripting/Botting/Multiboxing: EM EVENTS

username 2019-09-10 22:08 #0

With Blackthorn Dungeon being fixed and IDOCs coming up next, how about EM events @Mesanna ; ?

It's no surprise that since legendary farming is long done the multiboxer/RMT'ers have moved to EM events. They are being farmed HARDER than any other part of the game by REAL MONEY traders. Take a look around Luna Atlantic NE corner and you'll see houses that put out 5-10 of the SAME event items every few days. No way one person is legitimately acquiring this quantity of EM event items.

I propose that EM event items going forward be made either shard bound OR account bound.

username 2019-09-11 01:15 #1

I will add that all items would be 100% drop rate or clicky so everyone would get one.

Fortis 2019-09-11 01:48 #2

Not 100 pourcent shard bound but at least 50 pourcent so some event item from a specific shard stay there not going all to atl

popps 2019-09-11 09:12 #3

How about, make the EM Events drops be TOTALLY random, regardless of the damage done AND, Endless Journey characters are prevented from being able to get any drop ?

So, not only any and all players could get a drop, BUT, they would have to necessarily use accounts for which a monthly subscription is paid and, thus, resources provided to Ultima Online....

Sure, scripters could still run multiple PAID FOR accounts to increase their chance at a drop but at least, these accounts would be providing an income to Ultima Online....

Marge 2019-09-11 09:38 #4

What Can and Endless Journey account not do?

Endless Journey accounts may not own a house, be co-owned to a house or access containers, safe logout or stacks of items within a public house if friended to one. They may not use mailboxes, operate player vendors or place auction safes. The may not launch a boat, may not mount pack animals with items in their pack.

They may not gain, use or be protected by Justice virtue; receive Rewards, Monster Kill Points, Virtue Points or Power Scrolls from Champion Spawns; gain occupation points in active VvV towns; Attack EM Event creatures or gain EM Event Items; vote in Town Elections or create a guild

Characters may not bribe bulk order npcs, harvest colored ore or logs, mine sand or stone or receive Feluccan 2x bonus.

MissE 2019-09-11 10:53 #5

AS per the title, how about we fix

LUMBERJACKING
MINING

so that those of use who actually get out there and do it manually, the way it was intended, can actually find some higher end resources.

It is farcical that you devote 100 points to each of these skills, yet any character with a boat and cannons can get more high end resources than a character with the skills. And now any character doing a low level TMap.

It is about time that instead of the change that allowed the scripters to have free reign on getting high end resources due to their being unattended 24/7 scripting, so it has become that now they are the only ones who can find the resources that they put it back to how it was. At least when you chopped or mined in FEL player justice would fix those bots hitting the 'known' trees, now there is NO JUSTICE at all as those of use who have miners/lumberjackers don't even bother anymore but are forced to buy these off the scripters.

As a manual non cheating player, I used to get 10 times the required resources before they changed it than I do now. Now unless I buy from the cheats I can't fill bods. Prior to the change I always had plenty of resources for these functions and some to sell.

This was the worst change ever made, basically killed off two professions.

popps 2019-09-11 15:13 #6

One fix that would "magically" fix all these issues lamented by players and many more, would perhaps be fixing for good the ability of players to "script", worse if AFK, using Third Party programs....

If this ability was to be dealt with once and for all, and stopped for good to be possible in Ultima Online, "magically" we would no longer hear about issues here and issues there in Ultima Online...

I mean, it is possible to "patch up" IDOCs here or EM Events there or something else on a case by case basis, but, I would imagine, it takes much more effort and work being them multiple issues...

Addressing the scripting in Ultima Online as a whole, instead, would, I imagine, deal with all of those issue at once....

Just a thought.....

Tim 2019-09-11 18:34 #7

Please Please stop calling for a fix to scripting and the use of 3rd party programs unless you can come up with some programming strategy that at least has a chance of working.

Yes it is a major problem but I can't see a solution that has a realistic chance of working. Apparently neither can the programers at Broadsword.

From my limited programming knowledge the only solution would require a core rewrite preventing the UO from interacting with any outside programs. And we all know how well that would go over. If you allow one add on program how do you stop others from using the same hole in the fire walls.

Cetric 2019-09-12 00:50 #8

Unpopular opinion:. Everything that comes from a champ spawn, an event, a farmable mob... Should be shard bound.

Tyrath 2019-09-12 01:02 #9

Cetric said:

Unpopular opinion:. Everything that comes from a champ spawn, an event, a farmable mob... Should be shard bound.

