Please stop the BT loophole.

hmmm

Where you see cheap epaulete carbs?

Seriously.

Pawain said:

Where you see cheap epaulete carbs?

Seriously.

Sorry your vendor business has slowed due to this but on Cats we are all working together and running Blackthorn's to give the casual or weaker players a chance to get these items that are either unaffordable or literally unattainable for these players.

A lot of players have just fought captains for the first time in Shrine Battles.

Maybe players are taking that to Blackthorns.  They put anti afk coding in a long time ago.  
If these are just appearing they are from players doing what Lord Bytor said.

The items in that search are ugly anyway.  Like I said where are the Luck Epaulets for 18M?

You noticed the price drop and bought a bunch and now you want to sell them for more so you are asking the developers to "fix" your issue?   😂

Blackthorns is alive after years of being empty.  Those captains are still deadly and people are fighting the content.  I have never seen anyone,  nor could I imaging, anyone scripting in Bkackthorn’s Captain pods.  The chance to earn items that are useful for ones character development is a great step in the right direction.  I would go the other direction and say, “Bravo!” to the devs for making once dead content relevant and fun again.  I have been there every night this week and hope to continue until the end of the event.  Every item I earn goes on a character that has been in dire need of equipment upgrades for robes, aprons and sashes.  My hope is that this becomes a permanent drop rate.  It still takes a fair amount of time (and deaths) to walk away with 100 minax arties.  

Lord_Bytor said:

Sorry your vendor business has slowed due to this but on Cats we are all working together and running Blackthorn's to give the casual or weaker players a chance to get these items that are either unaffordable or literally unattainable for these players.

Pawain said:

A lot of players have just fought captains for the first time in Shrine Battles.

Maybe players are taking that to Blackthorns.  They put anti afk coding in a long time ago.  
If these are just appearing they are from players doing what Lord Bytor said.

The items in that search are ugly anyway.  Like I said where are the Luck Epaulets for 18M?

You noticed the price drop and bought a bunch and now you want to sell them for more so you are asking the developers to "fix" your issue?   😂

What do you mean, exactly, by the captains not having any spawn around them?  On Europa, at least, the captains are exactly as normal, yellow until you defeat the surrounding spawn.  I gave up on the idea of building my submitted minax artifact total from 70 to my desired 100 because I couldn't get near the spawn because of 3 yellow captains at the entrance. I just looked, exactly the same city is still active, so no one else on Europa has done it either.

Isn't there some new player package that gives 100 points for blackthorn? 

Its more believable the market is flooded with store items for gold than farmed. 

Urge said:

Isn't there some new player package that gives 100 points for blackthorn? 

Its more believable the market is flooded with store items for gold than farmed. 

Yes The EJ pack.  And those were half price during December. So using that logic the 100 BT points value was cut in half so the BT items should also cut in half until they cycle out of the market.
Epaulettes with luck are 20M and up.  10 bucks divided between all the things you got from the EJ pack makes 20M and lower a logical price.

Petra_Fyde said:

What do you mean, exactly, by the captains not having any spawn around them?  On Europa, at least, the captains are exactly as normal, yellow until you defeat the surrounding spawn.  I gave up on the idea of building my submitted minax artifact total from 70 to my desired 100 because I couldn't get near the spawn because of 3 yellow captains at the entrance. I just looked, exactly the same city is still active, so no one else on Europa has done it either.

Yes, I worked it out thanks, I was on the wrong facet. I have previously done all my blackthorn dungeon hunting in Fel, where it wasn't camped.
Fel captains are still yellow with surrounding spawn.

It's not about the spawn, it's about the drop rate. It used to be 2 minax artifacts per captain. 

I had not done this spawn in years since I could only get a drop if the sampire that was tanking would be kind enough to give me one of his for healing him. Otherwise I only got the single drop from the lighthouse after helping kill all the spawn and the captains.

Did one captain by myself early this morning and only got one drop? No one else was there. Not complaining at all, but if you solo it maybe you only get one?

Later on I went back and there was a handful of people and sometimes I got one drop, sometimes two or three.

There are still many deaths involved indeed! But now it is not impossible, just good ole exciting fun and challenging!

This is a great change and I hope it stays for awhile!

Feels great to earn your prize instead of having to buy it!

Yes many players have only tried Captains and died instantly over and over.  Now they know they can take some friends and have some fun.

Removed. Thought better of posting.

Great news! Now that the items are worthless maybe we can turn back on the minor spawn for us people that can't afford artifacts nor kill captains? 

