Of the 56 existing skills why only 33 are in the 6 skills' groups ?

https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/

What about all of the other skills ?

Why don't they spawn on items or cannot they be imbued ?

Sure, perhaps someone might not be "that" happy to get a ring with 20 Camping on it but well, perhaps someone might be looking for that ring with 20 Detect Hidden on or want to imbue some 15 fishing on their bracelet....

I do not see the point to have "Class A" skills and "Class B" skills...

Some skills may not matter to some players but to others they might so, why don't just have ALL of them be covered both in the spawn and in being able to imbue them and leave it to players whether to use them or not ?

The skills that can be placed on jewels are the same skills that you can obtain 120 skill from a powerscroll from a champion spawn.

Mervyn said:

The skills that can be placed on jewels are the same skills that you can obtain 120 skill from a powerscroll from a champion spawn.

That is my point....

What if a player may want to have on jewels skill points from skills "other" then those ?

Why should they be prevented to ?

Make your own game. Popps Online. You can do whatever you desire. 

Well, there would be a balancing issue. For example If you could have 40 skill in inscribe or poisoning on jewels, you would require only 60 real skill to obtain the max, over 80, this would undermine real skill.

They dont want you to put crafting skills on Jewels....  More easy button Popps?

I really could use jewels with cooking or carpentry on them. I waste a lot of raw fish steaks making sushi platters.  Or equivalents to the +30/+60 Ancient Hammers that you get from the Blacksmith BOD reward. A +60 Ancient Frying Pan or a +60 Ancient Dovetail Saw would be nice.

TimSt said:

I really could use jewels with cooking or carpentry on them. I waste a lot of raw fish steaks making sushi platters.  Or equivalents to the +30/+60 Ancient Hammers that you get from the Blacksmith BOD reward. A +60 Ancient Frying Pan or a +60 Ancient Dovetail Saw would be nice.

You can get a plus 30 apron and a plus 30 talisman.  Ya fish are sooo hard to get....  Maybe you should buy the fish from Popps.

Mervyn said:

Well, there would be a balancing issue. For example If you could have 40 skill in inscribe or poisoning on jewels, you would require only 60 real skill to obtain the max, over 80, this would undermine real skill.

How is that any different then a Thief having only 60 stealing "real" but using 120 thanking to items?

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/45531/#Comment_45531

How is it different? because you're using more slots than jewels?

Mervyn said:

How is it different? because you're using more slots than jewels?

And so what ?

It also goes all the way to 120 rather then 100 only....

Frankly, I see no difference, they are the one and same issue, to my viewing.

Hence, I do not see why all other skills, those missing 23, should not be able to be put on jewelry....

UO has always been a game of checks, balances and choices. Cookie's template, being reliant on those items, means he has had to make sacrifices elsewhere. As an example, my thief, who does not rely on items, has a high amount of HPR, so that I can actually heal up while staying hidden if I need to, she can also invis when the hiding timer won't allow it - there's also a timer on smoke bombs. She has weaknesses Cookie's char doesn't, but on the other hand she has strengths that he doesn't have too. 
Crafters don't really have those concerns, being in the main found in towns or houses. 

Do you really believe what you have posted? Or are you merely dreaming up topics for discussion?

Petra_Fyde said:

UO has always been a game of checks, balances and choices. Cookie's template, being reliant on those items, means he has had to make sacrifices elsewhere. As an example, my thief, who does not rely on items, has a high amount of HPR, so that I can actually heal up while staying hidden if I need to, she can also invis when the hiding timer won't allow it - there's also a timer on smoke bombs. She has weaknesses Cookie's char doesn't, but on the other hand she has strengths that he doesn't have too. 
Crafters don't really have those concerns, being in the main found in towns or houses. 

Do you really believe what you have posted? Or are you merely dreaming up topics for discussion?

Not really, not for a Rogue character at least for which, there are no existing Masteries that, as we know, rely on "real" skill rather then on skill on items....

