Stop Breaking Bushido and Just Nerf the Bokuto

The Bokuto is the Problem with bushido. 

If stacked with a focus sash, you can get 100 damage in 1.25 seconds, plus it stuns, and it procs with a splinter. you only need to invest 60 tacts into the temp (plus bushido that gives you a ton of other stuff) 

Move the bokuto to a two-handed weapon... Thx, or cap nerve strike at 15 damage. 

The problem with your solution is that it sucks - it would completely nerf dexers.

If you want to fix the problem then you do something like "if character has over 60 of either magery, mysticism or spellweaving, then they can't nerve strike".

And I also don't completely agree with that either, there's a better way just no one cares.  I see really great PVP ideas posted on some of these threads, completely ignored by any dev and never implemented.

BECAUSE THE TRUTH, YOU SEE, IS THAT THE DEVS ARE GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT WITHOUT COMMUNICATING WITH THE PVP COMMUNITY.

TO DEVS:  You add a forum to your website so that you can have better communication with your users.  There's even an option to add a poll.  Why not poll PVP changes before implementing them.  I'm not saying let that be the final word but at least take a minute and see what we think...

sibble said:

The problem with your solution is that it sucks - it would completely nerf dexers.

If you want to fix the problem then you do something like "if character has over 60 of either magery, mysticism or spellweaving, then they can't nerve strike".

And I also don't completely agree with that either, there's a better way just no one cares.  I see really great PVP ideas posted on some of these threads, completely ignored by any dev and never implemented.

BECAUSE THE TRUTH, YOU SEE, IS THAT THE DEVS ARE GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT WITHOUT COMMUNICATING WITH THE PVP COMMUNITY.

TO DEVS:  You add a forum to your website so that you can have better communication with your users.  There's even an option to add a poll.  Why not poll PVP changes before implementing them.  I'm not saying let that be the final word but at least take a minute and see what we think...

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

Ninjutsu got nerfed into the grave because of pvp "issues " god help us if bushido is nerfed and some how everyone's sampire is worthless...

McDougle said:

Ninjutsu got nerfed into the grave because of pvp "issues " god help us if bushido is nerfed and some how everyone's sampire is worthless...

that is exactly the point. If You keep messing with bushido, you start to open up a can of worms. swords overall are superior to all melee in terms of bushido, no-dachi, bokuto capt johns hat. 

Del said:

The Bokuto is the Problem with bushido. 

If stacked with a focus sash,

"it is only the hit spell (normally hit lightning) that is affected by spell focusing sash, and this only hits at equivelent of 80 eval int, nerve strike is not affected by spell focusing"

Yoshi said:

Del said:

The Bokuto is the Problem with bushido. 

If stacked with a focus sash,

"it is only the hit spell (normally hit lightning) that is affected by spell focusing sash, and this only hits at equivelent of 80 eval int, nerve strike is not affected by spell focusing"

I was giving it the benefit of the doubt as well.. soo with 0 di, you can do max damage Nerves... your weapon melee damages a minimum of 10 plus 12=14 damage on a weapon hit it cursed, then anywhere between 15-25 damage with Nerve Strike, and that is with 0 damage increase and 60 tactics, 

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

Del said:

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

You mentioned focus sash... I find that funny because of the people using bokutos, most are mages right now - so you died to a bokuto mage and ran to the forums to complain about a weapon, not realizing the impact it would have on non-mage users.

Del said:

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

Spamming NS doesn't do anything... so you must be talking about bokuto mages.  A proper spell dump + nerve strike could probably kill someone in two seconds.  The bokuto alone can't kill anyone in two seconds unless they're running around with 70 HP.

sibble said:

Del said:

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

You mentioned focus sash... I find that funny because of the people using bokutos, most are mages right now - so you died to a bokuto mage and ran to the forums to complain about a weapon, not realizing the impact it would have on non-mage users.

