Shouldn't the Developers rethink how EM Event items drop ?

popps 2019-03-22 18:48 #0

To my understanding, currently what determines the highest chance at a drop is looting rights.

Now, who has a higher chance (and quite a higher one too....) to get looting rights in between established players and new or returning players who have lesser suits and templates ?

I would imagine, the established players.... right ?

Now, if one looks at the economy in UO, it is easy to see how most items cost very large amounts of gold which, understandably, a new or returning player would not be able to afford.

Furthermore, considering how established players often already have most of everything, it is way hard for new and returning players to get a drop that they could really sell to established players for large amounts of gold which they could then use to afford those items being very expensive....

And this circle makes it therefore way difficult for new or returning players to be able to "catch up" with existing, established players....

They cannot have looting rights to earn good items to then sell to established players for lots and they do not have the large amounts of gold which many good items sell for....

EM Event items, if dropped NOT taking into account looting rights, could benefit also new and returning players for participating to the Event who could then sell that lucky dropped items for large amounts of gold to some established player and use that gold to buy those good items which they need to catch up.

And, perhaps, this system could be much beneficial to new and returning players is ALSO monsters' drops, from time to time, could benefit new and returning players with the occasional very good item drop even when they did not have top looting rights.

Otherwise, I see it inevitable that those players already on top and having highest looting rights will stay on top and those new and returning players always being unable to compete against them because doing less damage to Monsters.

Comments ?

Leonidas 2019-03-22 18:59 #1

Good Idea
lets screw the EM events now, they already screw up the deco business, lets focus on this now, i want to see what the EC crybabies will say about.

popps 2019-03-22 19:38 #2

Leonidas said:

Good Idea
lets screw the EM events now, they already screw up the deco business, lets focus on this now, i want to see what the EC crybabies will say about.

Unless the issue with the economy is dealt with, there simply is not a chance or hardly any, that new or returning players could stick playing UO when they simply cannot have a chance with looting rights when competing with established players.

And yet, these new or returning players, at least to my opinion, are those MOST needing for these drops in order to then be able to sell them for lots of gold to those established players who have the gold....

Insisting on looting rights to determine drop chances only helps established players who have the better suits and templates, doesn't it ?

Do we want players' numbers for UO to go up or not ?

Arron 2019-03-23 06:21 #3

popps said:

To my understanding, currently what determines the highest chance at a drop is looting rights.

Now, who has a higher chance (and quite a higher one too....) to get looting rights in between established players and new or returning players who have lesser suits and templates ?

I would imagine, the established players.... right ?

Now, if one looks at the economy in UO, it is easy to see how most items cost very large amounts of gold which, understandably, a new or returning player would not be able to afford.

Furthermore, considering how established players often already have most of everything, it is way hard for new and returning players to get a drop that they could really sell to established players for large amounts of gold which they could then use to afford those items being very expensive....

And this circle makes it therefore way difficult for new or returning players to be able to "catch up" with existing, established players....

They cannot have looting rights to earn good items to then sell to established players for lots and they do not have the large amounts of gold which many good items sell for....

EM Event items, if dropped NOT taking into account looting rights, could benefit also new and returning players for participating to the Event who could then sell that lucky dropped items for large amounts of gold to some established player and use that gold to buy those good items which they need to catch up.

And, perhaps, this system could be much beneficial to new and returning players is ALSO monsters' drops, from time to time, could benefit new and returning players with the occasional very good item drop even when they did not have top looting rights.

Otherwise, I see it inevitable that those players already on top and having highest looting rights will stay on top and those new and returning players always being unable to compete against them because doing less damage to Monsters.

Comments ?

This is not new. We all had to start at the bottom and work hard to be able to have all we have now, I know some have or used exploits to gain their wealth but that number is very small. Most of the gamers in UO play fair and by the rules and follow the ToS(Terms Of Service) What I would suggest is to either join a guild that you admire or have similar intrest as and work to gain what you need and want. I had to do it and my friends had to do it, Players in Uo are willing to help new and returning players get established or reestablished, however I don't think it is fair to guilt others because you want everything to be easy. I have been playing for more than 18 years and have only gotten one Event drop. I am ok with that as I do other things to earn what I want, takes awhile but it is well worth the effort. I play on Great Lakes so if you ever need assistance in earning gold I will be glad to help. Also Players are also willing to impart their knowledge and wisdom gained through years of playing. My character's name is Sir Kiven he is a tamer or Sir Steve my T hunter. I am On usually in the early mornings between 9 am or 10 am CST. Best of luck and see you in Sosoria.

