Loot?

Is there a plan to revamp the current loot in this game?  It seems to be that one can only get the "higher" end loot in 1-4 end game type places.  I think this is doing a disservice to the game and helping to further expand the differences between the have's and have not's.  

Is it possible to get a member of the team to address this concern and speak to it.  I would like to know if there are any plans to review this in light of the EJ expansion coming in the near term, I worry that new players will be turned off if they find after a month 95% of what they find is near useless and the items that are above grade are priced well above what seems to be a fair price.

Picus said:

Is there a plan to revamp the current loot in this game?  It seems to be that one can only get the "higher" end loot in 1-4 end game type places.  I think this is doing a disservice to the game and helping to further expand the differences between the have's and have not's.  

Is it possible to get a member of the team to address this concern and speak to it.  I would like to know if there are any plans to review this in light of the EJ expansion coming in the near term, I worry that new players will be turned off if they find after a month 95% of what they find is near useless and the items that are above grade are priced well above what seems to be a fair price.

This is something we constantly battle with, especially given the longevity of the game.  There are no concrete plans at this moment (i.e we are going to make X changes in Publish Y) however, this is the kind of balance change that comes into consideration whenever we add any content cluster.  That being said, I'm curious what your ideal situation would, considering you started the discussion.  I can offer more if you frame the discussion a bit more.  Thanks for starting the topic though, looking forward to a stimulating conversation!

@Kyronix I for one play strange hours. Many times I cannot find people who want people tagging along. (Especially that Multi*****s word) I think it would be great to add more cumulative point type systems so that solo players (Legit solo players) can get a chance at some of the higher end loot tables. 

Sure, luck plays a roll, but in some areas there should be more than just luck involved. I play several types of characters but none of the elite "I can solo anything" types. It would be nice, whether through quest or cumulative points, to be able to acquire some of the items I see on vendors for way too much gold for my budget.

Make some things more like the EM system, where you are guaranteed to eventually get some "1337" drops. Especially for the solo players. That is my $.02 on the matter. That being said, I do not expect a "Scholar's Halo" type drop on every mongbat or Troll. But I think there should be some rewards for those of us who play fair and don't have the time or energy to play for 10 hours a day. That was fun back in 1997-2003ish. But I have bills and family and a real job. Sometimes I can only play an hour or two a week.

Food for thought...

What is ideal?

More soloability, like the Diablo franchise.  Sure, you can party up with people and let the treasure rating scale change with the amount of people involved in the battle.  But the allure of Diablo games was that you could hunt for rare drops off of mobs and bosses alike yourself, depending on your magic find rating (luck in UO.). The more people in the fight, the higher chance the really rare stuffed dropped.

But hey, this is UO. It’s history has been team hunts. Which are fun.

But solo is much more fun.

Most MMO’s have it’s main villains and farming those villains for gear.  UO these days has its fair share.  So, older players know the drill on how to farm them.  

I’m all for newer content, but even with a little gold you can put together a decent suit.  If you want high end stuff, join a guild and hunt with them.  

But the game has ways to farm resources to sell for gold.  So obtaining gold is not out of the question.

The only diff between have and have not is effort, time, and ingenuity.

Returners should be aware of this method of obtaining some desireable items https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/artifact-collections/artifacts-castle-blackthorn/
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/world/dungeons/dungeon-castle-blackthorn/

I am not sure what solution I am looking for.  I am in a similar boat to the above poster where I log in, look at the old spots which I once hunted and find that they are both empty of players and not worth killing stuff because the loot is lacking.  I can do a champ and get some scrolls but the chance of a decent item being on the body is overly slim at best.  Samp dojo, clear it out, collect gold but little else.  The content in the game is there but the loot tables have not adjusted to the game.  I will try to formulate my thoughts better but, sadly, I am stuck in the office ATM.   

Kyronix said:

Picus said:

Is there a plan to revamp the current loot in this game?  It seems to be that one can only get the "higher" end loot in 1-4 end game type places.

...

This is something we constantly battle with, especially given the longevity of the game.  There are no concrete plans at this moment (i.e we are going to make X changes in Publish Y) however, this is the kind of balance change that comes into consideration whenever we add any content cluster. 

...

So the current loot systems in game:
a) random monster drops
b) random treasure chests / MIBs
c) random Artifact dungeon based drops (Doom Gauntlet, Anti-Virtue Dungeons)
d) random quest based rewards (Heartwood type kill/crafting quests)
e) turn-in based item choices ( Blackthorn Dungeon, Zoo/Library/Museum Collections, Void Pool)

So out of all these systems, only e) the turn-in based are guaranteed to eventually give the player something they want.  Crafting comes nowhere near top-end. Imbuing will get you a good start, but also not even close to Legendary.