Soloed a few Captains earlier with my Macer/Paladin (Dragoon), and only got 1 Minax Artifact per Captain. Used to be a guaranteed 2.

I did 5 captains and got 6 drops with my paladin archer, so there is a slight element of randomness to it - but with no need to clear spawn to turn them red, surely while drops per captain might be less, the ratio of drops:time taken will be roughly the same?

the issue has little to do with the spawn.

before a captain held 1-3 artifacts.  total.
now you get 1-3 for each character attacking.

so before someone botting 10 accounts would still get max 3 items per captain.
now that same captain produces up to 30 items from that same single kill.

play 100 characters, up to 300 items per kill.

so none of the bot farmers bothered using many account to farm before the change.  price was already driven to basically nothing by afking the lesser spawn. 

the price is down simply because the number of items produced by captains was increased massively.  basically, the captains werent worth bot farming before.  now they are.

And now the BOTS won't bother so much if we, as regular players playing one account at a time, can earn our own drops and not have to buy from them.

Sounds good!  

Maybe just maybe it's not all bots. 

Maybe just maybe it's actual players, people who have never done blackthorns captains prior getting groups together and going down there nightly to get items. 

Maybe the prices will drop to the point it's not to the botters benefit to even bother. 

 As the price tanks, it just means it's more accessible to more people and people can actually earn their own now as opposed to buying them.  The artifacts, when grouped, did not distribute evenly among group members before and not many specs/people could solo them.

Maybe this was an intentional change by the devs and working as intended.

Grouping being encouraged instead of discouraged.  You cannot continue to punish average players because of bots.

People get upset when their income streams are disrupted, I say any change that helps level the playing field between players is a good change.

I like to see resellers suffer because players are getting their own items. 

Pawain said:

I like to see resellers suffer because players are getting their own items. 

Blackthorn’s has become my guild’s favorite place to hunt for the last few weeks.  We fight together, we join forces with others from the shard, and we have fun!  This has been one of the best changes to the game in a while. Trust me, the Captains are still deadly.  We routine have to resurrect folks.

Pawain said:

I like to see resellers suffer because players are getting their own items. 

I am ALL in favour of prices dropping down, and a whole lot too....

And why do I think so ?

Because this helps out New and Returning players who can then AFFORD to purchase the items that they need to be competitive....

The more the Developers' changes to Ultima Online bring prices of items down, THE BETTER to my opinion.

Are there really bots that do captains? I know they did the lower spawn, till there were measures put in place to stop them, that's why I used to hunt in Fel. But I've never seen any at the captains. Are they real, or are the a figment of the imagination of conspiracy theorists?

I have seen people multiclient down there. Once I figure out which ones are doing that their health bars and pets get dropped from me. That way I can concentrate on healing single players.

Have also seen people sic their pet on a captain and hide then go get a sandwich or something and expect people to heal the pet.

They get figured out quick but it really burns me when people do these things.

Petra_Fyde said:

Are there really bots that do captains? I know they did the lower spawn, till there were measures put in place to stop them, that's why I used to hunt in Fel. But I've never seen any at the captains. Are they real, or are the a figment of the imagination of conspiracy theorists?

Didn't the team just add a new housing rule to combat scripting? Or that also imagination of conpiracy theorists? 

@Kyronix housing fix for multiples placement have been broken since january first big revert...you can have more than one house in decay mod and use them

Yesterday, i got about 60 Minax Artifacts on my Macer/Paladin while hunting with 3-4 other people (downed 2 Lighthouses worth of Captains). They all got Artifacts too. Haven't seen Blackthorn's Captains this busy in a long time.

this is my issue now. came back. shard barely active. need to solo to do end game but need yo do end game to get my powerscrolls etc.

making the game to being more solo friendly would help.

MissE said:

Well I have never see a 'bot' farmer doing captains.   I am liking the new changes and as for the title of this thread 'loophole'  is a bit much. 

It is no loophole when any player on any shard may part take in killing the stuff in the dungeon.   Just because some people think it is affecting their 'money'  take doesn't make it a loophole. It is still a hard fight to solo, sure some captains are easier than others but I wouldn't say any are a toddle.

Just the normal GREED coming out by those who are complaining imo.

jadav said:

I don't think you actually know what a loophole is.

The captains in BT dungeon was never meant to give out more than 1-3 arties pr kill.

Then there came an event, and our DEVs weren't clever enough to make 2 types on captains, so the captains you find at shrine battles, are the same as those in BT dungeon.

So they are not functioning as intended.