Smoot 2019-03-23 06:57 #4

Ive done many many events for a long time now. So would like to share my thoughts.

First off, i loved the old system. top damager. UO has very little "endgame" and playing a well thought out character well (one character, not the 10 plus some are now playing to max loot rights) was very rewarding. with the new system, the drops dont mean as much to me. i dont feel like i earned them as much, because after looting rights its just RNG.

That being said, the guaranteed points system was made so that all could participate.

2 years ago (before certain individuals began massively exploiting the system by using 10, even 20 accounts to get max number of rights) you could get drops on a totally naked character with no skill. just suiciding into the boss about 20 times. (not dying to fire, but taking direct damage from the boss) thats not really possible anymore, because of the number of automated characters dealing damage extremely quickly. bosses used to live longer, and noob characters had much better chances.

However, i do feel EM events are still very inclusive of newer players or vet players without much gold to spend on gear, scrolls, or pets.

No, you dont have to have a top end suit. ive played UO for a very long time, have tons of gold, and i still dont like to spend more than 30 or 40 mil on a total suit. in todays terms of gold, thats really not alot. thats a very realistic goal for a new player. you can get by with even alot cheaper if you use VVV artifacts, and have slightly lower stats than i like to have.

Non max imbued jewels, an AI bow with mana leech and swing speed. healing skill. imbued suit. thats enough to get loot rights and can be put together for very cheap or even free.

no scrolls are really expensive. 110 or 115 archery or throwing is fine. taming, you dont need a maxed out cu, altho they are nice. a dragon will do almost as well. spellweaving is a pain to train, but thats no different for an old player vrs new or low gold one. Mystism can be good. easy to play, not my personal choice because cant cast rising colloses in towns, but its an option.

No, your not going to get loot rights on just a GM mage. and can forget about a melee character. like any game, specific combos are best for specific encounters. magery or melee just doesnt work well with most of the event bosses. no matter how good your suit is.

you do not need a high end suit. even under the old top damager system, all the people who consistantly got drops were using fully imbued. i like to use 1 cheap legendary now just for resists, but rest is still imbued.

alot is just practice and getting to know how to play your character in the chaos of an event. get the right bar, learn to tell when the boss is coming. dont die. rez and get back out fast if you do die. how to avoid certain effects. things like that will give you a much better chance than gear will ever give.

hope this provides some insights and helps with enjoying the Em events and getting some drops.

popps 2019-03-23 07:55 #5

Arron said:

popps said:

To my understanding, currently what determines the highest chance at a drop is looting rights.

Now, who has a higher chance (and quite a higher one too....) to get looting rights in between established players and new or returning players who have lesser suits and templates ?

I would imagine, the established players.... right ?

Now, if one looks at the economy in UO, it is easy to see how most items cost very large amounts of gold which, understandably, a new or returning player would not be able to afford.

Furthermore, considering how established players often already have most of everything, it is way hard for new and returning players to get a drop that they could really sell to established players for large amounts of gold which they could then use to afford those items being very expensive....

And this circle makes it therefore way difficult for new or returning players to be able to "catch up" with existing, established players....

They cannot have looting rights to earn good items to then sell to established players for lots and they do not have the large amounts of gold which many good items sell for....

EM Event items, if dropped NOT taking into account looting rights, could benefit also new and returning players for participating to the Event who could then sell that lucky dropped items for large amounts of gold to some established player and use that gold to buy those good items which they need to catch up.

And, perhaps, this system could be much beneficial to new and returning players is ALSO monsters' drops, from time to time, could benefit new and returning players with the occasional very good item drop even when they did not have top looting rights.