I am of the opinion that the only thing that should allowed in a transfer are soul stones, stabled pets, and vet rewards Oh and of course your character. Unless its is vet rewards the bank and pack must be empty. That would stop RMT pretty much in its tracks.

Freelsy 2019-09-12 03:44 #10

Cetric said:

Unpopular opinion:. Everything that comes from a champ spawn, an event, a farmable mob... Should be shard bound.

You're not wrong

Sliss 2019-09-12 20:44 #11

Tyrath said:

Cetric said:

Unpopular opinion:. Everything that comes from a champ spawn, an event, a farmable mob... Should be shard bound.

I am of the opinion that the only thing that should allowed in a transfer are soul stones, stabled pets, and vet rewards Oh and of course your character. Unless its is vet rewards the bank and pack must be empty. That would stop RMT pretty much in its tracks.

I am pretty sure it will make things worse, much worse. If you remove the transfer, it will make it much easier for any of the whales to monopolize all trade on any of the smaller shards. They try this now, there is always a danger of someone to start importing cheaper goods from Atlantic. You remove intershard trade, and a single person can be vacuuming up everything on the shard and re-listing it at higher prices.
And then, guess what is the only alternative left? That's right - RMT.

MissE 2019-09-13 02:28 #12

Sliss said:

Tyrath said:

Cetric said:

Unpopular opinion:. Everything that comes from a champ spawn, an event, a farmable mob... Should be shard bound.

I am of the opinion that the only thing that should allowed in a transfer are soul stones, stabled pets, and vet rewards Oh and of course your character. Unless its is vet rewards the bank and pack must be empty. That would stop RMT pretty much in its tracks.

I am pretty sure it will make things worse, much worse. If you remove the transfer, it will make it much easier for any of the whales to monopolize all trade on any of the smaller shards. They try this now, there is always a danger of someone to start importing cheaper goods from Atlantic. You remove intershard trade, and a single person can be vacuuming up everything on the shard and re-listing it at higher prices.
And then, guess what is the only alternative left? That's right - RMT.

Totally disagree, it will take it back to how it was BEFORE all these transfers. That didn't happen back then, in fact trade on the smaller shards was 1000% more robust than it is now. Shard Transfer shields totally destroyed what economy there was left on smaller shards that for a while had just those who could afford transfer tokens monopolising trade, the transfer shields just exemplified that.

The small shards will deal with anyone who tries to monopolise trade buy just not buying off that person. A simple fix. We had a guy once who kept trying to monopolise bags of sending by buying them all off the local vendors, upping the price and then trying to resell. Solution was easy we just keep stocking and stocking and stocking increasing our prices a touch each time and NOT buying any of his, til he ran out of energy trying to continually buy all our stuff, and frankly we made a motza while he was doing it.

Tyrath 2019-09-13 02:49 #13

MissE pretty much nailed it. The RMTs thrive on transfers their entire systems are built around being able to deliver anything to any shard within an hour. If all they can transfer are vet rewards, soul stones, pets and I would even go equipped items on the paper doll. Their entire business model would be wrecked. Transfers were a BAD idea to start with that has not gotten any better with age.

Pawain 2019-09-13 02:50 #14

MissE said:

Totally disagree, it will take it back to how it was BEFORE all these transfers. That didn't happen back then, in fact trade on the smaller shards was 1000% more robust than it is now. Shard Transfer shields totally destroyed what economy there was left on smaller shards that for a while had just those who could afford transfer tokens monopolising trade, the transfer shields just exemplified that.

Smaller shards had 1000% more population and there were no platinums. If smaller shards had the population they used to, we would not need to transfer to get basic items.

Transfers did not cause the whole population of UO to drop. If we did not have transfer shields the population would have dropped more because we would have to live on Atlantic instead of just visit.

Tyrath 2019-09-13 03:05 #15

Pawain said:

MissE said:

Totally disagree, it will take it back to how it was BEFORE all these transfers. That didn't happen back then, in fact trade on the smaller shards was 1000% more robust than it is now. Shard Transfer shields totally destroyed what economy there was left on smaller shards that for a while had just those who could afford transfer tokens monopolising trade, the transfer shields just exemplified that.

Smaller shards had 1000% more population and there were no platinums. If smaller shards had the population they used to, we would not need to transfer to get basic items.

Transfers did not cause the whole population of UO to drop. If we did not have transfer shields the population would have dropped more because we would have to live on Atlantic instead of just visit.

