VETERINARY : Does any Tamer "really" use this skill much other then for ressing pets (if even...) ?

I have noticed that, most tamers tend to heal their pets from a distance, without using the Veterinary skill which, as of now, requires the Tamer to be next to the pet.

So, in the end, this skill, other then for resurrecting a pet, stays much neglected and unused by most Tamers.

Infact, I am running into more and more Tamers who do not even have this skill on their Tamer anymore, most likely they have it on a Soulstone and "pick it up" if they need to resurrect a pet but, on a regular basis, the Veterinary skill pretty much remains parked on a Tamer's Soulstone....

And even that use, the resurrecting of a pet, is not really needed as in the game there are NPCs who can resurrect a pet for a small charge AND, also, there is available the Elixir of Rebirth which is a craftable potion that can be used to resurrect pets just doing without the Veterinary skill, outright........

To my viewing, if a skill like Veterinary largely remains unused by Tamers, this obviously hints that, as it is, there is problems with its mechanics and with the way that it works so big, that most Tamers end up deciding not to use it on a regular basis....

Yet, it is a large investment of skill points which, to my opinion, should instead provide an advantage, and a sound, really effective one, to the Tamer who decides to invest so many other skill points on their Template thus having to give up some other skill in the exchange....

Perhaps, therefore, it is then time for the Developers to then make some changes to the way that Veterinary works and, just as a mere example, either permit a Tamer to Vet a pet while staying hidden next to it ( (area spells cast by Monsters are a BIG issue here, it should be possible, when having a sufficient Veterinary skill level, to be able to get through area spells without getting revealed when healing a pet through the Veterinary skill...) and, also, to give to the Veterinary skill a "ranged" ability to heal a pet from a distance thus enabling players who invest 120.0 of their skill points into this skill to be able to make some tangible use out of it other then to merely resurrect a pet ?

Of course, the higher the Veterinary skill the harder would then become for the Tamer to be "revealed" while vetting the pet, also if Area spells were to be cast, and the farther the range it would be that the Tamer would be able to heal the pet thus justifying the investment of 120.0 skill points of Veterinary on a Tamer's template....

And to make the actual investment on a Template of Veterinary skill points more rewarding, the Developers could make it so that it would have to be "real" skill points in Veterinary that give the actual benefit of staying hidden and being able to heal a pet from a distance thus avoinding Tamers to just put Veterinary skill points on items and rewarding those Tamers who actually "spend" skill points on their Template....

Just a few ideas dropped there to start a discussion but, I think, the issue is all there, the Veterinary skill definitivelt needs some changes to make it appealing and wanted to be used by the Tamers of Ultima Online.

@Kyronix , @Bleak , would it be possible to please see Veterinary be made a skill usefull to have, and one that Tamers would actually want to spend 120.0 skill points on for their Tamers' template ?

Thank you so much !

Speaking only for myself, yes my tamer uses vet. I only ever heal with magery if the creature we're fighting has an area effect or casts area spells. My vet skill is at 120 and has never been on a soulstone. 
It would be nice to be able to stay by the pet during area spells, but how open to abuse would such an ability be?

For the love of god don't "fix" taming. Its not broken! And yes Popps, I do not run vet on many of my tamers, I use spellweaving in place of it. Having Vet increases stable slots as I recall so it has a use besides the obvious. 

Petra_Fyde said:

Speaking only for myself, yes my tamer uses vet. I only ever heal with magery if the creature we're fighting has an area effect or casts area spells. My vet skill is at 120 and has never been on a soulstone. 
It would be nice to be able to stay by the pet during area spells, but how open to abuse would such an ability be?

Well, perhaps abuses could be dealt with if at least Veterinary was given a "ranged" ability that increases the Range with the higher Veterinary skill one has, maybe even having to be "real" skill rather then on items ?

The Tamer would still be visible and thus open to attack BUT, they could at least make good use of the skill on which they invested so many points on rather then what it is now where hardly any Tamer uses it....

And if the abuses which you are thinking of where to be from AFK scripters, I think that a better fix would be one that actually "found" the use of a script rather then make the gameplay more miserable to regular players....

I mean, just imagine.... if scripts where to be detectable, THEN it would be possible to have Veterinary be done as hidden and possibly even set it up with higher Veterinary, perhaps even "real" skill invested into it, leave the Tamer as hidden even when hit by Area spells....

As you yourself mention, "It would be nice to be able to stay by the pet during area spells " this is something which would be greatly enjoyed and appreciated by Tamers who, in the end, want to protect their pet and its well being.... yet, because it might get abused, many Tamers are deprived by such enjoyment and more fullfilling and entertaining gameplay....

Wouldn't it then be better to find other, good ways to curb down the possible resulting abuses BUT STILL give to Tamers such an ability to stay hidden by their pet while healing it with the Veterinary skill ? And the higher their Veterinary skill the more able they would be to stay hidden and heal their pet with it ?

jelinidas said:

For the love of god don't "fix" taming. Its not broken! And yes Popps, I do not run vet on many of my tamers, I use spellweaving in place of it. Having Vet increases stable slots as I recall so it has a use besides the obvious. 

I did not mention changing Taming at all.

I am talking about the Veterinary skill which is part of Animal Taming but, in a way, something so much separated from it (as of now), that most Tamers, yourself included from what I seem to understand from your post, do well without it on their Tamers' templates....

Frankly, I see it quite an offense to Veterinary which could instead be made a really cool skill to have with the right changes to it, for Animal Taming, to relegate it to something to have "occasionally" to only resurrect a pet or have more stable slots with...