Otherwise, I see it inevitable that those players already on top and having highest looting rights will stay on top and those new and returning players always being unable to compete against them because doing less damage to Monsters.

Comments ?

This is not new. We all had to start at the bottom and work hard to be able to have all we have now, I know some have or used exploits to gain their wealth but that number is very small. Most of the gamers in UO play fair and by the rules and follow the ToS(Terms Of Service) What I would suggest is to either join a guild that you admire or have similar intrest as and work to gain what you need and want. I had to do it and my friends had to do it, Players in Uo are willing to help new and returning players get established or reestablished, however I don't think it is fair to guilt others because you want everything to be easy. I have been playing for more than 18 years and have only gotten one Event drop. I am ok with that as I do other things to earn what I want, takes awhile but it is well worth the effort. I play on Great Lakes so if you ever need assistance in earning gold I will be glad to help. Also Players are also willing to impart their knowledge and wisdom gained through years of playing. My character's name is Sir Kiven he is a tamer or Sir Steve my T hunter. I am On usually in the early mornings between 9 am or 10 am CST. Best of luck and see you in Sosoria.

"I have been playing for more than 18 years and have only gotten one Event drop."

The way I see it, the issue here is not about hoarding Event Items for new or returniong players but, rather, for them to have a way to have access to highly wanted (and thus fetching high prices) items....

Valuable items which, when sold, could bring to new and returning players significant amounts of gold which they could then use to purchase those items which they need to "catch up" with existing, established players....

The problem with the economy is, at least to my viewing, that those who could spend the Gold, and in large amounts, the existing and established players, since they have been playing for long, already have pretty much most of everything and there is hardly anything that they could be willing to spend large amounts of gold on.

Enter EM Events items....

Existing, established players do not have these and they may want to buy them and spend lots in them to get them.

Unfortunately, as it works now, looting rights determine who gets a drop and guess what ? It is precisely existing, established players who, thanking to their wealth, beefed up templates and suits (and more knowledge of the game) who get most always looting rights and, consequentially, drops for the good items.....

So, new or returning players remain empty ended for the most time which it makes it impossible or too hard for them to purchase what they need to "catch up" and, eventually, loose interest in UO and quit.

Personally, I think that, "if" dropped with a RNG criteria which did NOT take into account looting rights, EM Events' items could be a good way for new and returning players to set their hands on highly valuable items which they could then sell to get that much needed gold to then purchase those items prices at extremely expensive prices which they need to "catch up" with existing, established players.

This could even be further expanded and the Developers could also consent, lower MOBs to ALSO drop high end stuff, occasionally..... it would be that lucky drop which could greatly help a new or returning player to finally have the gold to purchase that 120 powerscroll or high end item which could greatly help them in their progression....

Otherwise, I do not see "how" new or returning players could EVER compete in looting rights with existing, established players who have their templates, pets, suits all maxed out.....

That is at least the way I see it.

Arron 2019-03-23 08:21 #6

We all started at the bottom and through hard work, determination and luck have been able to prosper. I understand your point but can you tell me why it should be easy for new and returning players when everyone else had to start at the bottom and work hard and grind to get what we have today?

Smoot 2019-03-23 09:31 #7

maybe my first post was too long.

you can get looting rights on a thrower, archer or tamer with an imbued suit and jewels and 110 scroll. cost of gear is really a non-issue.

i do agree that lack of knowledge of they system and how to easily get rights isnt explained well to the public.

popps 2019-03-23 09:36 #8

Arron said:

We all started at the bottom and through hard work, determination and luck have been able to prosper. I understand your point but can you tell me why it should be easy for new and returning players when everyone else had to start at the bottom and work hard and grind to get what we have today?

I am afraid that it is not possible to compare the "back then" with the "now"....

Back then, there were more players as now and, even though still difficult, new or returning players could still find buyers for the "smaller" items that they were able to retrieve with their reduced looting rights and templates....

But now with the higher scarcity of players ?

It is enormously more difficult now, to my opinion, for a new or returning player as compared to "back then" to find anything of interest to those players having the wealth and, thus, capable of speding large amounts of gold which could help these new or returning players to "catch up with" existing and established players....

