Evasion, splinter and pvp problems

Evasion needs to go away in PvP or be heavily nerfed such as just being a damage reducer rather than avoiding all damage.  As it sits basically everyone pvping is running evade, it's ridiculous.  It's born out of neccesity from splinter dumps, but it's watering down PvP since everyone is running high defense high offense characters capable of splintering consistently.  Leave it unchanged for pvm damage, I understand it is heavilyu by sampires and that's fine.  Have any changes be reflective of "player damage".

The slow  effect of splinter needs to not be chainable such as adding a long 30s+ immunity, and should not double with focus attack.  (60% splinter is too much) and being held walking in place thru 3, 5, 7 straight splinters in front of a group is unreal.  No wonder everyone has parry right?  It's a constant complaint you hear from users("I wanna play a fun char but everything I make needs bushido parry").  

Shatter pots should have a longer cool down and break less potions

Skill jewel swapping shouldn't be a thing.  Simple fix, have it take 15+seconds for your +skill to apply when you put on +skill items.  It's basically test center out there, go on foot set ninjitsu 900 animal form away.  You shouldn't be able to fit evasion, animal form, and offensive abilities in every character you make.  


I realize this has been posted several times with no changes occuring, but worth a shot id say.  As it sits all of PvP is basicly one group trying to capitalize on the other group with some splinters spamming while everyone runs evade to try to live thru such dumps.  When the vast majority of characters are running something specific you know there is a reason, either it's overpowered, it's forced into neccesity, or both.

There are very simple fixes for large scale problems.  Take a few minutes and consider it in the next pub or something.



Another long term discussion should be a vvv update, or more more specifically, giving the players something to fight over.  People PvP to PvP all day, every day but the fight over goals like champ spawns has been lacking for some time.  Vvv rewards are nothing we strive for today.  Add different mounts besides red and blue horses, identify useful items for town or dungeon control, you know the drill.  There's been great ideas over the years and nothing makes it to the braintrust 

Uo still has plenty of pvpers left to make some simple changes to make it a lot better. I agree with cetric and I too was about to post atleast about back to back splinters...There has been times where I get splintered 4-6 times in a row that is just sickening. Why can you not back to back para shot or mortal someone but you can on the most powerful stat on a weapon in the game??!!! FIX this stuff please! When you got so many people playing this server who are from different home shards and have worse ping then most it’s horrible getting splintered over and over .Some simple ideas are do not let focus attack skill affect splinter make 30% be the maximum. There literally needs to be a cool off period just like bone breaker make it so you are immune to splinter for 30-60 seconds because sitting still by 10 guys holding up a spell and living is really rare... For evasion I think the best idea would be any damage it evades it only cuts it in half just like mana shield and I believe it should take the damage it evades from your mana pool. Also there should be a 45 second cool down this is broke in pvp and needs a serious fixing.

Cetric said:

Evasion needs to go away in PvP or be heavily nerfed such as just being a damage reducer rather than avoiding all damage.  As it sits basically everyone pvping is running evade, it's ridiculous.  It's born out of neccesity from splinter dumps, but it's watering down PvP since everyone is running high defense high offense characters capable of splintering consistently.  Leave it unchanged for pvm damage, I understand it is heavilyu by sampires and that's fine.  Have any changes be reflective of "player damage".

The slow  effect of splinter needs to not be chainable such as adding a long 30s+ immunity, and should not double with focus attack.  (60% splinter is too much) and being held walking in place thru 3, 5, 7 straight splinters in front of a group is unreal.  No wonder everyone has parry right?  It's a constant complaint you hear from users("I wanna play a fun char but everything I make needs bushido parry").  

Shatter pots should have a longer cool down and break less potions

Skill jewel swapping shouldn't be a thing.  Simple fix, have it take 15+seconds for your +skill to apply when you put on +skill items.  It's basically test center out there, go on foot set ninjitsu 900 animal form away.  You shouldn't be able to fit evasion, animal form, and offensive abilities in every character you make.  


I realize this has been posted several times with no changes occuring, but worth a shot id say.  As it sits all of PvP is basicly one group trying to capitalize on the other group with some splinters spamming while everyone runs evade to try to live thru such dumps.  When the vast majority of characters are running something specific you know there is a reason, either it's overpowered, it's forced into neccesity, or both.

There are very simple fixes for large scale problems.  Take a few minutes and consider it in the next pub or something.



Another long term discussion should be a vvv update, or more more specifically, giving the players something to fight over.  People PvP to PvP all day, every day but the fight over goals like champ spawns has been lacking for some time.  Vvv rewards are nothing we strive for today.  Add different mounts besides red and blue horses, identify useful items for town or dungeon control, you know the drill.  There's been great ideas over the years and nothing makes it to the braintrust 

i agree with all,but for the shatter pop they can remove it from the game or but a ways longer time andadd a time of immunity to not have more person throws you of shatter pot 

Cetric said:

heard a good evasion fix - apply the chiv casting skill thing to it

if you have a magic school (magery/mystic/chiv/spellweaving/necro/eval/focus/spiritspeak) greater than 69.9, evasion is only 50% as functional.  This would allow a straight dexer to continue to have the full advantage of evasion as they ever had, but hurt the hybrid concept.

its a good fix for evision

I agree with the majority of the points Cetric is bringing up.  60% splinter is over powered, especially when you can stack it back to back. Evasion/parry does need to be changed as its impeding template diversity in the pvp community. The difference in speed and maneuverability between classic client and enhanced is a huge flaw in the game. Why should the people who have been playing classic client since the beginning be penalized in such a profound way? 4/6 chivalry is incredibly over powered in pvp. It is near impossible to kill someone 1v1 who has a fast connection and 4/6 chivalry. Shatter pots should just be abolished. They literally serve no purpose and are only used by people who intend to aggravate and troll others. Dismount ability also needs to have a cool down on the player that has been dismounted. You shouldn't be able to be dismounted back to back immediately after you have remounted.

Cetric said:

heard a good evasion fix - apply the chiv casting skill thing to it

if you have a magic school (magery/mystic/chiv/spellweaving/necro/eval/focus/spiritspeak) greater than 69.9, evasion is only 50% as functional.  This would allow a straight dexer to continue to have the full advantage of evasion as they ever had, but hurt the hybrid concept.

So it's really just a nerf to mages- No thanks.  Add ninjitsu to that list and i might be open to it to add a weakness to the template. 

Otherwise I would like to see evasion have a cap of how much damage can be evaded for everyone.  1. Either evade up to XXX damage or 2. Reduce damage by xxx% up to XXX amount.  (The xxx's would need to be figured out).

Bill_Cosby said:

Uo still has plenty of pvpers left to make some simple changes to make it a lot better. I agree with cetric and I too was about to post atleast about back to back splinters...There has been times where I get splintered 4-6 times in a row that is just sickening. Why can you not back to back para shot or mortal someone but you can on the most powerful stat on a weapon in the game??!!! FIX this stuff please! When you got so many people playing this server who are from different home shards and have worse ping then most it’s horrible getting splintered over and over .Some simple ideas are do not let focus attack skill affect splinter make 30% be the maximum. There literally needs to be a cool off period just like bone breaker make it so you are immune to splinter for 30-60 seconds because sitting still by 10 guys holding up a spell and living is really rare... For evasion I think the best idea would be any damage it evades it only cuts it in half just like mana shield and I believe it should take the damage it evades from your mana pool. Also there should be a 45 second cool down this is broke in pvp and needs a serious fixing.

I suggested this back when they asked for suggestions and said, go ahead and splinter (bleed) for a second time but give the slow walk an immunity.  They said they would implement it- and completely missed the concept.... UO Devs..

Chea said:

I agree with the majority of the points Cetric is bringing up.  60% splinter is over powered, especially when you can stack it back to back. Evasion/parry does need to be changed as its impeding template diversity in the pvp community. The difference in speed and maneuverability between classic client and enhanced is a huge flaw in the game. Why should the people who have been playing classic client since the beginning be penalized in such a profound way? 4/6 chivalry is incredibly over powered in pvp. It is near impossible to kill someone 1v1 who has a fast connection and 4/6 chivalry. Shatter pots should just be abolished. They literally serve no purpose and are only used by people who intend to aggravate and troll others. Dismount ability also needs to have a cool down on the player that has been dismounted. You shouldn't be able to be dismounted back to back immediately after you have remounted.

Chiv is ok if they tweaked it.  Remove curse is by far the most overpowered spell.  It can remove any and all curses and a .25 second cast.  That needs to be slowed and remove ONE curse at a time.  Also the cure is super fast and cures every time if you have high karma.  Cleansing winds and arch cure can fail lethal... but chiv at a .25 second cast doesn't?  That  needs to be slower and have a chance to fail and then I think chiv would be a lot more in line.

