Question about Shadow Hounds

popps said:

I have been taming Shadow Hounds but am not sure which are keepers and which not...

Can anyone more expert please help with some guidance ?

Normally, the higher the intensity the better yet, since Shadow Hounds are pack animals, I would imagine that one would not train them up to the max possible slot 3 but leave them at slot 1 so as to be able to use 5 of them and, therefore, whatever intensity they may come with does not matter... but is that so?

I mean, I have heard fellow players saying that they were looking for 90% intensity Shadow Hounds... what for, if I may ask, if in the end they do not get trained to their max possible 3 slots if one wants to have a pack of more then just 2 of them ?

Also, they can get tamed as slot 1 or 2... are those tamed at slot 2 to be discarded entirely ?

Is there anything to look at in order to tell apart a good Shadow Hound that is a keeper from one that is a bad one to be released ?

Also, since my Tamer lacks Stable slots space, what is the bare minimum requirement for Animal Taming/Animal Lore to hold a Shadow Hound so that I could use another character's Stable to hold some Shadow Hounds ?

Thank you for the kind help.

There was a guide posted at beginning of this go find it

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Two things are most important for Shadow Hounds. First, it needs to be 1 slot on spawn, not 2 (Shadow Hounds that spawn as 2 slots are basically worthless). Second, it needs to have 150+ DEX/Stamina (they spawn with 145-165 DEX). 150 Stamina gives them max attack speed.

High HP/Resists are nice (especially Physical/Fire/Energy).

Here's the stat range i've seen so far.

Hits: 150-200
Stamina: 145-150
Mana: 185-210
STR: 225-270
DEX: 145-165
INT: 185-210

RESISTS
Physical: 55-65
Fire: 35-45
Cold: 45-65
Poison: 25-35
Energy: 25-35

Taming Required: 84.0

You can use a Necromancer's familiar "Dark Wolf" to transfer and control Shadow Hounds (but not bond them). This means you can store excess Shadow Hounds in a Necromancer's stables. However, if the Shadow Hound is slot leveled at all, then the Dark Wolf familiar will no longer allow you to transfer/command the Shadow Hound.

popps said:

Lastly, "what if" I use a Soulstone in between characters to transfer the 84.0 Animal Taming skill points so as to then be able to transfer the Shadow Hounds to that character, what happens to the Shadow Hounds in the Stables when I take off the Animal Taming skill from them to put it onto another character ? The Stabled Shadow Hounds would remain in the Stables safely only I cannot take them out until I put back the 84.0 Animal Skill back onto that character ?

keven2002 said:

popps said:

Lastly, "what if" I use a Soulstone in between characters to transfer the 84.0 Animal Taming skill points so as to then be able to transfer the Shadow Hounds to that character, what happens to the Shadow Hounds in the Stables when I take off the Animal Taming skill from them to put it onto another character ? The Stabled Shadow Hounds would remain in the Stables safely only I cannot take them out until I put back the 84.0 Animal Skill back onto that character ?

Correct.

Nothing happens to your stabled pets (shadow hounds or any other) if you swap around taming between chars. That is, nothing happens as long as they stay there. Obviously if you take taming off your char then claim the pet from the stable there is going to be an issue with controlling the pet AND putting it back in the stable (you won't have the space).

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Two things are most important for Shadow Hounds. First, it needs to be 1 slot on spawn, not 2 (Shadow Hounds that spawn as 2 slots are basically worthless). Second, it needs to have 150+ DEX/Stamina (they spawn with 145-165 DEX). 150 Stamina gives them max attack speed.

High HP/Resists are nice (especially Physical/Fire/Energy).

Here's the stat range i've seen so far.

Hits: 150-200
Stamina: 145-150
Mana: 185-210
STR: 225-270
DEX: 145-165
INT: 185-210

RESISTS
Physical: 55-65
Fire: 35-45
Cold: 45-65
Poison: 25-35
Energy: 25-35

Taming Required: 84.0

You can use a Necromancer's familiar "Dark Wolf" to transfer and control Shadow Hounds (but not bond them). This means you can store excess Shadow Hounds in a Necromancer's stables. However, if the Shadow Hound is slot leveled at all, then the Dark Wolf familiar will no longer allow you to transfer/command the Shadow Hound.

popps said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Two things are most important for Shadow Hounds. First, it needs to be 1 slot on spawn, not 2 (Shadow Hounds that spawn as 2 slots are basically worthless). Second, it needs to have 150+ DEX/Stamina (they spawn with 145-165 DEX). 150 Stamina gives them max attack speed.

High HP/Resists are nice (especially Physical/Fire/Energy).

Here's the stat range i've seen so far.

Hits: 150-200
Stamina: 145-150
Mana: 185-210
STR: 225-270
DEX: 145-165
INT: 185-210

RESISTS
Physical: 55-65
Fire: 35-45
Cold: 45-65
Poison: 25-35
Energy: 25-35

Taming Required: 84.0

You can use a Necromancer's familiar "Dark Wolf" to transfer and control Shadow Hounds (but not bond them). This means you can store excess Shadow Hounds in a Necromancer's stables. However, if the Shadow Hound is slot leveled at all, then the Dark Wolf familiar will no longer allow you to transfer/command the Shadow Hound.

As in regards to a Shadow Hounds "pack", it is not clear to me whether they are best used in a pack of 5 (1 slot pets), a pack of 4 (1 x 2 slots and 3 x 1 slot) or just 2 of them training one Shadow Hound all the way to 3 slots and the second one only to 2 slots.

The dimension of the pack, I would imagine, can be quite significative in what Shadow Hounds to use within the pack (that is, whether low/average/high intensity Shadow Hounds could be used in the pack)...