Del said:

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

Spamming NS doesn't do anything... so you must be talking about bokuto mages.  A proper spell dump + nerve strike could probably kill someone in two seconds.  The bokuto alone can't kill anyone in two seconds unless they're running around with 70 HP.

Even for dexxers, its a bit extreme; if you only need the minimum skill with no damage increase to do max damage on a weapon, it's a bit over the top. . The template is not the issue it's the weapon... no matter what variation of a bushido character you PVP on the bokuto significantly scales better than anything. And its not a hard fix either, just scale down damage to 15 max or turn it into a two handed weapon. Players still have their op damage, but players need to decide if they want to go balanced or lose potions. 

sibble said:

Del said:

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

You mentioned focus sash... I find that funny because of the people using bokutos, most are mages right now - so you died to a bokuto mage and ran to the forums to complain about a weapon, not realizing the impact it would have on non-mage users.

Del said:

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

Spamming NS doesn't do anything... so you must be talking about bokuto mages.  A proper spell dump + nerve strike could probably kill someone in two seconds.  The bokuto alone can't kill anyone in two seconds unless they're running around with 70 HP.

CovenantX said:

  Nope, my bard has 70 hp thank you very much... it takes 3+ hits to kill me.... 

  

Del said:

if you only need the minimum skill with no damage increase to do max damage on a weapon, it's a bit over the top.

So this formula for nerve strike bonus damage is completely false?

And that's just for the bonus damage from NS.

You have to also figure the actual weapon damage which is calculated by anatomy, tactics, and DI on your suit.

So it's 120 Bush, 120 Anatomy, 120 Tactics, 100% DI to do max damage with a nerve strike not to mention the 120 Swords you need in order to hit your target.  That's 480 skill points and a lot of DI on your suit if you don't run it on your weapon.

No offense whatsoever here I don't enjoy any of this.

@Del you've shown 0 knowledge of the subject you've brought up but still insist on changing.

1.  Spell focusing sash does not boost the bonus damage from nerve strike.
2.  Having minimum required Bushido skill does not yield maximum damage.
3.  Having the minimum required Tactics (60) to perform a weapon special does not yield maximum damage.
4.  You said it can stun and proc a splinter, but as soon as you take a splinter tick of damage you are no longer stunned.
5.  Literally everything you said in this comment below is wrong.  You have shown a misunderstanding of gaming mechanics and I'm unsure where you are pulling your facts from.

Del said:

I was giving it the benefit of the doubt as well.. soo with 0 di, you can do max damage Nerves... your weapon melee damages a minimum of 10 plus 12=14 damage on a weapon hit it cursed, then anywhere between 15-25 damage with Nerve Strike, and that is with 0 damage increase and 60 tactics, 

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

There's a plethora of information available to you through multiple websites.  This is not hidden information - it is public.  Your opinion was based on fighting a mage with a Bokuto yet your changes will affect more than just mages...

You got blown up by a spell focusing Bushido mage - there's nothing new here.  The trick to avoiding this damage is to know when it's coming and either run off-screen before the dump happens or use some of the available defensive skills that are offered in the game: Feint, Evade, Smoke Bomb, Mana Shield, Run Away... Whatever you do, don't sit there and take the damage without interrupting them or using a defensive skill.

Buff other weapons.

Just a 2 cent and off I go. Resigned from pvp permanently recently.

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Tamers running around with 5 dragons.

hunter11 said:

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @ Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Seth said:

hunter11 said:

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @ Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Oh, I thought the hally mage is coming back in NLS?

Yeah, some used to pvp wearing underwear. There was nothing to nerf!

😂

parry mages are very defensive but if you're a decent caster in a cheap suit you dont need to worry about dexxers problem is you probably wont be able to kill a good caster not enough offensive ability unless you run wrestle parry and use parrying mastery to shield bash but then you need hci its really nice tho and with wrestle you can non stop disarm anyone with a wep just an fyi and can probably make that temp with the armor you own and a cpl hundred mil in jewels so not that expensive even bok mage should be cheap cuffs with resist and sdi captain johns hat a good bok maybe disarm wep and... good/decent casting armor great defensive and offensive ability 

and as far as nothing to change from those days yeah there has been a lot that needed to change those days were a joke was all casters you didnt see any decent dexxers until after aos came out maybe even after that 

hunter11 said:

Seth said:

hunter11 said:

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @ Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Oh, I thought the hally mage is coming back in NLS?