Shatter's are a terrible idea and who ever came up with them should be fired.

I don't agree with the dismount immunity at all.  

Let's throw nether cyclone hitting groups of people onto the list of things that need to be fixed.  The devs didn't respond to that one.

Also, Wall of stone- you should only be able to cast 2 at a time.  That will stop the relative tile abuse and not take away the cool things you can do with WoS.

I think Bushido is 100% fine. They already changed the evade timer to be longer then prior its a full 15 seconds to recast now. Bushido has also been the same in the game for a very long time. Templates being nerfed and the lack of viable templates available has cause everyone to turn to bushido on their characters thus causing this complaint which is BS. 

Splinter is op and needs a timer set so back to back splinters don't happen. Similar to mortal for example it cannot be restacked for 8 seconds I think that something similar to that would be appropriate. 

Shatter pots need to be removed from pvp in whole,  horrible idea to add to the game to begin with. 

Nether cyclone shouldn't hit a area of people while not splitting damage just like meteor swam does there should be 0 difference.

Lets add to the list teleporting and walling relative tiles. People now have macros with programs (Razor,Steam) that allow them to lay walls 100% in front of someone every time and also teleport 1 tile to a person to hit them 100% of the time. This needs to be fixed. 

There is no viable template diversity left in the game. You're stuck either playing a parry mage or a bush dexxer. Tammers suck now, Archers have been nerfed to shit, and 1 tile dexxers are now gonna have a splinter timer leaving them handicap  again. Why can we not toggle specs why holding or casting spells? Why do we have to have tactics to use specs??? Changing those 2 things make many templates better and bring more viable templates back to be played . The only character youll find in game in the current meta without parry on it is a archer (which suck and are played by very few) It seems like buffing parry combined with the nerfs put in have caused everyone to go bushido parry. Its the only thing that's all around viable with what left to play. No one complained about it until all these bad changes are put into the pvp.  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. 

 Instead of nerfing everything how about you make other stuff better? Give other skills buffs to make them more viable. Bring more diversity to the game. When all you guys do if nerf nerf nerf xxxx it makes the playing field very 1 sided well if this is the only good thing left to play well everyones going to play it. Then after a few months of it people get tired of it call it op and call for more nerfs. Its a never ending cycle of stupidity on the players end and the developers end. 


Stop dumbing down the game and make UO great again.


*EDITED BY RORSCHACH*

I said all these same things about parry, evade, splinter years ago.  All you people said pvp was perfectly balanced and nothing was wrong.  So funny to see you finally catch up to what I said years ago.  I think it was mainly people took advantage of these things til other people started using them back against them and now its a issue.   Hilarious

I believe splintering is an issue as well. With the lack of cooldown of the chance of getting slowed(I don't know why they would ever put a cooldown on the bleed effect as that was never the issue). I also believe that Focus attack should not focus the splintering ability or strictly cap it at 30%. It is a little stupid to be getting attacked by a deathstriker and 2 bushido parry ninja mages that have spell channeling 30% weapons(60 when focused attacked.) 60% chance to slow the target is an issue as it leaves many people open for sync drops while slowed. 
A proposed resolution I have for this is to allow splinters to be cured by eating an apple(as sleep is for mystics.) then set a cooldown on splintering (Just sleep is as well) on the slow effect. 
Another proposed resolution I have is to remove the 100% increase that focus attack provides, capping splintering at 30%.

Evasion is being abused quite a lot as well, to strictly combat the splinter dumps as multiple people will over 200 damage while you are slowed(evasion makes immunity to all of that.) I strongly believe evasion should not be changed if no changes to splintering are to occur. 

Lastly, Something needs to happen with the jewel swap/skill swaps. Select few people instantly swapping 60-80 skill points with jewels and armor to their situation. IE swords parry dexxer(with ninja/parry jewels) swapping over 80 points of archery to be able to moving shot down. Bushido Evasion mages swapping to ninjutsu to animal form. 

Lastly, I don't think there is a solution to this but the target relative is also being abused. Not only by wall of stone, but with teleport. Teleporting 2 tiles in front of a target then immediately targeting focus attack with 60% chance to splinter a target is just absurd. 


I understand splintering was added to revive the melee characters as they weren't very powerful, but the ability added by dexxers is being abused by 820+ skill point hybrid mages( and sorry UO devs the brilliant discord change is literally the most worthless thing you could have implemented to fix this.) 

I believe with the fix on focus attack and splintering will still keep dexxers around, while hybrid mages still roam without all the extra stuff needed to function and compete. 


On a side note I do agree with crunch, maybe nerfing isn't the answer and adding new spice is, but it seems UO is not at all interested in adding anything remotely new to pvp, and focused on adding house vendors, fishing, or uo store items on a weekly basis while pvp goes untouched for years at a time.  

A change is needed of some sort and I hope the UO team sees this and realizes the real issues at hand that are neglected. 

@Kyronix @Bleak any proposed days on going over this in game or is anything going to happen?

I agree with Cetric for the most part.  
1. The shatter pots are just for trolling.  They should be drastically nerfed.
2.  Maybe make evasion have to have a secondary skill to work at all, like anatomy.  This would cut down on some of the crazy hybrid templates.  I say this even though most of us need evasion to stay alive as everyone is crazy fast.  
3.  We need to address the suit swapping that is going on.  People can press one button and change their gear to be more of a necro or have ninja and so on.  Delay the suit swap ability to like thirty seconds.
4.  ADDRESS SPLINTERING!  You shouldn't be able to splinter back to back at all.  Set a timer like Mortal.  Also, focus attack allows for 60% splints!!!??  Maybe change it so focus attack doesn't proc with splinter (doesn't raise the % of splinter).  MAKE SPLINTER LIKE MORTAL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All we want is balance in game and make it more fun to run around and play.  At the moment you have little trolls shattering everyone in ninja form and them smoke bombing.  Guilds that roll with several 60% splinter (with focus attack) characters waiting for a splinter and then everyone dumping hard.  Characters being made with mage, eval, mystic, focus, parry, bushido, resist, weapon skill for bush (50), and ninja.  Hits really hard, can evade, and can ninja.  They can do with with skill swapping jewels.  Too powerful.

You basically have to have bush/parry to stay alive as a lot of us are playing from opposite coasts (being that ATL is only real shard with pvp) and you have a disadvantage with speed. Talking about speed, the difference of 2D and 3D clients is massive.  Can we close that gap?  Some of us have been playing for 20 years and love the 2D graphics.  But, we shouldn't have to play at another disadvantage.  Maybe if the speed gap was adjusted, we can use less defensive templates and open it up for more fun templates.  Update 2D code?

Some of this stuff wouldn't make sense to someone that doesn't pvp.  Please look to our ideas as we are the base that actually pvps.

Thank you for considering!!!  

Splinter needs to be addressed.it either needs to be completely removed or either nerfed in one way or another. Can either go one or two ways. If the bleed/slow walk stays in. It needs to have a timer where if stays, another character cannot splinter for certain amount of time. Also it does not need focus attack ability where there is 60% a splinter goes off. 

Evade is fine. Only way to survive of spell dump from 5+ people. 

Shatters should of been taken out yesterday. 

Bring back old faction colors. 

Make UO great again. 

If there is something to nerf in pvp its definetly Evasion in pvp, one button invicibility for 6 sec. Maybe it could guarantee like 100% evade on first spell received, then it start haaving a diminushing return, 75% chance to evade second spell, then 50% chance to evade third spell, 25% fourth spell. And then splintering should have a small global cooldown on a same target 

Max_Blackoak said:

Would the solution to this problem maybe be capping the ammount of +skill you can have on your suit? I know it has been brought up before...

Why take the creativity out of the game - I’ve come back not too long ago after a looong time away from the game and it’s awesome to see what combinations some players come up with to create effective templates. This would feel like a step backwards in my opinion and not take full advantage of what content there is in this game, the late 90s were great but the games changed, move on.  

Remove shatter pots from PvP. Not sure if there is a need to elaborate further...make them work in PVM, throw em at a monster and increase your damage dealt by next attack or something. 

Skill swapping suits/jewels, who cares - if you take the time to build a template that you can effectively do that with more power to you. 

@Benelli good point about evasion and splintering being fixed at the same time, if they weren’t fixed at the same time it would create more of an imbalance. The slow effect procing over and over has got to go, as others have said, making it work similar to how mortals work is a good idea. 

@Paithan good idea regarding evasion damage cap, there is still an inherent chance to get hit when you evade, would you start messing with those percentages or just simply add a cap to what player damage @Cetric  you can evade could be a simple adjustment. I would be interested to hear what players thoughts would be on what that cap would be. Perhaps no more than double your HP at the time you cast evade? 