As I said in that other Thread https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7164/august-2020-newsletter-we-have-some-thoughts-on-the-thief-profession , I have noting against people using skills on items to take advantge of more skills well past beyond the 720 skillpoints CAP (I have heard of players getting 900ish skill points, overall) BUT, and this is the point I am trying to get through, I think that THEN, players who actually STICK on "real" skillpoints thus "reducing" the ability of their Template to be able to benefit from so many skills (some people make use on their Template of 12+ skills.....) should get sound and really valid benefits from their investment in "real" skill points....

I see it moreless like the "Jack of all Trades" for human characters.... they can do a bit of everything but nothing really well....

With skills, it should be the same, to my opinion.

Players who want to have 12+ skills on their Template, but not much in terms of "real" skill points for each and every of those 12+ skills should just get the plain "Jack of all Trades" advantage.... they can do a bit of everything but nothing really good.

Players, who instead, stick with the 6 x 120, all "real" skills, should be able to get the most "juice" out of those 6 skills because they actually trained all those skill points, not just put an item with skill point on and got going.... and also because, in doing that, they limited the skills that they can use with that template to only 6, rather then 12+....

The Masteries are a step in the right direction but, they are missing for example for the Rogues, and they do not prize the investment in "real" skill points well enough, to my opinion.

Usually, those who sport lots of skills, 10 or more, do have at least 1 if not 2 skills all trained to 120 so as to benefit from those Mastieries so, what is the difference ?

Those having 10, 12 or more skills on their Template STILL enjoy the benefit of the Mastery on whatever skill(s) they trained up to 120 and, ON TOP OF THAT, they also take advantage of those other 8, 9 or 10 more skills which they only have 50 or 60 real points in....

One way which could prize the investment in "real" skill points and, thus, of those players using less skills but all trained to their max, could be permitting the concurrant benefit of MORE then 1 single Mastery at the time....

Or, introduce a "Super" Mastery which would only trigger when "multiple" skills are trained up to the fullest...

For example, a Super Mastery for Dexers where it would only kick in if that Dexer had all "real" 120 skill points in a Combat skill, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Resisting Spells....

That would be some 5x 120 = 600 skill points REQUIRED to be invested as "real" skill points for that "Super" Mastery to kick in.... and not just "some" 600 skill points.... but 5 skills related to that particular Super Mastery be trained up "real" to their max possible CAP....

So, to enjoy the added benefit of a Super Mastery, players could not simply add 50 points here and 60 points there BUT, be mandated to have to train multiple skills related to that Super Mastery to their fullest maxed out CAP (in my example of a Super Mastery for dexers they would have to train all the way to 120 a Combat skill, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Resisting Spells for a total of 600 real skill points trained up).

Now, THAT would then really benefit those players who invest in REAL skill points thus reducing the number of skills which they can take advantage of as compared to some other player who, instead, thanking to skill items, can take advantage of some 12+ skills....

Of course, that would also depend on how usefull and really advantageous that Super Mastery would be...

That is how I see it.

Do not take anything away as what they have now from players who want to use 12+ skills or so on their template BUT, give some NEW, really usefull advantage to those players who, instead, train their skills all the way up, 6 x 120, reducing the number of skills which they can use with their Template BUT using them at their fullest potential.

Crafters don't really have those concerns, being in the main found in towns or houses. 

I disagree.

There is Bulk Order Deeds for at least 8 skills of which, Blacksmithying and Tailoring can go all the way to 120. https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/crafting/bulk-orders/

A player who wanted to have them all on 1 single Template, for example to collect BODs more easily, and wanted to have them all trained to the CAP, now cannot.

Because, 6 x 100 + 120 + 120 = 840 skill points.

Now, if there were skill points available on items for those skills, a player COULD then be able to have 1 single Template be able to carry on all 8 Crafting skills and do BODs with him/her or anything else that Crafter would be wanted to do.

