The High Price of Living on the Atlantic Shard

When it comes to housing, the price of living on Atlantic is crazy high.  If all you want is a Villa or maybe you get lucky and find a Large Tower spot (Like I did) then the price is zero.

If you want a Keep or a Castle or two 18x18s side by side, then be prepared to fork over some serious Platinum.  Someone gave me a price of 12 Platinum for a Small Keep today and 5 Platinum for two 18x18 side by side.   It's all about Supply and Demand.  I get it.  

What are the advantages of Living on Atlantic?  Easy access to shopping which no other shard has right now.  You go to any other shard other than Atlantic and the things available for sale are nearly nothing.  The shopping is the biggest advantage of being on Atlantic.  You might say having a better chance of being in a guild on Atlantic is a positive.  Has anyone tried joining ANY guild in Ultima Online lately?  I've been trying for 15 years and without success.  

You go into pretty much any other game and joining a guild is BY FAR easier than Ultima Online.  I don't want to dwell too much on that though.  But, all of a sudden the "Atlantic Advantage" and the high price of housing is looking a lot less appealing.  

Then, I get on a Shard like Origin.  And, I walk around and there are 5 CASTLE spots JUST SITTING THERE.  Wow.  We just went from paying 12 Platinum (for a small keep) to paying maybe 50 million for the most expensive customized house in the game.  

There must be people out there willing to pay 12 Platinum or people wouldn't be selling homes for that price.  I'm sure there's people out there forking over real life money for the "Atlantic Advantage" too.

what's the point of this post?

Stay on Origin! We need more people. I have seen many returning players to the shard and I love it! We just need more people willing to run vendors, I feel I'm the only one running a vendor house right now. There are a few others but I think they are just buying my stuff and selling it for more 🙁

I try to keep my prices low for a small shard like Origin...people selling runebooks and runic atlas for over 10k is just redic! IMO anyway....but if we get more people doing it, we'll give Atlantic a run for it's money

The one thing I like about Atlantic is running into to people all the time in the wilderness or random places, you don't get that often on the less populated shards. 

I’m really confused how you could play this game for 15 years and not get into a guild. You ask around and you’ll end up in one pretty easy. 

Don’t quite understand why almost all the other shards have low populations all the time.  Can someone explain the history?  Does just not make sense.  All the shards are the same yet most of the players play on Atlantic.  Do not mean to say anything negative about the other shards.  With all the other available shards it’s obvious that the original design did not intend for one shard to dominate.  How did this happen?

AtomicBetty said:

what's the point of this post?

The high pricing of homes on Atlantic.  Other take aways might be that Atlantic is a good place to shop.as compared to the other shards and It is very difficult to find a guild in Ultima Online. 

Also, there are "Free" Keep and Castle spots available on Origin.... rather than paying 12 Platinum on Atlantic. 

There was a while that the rares fest was held on Atl for a long time because no one on other shards wanted to do it so I would say a majority of the rares collector moved there and others followed.  I am on the west coast so I will gladly stay here and ping 10-14 all day.  I played Chessy (awesome shard and people) but lag turned me off so I brought everuthing home.  I have shard shirlds to every shard and my char on Atl has the majority of my gold so I get the shopping mall (Atl) and the quiet of the suburbs

dvvid said:

I’m really confused how you could play this game for 15 years and not get into a guild. You ask around and you’ll end up in one pretty easy. 

Yeah.  I love that question.  That is a great question.  During Age of Shadows I was able to join a guild within the first 30 minutes.  When I changed guilds, I was able to almost instantly join another guild.  At a certain point, I think people just stopped caring about trying to recruit people. I log into another game and in 3 days time maximum, I'll get invites to join guilds. 

I haven't seen anything in this game which really encourages people to join groups as in other games. What does that mean?  Well... I'd really have to start giving examples. 

Maybe you have burned that many bridges by jumping guilds?

If smb selling house for several plats - this means: 1- people have those plats. why not 2- after the deal seller will have those * plats. Sell something to him! There are pets and items (deco and arties) with multi-million prices. You think keep will cost 20M here?

The truly sad thing is, small shards are pricing some items at Atl selling prices.

Galluccio said:

dvvid said:

I’m really confused how you could play this game for 15 years and not get into a guild. You ask around and you’ll end up in one pretty easy. 

Yeah.  I love that question.  That is a great question.  During Age of Shadows I was able to join a guild within the first 30 minutes.  When I changed guilds, I was able to almost instantly join another guild.  At a certain point, I think people just stopped caring about trying to recruit people. I log into another game and in 3 days time maximum, I'll get invites to join guilds. 

I haven't seen anything in this game which really encourages people to join groups as in other games. What does that mean?  Well... I'd really have to start giving examples. 

Dont pull that thread. I've been suggesting a looking for group tool for a while now. You will get ripped here for suggesting you cant find groups easily in general chat. I play mostly solo, and love tools like other games have to quickly put together groups/raids. Dont ask for this here, people just flame it.

Again, you don't need a special tool to find a group, you need to create your own Chat Group when you log in, call it Looking for Group or whatever. I"m never one to force multi play on anyone as I"m prefectly fine being a solo player, but if you need that interaction, then interact and ask around, don't look for a special button.

Garth_Grey said:

The truly sad thing is, small shards are pricing some items at Atl selling prices.