Why are there two clients that are light years apart in functionality? I would not be so one sided and say get rid of EC just because I’ve only ever used CC but it was only recently some features of EC were migrated into CC, you started the process, now finish it up, there’s more work to be done. To think out of all things that you guys had to figure out, making all players move the same wouldn’t be such a challenge. 

Overall there are a lot of good ideas and suggestions that are coming from people who have been playing and supporting this game for a very long time and I’m sure will continue to do so in the future, it would just seem ignorant not to. 

Several good fixes for evade.  I think any of these would help.

Damage evaded cap
Evade has chance to block % of dmg
Diminishing return for each spell evaded
Make it so there is no increased parry chance just toggles it to enable parrying spells
Leave it alone if no casting school is over 69.9

Splinter definitely needs immunity but i dont think 60% splint is a big deal if it only can proc once.

Shatters - we know theyre here to stay but put a 5 minute immunity on it or something.

Shatter potions are valid tactical consumables. No need to remove them.
Perfect item to weaken players/groups that rely heavily on pots in i.e. dungeon fights.

Also lumberjack critical hit chance rate needs increased as does the damage buff.

If shatters aren't outright destroyed, there should be a heavy detriment to the person throwing them.  Force walk them for 5 seconds, make them unable to hide, put them in item use timer for a while.  Anything to kill the troll factor.

If there is going to be a cap for casting schools, it has to be 29.9 in those respective fields.  Otherwise people will just carry explode and energy bolt scrolls and nothing changes.   All of this could have been adjusted at last combat changes but all of you said I was complaining back then and it was ok and balanced.   Shatters are just fine, only way I would say to delete them is if novas get removed and all other pots get a small cooldown, if not shatters stay.  

Splinter should have never been in this game, it was only meant originally to buff up pure dexxers.  Problem is no one plays those cause having range is always better.   I said before to have focus attack removed from it and was ignored and told to adapt, LOL.  Maybe they should just remove spell channeling from most weapons in the game.  Also they could have a damage reduction to templates who run archery/throwing with a melee skill.  Or just make a pure dexxer focused temp kinda like focused mages.  

The_Higgs_1 said:

If there is going to be a cap for casting schools, it has to be 29.9 in those respective fields.  Otherwise people will just carry explode and energy bolt scrolls and nothing changes.   All of this could have been adjusted at last combat changes but all of you said I was complaining back then and it was ok and balanced.   Shatters are just fine, only way I would say to delete them is if novas get removed and all other pots get a small cooldown, if not shatters stay.  

Splinter should have never been in this game, it was only meant originally to buff up pure dexxers.  Problem is no one plays those cause having range is always better.   I said before to have focus attack removed from it and was ignored and told to adapt, LOL.  Maybe they should just remove spell channeling from most weapons in the game.  Also they could have a damage reduction to templates who run archery/throwing with a melee skill.  Or just make a pure dexxer focused temp kinda like focused mages.  

Pretty impressed so far by the constructive postings, suggestions and lack of argumentation.  Here's my take on several of the issue that have been brought up:

1. Shatter pots (lol)- Anyone can spend one night at the gate and watch why shatters are a joke.  People insisted nova's get changed because of the ability to use without any skill, yet suggest shatters are a vital part of pvp and shouldn't be changed....even though it takes 0 skill to use.  Either take them out, require skill to use, or make them like tonics.  You get to use this pot and for x amount of time you can't chug a pot.

2. Spinter- Torn on this one.  I do think an adjustment needs to be made, but not 100% what the best route is. It makes sense to have a timer (just like mortal or bone breaker), but then do you leave it able to be focused to 60%? My initial thought is focus attack should still work, but maybe work like a bonebreaker where it costs mana when it hits and has an immunity applied.  Not sure what's reasonable there.

3. Evasion- The argument has been made that bushido has been the same forever, but the power creep of skill items and then throw in -0 mage weps and only 50macing being required to evade is distorted.  Of all the minimum requirements for skill this seems off.  That has been a large oversight IMO.  I'm of the idea that there should be some type of evasion chance reduction if you have a casting skill over 69.9 much like the casting caps.  29.9 is too low as one suggested.  Reason being, sitting at 69 magery severely limits your healing and your versatility as it is.  Not to mention you could no longer run the popluar evade necro/mage or myst/mage or weave/mage because now you need a real defensive weapon skill.  So instead of 120mage and 50mace you need 69 mage and 120macing.  So it balances itself out.

I make this suggestion to keep 1 tile dexxers relevant.  They should absolutely get the full effect of evasion for having to be front and center to do anything.  If you have over 69 skill, just cut the evasion chance in half.  Being able to press a button and survive a perfect 6+ person sync is silly.  Maybe make necro the exception, but have spiritspeak on the list?  Not sure how you do it without ruining sampires. 

4. Remove Curse- Way too fast of a cast for removing every single debuff.

5. Nether- On the fence about this one too.  For the amount of skill you have to invest to cast it reliably it should have a substantial advantage over hailstorm.  I understand the issue, but also look at what you have to invest to cast it.

Figured I'd make a separate post about some less important things I would like to see, but aren't necessarily pertinent.

1. Tamers- Not a huge fan of tamers in pvp, but they definitely got hit too hard in the last patch.  I don't see why a fully trained pet should do LESS damage than an untrained pet used to do before the pet training patch hit.  They should get some kind of a buff.

2. Real skill requirements- WHY is nerve strike damage tied to real bushido skill.  Stupid.  Let +skill items work to hit minimum requirements.  Minimum tactics and wep skill.

3. More VvV stuff- Mount colors, transmog stuff, etc.  Please let me get a hawkwinds that isn't that ugly robe!  Bring back green and purple horses.

4. Gargoyles- Relevancy.  People don't play them because a)building a suit sucks b)flying timer makes it garbage in pvp c)head slots available make it tough.  lack of skill inc. n such

5. Imbuing-  Make imbuing relevant again too.  Increase the weight limit on armor and jewels or something along those lines.  Helps new players get their feet wet sooner.  The gap between imbued gear and low end loot is incredible

Cetric said:

The_Higgs_1 said:

If there is going to be a cap for casting schools, it has to be 29.9 in those respective fields.  Otherwise people will just carry explode and energy bolt scrolls and nothing changes.   All of this could have been adjusted at last combat changes but all of you said I was complaining back then and it was ok and balanced.   Shatters are just fine, only way I would say to delete them is if novas get removed and all other pots get a small cooldown, if not shatters stay.  

Splinter should have never been in this game, it was only meant originally to buff up pure dexxers.  Problem is no one plays those cause having range is always better.   I said before to have focus attack removed from it and was ignored and told to adapt, LOL.  Maybe they should just remove spell channeling from most weapons in the game.  Also they could have a damage reduction to templates who run archery/throwing with a melee skill.  Or just make a pure dexxer focused temp kinda like focused mages.  

Everyone has made suggestions over the years, please stop derailing discussion into selfish jargon.

Shatters are not ok lol.  even in their simplest form of people trying to make the case they have an important function, the troll factor is too much.  They are too powerful for their simple usage

LOL, I did nothing but post my suggestions on what is needed to fix pvp, just cause you disagree with it doesn't make it selfish.  I just seen these issues long ago and now that everyone has caught on and one side doesn't have full advantage of it, you want the change.  The suggestion of the 69.9 for casting schools literally doesn't change anything cept add 50 skill points in anything they want to be more powerful.  Casting schools and bushido should not exist in pvp period, this includes chivalry.   Evasion could handled better if mage weapon was removed from list as a weapon skill, make it have to real weapon skill of 90 just like 2nd specials.  Add mage weapon to same list as UBWS.   I can see lowering the percentage of potions broken on shatters a little bit and global cooldown as far as not letting 5 people shatter one person, other then that they are ok.

LearnMe said:

Figured I'd make a separate post about some less important things I would like to see, but aren't necessarily pertinent.

1. Tamers- Not a huge fan of tamers in pvp, but they definitely got hit too hard in the last patch.  I don't see why a fully trained pet should do LESS damage than an untrained pet used to do before the pet training patch hit.  They should get some kind of a buff.

2. Real skill requirements- WHY is nerve strike damage tied to real bushido skill.  Stupid.  Let +skill items work to hit minimum requirements.  Minimum tactics and wep skill.

3. More VvV stuff- Mount colors, transmog stuff, etc.  Please let me get a hawkwinds that isn't that ugly robe!  Bring back green and purple horses.

4. Gargoyles- Relevancy.  People don't play them because a)building a suit sucks b)flying timer makes it garbage in pvp c)head slots available make it tough.  lack of skill inc. n such

5. Imbuing-  Make imbuing relevant again too.  Increase the weight limit on armor and jewels or something along those lines.  Helps new players get their feet wet sooner.  The gap between imbued gear and low end loot is incredible

Higgs, you went on for days about how evasion was fine, it was parry that was broken.  You were wrong then, you're wrong now.  