So, at least to my opinion, it is not possible to argue that existing players did it "back then" when today, it is way more difficult for new and returning players...

Changing the way that EM Events' Items drop could be, to my opinion, a good start to help out new and returning players to obtain highly seeked items which they could then sell to those players who have the gold and the wealth, the existing, established players....

popps 2019-03-23 09:39 #9

Smoot said:

maybe my first post was too long.

you can get looting rights on a thrower, archer or tamer with an imbued suit and jewels and 110 scroll. cost of gear is really a non-issue.

i do agree that lack of knowledge of they system and how to easily get rights isnt explained well to the public.

While it "may" be possible to still obtain "some" looting rights for a new or returning player with a lesser template/suit/pet, ain't the good drops given to the "TOP" damagers ?

And wouldn't the "TOP" damagers be those players, already well established, who got their suits, templates, pets all maxed out ?

THIS is, to my opinion, precisely the issue.

It puts new and returning players in competition for "TOP" damaging positions, with other players against whom they simply have not a chance, given their highly inferior templates, suits, pets....

And when these new or returning players realize this, and the uneven odds to get any item of real value when competing for top looting rights, it is not a surprise that quite a number decide to give up playing Ultima Online....

KHAN 2019-03-23 15:10 #10

The whole EM event program should be "scrapped". They have turned into a (for the most part) a Rares Collector/RMT cash grab. Get the drop, sell the drop for gold, sell the gold for $$$. Rinse and repeat. I know SEVERAL (but not all) of the "rares collectors" who sell gold for $$$. They are pathetic and should be banned. But for WHATEVER reason, @Mesanna and company REFUSE to do anything about it.So sad.

Leonidas 2019-03-23 15:28 #11

And they are the ones here complaining about the bamboo floors and they are the ones complaining that to many people gonto events, that my crap EC client cant handle this and that, too many people in Luna, too many people on Yew, always complaining about the art, about gifts about everything, MIND your OWN damn business, We all pay the same for each account we own, this is NOT about you only. Leave things alone, dont ask them to fix what is NOT broken.

Rorschach 2019-03-23 15:50 #12

I will echo Mariah's comments. I realize many have strong feelings about recent changes. Please keep the Terms of Service in mind when posting.

Smoot 2019-03-23 15:56 #13

popps said:

Smoot said:

maybe my first post was too long.

you can get looting rights on a thrower, archer or tamer with an imbued suit and jewels and 110 scroll. cost of gear is really a non-issue.

i do agree that lack of knowledge of they system and how to easily get rights isnt explained well to the public.

While it "may" be possible to still obtain "some" looting rights for a new or returning player with a lesser template/suit/pet, ain't the good drops given to the "TOP" damagers ?

And wouldn't the "TOP" damagers be those players, already well established, who got their suits, templates, pets all maxed out ?

THIS is, to my opinion, precisely the issue.

It puts new and returning players in competition for "TOP" damaging positions, with other players against whom they simply have not a chance, given their highly inferior templates, suits, pets....

And when these new or returning players realize this, and the uneven odds to get any item of real value when competing for top looting rights, it is not a surprise that quite a number decide to give up playing Ultima Online....

good questions, ill try to answer.

its not top damager. all you need is looting rights. the devs call "looting rights" top damager because you have to cross a very low threshold. the old system, say if there were 20 drops and 150 people at the event, you had to be in one of those top 20 posistions for damage done.

now, healing and damage taken also counts. not just damage. thats how you could get a drop on a naked noob, by damage taken.

to give an example, heres a setup of a suit a use (one of my worse characters, but still get drops)

VVV crimson cincture, hunters headress, primer on arms - free

30 ssi composite bow (for AI) with mana leech and damage increase. other stats like slayer, stamina leech, and balanced are nice to have, but not need

primer on archery mastery (for 5hci 5dci bonus) very low cost maybe 100k max

quiver of infinity (250k)

imbued suit with hpi, stamina increase, hit point increase, lower mana cost, some mana regen, couple resists imbued - helpful player might be able to make for free, or piece together off items from vendor search for pretty cheap.