Why not? Less competitors, less customers. 
And is that is really expensive stuff- you can transfer yourself and sell it on Atl rather than selling on a small shard. 
BTW most of stuff on  you can make or grind by yourself. Dont buy it if it is too expensive for you 

Told ya 🙂 his way works for him so forget everyone else. That special button generates millions of subs to other games because it is critical for players who dont play like you. I can log in WoW and be in a large raid in 5min, I know this is UO, but getting into the action quickly is important to me. Not sure why people are so against something new.

Xris said:

Told ya 🙂 his way works for him so forget everyone else. That special button generates millions of subs to other games because it is critical for players who dont play like you. I can log in WoW and be in a large raid in 5min, I know this is UO, but getting into the action quickly is important to me. Not sure why people are so against something new.

I"m not against it, I'm just saying it's easy to find a group if you actually look/ask..If you only play during certain hours, then you're only going to be looking for people that play during those hours too, so they'll be online the same time frame you are (mostly). I've been in guilds, I asked, I looked, I talked , I joined. That's how it "should" work.

Garth_Grey said:

Xris said:

Told ya 🙂 his way works for him so forget everyone else. That special button generates millions of subs to other games because it is critical for players who dont play like you. I can log in WoW and be in a large raid in 5min, I know this is UO, but getting into the action quickly is important to me. Not sure why people are so against something new.

I"m not against it, I'm just saying it's easy to find a group if you actually look/ask..If you only play during certain hours, then you're only going to be looking for people that play during those hours too, so they'll be online the same time frame you are (mostly). I've been in guilds, I asked, I looked, I talked , I joined. That's how it "should" work.

Tbh I dont play a steady time that's the big issue. Sometimes I log in for 30min at 2pm, sometimes i play for 2 hours at 6am. No rhyme or reason, this is why I wanted the tool. I do ask in chat, but it's time consuming, and falls apart a lot.

@Xris - Problem with that is you likely won't find a group at 6am regardless if there was a tool or not. 

I think the main issue most have have with this (as with majority of things) is that people realize we have a very finite amount of Dev resources and many people do not want energy spent on something that can technically be done (perhaps not as quick as hitting a button to join a group).

The other thing for this specific request is that many veteran players (like myself) are able to play most content they want and do not need to rely on a group. In the event that I do want to partner up with someone, the people I'm grouping with need to know what they are doing. The biggest problem I see with the "easy button" is that you are going to be putting some Leroy Jenkins type people in groups they have no place being in and thus is actually making things more of a hassle than Vets want. 

It's not quite as simple as "create an easy button so people can quickly group". 

Thought I'd respond to a few things here.....

Atlantic is now the center of UO. It was always one if not the most populated US shard.  As people quit and houses fell, people needed others to play with.  Since ATL had the bigger population people bought tokens, moved toons and migrated to ATL.  This has caused the degradation of players on every US shard.  Some second tier ones (GL, Pac, Lake Sup) still have a bit of a player base.  The lagging ones like Legends, LA, others are near dead - like korean shards anymore.  

When all those people moved - they took their items and gold too.   When more money chases items the prices rise.  Tired of expensive ATL prices people with shard shields would go on 'shopping trips' to other shards without as much money chasing good and buy up cheap scrolls, pinks and other items to bring back to ATL to either sell or use.  This caused a vendor prices to rise on those smaller shards even with a small playerbase because effectively they were an offshore supplier to ATL.   People from these shards also do the reverse (I do this from GL) take goods with shields to ATL - sell for high prices - bring gold back to home shard and live like a king.  I took some junk to ATL and made a plat in like 5 days.  

In regards to how the housing market works for large houses in ATL - given the high values - there are a number of brokers involved.  They attend the idocs and run a two account game to place. One account stands there casting recall. It won't show the words till the plot is ready to place.  When the words first pop up the second account will script place the plot.   They will then sell the big house for top $$.   When they get 5plat for a prime 18x18 or 25p for a castle - they then sell the gold for $85/p.  Who buys it? People buying the houses that have no hope to gather 25p.  Maybe they have 10 but then they buy the rest.    So in essense these houses are trading hands with plats but outside the game the money moves in real dollars.   Its a job an income for the big house placers.    Why does someone pay 25p or $2k real money for a house? Because they feel they can always sell it for that or more with housing being scarce.  Its just like a stock market.   I've been one to favor an auction for open plots run by UO.  Yes, a house broker could pay 20plat for it and outbid the average guy - but when they sell it for 25p - they are only making 5p instead of 25p.  And that 20p is deleted and REMOVED from UO.  if this were to be in place even for a moderate amount of time house prices would fall as gold was sucked from the economy and eventually housing would be reasonable vs the time to acquire the gold because the gold sellers (house placers) wouldnt' have the the gold to sell anymore as it was deleted.   Literally this is the devs best way to create a gold sink for 6 months or a year that would correct the UO economy by starting with the ATL inflation.  

Otherwise tho people are free to transfer out. I love being on a shard that isn't ATL. I still go and sell things on ATl but I prefer playing with a tighter group of players where content isn't over crowded and housing is plentiful.  I've placed two keeps in the past year in Tram and didn't have to pay a broker for them. Thats a win in my book.  

keven2002 said:

@ Xris - Problem with that is you likely won't find a group at 6am regardless if there was a tool or not. 

