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Dynamic events, paragons, and mounted combat

Started by Wrac · 2021-10-23 · 117 posts · General Discussions
#0
Long post.  Sorry in advance.  
I play primarily as a tamer and have been investing a fair amount of time in the most recent “Treasures of” event in Hythloth. I wanted to provide some feedback on mounted combat, unmounted combat, and the paragon combat rules. 
 I recognize and accept that a tamer isn’t going to kill at the same rate as many melee templates running 100% elemental weapons, double slayers, with leeches and AOE galore, but also know that a properly kitted tamer is one of the most efficient templates for killing the big paragons that prowl the dungeon.
 Being a non gargoyle tamer using a 5 slot pet means I am on foot at all times. The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me!  I’m generally hunting the prison cells or the room that spawns the gargoyles at the end of the first floor hall, so I’m not becoming collateral damage as they run for the entrance, these are players who come up the stairs and come in my direction because I’m there.  Last night I confronted a Sampire about it, and admitted it t was by design, hoping I would heal them.  As a vet I heal animals, not people.
When this happens, if I can mount up I will, and just recall back to the entrance to start slowly working in again.  Because the Gargs that spawn in those rooms have AOE attacks, and because sometimes the dog does what he wants despite 120/120 real taming and lore, I’m often far enough from my pet that I don’t have a chance to mount.  In this case I’ll stand stone still and hope for the traffic to circle back out, but if mach 3 gets far enough to break Agro while I’m in range, or the paragon has an AOE and re-targets to me, I’m toast.  I’ve got absolutely no chance at outrunning the paragon.  I’ll generally pound my recall key until I die or (occasionally) recall out.
Can something be done to address this imbalance?  Once upon a time the handicap was often argued as a trade off for the superior power of the tamer pet.  Those days are long gone.  There’s no competitive advantage to be gained by providing some type zero pet slot vehicle that allows tamers the same movement rate as every other class.  
Since the zero slot mount has been suggested many times before with no movement(it’s the right answer y’all), I’ll make a few other suggestions.
1. change the paragon chase speed back to normal MOB levels.  Another post on this board suggested rubber banding them to an area. It’s unnecessary, just keeping them at a normal run speed will solve most of the problem.  To farm areas that paras have spawned, a slow chase speed will allow players an opportunity to rally and kill them where spawned rather than drag them to the entry point as the designated paragon dump.  On slow shards where there are few players, still possible to move paragons to manageable areas.
2. Add “dismount” as an ability to all paragons and allow players to determine for themselves whether to go on foot or risk mounting up. Ethereal mounts will rule the landscape so offer a few for sale in the store to combat scarcity.  If you’re feeling really nice, a token for a free 1st year vet reward solves that problem too.
3. Don’t allow mounted combat within the dungeon at all.  Everybody’s on foot.  No flying either for the garg players.  Sorry all three of you out there.  At that point, melee players have their high offensive arsenal, tamers have their high defensive arsenal, and casters have a nice mix of both.


#1
Stand still and it goes right by you.   Run with protection and invis if it does aggro you.
Maybe another way to fix the imbalance is to not allow healing of pets in the dungeon. That would even out the no life leech.

There is no issue that needs fixed. Not all dungeons will have balrons. 
#2
@Pawain is more than willing to not ride his swampy in a show of solidarity and to show us how damage reduction isn't really important and it's easy to adapt 
#3
Thanks for the troll.
#4
Standing still does not always work. 99% of the time it looks like this:

*Paragon appears,
Tamer invis,
Tell pet to kill,
tamer invis again,
paragon auto-reveals,
targets tamer,
tamer invis,
takes one step back,
tamer invis,
paragon auto-reveals and targets tamer,
tamer invis,
takes another step back,
tamer invis,
paragon auto-reveal and targets tamer
tamer invis,
takes another step back,
tamer invis,
paragon auto-reveals*

If it's a Hell Hound, Elder Gazer or Deamon it takes a minute for me or Me/My pet to kill them and I promise you 99% of the time, no matter what I do...invis and take a step or two away or invis and teleport a few steps away, invis again....99% of the time the paragon will re-target me.
#5
I have 2 tamers camped on steps every day.  I rarely invis and they rarely die.  One is also an archer. He shoots them with few aggros on him.

I drag paras down the hall every day.  They stay on me unless someone runs  or an archer attacks them.  Archers are the most disruptive to dragging cause they always run in the wrong direction.

Funny how Yoshi can get 500+ drops from his afk tamer and not have problems with paragons.

Also maybe the difficulty is why the 2 dungeons with Balrons have lasted 2 months.  Maybe we are not expected to get as many drops/time as we did in the easier dungeons.
#6
If they were to make changes to these dynamic dungeons here is what I would do:

Make an area for NOOBs.  Deceit was a good example.  It had mostly low level mobs on the first floor, especially by the cells. On LS we left it for them because the rest of us like more challenge from the Rams and LL.

Hythloth could have just low level spawn that gives less points but they are easy to kill.  This should be on the first floor.

Then the other floors or areas have the tougher spawn for those wanting more adventure.

I doubt they change anything anyway.  The only difficult mob here is the Balron.  If they did not have the Balron this would be a very boring place.

Note: You can practice on them year round at Chaos. Those paras also re target.
#7
I don't go down there for long periods of time, the only thing I can grind over and over are spawns. The Treasures of Events maybe 30 minutes at a time a couple of times a day. I have a grand total of 74 drops 🙂 There are only 3 things I really want as far as the rewards go so I am hoping for at least one set of armor for a mannequin. So far a lot of bows and Ninja armor 🙁 I have 3 pieces of a Studded set and one platemail gorget, no bone yet.

I keep saying that the game hates my tamer...she has more problems then any tamer I know...I think it's because of the blackrock..I seriously do.... she's had issues ever since.
#8
Pawain said:
Stand still and it goes right by you.   Run with protection and invis if it does aggro you.
Maybe another way to fix the imbalance is to not allow healing of pets in the dungeon. That would even out the no life leech.

There is no issue that needs fixed. Not all dungeons will have balrons. 
It doesn’t always go right by you Pawain.  As I said if it’s got an AOE or if the Mach 3 breaks agro range… game over.  And stop gawking about healing pets.  Any melee character can pick up a skill called healing… it’s kinda the same thing as pet heals.
#9
Larisa said:
I don't go down there for long periods of time, the only thing I can grind over and over are spawns. The Treasures of Events maybe 30 minutes at a time a couple of times a day. I have a grand total of 74 drops 🙂 There are only 3 things I really want as far as the rewards go so I am hoping for at least one set of armor for a mannequin. So far a lot of bows and Ninja armor 🙁 I have 3 pieces of a Studded set and one platemail gorget, no bone yet.

I keep saying that the game hates my tamer...she has more problems then any tamer I know...I think it's because of the blackrock..I seriously do.... she's had issues ever since.
Exactly.  Thats why I say a better fix would be an area that has the easier inhabitants of the dungeon.  Not enough points for the speed gamers to want to kill.  But enough to get drops for casual gamers.  Basically spread the spawn out so you cant use WW.  Perfect for the other templates.
#10
Wrac said:
Pawain said:
Stand still and it goes right by you.   Run with protection and invis if it does aggro you.
Maybe another way to fix the imbalance is to not allow healing of pets in the dungeon. That would even out the no life leech.

There is no issue that needs fixed. Not all dungeons will have balrons. 
It doesn’t always go right by you Pawain.  As I said if it’s got an AOE or if the Mach 3 breaks agro range… game over.  And stop gawking about healing pets.  Any melee character can pick up a skill called healing… it’s kinda the same thing as pet heals.
Actually on second thought the melee player can still run Mach 3 while healing.  Whereas the tamer still has to stand along side their pet.
#11
Pawain said:


Note: You can practice on them year round at Chaos. Those paras also re target.
I can farm Balrons at chaos all day, get a double to spawn and my tamer will kill them both same time because I can control the spawn and targeting there. A balron isn’t going to be dragged past by a sampire who bit off too much and have agro broken as my pet is locked onto three other mobs.   Your comment has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand…. 
#12
OK I'm out. There are NEVER 2 Balrons at Chaos.  Have fun with your BS.
#13
Another non-gargoyle tamer using a 5 slot pet Versus Mounted warrior.

Instead of asking for a mounted tamer, you are asking melee warriors to run around like a tamer who hides behind a pet.

Warriors don't ask their weapons to "All Kill". We can't even wear high luck items like the Yukio earrings, as it wear down super fast.

@Mariah Should just sticky up a post with this subject and keep it there so we can just ignore one post instead of reading new posts for same issue for every event.
#14
Wrac said:

 Being a non gargoyle tamer using a 5 slot pet means I am on foot at all times.

Can something be done to address this imbalance?  

1. change the paragon chase speed back to normal MOB levels.

I entirely sympathize with you.

I enjoy a whole lot more playing a Tamer yet, because of the way that these "Treasures of" Events have been designed, I have found myself, unfortunately, having to make a Warrior.

My opinion ?

These Events are imbalanced out between different Templates.

There is one type of a Template, the Warrior, in various variations, which rules it all, getting drops a go-go (I heard of someone with a Dexer, using the Store bought Potion, getting 60 drops in 1 hour...) and then, all of the others, including Tamers as well as other Templates, who lag behind, getting the left overs from Warriors if there is too many around, or having to play at off hours when Warriors are not around..... 

I have been asking @Kyronix ; to balance these Event and have different Templates be more "equally" able to get drops yet, the answer which I was given was....

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/60800/#Comment_60800
  • Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of gameplay.
And that is why, even though I wanted to play a Tamer, I ended up making a Dexer....

I would have at least hoped in an answer that these "Treasures of" Events would have been Designed with a "rotation"....

That is, one time an Event where Dexers would shine, next Event would have been one where Tamers would have shined, then the following one would have seen Bards who had come on top, and then the following one again would have been Designed for Rogues, for example, to be the "best" Template for the job.... and so forth......

Yet, "Treasures of" Event after "Treasures of" Event I keep seeing Warriors as the privileged Template to be used, if one wants to get drops...

And, to my opinion, this is a serious problem for those players who play other Templates...

Why ?

Because the Designers have to well keep in mind the much higher drop rate of Treasures of Artifacts that Warriors can get when they set the "cost" for the Rewards otherwise, players getting drops with Warriors would get them by the dozens....

So, prices for Rewards end up being very high for players using Templates other then Warriors... and they have a really hard time getting some of those Rewards, especially the higher end ones which are more wanted, obviously.

As I said, to my opinion, it is very much unbalanced in between different Templates and their ability to get drops and I wished that the Developers fixed this imbalance.

Oh well....
#15
Seth said:

Warriors don't ask their weapons to "All Kill". 


You're correct.  You just press an attack key and the weapon responds predictably every time.  It doesn't have a mind of it's own, and sometimes decide it just doesnt feel like listening, despite tamer having 120/120 real pet control skills.





#16
The problem here Pawain is that you always say *Practice on Paragons at *X* location...the only thing is the paragons in the Treasures Of Dungeons are VERY different then their normal counterparts. A Paragon Balron in the real world is MUCH easier then a  Paragon Balron in Hythloth.

The Treasures Of Paragons are super beefed up versions, faster, stronger etc. So it's not fair to say *Oh just practice on them over there* because it is 100% not the same.
#17
popps said:
Wrac said:

 Being a non gargoyle tamer using a 5 slot pet means I am on foot at all times.

Can something be done to address this imbalance?  

1. change the paragon chase speed back to normal MOB levels.

I entirely sympathize with you.

I enjoy a whole lot more playing a Tamer yet, because of the way that these "Treasures of" Events have been designed, I have found myself, unfortunately, having to make a Warrior.

My opinion ?

These Events are imbalanced out between different Templates.

There is one type of a Template, the Warrior, in various variations, which rules it all, getting drops a go-go (I heard of someone with a Dexer, using the Store bought Potion, getting 60 drops in 1 hour...) and then, all of the others, including Tamers as well as other Templates, who lag behind, getting the left overs from Warriors if there is too many around, or having to play at off hours when Warriors are not around..... 

I have been asking @ Kyronix  to balance these Event and have different Templates be more "equally" able to get drops yet, the answer which I was given was....

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/60800/#Comment_60800
  • Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of gameplay.
And that is why, even though I wanted to play a Tamer, I ended up making a Dexer....

I would have at least hoped in an answer that these "Treasures of" Events would have been Designed with a "rotation"....

That is, one time an Event where Dexers would shine, next Event would have been one where Tamers would have shined, then the following one would have seen Bards who had come on top, and then the following one again would have been Designed for Rogues, for example, to be the "best" Template for the job.... and so forth......

Yet, "Treasures of" Event after "Treasures of" Event I keep seeing Warriors as the privileged Template to be used, if one wants to get drops...