Except you don't have to transfer to get basic items or even high end items. I have gotten all of my scrolls on low pop shards, 4 minax sandals, a dozen or so cameos, slithers, crimmys, and everything else I need. Might take a bit of time and GASP actually playing the game instead of bank sitting but everything other than shard specific stuff is right there for the taking. About the only thing I use my Atlantic shields for are sending characters there to retire to free up a slot for new character. I can't even remember the last time I transferred anything even a character back from atl. BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING ON ATL that is not available on any other shard. ......... Well except for all the stuff farmed on low pop shards and xfrd to atl to be redistributed back to the low pop shards via RMT or folks visiting atl to buy there what was probably farmed on their home shard to start with at much inflated prices of course.

Sliss 2019-09-13 16:40 #16

Pawain said:

MissE said:

Totally disagree, it will take it back to how it was BEFORE all these transfers. That didn't happen back then, in fact trade on the smaller shards was 1000% more robust than it is now. Shard Transfer shields totally destroyed what economy there was left on smaller shards that for a while had just those who could afford transfer tokens monopolising trade, the transfer shields just exemplified that.

Smaller shards had 1000% more population and there were no platinums. If smaller shards had the population they used to, we would not need to transfer to get basic items.

Transfers did not cause the whole population of UO to drop. If we did not have transfer shields the population would have dropped more because we would have to live on Atlantic instead of just visit.

This^^ The reason smaller shards did not have monopolies prior to shields is the same reason Atlantic does not have them now - too much competition. However, the population is a shadow of it's former self, so it would be very easy and almost risk free to completely lock down a shard. And there are plenty of players with enough capital to do it.

Sliss 2019-09-13 16:54 #17

Tyrath said:
Except you don't have to transfer to get basic items or even high end items. I have gotten all of my scrolls on low pop shards, 4 minax sandals, a dozen or so cameos, slithers, crimmys, and everything else I need. Might take a bit of time and GASP actually playing the game instead of bank sitting but everything other than shard specific stuff is right there for the taking. About the only thing I use my Atlantic shields for are sending characters there to retire to free up a slot for new character. I can't even remember the last time I transferred anything even a character back from atl. BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING ON ATL that is not available on any other shard. ......... Well except for all the stuff farmed on low pop shards and xfrd to atl to be redistributed back to the low pop shards via RMT or folks visiting atl to buy there what was probably farmed on their home shard to start with at much inflated prices of course.

That "bit of time" to get all the scrolls and cameos is years for any normal player. Which is way more than most today's players are willing to invest.
I think once we have the new vendors, we will see a back flow of items from the saturated Atlantic market to the smaller shards.
BTW, I am arguing for free trade here despite the fact that I am still many years away from the shields of my own, and I also think that shard shields were one of the 2 worst decisions ever made by the Dev team. I just think that once the damage has been done, you need more trade, not less to fix it.

Tyrath 2019-09-17 14:07 #18

Sliss said:

Tyrath said:
Except you don't have to transfer to get basic items or even high end items. I have gotten all of my scrolls on low pop shards, 4 minax sandals, a dozen or so cameos, slithers, crimmys, and everything else I need. Might take a bit of time and GASP actually playing the game instead of bank sitting but everything other than shard specific stuff is right there for the taking. About the only thing I use my Atlantic shields for are sending characters there to retire to free up a slot for new character. I can't even remember the last time I transferred anything even a character back from atl. BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING ON ATL that is not available on any other shard. ......... Well except for all the stuff farmed on low pop shards and xfrd to atl to be redistributed back to the low pop shards via RMT or folks visiting atl to buy there what was probably farmed on their home shard to start with at much inflated prices of course.

That "bit of time" to get all the scrolls and cameos is years for any normal player. Which is way more than most today's players are willing to invest.
I think once we have the new vendors, we will see a back flow of items from the saturated Atlantic market to the smaller shards.
BTW, I am arguing for free trade here despite the fact that I am still many years away from the shields of my own, and I also think that shard shields were one of the 2 worst decisions ever made by the Dev team. I just think that once the damage has been done, you need more trade, not less to fix it.

LOL and I will argue for heavy limitations on what can transfer despite the fact that I have a lot of shard shields. I don't like transfers in general as they had a very negative impact when first introduced and that was amplified by the shields. Giving overall the wealthiest players 12 free transfers per shield per year was not very well thought out. That being said even if you don't like the concept and can pick shields, you would be a fool not to. Although the garden sheds of late have been getting one of my vet picks.

I am hoping the new vendor type will keep at least a little more stuff on their home shards since we won't be going bankrupt putting higher end stuff on vendors.