I think the main issue most have have with this (as with majority of things) is that people realize we have a very finite amount of Dev resources and many people do not want energy spent on something that can technically be done (perhaps not as quick as hitting a button to join a group).

The other thing for this specific request is that many veteran players (like myself) are able to play most content they want and do not need to rely on a group. In the event that I do want to partner up with someone, the people I'm grouping with need to know what they are doing. The biggest problem I see with the "easy button" is that you are going to be putting some Leroy Jenkins type people in groups they have no place being in and thus is actually making things more of a hassle than Vets want. 

It's not quite as simple as "create an easy button so people can quickly group". 

Most games evaluate your gear/skills to enter a que, so undergeared wont get in. They also have a voting system to drop annoying players. I suppose you are right though, there aren't a lot of players looking for a group off peak hours. I just know this tool is probably one of the most popular mmo features and it keeps me logging in WoW.

Garth_Grey said:

The truly sad thing is, small shards are pricing some items at Atl selling prices.

That is to stop all the people from Atl from stripping the other shards.  Use gen chat and if your char is known to be a reg on the shard I am sure people will try to hook you up.

Ya someones gonna hook me up with a 120 Tactics or Resist.  For 50M?

Ill take em!

Returners and NOOBs need Atlantic size bank accounts to get Banes and scrolls. 

Theo , I really dont understand what you want. Plot QTY is limited on shards. Even if admins will canalize money from game what will it change? 
About placing a house- it is known issue: I placed a house - I am good and clever. Somebody else placed it- he is a cheater and a scripter. 
Inflation is mostly because people CAN afford that expensive houses. And once you play for a while you can find ways to make lots of gold. Not grinding gold  from mobs but looting some stuff in high demand. Materials, arties, pets. All are priced accordingly. 
At the beginning, when you have several K it is crazy to see al those prices for scrolls or arties. But learnong it and looting one clean ring with SSI 10 and selling it will make you way more gold that you can farm from mobs. 
You want a good plot for ree- go to low- populated and settle even in Luna. Want to play on ATL and to have keep there- pay highest price to current owner or learn how to gel a keep plot faster than others. Those you call "scripters" did that. I dont want and now quite happy with my small max lock house. . You want that huge plot but too lazy to learn. 

Pawain said:

Ya someones gonna hook me up with a 120 Tactics or Resist.  For 50M?

Ill take em!

Returners and NOOBs need Atlantic size bank accounts to get Banes and scrolls. 

I want a public market on all shards. Where you (having house on ATL) will be able to place 1-2 commission vendors. Some shards you cannot even rent a place for a vendor. 

Gwen said:

@ Theo , I really dont understand what you want. Plot QTY is limited on shards. Even if admins will canalize money from game what will it change? 
About placing a house- it is known issue: I placed a house - I am good and clever. Somebody else placed it- he is a cheater and a scripter. 
Inflation is mostly because people CAN afford that expensive houses. And once you play for a while you can find ways to make lots of gold. Not grinding gold  from mobs but looting some stuff in high demand. Materials, arties, pets. All are priced accordingly. 
At the beginning, when you have several K it is crazy to see al those prices for scrolls or arties. But learnong it and looting one clean ring with SSI 10 and selling it will make you way more gold that you can farm from mobs. 
You want a good plot for ree- go to low- populated and settle even in Luna. Want to play on ATL and to have keep there- pay highest price to current owner or learn how to gel a keep plot faster than others. Those you call "scripters" did that. I dont want and now quite happy with my small max lock house. . You want that huge plot but too lazy to learn. 

If you take the bloated amount of gold out of the system and you take the ability for script placers to make $2k to $3k USD from a house - they will go away and housing prices will fall as you reduce the money supply and the outside game profit potential.  Yes you can GET gold but only so fast.  Your whole idea of 'acquiring high priced items' they are only high priced because of too much gold chasing them around.  

This is a basic economics lesson and if you don't understand macro economics and money supply and M1 and M2 then I can't help you.  Please read up and try to understand.  I offered a solution to the housing/scripting solution and gold inflation problem that specifically hurts normal players on atlantic while making a select few extremely rich in real life money outside the game. 

I really don't want any house on atantic. I play other shards just for that reason and I will never pay anyone for my housing.  I have two keeps I placed myself.  UO took the gold - I've never bought gold from anyone nor paid a house broker for any house. 

@Theo , you are wrong. If there are people who can spend 1.5-3K $ for a house on Atl - it is their problem. But they are not crowding . Yes there are rumors about it. Based on somebody trying to sell house at such price. Same about RMT traders. Also there are lots of veterans. Check houses on Atl. Their deco costs many plats. Only deco, Add pets and artifacts (like cameo sets etc) and you will see how much gold they can pay for a house if they need one. Who will spend those thousands of real money? Noobs and only lazy ones. Who dont want to grind money, kill mobs or even craft stuff to earn gold. Yes , for somebody just started playing those multi-million prices are scary. Playing for a while- you can find way to climb. Grind mobs or sell something to rich guys. I was doing peerless keys and bought a house from those "scripters"on ATL. I was doing things I find funny. They do - what they do good. If i will ever want a keep- I will go to Formosa or other low-pop shard. Now I dont want. If you are so good in economic understanding - go to US treasury , or World Bank, whatever and tell them : you should remove USD from turnover because houses on ATL are too expensive,.