Also some questions which everyone will have different answers to:
1) How soon/available should top gear be? I've gotten Lesser Artifacts off bandits, but had a greater dragon give nothing but junk.
2) Should top end loot be solo-able? This is a MMORPG; teamwork and social interaction....
3) Are traditional Crafting and Imbuing and their products in the right place compared to loot?

My thoughts:
1) Top end gear should be available to everyone; but NOT easily. Some Shards have affordable player Vendors, some do not. Shadowguard, the Doom Gauntlet and Peerless have a well-established role in Ultima Online. It is not limited to gear either, should Powerscrolls, Stat Increase Scrolls, Pinks and Blues be easier to come by too? Maybe...but not by much.

2) For solo players I would suggest improving/updating Collections making rewards cheaper and possibly stronger. These are Mondain's Legacy era items, pre-Imbuing and largely inferior to the new loot system, very few are still valued highly. Make it easy for new players to get their hands on useful gear to help them forward.

3) I think crafting loot should be brought equal to Imbuing. Tackling Crafting and Imbuing separate:

i) Imbuing is only a single skill Investment and is very reliable. It does not give top-end items but I think it is in a good place though as players must still gather components which does require high end items to be earned elsewhere.

ii) Traditional crafting was crushed when Imbuing was introduced and it still rests in the crater to this day. The only saving grace is for Tailors, if you have a GM Tailor, you probably have a character that can easily gather Barbed or Horned Leather. But less then 50 resists on a piece of armor won't get you very far. The exception is the improved craftables from Doom and Kolt City were a nice way to give Legendary Crafters a purpose, but if you can get a hold of the rare drop components, you probably have top-end gear already.
  More help is needed. I would suggest new materials made up of blended old materials. Alloys would grant +20 Resist to Armor or a 20% Hit Chance Increase to weapons, depending on mix:
- Agapite  with Shadow Iron for "Black Alloy".  Weapon = Hit Lower Attack, Armor = Damage Eater.
- Copper with Verite "Green Alloy".    Weapon = Hit Lower Defense; Armor = Defense Increase
- Bronze with Gold for "Yellow Alloy"; Luck, Lower Requirements,
- Dull Copper with Valorite for "Silver Alloy"; Weapons = Swing Speed;   Armor = Stamina Increase

Similarly, wood for Carpentry and hides for Tailoring might require "treating" or "curing" to give new and better materials (ex: dragon scales added to leather). This could at least put Traditional Crafters back and par with at least Imbuing. Each blend would have a specific "niche" like the alloys above. This would put Traditional Crafters to equal use as Imbuing. To compensate, a component or catalyst would be needed to create the new materials, which would be equal to the time and/or gold Imbuers have to put into acquiring their components. This will give returning players a chance to get their characters ready for new game content without forking over millions of gold at the few well-stocked player vendors. Also, the competition may drive prices at some of the crazy economy shards down.

So there are my thoughts.
1) Make Collection type items more available to new players to help them go from New Haven to Peerless/Champ Spawn/ Shadowguard
2) add new advanced material to the Crafting system so returning players can update their gear and shakeup the stagnant Shard econmies.
3) End game content should be written for groups of characters equiped with powerscrolls and top end weapon/armor. Since powerscrolls are very limited, making the above changes should help the equipment end to catch new and returning players up. 

Thalon said:

Kyronix said:

Picus said:

Is there a plan to revamp the current loot in this game?  It seems to be that one can only get the "higher" end loot in 1-4 end game type places.

...

This is something we constantly battle with, especially given the longevity of the game.  There are no concrete plans at this moment (i.e we are going to make X changes in Publish Y) however, this is the kind of balance change that comes into consideration whenever we add any content cluster. 

...

So the current loot systems in game:
a) random monster drops
b) random treasure chests / MIBs
c) random Artifact dungeon based drops (Doom Gauntlet, Anti-Virtue Dungeons)
d) random quest based rewards (Heartwood type kill/crafting quests)
e) turn-in based item choices ( Blackthorn Dungeon, Zoo/Library/Museum Collections, Void Pool)

So out of all these systems, only e) the turn-in based are guaranteed to eventually give the player something they want.  Crafting comes nowhere near top-end. Imbuing will get you a good start, but also not even close to Legendary.