And not even that, mind you !!

The resurrecting of a pet can be done also through NPCs and the Elixir or Rebirth Potion or the Gift of Life spell from Spellweaving, and Stable slots as we know, can be also purchased from the UO Store just doing without Veterinary at all even for that matter....

So, may I ask it then, what good does Veterinary do, for the 120.0 skill points that one can bring it up to (having thus to renounce to other skill points in the exchange, ovbiously), REALLY ?

Personally, I think that this skill should be made more important to have for Animal Tamers and the only way to get this done, is by changing the way that it works now and giving more benefits to Tamers who go all the way to invest 120.0 skill points on their Tamer template....

It is good, to my opinion, if Ultima Online was to give more weight to actual, real skill points and less on items.....

Over the years I think that Ultima Online has grown into a monster of itemization, giving way too much power onto items which forces content to always put in stronger items and stronger items to keep players' interest up....... perhaps it would be good, to my viewing, if some changes where to take some power away from items and put it back onto skills....

Making the right changes to the Veterinary skill could go towards that direction of making a skill, and the investing of points into it, more valuable and a thing good to have.

That is at least how I see it.

Vets fine.

Your overlooking advantages and essential making a complaint about the wrong mechanic.

Raw healing ability is unmatched from Vet.
Vet can be used while attacking and casting.
The skill points aren't as much of an insurmountable investment as you perceive it.  With vet you gain an incredible heal ability for follower, increased stable counts, ability to res pets rapidly, and attacking/casting time/mana that could have been otherwise spent in better ways.

Looks like you instead have issues dealing with the games aggression mechanics if you 'need vet to have range or use while hidden.

Vets fine and a great bargain, you small sample size doesn't use it because either they cant fathom its uses or just rely on others to have it.

@popps Where/how in God's name do you come up with all of your (in MY opinion) asanine comments and "ideas"????? They are good for a laugh though. I will give you that! Unless,of course, all of your "suggestions" are meant jokingly, and in jest. In which case, well played! ROFL

What @Petra_Fyde @jelinidas and @WornOutYourTool have all said.  All my Tamers have or will have after training 120 Vet.  

Oh here we go.

Dumb question time and now we wait for the NERF GUN

just shut up and lock this thread. Totally NOT needed

Okay as a LOOONG time tamer with Vet.  In a Word to your post NO! NO ! NO!    I have grumbled as much as anyone about area spell/attacks and having to back clear up to Britain to heal my pets.  I have learn to balance and adapt.  I have Mage AND Vet And Spellweaving.  My go to pet is my Pre-Patch Cu which has 120 healing!   The big reason I keep Vet . . .EXTRA STABLE SLOTS!   

About your town vet that rez for a so called "nominal"  HELLO!?!?!   The price is different depending on the pet.  My miner rezzed his beetle for 200 gp.  I had switched Vet for Fishing and ran into a UO type "Charlene Foxtrot" on the sea that killed me and my Cu.  *hangs head in shame*  So after using Help/Stuck, getting me rezzed; I then took Cu to Vet to rez.  10,000 gp to rez!?!?!    That can add up reeeeally fast!   

Popps in gaming - much like life- Evolve or DIE.  It's up to you.

Make a macro that casts g heal then vets the pet. 4 or 5 of those your pet goes from near dead to full health.

They should make the pet res potions work. They are like the stable. It says try again later. Have to craft them from Medusa blood.

I didn't read any of what the OP wrote. Too many words.

I read some now. I see Popps has never used the elixer or he would have complained about how it does not always work on the first few tries.

WornOutYourTool said:

Vets fine.

Your overlooking advantages and essential making a complaint about the wrong mechanic.

Raw healing ability is unmatched from Vet.
Vet can be used while attacking and casting.
The skill points aren't as much of an insurmountable investment as you perceive it.  With vet you gain an incredible heal ability for follower, increased stable counts, ability to res pets rapidly, and attacking/casting time/mana that could have been otherwise spent in better ways.

Looks like you instead have issues dealing with the games aggression mechanics if you 'need vet to have range or use while hidden.

Vets fine and a great bargain, you small sample size doesn't use it because either they cant fathom its uses or just rely on others to have it.

If Veterinary is "fine" as is it then, may I ask, why so many Tamers, to my perception the grandest majority, do not use it and, if they even trained it, have it on a Soulstone ?

Theory may be fine, but the raw reality is what in truth matters and that is, that in Ultima Online, as I seem to have noticed, "as Veterinary is and works now ", gets many UO Tamers to prefer to do without it, and go other ways instead....

Which it ends up, as a result, that Veterinary is NOT used much if at all, thus hinting that it needs some changes to make it appealing again and be used by Tamers, me thinks.....

The grandest majority of tamers on LS use vet. Only the ones with complex templates don't have it. My Archer/tamer does not have room for it.
Not sure what tamers you talk to.

Luc_of_Legends said:

Okay as a LOOONG time tamer with Vet.  In a Word to your post NO! NO ! NO!    I have grumbled as much as anyone about area spell/attacks and having to back clear up to Britain to heal my pets.  I have learn to balance and adapt.  I have Mage AND Vet And Spellweaving.  My go to pet is my Pre-Patch Cu which has 120 healing!   The big reason I keep Vet . . .EXTRA STABLE SLOTS!   

About your town vet that rez for a so called "nominal"  HELLO!?!?!   The price is different depending on the pet.  My miner rezzed his beetle for 200 gp.  I had switched Vet for Fishing and ran into a UO type "Charlene Foxtrot" on the sea that killed me and my Cu.  *hangs head in shame*  So after using Help/Stuck, getting me rezzed; I then took Cu to Vet to rez.  10,000 gp to rez!?!?!    That can add up reeeeally fast!   

