Skill improvement ideas - stealing, snooping, stealth, hiding + assassin hooned

  Thief gloves as the next event reward, the characteristics could not be great, but the main idea is that these gloves will allow you to use the stealing skill when you have a weapon in your hands, this will allow you to create pvp thieves to reduce the enemy's consumes in exchange for the loss of an entire skill + this can be used for pve stealing monsters, again in exchange for an entire skill, this will allow the creation of new subclasses and add variety to the builds.

  Also add a passive feature for snooping, in addition to picking pockets, snooping will increase the number of stones that can be stolen, say 1 stone for every 10-20 skill, and for pve it will increase the chance of stealing a rare resource, again in exchange for a whole skill for a combat build!
  
Stealth and hiding should provide 1% damage modifier bonus for every combined 1% skill and should be teathered for stealth class abilities like backstab/shadowstrike, idea is if you have invested in to this skills you will have aka double slayer 200% dmg modifier cap (300 if u have 100% dmg increas ofc) for pvp you will still have cap dmg but if you want to play stealth class and invested that much skill points you will be able to hit max dmg with fast weapons with low base dmg, for pve it will mean every shadowstrike ability will hit for max dmg  if you invest in hiding + stealth, but if you want to attack any weapons with stealth + hiding bonus you will need to invest in to ninjitsu as well and use backstab, so 3 skills to be rouge and get some real bonuses.
  It will not give you extra dmg abouve cap, you still have dmg modifire cap but if you invest in to that much skills you will got option to not use slayers on yor talisman and weapons and will open another options for new/old classes.

P.S. also we need to change assassin hooned bonus, atleast remove facing rule.
Or make assassin hooned to be flat dmg bonus and put requirement to have combined 100% assassin skills(ninja/hiding/stealth + mby thief skills) to use it.

  

keven2002 said:

I used to love "PvP Thieving" back in the day before insurance/LRC/etc, but sadly I think those days are gone forever. 

What is described above is essentially a thief template with PvP skill (ie weapon skill) that would allow them to fight back. This is the exact template I had 20+ years ago where I'd steal something from someone to entice them to attack and then I'd kill them. That can still be done without any changes; it would just require the proper weapon/setup mixed with timing. That said, the amount of skills packed onto a true PvPer is insane these days so a thief is still at a severe disadvantage because you are down at least 2 skills (Snooping/Stealing). I did pretty well decades ago because there were many more "casual PvPers" compared to now where PvP is a small group of guys that it's all they do (and many run scripts). It's a different environment.

This is just my opinion, but stealing these days isn't even worth it just for a few consumables. I'd argue that stealing consumables isn't worth it and in the grand scheme you are better off just going with 2 additional PvP skills and killing the person and looting them dry. If someone is in it for the thrill of stealing then a typical hiding/stealth thief where you sneak up and steal something while running off works just fine.

keven2002 said:

I think the Dev team can do some additional things to make PvM thieving fun, but with insurance etc now in Fel, I think the ship has long sailed on PvP stealing.

Cursed.. like those invasion artifact u trade for point should have been.

The mechanic already exist for things like PS. 


Edit: it was the PERFECT event for them PvP thief.. instead of being fresh meat cuz of the dumb disarm trap mechanic.. they could have been something to deal with as defender on Fel.

Like what??
Oh.. right.. nvm, you are correct we decided to cope with them cheaters so very little people go on Fel and prefer to cope with the weaker of them cheater; the one botting on Tram.

Wonder if more simply the snooping skill could be removed and the ability to peek into a person’s backpack could tied just to stealing. Perhaps too imbalancing if the whole template gets more love.

Think permitting a thief to steal with one free hand is a good idea but would prefer it to be a mechanic tied to skill level or perhaps a new mastery for stealing rather than locked behind specific gloves. Maybe this mastery could also impart a passive that increases stealing weight as you described.

There are definitely opportunities to make it relevant and not just a griefing tool. For example, it might be interesting to treat it also as a support skill where you can “steal” stats, buffs, etc. from monsters and players and apply them to yourself and to party members.

loop said:

where you can “steal” stats, buffs, etc. from monsters and players and apply them to yourself and to party members.

That could have been SOO dope when the faction wars was around.. like a 30 seconds max for PvP.

Or a type of discord for PvE; 60 sec... could be very interesting.. like a ninja (new skill) hitting some chakra point (just to make them weaker) no need to boost your numbers.

Perhaps “steal skills” from a player or monster in a limited way and apply to yourself as well. Sort of like discord in the sense of weakening your opponent.

IDK.. I like your idea of snooping being link to stealing (or the one hander and/or heavier mastery).. but that discord should 100% be link to ninja, imo.. a chakra stuff plus u have room for ninja without the snooping?.

That discord should be stand still next to your victim (longer action time than stealing, imo)

Like could be good for PvE and in PvP.. only good before the engage.. u send your thief as a scout.. u have people killing a champion.. unaware of people coming.. and the ninja/thief could (do his thing) target their first victim with PvP discord.. type of stuff.. in the heat of the action it would be VERY hard for them thief to discord people in PvP.. as they move.

It could even synergize well, in the heat of the action, with their other ninja skill.. when u taking heavy dmg if u move more than x steps.


I'm a nerd in a sense.. a thief stealing "power" make no sense to me.. if u want something like that.. use the necromancy

For sure, perhaps it makes thief too magical whereas UO treats it more “low fantasy”.

Beyond the skill itself, there are opportunities to introduce thief-specific content following the pattern of trade routes and fish monger quests. Perhaps you must steal something from a town, npc, or dungeon chest. I don’t enjoy this content much myself, but it’s another thing to consider alongside making stealing more mechanically relevant.

The OP’s ideas about making stealth a vector for attaining the damage cap are interesting, but I don’t think it would move the needle too much in PVM, where everything is about whirlwind for the most part. Stealth and ninjitsu are quite awkward in PVM. They need love separately from stealing, I feel.

Let's be honest tho.. for that kind of stuff we should be in the NL section.. wich is a shame.

Edit: but yeah.. in PvE this new discord skill for ninja with stealth could be a nice option for poison build to cap the PvE dmg.. and in PvP it add another niche dynamic. (no timestamp go at 2m10s.)

loop said:

The OP’s ideas about making stealth a vector for attaining the damage cap are interesting, but I don’t think it would move the needle too much in PVM, where everything is about whirlwind for the most part. Stealth and ninjitsu are quite awkward in PVM. They need love separately from stealing, I feel.

 The idea about dmg modifire is bcz when you spend that much skill to just have invisibility and a bit more safty you actually almost loose protection skills from pool and bots will not abuse this anyway bcz they already run around and smash everything + paragon insta reveal, they will no need to hide, but another way to combine 30 hiding and 80 stealth (min stealth req.) for 110% dmg modifire to get rid of chivalry or bushido for non slayer moster will be definitely another gameplay option. This will be only solo target option and will not totaly brake meta but gives rogue subclass option.
  Also if you will wish to go deeper in to hiding and stealth to equip more heavy armor, for example, you will have option to remove slayers and use hit lower attack or another hit option on weapon + another types of talismans - it will not creat total inbalance but create more diversion - for me it is win win change.

loop said:
There are definitely opportunities to make it relevant and not just a griefing tool. For example, it might be interesting to treat it also as a support skill where you can “steal” stats, buffs, etc. from monsters and players and apply them to yourself and to party members.

KroDuK said:

I'm a nerd in a sense.. a thief stealing "power" make no sense to me.. if u want something like that.. use the necromancy