And, to my opinion, this is a serious problem for those players who play other Templates...

Why ?

Because the Designers have to well keep in mind the much higher drop rate of Treasures of Artifacts that Warriors can get when they set the "cost" for the Rewards otherwise, players getting drops with Warriors would get them by the dozens....

So, prices for Rewards end up being very high for players using Templates other then Warriors... and they have a really hard time getting some of those Rewards, especially the higher end ones which are more wanted, obviously.

As I said, to my opinion, it is very much unbalanced in between different Templates and their ability to get drops and I wished that the Developers fixed this imbalance.

Oh well....
YOU CHOOSE TO TRY TO KEEP UP WITH THE JONES  i happily play my Bard getting 2 drops an hour don't confuse your choices with actual issues like gargoyles and damage reduction..
#18
McDougle said:

YOU CHOOSE TO TRY TO KEEP UP WITH THE JONES  i happily play my Bard getting 2 drops an hour don't confuse your choices with actual issues like gargoyles and damage reduction..
I happen to be of the opinion that BALANCE in games is rather important....

And that also, having Events being Designed to possibly cater to a larger variety of Templates, as much equally as possible, is important to maintain a variety of Templates to exist in the gaming Environment.

Yet, if these "Treasures of" Events always cater to the same one Template, doesn't this kill diversity of seeing varied Templates around ?

Sure, one can see "occasionally, a few Tamers or a Bard in them, but that is not comparable to the tons and tons of Warriors that attend them.

I mean, evnetually I had to give up and had to make a Warrior myself, if I wanted to have decent chances to get some of the nicer Rewards at these Events....

You may disagree, and that is fine, but, personally, I consider this as imbalanced Design.
#19
Pawain said:
OK I'm out. There are NEVER 2 Balrons at Chaos.  Have fun with your BS.

I hate your abbreviations - really - what is BS supposed to mean now? In Germany it could well stand for "Bescheuertes Spiel" (> stupid game) ;)

 

Chaos Shrine in Ilsh can never have two Paragons there at the same time, because only one Balron spawn place was set there. What can happen to you, however, is that 2 Balron paragons can spawn directly behind each other.  According to my observation, the Ilsh Paragons are also designed quite differently than the Treasures of... Paragons: In Ilsh they are not autorevealed ;), in Ilsh these paragons can also be lored with Animal Lore, which is not the case with the Treasures of ... Paras, and in Ilsh there is double gold as Loot what Treasures of... Paras don't give away either, but then they have 5 times the amount of HP, which I also find totally exaggerated with the Balron ;) - the triple amount of the original hitpoints would have been enough in my opinion.

So in generell you cannot compare these two types of Paragons ;) They are different in some points!

What's equal to both type is: they are as double fast as the normal Monster, and we can observe a fast double para respawn behind each other.

 

Even I with actually quite good equipment and a 30 Demon-Slayer Spellbook can't manage it - in Wildfire Event it worked sometimes quite well because there was more space and the spawn was distributed a bit more, but Hythloth doesn't allow it. Hytloth only has Balis in the depths from the third level on - at normal times, so please, what are they doing on the first floor? In comparison to the Chaos Shrine - there I can park the annoying lower spawn further down in the botany without killing them. That's not possible here in Hythloth - it happens exactly that what Larisa describes.

 

As I said, what annoys me a lot about the "Goldies" there is the exaggeratedly high number of hitpoints to be fought, especially exclusive to the Balron. The basic idea was to use these beasts to avoid afk farmers, but after reading various postings here and in the other forum, I can't shake off the impression that the whole thing is once again a homemade problem from ATlantik, since it seems that once again a few wimps or particularly important people don't get their fun out of the game, while we keep getting the boomerang for it through this design and take the blame for it.

 

It's good that many more people now realise that the paragons are not running optimally - especially the balrons. It's good that more voices are now being raised by tamers who have had similar experiences. Not everyone plays their Tamers in a super-styled gaming room at home, but perhaps only on a single monitor with one computer.


#20



#21
I hate your abbreviations - really - what is BS supposed to mean now?

BS = Bull Shit = a lie

#22
I didn't start this thread as an effort to point out any level of imbalance between classes.  I know its a sore point for many players, and I do sympathize, but it wasn't the point of my post.  This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment).  I fully admit I was baiting the melee community a little with the suggestion of no mounts.  The logic does apply though.  Put everyone on equal footing. (sorry, couldn't help myself  >:) )

  I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them.  I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that.  I've got melee characters that I'm sure if I dusted them off would get more drops that the tamer, but I like taming.  That's what I choose to play and I'll live with the consequences of not getting as large a slice of the pie, I just want an opportunity to sit at the table.  Even with a zero slot mount you could argue tamers are still disadvantaged because the pet wont run the same speed.  As a community though, I think we'd much rather deal with that problem than no mount at all.
#23
Wrac said:
As a community though, I think we'd much rather deal with that problem than no mount at all.
To this and your original point, I'd actually prefer if immersion was the starting point for all these systems we debate about.

As much as I and every other warrior would hate it, we shouldn't be able to ride a mount into a dungeon or any other cave or underground system. If we were somehow to coax the pet inside I can't imagine they wouldn't buck us right off or being so closed to the ceiling wouldn't impede our swinging movement.

Only tamers, who have cultivated special relationships with their pets, should be able to use them indoors/underground like that.

But here's where people will argue that it's been this way for 24 years and it works fine, thank you very much. "Don't fix what isn't 'broken!'" Even if the developers did make such a drastic change, I cannot image they would enjoy listening to people complain on the forums and the meet'n'greet about it until the end of time.
#24
After doing this last luck hour different from the rest I have changed my mind.

We have no working doors on LS.  I have heard players from other shards putting the Balrons away and getting many drops from the rest of the spawn.  

So, I went to second floor.  Spent 5 minutes dragging all the Balron paragons past the slippery hall so I could have the whole floor to myself.  I set my 2 tamers in the most northern room.  It was full but I emptied it and left them there.

Clicked my statue and ran around killing everything with my Swords paladin.  I died once to a Hell hound and wisp para.  Only 3 or 4 Demon paras popped, EoO and AI kills those fast.

@Wrac ; I got 12 drops that hour and was killing things as fast as I could.  I also do not see the 60 drops per hour players brag about.  Bought me a Demon platter.

That crowded room turn out to be a bust.  Those 2 guys got 3 drops total that hour. Once you clear a room, the spawn rate is very low.  like 1 demon a minute.

So, if you scout the dungeon a casual player can sit in a room and kill things as slow as they want to.  If they want more they can control 2 rooms.  

I think LS is the only shard with no doors so you can move the Para Balrons away from you.

Don't be a @Larisa and expect to run up and down the first floor hall and not expect someone to run a paragon by you.  And ooo they have more HP  Same thing!!  Just fight longer.

To wrap it up.  This dungeon has a place for ALL level players and templates.  You just have to put a little effort in to find your corner.
#25
Pawain said:
After doing this last luck hour different from the rest I have changed my mind.

We have no working doors on LS.  I have heard players from other shards putting the Balrons away and getting many drops from the rest of the spawn.  

So, I went to second floor.  Spent 5 minutes dragging all the Balron paragons past the slippery hall so I could have the whole floor to myself.  I set my 2 tamers in the most northern room.  It was full but I emptied it and left them there.

Clicked my statue and ran around killing everything with my Swords paladin.  I died once to a Hell hound and wisp para.  Only 3 or 4 Demon paras popped, EoO and AI kills those fast.

@ Wrac  I got 12 drops that hour and was killing things as fast as I could.  I also do not see the 60 drops per hour players brag about.  Bought me a Demon platter.

That crowded room turn out to be a bust.  Those 2 guys got 3 drops total that hour. Once you clear a room, the spawn rate is very low.  like 1 demon a minute.

So, if you scout the dungeon a casual player can sit in a room and kill things as slow as they want to.  If they want more they can control 2 rooms.  

I think LS is the only shard with no doors so you can move the Para Balrons away from you.

Don't be a @ Larisa and expect to run up and down the first floor hall and not expect someone to run a paragon by you.  And ooo they have more HP  Same thing!!  Just fight longer.

To wrap it up.  This dungeon has a place for ALL level players and templates.  You just have to put a little effort in to find your corner.
I'm not really sure what this has to do with my original post.   Tamers who are unmounted are at a strategic disadvantage.  This was my point.  The current event is just one example, but it is a persistent issue. 
Did you park your tamer in a crowded area and live through repeated instances of mounted players dragging paragons through you?  No... that's not what you did at all.  You parked them in isolated rooms while you ran rampant on a dexxer character.  What on earth was your point?  That the taming community should be satisfied with marginalized opportunity for play?  Super, but again, not the point I was arguing at all.
By the way, you're also wrong that the paragons here are the same with only more HP.   I mean we cant lore the balrons to be sure but what I can tell you is that I can kill paragon balrons at Chaos with no bandaging or healing, just running consume on my pet Cu.  Dog will never drop below 90%.  The same dog in Hythloth right now gets wrecked by balrons unless I'm backing up the consume with constant vetting, so its not simply a matter of more HP.  Dont get me wrong, with 120 disco and 120 vet I can absolutely solo them, but these are an entirely different animal that the chaos shrine.  If you're gonna claim otherwise, back it up with more than "ooo".  Give us hard numbers.  Run a data log and show us a report.  
 

#26
My tamers use Tritons there and are not Gargoyles.  One is in Centaur form.  They can go anywhere.  They have the advantage of Invisibility.

You are correct I do not understand your point.  My tamers do not have the problems yours do. I don't run when a paragon approaches. If i am not interested in that fight I stand still and let it pass.

Sure you die once in a while.  So does any other template. They all die equal here.

Use orange petals and poison does not make you get aggroed again.

Do not step on other templates to bring yours up!  Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.
#27
See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob
#28
McDougle said:
See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob
Do you ever post anything constructive?  Just whine and cry because the game does not do what you want?  Gargoyles have been out for years. Were they different last month?  Nope.  Learn to play one if you want to be one.  How common is it to have 3 hell hounds in the same floor even.
At least make up BS that could happen.

I die a lot on my armored swampy  whaa wha wha.
Have some cheese with your whine.
#29
Pawain said:
McDougle said:
See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob
Do you ever post anything constructive?  Just whine and cry because the game does not do what you want?  Gargoyles have been out for years. Were they different last month?  Nope.  Learn to play one if you want to be one.  How common is it to have 3 hell hounds in the same floor even.
At least make up BS that could happen.

I die a lot on my armored swampy  whaa wha wha.
Have some cheese with your whine.
So you are willing to admit it is a huge problem?
#30
I don't run up and down the first floor hallway...I do happen to have runes marked for the first, second AND third floors and play on all three. I NEVER come in the front entrance, I know how to play.

You say so they have more HP, just fight longer? Well I can't...I don't have millions of platinum of gold to spend on an OP pet and gear that can handle a paragon balron. The other paragons my pet can handle just fine, though it takes longer then most because he's not scrolled out to 120 everything. You expect everyone to be able to play like you...well we don't do stop making others feel inferior.
#31
Pawain said:
McDougle said:
See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob
Do you ever post anything constructive?  
Funny, I was wondering the same about you.

Pawain said:



Do not step on other templates to bring yours up!  Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.
When did I step on any other template,  I said tamers are at a disadvantage being unmounted.  Again, if it's not a disadvantage, no mounts in dungeons should have zero impact on any class.

Pawain said:


Do not step on other templates to bring yours up!  Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.
I wondered when the "git gud nub" comments would start.  Ignorant bullies usually fall back to this argument pretty quickly when they cant back up their position with reason and logic.  Again, If it's an issue allowing tamers to be mounted, please explain how/why that would be an issue.
#32
McDougle said:
Pawain said:
McDougle said:
See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob
Do you ever post anything constructive?  Just whine and cry because the game does not do what you want?  Gargoyles have been out for years. Were they different last month?  Nope.  Learn to play one if you want to be one.  How common is it to have 3 hell hounds in the same floor even.
At least make up BS that could happen.

I die a lot on my armored swampy  whaa wha wha.
Have some cheese with your whine.
So you are willing to admit it is a huge problem?
I admit there has never been an issue except for the one you are imagining.  Grow Up.
#33
Wrac said:
Pawain said:
McDougle said:
See damage reduction isn't important just because when we both get hit with 3 60 point breath attacks i take 36 less is irrelevant get gud noob
Do you ever post anything constructive?  
Funny, I was wondering the same about you.

Pawain said:



Do not step on other templates to bring yours up!  Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.
When did I step on any other template,  I said tamers are at a disadvantage being unmounted.  Again, if it's not a disadvantage, no mounts in dungeons should have zero impact on any class.

