UO not noob friendly

I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.

yes it can be frustrating.  I lucked out on my shard and got in a great guild.  One thing that I noticed is that many of the fel dungeons are the same as the old school.  Not changed like the Trammel ones.  Yes we could use some new blood, but on chessy, I see a new player every day or two.  Its nice to help them  out a bit.

dara said:

I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.

I have been saying it for a long time now....

This is the result of extreme itemization of the game.

Veteran players keep piling up items which are increasingly more powerfull, and consequentially, the Developers need to put out items more powerfull again to keep Veteran players interested in the game.

Of course, then the MoBs need to be "beefed up" to catch up with these new items more and more powerfull and the end result is that this vicious circle makes it impossible or way too hard for new or returning players to play....

A good step in the right direction was with Masteries, to my opinion, where "real" skill points were made to matter more as compared to item skill points, but it has not been enough, me thinks.

It is necessary to progressively make items less important and real skills more important...

Perhaps an idea could be to have "super Masteries", that is, Masteries not tied up to only 1 skill, but tied up to a combination of skills so as to force players, if they wanted to use the advantages from these Super Masteries, to have to invest on their Templates in "real" skill points not for just 1 skill, but for 4 or 5 or even 6 skills.....

Recently the New Legacy Server was announced and, supposedly, players will all have a "new" start there thus voiding the current difference between Veteran players and new and returning players, but no release date has been given so, I am not sure how far it might be.

I do not like the importance that has been given over the Years to items in Ultima Online.... I much more preferred the way that it was back in the days, where regular armor and weapons where used....

I am not sure how this situation could be reversed and thus deprive items of their current importance, but I sure would love to see Ultima Online go back to a game where items did not have the importance that they have now, on a template.

dara said:

I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.

You are completely correct, I agree.

I'm going to disagree with Popp's version of events, where of course it is the Veteran players to blame for all of this. Boring, and wrong.

For the last few months, I have been playing the game with my 2 boys, a 9 year old, and a 12 year old, and the main problem with UO is, there is absolutely no road-map for a new player. They are intelligent kids, who happily take on many new games and succeed in them, but they have both said, they wouldn't have known where to start in UO, there is absolutely no manual.

There is no structure.

There is no linking skill gains, or template choice, with a suitable level mob or monster to get the relevant armour or gear off, to feel you are progressing in a uniform manner. Quite often Skills training has to be done first, and independently of gaining armour, as the Mobs to gain items off are way too hard for new players.

The Devs did try and sort out the Quest engine a little, it's better, but still not greatly useful.

New Haven works as a starter point, but then where do they go? My 2 boys started gargoyles alongside 1 I created with them to experience the journey with them, and there was nowhere for them to hunt, where they could get any sort of mobs their level, to help them gear up. It's taken a Vet of my ability, to try and create a fun and structured road-map for them.

This is my Road-Map so far, and I'd love to see any New or Returning Player come up with this intuitively;

• Started on Endless Journey accounts to see if they liked UO, they love it.
• New Haven/Royal City to get the basics and train skills.
• Dungeon Deceit Trammel to collect a Bandage stock and train skills.
• Enslaved Goblins Mini Champ got them Storm Caller x 2.
• Tyballs Shadow - got them Shroud of the Condemned x 3.
• Reknowned Acid Elemental got them Berserkers Breastplate x 2.
• Joined W guild and a kind crafter gave them a decent set of imbued armour x 2.
• Guild leader gave my Garg Mystic Parry Mage support a legendary suit of armour.
• Did Harrower with guild, got ourselves 3x  +25 Stat scrolls.
• Farmed Exodus Dungeon for Exodus Keys, went in with guild 3 times, got 3 x +5 Stat scrolls.
• Could not equip Corguls Sash because don't have High Sea's expansion. No Sash Slot yet.
• Treaures of Deceit Event came out - with incredible Dexxer rewards, and incredible rewards all round, went into intense farming in Deceit, to get items, and really push/complete the skills training.
• Have subbed 1 of the 3 EJ accounts to make the farming easier, to be able to use the full bank account, and to be able to use Bags of Sending for the team. Now have 2/4 accounts subbed, costing me £100 every 6 months, to sub the final 2, will cost me £200 every 6 months - quite a lot for a game, so really want to plan the progression right to make it all worth it.
• {Solen Tunnels and Quests to collect Bags of Sending, and Powders of Translocation}.
• W guild kindly gave my boys many of the 120 scrolls they needed, to really maximise their training, almost completed all skills to 6x120 in Treasures of Deceit.
• Got enough item drops for 2 x SSI 10 Epaulettes for the Throwers.
• Got enough item drops for 2 x Boots of Escaping for the Throwers.
• Was really hoping they would be able to get First Aid Belt in the event, but this is not to be, this Belt is crucial to their template set-up, so hoping it gets fixed and drops from a future event.
• Did the Black Gate event for 2 x Batlins Talismans, but also my Crafter got them 2 x Clean-up rewards Soldiers Medals for 600k clean-up points.
• Will then progress to farming Navrey and Dreadhorn for Tangle/Crimson Cincture after this event.
• Will then go to Illshenar to farm Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash.
• Will then take them to Felucca, where of course they were born to be, and will do Champion Spawns, and try and make gold to obtain better jewellery/armour pieces.
• Will also spam Roof, for Cameos'/armour drops, Medusa's for Slither.
• I have very special Shields I want to use for them, this is going to require my Crafter to go mental to get Valorite Hammers, and to try and get the precise Greater Reforged items x 3 I am after.
• May want to throw in farming the Secret Garden Mini Champ for Jade Dragon Ear-rings.
• Cannot use or equip Masteries - don't have Eodon Expansion pack yet...

So @dara or any other new/returning player - this is how I approached it, I tried to do a lot of it myself where I could, but I did get a lot of guild help, from a Veteran guild. Maybe this can help for ideas and a progression path.

Of_Beasts said:

yes it can be frustrating.  I lucked out on my shard and got in a great guild.  One thing that I noticed is that many of the fel dungeons are the same as the old school.  Not changed like the Trammel ones.  Yes we could use some new blood, but on chessy, I see a new player every day or two.  Its nice to help them  out a bit.

I'm going to agree with this post also, this is how to do it.

Ultima Online is a team game, it's really designed to help each other progress. Going solo is not easy at all.

We as a guild, help a lot of new players progress, we need the activity levels for our hunts, we need PvPers for Felucca, new players benefit by getting the rewards of our efforts.

The difficulty is, there are often far more new players, than there are structured guilds who can help them, we can only take in so many, and we have to stay balanced. We also cannot get items as fast as people think we can, we often get asked for Legendary this and that, especially jewellery, which costs say 200m and we don't even have to hand ourselves. New player requirements and expectations can be quite high, or unrealistic, they do not always appreciate how hard it is to get stuff for them.

Have to agree new players without mentors to provide them with the guidance on how to play their characters and the assets they need to survive don’t last long.  For the most part UO ignores the needs of new players.  Training consists of a numerical skill gain but no information at all on how to play the character.  Although Wikis provide template building information, none provide any clues on how to play the character.  If it were not for third party sites on the internet, most new players would not have a clue as to how the game is played.  Players participating in these forums provide good information to new players but I don’t really remember UO ever mentioning the existence of them in a daily hint or anywhere else. 

How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.

Pawain said:

How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.

I do completely agree and understand this - but, this is why they are having to create the New Legacy Shard, to simplify down the introduction to the game.

When we started, there was so much less, and it was easier to get into.

Since then, we have 23 years of accumulated knowledge and systems all built on top of each other and going different directions, with many systems/quests/skills/templates/items even being obsolete.

How is a new player going to know where to go, or how to progress.

It would really help if there was more structure at the front end, you really have to play it in the way I have been, with new players, to experience this.

My 9 year old instantaneously wanted to be a Tamer, Necro, Mystic, Rogue right off the bat, without really having any clue what any of this involved or how to get there.

Cookie said:

dara said:

I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.

You are completely correct, I agree.

I'm going to disagree with Popp's version of events, where of course it is the Veteran players to blame for all of this. Boring, and wrong.

For the last few months, I have been playing the game with my 2 boys, a 9 year old, and a 12 year old, and the main problem with UO is, there is absolutely no road-map for a new player. They are intelligent kids, who happily take on many new games and succeed in them, but they have both said, they wouldn't have known where to start in UO, there is absolutely no manual.

There is no structure.