They would not need to split those skills in 2 templates nor have to work Soulstones all the time.

I have NO doubt that, if such a thing was available (skill points possible on jewelry and items for those 23 skills now not having this ability), a lot of players would take advantage in many various ways of such a possibility.

Funnily enough, If I could add Tracking to my rogue as well, I would!

And combat skills, and Forensics. 🙂

Not helpful to the conversation, overall I agree with Mervyn and Petra on this one. It is a game of Checks and Balances, and overall, the Devs have put a lot of thought into it.

Petra_Fyde said:

Do you really believe what you have posted? Or are you merely dreaming up topics for discussion?

Best line ever!  

popps said:

BUT, and this is the point I am trying to get through, I think that THEN, players who actually STICK on "real" skillpoints thus "reducing" the ability of their Template to be able to benefit from so many skills (some people make use on their Template of 12+ skills.....) should get sound and really valid benefits from their investment in "real" skill points....

I'm going to say Why? to this, your main point.

I have more skills, you have less skills. But because you have less skills, you can fit a whole lot more properties on your suit than I can.

You have less skills. You have faster casting, you have faster cast recovery, you have DCI, you have HCI, SSI, Damage Eaters, all types of Regens, etc etc etc. The point is, you have less Skills, and far more properties than I have, which also add so much in terms of survivability or utility - I have none of that.

I have sacrificed all my additional property benefits, to get more skills.

Why should you, with less skills, but far more options in terms of other property benefits, then be given even more benefits, because you have less skills?

Should I be turning around and saying, by the way, I'm a good boy, I have no properties on my suit, I've kept it really plain and simple - can I have more properties given to me please, because I chose to use my whole allocation on Skills? It's a stupid argument, of you just wanting more.

TimSt said:

I really could use jewels with cooking or carpentry on them. I waste a lot of raw fish steaks making sushi platters.  Or equivalents to the +30/+60 Ancient Hammers that you get from the Blacksmith BOD reward. A +60 Ancient Frying Pan or a +60 Ancient Dovetail Saw would be nice.

there's an answer for that one already, the master craftsman talisman which prevents loss of materials: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/cooking/cooking-bulk-orders/
Are fish really that hard to come by on your shard?

popps said:

There is Bulk Order Deeds for at least 8 skills of which, Blacksmithying and Tailoring can go all the way to 120. https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/crafting/bulk-orders/

A player who wanted to have them all on 1 single Template, for example to collect BODs more easily, and wanted to have them all trained to the CAP, now cannot.

Because, 6 x 100 + 120 + 120 = 840 skill points.

Now, if there were skill points available on items for those skills, a player COULD then be able to have 1 single Template be able to carry on all 8 Crafting skills and do BODs with him/her or anything else that Crafter would be wanted to do.

They would not need to split those skills in 2 templates nor have to work Soulstones all the time.

I have NO doubt that, if such a thing was available (skill points possible on jewelry and items for those 23 skills now not having this ability), a lot of players would take advantage in many various ways of such a possibility.

We all want more skills, I get that.

My Mage could use more skills to PvP and PvM better.+Inscription+Chiv+Mystic+Necro+Parry.

My Tamer could use more skills to combine T Hunting Taming and all Bard skills.

My Rogue could actually use more rogue skills to make him an all rounder.+Tracking+Forensics+Camping+Fencing+Tactics+Anat+Healing+anything else I fancy.

My Crafter could use more skills, for exactly the reason you mentioned, but you also forgot to mention the base gathering skills that we would also want on our Crafters.

My Dexxer could use more skills to be even more Dexxery.

Above is my Crafter, and these are all the Skills I have stoned for him, and yes, I complete all BODS. All his Skills locked at Zero are Maxed out and held on Soulstones.

I suffer exactly the same way as you do, from Skill restrictions.