Popps in gaming - much like life- Evolve or DIE.  It's up to you.

When a UO Tamer says " The big reason I keep Vet . . .EXTRA STABLE SLOTS!  " then, to my viewing, the skill has failed to deliver in its mechanics and for what it gives especially, considering that those extra slots can be purchased from the Ultima Online Store thus totally doing without Veterinary....

The point is not about "evolving or dieing", to my viewing, the points is about having game mechanics that players find appealing to use and to WANT to use.

If the Veterinary skill is NOT used much by Tamers, if at all it is (to me it is NOT used if a tamer only has it for extra stable slots not to have to purchase them from the UO Store....), then to my opinion this skill has FAILED to deliver to Tamers in the game....

The mechanics and abilities that a skill provide should be such that a player would WANT to use and have that skill....

Too many Tamers just go by without Veterinary using Magery, or Spellweaving or NPCs or Potions to res or other ways to compensate for the lack of having/using Veterinary and even forget that this skill exists....

When a Tamer can live by without touching a skill like Veterinary which should be much needed to keep one's own pet alive and good is, to my opinion, flat out wrong.

Whether players are then afraid that the Developers might consider doing something to it and thus, in the process, change the way that they currently play Taming in UO, is an entire other story which, as I see it, has nothing to do with the fact that the current mechanics and abilities that Veterinary provides are so useless or insufficient that Tamers in UO, for the most part, decide to do without it.

I am just noting a fact, saying it loud, and thus inviting the Developers to do something about it by changing the way that Veterinary works and the abilities it can provide to a Tamer so that ONCE AGAIN Tamers in Ultima Online would be willing to actually use and enjoy Veterinary and invest 120.0 points into it for their Tamer's Template.

popps said:

WornOutYourTool said:

Vets fine.

Your overlooking advantages and essential making a complaint about the wrong mechanic.

Raw healing ability is unmatched from Vet.
Vet can be used while attacking and casting.
The skill points aren't as much of an insurmountable investment as you perceive it.  With vet you gain an incredible heal ability for follower, increased stable counts, ability to res pets rapidly, and attacking/casting time/mana that could have been otherwise spent in better ways.

Looks like you instead have issues dealing with the games aggression mechanics if you 'need vet to have range or use while hidden.

Vets fine and a great bargain, you small sample size doesn't use it because either they cant fathom its uses or just rely on others to have it.

If Veterinary is "fine" as is it then, may I ask, why so many Tamers, to my perception the grandest majority, do not use it and, if they even trained it, have it on a Soulstone ?

Theory may be fine, but the raw reality is what in truth matters and that is, that in Ultima Online, as I seem to have noticed, "as Veterinary is and works now ",  seem to prefer to do without it and go other ways....

Which it ends up, as a result, that Veterinary is NOT used much if at all, thus hinting that it needs some changes to make it appealing again and be used by Tamers, me thinks.....

Simplest answer as to why "so many do not use it"?

Many can't think for themselves and copy paste min maxed templates from forums and guild mates.

Veterinary skill is fine, the problem is everyone want to cram as much fighting type skills on a char. So they can do maximum damage thus be able to SOLO EVERYTHING and get the GOOD DROPS.  So they dump Vet for Bushido or archery or some other skill.   This goes back to fact this game is a SANDBOX.  Like Burger King you can have it YOUR way!! LOL 

@popps why if you are supposedly an old school Tamer would you even ask this or better yet from somebody that has played UO as long as you say you have.  You should be telling people the pros and cons of every skill but then again that would entail us believing you that you have been here forever.

When a UO Tamer says " The big reason I keep Vet . . .EXTRA STABLE SLOTS!  " then, to my viewing, the skill has failed to deliver in its mechanics and for what it gives especially, considering that those extra slots can be purchased from the Ultima Online Store thus totally doing without Veterinary....

WRONG.   according to UO.COM :

Stable Slot Entitlement
Skill level	Basic Allocation	Stygian Abyss	Time of Legends
Non tamer	2	4	6
160 – 199.9 total skill	3	5	7
200 – 239 total skill	4	6	8
240+	5	7	9

• add one slot for each skill at 100 skill (ie 100 tame /100 lore /100 vet = 8, 10, 12 slots)
• add one slot for each skill at 110 skill (ie 110 tame /110 lore /110 vet = 11, 13, 15 slots)
• add one slot for each skill at 120 skill (ie 120 tame /120 lore /120 vet = 14, 16, 18 slots)
• The Animal Taming Mastery, ‘Boarding’, also adds stable slots for master tamers and above while the mastery is active up to a final total at 120 taming of 21.
• A stable slot increase token is available from Ultima Store at a cost of 500 sovereigns, this increases stable capacity by 3 slots. Up to 7 such tokens may be applied to any one character, taking the maximum possible total from all sources to 42. 

So without Vet you lose three slots.  Therefore your Maximum stable capacity is capped at 39!
So even if you buy 7 tokens at 3 slots each you STILL LOSE THREE SLOTS!  

Pawain said:

The grandest majority of tamers on LS use vet. Only the ones with complex templates don't have it. My Archer/tamer does not have room for it.
Not sure what tamers you talk to.

Well, we as players can only have a "perception" of what is going on in Ultima Online by looking around, talking to fellow players and all that.

Broadsword, instead, can actually "see" a wide range of statistics regarding what goes on in UO, I would imagine and, thus, also see how many Templates having Animal Taming on, ALSO have Veterinary on that template....