There is no linking skill gains, or template choice, with a suitable level mob or monster to get the relevant armour or gear off, to feel you are progressing in a uniform manner. Quite often Skills training has to be done first, and independently of gaining armour, as the Mobs to gain items off are way too hard for new players.

The Devs did try and sort out the Quest engine a little, it's better, but still not greatly useful.

New Haven works as a starter point, but then where do they go? My 2 boys started gargoyles alongside 1 I created with them to experience the journey with them, and there was nowhere for them to hunt, where they could get any sort of mobs their level, to help them gear up. It's taken a Vet of my ability, to try and create a fun and structured road-map for them.

This is my Road-Map so far, and I'd love to see any New or Returning Player come up with this intuitively;

• Started on Endless Journey accounts to see if they liked UO, they love it.
• New Haven/Royal City to get the basics and train skills.
• Dungeon Deceit Trammel to collect a Bandage stock and train skills.
• Enslaved Goblins Mini Champ got them Storm Caller x 2.
• Tyballs Shadow - got them Shroud of the Condemned x 3.
• Reknowned Acid Elemental got them Berserkers Breastplate x 2.
• Joined W guild and a kind crafter gave them a decent set of imbued armour x 2.
• Guild leader gave my Garg Mystic Parry Mage support a legendary suit of armour.
• Did Harrower with guild, got ourselves 3x  +25 Stat scrolls.
• Farmed Exodus Dungeon for Exodus Keys, went in with guild 3 times, got 3 x +5 Stat scrolls.
• Could not equip Corguls Sash because don't have High Sea's expansion. No Sash Slot yet.
• Treaures of Deceit Event came out - with incredible Dexxer rewards, and incredible rewards all round, went into intense farming in Deceit, to get items, and really push/complete the skills training.
• Have subbed 1 of the 3 EJ accounts to make the farming easier, to be able to use the full bank account, and to be able to use Bags of Sending for the team. Now have 2/4 accounts subbed, costing me £100 every 6 months, to sub the final 2, will cost me £200 every 6 months - quite a lot for a game, so really want to plan the progression right to make it all worth it.
• {Solen Tunnels and Quests to collect Bags of Sending, and Powders of Translocation}.
• W guild kindly gave my boys many of the 120 scrolls they needed, to really maximise their training, almost completed all skills to 6x120 in Treasures of Deceit.
• Got enough item drops for 2 x SSI 10 Epaulettes for the Throwers.
• Got enough item drops for 2 x Boots of Escaping for the Throwers.
• Was really hoping they would be able to get First Aid Belt in the event, but this is not to be, this Belt is crucial to their template set-up, so hoping it gets fixed and drops from a future event.
• Did the Black Gate event for 2 x Batlins Talismans, but also my Crafter got them 2 x Clean-up rewards Soldiers Medals for 600k clean-up points.
• Will then progress to farming Navrey and Dreadhorn for Tangle/Crimson Cincture after this event.
• Will then go to Illshenar to farm Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash.
• Will then take them to Felucca, where of course they were born to be, and will do Champion Spawns, and try and make gold to obtain better jewellery/armour pieces.
• Will also spam Roof, for Cameos'/armour drops, Medusa's for Slither.
• I have very special Shields I want to use for them, this is going to require my Crafter to go mental to get Valorite Hammers, and to try and get the precise Greater Reforged items x 3 I am after.
• May want to throw in farming the Secret Garden Mini Champ for Jade Dragon Ear-rings.
• Cannot use or equip Masteries - don't have Eodon Expansion pack yet...

So @ dara or any other new/returning player - this is how I approached it, I tried to do a lot of it myself where I could, but I did get a lot of guild help, from a Veteran guild. Maybe this can help for ideas and a progression path.

Nice write up @Cookie

Pawain said:

How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.

Sadly the time of Guilds or large groups is gone, to many things can be soled or with 2-3 people.

Cookie said:

dara said:

I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.

You are completely correct, I agree.

I'm going to disagree with Popp's version of events, where of course it is the Veteran players to blame for all of this. Boring, and wrong.

For the last few months, I have been playing the game with my 2 boys, a 9 year old, and a 12 year old, and the main problem with UO is, there is absolutely no road-map for a new player. They are intelligent kids, who happily take on many new games and succeed in them, but they have both said, they wouldn't have known where to start in UO, there is absolutely no manual.

There is no structure.

There is no linking skill gains, or template choice, with a suitable level mob or monster to get the relevant armour or gear off, to feel you are progressing in a uniform manner. Quite often Skills training has to be done first, and independently of gaining armour, as the Mobs to gain items off are way too hard for new players.

The Devs did try and sort out the Quest engine a little, it's better, but still not greatly useful.

New Haven works as a starter point, but then where do they go? My 2 boys started gargoyles alongside 1 I created with them to experience the journey with them, and there was nowhere for them to hunt, where they could get any sort of mobs their level, to help them gear up. It's taken a Vet of my ability, to try and create a fun and structured road-map for them.

This is my Road-Map so far, and I'd love to see any New or Returning Player come up with this intuitively;

• Started on Endless Journey accounts to see if they liked UO, they love it.
• New Haven/Royal City to get the basics and train skills.
• Dungeon Deceit Trammel to collect a Bandage stock and train skills.
• Enslaved Goblins Mini Champ got them Storm Caller x 2.
• Tyballs Shadow - got them Shroud of the Condemned x 3.
• Reknowned Acid Elemental got them Berserkers Breastplate x 2.
• Joined W guild and a kind crafter gave them a decent set of imbued armour x 2.
• Guild leader gave my Garg Mystic Parry Mage support a legendary suit of armour.
• Did Harrower with guild, got ourselves 3x  +25 Stat scrolls.
• Farmed Exodus Dungeon for Exodus Keys, went in with guild 3 times, got 3 x +5 Stat scrolls.
• Could not equip Corguls Sash because don't have High Sea's expansion. No Sash Slot yet.
• Treaures of Deceit Event came out - with incredible Dexxer rewards, and incredible rewards all round, went into intense farming in Deceit, to get items, and really push/complete the skills training.
• Have subbed 1 of the 3 EJ accounts to make the farming easier, to be able to use the full bank account, and to be able to use Bags of Sending for the team. Now have 2/4 accounts subbed, costing me £100 every 6 months, to sub the final 2, will cost me £200 every 6 months - quite a lot for a game, so really want to plan the progression right to make it all worth it.
• {Solen Tunnels and Quests to collect Bags of Sending, and Powders of Translocation}.
• W guild kindly gave my boys many of the 120 scrolls they needed, to really maximise their training, almost completed all skills to 6x120 in Treasures of Deceit.
• Got enough item drops for 2 x SSI 10 Epaulettes for the Throwers.
• Got enough item drops for 2 x Boots of Escaping for the Throwers.
• Was really hoping they would be able to get First Aid Belt in the event, but this is not to be, this Belt is crucial to their template set-up, so hoping it gets fixed and drops from a future event.
• Did the Black Gate event for 2 x Batlins Talismans, but also my Crafter got them 2 x Clean-up rewards Soldiers Medals for 600k clean-up points.
• Will then progress to farming Navrey and Dreadhorn for Tangle/Crimson Cincture after this event.
• Will then go to Illshenar to farm Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash.
• Will then take them to Felucca, where of course they were born to be, and will do Champion Spawns, and try and make gold to obtain better jewellery/armour pieces.
• Will also spam Roof, for Cameos'/armour drops, Medusa's for Slither.
• I have very special Shields I want to use for them, this is going to require my Crafter to go mental to get Valorite Hammers, and to try and get the precise Greater Reforged items x 3 I am after.
• May want to throw in farming the Secret Garden Mini Champ for Jade Dragon Ear-rings.
• Cannot use or equip Masteries - don't have Eodon Expansion pack yet...

So @ dara or any other new/returning player - this is how I approached it, I tried to do a lot of it myself where I could, but I did get a lot of guild help, from a Veteran guild. Maybe this can help for ideas and a progression path.

That is a good Guide.... but for a Dexer....

What if the "Newcomer" wants to be a Tamer ? Or a Bard ? Or a Thief ? And on and on with the many Templates possible in Ultima Online....

And even for a Dexer, the items change, depending on "what type" of a Dexer one wants to play...

A Sampire ? A Paladin ? A Dragoon ? And there is quite a few more... and the farming for their suit pieces would change, depending on what type of Template the player would want to play and enjoy...