Cookie said:

popps said:

BUT, and this is the point I am trying to get through, I think that THEN, players who actually STICK on "real" skillpoints thus "reducing" the ability of their Template to be able to benefit from so many skills (some people make use on their Template of 12+ skills.....) should get sound and really valid benefits from their investment in "real" skill points....

I'm going to say Why? to this, your main point.

I have more skills, you have less skills. But because you have less skills, you can fit a whole lot more properties on your suit than I can.

You have less skills. You have faster casting, you have faster cast recovery, you have DCI, you have HCI, SSI, Damage Eaters, all types of Regens, etc etc etc. The point is, you have less Skills, and far more properties than I have, which also add so much in terms of survivability or utility - I have none of that.

I have sacrificed all my additional property benefits, to get more skills.

Why should you, with less skills, but far more options in terms of other property benefits, then be given even more benefits, because you have less skills?

Should I be turning around and saying, by the way, I'm a good boy, I have no properties on my suit, I've kept it really plain and simple - can I have more properties given to me please, because I chose to use my whole allocation on Skills? It's a stupid argument, of you just wanting more.

Petra_Fyde said:

UO has always been a game of checks, balances and choices. Cookie's template, being reliant on those items, means he has had to make sacrifices elsewhere. As an example, my thief, who does not rely on items, has a high amount of HPR, so that I can actually heal up while staying hidden if I need to, she can also invis when the hiding timer won't allow it - there's also a timer on smoke bombs. She has weaknesses Cookie's char doesn't, but on the other hand she has strengths that he doesn't have too. 
Crafters don't really have those concerns, being in the main found in towns or houses. 

Do you really believe what you have posted? Or are you merely dreaming up topics for discussion?

How about because of "Balance" ?

How many properties and to what extreme, in the end, are those players "jamming" their Templates with many skills renouncing to ?

And how much "pluses" are they getting from being able to get advantages from well over the 6 or 7 skills that a "realist" player (one who invests only or mostly in "real" skill points) ?

There is Looted Legendary items which come with 60+ skill points on them, sure, one needs to wait until the "right" assortment comes by BUT, at least on Atlantic, where there is a fast turn around of items, depending on the assortment of skills that one is looking for, that wait might not be "that" long....

And in between a ring and a bracelet there is alreasy some 120 skill points bringing one to 840 from the 720 CAP...

My point being, is that the advantage from being able to use a higher number of skills through skill tems, to my opinion, largely offests the little loss of properties that might result from it.

@popps - Not all Skills are equal.

How useful is 100 skillpoints in say Camping, or Snooping, compared to 100 skillpoints in Magery?

It really isn't all about just how many Skillpoints players have.

I could design a template with 720 skillpoints on it, that did far less than say 120 skillpoints invested in just Magery alone.

Do you want to make that your next topic of conversation? Abount how unequal all Skillsets are, and how they should all be balanced up?

Don't you think you should prioritise the endless wave of thoughts that come out of your head, and try and decide if they have any importance or relevence before keep inundating us with every single brain fart?

Cookie said:

popps said:

There is Bulk Order Deeds for at least 8 skills of which, Blacksmithying and Tailoring can go all the way to 120. https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/crafting/bulk-orders/

A player who wanted to have them all on 1 single Template, for example to collect BODs more easily, and wanted to have them all trained to the CAP, now cannot.

Because, 6 x 100 + 120 + 120 = 840 skill points.

Now, if there were skill points available on items for those skills, a player COULD then be able to have 1 single Template be able to carry on all 8 Crafting skills and do BODs with him/her or anything else that Crafter would be wanted to do.

They would not need to split those skills in 2 templates nor have to work Soulstones all the time.

I have NO doubt that, if such a thing was available (skill points possible on jewelry and items for those 23 skills now not having this ability), a lot of players would take advantage in many various ways of such a possibility.

We all want more skills, I get that.

My Mage could use more skills to PvP and PvM better.+Inscription+Chiv+Mystic+Necro+Parry.