PillowPants said:

Why take the creativity out of the game - I’ve come back not too long ago after a looong time away from the game and it’s awesome to see what combinations some players come up with to create effective templates. This would feel like a step backwards in my opinion and not take full advantage of what content there is in this game, the late 90s were great but the games changed, move on.  

[...]

Why are there two clients that are light years apart in functionality? I would not be so one sided and say get rid of EC just because I’ve only ever used CC [...].

I do like the evade cap idea and actually like Lynk's idea about leaving it alone if magic is below 70. I think these classes should be rewarded for playing them as intended in the pure form.

I wonder if splinter could be changed? Maybe remove the force walk and add in higher tick damage?

Shatter potions should require the user to be on foot, not in animal form, and unable to hide for a duration.

Not to be rude, but deathstrike is far far far from OP. To cost 320 skill points it's very underpowered if you ask me.

I have to wonder how connected to the UO pvp game play the devs really are. There are so many things that have gone unaddressed for way too long.

Yes, evasion is an issue. Being able to hit a button and survive a perfect 7 person 2 spell dump with 70% life should not be a thing. I'm not sure what the best solution is but it is something that has been brought up multiple times and has never been addressed.

Shatter pots IMO should not even exist. They are primarily used as a troll tactic and disrupt what would otherwise be fun fights between groups. If the idea is to make players less reliant on consumables, put timers on potions. Don't make it so a small number of troll type players not really participating in PVP can alter fights and make the game less enjoyable for others. 

Splintering combined with focus attack is an issue. When you get slept and swarmed by multiple dexxers who have a 60% splinter proc chance and get kept walking for 10+ seconds straight it creates a feel bad moment in the game. The "nerf" on splintering wasn't really a nerf at all. Bleed was never the issue, it is the walking portion of it. And now that on subsequent splinters you don't get bled you cant even use bandages to heal the splinter to shorten the walking duration portion of it. There should be some sort of immunity to it similar to that of the bone breaker or mortal wound.

Base weapon damage was never meant for the suits/templates that are now available to players today. When the weapons were introduced did the devs ever think that players would be running around on 830 skill point templates with 150 str 210 stam and 150 mana? The reason everyone plays parry characters is because you can get 2 shot killed by a max damage yumi archer or dexxer with an ornate axe swinging at 1.25 seconds hitting for 80-90 damage a pop. I do not believe this was ever intended. The suits have evolved and the weapons were never balanced out to accommodate the amount of stat increase now available to players. 

Jewel/item swapping has become an issue. I know some have posted on this long ago seeing it as a potential issue but it has now become a real issue. With a single button you can adjust the skill increase items on your suit to allow for absurd templates. The primary issue with this is swapping for ninja form. You now only need to fit 35ish real skill ninja into a template to reliably get into animal form by swapping to +ninja skill items when the time is needed. For new or returning players it is already extremely difficult to get back up to speed gear wise for the current meta. A normal jewel set for a decent pvp setup is going to run 300-500 mil. Take into account that a large portion of the pvp community is not running basic pvp setups and instead have high end setups including a 2nd or 3rd set of jewels on each toon to cover whatever skills they need at the time it makes it way too hard for players who haven't been around for years to come back and compete. 

Lastly the target relative issue needs to be addressed some how. I'm not sure how the UO dev team could do this because its outside programs that allow this to be done, but perhaps something can be done as far as wall of stone. Currently there are certain groups whose entire tactic is to chase players around with 6 mages spamming wall of stone 3 tiles in front of whoever they are chasing while their archers go for dismounts. It is very frustrating and creates stale pvp. This forces almost every fight to be held inside guard zone somewhere so this exploit cannot be used. A cool down on casting wall of stone outside of dungeons might be a solution. WOS is very important in dungeons as you need to be able to cast them quickly to set up traps or escapes but it was never intended to be used open field the way it is now being used. 

I know the pvp community is a small portion of the overall UO community but we pay to play this game just like everyone else and a little love on the concerns we bring up would be greatly appreciated. Spend some time observing fights and all of the issues brought up will become apparent. 

No one is hitting 80-90 every swing with ornate.  80+ happens 10% of the time and ONLY if you are corpsed and evil omened.  

Average swing is in the 60 range, and that is on a template with no parry, ninja, or weaving (aka squish).  The amount of skill points invested to get there is significantly higher than what it takes for an archer to get to high end.

@Kyronix @Bleak can we get some acknowledgement that you guys even have looked at this post as you can see a good chunk of players agree changes are needed. 

Urge said:

I do like the evade cap idea and actually like Lynk's idea about leaving it alone if magic is below 70. I think these classes should be rewarded for playing them as intended in the pure form.

I wonder if splinter could be changed? Maybe remove the force walk and add in higher tick damage?

Shatter potions should require the user to be on foot, not in animal form, and unable to hide for a duration.

Not to be rude, but deathstrike is far far far from OP. To cost 320 skill points it's very underpowered if you ask me.

I think the force walk is needed for dexers.  I do NOT think it should be able to be spammed over and over again.  I am thinking a 15 second immunity would be good.

I agree with pairs in the suggested change. Make it the same as the mortal timer/disarm timer. 

Paithan said:

Urge said:

I do like the evade cap idea and actually like Lynk's idea about leaving it alone if magic is below 70. I think these classes should be rewarded for playing them as intended in the pure form.

I wonder if splinter could be changed? Maybe remove the force walk and add in higher tick damage?

Shatter potions should require the user to be on foot, not in animal form, and unable to hide for a duration.

Not to be rude, but deathstrike is far far far from OP. To cost 320 skill points it's very underpowered if you ask me.

I think the force walk is needed for dexers.  I do NOT think it should be able to be spammed over and over again.  I am thinking a 15 second immunity would be good.

I really like AtomicBetty's idea but not with poison. I think it would be a better fit as a special on perhaps a new weapon.

Alot of gold has been thrown around on splinter weaps.  I don't think you can change it that drastically but I'd of agreed if that was when it came out.

Cetric said:

Alot of gold has been thrown around on splinter weaps.  I don't think you can change it that drastically but I'd of agreed if that was when it came out.

But gold has been disposable to gain an edge since pvp became item based. We've all spent countless coin on fotm temps we straight knew were getting nerfed before we made them.

Urge said:

Cetric said:

Alot of gold has been thrown around on splinter weaps.  I don't think you can change it that drastically but I'd of agreed if that was when it came out.

But gold has been disposable to gain an edge since pvp became item based. We've all spent countless coin on fotm temps we straight knew were getting nerfed before we made them.

This

The rampant use of third party programs are the largest issue in PvP right now. Half of all fights aren't even between players. They are between automatically running scripts and graphics altering spells being cast in a manner that break basic game mechanics. Just saying.

Blargety said:

The rampant use of third party programs are the largest issue in PvP right now. Half of all fights aren't even between players. They are between automatically running scripts and graphics altering spells being cast in a manner that break basic game mechanics. Just saying.

Explain this please.  Curious what examples you have to support this.  Target relative is an issue, sure, but even that isn't breaking a mechanic.  

LearnMe said:

Blargety said:

The rampant use of third party programs are the largest issue in PvP right now. Half of all fights aren't even between players. They are between automatically running scripts and graphics altering spells being cast in a manner that break basic game mechanics. Just saying.

Explain this please.  Curious what examples you have to support this.  Target relative is an issue, sure, but even that isn't breaking a mechanic.  

Why does your post sound like he offended illegal programs and you´re here to defend them?
 

Tjalle said:

LearnMe said:

Blargety said:

The rampant use of third party programs are the largest issue in PvP right now. Half of all fights aren't even between players. They are between automatically running scripts and graphics altering spells being cast in a manner that break basic game mechanics. Just saying.

Explain this please.  Curious what examples you have to support this.  Target relative is an issue, sure, but even that isn't breaking a mechanic.  

Why does your post sound like he offended illegal programs and you´re here to defend them?
 

Why does it seem, as per usual, you're here to contribute absolutely nothing constructive to a conversation and be a worthless troll?

I was curious, so I asked.  We've all been here making suggestions that would make pvp more fun, but there will always be the one or two that insist the game is beyond broken because of things that don't even exist.  

I guess it's totally uncalled for to ask people to explain or provide evidence for claims instead of just going off they're vague description of an unknown issue.

1100 view i think there are many people who would like to see a pvp fix

Skill increase is the root problem, for parry, evasion, the 4 strong meta templates drowning out diversity, reducing skill, reducing fun, in favor of an RNG snooze fest. Do not derail developers with this "fix evasion" nonsense or you will not be happy with what you are left with.