What lacks, really, is Guidance to : 

# 1) - A Comprehensive listing of all of the Templates and "hybrid" Templates possible in Ultima Online ;

# 2) - What Armor and Weapons items would be needed (and where to find them) in accordance to the type of Template or Hybrid Template that the new or returning player has chosen to play.

Or, I should say, this information might be existing, somewhere hidden in some players' site or in some Post, maybe from Years ago.... what does not exist, that I know of, is a single place where one could find all of these info in one single place....

Possibly, the UO Wiki could be a good place to gather such informations but it would need first @Mariah to be willing to implement these informations, and then Veteran players, each having experience and knowledge in a given Template, to provide to her such informations as to how to make a Sampire, with what skills, stats, gear, weapons, and where to farm for those items, or a Dragoon, or an ABC Archer, or a whatever, and still provide to Mariah the related informations which she could then all put on the UO Wiki for New and Returning players to find them all in 1 single place and then pick the Template which they think they can most enjoy and go from their on their Ultima Online's new Journey....

It would require a comprehensive effort from Veteran players knowledged about all of these high end Templates and Mariah, all contributing to put these info in 1 single spot, the UO Wiki.

Pawain said:

How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.

You will have to make many guides, with many sub-guides.  it would have to be very detailed and comprehensive and we would have to find someone with a penchant for writing long and detailed articles. Anyone know a Veteran player like that?? Anyone?? @popps

Mariah said:

All possible templates?  Not possible, UO is a sandbox game, you can combine skills in any way your imagination can come up with.

Most popular templates? Certainly, but a player does not need to have all the artifacts that some veterans deem necessary in order to play effectively, and telling them they do is not only discouraging, it's not accurate or true.

It's also ever shifting, example the recent addition of the epaulettes from this event.

Ask 10 sampires to list their skills and equipment and I guarantee you will get 10 different lists.

Agreed Mariah, you can play the game with many varied templates and in an Imbued suit while doing it. Yes, Artifacts make it easier and can help you with the higher end mobs, but nowhere near necessary.  you have to start out on low end mobs slowly building your suit to the top tiered items, but again, it isn't necessary. At least, that is how I see it . . .

I completely know and understand the points that my road-map was for 1 style of template, there are many styles of template, but a lot of the basics would be the same, just with a different places to visit for different slots.

I also get that you can use many variations, and there are variations upon variations.

To a large degree, this is where the complication comes in.

None of this is relevant to the point I was making, I get all this, but  what is true is that;

As a new player, with far less skills and abilities, the game does not offer a cohesive route whereby a character with a certain level of skills, can go to get themselves the level of armour or weapons they require in a structured fashion. I know this, because I experienced it.

I think it should be possible to define some of the more popular templates and create guidance for them. If you ask any Vet - I want to make this, or this, or this, they would know in their heads how to progress with that, they would know the options - what I did for my Throwers there, I could equally do with a Mage, a Rogue. A new player just does not stand a chance, and the whole thing is completely overwhelming.

I understand @Mariah ;  🙂

I do feel I should help, I have so much in my head, but I don't ever have time to get it out, or I get distracted, or I'm just too busy playing.

I never go onto Test Centre - I don't even know how to use it, I don't pre-test new content - Again - I'm just too busy playing the game.

Theres a few items that are usefull for new players as they advance, I think there should be a quest for each of these items, they are not high-end, but still very usefull for i.e a mage charcter:

• Protector of the battle mage
• Shield of Invulnerability
• Enchanted Kelp woven leggings
• Totem of the Void
• Runed Driftwood bow

• Full spellbook
• Full Necromancer book

Ofcourse some of this items can be bought from vendor search on some shards (not all shards), but as a new/returning player you wont learn anything buying of the vendors.

psycho said:

Nice list Cookie made, however its not for new players.  The list is not at all a guide for a new player without a veteran by his side.  A few highlights of the list:

• Reknowned Acid Elemental
• Harrower
• Treaures of Deceit Event
• Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash
• Narvey spider

I wouldnt do any of those unless 100/GM skills, which also mean an armor that is either Imbued or better, and besides, its not a solo run for a new player even with GM skills and Imbued armor.

New haven is great, for skills upto 60 or so, but then what?  In my opinion its the only way to get a buddy or a guild to cooperate with,  yes its a MMO, but both things can be hard to find these days.

Ive seen solo players with gm skills and even imbued/good armor been sendt out on quest to kill the Ogre chef in dungeon wrong, let me just say it was not a nice task for a new/returning player.

And thats the problem, once people leave New Haven they will embark new quests from the NPC cryer at the banks.  These can be interesting/challenging, but most of them are  NOT for new players

psycho said:

Theres a few items that are usefull for new players as they advance, I think there should be a quest for each of these items, they are not high-end, but still very usefull for i.e a mage charcter:

• Protector of the battle mage
• Shield of Invulnerability
• Enchanted Kelp woven leggings
• Totem of the Void
• Runed Driftwood bow

• Full spellbook
• Full Necromancer book

Ofcourse some of this items can be bought from vendor search on some shards (not all shards), but as a new/returning player you wont learn anything buying of the vendors.

Upon log in players should also be given a choice are you

A new player,  A returning player, or A veteran. 

The choices they make should give them hint to what quests they might want to do, if they want items or to learn the basics of the game.

Hi @psycho 🙂

I completely agree - it is not for new players, but that is the list that is required to create basic Throwers - with some of the basic must have items that players want for their characters.

That is exactly my point, the Hunting of Items and Gear - does not correlate with the level of Skills of a Character. There is a complete void/disconnect in the game, in terms of what they would be after, and when they can actually try to attain it.

I agree with you in terms of your basic list, there are some items that should be scaled better within the game. The place they are obtained from, should be lower level.

I think a new solo player should be able to go so far, and have a more structured introduction.

Then of course, it's about group and teamplay to progress further.

Edit - PS - It was a list for 3 new players acting as a team.  2 Gargoyle Thrower damage dealers, and a Gargoyle Mystic Parry Mage acting as support healer. The emphasis has been on teamwork from the start. And yes, even then, we needed help from a Veteran guild. When I first started the game all those years ago, I teamed up with 2 other guys, and we formed a solid friendship and that is how we progressed, I also met @petra-fyde in those days. 🙂

Townie said:

What part of Cookie's list is for a new player?

People giving away full suits. Being carried on a harrower. Free powerscrolls.

Sounds like you are just carrying them completely bypassing any new player experience that they may have encountered. Completely skipped the progression of being new racing into high end content.

I get your scepticism, but the 3 of us, have played all of that together from brand new EJ accounts. What I have not mentioned in there is the timescale, and how long and detailed each part has been. I've bullet pointed it, and made it look like we achieved each of those points in a day, when each point probably took a month.

A lot of players/crafters give away basic imbued/LRC suits to help new players - our guild do this for many players, and many new people we recruit. Petra's guild do similar.

Veteran players are all sat there with many Legendary items, it is nothing for them to throw together a suit.

We have done Champion Spawns, but again, our guild as a Champ Spawn guild, farm so many, have so many in stock, and give away Plats worth of these to new/returning players.

We take Harry teams of 20 players a time. Often say 5-10 PvPers for protection, and 10-15 PvMers, the PvMers are often by default new players who are there for the scrolls, they are not being carried if they are helping to kill the Harry. But again, yes we carry many new players, through all aspects of the game, it's what large Champ Spawn guilds do, those guilds everyone criticizes all the time, because they perceive they are dominating the market, and selling everything for huge profits, when we are giving most of it away.

Personally I think there is plenty for a true new-player experience in New Haven except for one glaring exception... “basic equipment” that would allow you to reasonably move on to other content once your skill training and familiarity with the game is complete.

For most vets who were around back in 97-99... think about the difference between the top tier armor and the basic looted armor off something like an orc or ettin.  There was some differences, but the gap was not the Grand Canyon it is today.  I feel like there needs to be some quests in between the 50 skill and 90 skill levels that provide true usable pieces based on the basic templates.

For example:

Replace the starting spell book for a mage with an empty base scrappers.

@townie - I'd also like to add, I was agreeing with the original poster - this game is very hard for a new player. I've stated there is no structure, the content does not flow, skillgains do not link up with equipment gains.

I've stated there is no obvious progression path, and it's all very confusing for a new player.

What I've done - is give 1 real gameplay example, as to how it could be done, I know it can be done, because this is exactly what I've done, I've been very honest about each step, the good bits, the hard bits, the bits where I've had help, how I got around certain bits.