My Tamer could use more skills to combine T Hunting Taming and all Bard skills.

My Rogue could actually use more rogue skills to make him an all rounder.+Tracking+Forensics+Camping+Fencing+Tactics+Anat+Healing+anything else I fancy.

My Crafter could use more skills, for exactly the reason you mentioned, but you also forgot to mention the base gathering skills that we would also want on our Crafters.

My Dexxer could use more skills to be even more Dexxery.

Above is my Crafter, and these are all the Skills I have stoned for him, and yes, I complete all BODS. All his Skills locked at Zero are Maxed out and held on Soulstones.

I suffer exactly the same way as you do, from Skill restrictions.

I am quite saying the opposite....

I am saying, with LETTING BE the ability of players to use skill items to go far and well beyond the skill CAP of 720 skill points so as to take advantage of those many more skills as the "REAL" 6 x 120 Skill points Template, I think that the Developers should give MORE benefits to those players who, rather then having 12+ skills on their Template thanking to the use of skill items, trained their mere 6 skills all the way to 120 (or 7 if they are 100.0 skills with no powerscrolls existing for them....).

What is harder and more time consuming ?

To train a skill up to 60 and then "beef it up" to 120 using skill items "on a whim" or actually training that skill all the way to 120 ?

Does it give more benefits and advantages a few properties more for not having to "pump up" skills with items or, rather, the ability to use a good deal of benefits coming from having some 12+ skills on one' own Template ?

To my opinion, and by far, it gives way more advantage to a Template the ability to control some 12+ skills (some in full and some partially) rather then being able to control only 6 or 7 skills in full but being then able to use a few properties more not having to "pump up" skills with skill items.

Therefore, while leaving to players the current ability to use skill items to go well beyond the 720 skill points CAP, I say that the Developers should prize those players who stick on fewer skills but training them to their full CAP.

And no, while Masteries IS a step in the right direction towards prizing the investment of players into "real" skill points, I think they are NOT enough.

Why do I think so ?

Because, currently as they are Designed, ALL players can use a Mastery if they wish so, players who have 900+ skill points on their Template or players who stay within the 720 CAP.

So, as they are now, Masteries do not benefit in any particular better way those players who "stick" within the 720 skill points by using 6 x 120 Templates as compared to those players who make large and wide use of skill items.

If, instead, the ability to use "multiple" Masteries at once was permitted OR, a "Super" Mastery was Designed that was to trigger if, and only if, players trained their characters in SEVERAL (at least 4 if not 5 or 6 skills, all the way to their 100 or 120 CAP, of course related to that Super Mastery) THEN we would be talking of a sound, tangible prize to those players who are sporting many LESS skills (only 6 or 7 as compared to 10+) but all of them trained up to the CAP of those skills.

Sort of like with Bards where, if that Bard has all 4 Bard skills trained up to 120, totallying a real skill points investment of 480 skill points, they get a bonus for their use of those skills or Masteries (by the way, the current bonuses for having invested so heavily in 480 real bardic skills I think are too light.... they should be beefed up, considering the high investment in 4 x 120 skill points in 4 bardic skills....).

Bottom line is, I'd like to see some real love be given to those players who actually invest in training their skills on their Template all the way to 120 without the use of skill items.

So assuming you need to tell the Genie (Dev) your wish in one simple sentence:

Starting Post:
Request 1: Propose to include all skills to spawn on items or can be imbued.

Middle: 
Request 2: Propose a "super mastery" to reward 720 skill template for not using any +Skill Items.

Last:
Request 3: Sorry I am lost...

Its quite long but I managed to catch 2 key requests... I think...

Petra_Fyde said:

TimSt said:

I really could use jewels with cooking or carpentry on them. I waste a lot of raw fish steaks making sushi platters.  Or equivalents to the +30/+60 Ancient Hammers that you get from the Blacksmith BOD reward. A +60 Ancient Frying Pan or a +60 Ancient Dovetail Saw would be nice.

there's an answer for that one already, the master craftsman talisman which prevents loss of materials: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/cooking/cooking-bulk-orders/
Are fish really that hard to come by on your shard?