When houses fall, the plot should just be used by someone who actually needs the plot.  The whole real estate market in the game seems to be entirely about greed.  I don't see how it is good for the game as a whole.  Just my opinion, though.

If you are willing to look around in Fel there are plenty of places to still place a starter house on Atlantic.

Bizarro said:

If you are willing to look around in Fel there are plenty of places to still place a starter house on Atlantic.

This.

Some people think that they are entitled to place an 18x18 or castle after only playing 6 months on ATL and if they can't then they should be able to buy one for dirt cheap (all while disregarding supply/demand). 

UO can be an extremely goal based game. If your goal is to have some high end plot of land then either start going to every single IDOC and trying to place (if you do place sell it to upgrade if needed) and/or make enough gold to buy it. I personally do not want UO watered down and the bar lowered because some people don't want to put in the time/effort to reach their goal.

dvvid said:

When houses fall, the plot should just be used by someone who actually needs the plot.  The whole real estate market in the game seems to be entirely about greed.  I don't see how it is good for the game as a whole.  Just my opinion, though.

By that "someone in need" you mean yourself, not any other player? 
Whole real estate in game and in real word have same rules: it will be sold to top-bidder.
Look at the ATL - tons of houses smaller than 18*18. They all need bigger one, not just you or me. 
Lets avoid gold. How many 120 tactics scrolls or Cameos, or Bane dragons you think 18*18 should cost?

 😂  When pet scrolls went up in price and someone asked how much a castle was, I would say 2 120 Tactics scrolls.  That was before Covid and not on Atlantic. 

Gwen said:

dvvid said:

When houses fall, the plot should just be used by someone who actually needs the plot.  The whole real estate market in the game seems to be entirely about greed.  I don't see how it is good for the game as a whole.  Just my opinion, though.

By that "someone in need" you mean yourself, not any other player? 
Whole real estate in game and in real word have same rules: it will be sold to top-bidder.
Look at the ATL - tons of houses smaller than 18*18. They all need bigger one, not just you or me. 
Lets avoid gold. How many 120 tactics scrolls or Cameos, or Bane dragons you think 18*18 should cost?

By “someone in need” I mean literally anyone in need. Not myself. I don’t understand that accusation at all. I’d like a bigger place but I’m fine with what I have. 

dvvid said:

Gwen said:

dvvid said:

When houses fall, the plot should just be used by someone who actually needs the plot.  The whole real estate market in the game seems to be entirely about greed.  I don't see how it is good for the game as a whole.  Just my opinion, though.

By that "someone in need" you mean yourself, not any other player? 
Whole real estate in game and in real word have same rules: it will be sold to top-bidder.
Look at the ATL - tons of houses smaller than 18*18. They all need bigger one, not just you or me. 
Lets avoid gold. How many 120 tactics scrolls or Cameos, or Bane dragons you think 18*18 should cost?

By “someone in need” I mean literally anyone in need. Not myself. I don’t understand that accusation at all. I’d like a bigger place but I’m fine with what I have. 

All I am saying is the “realtors” in the game don’t seem to serve any benefit to the game itself... claiming up new plots and selling them for a quick fortune. 

Who determines NEED.  Every account deserves a house and every house that a REALTOR owns has a paying account owning it.  I have 3 accounts and I finally got a third convertible Castle for my 3rd account.  Do I NEED 3 customizable Castles, not really but UO is not about need but goals, now the goal will be to decorate it the way I want it.  One is our Guild / mementos / keep sakes Castle, the Second is our Crafter / BOD vendor storage Castle and the 3rd I am not sure yet what it will be.  Every playstyle benefits UO,  There have been "realtors" in UO from day one of housing, what benefit does rares collectors provide to UO, do they enhance my game play, in a way yes just like your playstyle enhances my playstyle by keeping UO alive so I can play.  Every paying account enhances UO because without them we would not be here.

I’m just saying claiming a blank plot just to sell seems greedy to me. 

dvvid said:

I’m just saying claiming a blank plot just to sell seems greedy to me. 

Having multiple houses that you are actively using, even if just for deco or storage, is all good with me. Gives the shard life. 

So by this logic... you don't sell any goods to anyone for a profit? How much ya charging for a cameo? I think the default vendor price is 230gp.... I'll give ya 1,000gp for it even though you really shouldn't even have got it if you have more than 1 because they should be going to those in need. 

 😂 

dvvid said:

I’m just saying claiming a blank plot just to sell seems greedy to me. 

Having multiple houses that you are actively using, even if just for deco or storage, is all good with me. Gives the shard life. 

That's how Real life works, hence that's how the game works. as long as it isn't being done illegally people can do whatever they want.  The biggest issue is there are too many scripts involved in house placement.  I'm all for someone making a profit, just not cheating to do it. 

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

Gwen said:

@ Theo , Check houses on Atl. Their deco costs many plats. Only deco, Add pets and artifacts (like cameo sets etc) and you will see how much gold they can pay for a house if they need one. Who will spend those thousands of real money? Noobs and only lazy ones. Who dont want to grind money, kill mobs or even craft stuff to earn gold. Yes , for somebody just started playing those multi-million prices are scary. .