Pawain said:


Do not step on other templates to bring yours up!  Learn to play it better. Leave others alone.
I wondered when the "git gud nub" comments would start.  Ignorant bullies usually fall back to this argument pretty quickly when they cant back up their position with reason and logic.  Again, If it's an issue allowing tamers to be mounted, please explain how/why that would be an issue.
I guess you forgot your original post where you said other player types should not have mounts.
Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..  Explain again why you can not mount a Cu?

Here something constructive.  Unlike anything you and Mc dougle post.
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9602/tips-and-hints-for-treasures-of-die-loth

Maybe you should have read that first and got better?

#34

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..  


No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.    

#35
Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..  


No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.    

Many templates are built around the ability to move, whether on mount or flying.  I can make you a four slot Triton build that allows you to ride a horse if you want.  Just find a Triton with over 200STR and 125 Wrestling.
#36
Wrac said:
I didn't start this thread as an effort to point out any level of imbalance between classes.  I know its a sore point for many players, and I do sympathize, but it wasn't the point of my post.  This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment).  I fully admit I was baiting the melee community a little with the suggestion of no mounts.  The logic does apply though.  Put everyone on equal footing. (sorry, couldn't help myself  >:) )

  I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them.  I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that.  I've got melee characters that I'm sure if I dusted them off would get more drops that the tamer, but I like taming.  That's what I choose to play and I'll live with the consequences of not getting as large a slice of the pie, I just want an opportunity to sit at the table.  Even with a zero slot mount you could argue tamers are still disadvantaged because the pet wont run the same speed.  As a community though, I think we'd much rather deal with that problem than no mount at all.
 This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment). 

And what would this "Design Flaw" be, if I may ask, if not an imbalance in the game ?

I mean, by Design, you have 1 Template being able to be largely more effective as other templates, and this would not be an imbalance, by Design ?

Go figure....

I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them.  I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that. 

Well, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with scraping much less drops on a Template other then a Warrior...

And you know why ?

Because if the Rewards are set with a given (high) cost, I need to imagine that, this derives from Warriors being able to get drops a go-go....

If the cost for Rewards was set at a lower number, to be in line with players who can "scrape" 5 or 6 drops an hour, then Warriors, with their much higher drops rate, would be able to get tons of these Rewards....

Unfortunately, by setting then the Rewards' cost so that Warriors cannot get "too many", with their much higher drops rate, the "other" Templates, having a much lower drops' rate, have it really hard to be able to earn the nicer and costlier Rewards.

That is why, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with other Templates having a much lower drops' rate as compared to Warriors...

It is a gross imbalance, and, to my opinion, if should get fixed, somehow.
#37
@popps Lets go with your kill paragon get drop, I'd have a thousand by now.  On my tamers LOL.

If it were just for Balrons my tamers would just have 500.  My warrior has not got 500 yet.

Stop being jealous of others that are more efficient at getting drops.  Those who are getting more are bypassing paragons and are not who we should emulate.
#38
Pawain said:
I got 12 drops that hour and was killing things as fast as I could.  I also do not see the 60 drops per hour players brag about.
Try it again, but this time, with a Dexer using 2,100 Luck and also using a Store bought Potion of Fortune and then let us know how close to those 60 drops in that 1 hour you can get....
#39
popps said:
Pawain said:
I got 12 drops that hour and was killing things as fast as I could.  I also do not see the 60 drops per hour players brag about.
Try it again, but this time, with a Dexer using 2,100 Luck and also using a Store bought Potion of Fortune and then let us know how close to those 60 drops in that 1 hour you can get....
I use a macer.  Would never be able to make a suit that had luck and have the stamina needed for a War Hammer.

I do not choose to mess with a luck suit.  So therefor I get less drops?  Or they are doing what I said and avoiding paragons, I kinda like the challenge.  All the high drop people are on shards that have working doors.

We make choices and we accept the results.  Try that instead of wanting your cook to get drops cause they made blackrock stew.
#40
popps said:
Wrac said:
I didn't start this thread as an effort to point out any level of imbalance between classes.  I know its a sore point for many players, and I do sympathize, but it wasn't the point of my post.  This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment).  I fully admit I was baiting the melee community a little with the suggestion of no mounts.  The logic does apply though.  Put everyone on equal footing. (sorry, couldn't help myself  >:) )

  I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them.  I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that.  I've got melee characters that I'm sure if I dusted them off would get more drops that the tamer, but I like taming.  That's what I choose to play and I'll live with the consequences of not getting as large a slice of the pie, I just want an opportunity to sit at the table.  Even with a zero slot mount you could argue tamers are still disadvantaged because the pet wont run the same speed.  As a community though, I think we'd much rather deal with that problem than no mount at all.
 This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment). 

And what would this "Design Flaw" be, if I may ask, if not an imbalance in the game ?

I mean, by Design, you have 1 Template being able to be largely more effective as other templates, and this would not be an imbalance, by Design ?

Go figure....

I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them.  I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that. 

Well, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with scraping much less drops on a Template other then a Warrior...

And you know why ?

Because if the Rewards are set with a given (high) cost, I need to imagine that, this derives from Warriors being able to get drops a go-go....

If the cost for Rewards was set at a lower number, to be in line with players who can "scrape" 5 or 6 drops an hour, then Warriors, with their much higher drops rate, would be able to get tons of these Rewards....

Unfortunately, by setting then the Rewards' cost so that Warriors cannot get "too many", with their much higher drops rate, the "other" Templates, having a much lower drops' rate, have it really hard to be able to earn the nicer and costlier Rewards.

That is why, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with other Templates having a much lower drops' rate as compared to Warriors...

It is a gross imbalance, and, to my opinion, if should get fixed, somehow.
popps said:
Wrac said:
I didn't start this thread as an effort to point out any level of imbalance between classes.  I know its a sore point for many players, and I do sympathize, but it wasn't the point of my post.  This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment).  I fully admit I was baiting the melee community a little with the suggestion of no mounts.  The logic does apply though.  Put everyone on equal footing. (sorry, couldn't help myself  >:) )

  I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them.  I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that.  I've got melee characters that I'm sure if I dusted them off would get more drops that the tamer, but I like taming.  That's what I choose to play and I'll live with the consequences of not getting as large a slice of the pie, I just want an opportunity to sit at the table.  Even with a zero slot mount you could argue tamers are still disadvantaged because the pet wont run the same speed.  As a community though, I think we'd much rather deal with that problem than no mount at all.
 This was an effort to point out design flaws that keep a significant portion of the player community from having the same opportunity to enjoy the game (unless hiding or death runs are your idea of enjoyment). 

And what would this "Design Flaw" be, if I may ask, if not an imbalance in the game ?

I mean, by Design, you have 1 Template being able to be largely more effective as other templates, and this would not be an imbalance, by Design ?

Go figure....

I see the same threads on the boards that were referenced above, players getting 60+ drops in an hour... good for them.  I can scrape about 5 or 6 drops per hour as a 6x 120 tamer and I'm fine with that. 

Well, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with scraping much less drops on a Template other then a Warrior...

And you know why ?

Because if the Rewards are set with a given (high) cost, I need to imagine that, this derives from Warriors being able to get drops a go-go....

If the cost for Rewards was set at a lower number, to be in line with players who can "scrape" 5 or 6 drops an hour, then Warriors, with their much higher drops rate, would be able to get tons of these Rewards....

Unfortunately, by setting then the Rewards' cost so that Warriors cannot get "too many", with their much higher drops rate, the "other" Templates, having a much lower drops' rate, have it really hard to be able to earn the nicer and costlier Rewards.

That is why, to my opinion, it is wrong to be fine with other Templates having a much lower drops' rate as compared to Warriors...

It is a gross imbalance, and, to my opinion, if should get fixed, somehow.
Ok so i see how popps needs this to work first my bard must come in and disco them then and only then would tamers come and weaken them before the warriors were released after the battle item id experts open the corpses at which time everyone receives a drop
#41
Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..  


No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.    

 You wrote:
The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me.
—-

Please try to be concise and not be so popp-long-winded and state your point. There is no prize for longest post.

You want to use a human tamer with obviously 5 slot pet so you can’t mount. Then instead of asking for what you need you asked for other templates to be brought down to the same level to equalise the playing field. This is not selfish then what. It is so popp-like and repeating like a broken record for past events. 

For the champspawn, please BAN tamers or forbid them to bring Pets because the Champspawn boss are so Anti-warrior. 
#42
For any vet players it should be obvious why the events are designed not to let you stay in the comfort in one location and mine your way 24/7. This happened during Treasures of Tokuno.

The new system favours anyone who keep moving around quickly and clear spawns like the classic champspawn. Some guys still parked their pets in a single room while they watched Netflix but do not expect a good drop rate.

Typically I can get up to 8 or 10 drops an hour without luck statue and 500 luck on my gear. This is active playing by running around and getting chased by Paragons, or luring them and dying many times in the process.

Or someone who prefers to macro attended or sit around relax watching movies while looking at the screen will earn slower. All kill, all kill, all kill *munch pop corn*.
#43
Larisa said:
I keep saying that the game hates my tamer...she has more problems then any tamer I know...I think it's because of the blackrock..I seriously do.... she's had issues ever since.


I had the blackrock fever too and now I carry a little piece to remind me of it. They say it's just a totem but ... it gives me a sense of security :p
#44
Everyone gets overwhelmed at some point in Hyloth right now and everyone drags something somewhere someone else doesn't really want it to be or especially NEED it to be. I'll be working with another mage or a tamer to just kind of hang in one spot and here comes a melee player running with an urgency we all know. Oh look, this time it's a tamer. Or another mage. Or whatever. And I invis or just turn to the wall and hold my breath as a para anything goes by ... If I don't see it far enough in advance to get a spell ready ... I'm in for some pain!! LOL!

The only way to keep things in control to to communicate with the other players. There is always going to be some jerk who wants to farm when and where they want to farm but a well-organized group and counter that.
#45
My thoughts are, is it the design? or the players? Personally I lean towards 'players'.  I'm playing on my oldest character, the one who's name I use here.  She's a warrior. Do I run past someone who is trying to fight a paragon and drag it away? no. What I do is, if they look to be struggling, I stop by them and join in, taking some of the pressure off and lessening the chance, if the other player is a tamer, of the paragon re-targeting them instead of the pet. Mostly they'll reciprocate and drop a heal on me if the pet doesn't need it. If they don't need help, I turn around and go the other way.
I can't kill a paragon balron alone, but I'll wade in if there's someone around who seems willing to back me up a bit. Not an organised group, just a player who'll help. 

There have been times when I've been fighting something and someone has dragged other stuff to me. That's mostly when I die, or when it's my own silly fauit, like forgetting to re-cast protection after the last death. With protection I may have survived the 2 paragon hell hounds that were following the mage who ran up next to me and then invised. I'd forgotten, so I died.

Mostly when folk run towing a paragon, if I stand absolutely still, not even swinging a weapon, they'll run straight by. 

I don't leave my dead swampy littering up the dungeon. I have it on a pet ball, when I rez, I summon it. sometimes there's a tamer at the entrance who will rez it for me. If not I go home and either log in a tamer on a second account or use a potion on it.  I keep an insured dragon barding deed in my pack for when the current one breaks.

Conclussion: The experience is a lot more pleasurable when I, and others, don't play selfishly. I help folk where I can, they notice and then help me. We all have more fun.
#46
If there's a way they could tone the spawn rate to # of people in and out of dungeon so that on the Origins and Bajas etc we don't face the same spawn rate as the pac,cats etc. 
#47
I just wish that some people on Origin would actually listen and help. There are some who do but in the dungeon? It's every man for themselves. 

(Thank you for the PS's by the way!)