Cookie 2019-09-17 17:24 #19

I do get why these posts are so common, these activities, and the greed that drives certain players, are the Bane of this game.

UO is an awesome game all round, but the whole RMT thing, leading to incredibly transparent greed driven game styles without any sort of counter-action against them, have been driving a wedge between Players and Developers for a long time.

EM Events. IDOCS, Script Gathering/Farming.

I've discussed this for a long time myself - my preferred option is one of the most controversial - I think it is time to delete Trammel and put the game back to how it was when it was at its best, and how it was meant to be. I strongly believe, the real players would appreciate it. I get that is controversial, but it fixes everything.

I understand why people also mention removing shard shields, though I actually quite like this ability.

I am hopeful that the new Commission Style Vendors will help smaller shards economy a bit. I do plan to bring vendors into action myself.

But something does have to be done about the sheer greed and corruption that is so visibly on display within the game.

Garth_Grey 2019-09-17 18:05 #20

How does deleting Trammel fix this ? You seem to think that every bad deed back in the day was remedied with murder. I"m pretty sure we weren't all running around red, so removing trammel so Player Justice can prevail won't stop it.

Cookie 2019-09-17 18:16 #21

Garth_Grey said:

How does deleting Trammel fix this ? You seem to think that every bad deed back in the day was remedied with murder. I"m pretty sure we weren't all running around red, so removing trammel so Player Justice can prevail won't stop it.

Player Justice does work. Especially with the absence of GM's etc. The game was of course new in those days, and I don't even remember Scripting, or half of these problems existing? Duping bugs did exist.

You can stop scripting, botting and multi-clienting by killing them. Players will not leave their characters unattended for hours if they are freely findable and killable. They will not attempt to control 5 characters at once only being able to control 1 at a time, while 4 are being killed.

I would even point you to the evidence of your own shard below, 🙂

Your own shard - Siege, is not suffering from any of the issues that plague production shards. If I was feeling even more extreme, I'd say delete all shards except Siege, as it is the only one that works properly!

Max_Blackoak said:
@ Mesanna @ Bleak @ Kyronix
this is clearly an illegal program/scripting issue first, a Trammel issue second.
Idocs under Felucca ruleset are perfectly fine the way they are now. Packanimals won't live long at a fel idoc, neither will unattended or naked characters.

Please keep that in mind with whatever fix you're implementing. I like my Felucca (or rather Siege Perilous) idoc battles, they're one of the only things that ever bring out people lately.

Sliss 2019-09-18 05:08 #22

Cookie said:

I do get why these posts are so common, these activities, and the greed that drives certain players, are the Bane of this game.
UO is an awesome game all round, but the whole RMT thing, leading to incredibly transparent greed driven game styles without any sort of counter-action against them, have been driving a wedge between Players and Developers for a long time.
EM Events. IDOCS, Script Gathering/Farming.
I've discussed this for a long time myself - my preferred option is one of the most controversial - I think it is time to delete Trammel and put the game back to how it was when it was at its best, and how it was meant to be. I strongly believe, the real players would appreciate it. I get that is controversial, but it fixes everything.
I understand why people also mention removing shard shields, though I actually quite like this ability.
I am hopeful that the new Commission Style Vendors will help smaller shards economy a bit. I do plan to bring vendors into action myself.
But something does have to be done about the sheer greed and corruption that is so visibly on display within the game.

I think one common problem with this invasion of complaint threads is spite and envy. There is nothing wrong with greed. 99% of people on these forums are greedy and there is nothing wrong with it either. Just as there is nothing wrong with a gameplay where the end goal is the accumulation of toys.
And you are right that your solution fixes everything. It fixes everything in the way that there won't be a game left to fix if you remove Trammel. The "real players" (both of them) are not enough to keep the lights on.

Nikard 2019-09-18 15:36 #23

This thread makes my brain hurt.

OP ; A player can't have 5 of them? Wtf? Theres usually 2-3 rare collectors that buy multiples of each at 50-100m per at the end of every event. They don't even do the event.

Fix cheating? How? Just ban everyone YOU point a finger at?

Remove trammel? You've been beating that horse for 20 years. Get over it.

RMT? Shard shields the problem? WTF? You don't think someone would just pay 20$ for a transfer token to move $1000s of items for RMT purposes? Get real.

Im glad they don't take posts like this seriously. Cetric is the only one here who has made a valid suggestion about shard bound-ing the most valuable content that gets endlessly farmed.

username 2019-09-18 21:13 #24

Nikard said:

This thread makes my brain hurt.