Look, clearly you aren't getting it.  YOu say 'their deco costs many plats' thats because of the insane amount of gold in the game. If it were reduced THEY WOULD NOT COST PLATS.  I'm not sure how I can make it more simple.  It would fall back to the amount of time it would take to aquire said gold for the exchange.    The money supply has everything to do with how much things cost and we have too much money in the system.  It needs a wipe. The simple and easy way to remove it is to sell the fallen housing spots on ATL.  It will be a gradual suck of the money supply. No one is unhappy about it (do you want to pay 4 plat through an auction or 4 plat to a broker - either way the house is 4 plat).  And over time plats and plats removed - then things won't be so out of reach because of a bloated money supply. House prices fall. Price of everything falls to a point whereby you can actually acquire the gold.  

Look if everyone is standing around hungry with 1 million dollars in their pocket and I have a loaf a bread to sell -what will the price be? 

Now if everyone only has $10 what will the price be?  

Thats the point.  

Galluccio said:

What are the advantages of Living on Atlantic?  Easy access to shopping which no other shard has right now.  You go to any other shard other than Atlantic and the things available for sale are nearly nothing.  The shopping is the biggest advantage of being on Atlantic.

Seth said:

There is then no need for character transfer anymore, which will create more loading on Atlantic. Character transfer is only required for complete migration of shard, or for participation in shard events, pvp, etc.

And this is where you lost the devs/BS who use transfer tokens etc as a big cash cow.

keven2002 said:

Seth said:

There is then no need for character transfer anymore, which will create more loading on Atlantic. Character transfer is only required for complete migration of shard, or for participation in shard events, pvp, etc.

And this is where you lost the devs/BS who use transfer tokens etc as a big cash cow.

Seth said:

keven2002 said:

Seth said:

There is then no need for character transfer anymore, which will create more loading on Atlantic. Character transfer is only required for complete migration of shard, or for participation in shard events, pvp, etc.

And this is where you lost the devs/BS who use transfer tokens etc as a big cash cow.

Yeah, you are right in that sense, however, I am thinking the ease of trading and availability of items, high supply (hence supposed lower cost in economics) will boost new players (easier to get into the game). This means more players which will negate the lost in the sales of tokens. In any case, I don't think it will affect much. I have a 18 year old account I use my tokens to help my friends transfer.

Imagine the game has a built in mechanism that allow this instead of relying on me, they will be saying Ultima Online is solid!

It will never happen because EA will never allow it, in fact I was VERY SUPPRISED that they allowed the 14th year shard shield but maybe it was a smart move because I see a lot more shields in houses now so more older vets are sticking around longer.  My 3rd main account just hit 14 years and I never intended to keep it going until the 14th year rewards came out so EA is getting an extra $120 a year from me because of it and no I did not buy Xfer tokens.

Where do people get the idea that BS makes money on anything sold on Origin or from sups paid, you do relize that EA owns Origin and EA collects all the subs.  EA has a contract with BS to run DAoC and UO and as tight wad as EA is I am sure that is a set in stone amount every year.

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

keven2002 said:

Seth said:

There is then no need for character transfer anymore, which will create more loading on Atlantic. Character transfer is only required for complete migration of shard, or for participation in shard events, pvp, etc.

And this is where you lost the devs/BS who use transfer tokens etc as a big cash cow.

Yeah, you are right in that sense, however, I am thinking the ease of trading and availability of items, high supply (hence supposed lower cost in economics) will boost new players (easier to get into the game). This means more players which will negate the lost in the sales of tokens. In any case, I don't think it will affect much. I have a 18 year old account I use my tokens to help my friends transfer.

Imagine the game has a built in mechanism that allow this instead of relying on me, they will be saying Ultima Online is solid!

It will never happen because EA will never allow it, in fact I was VERY SUPPRISED that they allowed the 14th year shard shield but maybe it was a smart move because I see a lot more shields in houses now so more older vets are sticking around longer.  My 3rd main account just hit 14 years and I never intended to keep it going until the 14th year rewards came out so EA is getting an extra $120 a year from me because of it and no I did not buy Xfer tokens.

Where do people get the idea that BS makes money on anything sold on Origin or from sups paid, you do relize that EA owns Origin and EA collects all the subs.  EA has a contract with BS to run DAoC and UO and as tight wad as EA is I am sure that is a set in stone amount every year.

I think you should stick to what you're good at, stealing other peoples signature lines.

Seth said:

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

keven2002 said:

Seth said:

There is then no need for character transfer anymore, which will create more loading on Atlantic. Character transfer is only required for complete migration of shard, or for participation in shard events, pvp, etc.

And this is where you lost the devs/BS who use transfer tokens etc as a big cash cow.

Yeah, you are right in that sense, however, I am thinking the ease of trading and availability of items, high supply (hence supposed lower cost in economics) will boost new players (easier to get into the game). This means more players which will negate the lost in the sales of tokens. In any case, I don't think it will affect much. I have a 18 year old account I use my tokens to help my friends transfer.

Imagine the game has a built in mechanism that allow this instead of relying on me, they will be saying Ultima Online is solid!

It will never happen because EA will never allow it, in fact I was VERY SUPPRISED that they allowed the 14th year shard shield but maybe it was a smart move because I see a lot more shields in houses now so more older vets are sticking around longer.  My 3rd main account just hit 14 years and I never intended to keep it going until the 14th year rewards came out so EA is getting an extra $120 a year from me because of it and no I did not buy Xfer tokens.