Also some questions which everyone will have different answers to:
1) How soon/available should top gear be? I've gotten Lesser Artifacts off bandits, but had a greater dragon give nothing but junk.
2) Should top end loot be solo-able? This is a MMORPG; teamwork and social interaction....
3) Are traditional Crafting and Imbuing and their products in the right place compared to loot?

My thoughts:
1) Top end gear should be available to everyone; but NOT easily. Some Shards have affordable player Vendors, some do not. Shadowguard, the Doom Gauntlet and Peerless have a well-established role in Ultima Online. It is not limited to gear either, should Powerscrolls, Stat Increase Scrolls, Pinks and Blues be easier to come by too? Maybe...but not by much.

2) For solo players I would suggest improving/updating Collections making rewards cheaper and possibly stronger. These are Mondain's Legacy era items, pre-Imbuing and largely inferior to the new loot system, very few are still valued highly. Make it easy for new players to get their hands on useful gear to help them forward.

3) I think crafting loot should be brought equal to Imbuing. Tackling Crafting and Imbuing separate:

i) Imbuing is only a single skill Investment and is very reliable. It does not give top-end items but I think it is in a good place though as players must still gather components which does require high end items to be earned elsewhere.

ii) Traditional crafting was crushed when Imbuing was introduced and it still rests in the crater to this day. The only saving grace is for Tailors, if you have a GM Tailor, you probably have a character that can easily gather Barbed or Horned Leather. But less then 50 resists on a piece of armor won't get you very far. The exception is the improved craftables from Doom and Kolt City were a nice way to give Legendary Crafters a purpose, but if you can get a hold of the rare drop components, you probably have top-end gear already.
  More help is needed. I would suggest new materials made up of blended old materials. Alloys would grant +20 Resist to Armor or a 20% Hit Chance Increase to weapons, depending on mix:
- Agapite  with Shadow Iron for "Black Alloy".  Weapon = Hit Lower Attack, Armor = Damage Eater.
- Copper with Verite "Green Alloy".    Weapon = Hit Lower Defense; Armor = Defense Increase
- Bronze with Gold for "Yellow Alloy"; Luck, Lower Requirements,
- Dull Copper with Valorite for "Silver Alloy"; Weapons = Swing Speed;   Armor = Stamina Increase

Similarly, wood for Carpentry and hides for Tailoring might require "treating" or "curing" to give new and better materials (ex: dragon scales added to leather). This could at least put Traditional Crafters back and par with at least Imbuing. Each blend would have a specific "niche" like the alloys above. This would put Traditional Crafters to equal use as Imbuing. To compensate, a component or catalyst would be needed to create the new materials, which would be equal to the time and/or gold Imbuers have to put into acquiring their components. This will give returning players a chance to get their characters ready for new game content without forking over millions of gold at the few well-stocked player vendors. Also, the competition may drive prices at some of the crazy economy shards down.

So there are my thoughts.
1) Make Collection type items more available to new players to help them go from New Haven to Peerless/Champ Spawn/ Shadowguard
2) add new advanced material to the Crafting system so returning players can update their gear and shakeup the stagnant Shard econmies.
3) End game content should be written for groups of characters equiped with powerscrolls and top end weapon/armor. Since powerscrolls are very limited, making the above changes should help the equipment end to catch new and returning players up. 

Excellent.  Great observations.  *You like this.*

I think all boss encounters should have basically same drop rate of legendaries as shadowguard does.  I would also like to see some new content added to things like ML bosses.  Champion bosses at spawns should also have better loot as well.   I mentioned this in another thread, but I think the new Doom should be adjusted where a lot of old drops from there should be vendor picked from points or turning in darkfather blood.  Nothing is more disappointing then spending two hours in doom only to get something like axe of the heavens.  I do like some fo the new drops in there but to me its still not worth spending time at as long as old drops still drop and take your chance away.

This is why i have vendors especially for new players which has loot lesser artifact and above on it even major and legendary pieces, i dont price it i just put it on the vendor and whatever the vendor prices it as it stays as..example could put a piece of major on and it charge 20gps could put jewellery on charge 5gps so a new player can get a fairly good starting armour for just 1-2k, if more shards did this instead of leaving it on corpses to waste new players can do a lot more in the game to get their own elite bits x

Let myself to add couple cents.
As for my look modern dev.team are very far from game mechanics, loot chances in real game, market prices and suits building.
As all we know, the top armors are used in PvP. The examples of such armor parts are laying on safes in Luna Atlantic like in museum.
When I'm playing UO - I spend about 6-12 hours a day doing the mostly value pvm boses.
And after some month of such playing I didn't see such strong no-name legendaries in loot. All I got were a lot of low-end pieces, I have to sale for 5-50mils, to buy one top piece in PvP set for 300+ mils from a COUPLE of well-known traders...