Mind you, NOT on a Soulstone in their bank or in a container or locked in their UO Home but on their actual Template, sitting by their Animal Taming and Animal Lore as only this would mean and show that it is actively used (Veterinary, that is), when playing that Tamer's Template....

If players who play a Tamer actually have Animal Taming, Animal Lore AND Veterinary on that Template, and not sitting on a Soulstone, THEN only this would indicate, to my viewing, that these Tamers actively use on a regular basis Veterinary for their Taming gameplay.

If @Bleak and @Kyronix were to kindly do this double checking, and kindly let us know, we could know for sure, as a fact, whether indeed, Veterinary is much unused by UO Tamers and thus in need of changes to its mechanics and of the abilities it provides, or whether my perception is wrong and thus there is not an issue with the Veterinary skill as it is and works....

Luc_of_Legends said:

Veterinary skill is fine, the problem is everyone want to cram as much fighting type skills on a char. So they can do maximum damage thus be able to SOLO EVERYTHING and get the GOOD DROPS.  So they dump Vet for Bushido or archery or some other skill.   This goes back to fact this game is a SANDBOX.  Like Burger King you can have it YOUR way!! LOL 

Which it shows that, as Veterinary is now, even though it is a skill meant for Tamers and supposed to aid and advantage Tamers in their hunting, IT DOES NOT DO IT.

Other skills bring more bang for the buck as compared to Veterinary for a Tamer....

And this, to my opinion, is dead wrong and should not be.

Sure, Ultima Online is a sandbox and players can mix up whatever they want YET, skills associated to a given type of template and gameplay should by all means provide the BEST bang for the buck for that type of gameplay....

This is something which in Ultima Online we have started to see with Masteries and, honestly, I hope to see MORE OF IT.

A Tamer should be, to my opinion, WAY MORE effective in their Taming Hunting when they use all 3 Taming skills (360 skill points invested) rather then using hybrid combinations of 1 and a half Taming skills and other stuff totally unrelated to it....

My argument is, that what is missing here is a BONUS to give to those Tamers willing to play all 3 Taming skills, full throttle 120.0 x 3 skill points invested, rather then stoning Veterinary on a Soulstone and using instead other skills in its place....

Petra_Fyde said:

There seems to be a significant difference of a opinion here. I think you are mistaken, popps, in your belief that the majority of tamers don't have vet.

I would suggest that you post a poll, something along the lines of:

What part does veterinary skill play in the tamer template that you play?

Always present

Sometimes soulstoned

Never present.

If Stratics staff have no objection you might also consider running the same poll there.


My opinion is that it's not broken and does not need fixing.

Well, rather then a Poll which might be biased, not all Tamers answering and thus end up with a wrong outcome, possibly, Broadsword I imagine has the tools to make an easy double check, as I indicated in my replay to Pawain....

If kindly @Kyronix or @Bleak were to please do this check, and see how many Templates having ON (not on a soulstone)  Animal Taming and Animal Lore DO HAVE also Veterinary on that Tamer's Template, as compared to the overall number of Templates having Animal Taming and Lore ON but NOT Veterinary (skills on Soulstones would not indicate a regular playing of that Template and, thus, should not count for this survey, for that matter), then we would know for sure if my perception is actually a fact and there does is an issue with Veterinary not being played by UO Tamers as it currently plays out in Ultima Online and what advantages it provides, or where I am wrong in my perception.

Unless this was too much work to check, I would say that it would be worth checking for the better enjoyment of the Ultima Online players' experience.

And this, especially considering how popular the Tamer Template is among UO players.... issues regarding Taming should, therefore, be closely watched and dealt with by Broadsword as they address the grandest majority of Ultima Online players, don't they ?

I hope that someone among the Developers might find the time to check and kindly let us know whether Tamers in Ultima Online ACTIVELY use Veterinary on their Template or not, and only have it on their Soulstone for the most part and use it sporadically, for resurrecting pets, Taming slots or else as the need arieses....

Luc_of_Legends said:

When a UO Tamer says " The big reason I keep Vet . . .EXTRA STABLE SLOTS!  " then, to my viewing, the skill has failed to deliver in its mechanics and for what it gives especially, considering that those extra slots can be purchased from the Ultima Online Store thus totally doing without Veterinary....

WRONG.   according to UO.COM :

Stable Slot Entitlement
Skill level	Basic Allocation	Stygian Abyss	Time of Legends
Non tamer	2	4	6
160 – 199.9 total skill	3	5	7
200 – 239 total skill	4	6	8
240+	5	7	9

• add one slot for each skill at 100 skill (ie 100 tame /100 lore /100 vet = 8, 10, 12 slots)
• add one slot for each skill at 110 skill (ie 110 tame /110 lore /110 vet = 11, 13, 15 slots)
• add one slot for each skill at 120 skill (ie 120 tame /120 lore /120 vet = 14, 16, 18 slots)
• The Animal Taming Mastery, ‘Boarding’, also adds stable slots for master tamers and above while the mastery is active up to a final total at 120 taming of 21.
• A stable slot increase token is available from Ultima Store at a cost of 500 sovereigns, this increases stable capacity by 3 slots. Up to 7 such tokens may be applied to any one character, taking the maximum possible total from all sources to 42. 

So without Vet you lose three slots.  Therefore your Maximum stable capacity is capped at 39!
So even if you buy 7 tokens at 3 slots each you STILL LOSE THREE SLOTS!  