shroud of the condemned (about 500k, or can farm yourself in an hour or so)

imbued jewels with damage increase, hci, enhance pots, dex, stat (or extra healing skill if you dont have it trained yet)

100 anatomy

80ish tactics (still going up)

110 archery scroll (only trained to 90 but could go higher if not using hunters headress)

70 healing (using enhanced bandages for 80 effect skill)

80 spirit speak (nice for extra healing, or if you die and cant get bandages back, which is often the case. cant waste time looking for body. undertakers staff helps alot, or even the new first aid belt. but not absolutely needed. i dont have one on some characters like this)

85 chiv

combat skill points bought off npc just to get you to 200 combat skill points for the mana reduction

rest in focus and med

list of "combat skill points" can be found here

http://www.uoguide.com/Special_Moves

i use potions for extra healing,cures, stamina, and stats, which can be bought for pretty cheap

total cost of this suit is less than 2 mil if you do some legwork or ask around for help or pieces

i play this character by running in, Armor ignoring a couple times, then running out and healing up. i look for healer before the boss, so i know where to run if i die. i use a dress macro now, but before just had to re-equip each item fast as i could.

Sometimes, but very rarely, the boss will have Armor ignore disabled. youll notice if your AI does no damage (and i think you get a notification messege) then you have to keep consecrete weapon up.

Now i will say this, that i said before. the problem is yes im a vet player and know how to put together this kind of character, thats extremely cheap yet effective.

a new player might not know how to do that. but thats has nothing to do with suit cost, thats game experience and knowledge.

someone unfamiliar with events might not even realize that only the boss "counts" for loot rights. or might not even pull the right bar. or die to fire, or not know how to deal with boss effects like reflect damage, deathspit, cacophony, knockback, etc.

these could be explained somewhere better in an official guide. basically just how EM events work. but still takes a good number of events to get the hang of it.

on a final note, im not much of a tamer but a freind of mine gets drops with just a greater dragon and sorcerers suit. taming, vet, and animal lore imbued on jewels to get skill high enough to control one. also a very cheap and achievable setup. might not work every single time, but usually gets rights if played well and boss lives for a bit.

hope that sheds some light on cheap and easy ways to get started with EM events.

Smoot 2019-03-23 16:13 #14

Leonidas said:

And they are the ones here complaining about the bamboo floors and they are the ones complaining that to many people gonto events, that my crap EC client cant handle this and that, too many people in Luna, too many people on Yew, always complaining about the art, about gifts about everything, MIND your OWN damn business, We all pay the same for each account we own, this is NOT about you only. Leave things alone, dont ask them to fix what is NOT broken.

well im a rares collector. i dont care one way or the other about bamboo. bamboo, no bamboo, ill adapt and enjoy the game. i would want as many people as possible enjoy EM events. as a former RPer, i do really appreciate a good storyline. even if there were no drop at all.

what i do have a problem with is someing using programs and scripts to "play" 10 to 20 characters. theres only about 2 people that really do this now. but its a massive blow to collecting. why would i want an item that was gotten by cheating? thats not even rare and i know that person usually gets 5 to 10 of? just doesnt interest me. I still like old items and occassionaly keep an item i like that i get myself that fits in one of my 2 main collections. but have no interested buying cheat farmed "walmart" style EM items.

I will say its gotten slightly better since multiboxing was banned, but a few players (most in the scene probably would recognize the shops / characters) are very good at evading ban. they have hiding. they gate in the bots just before the boss and then leave immediately.

Im not going to overly complain about it, because is what it is. At least its a bannable offense now which is all i asked for year and a half ago at the anniversarry meetup. yes id like if they were cuaght, but know it can be tought for GMs to do. overall i think theres less casual multiboxers than a year ago. pretty sure some were banned, or scared off by risk of ban. but those 2 groups that remain still really hurt collecting, and the enjoyment of EM events for the average player.

LilyGrace 2019-03-23 16:13 #15

A couple of thoughts...