Where do people get the idea that BS makes money on anything sold on Origin or from sups paid, you do relize that EA owns Origin and EA collects all the subs.  EA has a contract with BS to run DAoC and UO and as tight wad as EA is I am sure that is a set in stone amount every year.

Not sure if we are on the same point here, but I am writing from the experience as a returning player how much cross shard trading meant to me so that we can stay with this game and reap its full enjoyment - same as what I have done with several of my returning friends in Asian shards.

Many of them would not be paying to subscribe if not for the ability to purchase good gears in Atlantic where traders of all shards converge. Even some of them have migrated to Atlantic to PVP even when the Ping is disadvantageous to them.

So complaining about VS? Ofcourse, we are ALL MIGRATING TO ATLANTIC! More shard bound. more migration. Open cross shard trading so all players can spread to other shards and Grow the Population WORLD WIDE GET ITTT??????

Cross Shard trading will cost EA not BS/DAoC/UO REAL MONEY, see this is the point you fail to understand, EA OWNS DAoC/UO and alls BS does is maintain it.  EA collects ALL CASH BS/DaoC/UO collects no REAL MONEY.  Destroying EAs CASH COW will cost EA REAL MONEY and EA could easily shut down BS because of it.

No not all of us are migrating to Atl but like all people that live in the Burbs sometimes we have to go to the MEGA Malls to do our shopping and we would rather spend a little gas money than than hustle and bustle of an overcrowded city.  Look at all the 175M display items that are on Atl VS, now why the hell would someone put a bandage for 175M on a vendor and is probably one of the biggest whiners about vendor costs when they could place a book for free or a bag with a description saying what is there for sell. or better yet why put 50 of the same high priced item on a vendor when the same item is selling for half that amount on other vendors.  Do you people not look at other sellers prices before pricing you own stuff.  Compared to all the other shards I would bet that Atl has more JUNK on their vendors than all the shards with all their items combined do so maybe Atl should clean out the junk and 100s of the same item on a vendor, what you think because you sell something at 100M and another is selling it for 50M that some idiot will say OMG his must be special because it costs twice as much, do you guys think people are really that stupid.

Get a clue stop proposing things that will cost EA real money and get BS/DAoC/UO shut down.
How many shard runs do you do to help others or are you one of those that farms "dead shards" to sell on Atl.

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

keven2002 said:

Seth said:

There is then no need for character transfer anymore, which will create more loading on Atlantic. Character transfer is only required for complete migration of shard, or for participation in shard events, pvp, etc.

And this is where you lost the devs/BS who use transfer tokens etc as a big cash cow.

Yeah, you are right in that sense, however, I am thinking the ease of trading and availability of items, high supply (hence supposed lower cost in economics) will boost new players (easier to get into the game). This means more players which will negate the lost in the sales of tokens. In any case, I don't think it will affect much. I have a 18 year old account I use my tokens to help my friends transfer.

Imagine the game has a built in mechanism that allow this instead of relying on me, they will be saying Ultima Online is solid!

It will never happen because EA will never allow it, in fact I was VERY SUPPRISED that they allowed the 14th year shard shield but maybe it was a smart move because I see a lot more shields in houses now so more older vets are sticking around longer.  My 3rd main account just hit 14 years and I never intended to keep it going until the 14th year rewards came out so EA is getting an extra $120 a year from me because of it and no I did not buy Xfer tokens.

Where do people get the idea that BS makes money on anything sold on Origin or from sups paid, you do relize that EA owns Origin and EA collects all the subs.  EA has a contract with BS to run DAoC and UO and as tight wad as EA is I am sure that is a set in stone amount every year.

Not sure if we are on the same point here, but I am writing from the experience as a returning player how much cross shard trading meant to me so that we can stay with this game and reap its full enjoyment - same as what I have done with several of my returning friends in Asian shards.

Many of them would not be paying to subscribe if not for the ability to purchase good gears in Atlantic where traders of all shards converge. Even some of them have migrated to Atlantic to PVP even when the Ping is disadvantageous to them.

So complaining about VS? Ofcourse, we are ALL MIGRATING TO ATLANTIC! More shard bound. more migration. Open cross shard trading so all players can spread to other shards and Grow the Population WORLD WIDE GET ITTT??????

Cross Shard trading will cost EA not BS/DAoC/UO REAL MONEY, see this is the point you fail to understand, EA OWNS DAoC/UO and alls BS does is maintain it.  EA collects ALL CASH BS/DaoC/UO collects no REAL MONEY.  Destroying EAs CASH COW will cost EA REAL MONEY and EA could easily shut down BS because of it.

No not all of us are migrating to Atl but like all people that live in the Burbs sometimes we have to go to the MEGA Malls to do our shopping and we would rather spend a little gas money than than hustle and bustle of an overcrowded city.  Look at all the 175M display items that are on Atl VS, now why the hell would someone put a bandage for 175M on a vendor and is probably one of the biggest whiners about vendor costs when they could place a book for free or a bag with a description saying what is there for sell. or better yet why put 50 of the same high priced item on a vendor when the same item is selling for half that amount on other vendors.  Do you people not look at other sellers prices before pricing you own stuff.  Compared to all the other shards I would bet that Atl has more JUNK on their vendors than all the shards with all their items combined do so maybe Atl should clean out the junk and 100s of the same item on a vendor, what you think because you sell something at 100M and another is selling it for 50M that some idiot will say OMG his must be special because it costs twice as much, do you guys think people are really that stupid.