Big deal when it involves having to squeeze 120.0 Veterinary skill points on a Template which could instead be used for some other skill providing a bigger advantage...

My point is, that the gameplay advantages which Veterinary currently gives when used on a Template, are NOT comparable to other skills.

Furthermore, the Stable slots advantages can be still enjoyed even without actively using Veterinary but only taking it off and on of a Soulstone as the Stables are accessed and most Tamers use instead for regular gameplay, skills OTHER then Veterinary because they provide a bigger advantage then Veterinary does, as it currently is and works.

To my viewing this is not right.

Veterinary mechanics and abilities that it provides, should be to my viewing such that Ultima Online Tamers would actually WANT to have this skill on their Template ALL THE TIME and use it, ACTIVELY, when out for Taming hunting and NOT take Veterinary on and off of a Soulstone when needing to resurrect a pet or to Stable another....

This thread is pointless.  Vet provides the ability to rez your pet, to heal your pet and to heal it regardless of poison or just damages (mage healing is a PITA because just as you cast heal it gets poisoned and you have to recast).  

A tamer using both vet and magery has the best ability to heal their pet quickly. 

Its working. Its fine. 

The same thing goes for the healing skill. Many fighters find other ways to heal - we don't need to change/remove the healing skill just because people have found other ways to heal.  It still works - its still a viable option.  People choose not to use it. 

Theo said:

This thread is pointless.  Vet provides the ability to rez your pet, to heal your pet and to heal it regardless of poison or just damages (mage healing is a PITA because just as you cast heal it gets poisoned and you have to recast).  

A tamer using both vet and magery has the best ability to heal their pet quickly. 

Its working. Its fine. 

The same thing goes for the healing skill. Many fighters find other ways to heal - we don't need to change/remove the healing skill just because people have found other ways to heal.  It still works - its still a viable option.  People choose not to use it. 

Too bad that, the "current" requirements for Veterinary to work are that the Tamer has to stand by the pet (at most 2 tiles) which, with many Monsters casting area spells which over time have been made more powerfull to take into account pets' increased hitpoints, strength and all that, likely result in the tamer being unable to stand right there to keep using the Veterinary skill to heal/cure the pet....

And infact, many Tamers apparently, at least to my perception, seem to prefer to do without it and use other ways to keep their pet healed, cured or resurrected.

As I said, to verify whether this is, or not is, an issue (i.e. whether Ultima Online Tamers do have Veterinary loaded as a skill on their Template along with Animal Taming and Animal Lore on a stable, regular, permanent basis), all it would require is for a Developer to check all currently existing Templates having Animal Taming and Animal Lore on them (not on a soulstone somewhere), and see whether, alongside with these 2 Taming skills there ALSO is the Veterinary skill loaded on that Template, which it would hint, to my viewing, to a regular, systematic, stable use of the Veterinary skill and compare this to how many Templates in Ultima Online have only Animal Taming and Animal Lore on them with Veterinary NOT being on that same one Template, loaded as a skill, but sitting on a Soulstone somewhere.

If a too low percentage of Templates currently existing in Ultima Online and having the Animal Taming and Animal Lore skills loaded on them (not on Soulstones) were to be found having ALSO Veterinary loaded on that Template at the same, concurrant time, well, this would show, at least to me, that there indeed are therefore issues with Veterinary as it is, works and plays out.... issues bigger, as lower the percentage of UO Tamers NOT using this skill actively and on a permanent basis, will be found to exist.

If too few Tamers use the Veterinary skill on a regular basis and thus have it stable present on their Tamer alongside with Animal Taming and Animal Lore well, then how cannot we conclude that there indeed are issues with Veterinary as it is, plays out and works ?

If UO tamers are reluctant and do not want to use it regularly, then perhaps, "just perhaps", there do might be serious issues with it, the way it works and what minimal and few benefits it might give for the investment of 120.0 skill points it involves ?

Let's only hope that, someone among the Developers will be able to find some time to double check this and let us know....

I think that, considering how popular the Taming gameplay is among UO players, it would be worth to find out whether or not the Veterinary skill as it is, has or not serious issues as my perception is.

popps said:

If kindly @ Kyronix or @ Bleak were to please do this check, and see how many Templates having ON (not on a soulstone)  Animal Taming and Animal Lore DO HAVE also Veterinary on that Tamer's Template, as compared to the overall number of Templates having Animal Taming and Lore ON but NOT Veterinary..

What makes you think information of this depth of complexity is easily pulled from somewhere? or even is available at all?
I strongly doubt that the devs have an exact number for characters that have a taming template, why would they?  Why would they spend time away from their scheduled tasks to look into it even if they did? It's a non issue and they're busy.

So you want vet to work from many tiles away.

As usual you want to change UO because you find something difficult or inconvenient.  You don't know the res potions don't always work and you don't know that vet at 120 gives you a stable slot.
 But you want to the devs to change how vet works so you can stand 4 tiles away or be hidden while vetting your pet...

Pawain said:

So you want vet to work from many tiles away.

As usual you want to change UO because you find something difficult or inconvenient.  You don't know the res potions don't always work and you don't know that vet at 120 gives you a stable slot.
 But you want to the devs to change how vet works so you can stand 4 tiles away or be hidden while vetting your pet...

Ha ha. Exactly.   Every Popps post is about how this game is too hard.   It never occurred to him that these monsters were given area effect so it wasn't so stupid easy for a tamer to just stand next to their pet with a paperweight on their keyboard and eat cheetoes while their pet killed something with no risk.  There is a REASON high end monsters have area effects.   Lets not undo it.  