Actually, do you know for a fact that this wasn't an intended change?  Do you have something from a Dev stating that this wasn't intended?

Because I am pretty sure I know of someone who did ask them back when this was on Baja/Origin/Izumo before WW release and got a response that it was an intended change.

There is no loophole. You've been buying up Blackthorns artifacts and now want Devs to change it back so you can make bank.  The motivation here seems pretty transparent.

Petra_Fyde said:

Are there really bots that do captains? I know they did the lower spawn, till there were measures put in place to stop them, that's why I used to hunt in Fel. But I've never seen any at the captains. Are they real, or are the a figment of the imagination of conspiracy theorists?

Thanks for the info.  We ran it tonight.  I took 2 toons we did 3 towns. Maybe 4 I lost count.  I turned in 186 items and made a Bone and 2 Plate suits.  Ill buy an epaulet for my other Archer.  Looks like I will get more suits of armor for mannequins.
  
Was lots of fun everybody stayed up way too late and was talking about what to say to their spouses.

Can you believe some player paid 14M for the items!   😂 

Polaris said:

We have always hunted Blackthorns. Was very fun and challenging, the mobs need to be turned back on, whatever happens. But yes, I too have bought about 3 of the 150 luck / 5 DCI epaulets for under 14m now. Now most of my characters and even nephew has those. The market is already ruined for those guys, as well as crimson cinctures and the belts. Might as well give up, the Japanese figured this out before anyone. We knew from those forums, but haven't even bothered to go. We did buy ourselves 4 crimson cinctures and 4 epaulets for us however. All were under 15m each.

We will likely never farm Blackthorn dungeon again now, as the items have been devalued and also we have most of what we need. OP was correct, sadly. Blackthorn's was a legit way for casual players to make gold too, so this mistake wasn't good. Time for us to start doing DOOM finally I guess, I have not even been there since the changes. And all my chars need a Halo (or whatever it is called.)

Back then, the hunt was more for the challenge of it, than the reward, since most members only got a small handful of Artifacts. I don't think a single member ever acquired enough Minax Artifacts from all of those hunts to get a decent prize. It was far more rewarding to solo or duo the place before. This Wednesday though, just about everyone who attended got at least 50 points. It's a lot more group friendly now.

Pawain said:

Thanks for the info.  We ran it tonight.  I took 2 toons we did 3 towns. Maybe 4 I lost count.  I turned in 186 items and made a Bone and 2 Plate suits.  Ill buy an epaulet for my other Archer.  Looks like I will get more suits of armor for mannequins.
  
Was lots of fun everybody stayed up way too late and was talking about what to say to their spouses.

Can you believe some player paid 14M for the items!   😂 

Yup I think most of our group had never been to that area and had never bought an item.  

Id say 6 got 50 + items.  Some replaced old stat less robes and were very happy.  
The returners are going to love this.  I predict a Blackthorns Weekend on LS!

Polaris said:

Petra_Fyde said:

Are there really bots that do captains? I know they did the lower spawn, till there were measures put in place to stop them, that's why I used to hunt in Fel. But I've never seen any at the captains. Are they real, or are the a figment of the imagination of conspiracy theorists?

From what it sounds, I am pretty sure people doing this sort of this were using a real mage in conjunction with multi-boxing.

When we go there, it's quite simple to trap them with our 2 mages... and they are easily taken down after being trapped. We use 2 RCs and blast with their weakest resistance (harm, ebolt, or flamestrike.)

I could imagine easily... that someone could trap them with 1 mage and then have their multi-boxing gargoyle/archer army standing 10 tiles away just waiting to switch accounts and get off 60-70 archer shots before the energy field traps vanish. I have saw people using archers as such at EM events myself. Each archer has a different slayer. I have also saw people using those at IDOCs in felucca. The multi-boxing was real, definitely. A few of the IDOCers would hire one of those guys in particular, and he would literally take 5 archers and kill anyone who came close while the other guys looted. That was a famous YT video of a few well known players that someone posted complaining. No idea if the video still exists, but.... multi-boxing was definitely real.

With that said, I think none of this is likely taking place. It is likely just people using 10 accounts... and doing x% of damage with each character. Each character gets 1-3 items as stated by someone. I am not sure how different this is from before, other than there are no mobs.... so it may be easier? It was limited to 2 items before I know. So not sure what is taking place down there, my wife tried to show me the forums, but they were in Japanese. Just sounds like it was a lot easier though, and 0 time loss due to mobs... and possibly more items. Something definitely happened, because I have scooped up the epaulets and crimson belts from VS, as I stated above....