This is not the only be all and end all example, it is not prescriptive, the point of it was, to give a flavour, and indication of how it could be approached - I was almost showing how hard it was, but also trying to help a player find a way, I hope within there, new or returning players can see and identify steps they can relate to, and could use to their advantage. This method of playing it, did not require any gold, or real life cash to be invested. It did require team-work, it did require joining a Feluccan PvP guild.

As for skipping content, and racing to high end content... 🙂

There is far more to go after this!

I did not touch on Virtues, Buffs/DeBuffs, , Consumables, Masteries, Crafting, putting together High-End Armour, and ultimately PvP in Felucca. There is at least a year to go, before they could be considered ready for that. This was about putting together the first basic Dexxer character, to give them an introduction and flavour to the game. After that, when you have more knowledge of what is what, you can start branching out to what may be more your playstyle, knowing you have an all-round basic farming Dexxer in your inventory to go and do all the basic stuff.

In the past, there have been "new" guilds that helped  players get used to playing.  The GM or active players in the guild would or could create quests for the new player.  Send them on leather gathering missions, or mining missions in order to get gear made for them.  This was a long time ago however.  Times have changed and people have changed.  Everyone  wants to give stuff away but no one wants to spend "time".  I remember the magical adventures of first playing and what  I remember is the interactions with players, not so much the leveling process.  The key to this game has always been about the people you play with, not so much about the content.  The content is fun if you are working with  other people.  If you log into less populated shards there is no one in new haven.  You might see one or two people all day there.  No one to talk to new players.  Perhaps a new spawning point that leads to new haven might be in order.  Let people start at Luna when they first log in.  A quest to show the moongate to New Haven.  At least they will log in to see other players.  Have a quest hub guy in Luna somewhere near the moongate that will send new players to quest givers.

Townie said:

What part of Cookie's list is for a new player?

People giving away full suits. Being carried on a harrower. Free powerscrolls.

Sounds like you are just carrying them completely bypassing any new player experience that they may have encountered. Completely skipped the progression of being new racing into high end content.

Many multiplayer  games do this. In some games it is called rushing. Players with 15 minute attention spans do not want to spend weeks/ months /years advancing their character. 

I've said before the New Haven quest should move from town center to the Mines and surrounding area first set of quest take you to 50 next set to GM. with level appropriate monsters dropping level appropriate gear .. i would even go so far as to say limited PVP with strict limits on who can attack who (based on skill points or such) in an arena type setting allowing only gear found in and around haven...

pity the wiki doesn't actually act like a wiki where users can edit.  Even the Menu is pretty useless when you want to find something.  The only way to find stuff in uowiki is to google what you want and go from there.

Of_Beasts said:
In the past, there have been "new" guilds that helped  players get used to playing.  The GM or active players in the guild would or could create quests for the new player.  Send them on leather gathering missions, or mining missions in order to get gear made for them.  This was a long time ago however.  Times have changed and people have changed. 

New Legacy has the potential to make the game "Noob Friendly" by immersing new players into the game using a limited map.  less stuff to figure out in the beginning and the ability to learn the core systems with less clutter.  Then they can take their character(s) to a regular shard when it's done. could really have potential for a new player Introduction to the game.  

Victim_Of_Siege said:

New Legacy has the potential to make the game "Noob Friendly" by immersing new players into the game using a limited map.  less stuff to figure out in the beginning and the ability to learn the core systems with less clutter.  Then they can take their character(s) to a regular shard when it's done. could really have potential for a new player Introduction to the game.  

The potential of the New Legacy Server is certainly great, towards helping New players to learn the ways of Ultima Online BUT, at least to my opinion, it will also much depend on how much the Design of the Shard and of its mechanics will be able to contain and limit not only players' killing, but also the use of scripts and cheats/hacks...

I mean, I have zero doubts that it will attract lots of existing Veteran players whose only goal will be that of making the life miserable of those New players who will try to set foot in Ultima Online via the New Legacy Server and, knowing already the ins and outs of Ultima Online, these Veteran players, if also able to use scripts, hacks, cheats and Third Party utilities, will quickly get settled and advanced and, thus, own any New player that will try to start on the New Legacy Server...

Rinse and repeat for each start of a new Season...

Obviously, if this will happen, this might deter away new players after the few first times that they got pkilled in a match where they do not have a chance because their opponents are already far more advanced and knowledged as they are....

And the New Legacy Server will be a big fail in its main goal, should this happen, that to attract new players to Ultima Online....

So, at least to my opinion, the # 1 and outmost priority for the developers should be that of making real sure that players' killing will be severely punished on the New Legacy Server, and in a way that pkillers won't be able to work around or exploit, somehow, and that cheats, hacks and scripts will always be found out and heavily followed up with severe sanctions from day 1.

Otherwise, I am not seeing the New Legacy Server going to be of much use if any at all, to bring new players to Ultima Online and in this regards, it might become, should it will indeed become a failure to attract (and keep) new players to Ultima Online, consistently, a waste of time and resources invested into it ....

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

New Legacy has the potential to make the game "Noob Friendly" by immersing new players into the game using a limited map.  less stuff to figure out in the beginning and the ability to learn the core systems with less clutter.  Then they can take their character(s) to a regular shard when it's done. could really have potential for a new player Introduction to the game.  

The potential of the New Legacy Server is certainly great, towards helping New players to learn the ways of Ultima Online BUT, at least to my opinion, it will also much depend on how much the Design of the Shard and of its mechanics will be able to contain and limit not only players' killing, but also the use of scripts and cheats/hacks...

I mean, I have zero doubts that it will attract lots of existing Veteran players whose only goal will be that of making the life miserable of those New players who will try to set foot in Ultima Online via the New Legacy Server and, knowing already the ins and outs of Ultima Online, these Veteran players, if also able to use scripts, hacks, cheats and Third Party utilities, will quickly get settled and advanced and, thus, own any New player that will try to start on the New Legacy Server...

Rinse and repeat for each start of a new Season...

Obviously, if this will happen, this might deter away new players after the few first times that they got pkilled in a match where they do not have a chance because their opponents are already far more advanced and knowledged as they are....

And the New Legacy Server will be a big fail in its main goal, should this happen, that to attract new players to Ultima Online....

So, at least to my opinion, the # 1 and outmost priority for the developers should be that of making real sure that players' killing will be severely punished on the New Legacy Server, and in a way that pkillers won't be able to work around or exploit, somehow, and that cheats, hacks and scripts will always be found out and heavily followed up with severe sanctions from day 1.

Otherwise, I am not seeing the New Legacy Server going to be of much use if any at all, to bring new players to Ultima Online and in this regards, it might become, should it will indeed become a failure to attract (and keep) new players to Ultima Online, consistently, a waste of time and resources invested into it ....

Veterans will certainly play this shard along with new players. We will need Veterans there to help them with learning the core gameplay.  There may be cheaters, but then again they may put a system in place to limit the amount of cheats and hacks that will work. The truth of it is we just don't have enough information yet and any speculation is not based on fact. we will know more later so there is no need for all the negativity and doom saying, let's give it a chance before you start nailing the coffin shut. As a veteran player you should show a little more optimism and hope and be excited of the possibility that new players will be joining us. At least, that is how I see it . . .

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

New Legacy has the potential to make the game "Noob Friendly" by immersing new players into the game using a limited map.  less stuff to figure out in the beginning and the ability to learn the core systems with less clutter.  Then they can take their character(s) to a regular shard when it's done. could really have potential for a new player Introduction to the game.  

The potential of the New Legacy Server is certainly great, towards helping New players to learn the ways of Ultima Online BUT, at least to my opinion, it will also much depend on how much the Design of the Shard and of its mechanics will be able to contain and limit not only players' killing, but also the use of scripts and cheats/hacks...

I mean, I have zero doubts that it will attract lots of existing Veteran players whose only goal will be that of making the life miserable of those New players who will try to set foot in Ultima Online via the New Legacy Server and, knowing already the ins and outs of Ultima Online, these Veteran players, if also able to use scripts, hacks, cheats and Third Party utilities, will quickly get settled and advanced and, thus, own any New player that will try to start on the New Legacy Server...

Rinse and repeat for each start of a new Season...

Obviously, if this will happen, this might deter away new players after the few first times that they got pkilled in a match where they do not have a chance because their opponents are already far more advanced and knowledged as they are....

And the New Legacy Server will be a big fail in its main goal, should this happen, that to attract new players to Ultima Online....