I say all the time if you can't kill a paragon balron, don't kill the normal ones...lock em up in a room somewhere...I'll throw a heal on someone runnin past me, I tried to help a certain archer the other day at the maze part from lvl 1 to lvl 2...there was a paragon deamon in there which I can kill no problem. My pet wanted to eat everything behind that door lol but I did the All Stop, All Stay before I was going to open the door...here comes this archer (Who's bones I find a  LOT in the cemetery) she flings an arrow at the paragon and runs off, everything else comes out and kills my pet because it got overwhelmed and I was just trying to help and she was just being greedy and wanted the paragon. 🙁

Which is why I am a solo player now.
#48
popps said:
There is one type of a Template, the Warrior, in various variations, which rules it all, getting drops a go-go (I heard of someone with a Dexer, using the Store bought Potion, getting 60 drops in 1 hour...) and then, all of the others, including Tamers as well as other Templates, who lag behind, getting the left overs from Warriors if there is too many around, or having to play at off hours when Warriors are not around..... 
@popps this statement really bothers me as it is so insanely inflated that it has to be made up. Rather that is by the mysterious "someone" or by you it lacks any creditability. I have been using a warrior and two Store bought Potions a day since the beginning. I average 20 drops an hour with a high of 25. Is it possible someone has gotten more - sure, but really do you expect anyone to believe 60 drops an hour? That statement does more to destroy any hint of honesty your posts could have then it does to support your view.  
#49
More ps on way just couldn't find them 
#50
Riner said:
popps said:
There is one type of a Template, the Warrior, in various variations, which rules it all, getting drops a go-go (I heard of someone with a Dexer, using the Store bought Potion, getting 60 drops in 1 hour...) and then, all of the others, including Tamers as well as other Templates, who lag behind, getting the left overs from Warriors if there is too many around, or having to play at off hours when Warriors are not around..... 
@ popps this statement really bothers me as it is so insanely inflated that it has to be made up. Rather that is by the mysterious "someone" or by you it lacks any creditability. I have been using a warrior and two Store bought Potions a day since the beginning. I average 20 drops an hour with a high of 25. Is it possible someone has gotten more - sure, but really do you expect anyone to believe 60 drops an hour? That statement does more to destroy any hint of honesty your posts could have then it does to support your view.  
@Riner

It was mentioned by someone who plays Atlantic, on a popular Discord channel that some Ultima Online players use.

And, actually, the number used was " 60+ " ......
#51
They got 60+, in the snow, uphill, both ways. 
#52
Picture on stratics someone with 1k 
#53
Seth said:
Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..  


No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.    

 You wrote:
The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me.
—-


Nobody is forcing you to open or continue to read this thread, just saying.  I even started with a warning that it was a long post.  

To your last comment about banning tamers... below is a you tube link to a sub 17 minute solo champ spawn... Rikktor.  Spoiler alert, not a tamer. I'm five pages deep of videos showing sampire solo clears, one archer... no tamers.  None.  I'm not saying a tamer cant do it, of course they can, but to say champs are slanted toward tamers is preposterous.

Hope this post was short enough for you.  Enjoy the video.




 
#54
McDougle said:
Picture on stratics someone with 1k 

Search "treasures of Hythloth 1 hour challenge on youtube.
Sampire on yamato using a potion of fortune, 58 drops in one hour.  Video was posted October 5 so one day into the event.  Realistically at that rate one weekend could get a sampire to 1k drops.


#55
Wrac said:
McDougle said:
Picture on stratics someone with 1k 

Search "treasures of Hythloth 1 hour challenge on youtube.
Sampire on yamato using a potion of fortune, 58 drops in one hour.  Video was posted October 5 so one day into the event.  Realistically at that rate one weekend could get a sampire to 1k drops.


So, the question that comes up is, when the Developers decide the "cost" for the Rewards, are they cosidering these players using Warriors who can get 60 Treasures of Artifact drops in 1 hour, or do they consider those with other templates who struggle to get 5 to 10 drops in 1 hour ?

If they set the cost for the Rewards towards the lower end, to meet the largest majority of UO players "lower" ability to get drops, then, there is the risk that these players being able to get 60+ drops in an hour, would be able to claim way too many Rewards....

If they, instead, set the cost of Rewards as high, so as to limit the number of Rewards which these players using Warriors with a rate of 60+ drops in an hour can get, they basically make these Rewards hardly obtainable by all of the other UO players, using other Templates, who cannot match these drops' rates at all.

See the imbalance ?

It would be much better, to my opinion, if the "earning rate" for Treasures of Artifact drops, was to be, by Design, more "equalized" across the various Templates in some way.

This way, it would be much easier to be able to then set the cost for Rewards, without risking to make them either too easily obtainable by some players, or impossible or too hard to get by some other players.

@Kyronix , this is a Design question about what I think is a Design imbalance. As a Designer of the game, what do you think should then be, the proper way to address this problem for future Treasures of Events ?
#56
@popps you said you made a warrior.  Do you get 60 drops per hour.  I don't on any of mine.  I bet the video shows all the Balrons locked away also.  Someone is better than you at being selfish.  Accept it and move along.
#57
Pawain said:
@ popps you said you made a warrior.  Do you get 60 drops per hour.  I don't on any of mine.  I bet the video shows all the Balrons locked away also.  Someone is better than you at being selfish.  Accept it and move along.
Whether me or you cannot reach that drop rate, now, is not relevant....

What is relevant is, that some did.

Why ?

Because there is always someone who first breaks the ice, so to speak, and then, all of the others follow suit.

Take Sampires, there was a day in Ultima Online when they were non-existant.... then, someone made one, and saw how succesfull it was....

Today, we can see them all over the place, andall of their variations....

So, whether you and me, now, cannot reach the 60 drops an hour, does not mean that, for next Treasures of Event, a whole lot of players will be able to.... following suit with those who now have "broken the ice ", so to speak....

Which, to my opinion, does involve a Design problem....

The Designers need to set a cost for Rewards.... that is obvious..... yet, if there is such a disparity in the earning rate for Treasures of Artifact drops among playersusing different Templates, how on earth can they set the cost for Rewards in a way that it is nor too low for some (those with a higher drop rate), but neither too high for some others (those with a lower drop rate) ?

When different Templates have such a disparity in the ability to get drops, to my opinion, it becomes a real issue to set a "fair" cost for Rewards....

The way I see it, the best way to address this, should be to more "equalize" different templates' ability to get drops. Then, setting the cost of Rewards should no longer risk being too easy for some using a given Template, or too difficult for others using a different Template, to earn.
#58
popps said:
Pawain said:
@ popps you said you made a warrior.  Do you get 60 drops per hour.  I don't on any of mine.  I bet the video shows all the Balrons locked away also.  Someone is better than you at being selfish.  Accept it and move along.
Whether me or you cannot reach that drop rate, now, is not relevant....

What is relevant is, that some did.

Why ?

Because there is always someone who first breaks the ice, so to speak, and then, all of the others follow suit.

Take Sampires, there was a day in Ultima Online when they were non-existant.... then, someone made one, and saw how succesfull it was....

Today, we can see them all over the place, andall of their variations....

So, whether you and me, now, cannot reach the 60 drops an hour, does not mean that, for next Treasures of Event, a whole lot of players will be able to.... following suit with those who now have "broken the ice ", so to speak....

Which, to my opinion, does involve a Design problem....

The Designers need to set a cost for Rewards.... that is obvious..... yet, if there is such a disparity in the earning rate for Treasures of Artifact drops among playersusing different Templates, how on earth can they set the cost for Rewards in a way that it is nor too low for some (those with a higher drop rate), but neither too high for some others (those with a lower drop rate) ?

When different Templates have such a disparity in the ability to get drops, to my opinion, it becomes a real issue to set a "fair" cost for Rewards....

The way I see it, the best way to address this, should be to more "equalize" different templates' ability to get drops. Then, setting the cost of Rewards should no longer risk being too easy for some using a given Template, or too difficult for others using a different Template, to earn.
They broke the ice using a sampire.  There are hundreds who have them.  Why are they not getting the same drops? Stop worrying about something a handful are doing.  You do know that many UO players have 10+ Plates.  Do you?  UO is entertainment, when it stops being that, find a new game or go to a movie instead.

What do you want the devs to do?  Make it so we get one drop an hour?  While the ones who use the game mechanics to the best advantage get 10?   I'd rather keep my 5 per hour and 10 with luck statue.
#59
Pawain said:

What do you want the devs to do?  Make it so we get one drop an hour?  While the ones who use the game mechanics to the best advantage get 10?   I'd rather keep my 5 per hour and 10 with luck statue.
This is, or I should better say, it has become, after the Age of Shadows, a game increasingly dependant on items.

Players play for items, items are what keep a lot of players maintain interest in the game.

These "Treasures of" Events, are all about items, IMHO.

They are, at least to my viewing, a rinse and repeat, repetitive killing of MoBs in order to get drops which in turn, permit to players to get Rewards. Items....

Hence, these Events are ALL about the Rewards, pretty much.

And the Rewards need to be assigned a cost for players to claim them.

Yet, with so much a large disparity in drops' rate among different Templates, when setting the cost for Rewards it could either be set too high, not to have those players who have a high drop rate be able to get them a go-go, by the tons, but this would cause to players using Templates that are not so effective to then be incapacitated to get the rewards which they would like, or set the Rewards cost at a more reasonable number of drops to help out those players using Templates disadvantaged to get drops to be able to get their Rewards, but this would then see those players using Templates with a much higher drop rate, to be able to get lots and lots of these Rewards.

Like it or not, it is an imbalance which, to my opinion, stems from the Design of these Events which, evidently, favour particularly 1 type of a Template in being able to get a much higher drop rate of these Treasures of Artifacts.

What would I want the Developers to do ?

Simply, to find a way to close this imbalance GAP in between different Templates being used and have Events which, moreless, will make it so that, using different Templates, would not result in such a big difference in the rate of drops which a player can get.

This way, the cost set for the Rewards, would be more equally reachable by any and all players, regardless of what Template they were to use, to participate to the Events.

That is at least how I see it.
#60
Whaa whaa whaa I did a luck hour and only got 10 drops on my Melee toon.  Devs hurry and fix this!  Someone else gets 60 drops and hour.  I avoided all the Balrons and just killed stuff as fast as I could for an hour It is not fair I did not get 60 drops, O whoa is me!!

Make a clicky for drops so I can get everything 50 times!
#61
Wrac said:
McDougle said:
Picture on stratics someone with 1k 

Search "treasures of Hythloth 1 hour challenge on youtube.
Sampire on yamato using a potion of fortune, 58 drops in one hour.  Video was posted October 5 so one day into the event.  Realistically at that rate one weekend could get a sampire to 1k drops.


The problem is potion of fortune, not the mounted warrior.
#62
Wrac said:
Seth said:
Wrac said:

Your whole post is tearing down other templates for your own selfish wants..  


No, It's not and I think you understand that, but you just can't stand the idea that someone would dare to contradict you.

I suggested all mounted combat or all combat on foot... didnt attack any other templates.    

 You wrote:
The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me.
—-


Nobody is forcing you to open or continue to read this thread, just saying.  I even started with a warning that it was a long post.  

To your last comment about banning tamers... below is a you tube link to a sub 17 minute solo champ spawn... Rikktor.  Spoiler alert, not a tamer. I'm five pages deep of videos showing sampire solo clears, one archer... no tamers.  None.  I'm not saying a tamer cant do it, of course they can, but to say champs are slanted toward tamers is preposterous.

Hope this post was short enough for you.  Enjoy the video.




 
So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 

#63
Pawain said:
Whaa whaa whaa I did a luck hour and only got 10 drops on my Melee toon.  Devs hurry and fix this!  Someone else gets 60 drops and hour.  I avoided all the Balrons and just killed stuff as fast as I could for an hour It is not fair I did not get 60 drops, O whoa is me!!

Make a clicky for drops so I can get everything 50 times!

More condescension and bullying because you don’t agree with another players’ opinion.  Very mature. 
Here’s a thread on this board where you admit you avoided hyping the Balron Bone armor for fear they would antique it, but I’m sure you’re being completely honest about those ten drops during luck hour.   o:)
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9559/balron-bone-armor-why-bother#latest

#64
Seth said:
So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 
My only mention of sampires, other than my original suggestion that tamers be allowed a mount and still have access to a five slot pet, was in reply to the repeated and unnecessary attacks posted here, primarily by you and one other poster.  As long as you keep attacking, I’ll keep defending.

#65
Wrac said:
Seth said:
So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 
My only mention of sampires, other than my original suggestion that tamers be allowed a mount and still have access to a five slot pet, was in reply to the repeated and unnecessary attacks posted here, primarily by you and one other poster.  As long as you keep attacking, I’ll keep defending.


We are not attacking, but contributing constructively as to why you should not make everyone run on foot in Hythloth. It is fine to accept defeat and become a sour grape and complain about others attacking you when you lost the argument.

Alright, I will stay out of this thread unless you have a positive counter-argument to why the Dev should change the event so drastically in your favour - without comparing and attacking other gamer's templates in the first place. 

#66
Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.
This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.
Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.
Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.
#67
Seth said:


We are not attacking, but contributing constructively 

"tamers hide behind pets"- You.
"Ban tamers from champs" - You.
I'm surprised if this is your idea of constructive.

After the "ban tamers" post, I replied with the Rikktor 17 minute solo video.  Wasn't meant to tear down sampires, but to illustrate that you were wrong about champs favoring tamers.  How else would you like me to have made that point?