Yeah, some used to pvp wearing underwear. There was nothing to nerf!

😂

parry mages are very defensive but if you're a decent caster in a cheap suit you dont need to worry about dexxers problem is you probably wont be able to kill a good caster not enough offensive ability unless you run wrestle parry and use parrying mastery to shield bash but then you need hci its really nice tho and with wrestle you can non stop disarm anyone with a wep just an fyi and can probably make that temp with the armor you own and a cpl hundred mil in jewels so not that expensive even bok mage should be cheap cuffs with resist and sdi captain johns hat a good bok maybe disarm wep and... good/decent casting armor great defensive and offensive ability.

I also noticed confidence can be cast again the same second it been purged,
some cooldown for confidence should be considered

Woof woof says the dog archer....

McDougle said:

Woof woof says the dog archer....

Ha-haaaa! That's it. I am done. I come home from a late night of meetings at Volvo and shots of Absolute...No more signing on here after drinks. Woof woof. Too much.

They need to reduce the speed of the bokuto, only way to fix this whole bushido mage thing, by affecting the hybrid mages by forcing them to wear actual dexxer stats like swing speed increase and stamina increase to hit fast on a bokuto, because as it is right now they dont need any of that to hit 1,25s, and it wouldnt nerf the actual dexxers with bokutos because they have high stam to begin with.

So nerf bokuto down to 2,5s base speed, most problems fixed.

quickblade said:

They need to reduce the speed of the bokuto, only way to fix this whole bushido mage thing, by affecting the hybrid mages by forcing them to wear actual dexxer stats like swing speed increase and stamina increase to hit fast on a bokuto, because as it is right now they dont need any of that to hit 1,25s, and it wouldnt nerf the actual dexxers with bokutos because they have high stam to begin with.

So nerf bokuto down to 2,5s base speed, most problems fixed.

This and most pvp fixes punish non pvpers we need better solutions 

who uses bokutos in PvM?!?

Max_Blackoak said:

who uses bokutos in PvM?!?

People who enjoy nerve strike? Most 190 luck weapons are bokutos I'd say especially ninjas but brave pvp warriors cried until they were nerfed to nothing 

Ignore McDougle, he's got no idea what he's talking about
'punish pvm' and he throws out a bokuto with 190 luck argument and nerve strike in pvm, lol whatever dude.

quickblade said:

Ignore McDougle, he's got no idea what he's talking about
'punish pvm' and he throws out a bokuto with 190 luck argument and nerve strike in pvm, lol whatever dude.

Every pvp "fix" has broken something for pvm every single one it's impossible for it not to...

I think you are just trying to dig an issue that doesn't exist. I understand sometimes pvp fix might nerf pvm but not always, and in this case the bokuto speed nerf wouldn't affect pvm a second im sorry

All bitter sarcasm and smart mouthing aside we must have a pvm voice in any pvp change discussion as historically it seems pvm being affected was not taken into account 

quickblade said:

They need to reduce the speed of the bokuto, only way to fix this whole bushido mage thing, by affecting the hybrid mages by forcing them to wear actual dexxer stats like swing speed increase and stamina increase to hit fast on a bokuto, because as it is right now they dont need any of that to hit 1,25s, and it wouldnt nerf the actual dexxers with bokutos because they have high stam to begin with.

So nerf bokuto down to 2,5s base speed, most problems fixed.

nah man, most bok mages are running 120 stam with 20 ssi to swing the hatchet (which is 2.75) at cap.  Upping bok to 2.5 is only going to help bok mages, because base damage range increases with weapon speed.  All you're going to do is add 3-4 dmg per nerve strike.