Fish was only an example.  Using up frostwood is the bigger issue. Sure the master craftsman talisman prevents loss of materials but it does nothing to improve the odds of crafting an exceptional item.  Where as the +30/+60 ancient hammers do improve the odds of crafting an exceptional piece of armour.  I've used almost 2k of frostwood boards filling in just one 20 count exceptional Elegant Armoire small BOD because the chance of crafting an exceptional piece was only 43%.

TimSt said:

Petra_Fyde said:

TimSt said:

I really could use jewels with cooking or carpentry on them. I waste a lot of raw fish steaks making sushi platters.  Or equivalents to the +30/+60 Ancient Hammers that you get from the Blacksmith BOD reward. A +60 Ancient Frying Pan or a +60 Ancient Dovetail Saw would be nice.

there's an answer for that one already, the master craftsman talisman which prevents loss of materials: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/cooking/cooking-bulk-orders/
Are fish really that hard to come by on your shard?

Fish was only an example.  Using up frostwood is the bigger issue. Sure the master craftsman talisman prevents loss of materials but it does nothing to improve the odds of crafting an exceptional item.  Where as the +30/+60 ancient hammers do improve the odds of crafting an exceptional piece of armour.  I've used almost 2k of frostwood boards filling in just one 20 count exceptional Elegant Armoire small BOD because the chance of crafting an exceptional piece was only 43%.

The master talisman has up +30% chance to craft, +30% chance of exceptional. Plus 50 no loss charges, can be recharged with runed switches. A +24 exceptional takes you to 49% on that item.

Pawain said:

TimSt said:

Petra_Fyde said:

TimSt said:

I really could use jewels with cooking or carpentry on them. I waste a lot of raw fish steaks making sushi platters.  Or equivalents to the +30/+60 Ancient Hammers that you get from the Blacksmith BOD reward. A +60 Ancient Frying Pan or a +60 Ancient Dovetail Saw would be nice.

there's an answer for that one already, the master craftsman talisman which prevents loss of materials: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/cooking/cooking-bulk-orders/
Are fish really that hard to come by on your shard?

Fish was only an example.  Using up frostwood is the bigger issue. Sure the master craftsman talisman prevents loss of materials but it does nothing to improve the odds of crafting an exceptional item.  Where as the +30/+60 ancient hammers do improve the odds of crafting an exceptional piece of armour.  I've used almost 2k of frostwood boards filling in just one 20 count exceptional Elegant Armoire small BOD because the chance of crafting an exceptional piece was only 43%.

The master talisman has up +30% chance to craft, +30% chance of exceptional. Plus 50 no loss charges, can be recharged with runed switches.

That 43% already includes the use of a +30% exceptional talisman.  Still not high enough to not waste a lot of frostwood

TimSt said:

Pawain said:

TimSt said:

Petra_Fyde said:

TimSt said:

I really could use jewels with cooking or carpentry on them. I waste a lot of raw fish steaks making sushi platters.  Or equivalents to the +30/+60 Ancient Hammers that you get from the Blacksmith BOD reward. A +60 Ancient Frying Pan or a +60 Ancient Dovetail Saw would be nice.

there's an answer for that one already, the master craftsman talisman which prevents loss of materials: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/cooking/cooking-bulk-orders/
Are fish really that hard to come by on your shard?

Fish was only an example.  Using up frostwood is the bigger issue. Sure the master craftsman talisman prevents loss of materials but it does nothing to improve the odds of crafting an exceptional item.  Where as the +30/+60 ancient hammers do improve the odds of crafting an exceptional piece of armour.  I've used almost 2k of frostwood boards filling in just one 20 count exceptional Elegant Armoire small BOD because the chance of crafting an exceptional piece was only 43%.