Now... If we can swing back to the crux of my original post, can anyone tell me how it would imbalance the game to allow human/elf tamers to use a five slot pet and still move at the same speed as every other template in the game?  Unless I missed it, I still haven't seen a single post addressing that.
#68
Wrac said:
Seth said:


We are not attacking, but contributing constructively 

"tamers hide behind pets"- You.
"Ban tamers from champs" - You.
I'm surprised if this is your idea of constructive.

Yes, those are counters to your first attack in the original post:

 Being a non gargoyle tamer using a 5 slot pet means I am on foot at all times. The big issue I’m facing is that quite a few times while I’m hunting a hallway or side room, here comes melee player X on horseback running at Mach 3 pulling paragons right to me! - You

3. Don’t allow mounted combat within the dungeon at all - You


#69
Wrac said:
Pawain said:
Whaa whaa whaa I did a luck hour and only got 10 drops on my Melee toon.  Devs hurry and fix this!  Someone else gets 60 drops and hour.  I avoided all the Balrons and just killed stuff as fast as I could for an hour It is not fair I did not get 60 drops, O whoa is me!!

Make a clicky for drops so I can get everything 50 times!

More condescension and bullying because you don’t agree with another players’ opinion.  Very mature. 
Here’s a thread on this board where you admit you avoided hyping the Balron Bone armor for fear they would antique it, but I’m sure you’re being completely honest about those ten drops during luck hour.   o:)
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9559/balron-bone-armor-why-bother#latest

Sorry, unlike you I don't make up stuff.  I guess I am just not as good as others that can use the same template and get more drops.  Most likely because I have very slow reflexes and I use like 2 macros when others probably use more.

I was disappointed in just 10 but last night I got 12.  Which is as many as I got when I use my 1150 luck in the other 4 dynamic dungeons.  They seem consistent to me.  I do like this one because it has more spawn.  There was a lot of running around and looking for targets in Wildfire.  This dungeon has enough spawn to stay on one floor and kill kill kill.

Yes I was concerned the armor would be antique so I did not want to get my hopes up.  Is that a problem? The last dungeon had antique items.  The guy I used tonight is wearing it.  I really like the extra HP it has.  Would be nice if they made arms and gorget with the same stats.

I am quite happy with the 272 points I have at the moment.  There is still another 40 days or so.
I have the deco suits I want and I have bought the deco items.  The pentagram has moving graphics, it is sweet deco.  I would like 2 more Epaulets and 2 more Bone chests.  And I do need 2 more Boots, those are always useful.  Ill be quite busy and having fun with just 10 drops per hour.
I used my Fencer last night for a while.

On LS the drops are selling for 5M each still. Very good for a new or returning player if they want gold instead of items. 
#70
Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.
This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.
Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.
Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.
Yes, adapt to the gameplay instead of trying to modify the game to one's own advantage. How I wish the Event boss can be changed. 

The poor mounted warrior was running away from Paragons and happened to disturb the OP in his sweet spot standing there eating popcorn watching his pet all kill. The game is all about speed and moving around kill more monsters, and he just want us all to go on foot and slow us down. All he cares is the few Paragon that runs fast and someone running for his life who happen to cross his path. Then he asked to give paragons dismount ability and make everyone go on foot. 

Slower kills, lower drop rate per hour, all because someone insists on playing human tamer on foot and he cannot run. 
#71
^Yup ^
#72
Seth said:

So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 

 We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining.

The point, to my opinion, is not that everyone can make a Warrior and go farm at ease....

The point is, that one of the strengths of Ultima Online, has always been its diversity of Templates and the ability to see varied Templates around.

Yet, if ONE Template, the Warrior, be it a Sampire, a Dragoon, an ABC Archer, a "new" Sampire or what other variation of a Warrior, can be, by the Design of the game, so much more succesfull as all of the other Templates that there are, this diversity goes down the drains because then, nost players just go and use Warriors for their gameplay, because, and by far, way more effective...

I have said it many times, it is not a hatred against Warriors, but, rather, a matter of game BALANCE.
#73
Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.
This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.
Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.
Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.
Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

Well, while I can see how "splitting a hair " might be a difficullt goal to reach, working towards at least a "decent" balance in between the various Templates in their ability to get drops, should still be aimed to...

And there could be various ways for the Developers to try to reach that balanced out goal....

For example, they could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop...

Sort of like worn Luck but, in this case, not dependant on the Luck factor but on the skill factor....

A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can kill faster.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skill to kill but they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they can kill slower.

And so do the same with Bards, Rogues, etc.

Sure, it would need some testing to "iron out" the various differences in the ability of different Templates to get kills with different skills or, in the case of Rogues, to be able to steal or get drops from hidden chests and what not but, in the end, I would imagine that a somewhat balanced out "equilibrium " could be achieved to moreless make sure that different Templates would moreless get the same drops in the same amount of time (say 1 hour....) even though their killing rates differ much.

This is only 1 example, I would imagine that a Developer could come up with other, better ways to achieve such a balance among Templates in their drops' rates....
#74
Seth said:
Forget ToT, forget drops and drop rates, forget item cost, this boils down to one single factor... which template can kill fastest.
This is not just a UO issue, this is across almost every MMO known to man.  There is always a cookie cutter class that can AoE farm spawns/dungeons etc.
Achieving balance across all classes is a near impossible task and very few MMOs (if any) have ever achieved it.  It's delusional to think the devs can just click their fingers and make everything balanced.

I don't have the solution and from reading this topic, no one else has any 'workable' solutions that aren't flawed or completely one-sided either.
Like every other MMO you can either.. play the class you love to play which is possibly less efficient or.. You adapt and go with the cookie cutter and reap the rewards.  Your choice.
Yes, adapt to the gameplay instead of trying to modify the game to one's own advantage. How I wish the Event boss can be changed. 

The poor mounted warrior was running away from Paragons and happened to disturb the OP in his sweet spot standing there eating popcorn watching his pet all kill. The game is all about speed and moving around kill more monsters, and he just want us all to go on foot and slow us down. All he cares is the few Paragon that runs fast and someone running for his life who happen to cross his path. Then he asked to give paragons dismount ability and make everyone go on foot. 

Slower kills, lower drop rate per hour, all because someone insists on playing human tamer on foot and he cannot run. 
Yes, adapt to the gameplay instead of trying to modify the game to one's own advantage.

It is NOT to one's own advantage to seek out Balance for the various Templates out there but, rather, to ALL players' advantage....

Asking to the Developers to bring Tamers, Bards, Rogues and other Templates which might be used to get these Treasures of Artifact drops to the rate that Warriors can, or, if one prefers, to "drop down" Warriors to a "common denominator " as far as a drop rate in a given time goes with the other Templates possible to get Treasures of Artifact drops, if notseeking out one's own advantage, to my viewing, but, rather, asking for a better Balance in the game which would be in the best interest of all players since it would defend diversity and variety of Templates within it.

At least, that is how I see it.
#75
So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  
Seth said:
So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 


Seth, condescension is not a good look on you. People often lash out when someone mentions balancing because they might have to learn something new and adapt.  I'm sorry to hear you are getting so few drops on this content with your Sampire.  You might want to examine your playstyle and/or template to maximize it better.  I know single melee warriors with no pocket bards or tandem warrior  pulling 50-60 an hour with a potion or 30 without.  Maybe ask around. I don't play a Sampire but I can pull in 40-50 an hour with a potion.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

I actually don't think Wrac's suggestion of everyone on foot is a bad one.  The removal of mounts would stop most luring in, people would only fight what they know they can handle and stop dumping problems in other's laps. If the concern is losing passive abilities from mounting (swampies, etc) then an alternative solution could be a forced walk while mounted in Treasure dungeons.  After all this would add to the immersion as you would not go galloping of into a dungeon at full speed, you would be more cautious.  You would adjust and you would probably pull in the same amount of drops after re-evaluating how you play treasures.  I don't think the dev's are looking to add this type of mechanic however, so your reaction is a bit unwarranted. 

That being said, I suggest you talk to more players in UO.  Not everyone has 7 characters fleshed out on the server they play, that's a very privileged comment to make that shows your lack of understanding of many of the UO player base, especially since the 7th character slot is a paid addon.  Many people who return come back to 1 or 2 characters or can only afford to gear 1 character and yes, some people only like playing one character.  So again, go out there and talk to more people.  Understand who actually plays this game (hint they rarely post here) 

If someone's answer to someone's complaint is "just make an x"  that's not a valid counter argument and just does a disservice to the game.  No, all templates will not preform equally, but when there is a huge gap in performance of dps templates, that is when balance needs to be looked at and adjusted.  Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.

#76
Violet said:
So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  
Seth said:
So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 


Seth, condescension is not a good look on you. People often lash out when someone mentions balancing because they might have to learn something new and adapt.  I'm sorry to hear you are getting so few drops on this content with your Sampire.  You might want to examine your playstyle and/or template to maximize it better.  I know single melee warriors with no pocket bards or tandem warrior  pulling 50-60 an hour with a potion or 30 without.  Maybe ask around. I don't play a Sampire but I can pull in 40-50 an hour with a potion.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

I actually don't think Wrac's suggestion of everyone on foot is a bad one.  The removal of mounts would stop most luring in, people would only fight what they know they can handle and stop dumping problems in other's laps. If the concern is losing passive abilities from mounting (swampies, etc) then an alternative solution could be a forced walk while mounted in Treasure dungeons.  After all this would add to the immersion as you would not go galloping of into a dungeon at full speed, you would be more cautious.  You would adjust and you would probably pull in the same amount of drops after re-evaluating how you play treasures.  I don't think the dev's are looking to add this type of mechanic however, so your reaction is a bit unwarranted. 

That being said, I suggest you talk to more players in UO.  Not everyone has 7 characters fleshed out on the server they play, that's a very privileged comment to make that shows your lack of understanding of many of the UO player base, especially since the 7th character slot is a paid addon.  Many people who return come back to 1 or 2 characters or can only afford to gear 1 character and yes, some people only like playing one character.  So again, go out there and talk to more people.  Understand who actually plays this game (hint they rarely post here) 

If someone's answer to someone's complaint is "just make an x"  that's not a valid counter argument and just does a disservice to the game.  No, all templates will not preform equally, but when there is a huge gap in performance of dps templates, that is when balance needs to be looked at and adjusted.  Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Absolutely well said and quoted for truth.

There is Tamers who have spent weeks, if not months, killing over and over and some more over the same tameable creature in the hope that one with a higher Intensity would spawn which they could then tame and make into a more effective pet.

I do not see this persistence and hard work as any different to what a Warrior might do in looking for their "best" weapon to use...

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

Againt, very well said and quoted again for truth.

For some reasons, beyond my understanding, Tamers are considered the "all kill" Template for easy gameplay which HAS TO BE nerfed more then other Template.... because... reasons...

Well, it has been mentioned and there is videos out there, that using Third Party applications and scripts, Warriors can be used to a much more, largely much more AFK farming advantage as what Tamers might do.

Yet, it is Tamers the ones that get nerfed a go-go and most always end up with the short end of the stick....

All I am asking, is for some BALANCE among the various Templates in these Treasures of Events.

@Kyronix , is it something so terrible to ask for, to see some BALANCE in the Design of what the various Templates can get when it comes to drops' rates in these Treasures of Events ?
#77
popps said:
For example, they could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop...
That is ridiculous.  I think the devs would laugh their asses off if you proposed they code that.
popps said:
A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can kill faster.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skill to kill but they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they can kill slower.
My crafter can't kill as fast as your tamer, and I reeeeeally love and want to use my crafter during these events.
Can I propose that Mobs get nerfed and Tamers pets get nerfed and their kills get slowed down so my crafter can get as many drops as them?!?...

Penalize players for playing optimally?  Don't be ridiculous.
#78
1. Can we stop attacking each other please? Please refer to rule 1 of the Terms of Service listed below
2. I've watched the suggested video and there are a few things that should be taken into consideration before assuming other characters should be able to match it.
  1. The player used the potion of fortune
  2. The player was in the deepest part of the dungeon where creatures with the most fame are most abundant
  3. There is no other player present at any time during the video.
  4. I'm not sure how, and I'm full of admiration, but there have been videos for years showing players far exceeding the skill level of average players. The template used is only part of the equation, the skill of this player is exceptional.
I'm sure several players could match it, given the same circumstances and skill level, but most people are sharing the dungeon with others and don't have that luxury, nor this extraordinary level of game skill. Please be more realistic in your expectations and you will suffer less disappointment.
#79
Violet said:
So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  
Seth said:
So your post is now turning to sour complaints of sampire? 

We all know what sampire can do, which is why we spent so much time and resources building it over the years. All we are doing now is stop anyone trying to delete what the game designed and let us do. 

Before I built my warrior just 5 years ago, I was 30% mage and 70% tamer user. We all have 7 characters per account and you can build a warrior and stop complaining. I have both gargoyle and human tamer with several 5 slots Cu and Triton but we don’t even both complaining. We all have 4x bards, thieves and ninjas and we know when to use each template. Have you played mmorpg before or are you into tamers only? 