Get a clue stop proposing things that will cost EA real money and get BS/DAoC/UO shut down.
How many shard runs do you do to help others or are you one of those that farms "dead shards" to sell on Atl.

Not all migrating to Atlantic but enough to cause VS to fail more than other shards. What revenue are you talking when the busiest shard is full of unhappy customers?

Seth said:

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

Bilbo said:

Seth said:

keven2002 said:

Seth said:

There is then no need for character transfer anymore, which will create more loading on Atlantic. Character transfer is only required for complete migration of shard, or for participation in shard events, pvp, etc.

And this is where you lost the devs/BS who use transfer tokens etc as a big cash cow.

Yeah, you are right in that sense, however, I am thinking the ease of trading and availability of items, high supply (hence supposed lower cost in economics) will boost new players (easier to get into the game). This means more players which will negate the lost in the sales of tokens. In any case, I don't think it will affect much. I have a 18 year old account I use my tokens to help my friends transfer.

Imagine the game has a built in mechanism that allow this instead of relying on me, they will be saying Ultima Online is solid!

It will never happen because EA will never allow it, in fact I was VERY SUPPRISED that they allowed the 14th year shard shield but maybe it was a smart move because I see a lot more shields in houses now so more older vets are sticking around longer.  My 3rd main account just hit 14 years and I never intended to keep it going until the 14th year rewards came out so EA is getting an extra $120 a year from me because of it and no I did not buy Xfer tokens.

Where do people get the idea that BS makes money on anything sold on Origin or from sups paid, you do relize that EA owns Origin and EA collects all the subs.  EA has a contract with BS to run DAoC and UO and as tight wad as EA is I am sure that is a set in stone amount every year.

Not sure if we are on the same point here, but I am writing from the experience as a returning player how much cross shard trading meant to me so that we can stay with this game and reap its full enjoyment - same as what I have done with several of my returning friends in Asian shards.

Many of them would not be paying to subscribe if not for the ability to purchase good gears in Atlantic where traders of all shards converge. Even some of them have migrated to Atlantic to PVP even when the Ping is disadvantageous to them.

So complaining about VS? Ofcourse, we are ALL MIGRATING TO ATLANTIC! More shard bound. more migration. Open cross shard trading so all players can spread to other shards and Grow the Population WORLD WIDE GET ITTT??????

Cross Shard trading will cost EA not BS/DAoC/UO REAL MONEY, see this is the point you fail to understand, EA OWNS DAoC/UO and alls BS does is maintain it.  EA collects ALL CASH BS/DaoC/UO collects no REAL MONEY.  Destroying EAs CASH COW will cost EA REAL MONEY and EA could easily shut down BS because of it.

No not all of us are migrating to Atl but like all people that live in the Burbs sometimes we have to go to the MEGA Malls to do our shopping and we would rather spend a little gas money than than hustle and bustle of an overcrowded city.  Look at all the 175M display items that are on Atl VS, now why the hell would someone put a bandage for 175M on a vendor and is probably one of the biggest whiners about vendor costs when they could place a book for free or a bag with a description saying what is there for sell. or better yet why put 50 of the same high priced item on a vendor when the same item is selling for half that amount on other vendors.  Do you people not look at other sellers prices before pricing you own stuff.  Compared to all the other shards I would bet that Atl has more JUNK on their vendors than all the shards with all their items combined do so maybe Atl should clean out the junk and 100s of the same item on a vendor, what you think because you sell something at 100M and another is selling it for 50M that some idiot will say OMG his must be special because it costs twice as much, do you guys think people are really that stupid.

Get a clue stop proposing things that will cost EA real money and get BS/DAoC/UO shut down.
How many shard runs do you do to help others or are you one of those that farms "dead shards" to sell on Atl.

Not all migrating to Atlantic but enough to cause VS to fail more than other shards. What revenue are you talking when the busiest shard is full of unhappy customers?

If they were so unhappy they would not be there now would they?  They are still paying their subs because EA is still allowing UO to live.  So bitch/whine all you want clean up your vendors don't clean up your vendors do what ever just keep paying your subs so other can play.  The sure volume of crap on Atl Vendors is a problem and the players refuse to do anything about it.

@Kyronix @Bleak can Atl have special vendors that can only hold 5 items and drop the total number of vendors a house can have to %25 to force Atl to clean out the trash.

To be honest how much money do they actually make from transfer tokens when there are enough shard shields in circulation to make them obsolete. Most guilds have people with shields that will transfer for free. I agree that opening up trade across shards will encourage growth on the less populated shards as it means there will be less barriers to trade. Atlantic can still serve as a trade hub but as a consequence of say being able to transfer freely and without limits for every paying player, it means more people will travel out of Atlantic looking for deals on items. Or conversely people move back to their more local shard to do content with a better ping because they know at any point they can go to ATL to sell stuff. Having such an obvious trade barrier does nothing to help the economy, which many people agree is the biggest issue in the game. If the demand for housing on ATL reduces so does the crazy prices that are being driven up by RMT traders and scripters. It’s not just about the money supply. These people are effectively making real cash that should be going to the owners to keep the game going by playing off the small amount of guaranteed income that comes from transfer tokens. New Legacy is a risk because it by no means guarantees new players will come in. I would urge BS take a similar risk in allowing free trade and encourage returning players to stay when they come back rather than get disenchanted with the state of the economy and its effect on the game.