So, at least to my opinion, the # 1 and outmost priority for the developers should be that of making real sure that players' killing will be severely punished on the New Legacy Server, and in a way that pkillers won't be able to work around or exploit, somehow, and that cheats, hacks and scripts will always be found out and heavily followed up with severe sanctions from day 1.

Otherwise, I am not seeing the New Legacy Server going to be of much use if any at all, to bring new players to Ultima Online and in this regards, it might become, should it will indeed become a failure to attract (and keep) new players to Ultima Online, consistently, a waste of time and resources invested into it ....

Veterans will certainly play this shard along with new players. We will need Veterans there to help them with learning the core gameplay.  There may be cheaters, but then again they may put a system in place to limit the amount of cheats and hacks that will work. The truth of it is we just don't have enough information yet and any speculation is not based on fact. we will know more later so there is no need for all the negativity and doom saying, let's give it a chance before you start nailing the coffin shut. As a veteran player you should show a little more optimism and hope and be excited of the possibility that new players will be joining us. At least, that is how I see it . . .

I am all in favour of the New Legacy Shard, I am convinced that it has a lot of potential to facilitate the access of new players to Ultima Online.

That said, though, I am "also" convinced that its success of fail will much depend on "how" it will be done....

That we like it or not, Ultima Online has quite a record of some players playing it just for the fun of making fellow players' gaming life miserable.

And, unfortunately, it does not take that many of this type of detrimental players to deter away a whole bunch of other players and thus hurt UO of its players' base numbers....

So, the Project can be usefull, to my opinion, but only and if the New Shard will make sure that players' killers will be kept severely at bay and that hacks, cheats and scripts will be strongly detected and actions taken from day 1.

At least, that is how I see it.

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

New Legacy has the potential to make the game "Noob Friendly" by immersing new players into the game using a limited map.  less stuff to figure out in the beginning and the ability to learn the core systems with less clutter.  Then they can take their character(s) to a regular shard when it's done. could really have potential for a new player Introduction to the game.  

The potential of the New Legacy Server is certainly great, towards helping New players to learn the ways of Ultima Online BUT, at least to my opinion, it will also much depend on how much the Design of the Shard and of its mechanics will be able to contain and limit not only players' killing, but also the use of scripts and cheats/hacks...

I mean, I have zero doubts that it will attract lots of existing Veteran players whose only goal will be that of making the life miserable of those New players who will try to set foot in Ultima Online via the New Legacy Server and, knowing already the ins and outs of Ultima Online, these Veteran players, if also able to use scripts, hacks, cheats and Third Party utilities, will quickly get settled and advanced and, thus, own any New player that will try to start on the New Legacy Server...

Rinse and repeat for each start of a new Season...

Obviously, if this will happen, this might deter away new players after the few first times that they got pkilled in a match where they do not have a chance because their opponents are already far more advanced and knowledged as they are....

And the New Legacy Server will be a big fail in its main goal, should this happen, that to attract new players to Ultima Online....

So, at least to my opinion, the # 1 and outmost priority for the developers should be that of making real sure that players' killing will be severely punished on the New Legacy Server, and in a way that pkillers won't be able to work around or exploit, somehow, and that cheats, hacks and scripts will always be found out and heavily followed up with severe sanctions from day 1.

Otherwise, I am not seeing the New Legacy Server going to be of much use if any at all, to bring new players to Ultima Online and in this regards, it might become, should it will indeed become a failure to attract (and keep) new players to Ultima Online, consistently, a waste of time and resources invested into it ....

Veterans will certainly play this shard along with new players. We will need Veterans there to help them with learning the core gameplay.  There may be cheaters, but then again they may put a system in place to limit the amount of cheats and hacks that will work. The truth of it is we just don't have enough information yet and any speculation is not based on fact. we will know more later so there is no need for all the negativity and doom saying, let's give it a chance before you start nailing the coffin shut. As a veteran player you should show a little more optimism and hope and be excited of the possibility that new players will be joining us. At least, that is how I see it . . .

I am all in favour of the New Legacy Shard, I am convinced that it has a lot of potential to facilitate the access of new players to Ultima Online.

That said, though, I am "also" convinced that its success of fail will much depend on "how" it will be done....

That we like it or not, Ultima Online has quite a record of some players playing it just for the fun of making fellow players' gaming life miserable.

And, unfortunately, it does not take that many of this type of detrimental players to deter away a whole bunch of other players and thus hurt UO of its players' base numbers....

So, the Project can be usefull, to my opinion, but only and if the New Shard will make sure that players' killers will be kept severely at bay and that hacks, cheats and scripts will be strongly detected and actions taken from day 1.

At least, that is how I see it.

So you're all for it, but you are proclaiming it's failure before it even get's released? Gotcha. Don't really have anything else to say to you Popps

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

New Legacy has the potential to make the game "Noob Friendly" by immersing new players into the game using a limited map.  less stuff to figure out in the beginning and the ability to learn the core systems with less clutter.  Then they can take their character(s) to a regular shard when it's done. could really have potential for a new player Introduction to the game.  

The potential of the New Legacy Server is certainly great, towards helping New players to learn the ways of Ultima Online BUT, at least to my opinion, it will also much depend on how much the Design of the Shard and of its mechanics will be able to contain and limit not only players' killing, but also the use of scripts and cheats/hacks...

I mean, I have zero doubts that it will attract lots of existing Veteran players whose only goal will be that of making the life miserable of those New players who will try to set foot in Ultima Online via the New Legacy Server and, knowing already the ins and outs of Ultima Online, these Veteran players, if also able to use scripts, hacks, cheats and Third Party utilities, will quickly get settled and advanced and, thus, own any New player that will try to start on the New Legacy Server...

Rinse and repeat for each start of a new Season...

Obviously, if this will happen, this might deter away new players after the few first times that they got pkilled in a match where they do not have a chance because their opponents are already far more advanced and knowledged as they are....

And the New Legacy Server will be a big fail in its main goal, should this happen, that to attract new players to Ultima Online....

So, at least to my opinion, the # 1 and outmost priority for the developers should be that of making real sure that players' killing will be severely punished on the New Legacy Server, and in a way that pkillers won't be able to work around or exploit, somehow, and that cheats, hacks and scripts will always be found out and heavily followed up with severe sanctions from day 1.

Otherwise, I am not seeing the New Legacy Server going to be of much use if any at all, to bring new players to Ultima Online and in this regards, it might become, should it will indeed become a failure to attract (and keep) new players to Ultima Online, consistently, a waste of time and resources invested into it ....

Veterans will certainly play this shard along with new players. We will need Veterans there to help them with learning the core gameplay.  There may be cheaters, but then again they may put a system in place to limit the amount of cheats and hacks that will work. The truth of it is we just don't have enough information yet and any speculation is not based on fact. we will know more later so there is no need for all the negativity and doom saying, let's give it a chance before you start nailing the coffin shut. As a veteran player you should show a little more optimism and hope and be excited of the possibility that new players will be joining us. At least, that is how I see it . . .

I am all in favour of the New Legacy Shard, I am convinced that it has a lot of potential to facilitate the access of new players to Ultima Online.

That said, though, I am "also" convinced that its success of fail will much depend on "how" it will be done....

That we like it or not, Ultima Online has quite a record of some players playing it just for the fun of making fellow players' gaming life miserable.

And, unfortunately, it does not take that many of this type of detrimental players to deter away a whole bunch of other players and thus hurt UO of its players' base numbers....

So, the Project can be usefull, to my opinion, but only and if the New Shard will make sure that players' killers will be kept severely at bay and that hacks, cheats and scripts will be strongly detected and actions taken from day 1.

At least, that is how I see it.

So you're all for it, but you are proclaiming it's failure before it even get's released? Gotcha. Don't really have anything else to say to you Popps

Not at all !

Just saying that, to my opinion, there are some things (contain severely players' killing and cheats/hacks/scripting) which I think are important to determine whether or not the New Legacy Shard will succeed to attract and KEEP New Players playing Ultima Online...

So, we'll see how it will go.

I was wondering about if the Legacy Shard will have LRC items.  If it is the return to old school then it should not.  Let thieves be able to steal reagents in pvp 🙂

I don't post much here, and I am also a returning player from a long time ago. Things certainly have changed. There was a comment about the game having 23 years worth of systems stacked upon each other. When I played, the goal was simple: Do what you wanted to do. It was a sandbox game, and your adventures weren't handed to you via quests. You went out with your friends and made your own adventures. The armor and weapon systems were simple. Now we have this complicated system of creating weapons and armor with the properties someone wants (or whatever the current meta is).