This is a forum and its is for users to read. If you don’t write for others to read in mind then please post elsewhere or create your own blog or forum. I am not the only one complaining about long popp posts. 


Seth, condescension is not a good look on you. People often lash out when someone mentions balancing because they might have to learn something new and adapt.  I'm sorry to hear you are getting so few drops on this content with your Sampire.  You might want to examine your playstyle and/or template to maximize it better.  I know single melee warriors with no pocket bards or tandem warrior  pulling 50-60 an hour with a potion or 30 without.  Maybe ask around. I don't play a Sampire but I can pull in 40-50 an hour with a potion.

As for your constant dig regarding tamers and how much you have worked on your sampire: many tamers spend just as long if not longer with their characters or "weapons".  Does it take a sampire days to make one weapon?  What about finding the perfect weapon worthy of reforging?  Or have to spend hundreds of millions of gold  to complete that single weapon. Just because sampire gear CAN be expensive their investment into their character isn't more than a good tamer into theirs.

Tamers have been nerfed on this content much more than warriors.  Their pets do half damage unlike Sampires who still do full damage to paragons.  They are also on foot if they are human/elf, as are mystics if they want to use summons. They also cannot hide due to the instant reveal. 

I actually don't think Wrac's suggestion of everyone on foot is a bad one.  The removal of mounts would stop most luring in, people would only fight what they know they can handle and stop dumping problems in other's laps. If the concern is losing passive abilities from mounting (swampies, etc) then an alternative solution could be a forced walk while mounted in Treasure dungeons.  After all this would add to the immersion as you would not go galloping of into a dungeon at full speed, you would be more cautious.  You would adjust and you would probably pull in the same amount of drops after re-evaluating how you play treasures.  I don't think the dev's are looking to add this type of mechanic however, so your reaction is a bit unwarranted. 

That being said, I suggest you talk to more players in UO.  Not everyone has 7 characters fleshed out on the server they play, that's a very privileged comment to make that shows your lack of understanding of many of the UO player base, especially since the 7th character slot is a paid addon.  Many people who return come back to 1 or 2 characters or can only afford to gear 1 character and yes, some people only like playing one character.  So again, go out there and talk to more people.  Understand who actually plays this game (hint they rarely post here) 

If someone's answer to someone's complaint is "just make an x"  that's not a valid counter argument and just does a disservice to the game.  No, all templates will not preform equally, but when there is a huge gap in performance of dps templates, that is when balance needs to be looked at and adjusted.  Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.


A optimal different template for a different quest. By the way, I have 3 tamers in 3 accounts and I have more pets than my one warrior who has only 6 weapons (6 slayers). I have 3 x pure mages and 3 x 4 x bards. For thieves, I have two. Bring it on, whatever the events they designed I am Fine. 

Alright, so you are saying Dev should make  dungeon crawl on foot. Let the other players decide, who knows the majority of players will vote in favor and Dev team would finally grant every template the ability to do champspawn, highseas, shadowguard, Doom. 

@Kyronix
They are asking to be fair for every template, so for every content in future please cater for every character type, for every type of events, dungeons, spawns. 

Unbelievable. It is not as if I am the only one playing and if everyone is happy to run on foot so be it. Let them see who in this thread suggested. I have stated my point clearly. 
#80
Mariah said:
1. Can we stop attacking each other please? Please refer to rule 1 of the Terms of Service listed below
2. I've watched the suggested video and there are a few things that should be taken into consideration before assuming other characters should be able to match it.
  1. The player used the potion of fortune
  2. The player was in the deepest part of the dungeon where creatures with the most fame are most abundant
  3. There is no other player present at any time during the video.
  4. I'm not sure how, and I'm full of admiration, but there have been videos for years showing players far exceeding the skill level of average players. The template used is only part of the equation, the skill of this player is exceptional.
I'm sure several players could match it, given the same circumstances and skill level, but most people are sharing the dungeon with others and don't have that luxury, nor this extraordinary level of game skill. Please be more realistic in your expectations and you will suffer less disappointment.
The template used is only part of the equation, the skill of this player is exceptional.

While the Template might be part of the equation, in a game where, by Design, "numbers" are quite a "lot" of that equation, when we have pets who, as Violet has remembered to us, have been had their damage halved , and on the other side we have Warriors who, instead, have the ability to use double slayers, +100% Damage Increase on their suit and, thus, are capable of delivering a hell of a lot of damage in no time, and at the same time they can also leech life, leech mana, leech stamina etc. etc. etc., I am very sorry, but I do not see "how" we can even discuss these different Templates being on an equal footing to start with.......

Tamers have been nerfed for too long, and too much, Warriors, instead, new item after new item, property after property, have been given plenty of tools and some more, to reach where they are now, the most efficient and effective Template to use for hunting, and by far.

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?
#81
Isn't the real issue here no damage reduction available to gargoyles?? Until all races have equal access take your talk of template balance and go
#82
popps said:

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?
Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?  Because I have and play play a varied range of templates because you never know when that oddball template is going to be the best one for a new event. sure when these "Treasures Of" events come out i roll it down to a Sampire and a Tamer, but i have taken my ABC archer in there along with a Myst/Mage/Provo-Bard. I get drops on all of them and currently have in my limited play time (i probably have played an hour for 3-4 days a week since it started, accrued 250 or so drops that I am waiting to to get my suit sets before I turn in. Don't pretend you are speaking "for the little UO player" because you are simply put, not educated in uo enough to do that.
#83
Superfrog said:
popps said:

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?
Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?  Because I have and play play a varied range of templates because you never know when that oddball template is going to be the best one for a new event. sure when these "Treasures Of" events come out i roll it down to a Sampire and a Tamer, but i have taken my ABC archer in there along with a Myst/Mage/Provo-Bard. I get drops on all of them and currently have in my limited play time (i probably have played an hour for 3-4 days a week since it started, accrued 250 or so drops that I am waiting to to get my suit sets before I turn in. Don't pretend you are speaking "for the little UO player" because you are simply put, not educated in uo enough to do that.
Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?

Simply logging in on one's own Shard of choice and going to a Champion Spawn or to the Dungeon Hythloth and have a look at what type of Template players use the most to get their Powerscrolls, the Treasures of Artifact drops, would let one see how Warriors, and their various variations, are by far "THE" most used Template, and for good reasons, because, Design decision after Design decision, it has been made the one Template that most efficiently and most quickly gets the job done.

Personally, while others may see this as a cool thing, I happen to see it as a gross imbalance which kills the diversity of playing much varied Templates in Ultima Online. Diversity, which contributed to help make Ultima Online a great game.

Again, other then fancyness , and the desire to play a Template different then a Warrior "for a change", why would a player want to play a Template that takes 10+ times more to get the same job as one could do using a Warrior or any of its variations, depending on the hunt at hand ?
#84
Remember when Cu's first came out and only elfs could tame and ride and how the hummies cried and cried...
#85
popps said:
Superfrog said:
popps said:

And this, please allow me to be of my opinion, I consider not just a gross imbalance for the game, but one which can greatly hurt Ultima Online since it kills in players the desire to maintain that diversity of Templates which contributed to make Ultima Online a great game.

If Warriors, as a Template, can get the job done in 1/10th of the time as compared to other Templates, why would anyone, other then for fancyness, want to use any other Template to achieve something in the game if they could get the same results but in 1/10th of the time using a Warrior and variations of ?
Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?  Because I have and play play a varied range of templates because you never know when that oddball template is going to be the best one for a new event. sure when these "Treasures Of" events come out i roll it down to a Sampire and a Tamer, but i have taken my ABC archer in there along with a Myst/Mage/Provo-Bard. I get drops on all of them and currently have in my limited play time (i probably have played an hour for 3-4 days a week since it started, accrued 250 or so drops that I am waiting to to get my suit sets before I turn in. Don't pretend you are speaking "for the little UO player" because you are simply put, not educated in uo enough to do that.
Citation needed, where is the data that proves this?

Simply logging in on one's own Shard of choice and going to a Champion Spawn or to the Dungeon Hythloth and have a look at what type of Template players use the most to get their Powerscrolls, the Treasures of Artifact drops, would let one see how Warriors, and their various variations, are by far "THE" most used Template, and for good reasons, because, Design decision after Design decision, it has been made the one Template that most efficiently and most quickly gets the job done.

Personally, while others may see this as a cool thing, I happen to see it as a gross imbalance which kills the diversity of playing much varied Templates in Ultima Online. Diversity, which contributed to help make Ultima Online a great game.

Again, other then fancyness , and the desire to play a Template different then a Warrior "for a change", why would a player want to play a Template that takes 10+ times more to get the same job as one could do using a Warrior or any of its variations, depending on the hunt at hand ?
Again, where is your Proof, I see the same Characters playing when i am playing and they aren't all "Warriors".  There's a couple of Myst/Bards (could have more skills but i only see them utilize these skills). there's an archer that isn't in Vamp form and one that is, about 5 Sampires, a few tamers and a weaver/mage) they have been there when I have time to play on the 3 templates i have been taking in the dungeon. So there's your "Simply logging in on one's own Shard of choice and going to a Champion Spawn or to the Dungeon Hythloth and have a look at what type of Template players use the most" Again, where is YOUR proof that people only use Warrior types? Please refrain from trying to speak for others on this game until you learn a bit more about it. just because you cannot play a template to it's potential, doesn't mean the rest of us cannot, at least that's the way I see it . . .
#86
McDougle said:
Remember when Cu's first came out and only elfs could tame and ride and how the hummies cried and cried...
Stupid Hummies, they need to remember that they taste good with Ketchup.
#87
I was supposed to stay out if this thread, but suddenly I thought of an issue that is unfair to melee template when going on foot. 

Archer - shoot from far away. 
Mages - cast spell from far away. 
Tamer - all kill, pets can run as fast as a Paragon and attack the target. 

Omg, poor melee warrior have to run around in circles and before they can hit anything the monsters died.  😂

Alright, time to pull out my archer or mage for the dismounted dungeon crawl. 
#88
Seth said:
I was supposed to stay out if this thread, but suddenly I thought of an issue that is unfair to melee template when going on foot. 

Archer - shoot from far away. 
Mages - cast spell from far away. 
Tamer - all kill, pets can run as fast as a Paragon and attack the target. 

Omg, poor melee warrior have to run around in circles and before they can hit anything the monsters died.  😂

Alright, time to pull out my archer or mage for the dismounted dungeon crawl. 
Probably best to stay out of it for now, I can feel @Rorschach sharpening his Supremely Accurate Indestructible Quill of Troll slaying in preparation of coming down fast and hard on Poops and myself.  
#89
Superfrog said:
Seth said:
I was supposed to stay out if this thread, but suddenly I thought of an issue that is unfair to melee template when going on foot. 

Archer - shoot from far away. 
Mages - cast spell from far away. 
Tamer - all kill, pets can run as fast as a Paragon and attack the target. 

Omg, poor melee warrior have to run around in circles and before they can hit anything the monsters died.  😂

Alright, time to pull out my archer or mage for the dismounted dungeon crawl. 
Probably best to stay out of it for now, I can feel @ Rorschach sharpening his Supremely Accurate Indestructible Quill of Troll slaying in preparation of coming down fast and hard on Poops and myself.  
Yeah haha  😂
#90
Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I like my tamers as much as the next person but the constant.. "blah blah imbalanced... blah blah unfair... blah blah i want more drops..." is utterly pointless and will get you nowhere other than faster towards a lock!
#91
Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I like my tamers as much as the next person but the constant.. "blah blah imbalanced... blah blah unfair... blah blah i want more drops..." is utterly pointless and will get you nowhere other than faster towards a lock!
Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I did propose a solution that some might not like, but I see it as workable and realistic and it would get the job done for quite a variety of Templates...

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/65893/#Comment_65893

The Developers, could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop , a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, 

Sort of like worn Luck but, in this case, not dependant on the worn Luck factor but, rather, on the skill used in-game factor....

A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can, objectively, kill faster as other types of Templates.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skills to kill, but given how Taming works and is Designed to work, they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they kill slower.

And so do the same with Bards, Rogues, etc.

Sure, it would need some testing to "iron out" the various differences in the ability of different Templates to get kills with different skills or, in the case of Rogues, to be able to steal Treasures of Artifact drops or get them from hidden chests and what not but, in the end, I would imagine that a somewhat balanced out "equilibrium " could be, with due testing, be achieved, to moreless make sure that different Templates would moreless get the same drops in the same amount of time (say 1 hour....) even though their killing rates differ much or, in the case of Rogues, would not exist at all.....