OP ; A player can't have 5 of them? Wtf? Theres usually 2-3 rare collectors that buy multiples of each at 50-100m per at the end of every event. They don't even do the event.

Yes, those players exist and in my context those are clearly not the players I'm talking about at all..... I am speaking of the two real life RMT career EM event multiboxers that both run 12-20 characters on every shard at every event whose sole purpose is to abuse the system for personal monetary gain.

Do you understand now? Or do you need further explanation?

Nikard 2019-09-19 05:29 #25

username said:

Nikard said:

This thread makes my brain hurt.

OP ; A player can't have 5 of them? Wtf? Theres usually 2-3 rare collectors that buy multiples of each at 50-100m per at the end of every event. They don't even do the event.

Yes, those players exist and in my context those are clearly not the players I'm talking about at all..... I am speaking of the two real life RMT career EM event multiboxers that both run 12-20 characters on every shard at every event whose sole purpose is to abuse the system for personal monetary gain.

Do you understand now? Or do you need further explanation?

What technology are you using to conclusively identify 20 simultaneous accounts as the same player?

username 2019-09-20 02:41 #26

Nikard said:

username said:

Nikard said:

This thread makes my brain hurt.

OP ; A player can't have 5 of them? Wtf? Theres usually 2-3 rare collectors that buy multiples of each at 50-100m per at the end of every event. They don't even do the event.

Yes, those players exist and in my context those are clearly not the players I'm talking about at all..... I am speaking of the two real life RMT career EM event multiboxers that both run 12-20 characters on every shard at every event whose sole purpose is to abuse the system for personal monetary gain.

Do you understand now? Or do you need further explanation?

What technology are you using to conclusively identify 20 simultaneous accounts as the same player?

Lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb-bFQTX-Y8
The technology is called having a brain.

But yea this guy is totally running 12-20 accounts at each event to just end up buying them after the event so he can resell 5-10 items on his vendor every event. 4d chess plays right there!

LOL!

Nikard 2019-09-20 07:45 #27

username said:

Nikard said:

username said:

Nikard said:

This thread makes my brain hurt.

OP ; A player can't have 5 of them? Wtf? Theres usually 2-3 rare collectors that buy multiples of each at 50-100m per at the end of every event. They don't even do the event.

Yes, those players exist and in my context those are clearly not the players I'm talking about at all..... I am speaking of the two real life RMT career EM event multiboxers that both run 12-20 characters on every shard at every event whose sole purpose is to abuse the system for personal monetary gain.

Do you understand now? Or do you need further explanation?

What technology are you using to conclusively identify 20 simultaneous accounts as the same player?

Lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb-bFQTX-Y8
The technology is called having a brain.

But yea this guy is totally running 12-20 accounts at each event to just end up buying them after the event so he can resell 5-10 items on his vendor every event. 4d chess plays right there!

LOL!

So you want anybody you call a "cheater" to be ban? That is what I'm taking away from this. Zero evidence of wrong-doing.

Rorschach 2019-09-20 09:03 #28

Stay topical, please.

username 2019-09-20 14:05 #29

Nikard said:
So you want anybody you call a "cheater" to be ban? That is what I'm taking away from this. Zero evidence of wrong-doing.

-> Asks for proof of a guy playing 12-20 accounts
-> Shows video proof
-> 'YOU HAVE NO PROOF'

k guy
k

Vladimir 2019-09-20 16:31 #30

Another perfect post, that shows that nothing will be done.

We know who is doing, we have their house locations, we seen them post the rares for sale, a min after event on stratics, they normally have 4,5,6 drops themselves and nothing will be done.

popps 2019-09-20 18:07 #31

Vladimir said:

Another perfect post, that shows that nothing will be done.

We know who is doing, we have their house locations, we seen them post the rares for sale, a min after event on stratics, they normally have 4,5,6 drops themselves and nothing will be done.

Simple fix ?

STOP buying any rares in UO.....

Just let them sit on their "rare" items and have noone to sell them to....

As long as there will be players buying those items, players will do whatever they can to get them to then sell them for absurd amounts of in game gold...

Stop buying those items, and that market will dissolve like snow in a hot sunny day.....

While We're On The Topic Of Fixing Game Play That Favours Scripting/Botting/Multiboxing: EM EVENTS

What Can and Endless Journey account not do?

They may not gain, use or be protected by Justice virtue; receive Rewards, Monster Kill Points, Virtue Points or Power Scrolls from Champion Spawns; gain occupation points in active VvV towns; Attack EM Event creatures or gain EM Event Items; vote in Town Elections or create a guild

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