You also have to stand near someone to use healing on them. Where is the nerf cry for that?

Petra_Fyde said:

popps said:

If kindly @ Kyronix or @ Bleak were to please do this check, and see how many Templates having ON (not on a soulstone)  Animal Taming and Animal Lore DO HAVE also Veterinary on that Tamer's Template, as compared to the overall number of Templates having Animal Taming and Lore ON but NOT Veterinary..

What makes you think information of this depth of complexity is easily pulled from somewhere? or even is available at all?
I strongly doubt that the devs have an exact number for characters that have a taming template, why would they?  Why would they spend time away from their scheduled tasks to look into it even if they did? It's a non issue and they're busy.

Well, from past Posts from Developers I assume that they have a number of Statistics always at hand, which they use to monitor the status of the game and check whether something is or not working well and as intended...

For example, last Year when Treasure Hunting revamp was in the works, I seem to recall that a Developer mentioned that players were sitting on a large number of Treasure Maps stocked up...

So, I am assuming, that one of the abilities that the Devs might have at hand is to be able to check how many templates have on them what skills, how many accounts normally log into UO and so forth...

Basically, I imagine, that a Dev perhaps could be able to use such a tool by putting in a key word search for the skill "Animal Taming" on Templates and whether that same Template also has Veterinary or not.

The outcome from this search might, perhaps, come out with, say, only 10% or the Templates having Animal Taming and Animal Lore as "also" having Veterinary....

Which it would show to us, that out of 10 Tamers in UO only 1 was to use Veterinary on a regular basis for their Taming gameplay and consequentially showing to us that there indeed might be issues with Veterinary as it is if 9 Tamers out of 10 in Ultima Online choose not to use this skill on their Template...

Something of this likes....

With all the bugs and things wrong with the game Popps, is this really what you want the Dev team working on?? There is nothing broken here! To be honest, I didn't read half of what you said because you are way to long winded with dribble as usual. Make your point and hit post comment! 


Now if the Devs want to look at anything taming...Bonded Pets should NEVER go wild. If loyalty is that low, they should just stand there and not listen, not move and not fight until fed. Now that is a taming topic I could get behind.  (See Popps, one paragraph to make my point)

Theo said:

Pawain said:

So you want vet to work from many tiles away.

As usual you want to change UO because you find something difficult or inconvenient.  You don't know the res potions don't always work and you don't know that vet at 120 gives you a stable slot.
 But you want to the devs to change how vet works so you can stand 4 tiles away or be hidden while vetting your pet...

Ha ha. Exactly.   Every Popps post is about how this game is too hard.   It never occurred to him that these monsters were given area effect so it wasn't so stupid easy for a tamer to just stand next to their pet with a paperweight on their keyboard and eat cheetoes while their pet killed something with no risk.  There is a REASON high end monsters have area effects.   Lets not undo it.  

You also have to stand near someone to use healing on them. Where is the nerf cry for that?

I beg your Pardon but, if everything is fine and dandy with Veterinary as it is, then, how come that, at least as I can tell from watching other Tamers, a rather large number of them do NOT have Veterinary on their Tamer's Template on a regular basis but use other ways to heal, cure or resurrect their pet ?

THIS is my argument...... I start from seeing something, that is, that Tamers seem to me, for the largest part, to NOT want to invest skill points in Veterinary on their Template and use other ways, instead, to get what Veterinary is supposed to provide (heal, cure, resurrecting) and by that noting, I am forced to conclude that then, one would imagine, there does might be issues with Veterinary as it is and works, if many Tamers in UO have chosen to do without it on their tamer.....

Which it then leads to the following step which it is, that therefore the Veterinary skill needs to be changed and bettered in order for players to then actually want to use it and have it on their Template on a regular, stable and persistent case alongside with the Animal Taming and Animal Lore skills rather then having the Veterinary skill stay put on a Soulstone and be only occationally loaded on the template when a pet needs to be resurrected or the Stables be accessed to swap a pet ?

@popps Do you even play a tamer???

jelinidas said:

With all the bugs and things wrong with the game Popps, is this really what you want the Dev team working on?? There is nothing broken here! To be honest, I didn't read half of what you said because you are way to long winded with dribble as usual. Make your point and hit post comment! 


Now if the Devs want to look at anything taming...Bonded Pets should NEVER go wild. If loyalty is that low, they should just stand there and not listen, not move and not fight until fed. Now that is a taming topic I could get behind.  (See Popps, one paragraph to make my point)

You want a 1 Paragraph point to be made ?

No problem.

Issue.

Considering how few Tamers apparently have on their Template the Veterinary skill and actively use it on a regular basis, there look to be issues with this skill if many Tamers in UO choose not to use it on a regular basis for their Hunts, can the Devs please look into it and make it more appealing so that UO Tamers will then want to use it ? Thanks.

Done.

popps said:

Issue.

Considering how few Tamers apparently have on their Template the Veterinary skill and actively use it on a regular basis, there look to be issues with this skill if many Tamers in UO choose not to use it on a regular basis for their Hunts, can the Devs please look into it and make it more appealing so that UO Tamers will then want to use it ? Thanks.

Couldn't you make this argument for any skill?  I run archers with no Bushido, am I playing them wrong?? Some of my mages have no Meditation! Is it broken?!? I have a swordsman with no parry, Holy crap, parry must be off!  Vet is NOT broken! It is what it is. Use it or not, its your game.

My necro tamer has magery, but no eval. So I don't use magery for offense. Broken or my playstyle? 

Move on...

jelinidas said:

popps said:

Issue.