The master talisman has up +30% chance to craft, +30% chance of exceptional. Plus 50 no loss charges, can be recharged with runed switches.

That 43% already includes the use of a +30% exceptional talisman.  Still not high enough to not waste a lot of frostwood

Why is mine 49% when im using a +24....  Theres a never ending forest somewhere near Delucia that tends to give frostwood a lot.  We got 60k cadellite infused frostwood while trying for normal wood to make pulp to make infused scrappers.

Is your 49% based on the raw number of what the gump says or by multiplying base% by the exceptional% to find the actual chance?

What the gump says for elegant armoir Frostwood.

@popps



a flawed character is (imho) the better character to play. 
having the uber character that can do/make/kill everything in a game is rather boring. 
where is the challenge? how does one improve? 
there is no challenge and no way to improve so why even bother playing?

I actually asked at a meet & greet if they would consider doing this...
And they turned me down.

I wanted to be able to have +10 Tinkering on a ring and bracelet.
So when I make boxes for lockpicking training, that i could just add the jewels to be able to make them at 70s skill.

If we had jewels for the skill, then I would only have to have skill on one soulstone instead of two. 

=============

Why can't they put a reward into the "Treasures Of" events that lets you pick a ring with your choice of a crafting skill for +20? Crafter's Ring

Pawain said:

What the gump says for elegant armoir Frostwood.

Select frostwood as your wood type on your carpentry tool. Then select elegant armoir.

I've bribed up all of my small carpentry BODs that go into large BODs to require frostwood exceptional.

I chose frostwood for the wood. Without the tali it is 25% ouch. So the Tali doubles chance.

Kirthag said:

a flawed character is (imho) the better character to play. 
having the uber character that can do/make/kill everything in a game is rather boring. 
where is the challenge? how does one improve? 
there is no challenge and no way to improve so why even bother playing?

Apparently, though, rather then seeing Characters in game running and fighting naked or in plain NPCs' bought amor (that would be quite a challenge, wouldn't it be ?), I pretty much always see them going around and fighting in top notch gear, artifacts and the more and higher end the better....

It looks to me a contradiction....

Players open their mouth all the time to speak loud about challenge and yet, they seek the uber items with 17, 18 properties and most of them overcapped, bring on their Template some 12+ skills to be able to do pretty much most of what can be done in the game on one template and Solo this Boss or that other one rather easily thanking to their uber beefed up templates or quantity of skills thanking to skill items...

If players want a challennge in the game and tough fights, why don't they go out there fighting Medusa with NPC bought armor rather then all artifacts/Legendary stuff and weapons imbued to all the most fine tuned properties and slayers to make that fight an easy one for them ?

I mean, they talk about challenge BUT, then, they tailor their Templates to make those fights easy for them and, thus, not challenging any longer.

Ain't that a contradiction ?

If they want challenge, why do they want to beef up their Templates and gear to make those fights easy, rather then tough ones ?

@popps

That is their play style. They seek the uber gear - but if they ever get it, they most likely would get bored and eventually leave because well... what else is there?

Really now - I still have my lovely silver vanq katana (altho it isn't called that anymore - more's the pity) and I take it to go romp around sometimes because really, the weapon's specs are the same as it always has been, is just named differently - and it is a weak weapon, comparatively speaking when you look at the uber drops that can and do happen, yes I give you that - but I keep it and I use it because well, it is sentimental to me and it took me forever to get it (back in the day) and I honestly love that katana regardless of what others say when I show up with it and they laugh at me. 

I hate run-on sentences like that... is so cumbersome to write. I honestly dunno how you do it dude.

My point is, the devs create the code to purposely mix it up so there is no "perfect" item - they have to be flawed, or believe you me, people will grow bored. It also gives the crafters a reason to *gasp* craft/alter/improve/imbue said items (another issue you harp on about).

Basic psychology. Might wanna read up on it.

As Mick Jagger croons, "You can't always get what you want."