This is only 1 example which I brought up as a starter to favour a discussion on how to better balance out different Templates with different killing rates for these Treasures Of Event.

I would imagine that a Developer could come up with other, better ways to achieve such a balance among Templates in their drops' rates....

I see it as important, though, because the Developers HAVE TO set the cost for these Rewards, and when the Delta between players using Templates much slower at killing and players using Warriors Templates much faster at killing is so huge (60+ drops an hour compared to 5-10 ?), it does become an issue, to my viewing, the setting of Rewards costs...

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ?

Either one, would be wrong, because setting them high, would then make the players using Templates with a slow killing rate and, thus, drop rate per hour, would result in them having huge difficulties in getting the nicer (and more expensive Rewards) while, setting them at a low cost, to permit players using Templates that have a slow killing rate and thus rate of drops, to be able to have access to them, would then enable those players using Warriors to get the highest kill rates and, thus, drops, to get these Rewards by the lots...

And even setting them somewhere in between, would still not be good.... it would still make it hard for those players using Templates with a lower kill rate and, thus, having fewer drops in 1 hour, and still would permit to players using Warriors for the higher kill rates and, thus, drops rate, to be able to get lots of these Rewards.

As I see it, only achieving a "moreless " balanced out, equalized drop rate per hour for the Templates usable in these Events, would then make the cost for Rewards set, fair and balanced for all of them.
#92
popps said:
Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I like my tamers as much as the next person but the constant.. "blah blah imbalanced... blah blah unfair... blah blah i want more drops..." is utterly pointless and will get you nowhere other than faster towards a lock!
Persistently whining about an imbalance fixes absolutely nothing (you know who you are).  Propose sensible well thought out, realistic and workable solutions and they can be debated.

I did propose a solution that some might not like, but I see it as workable and realistic and it would get the job done for quite a variety of Templates...

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/65893/#Comment_65893

The Developers, could adjust the code so that it "sees" what skills are being used to do the kills, and give, when it comes to decide whether that Template is or not awarded a Treasures of Artifact drop , a penalty to a skill that kills too fast, and a bonus to a skill that kills too slowly, 

Sort of like worn Luck but, in this case, not dependant on the worn Luck factor but, rather, on the skill used in-game factor....

A Template uses a Weapon skill to kill faster ? Give them a penalty in their chances to get a drop because they can, objectively, kill faster as other types of Templates.

A Template uses a Pet and, thus, Animal Taming skills to kill, but given how Taming works and is Designed to work, they can do it at a slower pace ? Give them a bonus in their chances to get a drop because they kill slower.

And so do the same with Bards, Rogues, etc.

Sure, it would need some testing to "iron out" the various differences in the ability of different Templates to get kills with different skills or, in the case of Rogues, to be able to steal Treasures of Artifact drops or get them from hidden chests and what not but, in the end, I would imagine that a somewhat balanced out "equilibrium " could be, with due testing, be achieved, to moreless make sure that different Templates would moreless get the same drops in the same amount of time (say 1 hour....) even though their killing rates differ much or, in the case of Rogues, would not exist at all.....

This is only 1 example which I brought up as a starter to favour a discussion on how to better balance out different Templates with different killing rates for these Treasures Of Event.

I would imagine that a Developer could come up with other, better ways to achieve such a balance among Templates in their drops' rates....

I see it as important, though, because the Developers HAVE TO set the cost for these Rewards, and when the Delta between players using Templates much slower at killing and players using Warriors Templates much faster at killing is so huge (60+ drops an hour compared to 5-10 ?), it does become an issue, to my viewing, the setting of Rewards costs...

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ?

Either one, would be wrong, because setting them high, would then make the players using Templates with a slow killing rate and, thus, drop rate per hour, would result in them having huge difficulties in getting the nicer (and more expensive Rewards) while, setting them at a low cost, to permit players using Templates that have a slow killing rate and thus rate of drops, to be able to have access to them, would then enable those players using Warriors to get the highest kill rates and, thus, drops, to get these Rewards by the lots...

And even setting them somewhere in between, would still not be good.... it would still make it hard for those players using Templates with a lower kill rate and, thus, having fewer drops in 1 hour, and still would permit to players using Warriors for the higher kill rates and, thus, drops rate, to be able to get lots of these Rewards.

As I see it, only achieving a "moreless " balanced out, equalized drop rate per hour for the Templates usable in these Events, would then make the cost for Rewards set, fair and balanced for all of them.
Why penalize someone for being better than you? because that's what it boils down to. And you could have gotten several drops in the time you've wasted complaining on the boards about not getting drops. Don't you see the ridiculous nature of this?  Please just stop trying to pretend you know what you're talking about and just go learn how to play the game.
#93
popps said:

I have been asking @ Kyronix  to balance these Event and have different Templates be more "equally" able to get drops yet, the answer which I was given was....

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/60800/#Comment_60800
  • Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of gameplay.

You posted the answer way back on the first page. Accept it and move on. Not everything will change to your liking.
#94
Riner said:
popps said:

I have been asking @ Kyronix  to balance these Event and have different Templates be more "equally" able to get drops yet, the answer which I was given was....

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/60800/#Comment_60800
  • Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of gameplay.

You posted the answer way back on the first page. Accept it and move on. Not everything will change to your liking.
Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".
#95
popps said:

I did propose a solution etc etc..

The essence of your proposal is to penalize someone who plays optimally not balance them, that in itself is unfair and unreasonable, it is not a solution.
popps said:

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ? etc etc
The guy that got 60 drops in 1 hour played optimally and deserves the reward.  He 'chose' to play at a quiet time, he 'chose' to use a warrior, he 'chose' to ignore paragon balrons, he also 'chose' to spend real life money! Yes!  Real life money to improve his drop rate!

By your standard you want to penalize and take that all away from him because he decided to play optimally?  He focused his efforts and deserves the rewards.  For all you know he might play a tamer 90% of the time but understands a warrior is best in this situation.

Spend less time writing a novel and more time focused and killing and you too can reap the rewards.
#96
All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..
#97
What’s frustrating about this forum is that every discussion has to devolve into, at best, a protectionist stance or, at worst, disingenuous cheer leading for the status quo. 

Yes, some content will lend itself to certain playstyles. But a strawman argument of "Well then my crafter should get equal drops!!" neither captures the issue nor adds anything new to the discussion. 

We are talking about a video game here, folks. Acting like tweaking the drop rates slightly or including a system which takes damage types into account (which, btw, already exists because pets do half damage compared to other builds) isn't "punishing someone's success." We're not nationalizing your farm because you have a tractor and your neighbor does not. Trying to make the game more fun via a greater diversity of approaches is the goal; not merely getting drops quicker. 
#98
When my bard gets hit by xxx amount of damage it knocks off my spell songs apply this to vampiric embrace and all is fine 
#99
McDougle said:
All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..
Think of the Children!!
#100
McDougle said:
All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..
Why do you even care about Gargoyles, they cannot wear top hats.
#101
Violet said:
McDougle said:
All this is possible except for damage reduction for gargoyles how long must the gargoyle people suffer even if it has been broken for decades it's never to late to do the right thing..
Why do you even care about Gargoyles, they cannot wear top hats


Maybe they can and that's how they get the damage reduction armored top hats
#102
Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".
Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, you mistyped my handle (perhaps @Mariah or @Rorschach can edit this mistype and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" Warriors suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.
#103
popps said:
Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".
Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, there is no need to mistype my handle (perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can edit these mistypes and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.
Again Popps, just because you cannot do it, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I can get plenty of drops on my tamer to get what I want. as Kyronix said

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game

I bolded what you need to accept. there are instances a tamer is what is needed as well. I use mine when the dungeon is full of Paragon Balrons, I sic my weaver Cu on them, start consume, stand behind them with my bandage macro, and after the Cu has it's full attention the other templates wail on it until dead, rinse and repeat until they are cleared out. I then continue playing on the Tamer for a while and usually get the 10-15 drops per hour my Sampire does.  Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Poops.  
#104
I for one want nothing nerfed the opposite i want everything unnerfed the only difference between a sampire leech rate and a dog archer regen is one is pvp viable the other not so we force everyone to be the same 
#105
Superfrog said:
popps said:
Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".
Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, there is no need to mistype my handle (perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can edit these mistypes and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.
Again Popps, just because you cannot do it, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I can get plenty of drops on my tamer to get what I want. as Kyronix said

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game

I bolded what you need to accept. there are instances a tamer is what is needed as well. I use mine when the dungeon is full of Paragon Balrons, I sic my weaver Cu on them, start consume, stand behind them with my bandage macro, and after the Cu has it's full attention the other templates wail on it until dead, rinse and repeat until they are cleared out. I then continue playing on the Tamer for a while and usually get the 10-15 drops per hour my Sampire does.  Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  
These Treasure of Events is pretty much what we have been getting for a while now and, my understanding is, that they are what we will be getting on also for a while for the future.

Therefore, if their Design is geared towards favouring pretty much a single type of a Template, guess what ? That's what most players will be using to get them the most drops in the least time....

It might look fine to some, but it does not to me because I think that it kills the Templates' variety other then for the occasional 1 or 2 tamers or Bard (unless on trail of a Warrior to buff him/her further up....) that one might still see, rarely, in the Treasures of Events Dungeons.

Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  

It looks like you may again have mistyped my handle... how odd.... again, perhaps @Mariah or @Rorschach can correct that mistype.... you keep bringing my argument on a personal basis as if I kept discussing on this one topic becaue I had a problem in getting drops.... well, for the record, since the Event Started, I got 480 Demonic Forces drops.... while not being as many as others may have gotten, they are not exactly a low number, and we still have more then a month to go with this Event...

So, it is not my problem in getting drops, I adjusted and made a Warrior...... unfortunately (I would much more prefer to play my Tamer...).

My argument, rather, is that I really have a problem with how the Design of this particular type of Event handles, unequally, to my opinion, the ability of different Templates to get drops and, consequentially, yield Rewards to players.

I think that, for the better sake of Ultima Online as a whole, the Design of these Treasures of Events should be more "equalized" among different Templates in their ability to get Treasures of Artifact drops in the same amount of time and, thus, provide to players playing different Templates, not so much inequality in their ability to be able to claim the offered Rewards.
#106
popps said:

I did propose a solution etc etc..

The essence of your proposal is to penalize someone who plays optimally not balance them, that in itself is unfair and unreasonable, it is not a solution.
popps said:

Do the Developers set them as high, using the 60+ drops an hour as a meter, or do they set them using the 5-10 drops an hour as a meter ? etc etc
The guy that got 60 drops in 1 hour played optimally and deserves the reward.  He 'chose' to play at a quiet time, he 'chose' to use a warrior, he 'chose' to ignore paragon balrons, he also 'chose' to spend real life money! Yes!  Real life money to improve his drop rate!

By your standard you want to penalize and take that all away from him because he decided to play optimally?  He focused his efforts and deserves the rewards.  For all you know he might play a tamer 90% of the time but understands a warrior is best in this situation.

Spend less time writing a novel and more time focused and killing and you too can reap the rewards.
By your standard you want to penalize and take that all away from him because he decided to play optimally?  He focused his efforts and deserves the rewards.  For all you know he might play a tamer 90% of the time but understands a warrior is best in this situation.

Too bad, though, that " this " situation, seems to be being " THE " situation....

How so ?

We have been getting these "Treasures Of" types of Events for a while now, and my understanding is, that we will be getting them for quite a while to come, also....

So, "this" situation seems to me to be being pretty much a quite long term scenario.... nothing short lasting at all....

That is why, being such long lasting, apparently, I think that it should be much better balanced out among the different Templates which players could be using there.

If it was a one time Event of a weekend, or even going on for a couple of weeks, I would not bother.

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.

That's why I keep saying that, therefore, they should be much better balanced out for the various Templates that players could be using with them.

Because seeing variety of Templates being used at these Event which take up so much time of players, I think it as important for Ultima Online as a whole.
#107
Violet said:
So one of the things I've  learned from this thread is Pawain still doesn't understand a year later that paragons in Ilshenar are different than Treasures paragons.  

 Not all tamers are like Pawain sitting in a room while playing other characters/watching netflix.

Try Tritons. They munch them the same, just takes longer with just pets since they do 1/2 damage.  My archer tamer speeds it up. Use the game mechanic of someone exiting the floor. The paragon seems stunned long enough for you to get pets on it. They rarely target one of my tamers on the steps. If a lot of players run around then they might more often. I know how to invis and walk away if that happens.

My tamers sit in an empty room. If you read, I told you they get about two drops an hour. I play my warriors in these dungeons. The tamers are for para balrons and to gate my dead warrior to a res.  Most of the time they are on the entry steps to kill paragons on the first floor for others. I am quite involved playing in these.  Yoshi is the afk tamer.