Considering how few Tamers apparently have on their Template the Veterinary skill and actively use it on a regular basis, there look to be issues with this skill if many Tamers in UO choose not to use it on a regular basis for their Hunts, can the Devs please look into it and make it more appealing so that UO Tamers will then want to use it ? Thanks.

Couldn't you make this argument for any skill?  I run archers with no Bushido, am I playing them wrong?? Some of my mages have no Meditation! Is it broken?!? I have a swordsman with no parry, Holy crap, parry must be off!  Vet is NOT broken! It is what it is. Use it or not, its your game.

My necro tamer has magery, but no eval. So I don't use magery for offense. Broken or my playstyle? 

Move on...

How's that saying ? "A walnut alone in a bag, makes no noise......"

My point being, that with Tamers in UO what is disturbing is, apparently, to my perception, the relevant number of Tamers in Ultima Online who have chosen, for one reason or another, to do without using the Veterinary skill on their Template on a regular basis and, for the most part, have it on a Soulstone and only pick it up occasionally and rarely to res a pet or to swap pets in and out of Stables....

If many Tamers do not want to invest skill points in Veterinary on their Template, not just a few among them, this should lead one to think that, consequentially, there likely are issues with Veterinary as a skill the way it works now and what it gives for its investment of 120.0 skill points to have on a Template all the time, on a regular basis....

That is the noise that I can hear, when I see so many Tamers not using the Veterinary skill on a regular basis during their Taming Hunts....

Having "something else" in place of the Veterinary skill because it "works better" is what looks dead wrong to me here, and should not be, if this was the case....

Veterinary is part of the Taming skill set and it should be having the Veterinary skill on a Template that should provide the "most bang for the buck"to a Tamer in Ultima Online, not having on a Taming Template something else that is not related to Taming....

Do not get me wrong, players can indeed make their Template as hybrids as they may want, I am just saying that skills intended for a skill set should be given for that purpose the MOST advantage and bonus as compared to any other alternative.

That is at least how I see it.

Popps , have you asked every tamer on every shard if they use vet, If the answer is no then you do not know how many do or don't.
  you want to vet from further distance , does that mean you throw the bandages at the pet and hope they land on the right spot. 
 I have always used vet on my pets.  I stand next to them and bandage them.  sometimes with area  affect i still stand there and heal pet with vet while casting heal on myself. If sometimes the area affect is faster than my healing I will back off and heal it with magery.
So for you to say tamers do not use vet is wrong.

When you do not a have complimentary skill you lose what that skill does.  If you do not have Vet you can not heal your pet with bandages. You can not res your pet. You lose a stable slot.

@jelinidas explained it to you.  My Tamer/Archer does not Vet or Anatomy.  Therefore I lose the benefits of those.  

Some magic users choose not to have Meditation.  They do not regen mana very fast.
Some mages do not have eval.

The skills are there for us to use as needed.  We do not have to be cookie cutters.  We get to decide what we want to use and have to deal with the consequences.

There are no right or wrong skills to choose sometimes.

The less the Devs decide what skills we need the better.

Bards have to have 4 skills at 120 real skill to reap the rewards. That needs changed.  We should just need Music and Discord to run the Discord Masteries.

And as stated, the devs should be working on new pet types and making Bonded pets not go wild. Not wondering why players are not using Vet.

IMHO The question has been asked by a supposed Tamer and has been answered by many REAL Tamers so this thread can now be locked as asked and answered.

I can't talk Kyronix into giving a mount a much deserved follower rating, which would take all of 10 seconds to do code wize, but you want him to log in and do a search for all tamers and see who's got 120 Vet ? Did you seriously just ask and expect that to happen ?

I have and use 120 vet and also like 
@Garth_Grey want grizzled mare to go 5 slot 
@Kyronix @Bleak please 

jelinidas said:

popps said:

Issue.

Considering how few Tamers apparently have on their Template the Veterinary skill and actively use it on a regular basis, there look to be issues with this skill if many Tamers in UO choose not to use it on a regular basis for their Hunts, can the Devs please look into it and make it more appealing so that UO Tamers will then want to use it ? Thanks.

Couldn't you make this argument for any skill?  I run archers with no Bushido, am I playing them wrong?? Some of my mages have no Meditation! Is it broken?!? I have a swordsman with no parry, Holy crap, parry must be off!  Vet is NOT broken! It is what it is. Use it or not, its your game.

My necro tamer has magery, but no eval. So I don't use magery for offense. Broken or my playstyle? 

Move on...

Amen brotha'.   

OI VEY !!!! 
Popps get a hobby and leave the skills balance to the pro's.
To the rest of you who think his idea is worth salt just remember how long you have sat at the bank/stable looking for a Rez cause the timer for the stable vet to do it is still running... when one of the full tamers comes alone and tosses a aid on the pet and walks off with a nod to you as your pet is back to normal life.  Yes is has a use and I do stand under my GD and toss aids on him and yes I do die  but that is the game.  You take risks. Yes I have used magic and aids together.
A player calls out for a rez for his pet I do make it a point to go se if I can be of assistance. I have done this from the very beginning of starting taming.. I guess you need to be a real tamer to understand this. 
I have done this for nearly 23 years in UO  

I'm starting to think popps is troll supreme and has some vegas style betting going on with other trolls to see how long he can ramble on in a post and people still read it and respond. I think I just made popps $5 - you welcome popps!

Pawain said:

When you do not a have complimentary skill you lose what that skill does.  If you do not have Vet you can not heal your pet with bandages. You can not res your pet. You lose a stable slot.