Nikard im not sure youre qualified since you dont really PvP.  Explain how skill inc hurts diversity, it provides more options which increases diversity.  The problem is chain splints is OP and the only way to live is to get an evade and hope you break the walk cycle.  So everyone uses their extra skill points to squeeze in evade, but evade is also OP.  Tone down both and youre left with more ways to invest those skill points.

Lynk said:

Nikard im not sure youre qualified since you dont really PvP.  Explain how skill inc hurts diversity, it provides more options which increases diversity.  The problem is chain splints is OP and the only way to live is to get an evade and hope you break the walk cycle.  So everyone uses their extra skill points to squeeze in evade, but evade is also OP.  Tone down both and youre left with more ways to invest those skill points.

Made a new post about it, feel free to stop by to be educated.

Lynk said:

Nikard im not sure youre qualified since you dont really PvP.  Explain how skill inc hurts diversity, it provides more options which increases diversity.  The problem is chain splints is OP and the only way to live is to get an evade and hope you break the walk cycle.  So everyone uses their extra skill points to squeeze in evade, but evade is also OP.  Tone down both and youre left with more ways to invest those skill points.

Just because someone doesn't really pvp anymore doesn't mean they're not qualified to offer opinions.

You're both right. You're right in splinter being op. Nikard is right in that the +skill has created templates that are hurting the game and making pvp bland.

When you have lower skilled players getting an ego because they can piece an unnatural unkillable template together, you have a major problem.  

There is no diversity and weakness when you just add in everything you want into one character. It's almost like playing ABC.

Cetric has some solid points.  I think that we need diversity in templates in the game with a balance.  

I believe that his points on evasion is spot on and the same with splintering focus attack.  These are all reasonable requests that adds only an upside of different templates being utilized.  I would also like to bring a suggestion that would also create a viable option for creativity that makes this game unique.

I believe we should remove any requirement of tactics To toggle specials and also bring back to the game the ability to toggle specials while casting spells.  This will open up a whole class of possibilities and creativity that really makes you unique with just a small tweak of coding.

thank you for reading.

boom 

LearnMe said:

Tjalle said:

LearnMe said:

Blargety said:

The rampant use of third party programs are the largest issue in PvP right now. Half of all fights aren't even between players. They are between automatically running scripts and graphics altering spells being cast in a manner that break basic game mechanics. Just saying.

Explain this please.  Curious what examples you have to support this.  Target relative is an issue, sure, but even that isn't breaking a mechanic.  

Why does your post sound like he offended illegal programs and you´re here to defend them?
 

Why does it seem, as per usual, you're here to contribute absolutely nothing constructive to a conversation and be a worthless troll?

I was curious, so I asked.  We've all been here making suggestions that would make pvp more fun, but there will always be the one or two that insist the game is beyond broken because of things that don't even exist.  

I guess it's totally uncalled for to ask people to explain or provide evidence for claims instead of just going off they're vague description of an unknown issue.

You were curious so you asked. I was curious so I asked. Guess we´re both worthless trolls then...

From what I can tell, his point was that illegal programs are a big problem in PvP, which they are. But instead of agreeing that those are an issue, or just ignoring his post, you decided to nitpick about mechanics that may or may not exist. And not only that, you did it in a defensive manner. Hence my rhetorical tongue-in-cheek question.

Cetric said:

Evasion needs to go away in PvP or be heavily nerfed such as just being a damage reducer rather than avoiding all damage.  As it sits basically everyone pvping is running evade, it's ridiculous.  It's born out of neccesity from splinter dumps, but it's watering down PvP since everyone is running high defense high offense characters capable of splintering consistently.  Leave it unchanged for pvm damage, I understand it is heavilyu by sampires and that's fine.  Have any changes be reflective of "player damage".

The slow  effect of splinter needs to not be chainable such as adding a long 30s+ immunity, and should not double with focus attack.  (60% splinter is too much) and being held walking in place thru 3, 5, 7 straight splinters in front of a group is unreal.  No wonder everyone has parry right?  It's a constant complaint you hear from users("I wanna play a fun char but everything I make needs bushido parry").  

Shatter pots should have a longer cool down and break less potions

Skill jewel swapping shouldn't be a thing.  Simple fix, have it take 15+seconds for your +skill to apply when you put on +skill items.  It's basically test center out there, go on foot set ninjitsu 900 animal form away.  You shouldn't be able to fit evasion, animal form, and offensive abilities in every character you make.  


I realize this has been posted several times with no changes occuring, but worth a shot id say.  As it sits all of PvP is basicly one group trying to capitalize on the other group with some splinters spamming while everyone runs evade to try to live thru such dumps.  When the vast majority of characters are running something specific you know there is a reason, either it's overpowered, it's forced into neccesity, or both.

There are very simple fixes for large scale problems.  Take a few minutes and consider it in the next pub or something.



Another long term discussion should be a vvv update, or more more specifically, giving the players something to fight over.  People PvP to PvP all day, every day but the fight over goals like champ spawns has been lacking for some time.  Vvv rewards are nothing we strive for today.  Add different mounts besides red and blue horses, identify useful items for town or dungeon control, you know the drill.  There's been great ideas over the years and nothing makes it to the braintrust 

Is there an MMO where people say PvP is balanced? A game which you play.  

Lets remove mage weapon from being used with evade just like UBWS doesn't work.  Make it so you need 100 real skill in a weapon class in order to evade.  Also parry when combined with wrestle or anatomy needs to be nerfed by at least 5%.  Splinter needs a heavy cooldown or just remove it from the game.  

Tjalle said:

You were curious so you asked. I was curious so I asked. Guess we´re both worthless trolls then...

From what I can tell, his point was that illegal programs are a big problem in PvP, which they are. But instead of agreeing that those are an issue, or just ignoring his post, you decided to nitpick about mechanics that may or may not exist. And not only that, you did it in a defensive manner. Hence my rhetorical tongue-in-cheek question.

You're right.  It's crazy for me to ask someone to present something they believe is an issue and ask them to explain why it's an issue.  I concede that target relative is an issue, but I would also like for someone to point out any other capabilities that another client has that enhanced client doesn't.  Otherwise, you end up with players who sincerely believe that people are running around casting flamestrikes uninterrupted at mini heal speeds (have seen that exact thing suggested.)

On the other note, you can reference any thread I've posted in here or on stratics for constructive ideas, reasons WHY I think what I do, and actual game evidence.  Can you link me to any thread where your pvp related post contains an actual suggestion, pics/video evidence, or anything even related to the topic?  I'd be impressed if you had a single one.  

Nikard said:

Skill increase is the root problem, for parry, evasion, the 4 strong meta templates drowning out diversity, reducing skill, reducing fun, in favor of an RNG snooze fest. Do not derail developers with this "fix evasion" nonsense or you will not be happy with what you are left with.

More skill increase = more template diversity.  Quite simple.

Take away skill increase and people are still going to play whatever is the most survivable against a barrage of max swing, max damage dexxers with 30-60 splinter.  So instead of a mystic evade mage, chances are I'll just play a plain evasion mage.  I'd bet most players would too.

If skill increase was the issue, why wouldn't more players be putting all of that skill increase into more offense instead of the VAST majority of templates fitting in evasion and then working their way from there?

Are devs considering changes to evasion or chain splints???  A simple acknowledgement would help.

Sigh. Got to love having so much feedback almost 2 months ago now. No acknowledgement from anyone about anything changing but don’t worry guys the next patch includes Christmas boxes and more store changes !!! Keep up the great work dev team. Glad I haven’t pvped in two months because it’s the same ole shit that has been overlooked and uncared by the game creators! 

its ok guys.  christmas decorations are coming. 

@Bleak
@Kyronix

@Kyronix
@Bleak
I thought these forums were for us to have a chance at some feedback on the topics discussed.  How tough is some simple acknowledgement and maybe a line about whether changes are somewhere on your discussion board between a new ugly mount and a new flower to put on my steps?

this thread alone has nearly 2,000 views since its creation.  I've heard from many players simple sitting on the outskirts just waiting for a reason to be invested again.

We hear your concerns and will be looking at potential solutions. We look forward to continuing this conversation and iterating over potential ideas.  

Bleak said:

We hear your concerns and will be looking at potential solutions. We look forward to continuing this conversation and iterating over potential ideas.  

A general timeline would be most helpful if it's a couple weeks or 6 months. This needs heavy talks as evasion changes will affect pvm.

Urge sorry to hear your PVM concerns but if a moderator could take action to keep this forum pertaining to the issues regarding pvp. 

Benelli said:

Urge sorry to hear your PVM concerns but if a moderator could take action to keep this forum pertaining to the issues regarding pvp. 

Mods quick to nail off topic issues everywhere else it seems.!
but yes urge does make a point that a timeline would be ideal!