99% of artifacts like "Hat of the magi" and so on are too weak against modern strong legendaries so nobody use them.

If devs. will decide to revamp loot. Artifacts should be eaqual or even hire than top legendaries.

Another idea for revamp craft - is to add rare reagents to each boss - like ML or SA boses to make items like strong legendaries. For each property like for imbuing, but overcap imbuing weight.
Strong items I mean 13+ props on jewelry or 28+stats hpr, mr, lmc, eaters on armor parts. 

Personally I think you should revamp ALL the mini arti's in the game, especially the paragon ones, but also the Mondain's legacy mini arti drops.  90% of them go in the bin for clean up points with only a few that are worth wearing, using or vending.  The main peerless bosses should have a huge loot upgrade on the body, 99.9% of loot on those stays on them, unless someone wants low end unravelling crap.

The shadowguard encounter needs the time to be extended once the boss drops as most of the time if you are looting manually you do not even get time to get it all off the body before you are kicked out, let alone pick up all the gold.  Given you have probably spent over and hour or two doing rooms for 0 loot prior to this the fact you do not even get the time to loot properly once you have completed it is just a slap in the face.

The loot table for zipatricol etc is appauling.  Especially the main drops, the moonstone crystal is fine but having spent close to a DAY doing all the mini quests, spending 100k on prodo, and 300k on siege to get one of the quest bits, to end up with a flipping reward title as a 'reward' for all that effort means people in my guild just can't be bothered with doing it at all.  No-one wants to spend all day doing quests and crap for a 'title'.

Who ever thought reward titles were that.... a reward?  Not me. 

Stuff like greater dragons, ancient wyrms, balrons, yamandon, hiryus, oni, lich lords,  Trex, the high hp Dinosaurs, should all give the chance of dropping a mini arti.  (as well as ilshenar paras and ML named mobs)  Some new ones would be nice.

Extending or increasing the 'resources' on some critters might be nice too.  Add some of the essences and other imbuing ingredients as a 'rare' drop on upper level critters. And all of these should give the chance of giving a legendary piece every so often but certainly more major and greater artifact loot pieces

And ALL mini artifact drops should be able to be turned in 10:1 for a 'Better' arti as with treasures of tokuno.  That is why that was always successful, if you didn't want the mini you could save em and trade em in for something you DID want.

LillyMae_1 said:

This is why i have vendors especially for new players which has loot lesser artifact and above on it even major and legendary pieces, i dont price it i just put it on the vendor and whatever the vendor prices it as it stays as..example could put a piece of major on and it charge 20gps could put jewellery on charge 5gps so a new player can get a fairly good starting armour for just 1-2k, if more shards did this instead of leaving it on corpses to waste new players can do a lot more in the game to get their own elite bits x

Very good point at the end LillyMae. I also did this from Age of Shadows through Mondain's Legacy. Any medable piece of armor with LRC 15% or better went in my backpack and then to my vendor for a few hundred gold. Nothing a vet would want, but great for someone training their first mage. My vendor straved to death when players stopped buying. Maybe I should setup shop again once Endless launches.

@Kyronix
I love exploring the maps. Just wish that exploration could yield pretty damn good loot or see things that usually shouldnt be there, very rarely but possible. 
Not talking about stumbling across an IDOC or something like that. Back in the days, IGM's would constantly make little oddities randomly in the world. Not just scriped AI spawn. Made you feel that you havent seen everything ingame yet.

All these ruins and world decoration, these spawns today just has wraiths / skeletons / liches etc.
Make them more than just something you pass by now and then.  
Things shouldnt pop if you "teleport" there on a macro to check spawns, but it'd require actual approach on foot / mount. 

Don't ruin the feel of these places by making it purple/pink-galore, but just a nice little random spawn now and then. Maybe rare deco? Maybe a rare monster with chance of cool loot?

In fell, things could spawn that will alert people in the region. Create a goal to fight over.

Make people want to explore the world again and feel like there are things to find. Dynamic things happening that wont repeat.
Emergent gameplay at its finest.

If they could somehow increase the "cohesiveness" of mods on loot they might not even have to really bump overall power on it.
Have less loot on monsters over all, and make it less likely to be complete trash.