As a returning player, my goal is pretty straight forward. I want a house. I want to grow plants. My main character is a crafter, but I call him a merchant. I want to set up some vendors to sell both crafted items and materials. I want to create an environment that players will visit, have a conversation, and experience some fun.

I don't do PvM all that much, but I do have a new character that I am experimenting with on these skills. That's the fun of it. I don't want to subscribe to the current meta of having a "sampire" or other build. I want to try out different skill combinations and not be like everyone else. The whole meta thing comes from current day MMOs like WoW, which I never really enjoyed anyway.

I want to be what I want to be, and do it the way I want to do it. That's the beauty of lure of Ultima Online. I hope that the New Legacy shard will help achieve this. I do plan on being there, and will absolutely help mentor new players. 

By the way, I am glad to be back. I missed the game, and I missed the players. 

Edit: And oh wow, my signature. LOL. I had forgotten about it. Nostalgia to the max! 

Glowember said:

I don't post much here, and I am also a returning player from a long time ago. Things certainly have changed. There was a comment about the game having 23 years worth of systems stacked upon each other. When I played, the goal was simple: Do what you wanted to do. It was a sandbox game, and your adventures weren't handed to you via quests. You went out with your friends and made your own adventures. The armor and weapon systems were simple. Now we have this complicated system of creating weapons and armor with the properties someone wants (or whatever the current meta is).

As a returning player, my goal is pretty straight forward. I want a house. I want to grow plants. My main character is a crafter, but I call him a merchant. I want to set up some vendors to sell both crafted items and materials. I want to create an environment that players will visit, have a conversation, and experience some fun.

I don't do PvM all that much, but I do have a new character that I am experimenting with on these skills. That's the fun of it. I don't want to subscribe to the current meta of having a "sampire" or other build. I want to try out different skill combinations and not be like everyone else. The whole meta thing comes from current day MMOs like WoW, which I never really enjoyed anyway.

I want to be what I want to be, and do it the way I want to do it. That's the beauty of lure of Ultima Online. I hope that the New Legacy shard will help achieve this. I do plan on being there, and will absolutely help mentor new players. 

By the way, I am glad to be back. I missed the game, and I missed the players. 

Edit: And oh wow, my signature. LOL. I had forgotten about it. Nostalgia to the max! 

 I don't want to subscribe to the current meta of having a "sampire" or other build.

This Paragraph here, I think is an important point that needs to be highlighted....

I am MUCH worried that, with the current "set up" for Events from now on, the so-called "Treasures of.....", much of the multitude of the Templates in Ultima Online will get neglected and what we will see is pretty much, from now on, what we have been seeing in Deceit....

Sampires, or should I say Dexers, and some more Dexers....

I sure hope that I am being pessimistic here, and that instead, with the future releases of these "Treasures of...." we will indeed see also other Templates being "THE" one Templates to be used to get the drops, and not just Sampires, Dexers and the likes....

I would LOVE to see content released for Bards, Rogues (not necessarily only Thieves...), Tamers, Treasure Hunters, Spellcasters in their various forms and shapes, Crafters in their various shapes and forms, Fishermen, Miners and Lumberjackers (why shouldn't they ever get some cool new items from their professions ?) and not just see Fighters, namely Sampires and Dexers, to have the highest drop rate somewhat be "tailored" for them, neglecting any of the other Professions in Ultima Online...

Also, I frankly do not understand WHY the new added content permits at all to have 1 kind of Template be THE ONE that gets the highest drops rate....

To my opinion, instead, the drop rate should be adjusted with some coding to be equalized for any and all types of Professions in Ultima Online so that we could see players enjoying it with their preferred and most enjoyable profession in Ultima Online and not just using the type of Template which "works the best" to get the most drops....

popps said:

Also, I frankly do not understand WHY the new added content permits at all to have 1 kind of Template be THE ONE that gets the highest drops rate....

Exactly. You do not understand game mechanics. Also you must not understand that if you have a ton of 1 hit mobs then a template that can move from one to the next can kill more over time.

You can use any template you want in Deceit. You will just get fewer drops.  Your choice.

There are 2 parts to the new dynamic spawns. The ones that are spawns are not as friendly to Melee once the levels advance.  The devs did a good job of balancing the two.  But someone like yourself who does not understand how to kill things in UO will just not get it.

Learn to Play UO before you make proclamations.

Pawain said:

popps said:

Also, I frankly do not understand WHY the new added content permits at all to have 1 kind of Template be THE ONE that gets the highest drops rate....

Exactly. You do not understand game mechanics. Also you must not understand that if you have a ton of 1 hit mobs then a template that can move from one to the next can kill more over time.

You can use any template you want in Deceit. You will just get fewer drops.  Your choice.

There are 2 parts to the new dynamic spawns. The ones that are spawns are not as friendly to Melee once the levels advance.  The devs did a good job of balancing the two.  But someone like yourself who does not understand how to kill things in UO will just not get it.

Learn to Play UO before you make proclamations.

Maybe I was unfortunate to let myself be understood....

I do understand why PLAYERS pick the Template "that works".... the one that gets the most drops..... it is logical for the players....

What I do NOT understand, is why the "Developers" put out new content that "favours" a particular Template over all of the others.... and not only that.... why that Template is pretty much always the same.... it is either a Sampire or variations of that... still a Melee fighter...

What about all of the other Professions in Ultima Online ?

When will we see new "Treasures of...." content where actually it is Bards who gets the most drops.... or Fishermen.... or Treasure Hunters, or Rogues (not necessarily just Thieves...), or Tamers, or Spellcasters in their various forms and shapes, or Crafters in their various forms and shapes, or also Miners and Lumberjacks....

Got the hang of what I am trying to say ?

I do not see why the "Design" of the new content is pretty much most always one that favours Sampires or their variations.... dexers in general....

Why all of the other Professions in Ultima Online do not get this same treatment and are made able THEM, to get the most drops, rather then Melee Templates, sometimes ?

@popps explain how they would make things to kill that favor a crafters template?  You make no sense at all.  We have 6 character slots. Make a melee toon if you want to participate in these events.  Even tho your archer or tamer will work and get drops.

And if your negativity has not driven them away, this event is very good for Noobs and returners. We leave the first floor to them on LS. I have a TAMER sitting out front that can kill any paragon that they bring to the entry.  Amazing how my tamer can kill the hardest things there...

Pawain said:

@ popps explain how they would make things to kill that favor a crafters template?  You make no sense at all.  We have 6 character slots. Make a melee toon if you want to participate in these events.  Even tho your archer or tamer will work and get drops.

And if your negativity has not driven them away, this event is very good for Noobs and returners. We leave the first floor to them on LS. I have a TAMER sitting out front that can kill any paragon that they bring to the entry.  Amazing how my tamer can kill the hardest things there...

And who said that is "has to be" things to kill ?

Point being, WHY drops to then get Rewards have to come necessarily from fighting and, even then, MOSTLY from using a Sampire or a variation of ?

Can't the Developers Design drops to also go to other Templates so that players who prefer to use a Bard, or a Rogue, or a Treasure Hunter, or a Crafter etc. etc. will still be able to get drops and, thus Rewards ?

Why does it always have to be fighting and fighting and more fighting ?

What about all of the other Professions and Templates in Ultima Online ?

Why cannot they get their Rewards JUST THE SAME, using their favoured Templates and not be forced to have to use a fighting Template and, mind you, not even just "any" fighting Template, but most always a Sampire or a variation of, because, apparently, the highest rate of drops "happens" to always work for this type of a Template, rather then other Templates ?

Make a melee toon if you want to participate in these events. 

This is precisely the mentality that I am opposing !!

Why on earth, a player who, say, enjoys playing a Bard, or a Rogue, or a Tamer, or a Crafter etc. etc. should be FORCED, because of the Developers only focus for the most part on one type of a Template for drops and thus Rewards, that is, Sampires and variations of them who happen to pretty much most always get the most drops ?

To my opinion, this is dead wrong.

Players should not be forced to "have to" make a different Template to the one that they more enjoy playing because "that is the Template that works" for that given Event.... I find this not only dead wrong, but also bad for Ultima Online as a whole because it kinda forces players to have to play a Template different to the one that they actually enjoy to play should they want to participate to a given Event and get whatever Rewards coming from it.....