Being inconsiderate of every other aspect of the game is why the pvp community has rarely been taken seriously and concerns are more often than not, neglected for endless time periods.

The issue is evasion, parry and splinter. Changes to 2 major skills will affect the entire game if not heavily discussed and well planned out.

The mods close discussions with off topic uncivilized feet stomping. A well thought out discussion pertaining to the mechanics of the entire game would be welcome.

I happen to be one of the ones on the sidelines awaiting changes before pvping again. It's rather stale at the moment.

Stale because 90% of the field is 850+ skills running evasion/parry with Casting and wep skill with ninja to focus attack 60% splinter spam. The fact that someone can hit 1 button and evade over 2-300 points of damage is quietly absurd and if it’s not going to get changed at least lengthen the cooldown of using it. All of the proposed evasion changes wouldn’t greatly detriment evasion/parry but make it less overpowered in both pvp and pve. Sampires have been overturned for quite some time as well. Plenty of awesome suggestions to build off of to come up with a great solution. 

See, that wasn't so hard to have a well thought out and useful post.

I also agree we didn't have these problems before the high skill increase items came about. PvP was absolutely broken at the moment these items came into play.

Splintering weapons could be changed to % bonebreaker and still remain valuable while being useful. (After the frenzied whirlwind era, I'm not a fan of forced walk at all)

Shatters I can also agree with. I have stacks of potions in home and bank so it really doesn't bother me as it would some.

Focus attack could simply be tied with hiding and stealth as deathstrike damage is. That would be the most simple of fixes and allow those that play the template in the pure form the ability to retain the full benefits.

Evasion you could not allow Bushido with another school of magic or FC gets dropped to 1 or 0. This would also allow those that play the template in pure form the benefits. This would also have no outcome with samps as I know none that rely on FC. Or you could put evasion into a healing stone type where one would have to utilize timing and skill to use.

Parry could be tied with a wep skill or wrestling or anatomy.

I very much agree on the tamer overnerf. The tamer mage is among my most favorite templates to play.

I am a huge fan on allowing full benefits or even a bonus to those that play templates as they were meant to be. There should be a downfall for playing an unnatural evading necro mystic parry nerve strike mage.

• the spam of splinter with or without focus attack for 0 mana and its bleed and slow you !! add timer ,mana cost on proc and not working with focus attack
• op gear that only a small % can buy .delete them or make it drop again
• tamer useless in pvp. the only person who plays tamer is not because are strong but only fun to play. a lttle buff can help alot
• magery mastery on pet only make pet froze and spam death ray .maybe delete the spell from the list
• archer cant kill barely anyone with parry
• riding swipe it should only be heal the damage received by the hit, not all the damage that follows
• 4/6 remove curse should be slow down
• a bokuto , a woodand sword ,hit faster,hit harder that any other swords and paralyze a little bit stupid
• they dont really ave any difference between the minimum skill vs 120 .60 or 120 tactic change nothing
• the timer on nova need to be remove
• wall in open field need a timer
• evade need a tune down
• shatter pot need to be deleted
• when you teleports, you should not be able to swing a hit straight away
• remove parry from the restriction list for pure mage
• make scrib usefull again

• but I believe the three things to do first evade, timer on splintering and remove shatter pot

I'm sick of seeing people say skill points in templates is an issue.  It isn't.  This has all been well outlined.  More skill creates additional template divserity, it's the 60 splint and hybrid evasion that's a primary issue. 

Make focus attack not double splinter

Put a cooldown on the splinter walk effect

Make evasion absorb less or bush/parry less effective for a char that can cast spells.  Evasion was fine and should be left alone for 1 tile dexers, it's when it blended into mages, fisters and mystics that it got pretty dumb.

Make shatter pots resistable based on resisting spells skill, scaled where they are now being 0 resist to nothing at 120 resist (or like 1%)

Agree on pets.  I think their current damage reduction is 30%.  Leave that in place for pets that cast ranged spells (mage/Myst/necro) and reduce to 15-20% for melee pets.

Cetric said:

I'm sick of seeing people say skill points in templates is an issue.  It isn't.  This has all been well outlined.  More skill creates additional template divserity, it's the 60 splint and hybrid evasion that's a primary issue. 

Such diversity there are calls to nerf 2 skills because everyone has it now. You never had hybrid evasion problems until---wait for it---plus skill allowed it to happen.

You've played long enough to know how this is going to go. Bushido and parry nerfed. The next op fotm is formed. 3/4 of the community copies it because that's what they do. Everyone then calls for those skills to be nerfed. Rinse/repeat.

I'd rather not go one by one down the list nerfing every skill because it can now fit on a template.

Cetric said:

I'm sick of seeing people say skill points in templates is an issue.  It isn't.  This has all been well outlined.  More skill creates additional template divserity, it's the 60 splint and hybrid evasion that's a primary issue. 

Make focus attack not double splinter

Put a cooldown on the splinter walk effect

Make evasion absorb less or bush/parry less effective for a char that can cast spells.  Evasion was fine and should be left alone for 1 tile dexers, it's when it blended into mages, fisters and mystics that it got pretty dumb.

Make shatter pots resistable based on resisting spells skill, scaled where they are now being 0 resist to nothing at 120 resist (or like 1%)

Agree on pets.  I think their current damage reduction is 30%.  Leave that in place for pets that cast ranged spells (mage/Myst/necro) and reduce to 15-20% for melee pets.

skill point increase is not the problem .its more that some player ave access to sick gear that not drop anymore.
no one talk about that , but all this start after they change de spell damage increase 15 to 20

Urge said:

Cetric said:

I'm sick of seeing people say skill points in templates is an issue.  It isn't.  This has all been well outlined.  More skill creates additional template divserity, it's the 60 splint and hybrid evasion that's a primary issue. 

Such diversity there are calls to nerf 2 skills because everyone has it now. You never had hybrid evasion problems until---wait for it---plus skill allowed it to happen.

You've played long enough to know how this is going to go. Bushido and parry nerfed. The next op fotm is formed. 3/4 of the community copies it because that's what they do. Everyone then calls for those skills to be nerfed. Rinse/repeat.

I'd rather not go one by one down the list nerfing every skill because it can now fit on a template.

One thing I think is funny is evade versus warcry from bushido mastery.  Evasion is much more powerful with a 25 second cooldown.  Warcry is weak, with a 20 minues cooldown, and the need for mastery/real skill lol.  They almost should be flipped but that would be a major pvm change.

I think what has been mentioned makes just enough difference to freshen up those templates, without diminishing their usage entirely.  Splinter is an important function in the game now but it's over relied on in some cases, as is evasion:

-Make a 20-30s immunity to splinter bleed and walk

-Make it so focus attack does not double splinter

-Differentiate player versus monster damage so evasion changes do not effect pvm.  IF player damage  reduce chance of evade proc or something.  Potentially only to caster templates, leaving pvm evasion unchanged.

With these changes the current template flavor would be unchanged, you could still own on a bok mage, but mmmmayyybbeee people wouldnt feel the desire to cram as much defense as they can throw at a char and then worry about their offense, and would start opening up their minds to more fun characters.  



I'd love to get in on a broad discussion of PvP inducing ideas, such as what could be done to enhance vvv, things to fight over (like power scrolls were/sort of are still) but I'm sure that is a whole other topic to dive into.  The bottom line is, when PvP has a goal, or an item to gain/defend, it enhanced your options.  But simple things can go a long way like vvv mount color options, town buffs in fel, properly functioning rankings, dungeon content, town control, you name it.

Cetric said:

One thing I think is funny is evade versus warcry from bushido mastery.  Evasion is much more powerful with a 25 second cooldown.  Warcry is weak, with a 20 minues cooldown, and the need for mastery/real skill lol.  They almost should be flipped but that would be a major pvm change.

I think what has been mentioned makes just enough difference to freshen up those templates, without diminishing their usage entirely.  Splinter is an important function in the game now but it's over relied on in some cases, as is evasion:

-Make a 20-30s immunity to splinter bleed and walk

-Make it so focus attack does not double splinter

-Differentiate player versus monster damage so evasion changes do not effect pvm.  IF player damage  reduce chance of evade proc or something.  Potentially only to caster templates, leaving pvm evasion unchanged.

With these changes the current template flavor would be unchanged, you could still own on a bok mage, but mmmmayyybbeee people wouldnt feel the desire to cram as much defense as they can throw at a char and then worry about their offense, and would start opening up their minds to more fun characters.  