But that's not why I am replying.

I have seen videos of you or kyro casting spells at warp speed.  I think if @popps saw that he would complain that mages kill things too fast.
#108
popps said:
Superfrog said:
popps said:
Superfrog said:

Indeed, Popps was told by Kyronix:

"Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".
Be he just cannot accept that other people are better at UO than he is and wants the Dev's to penalize everyone else for being able to "problem solve".

First, there is no need to mistype my handle (perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can edit these mistypes and have my handle be written properly ?) , second, the argument is entirely NOT about who is better then who but, rather, of 1 type of a Template, the Warrior, being able to achieve a a Treasures of Artifacts drops rate which is unmatchable by other Templates.

And this imbalance, forces players who want to have access to the Rewards from these Events, to have to play a Template other then the one that they may prefer and enjoy.

In this meantime, I wanted to do a test with my newly made Warrior... mind you, I am a Tamer at heart and never ever have played a Warrior before nor have a proper suit for it...

My Damage increase on the suit is only 75% as I lack either a Cameo or another Talisman with the needed 25% DI I am missing, I do not have Feudal Grips.... basically, I am just using a plain vanilla "starter" suit....

Well, to end it short, I fired up some luck, invested 200 Sovereings in a Luck Potion and got myself 30 drops in 1 hour.

And I am a total noob, do not know how to play a Warrior properly, do not have a proper suit, died several times and wasted time to get back at entrance to get ressed and back to my corpse, perhaps even lost a few drops not having insured them before I died...

There is NO WAY, that I would have been able to kill that fast with my Tamer and get those many drops, no way.

Like it or not, there DOES IS, to my opinion, a gross imbalance between how different Templates can handle these Treasures of Events and, to my humble opinion, for the better sake of Ultima Online and its well known diversity of Templates, I think that it should be addressed by the Developers to more equalize and bring on an equal footing, the ability for different Templates to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.
Again Popps, just because you cannot do it, doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. I can get plenty of drops on my tamer to get what I want. as Kyronix said

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game

I bolded what you need to accept. there are instances a tamer is what is needed as well. I use mine when the dungeon is full of Paragon Balrons, I sic my weaver Cu on them, start consume, stand behind them with my bandage macro, and after the Cu has it's full attention the other templates wail on it until dead, rinse and repeat until they are cleared out. I then continue playing on the Tamer for a while and usually get the 10-15 drops per hour my Sampire does.  Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  
These Treasure of Events is pretty much what we have been getting for a while now and, my understanding is, that they are what we will be getting on also for a while for the future.

Therefore, if their Design is geared towards favouring pretty much a single type of a Template, guess what ? That's what most players will be using to get them the most drops in the least time....

It might look fine to some, but it does not to me because I think that it kills the Templates' variety other then for the occasional 1 or 2 tamers or Bard (unless on trail of a Warrior to buff him/her further up....) that one might still see, rarely, in the Treasures of Events Dungeons.

Instead of whining to get the Devs to give everyone a trophy, just go learn to play better on your preferred template or learn another. your choice Popps.  

It looks like you may again have mistyped my handle... how odd.... again, perhaps @ Mariah or @ Rorschach can correct that mistype.... you keep bringing my argument on a personal basis as if I kept discussing on this one topic becaue I had a problem in getting drops.... well, for the record, since the Event Started, I got 480 Demonic Forces drops.... while not being as many as others may have gotten, they are not exactly a low number, and we still have more then a month to go with this Event...

So, it is not my problem in getting drops, I adjusted and made a Warrior...... unfortunately (I would much more prefer to play my Tamer...).

My argument, rather, is that I really have a problem with how the Design of this particular type of Event handles, unequally, to my opinion, the ability of different Templates to get drops and, consequentially, yield Rewards to players.

I think that, for the better sake of Ultima Online as a whole, the Design of these Treasures of Events should be more "equalized" among different Templates in their ability to get Treasures of Artifact drops in the same amount of time and, thus, provide to players playing different Templates, not so much inequality in their ability to be able to claim the offered Rewards.
Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"

on purpose? or are you, as I suspect, just a bigger troll than me?
#109
popps said:

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.
I personally played this event for the first 5-6 days on my warrior, got everything I wanted and then went back to playing the characters I prefer, my thief, my T-hunter, my tamer, crafting etc.  Doing the things I enjoy doing.

Lets be real here, no one is doing Hythloth 12+ hours for fun, they are doing it for the items.  Go with the flow, get the items you want, get out and do the things you enjoy doing, there is plenty going at the moment not Just ToH.
Repeating the same thing over and over again in your posts will not get you a different answer, nor will it change the current event.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

#110
popps said:

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.
I personally played this event for the first 5-6 days on my warrior, got everything I wanted and then went back to playing the characters I prefer, my thief, my T-hunter, my tamer, crafting etc.  Doing the things I enjoy doing.

Lets be real here, no one is doing Hythloth 12+ hours for fun, they are doing it for the items.  Go with the flow, get the items you want, get out and do the things you enjoy doing, there is plenty going at the moment not Just ToH.
Repeating the same thing over and over again in your posts will not get you a different answer, nor will it change the current event.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

See, someone with sense. We should all be this wise.
#111
Superfrog said:

Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"
Other games and other MMOs are constantly tweaking at their systems to balance gameplay. Acting like class imbalance in Ultima Online is a feature is a weird position to take.

I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events.

In fact, at the most recent Meet N Greet they did tell us that dropped minor artifacts appearing in the dungeon treasure chests are on the development plan for these events. Things can and will change.

To redirect this conversation, instead of nerfing anything about what currently is and is not the meta for getting drops in the dungeon what could any of you see added that would increase the range of gameplay options? 

So for me I wish the game overall, but especially events like these, better utilized the group mechanic. Wrac's initial point was about the trouble of melee characters leading para spawn onto others. The game provides no incentive for a mage character to provide support in these situations. Casting energy walls, or paralyze, or other defensive spells provides zero drops. If a melee character and a mage character were in a group and the system was smart enough to count the number of spell casts towards the chance of a drop I think we'd see a greater diversity of templates taking these events on together. We sampires who don't want to group can still go at it alone! We can still ride our swampies and whirlwind our little elf hearts out. But now the game is providing options. Options and strategies beyond the current meta which, I think no one disagrees with, favors a small number of combat builds compared to the totality of Ultima Online.
#112
popps said:

But these Events are pretty much what we are getting and what are involving players for the largest part of their logged in time.
I personally played this event for the first 5-6 days on my warrior, got everything I wanted and then went back to playing the characters I prefer, my thief, my T-hunter, my tamer, crafting etc.  Doing the things I enjoy doing.

Lets be real here, no one is doing Hythloth 12+ hours for fun, they are doing it for the items.  Go with the flow, get the items you want, get out and do the things you enjoy doing, there is plenty going at the moment not Just ToH.
Repeating the same thing over and over again in your posts will not get you a different answer, nor will it change the current event.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

When the next 'Treasures of' event is announced get yourself on to the test shard and voice your opinions.

If something requiring more work needs to change in the Design of these Treasures of Events, it needs to happen well before the Testing window for next Treasures of Event...

I noticed that these Tests are pretty much short, and usually only some fine tuning to them may happen...

Major changes, like for example working on a way to more balace out the performance of different Templates handling this particular Event, I would imagine would need more time as whatever window there was, when the Publish got on the Test Shard....

Test server is more for little adjustments, I think.
#113
Jepeth said:
Superfrog said:

Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"
Other games and other MMOs are constantly tweaking at their systems to balance gameplay. Acting like class imbalance in Ultima Online is a feature is a weird position to take.

I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events.

In fact, at the most recent Meet N Greet they did tell us that dropped minor artifacts appearing in the dungeon treasure chests are on the development plan for these events. Things can and will change.

To redirect this conversation, instead of nerfing anything about what currently is and is not the meta for getting drops in the dungeon what could any of you see added that would increase the range of gameplay options? 

So for me I wish the game overall, but especially events like these, better utilized the group mechanic. Wrac's initial point was about the trouble of melee characters leading para spawn onto others. The game provides no incentive for a mage character to provide support in these situations. Casting energy walls, or paralyze, or other defensive spells provides zero drops. If a melee character and a mage character were in a group and the system was smart enough to count the number of spell casts towards the chance of a drop I think we'd see a greater diversity of templates taking these events on together. We sampires who don't want to group can still go at it alone! We can still ride our swampies and whirlwind our little elf hearts out. But now the game is providing options. Options and strategies beyond the current meta which, I think no one disagrees with, favors a small number of combat builds compared to the totality of Ultima Online.
I sort of agree, but there isn't total class imbalance, one template is better at one thing, and another is better at other things, and there is also being skilled with the template. some people get how to play a template to it's potential and other's don't. there is no total class imbalance that i can see but there may be room for improvement, there always is after all. Popps likes to pretend he is doing this for "the little uo player" and that there is no way it can be done without there being an imbalance, if he cannot do it.  there is no need for a nerf to this, or a buff to that. but people certainly do need to get on test when these hit and give feedback so things can be tweaked before launch:

"I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events."

I wouldn't bring it up if popps would quit ignoring it and admit that some things should be done better by one template than another. If they do everything equally, why have different templates to begin with? that is just unnecessary and boring.
#114
Jepeth said:
Superfrog said:

Popps, these events were mentioned as being quick and easy content for the team to turn on for us while they work on the new shard, something they could put together quickly for us while they are focusing on it IIRC. this means that they wont be all "we will be getting on also for a while for the future." just what we are getting now. Are you ignoring where Kyronix said:

 "Assuming, expecting, or thinking that every template and/or combination of skills, stats, and gear are going to have an equal chance anywhere in the game world is a false assumption.  Some combinations are going to work well for some content, others are going to work well for others.  Adapting to the content scenario is part of game"
Other games and other MMOs are constantly tweaking at their systems to balance gameplay. Acting like class imbalance in Ultima Online is a feature is a weird position to take.

I don't think we should read Kyronix's statement there as an endorsement of the status quo persisting forever. Nor should it be thrown up as doctrine whenever people are trying to discuss ongoing issues within the game. These issues go beyond our current events.

In fact, at the most recent Meet N Greet they did tell us that dropped minor artifacts appearing in the dungeon treasure chests are on the development plan for these events. Things can and will change.

To redirect this conversation, instead of nerfing anything about what currently is and is not the meta for getting drops in the dungeon what could any of you see added that would increase the range of gameplay options? 

So for me I wish the game overall, but especially events like these, better utilized the group mechanic. Wrac's initial point was about the trouble of melee characters leading para spawn onto others. The game provides no incentive for a mage character to provide support in these situations. Casting energy walls, or paralyze, or other defensive spells provides zero drops. If a melee character and a mage character were in a group and the system was smart enough to count the number of spell casts towards the chance of a drop I think we'd see a greater diversity of templates taking these events on together. We sampires who don't want to group can still go at it alone! We can still ride our swampies and whirlwind our little elf hearts out. But now the game is providing options. Options and strategies beyond the current meta which, I think no one disagrees with, favors a small number of combat builds compared to the totality of Ultima Online.
I was not aware that, finally, also Rogue Templates will be able to have their own gameplay within these Treasures of Events.

That is great news, and definitely, a great addition to the game. I just hope that the mechanics being worked on, will consider the weaknesses of Rogue Templates whereas they need to have Detect Hidden to find the Chests, Lockpicking to pick the Locks, Remove Trap to remove Trap, and most likely Hiding and Stealthing to move around with hardly any combat ability. Not to mention, Magery, which can help for heals, cures, getting invised when hiding won't work because aggroed.... we are looking at some 600+ skill points already used up... not much room left to play with....

That is, if Paragons will reveal them a go go, across walls and at some 12+ tiles distance, and the rest of the spawn will therefore target on them, I hardly see how Rogues will be able to get a decent number of drops to be able to get them some rewards, especially if the costlier ones....

I sure hope that the Developers are working on a mechanics that will make it realistically "feasible" for this particular Template to participate in these Events....

I also agree on your point that Events like these, used the group mechanics more.

I would really love to see a much more varied assortment of Templates and not just, or mostly, Warriors all over the place.

But, as someone else well pointed out, in the end most players participate to these Event mainly for the drops that they can turn in for points in order to then get themselves the Rewards that they like.

So, any Design that was to include Rogues and a number of other Templates to be able to participate in these Events, should well keep in mind that these players, most likely, will be there to get their drops, and get them at a decent rate....

Otherwise, they would just log in with their Warrior and go get their drops.....
#115
Yes, it doesn't look like anyone grabbed the full transcript of the TC Meet 'N' Greet last week which is very unfortunate. There were a lot of great questions!


#116
I feel this argument has become circular, so in respect for the ill fated ouzelum bird I will halt the action.

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