If there was no other way to heal pets in the game, or to resurrect pets, or to get extra stable slots then I could agree that players not using the Veterinary skill would be making this choice at their loss since they would not be able to heal or cure pets, nor be able to resurrect a pet nor be able to have extra slots.

But as it is that a Tamer can well do without the Veterinary skill (and not have to host on their template those 120.0 points which can be used in something else, more beneficial, since they CAN have alternatives to get what Veterinary gives in other ways ?) ?

Then no, I see this as a problem with the problem being that the skill Veterinary, over time, since alternatives have been given to it to Tamers, has lost its appeal and usefullness to Tamers so much, that many Tamers do not actively use it and leave it on a Soulstone for the most part, only picking it up occasionally, whether to resurrect a pet or to swap pets in and out of their Stables...

And as stated, the devs should be working on new pet types and making Bonded pets not go wild. Not wondering why players are not using Vet.

Absolutely, and I never said otherwise. There surely are important things to address in regards to Taming as those you are pointing out, nonetheless, I think, the issue of Tamers in Ultima Online not actively using Veterinary on their Template to seems looks an important one which should likewise be addressed.

And I said it, it is my perception from looking at Tamers around on various prodo Shards, included Atlantic that has many of them.

I am not saying that I am stating an absolute fact, only indicating that I have such a perception that Tamers, for the most part, are not using Veterinary as a skill, actively and on a regular basis, on their Template and indicating that, should this be a fact, this would indicate an issue with this skill that would hint that it is being neglected because players feel it is not as usefull to them as other skills might be on their Tamers Template.

In such a case, which I imagine the Developers might have the tools to verify by actually looking at active and playing Taming characters in Ultima Online (I imagine that the Developers can see which accounts regularly log in and play a Tamer and whether that Tamer template only has Animal Taming/Lore on it or also Veterinary on the Template, not sitting on a Soulstone somewhere...), if my perception was to be found as a fast, and seen that too few Tamers actually actively and regularly play with the Veterinary skill on their Template, well, then what else could this hint to if not that Veterinary is "not delivering" to Tamers in terms of what it does and has to offer to them ?

And if so, shouldn't this then mean that this skill would need to be changed and be "buffed up" in order to make it more appealing to Tamers so that they would actually want to use it in their Template rather then instead using "something else" to get what Veterinary was supposed to give to them ?

At least, that is the way I see it.

Popps, I now just look at the length of your post and decide not even to bother to read. The bad thing is, someday you are going to come up with a really good idea or problem and nobody will be there to help you. Less dribble, one or two paragraphs. You are your own worst enemy. 

No one is compelled to read or respond to any given post. 

Popps,
 just play the game your way and keep your nose out of others. It does NOT affect you in anyway if tamers don't have 120 vet. And with the current situation you may influence this Dev team and have them  nerf the crap out of taming and screw up everyone else. So do us all a favour, well two actually, don't write war and peace for every subject and STOP interfering with other people gameplay

I have 4 tamers all with 85 vet skill, and I don't want this cocked up because you don't like it

Cu's and Tritons are pretty good at healing themselves. Maybe YOU need to modernise your gameplay. But like I said above, its NONE of your business what others do. its legal, well within the rules. so keep the snout out before the nerf gun comes out.  100% down to YOU if it does.  Move on, close thread. nothing more to discuss here

JackFlashUk said:

Popps,
 just play the game your way and keep your nose out of others. It does NOT affect you in anyway if tamers don't have 120 vet. And with the current situation you may influence this Dev team and have them  nerf the crap out of taming and screw up everyone else. So do us all a favour, well two actually, don't write war and peace for every subject and STOP interfering with other people gameplay

Honestly, I do not see in what way it would make your Taming gameplay less enjoyable if the Developers were to make the Veterinary skill more appealing and usefull so that more Tamers were to want to use it...

I am not suggesting for the Developers to "force" Tamers to add the Veterinary skill to a Tamer's Template in order to be able to control a pet or anything of that likes, I am suggesting to make changes to the Veterinary skill so that Tamers would actually want to add that skill to their Template more then what it happens now.

Frankly, I do not see how this would affect any Tamer who do not want to pick up Veterinary on their Template.... sure, they would miss on whatever abilities and bonuses a revamped Veterinary skill would bring to them but its their choice, if they were to still want to play their Tamer without Veterinary on their Template that would be their choice...

And in regards to whomever thought "weird" to see a "ranged" healing/cure to Veterinary as the idea of throwing bandages at the pet from a distance might look ackward, well, this is a Fantasy game were everything is a tad strange if we want to get picky at that...

Perhaps it could be justified with a "bond" that the Tamer having Veterinary skill is enabled to build with the pet thus enabling the Tamer to heal and cure the pet from a distance using the Veterinary skill ?

And the higher the Veterinary skill, the higher the range that healing and cure could be applied to a pet through the Veterinary skill....

It is just an idea among many that could be proposed to make the Veterinary skill more usefull and more wanted to be had on their Template by Tamers....

All I am saying, is that I think that the Veterinary skill needs some love to prompt more Tamers to be more willing to add it on their Template and use it on a regular basis....

@popps I ask AGAIN! Do you even play a tamer????????????????????????

Rorschach said:

No one is compelled to read or respond to any given post. 

I was actually trying to help him by telling him to be "less wordy". But thank you for those fine words of wisdom...

Rorschach said:

No one is compelled to read or respond to any given post. 

And risk the chance that the DEVs would think the Tamer player base thinks this is a good idea because we kept or mouths shut, in a nut shell NO WAY TYVM