I'd love to get in on a broad discussion of PvP inducing ideas, such as what could be done to enhance vvv, things to fight over (like power scrolls were/sort of are still) but I'm sure that is a whole other topic to dive into.  The bottom line is, when PvP has a goal, or an item to gain/defend, it enhanced your options.  But simple things can go a long way like vvv mount color options, town buffs in fel, properly functioning rankings, dungeon content, town control, you name it.

i agree with all this fix maybe its help to make pvp more fun.I'd love to get more vvv stuff mini event anythings that not just run around yew.

for the broken gear 9 + mod .its not because someone with only 8 mod gear cant make on hybrid .you can make bok mage pretty easy but your going to be low somewhere.vs someone with 9+mod that going to ave all dmi sdi ep 2/6 hic dci name it all caped.

Cetric said:

With these changes the current template flavor would be unchanged, you could still own on a bok mage, but mmmmayyybbeee people wouldnt feel the desire to cram as much defense as they can throw at a char and then worry about their offense, and would start opening up their minds to more fun characters.  



I'd love to get in on a broad discussion of PvP inducing ideas, such as what could be done to enhance vvv, things to fight over (like power scrolls were/sort of are still) but I'm sure that is a whole other topic to dive into.  The bottom line is, when PvP has a goal, or an item to gain/defend, it enhanced your options.  But simple things can go a long way like vvv mount color options, town buffs in fel, properly functioning rankings, dungeon content, town control, you name it.

People play what is visually effective. 85% of the pvpers essentially copycat because they've seen someone else play it well. There are select few that think outside the box like yourself playing the archer mage during the alchy-parry stage.

The offense/defense cycle we've had is exactly why we need heavy discussion to get it right the first time or else we'll be stuck with another fruity fotm for 6 months or more due to the team having project timelines.

Oh and I've had a thread up for a couple weeks on VvV discussions. You guys should chime in! 

The issue with +skill, IMO, is it allows too many synergies without an associated sacrifice.  Does it open up diversity, sure it does... but frankly it also allows optimized templates that just shouldn’t exist.  Much of the conversation revolves around effect 1 being combine with effect 2 being combined with effect 3.  Now we want to nerf effect 3 if xyz skill is used or add a cool down to effect 2, or ... etc.

I definitely agree that some things need a tweak... shatter pots, repeated slow walk from splinter, etc.  However I also believe that a hard cap on skill increase needs to be considered.  One, given the solution regarding gear (i.e. it’s not dropping anymore) there needs to be a balance between what is attainable and what people already have.  Two, there is less need to nerf effects if said templates already sacrifice something to begin with.

Merus said:

The issue with +skill, IMO, is it allows too many synergies without an associated sacrifice.  Does it open up diversity, sure it does... but frankly it also allows optimized templates that just shouldn’t exist.  Much of the conversation revolves around effect 1 being combine with effect 2 being combined with effect 3.  Now we want to nerf effect 3 if xyz skill is used or add a cool down to effect 2, or ... etc.

I definitely agree that some things need a tweak... shatter pots, repeated slow walk from splinter, etc.  However I also believe that a hard cap on skill increase needs to be considered.  One, given the solution regarding gear (i.e. it’s not dropping anymore) there needs to be a balance between what is attainable and what people already have.  Two, there is less need to nerf effects if said templates already sacrifice something to begin with.

When you stack skill bonus you sacrifice the small things that get overlooked.  Primary thing is stats and damage, but then residual things like eaters, maxing regens and cf.  It's just right now ppl gravitate towards the skill bonus side of things and overlook the others in favor of fast high dmg weaps like bokutos.

The other dilemma in capping skill bonus is how you would deal with an item that has say +15 vet and +15 peacemaking on it adding Into your "cap".  I've made a couple 820-850 skill chars, it's mainly mage types since they don't need alot of the other mods,and let me tell ya they definitly sacrificed something along the way to get there, be it stats, defense, regens, etc.

Capping skill bonus is also a method of alienating alot of players hard created suits, valuable items, things like that.  I can say with some certainty that most people desire changes that are more subtle rather than "well ok all my chars need changed guess I'll get to it some other time"

Here's another weird theory: 1v1ing took a back page to group v group and people saying "1v1s suck" because everyone forced themselves into defensive temps with offensive liabilities to combat splinter and stuff.  I think you make some of those adjustments in the beginning and that makes a slight comeback, and skill bonus stacking and the like sort of naturally balances back down due to the "need" not feeling there for some people.

Cetric said:

Merus said:

The issue with +skill, IMO, is it allows too many synergies without an associated sacrifice.  Does it open up diversity, sure it does... but frankly it also allows optimized templates that just shouldn’t exist.  Much of the conversation revolves around effect 1 being combine with effect 2 being combined with effect 3.  Now we want to nerf effect 3 if xyz skill is used or add a cool down to effect 2, or ... etc.

I definitely agree that some things need a tweak... shatter pots, repeated slow walk from splinter, etc.  However I also believe that a hard cap on skill increase needs to be considered.  One, given the solution regarding gear (i.e. it’s not dropping anymore) there needs to be a balance between what is attainable and what people already have.  Two, there is less need to nerf effects if said templates already sacrifice something to begin with.

When you stack skill bonus you sacrifice the small things that get overlooked.  Primary thing is stats and damage, but then residual things like eaters, maxing regens and cf.  It's just right now ppl gravitate towards the skill bonus side of things and overlook the others in favor of fast high dmg weaps like bokutos.

The other dilemma in capping skill bonus is how you would deal with an item that has say +15 vet and +15 peacemaking on it adding Into your "cap".  I've made a couple 820-850 skill chars, it's mainly mage types since they don't need alot of the other mods,and let me tell ya they definitly sacrificed something along the way to get there, be it stats, defense, regens, etc.

Capping skill bonus is also a method of alienating alot of players hard created suits, valuable items, things like that.  I can say with some certainty that most people desire changes that are more subtle rather than "well ok all my chars need changed guess I'll get to it some other time"

Here's another weird theory: 1v1ing took a back page to group v group and people saying "1v1s suck" because everyone forced themselves into defensive temps with offensive liabilities to combat splinter and stuff.  I think you make some of those adjustments in the beginning and that makes a slight comeback, and skill bonus stacking and the like sort of naturally balances back down due to the "need" not feeling there for some people.

You make some valid points and for some it would not be an easy change.

With the extreme gear that was/is out there, the right suit pieces on an 780-800 skill character sacrifice very little... a few stat points or regens don’t amount to much when you’re running near 400 stat points.  I know every little bit matters, but it’s not like giving up parry to get focus attack would be.

With the loot changes the skill cap may eventually not be an issue anymore once some of the really extreme pieces get used up, but the current situation of some having extreme gear that no longer is attainable creates an inherent imbalance.  There would definitely have to be some thought given to the order in which skill increase items are added if the skill increase exceeds the cap.  No matter what is chosen it would likely leave some players a bit sore for a while... however those are the same players who’ve had a nice advantage for a while now so it balances out IMO.

FYI - 50+ skill jewels still drop, just with an 8 mod cap.  So at most compared to the 10-12 mod jewels that fell, you can still easily roll on the mods you needed and still only sacrifice things like stats.  I get what your saying, but i don't think the net gain is very large compared to the inherent problems it causes, people it ticks off, etc.  Like what would you set a cap at? i dont even know, but if some of the players issues are more template variety by hoping bush/parry/ninja gets used less, then ripping down their template options via skill increase changes has the opposite effect.

Cetric said:

FYI - 50+ skill jewels still drop, just with an 8 mod cap.  So at most compared to the 10-12 mod jewels that fell, you can still easily roll on the mods you needed and still only sacrifice things like stats.  I get what your saying, but i don't think the net gain is very large compared to the inherent problems it causes, people it ticks off, etc.  Like what would you set a cap at? i dont even know, but if some of the players issues are more template variety by hoping bush/parry/ninja gets used less, then ripping down their template options via skill increase changes has the opposite effect.

I’m honestly not sure exactly how to best limit it without some well thought out math and discussion.  At first pass I would throw out something like +80, but with no more than +20 in any skill that has a mastery.  Skills like Magery, Bushido, Parry, Ninjia, Swords, etc would mostly require real skill, which I think would limit some template abuse.  Obviously just one idea though.

Any update on a timeline @bleak?

Change evasion to be a % of damage like how mana shield works. (Cannot  be stacked)

Remove shatters completely. Or change the way they work. (Can’t hide for 15 seconds after, can’t be in animal form, they’re not strategic..they’re for trolling)

Give The SDI cap back. You already sacrifice so much defense. So it’s basically a useless template as it sits. Trade off. High damage no defense. Right now it’s Low-medium damage no defense.

Splinter ideas:

Two weeks since any updates... no timeline yet... @Bleak what’s the deal are we going to get some light on what is going on?

Benelli said:

Two weeks since any updates... no timeline yet... @ Bleak what’s the deal are we going to get some light on what is going on?

I’m just gonna say that two weeks in UO developer time is like the blink of eye... it will likely be “soon”.