That's not what gets players enjoy playing a game, to my thinking, if they have to play in a way different to the one that they enjoy should they want the Rewards coming from that Event....

Not to mention, that the Events do not even look to me to be "alternated".... that is, one Event focusing on one type of Template, the following Event on another type of a Template and so forth, thus going through ALL Professions in Ultima Online for players to get that Event's Rewards....

Nope, it is pretty much fighting and more fighting Event after Event.... and not just it is alwats fighting, but it also is Sampires and variations of Sampires who are most always favoured for the highest drop rates !!

That is not good towards promoting and favouring Ultima Online's hystorical variations and multitude of professions, me thinks.... it just promotes Sampires and their variations, over and over and over again.... Event after Event.....

At least, that is how I see it.

@popps and all asking for event to be favourable to other templates... TOD is like champspawn except no final boss but has paragons.

Champspawn has been around for 20 over years and melee warriors have always been most efficient to clear the lower level spawns. 

Melee warrior, the tank and hand to hand combat soldier, has always been the most useful in most battles in Eodon, Peerless, Abyss, etc. Even mages and tamers need tanks - summons and pets, too. 

Support character remains a support role. Most of us also have bards and rogues etc. We have every character template for different purpose.

Its just like real life battles, are u going to ask to create a War for Cooks, Storeman, Signalers, Drivers? These are support roles, and can never lead a fight. Even artillery cannot lead and win fights, not even airforce. Eventually all battles are won and captured by the hardy Tanks and Soldiers.

Seth said:

Its just like real life battles, are u going to ask to create a War for Cooks, Storeman, Signalers, Drivers? These are support roles, and can never lead a fight. Even artillery cannot lead and win fights, not even airforce. Eventually all battles are won and captured by the hardy Tanks and Soldiers.

Again, WHY on earth should the Rewards only come from kills and not from also other Professions?

Why cannot any and all Professions in Ultima Online be given, through Design, the ability to earn their points and thus claim their Rewards ?

Why does it "have to be" always through fighting and, mind you, most always through a Sampire or variations of it ?

This kills the variability of Ultima Online and its appealin having so many varied professions, doesn't it ?

@popps if we could get more drops from crafting then we would make crafters.  Maybe you are confused because you are the only player that neither adapts or accepts the outcome of a particular event.  I doubt fishers get any deceit drops while in the seas of Tokuno.  They accept that, they can fish or go to the correct spot and fight.

Pawain said:

@ popps if we could get more drops from crafting then we would make crafters.  Maybe you are confused because you are the only player that neither adapts or accepts the outcome of a particular event.  I doubt fishers get any deceit drops while in the seas of Tokuno.  They accept that, they can fish or go to the correct spot and fight.

Again, why is it MOST ALWAYS that these Events drops and Rewards are given to fighters characters and, even then, to Sampires and variations of and not also to "other" fighting characters in the same drop rate quantity ?

For example, next Event will be, to my understanding, Forest of the Dark.... well, will Lumberjackers then be able to get drops and thus Rewards from chpping Trees in that Forest of the Dark ?

I bet that it will again be killing stuff, and very likely that Sampires or their variations of will again be the Template "that works" to get the most drops....

Why couldn't and should't next Event be one that instead focused on ANOTHER TYPE of Profession in Ultima Online and not be a rinse and repeat fighting Event where only the MoBs and settings will change ?

Now no longer Deceit and Undeads but perhaps Yew surroundings and Orcs and Ogres ??

So is this what we are going to expect from this "Treasures or..." ?

Copy Cat of the play out of these Events, on and on with only the type of MoBs and Setting changing but pretty much the unfolding and playing out of the Event being same old same old and lways with fighting and always with Sampires and their variations of getting the most drops ?

Ain't that boring and monotonous and the contrary of interesting and varied gameplay through the playing of different and varied Templates ?

popps said:

Seth said:

Its just like real life battles, are u going to ask to create a War for Cooks, Storeman, Signalers, Drivers? These are support roles, and can never lead a fight. Even artillery cannot lead and win fights, not even airforce. Eventually all battles are won and captured by the hardy Tanks and Soldiers.

Again, WHY on earth should the Rewards only come from kills and not from also other Professions?

Why cannot any and all Professions in Ultima Online be given, through Design, the ability to earn their points and thus claim their Rewards ?

Why does it "have to be" always through fighting and, mind you, most always through a Sampire or variations of it ?

This kills the variability of Ultima Online and its appealin having so many varied professions, doesn't it ?

Its just the same reason why the warrior cannot make his own suit unless he swap out his skills. Like it or not, this is a hunting event, not artisan or rogue event.

If the new shard is pre-AOS there will be no sampires...

redacted 🙂

McDougle said:

If the new shard is pre-AOS there will be no sampires...

Even if there is such option, its hard to make one as efficient as the current servers, within a year before its wiped. Unless its like TC ofcourse, where we can get anything from the menu, lol.

P

McDougle said:

If the new shard is pre-AOS there will be no sampires...

Seth said:

popps said:

Seth said:

Its just like real life battles, are u going to ask to create a War for Cooks, Storeman, Signalers, Drivers? These are support roles, and can never lead a fight. Even artillery cannot lead and win fights, not even airforce. Eventually all battles are won and captured by the hardy Tanks and Soldiers.

Again, WHY on earth should the Rewards only come from kills and not from also other Professions?

Why cannot any and all Professions in Ultima Online be given, through Design, the ability to earn their points and thus claim their Rewards ?

Why does it "have to be" always through fighting and, mind you, most always through a Sampire or variations of it ?

This kills the variability of Ultima Online and its appealin having so many varied professions, doesn't it ?

Its just the same reason why the warrior cannot make his own suit unless he swap out his skills. Like it or not, this is a hunting event, not artisan or rogue event.

How about some VARIABILITY in how the drops and the Rewards are awarded from Event to Event ?

Why cannot there be a ROTATION in what Profession was to get the most drops and best Rewards at any given Event ?

Does it always have to be Sampires or their variations of who get the most drops and Rewards at any and all Events ?

Serious ?

@popps I really don't understand where you're coming from. The very first character I made, back in 2000 was the one whose name I use for forums, Petra Fyde. She was, and is, a sword swinging warrior. I've not played her much recently, finding my tamer usually does better at straightforward hunting. But not for this event, for this my warrior has been dusted off and I'm enjoying playing her. She is not a sampire. There IS a rotation, you're just not seeing it. Some events I've done best on my tamer, some I do better with my bard. For the recent quest I used my tamer, my warrior, my archer, my bard, my treasure hunter and my thief to obtain the virtue tiles. How much more inclusive could it be?
I have a variety of different characters, each has their part to play. Isn't that why we have multiple slots in our account rather than be restricted to just one? My crafters support my hunters, in return my hunters obtain resources to support my crafters. Both provide items for vendors to support fellow players; though I have no interest nor dealings in so-called 'rares', just day to day supplies.

I also, along with most of the people I play with, do what I can to support the 'noob' in the title of this thread. 

popps said:

How about some VARIABILITY in how the drops and the Rewards are awarded from Event to Event ?

Why cannot there be a ROTATION in what Profession was to get the most drops and best Rewards at any given Event ?

Does it always have to be Sampires or their variations of who get the most drops and Rewards at any and all Events ?

Serious ?

I played in 97/98 and then many years on „free shards“ (mostly rpg), so I’d like to give my feedback on this topic.

 

First I was surprised and I wallowed in memories, but the frustration overwhelmed quite fast. Luckily, I used google before launching UO and I found a great 101 video how an advanced player makes a sampire from the very first beginning. I don’t know how many hours this saved me for the simplest basic stuff.

I try it to keep it short, with basics:

 

-          first impression after the first login: what the…???

A total mess on the screen, bars everywhere and in disorder. Primary and secondary weapon attacks in the bar, not usable for xy hours of training.. that’s the first impression a completely noob should begin? As a bonus in 50% of the time the content of containers (even own backpack) became only visible after moving/reopening them – changing the game language to English solved it.

 

-          forum search, finding help for answers

Luckily, someone made a sticky post, that for a forum search, please use google (with the ‘site: ‘ ). A great help, but..ahm.. yes.

And, please try out “forum help” or “forum FAQ”, or to be more specific: how can I post on this forum? I could login with my game Account but couldn’t “post reply”/”create new..”. There was no such option/button..After _days_ of searching how to post my question(s) on the forum, and using for the login using different browsers, on different PC/laptop, made even another account, ….). No way,.. no answer. I found it out and the buttons appeared. .. Perhaps I will post the answer later.