When you say most bushido mages run 120 stam and 20 ssi, I honestly doubt it's the case but I agree on when you say if the bokuto speed is reduced to 2,5s it would increase the base damage, which could be a bad thing, unless they made an exception for the bokuto and kept it's 10-12 base dmg with 2,5s speed.

What about if they nerfed down the base dmg of the bokuto back to 9-11 like it was originally and keeping its speed at 2s, after all, it's a wooden weapon , and the base damage should be less than any other metal weapon at that speed 2s, which are at 10-12 base damage.

Not even mentionning that wood weapons can be enhanced for 'extra stats' that metal weapons don't even have access to.

If you really want to nerf hybrid mages then you'd do something like if template has over 200 skill points allocated in casting schools then decrease their weapon damage. *FOR EXAMPLE*

Changes to the weapon directly effect more than just hybrid templates.

Yoshi said:

"at the moment people don't put swing speed on bokutos because it's not required, if the weapon was slower, people would just add swing speed..."

and it's exactly my point , which is to force hybrid mages to invest in ssi and stamina increase to hit as fast.
2,5s or 2,75s would be ideal, but like lynk mentionned, if they were to increase it's base damage according to a slower speed, it wouldn't fix the issue at all, it would actually be worse, so they'd need to make an exception for the bokutos and keeping the 10-12 base dmg with 2,5 - 2,75s, this wouldn't hurt the dexxers because most dexxers have high stamina.

But that being said, logically, it would make more sense if they lowered the base dmg of the bokuto to 9-11 since it's a wooden weapon.
I also like sibble idea of having a kind of 'focused hybrid mage' where they would cap the damage if the player has more than 70 magery combined with parry/bush exemple.

Or what about if the chance to paralize from bokuto was like 25-50% of the time, instead of being guaranteed stun on first try. Or like diminushing returns on the nerve strike when spamming it within 2 sec, like -25% dmg everytime time you recast it within 2seconds

The Issue with the bokuto is not the base damage, On a cursed Target at 60 tactics you hit base damage for 10-14 Then 0-15 hit spell damage. Then the nerve strike is between 15-25 damage.
I do not know how much damage the splinter does but when that Procs it's also Additional damage. This is all done with just 60 tactics, making it inefficient to use anything other than a 60 tactics bokuto character. 

If the (Nervestrike True was based on the player's tactics then more investment is needed to do max damage Nervestrikes, kinda like how Deahstrike is

“

just make that bushido drop fast cast to 0 .

ezikel said:

just make that bushido drop fast cast to 0 .

"But warriors having mysticism is fine?

120 bushido/120 parry, 150 hit points and still killed in 1 hit by spellplague glenda shield bash with enchanted weapon "

Yoshi said:

"But warriors having mysticism is fine?

120 bushido/120 parry, 150 hit points and still killed in 1 hit by spellplague glenda shield bash with enchanted weapon "

Again, its really the bokuto. Every other weapon requires more than 60 tactics to be effective. a Hatchet is a strong weapon but it don't paralyze you. the bokuto just can hit for 55 damage with 60 tactics.. so the true damage should match the weapon damage on your character paper doll with a cap at 25. if you invest 120 tactics into your character to hit that threshold you are giving up something in return. but if most players are running 15 base weapon damage I see no reason that the nerve strike itself should exceed that. 

Del805 said:

Again, its really the bokuto. Every other weapon requires more than 60 tactics to be effective. a Hatchet is a strong weapon but it don't paralyze you. the bokuto just can hit for 55 damage with 60 tactics.. so the true damage should match the weapon damage on your character paper doll with a cap at 25. if you invest 120 tactics into your character to hit that threshold you are giving up something in return. but if most players are running 15 base weapon damage I see no reason that the nerve strike itself should exceed that. 

so don't invest 120 tactics into the template, and do what the others are doing! sheeesh!