Splinter needs to be nerfed into oblivion, doesn't matter how they do it, just needs to get done.  It was the first step that ruined pvp followed shortly by over skilling to the max.  Either a hard cap needs to added for skill points or add negatives to templates that use a lot of it.   Such as for every +50 skill added then it lowers you sdi cap by 5 and hci by 5, and keeps getting worse the more skill points you add.   That way a player with 850+ skill points becomes strictly utility and does basically no damage.   This would fix 90% of pvp issues without over nerfing a ton of different things.

Merus said:

Benelli said:

Two weeks since any updates... no timeline yet... @ Bleak what’s the deal are we going to get some light on what is going on?

I’m just gonna say that two weeks in UO developer time is like the blink of eye... it will likely be “soon”.

Two weeks since they acknowledged it publicly, almost 3 months since a post had been made, over a year of this actually being an issue.. they have had plenty of time. Looks like my return to daily playing with be “soon.” 

CovenantX said:

Pvp could be near perfect if only a few things were tweaked.

1A) Parry reduce the passive block chances by 10% across the board. if parry mastery is not used.

Bushido + Parry + 2h weapon 40% down to 30%  &  0% up to 15% for balanced 2h weapon.

Bushido + Parry + 1h weapon 30% down to 20%

Parry + Shield 35% down to 25%

1B) Parry Mastery - Passive skill - should increase Shield Parry chance by 15% when paired with an equipped weapon of the following types: Swords, Fencing, Macing & Throwing. 

Archery, Wrestling, or Anatomy & Evaluating Intel- should not gain any additional Parry chance from Parry Mastery.

1C) Bushido skill should no longer reduce parry chances while a shield is equipped.

1D) Balanced 2h weapons should be able to parry at half the normal chance..

2) Evasion -  This spell should not work at all with "Spell channeling" weapons or while a shield is equipped,

3) Splintering Weapon - add a 30 second immunity to the player that has recently been Splintered.   Splinter immunity should prevent both the slow & bleed effects from splintering weapon but not Bleed from the weapon special move Bleed Attack.

4) Shatter Potions - Add a 30 second immunity to the player that has recently had potions destroyed via shatter potion.

30 second immunity for shatter change nothing.they already ave 30 timer on pot.the troll can only follow you and hit you every 30 sec ,hide and repeat.shatter need to be remove or ave a hard nerf

ezikel said:

30 second immunity for shatter change nothing.they already ave 30 timer on pot.the troll can only follow you and hit you every 30 sec ,hide and repeat.shatter need to be remove or ave a hard nerf

Bleak has changes on TC now. Go go go.

What's the changes? 

Link to the thread on Test Forum.  https://forum.uo.com/discussion/5472/pvp-combat-changes-evasion-splintering#latest

CovenantX said:

ezikel said:

30 second immunity for shatter change nothing.they already ave 30 timer on pot.the troll can only follow you and hit you every 30 sec ,hide and repeat.shatter need to be remove or ave a hard nerf

   It'll make a difference when 2 or more people shatter you within the 30s. Let's put it this way.

if shatters are breaking your game it's because you:

1) You can't survive with mass amounts of consumables.  (majority has this issue, judging by your comment, it would be hard to convince one it is something else, i'll explain why below)

2) You're not very good at pvp.

3) You're always outnumbered.

4) all of the above.

I haven't even pvped in about 3 months Parry & Evade has made this game boring AF it should have been fixed in the same publish tactics requirements were reduced and there wouldn't be even half of these issues today (as I said at the time) Anyway... Shatter Potions are and always have been on a 60s cooldown,  so Obviously the shatter immunity would be in-place to prevent bad players from sync-shattering so other bad players run home crying about it and to restock instead of pvp.

You fit number 2 perfectly.  It always blows my mind to see you/warshak/drcucksack say the same thing over and over when you guys have been so terrible at pvp for such a long time.

Paithan said:

CovenantX said:

ezikel said:

30 second immunity for shatter change nothing.they already ave 30 timer on pot.the troll can only follow you and hit you every 30 sec ,hide and repeat.shatter need to be remove or ave a hard nerf

   It'll make a difference when 2 or more people shatter you within the 30s. Let's put it this way.

if shatters are breaking your game it's because you:

1) You can't survive with mass amounts of consumables.  (majority has this issue, judging by your comment, it would be hard to convince one it is something else, i'll explain why below)

2) You're not very good at pvp.

3) You're always outnumbered.

4) all of the above.

I haven't even pvped in about 3 months Parry & Evade has made this game boring AF it should have been fixed in the same publish tactics requirements were reduced and there wouldn't be even half of these issues today (as I said at the time) Anyway... Shatter Potions are and always have been on a 60s cooldown,  so Obviously the shatter immunity would be in-place to prevent bad players from sync-shattering so other bad players run home crying about it and to restock instead of pvp.

You fit number 2 perfectly.  It always blows my mind to see you/warshak/drcucksack say the same thing over and over when you guys have been so terrible at pvp for such a long time.

 a little salty eh?   at least those players know who they are =D

CovenantX said:

Paithan said:

CovenantX said:

ezikel said:

30 second immunity for shatter change nothing.they already ave 30 timer on pot.the troll can only follow you and hit you every 30 sec ,hide and repeat.shatter need to be remove or ave a hard nerf

   It'll make a difference when 2 or more people shatter you within the 30s. Let's put it this way.

if shatters are breaking your game it's because you:

1) You can't survive with mass amounts of consumables.  (majority has this issue, judging by your comment, it would be hard to convince one it is something else, i'll explain why below)

2) You're not very good at pvp.

3) You're always outnumbered.

4) all of the above.

I haven't even pvped in about 3 months Parry & Evade has made this game boring AF it should have been fixed in the same publish tactics requirements were reduced and there wouldn't be even half of these issues today (as I said at the time) Anyway... Shatter Potions are and always have been on a 60s cooldown,  so Obviously the shatter immunity would be in-place to prevent bad players from sync-shattering so other bad players run home crying about it and to restock instead of pvp.

You fit number 2 perfectly.  It always blows my mind to see you/warshak/drcucksack say the same thing over and over when you guys have been so terrible at pvp for such a long time.

 a little salty eh?   at least those players know who they are =D

People that I kill easily and die due to not knowing the game don’t make me salty. Makes me laugh. I just need to point it out so devs don’t go thinking you know what you are talking about.  

You are the kinda guy who died while using broken corpse skin 1v1. Lol

Paithan said:

CovenantX said:

Paithan said:

CovenantX said:

ezikel said:

30 second immunity for shatter change nothing.they already ave 30 timer on pot.the troll can only follow you and hit you every 30 sec ,hide and repeat.shatter need to be remove or ave a hard nerf

   It'll make a difference when 2 or more people shatter you within the 30s. Let's put it this way.

if shatters are breaking your game it's because you:

1) You can't survive with mass amounts of consumables.  (majority has this issue, judging by your comment, it would be hard to convince one it is something else, i'll explain why below)

2) You're not very good at pvp.

3) You're always outnumbered.

4) all of the above.

I haven't even pvped in about 3 months Parry & Evade has made this game boring AF it should have been fixed in the same publish tactics requirements were reduced and there wouldn't be even half of these issues today (as I said at the time) Anyway... Shatter Potions are and always have been on a 60s cooldown,  so Obviously the shatter immunity would be in-place to prevent bad players from sync-shattering so other bad players run home crying about it and to restock instead of pvp.

You fit number 2 perfectly.  It always blows my mind to see you/warshak/drcucksack say the same thing over and over when you guys have been so terrible at pvp for such a long time.

 a little salty eh?   at least those players know who they are =D

People that I kill easily and die due to not knowing the game don’t make me salty. Makes me laugh. I just need to point it out so devs don’t go thinking you know what you are talking about.  

You are the kinda guy who died while using broken corpse skin 1v1. Lol

I’ve dispatched you on gurads and your mage. Easily on both accounts. I’d be happy to destroy you again on any char ya have whenever ya want though. 

And I did lose duels on a guy with no wep skill. Wrestle disrupted every hit.. but you knew that. 

Your going to get this thread locked with your trolls and nonsense lies Paith.  Ive watched you try to fight many people solo and you leave screen versus just about everyone,  just stop already and let this thread be about the coming changes not your fantasy land where you think you never die.  K thanks!

The_Higgs_1 said:

Your going to get this thread locked with your trolls and nonsense lies Paith.  Ive watched you try to fight many people solo and you leave screen versus just about everyone,  just stop already and let this thread be about the coming changes not your fantasy land where you think you never die.  K thanks!

Lies? lol.  Although, he is 10x better than you.. he is still a bad pvper.  You run straight into a house whenever I curse you or will die with numbers holding grinders. 

Thus thread is becoming redundant. Uncivil language, disrespectful attitudes and trollish behavior will get this thread locked.