Lagistics to have an all shards VS

1. Move all shards VSs to one location.  Would require its own server due to massive lag potential, Atl x 100.
2. Allow all shards access to this server through VS
3. Create a transfer system for items only from shard to shard.  Is there a total item limit on number of items per day kind of like char transfers?  Is there a limit on number of items for a single purchase or should we limit it to 1 item at time.
4. Place item in buyers bank/pack, remove gold from buyer and place it in vendors account.
5. Transfer cost who pays it and how much should it be, possible gold sink.  Set fee + %10 of item cost.
6. What potential stress could this put on the shard servers doing all these item transfers and how much time will pass before you get your item / gold
7. Are the 2 special shards included in this, if not now we add more requirements into the program to make sure they are excluded.
8. Will the Auction Safes be included, big potential to move massive amounts of gold from shard to shard, RMTers will love this as it washes their gold and allows easy transfer of gold from shard to shard.

Please fill free to add other requirements / concerns.  This sounds simple, just ask all the programmers we have here, but as old as some of UO is can we do way more harm than good and what happens when the system farts and changes the item.  Would this fall under the clause that we do not replace lost items.

Yes this has the potential to be a nice thing with a gold sink add in BUT it could be a total nightmare not only for VS but for the game itself with all the server lag potential, what did it take just to fix Atl VS and it still isn't up to the rest of the shards, but it is a lot better, and you want to take the chance to transfer that to all the other shards.  What do you do with VS if it doesn't work, do the DEVs do another rewrite to put it back or better yet just wipe VS.

Bilbo said:

Lagistics to have an all shards VS

1. Move all shards VSs to one location.  Would require its own server due to massive lag potential, Atl x 100.
2. Allow all shards access to this server through VS
3. Create a transfer system for items only from shard to shard.  Is there a total item limit on number of items per day kind of like char transfers?  Is there a limit on number of items for a single purchase or should we limit it to 1 item at time.
4. Place item in buyers bank/pack, remove gold from buyer and place it in vendors account.
5. Transfer cost who pays it and how much should it be, possible gold sink.  Set fee + %10 of item cost.
6. What potential stress could this put on the shard servers doing all these item transfers and how much time will pass before you get your item / gold
7. Are the 2 special shards included in this, if not now we add more requirements into the program to make sure they are excluded.
8. Will the Auction Safes be included, big potential to move massive amounts of gold from shard to shard, RMTers will love this as it washes their gold and allows easy transfer of gold from shard to shard.

Please fill free to add other requirements / concerns.  This sounds simple, just ask all the programmers we have here, but as old as some of UO is can we do way more harm than good and what happens when the system farts and changes the item.  Would this fall under the clause that we do not replace lost items.

Yes this has the potential to be a nice thing with a gold sink add in BUT it could be a total nightmare not only for VS but for the game itself with all the server lag potential, what did it take just to fix Atl VS and it still isn't up to the rest of the shards, but it is a lot better, and you want to take the chance to transfer that to all the other shards.  What do you do with VS if it doesn't work, do the DEVs do another rewrite to put it back or better yet just wipe VS.

No I dont think a postal service like this is workable. I am just talking about free transfers for all paying customers. Whether the devs want to add limits to that or not. They could do a 25 item limit and/or a once a day/week time limit if they want to differentiate it from transfer tokens and shard shields. That would be enough for new or returning players to get a few items to market or others to pick up a few things from the outlying shards. This would clearly be a process and the effects of it may not be felt for a few months. It would mean progress and would be as big a change as what they did with idocs and work in a similar way by giving greater access to a larger number of people.

UO is not going to just give free shard transfers away, you need to earn them or buy them.  Giving away free transfers would be a slap in the face to 14 year vets.  Ask here or in gen chat if you need something xfered or join a guild that does shard runs, problem solved and yes I have 3 accounts that are over 14 years old.

Bilbo said:

UO is not going to just give free shard transfers away, you need to earn them or buy them.  Giving away free transfers would be a slap in the face to 14 year vets.  Ask here or in gen chat if you need something xfered or join a guild that does shard runs, problem solved and yes I have 3 accounts that are over 14 years old.

Just today I was talking to someone who is 9 months away from a 14 year account and he doesn’t even want shard shields in fact he would prefer if everyone got free xfers too. He is a trader so he understands the economic value of that. If you read my post you will see if I have given a clear example of how they can differentiate from the bought or earnt option. I am not going to attack you for not agreeing with me as you probably expect me to, I am just asking you to look from the perspective of new and returning players in offering them an incentive to stay. The devs already have your support and I would even go so far as to say you probably wouldn’t consider unsubbing over this if they did change it. I would even go even further and say you are representative of the majority of loyal vets who also would stay despite a change of this nature. Do correct me if I’m wrong. Once we get a few more returners staying for longer periods and populating their local shards I would imagine this would enrich your own gaming experience too.

Postal system for purchasing and transfer of goods cross shard will be ideal. Cross shard trading is a necessity for most players esp. those returning.