Wow you sure do see a lot of stuff that others have never seen, you're quite the player.

@Polaris ; First.  Blackthorns was not put into the game for making gold.  It was put into the game as an alternative to get the items. All players could kill something there.

Glad I could teach you something.

 😂  Violet was called a Troll.

I like the change.  Don't know how long it will last or if it will even go back since the dev's said the the shrine battles will be semi permanent and BT is supposed to last as long as the shrine battles.
If you haven't done so already i would suggest doing so if you need gear for new toons. 

I did take advantage of it and got some gear for future characters i want to make for other shards.  It's still a challenge in fact deadly if you're not careful so in no way are people botting it. 

Pawain said:

@ Polaris  First.  Blackthorns was not put into the game for making gold.  It was put into the game as an alternative to get the items. All players could kill something there.

Glad I could teach you something.

 😂  Violet was called a Troll.

Polaris said:

Pawain said:

@ Polaris  First.  Blackthorns was not put into the game for making gold.  It was put into the game as an alternative to get the items. All players could kill something there.

Glad I could teach you something.

 😂  Violet was called a Troll.

You trolled me because I agreed with someone that the epaulets were indeed for sell for 14m. I have saw mace/shield helmets for 6-7m. Everything in the game is for sell, I am a rares collector. I go get items that players want like cameos and then make 140-300m. Then I buy rare items.... Currently we are getting tabards, we have our full set... I have my blue one with hawkwind stats for me, and 2 of the red ones for one of my museums. We have sold about 5 or 6 now that we have all the ones we wanted. With that profit from 1.... I chose to buy almost 4 epaulets and 4 mace/shield helmets.

I also bought them ALL from Japanese vendors, because those guys deserve it the most. Japanese players never even heard of someone trolling someone.... it's kind of sad. Were I to want gold, I would no longer go to Blackthorn dungeon is what I am saying..... we can just as easy run Shadowguard with 2 players quite easily... in about an hour and a half per run. Far more profitable for my rares collecting habits. Blackthorn dungeon just became a dungeon we will never run again because of this Loophole the OP mentioned.

I did not know the prices were dropping. Sorry. They were expensive less than 2 months ago.

The EJ pack was half price. The Captains drop 1 or 3 items now and no other spawn. I was late to the party. Now I will enjoy it while it lasts.

Blackthorns Dungeon will now be a place where groups play and get a reward. No RNG involved.
New players, returning players,EJ players that cant use their bank have had a fun and rewarding experience.

Explain why this is a bad thing?

Because the value of the rewards dropped?  

Pawain said:

Polaris said:

Pawain said:

@ Polaris  First.  Blackthorns was not put into the game for making gold.  It was put into the game as an alternative to get the items. All players could kill something there.

Glad I could teach you something.

 😂  Violet was called a Troll.

You trolled me because I agreed with someone that the epaulets were indeed for sell for 14m. I have saw mace/shield helmets for 6-7m. Everything in the game is for sell, I am a rares collector. I go get items that players want like cameos and then make 140-300m. Then I buy rare items.... Currently we are getting tabards, we have our full set... I have my blue one with hawkwind stats for me, and 2 of the red ones for one of my museums. We have sold about 5 or 6 now that we have all the ones we wanted. With that profit from 1.... I chose to buy almost 4 epaulets and 4 mace/shield helmets.

I also bought them ALL from Japanese vendors, because those guys deserve it the most. Japanese players never even heard of someone trolling someone.... it's kind of sad. Were I to want gold, I would no longer go to Blackthorn dungeon is what I am saying..... we can just as easy run Shadowguard with 2 players quite easily... in about an hour and a half per run. Far more profitable for my rares collecting habits. Blackthorn dungeon just became a dungeon we will never run again because of this Loophole the OP mentioned.

I did not know the prices were dropping. Sorry. They were expensive less than 2 months ago.

The EJ pack was half price. The Captains drop 1 or 3 items now and no other spawn. I was late to the party. Now I will enjoy it while it lasts.

Blackthorns Dungeon will now be a place where groups play and get a reward. No RNG involved.
New players, returning players,EJ players that cant use their bank have had a fun and rewarding experience.

Explain why this is a bad thing?

Because the value of the rewards dropped?  

I have already explained why it is bad 5 times in this tread, any part you dont to understand ?

jadav said:

Pawain said:

Polaris said:

Pawain said:

@ Polaris  First.  Blackthorns was not put into the game for making gold.  It was put into the game as an alternative to get the items. All players could kill something there.