Yes, using the in game help chat could be a possibility, but most times you get an hour later as response “Buy cheap UO gold at…”.

 

 

-          and some fundamental game play questions

How can I have a chat message window, that can be used as chat window? The spell fizzles, gaining confidence, etc spams aren’t helpful. I have also taken note of a non-existent combat log – who wants to know why and from what he died? pff.. Alternative options like custom UIs are obviously not available any more.

And any help with the targeting system in combat? “Target nearest enemy”, “Target next enemy” keybinding, the mob-bar or simple direct mouse-click works most of the time. But then, I don’t know how many times in my short playing a mob standing in my character couldn’t be targeted (even don’t show up in the mob bar) without aggroing everything in line of sight and beyond. And yes, it often ended in dismounting myself and corpse running.

.. oh my, I could write so much more.

 

Perhaps the title should be changed in “UO is not player friendly”?

Seth said:

popps said:

How about some VARIABILITY in how the drops and the Rewards are awarded from Event to Event ?

Why cannot there be a ROTATION in what Profession was to get the most drops and best Rewards at any given Event ?

Does it always have to be Sampires or their variations of who get the most drops and Rewards at any and all Events ?

Serious ?

Seriously you could be correct to ask for variability, however, it remains that the monsters created for this hunting event "happens" to be faster for warriors (not just sampires). As I read in Stratics, many players posted warrior (dragoon) template for the event. I also see many players using archers and mages to clear those inaccessible monsters on ledges and ponds.

In the past, Katalkotl and Khaldun also have rogue elements added, so maybe future events may include them. Who knows.

BTW, mage-tamers can still get the drops. Consider that I am super lagged out in Atlantic, I used my spellweaving tamer mage to get over 100 drops in Atlantic using a Cu Sidhe and spell attacks. I exchanged for a Morphius epaulette and sold the remaining drops when the price was good. Now I am hunting on a third shard which I play. In all, there is enough time for me to play this event on 3 shards.

That's odd, though, that also Deceit's Treasure of the Undead Lords was Warriors friendly... as it was also the Invasions (although this is old content) before them....

What I am trying to say is, that Event after Event, new content after new content, it looks to me that the Template "that works best" is quite often, too often I would say, a Warrior be it a Sampire of variations of it....

popps said:

Seth said:

popps said:

How about some VARIABILITY in how the drops and the Rewards are awarded from Event to Event ?

Why cannot there be a ROTATION in what Profession was to get the most drops and best Rewards at any given Event ?

Does it always have to be Sampires or their variations of who get the most drops and Rewards at any and all Events ?

Serious ?

Seriously you could be correct to ask for variability, however, it remains that the monsters created for this hunting event "happens" to be faster for warriors (not just sampires). As I read in Stratics, many players posted warrior (dragoon) template for the event. I also see many players using archers and mages to clear those inaccessible monsters on ledges and ponds.

In the past, Katalkotl and Khaldun also have rogue elements added, so maybe future events may include them. Who knows.

BTW, mage-tamers can still get the drops. Consider that I am super lagged out in Atlantic, I used my spellweaving tamer mage to get over 100 drops in Atlantic using a Cu Sidhe and spell attacks. I exchanged for a Morphius epaulette and sold the remaining drops when the price was good. Now I am hunting on a third shard which I play. In all, there is enough time for me to play this event on 3 shards.

That's odd, though, that also Deceit's Treasure of the Undead Lords was Warriors friendly... as it was also the Invasions (although this is old content) before them....

What I am trying to say is, that Event after Event, new content after new content, it looks to me that the Template "that works best" is quite often, too often I would say, a Warrior be it a Sampire of variations of it....

It depends, clearing low level mobs can be warrior or mage using area effect attacks.

For EM Event Moderator led events, I feel most use mages, tamers or archers, because the bosses are normally very hard hitters.

For current event boss, it has life taint so my sampire need to turn off necro vampiric embrace. Its only effective for the 4 levels of mob except for those paralysing corpser like tentacles.

As i said, Sampires are easily beaten.

What makes UO Noob Friendly is the community of players helping them along. MMORPG, emphasis on Multiplayer. 

I just read through this and saw someone's ideas about manuals for the game. This is a super great idea. Examples:

1) Dungeons! Should you progress enough in combat skills to best the mongbats and ettins roaming around New Haven. Venture through the moongate and head northward to the elemental dungeon Shame! It would be beneficial to have 60 anatomy and 60 healing so that you can cure the poison of the scorpions! (Show picture of the Scorpions in shame lvl 1.) For the beloved Earth Elementals, one of Ultima's classic monsters, you would benefit from either attacking at long range or having a weapon with life leech, mana leech, stamina leech, and elemental slayers! Should you venture further down into the depths.........  ect.

2) Crafting Weapons! Your warriors need some good weapons to tackle the many varied beasts of Ultima. Consider either joining a guild so that they can make you weapons, or perhaps you want to make them yourself! It is a good idea to try to reach 100 blacksmithing, 100 bowcrafting/fletching, and 100 imbuing for these weapons. Try out imbuing to add Hit Life Leech, Hit Mana Leech, and Hit Stamina Leech as well as Hit Lower Defense or Hit Lower Attack! There are also slayer and super slayer mods than can be imbued into each of your weapons with Imbuing. (Go in depths about weapon properties.)

3) The City of Luna! Wondering where all the players tend to hang out? Try to venture through the moongate and select Malas to venture to the city of Luna! This is the city of commerce with vendors surrounding the great walled city.

4) Where do People Hang Out? People in Ultima have migrated from the cities of Moonglow and Vesper and such and tend to congregate in the City of Commerce that is Luna! Players also frequent Britain bank still, on the west side of town where there is an arcane circle that players can use for Spellweaving to get their arcane gem for the day. Also, players focus on current events in Ultima. For last Halloween, Dungeon Deceit was usually full with about 100-200 players scouring the depths for magical artifacts to turn in for rewards!

5) How to make Gold in Ultima. There are quite a number of ways for new players to get ahead in Ultima Online. First and foremost, frequent events where players are killing monsters for you to stack up the gold from those corpses! There are also houses falling all the time with items that fall to the ground when the houses collapse! To find the locations, visit the Royal Architects in each city. They will tell you the coordinates of houses near collapse. Visit the locations and the house sign will display how long it has left until it falls! Have fun, and enjoy gathering decorations and equipment for your characters! Should you build up your blacksmithing, tailoring, tinkering, or bowcraft / fletching skills enough, you can also try your hands at the BOD system in Ultima, where city blacksmiths and tailors will make you rich by completing BODs that their city requires! You can also try out city Trade Quests! (Go into details about each of these.... ect....)

6) Character Setup! Your character has maximums in several categories that you can gain both on your own, and from armor/weapons! The maximum skills that you can gain are.....(ect.) Certain skills provide synchronous bonuses as well, such as Anatomy and Evaluate Intelligence! These two skills combine to give your character an effective wrestling ability, even with 0 points in wrestling! If your character uses these two skills, you will gain an advantage against melee opponents! It would also prove useful if you have healing to go with the anatomy! A lot of warriors today discard their shield, and have mastered the use of powerful two handed weapons so that they may take advantage of the combined effects of bushido/parrying! Parrying alone allows you to block with a shield. But if you raise your skill in bushido, the shield will help you less and less. But you will gain powerful abilities, such as Confidence (for healing) and Evasion (for blocking magical attacks!). You will also be able to block more effectively than when you had your skill, thanks to the Japanese tradition of blocking with a weapon! (This can be expanded to about 5 pages.....)

7) Events in Ultima!

8) Taming in Ultima!

9) Mysticism.... summon a monster much more powerful than the energy vortex from a traditional mage! Summon the Collosus!

Have these short and simple..... and make a help tab in game with the tutorials. They can click on New Player Help and read anything they want In Game..... no websites. New players will never go to a website to learn how to play that game. Take them to Luna! Show them the players! Players will help out greatly..... but I seriously want you guys to consider..... that most new players go to Moonglow or Britain on a low population shard and it is utterly empty. Start them in LUNA!!!!! That will give Ultima hundreds of more players that stay. I promise. Every time I meet a new player, I ask them if they know where Luna is? They say.... "No. What is Luna?" They are so glad after I show them.... but I am certain there were 1000's that have came and went thinking Ultima was empty now with no players. They never got that benefit of finding Luna.