For years I had a connection that didn't allow me to participate. The population was still high, so even with a good connection it was super laggy. But when it's bad enough that you freeze up long enough that when you can move again the action is a screen or more away, you really can't catch up and make any impact. You had to enjoy it as a spectator. Which I did. But not without being disheartened at times. Nothing to be done.

I do recall some events where gates where created; step through and you got a gift if I remember correctly. Or there was something to click to get a prize in your pack. That was fun. I could try my best and get something for the participation. I don't know how you'd deal with those who'd loaf around and just take a prize when it's all over. Meh.

After a significant break, coming back with a better connection, the economy and the gear were so different that, yeah, it's hard to even figure out how to catch up. So if the prizes offered at the EM events are based on damage done to mobs you're not gonna get in on that.

Because of the kindness of others I now have a few characters that are beautifully put together and I think I can make a little difference now when fighting larger battles than I'm used to. But I'm not a natural at it. It makes me nervous! LOL! And I'm easily visually overloaded so there's a lot of...What?! Where?! Oh! I need to stop being nervous about it and maybe stop decorating or working a rogue long enough to practice more. There's no other way to get better. This I know.

But what I and others, who might not be the best natural fighters often do is, go heal and cure as much and for as many as we can. Frankly, I think that's worth something. I have had some folks tell me that healers can get drops. To the best of my recollection I never have. I'll still go sometimes for the comradery and the laughs before and after the battle anyway. But it would be nice to get a bright shiny toy now and again too.

Thanks!

Bilbo 2019-03-23 16:16 #16

Leonidas said:

We all pay the same for each account we own, this is NOT about you only..

You are %1000 right. So what makes it right for you to hinder some ones game play. I had ZERO lag before the fix but if some one did have lag due to what you did to your house then you are in the wrong. You have the right to do anything you want as long as it is legal and does not infringe on anybodies right to do the same.

Smoot 2019-03-23 18:44 #17

@LilyGrace its tough to get a drop with just healing done. for best chances, get the bars of dragons and cus and spam heals on those. players too but thats usually smaller heals. im not sure exactly how healing looting rights work, but know it has to be healing from damage done by the actual boss. like if you heal someone after a rez, that doesnt count towards looting rights. rezing doesnt count either. (altho i think it should but probably not possible with the way encounters are coded)

Smoot 2019-03-23 18:46 #18

@LilyGrace if your mostly healing, having spellweaving and doing a few word of deaths at the end will greatly increase your chances.

LilyGrace 2019-03-23 20:57 #19

Thanks Smoot. I'll try to throw more heals on pets instead of players. :-) I don't have a spellweaver.

Arron 2019-03-24 06:37 #20

popps said:

Arron said:

We all started at the bottom and through hard work, determination and luck have been able to prosper. I understand your point but can you tell me why it should be easy for new and returning players when everyone else had to start at the bottom and work hard and grind to get what we have today?

I am afraid that it is not possible to compare the "back then" with the "now"....

Back then, there were more players as now and, even though still difficult, new or returning players could still find buyers for the "smaller" items that they were able to retrieve with their reduced looting rights and templates....

But now with the higher scarcity of players ?

It is enormously more difficult now, to my opinion, for a new or returning player as compared to "back then" to find anything of interest to those players having the wealth and, thus, capable of speding large amounts of gold which could help these new or returning players to "catch up with" existing and established players....

So, at least to my opinion, it is not possible to argue that existing players did it "back then" when today, it is way more difficult for new and returning players...

Changing the way that EM Events' Items drop could be, to my opinion, a good start to help out new and returning players to obtain highly seeked items which they could then sell to those players who have the gold and the wealth, the existing, established players....

I do not agree. After all how many people do you need to do a spawn? I do spawns alone all the time, ti takes longer and more effort but it can be done even with imbued items which don't need to have the highest mods. Things which are worth having take time and effort. Plus you can ask in general chat for help or join a guild. I know not all shards are populated the same but you can find one that is moderately populated with locations for houses and players to interact with. I live on Great Lakes like I stated before, and even though many say the shard is dead, i can say that that is not the case. You can usually find somone to join you on hunts, but that depends on the time of day as well. After all we do most of us have real lives.

Shouldn't the Developers rethink how EM Event items drop ?

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