Glad I could teach you something.

 😂  Violet was called a Troll.

You trolled me because I agreed with someone that the epaulets were indeed for sell for 14m. I have saw mace/shield helmets for 6-7m. Everything in the game is for sell, I am a rares collector. I go get items that players want like cameos and then make 140-300m. Then I buy rare items.... Currently we are getting tabards, we have our full set... I have my blue one with hawkwind stats for me, and 2 of the red ones for one of my museums. We have sold about 5 or 6 now that we have all the ones we wanted. With that profit from 1.... I chose to buy almost 4 epaulets and 4 mace/shield helmets.

I also bought them ALL from Japanese vendors, because those guys deserve it the most. Japanese players never even heard of someone trolling someone.... it's kind of sad. Were I to want gold, I would no longer go to Blackthorn dungeon is what I am saying..... we can just as easy run Shadowguard with 2 players quite easily... in about an hour and a half per run. Far more profitable for my rares collecting habits. Blackthorn dungeon just became a dungeon we will never run again because of this Loophole the OP mentioned.

I did not know the prices were dropping. Sorry. They were expensive less than 2 months ago.

The EJ pack was half price. The Captains drop 1 or 3 items now and no other spawn. I was late to the party. Now I will enjoy it while it lasts.

Blackthorns Dungeon will now be a place where groups play and get a reward. No RNG involved.
New players, returning players,EJ players that cant use their bank have had a fun and rewarding experience.

Explain why this is a bad thing?

Because the value of the rewards dropped?  

I have already explained why it is bad 5 times in this tread, any part you dont to understand ?

I just do not agree. 

The Devs gave incentive to play there. We went again tonight.  Fewer and fewer will need to pay a ridiculous price for those items.  More and more casual players will be able to get them by playing in the dungeon.

You kinda made this domino by telling us about it.

A number of posts, flagged by multiple users, have been removed.

People complained about scripters being there.  Now anyone can get the items.

I was afraid they would ruin it by changing the Mobs there when the event is over. Now it does not matter what they put there.  I just hope we can still get Gold ingots.  I would get them as I needed them.

@Mariah ; would I know if some of mine were removed by popular demand?  Did you PM the posters?   

Mariah said:

A number of posts, flagged by multiple users, have been removed.

Good to see strangers healing and rezzing each other with no one worrying that they must be the top damager to get a drop! Enjoying my new eps and other BT gear rewards 🙂

jadav said:

Mariah said:

A number of posts, flagged by multiple users, have been removed.

I would like to know, why my posts got removed.

I did not break any rules on this forum.

They stopped telling which rules you supposedly broke a while ago and just default to #1 now. They also still haven't updated the ToS on this page and expect every new forum user to know all past newsletters. It's not very professional..

JollyJade said:

jadav said:

Mariah said:

A number of posts, flagged by multiple users, have been removed.

I would like to know, why my posts got removed.

I did not break any rules on this forum.

They stopped telling which rules you supposedly broke a while ago and just default to #1 now. They also still haven't updated the ToS on this page and expect every new forum user to know all past newsletters. It's not very professional..

Why would they stick around at a forum that:
1) wasn't theirs and profited off their game
2) was extremely shady behind the scenes
3) allowed constant disrespect?

JollyJade said:

jadav said:

Mariah said:

A number of posts, flagged by multiple users, have been removed.

I would like to know, why my posts got removed.

I did not break any rules on this forum.

They stopped telling which rules you supposedly broke a while ago and just default to #1 now. They also still haven't updated the ToS on this page and expect every new forum user to know all past newsletters. It's not very professional..

Or you could help contribute with a constructive and positive attitude and not have anything to worry about with moderation. 

If you hate the forum so much don't come here. If you can't stand the team, it's not an elected position so sucks for you. If you hate the game that much, log out for good. It's not a hard concept. 

It's impossible to make the game to please everyone. Constantly slinging poo degrading any direction the team goes and the players that like some of their ideas just isn't cool. You can get your point across without coming off as a total hole. 

What's this thread about?

Oh ya. I found out you can only have 500 blackthorn points.

Urge said:

Why would they stick around at a forum that:
1) wasn't theirs and profited off their game
2) was extremely shady behind the scenes
3) allowed constant disrespect?

Let us avoid discussing other forums. 

Is this a thread complaining that some items might actually fall in to an affordable range for some people? I find that funny.

schwieker said:

Is this a thread complaining that some items might actually fall in to an affordable range for some people? I find that funny.

+1000!!! 😂