If using a pack of 5 of 1 slot each, this would mean, I assume (but am not sure, this is why I am asking to players more knowledged about the ins and outs), that the intensity of the tamed Shadow Hounds would become meaningless since hardly any training would be done, not raising any Shadow Hound of the pack not even to 2 slots.

If using a pack of 4, one Shadow Hound raised to 2 slots to be the "front" hitter, and then the remaining 3 staying at 1 slot, I would imagine that the logic is the same... intensity would really not matter much since none of them would be trained all the way to 3 slots.

If using only a pack of 2 Shadow Hounds, of course the one trained all the way to 3 slots would need to be a high intensity one so as to be able to raise as many stats/skills as possible the highest possible but the one only trained to 2 slots, I imagine could be also of average or even below average intensity...

Is that so ?

Thing is, in terms of a more effective hunting, which pack would do better, a pack of all 5 weaker Shadow Hounds at 1 slot, a pack of 4 Shadow Hounds with 1 only a little better at 2 slots and 3 weaker ones at 1 slot or a pack of 2 with one really good Shadow Hound at 3 slots and an average second Shadow Hound stopping the training at 2 slots ?

Anyone who has before trained and used pack animals (or if they have already tested thee 3 different configurations of Shadow Hounds) can share their experience about which pack configuration could be more effective when hunting ?

Thank you for the kind help !

Have you ever once been the one to try something then report for others? 

@popps To help you.. understand pack instinct is the Berserker mode for a tamer.. back then, the frenzied ostard and firesteed were the best two pack animal a tamer could use for PvP.. you still can bring them for PvE stuff.. but they died fast/ a headach to deal with for PvE.. even if u had a tamer friend to tank the boss for you.. i'd rather brang a runebeetle to smelt armor and poison, combine with a NM or Unicorn.

Now, we can do the math real fast:


Shadow hound is canine right?
Make sure to read that note.


Now for your questionsss.. u clever enough to know this is situational.. what are u going to hunt? with whom? Is it worth the headach?

Pack instinct tamer = zerker tamer... if you looking to sacrifice DMG for Tankiness on a zerker u doing something wrong OR very niche.. 100% there is a boss out there with a tons of HP dealing little dmg (like the manifestation of evil)

But yeah, general rules it's "the" zerker template for tamer. The idea was to help low level tamer to do something meaningful while they were training their tamer with ~70-80 taming. (was very long to train them)
They arn't build to be self sustaining on the long run.

PS: I could be wrong, lots of things changed and lots of Heresy for a sandbox game.


The real question is.. does it really worth sacrificing 5 stable slots for something very niche (if u ain't PvPing)
Only you can answer that question.

KroDuK said:

@ popps To help you.. understand pack instinct is the Berserker mode for a tamer.. back then, the frenzied ostard and firesteed were the best two pack animal a tamer could use for PvP.. you still can bring them for PvE stuff.. but they died fast/ a headach to deal with for PvE.. even if u had a tamer friend to tank the boss for you.. i'd rather brang a runebeetle to smelt armor and poison, combine with a NM or Unicorn.

Now, we can do the math real fast:


Shadow hound is canine right?
Make sure to read that note.


Now for your questionsss.. u clever enough to know this is situational.. what are u going to hunt? with whom? Is it worth the headach?

Pack instinct tamer = zerker tamer... if you looking to sacrifice DMG for Tankiness on a zerker u doing something wrong OR very niche.. 100% there is a boss out there with a tons of HP dealing little dmg (like the manifestation of evil)

But yeah, general rules it's "the" zerker template for tamer. The idea was to help low level tamer to do something meaningful while they were training their tamer with ~70-80 taming. (was very long to train them)
They arn't build to be self sustaining on the long run.

PS: I could be wrong, lots of things changed and lots of Heresy for a sandbox game.


The real question is.. does it really worth sacrificing 5 stable slots for something very niche (if u ain't PvPing)
Only you can answer that question.

popps said:

I made a note about Shadow Hounds being a canine pet, but am not sure why you pointed that out.

Perhaps to use them in a pack in combination with some of the wolves or hell hounds ?

Just in case it was not consider "demon" cuz back then u could bring an imp with 2 firesteed for a 3 pack.. but yeah u nail it.. cuz then your idea of a "tank" within the hound could have been a firesteed/mount. (could have worth a try, imo)

popps said:

Bottom line is, pack pets are really a new Tamer's pet worth using only for average/low level targets and not really for any of the big bosses out there (other then a few who might have lots of hit points but do only limited damage) ?

It was real good for PvP vs unprepared target.. if u have time to waste try to tame 5 frenzied ostard and on an alt account try to fight those weak creatures when they ALL ATTACK.. from memory instead of receiving 8 dmg they would hit u for 16 dmg (5 of them, the frienzed ostard had good dex but NOT the 150 those hounds got) without parrying nor AoE spell like the necro frost AoE.. u better run.. I can't imagine how strong those 5 hounds must be for PvP vs someone unprepared.

I'm pretty sure you could still find a niche PvE content for your pack of 5 shadow hound like @PlayerSkillFTW mention (a pack of 5 hound seems to be top 1 dmg for tamers, at moment)


But yeah.. after trying the 5 frienzed ostard going from 8 to 16 dmg.. think about what a pack of 5 hounds could do.. if you're skilled and imaginative.. u could 100% find a niche use for them IF u have the room.

PvE wise the general rule for pack instinct; was to help noobs.. like u invite a friend he training taming and wants to go kills bigger target with you.. he could bring a pack even with low taming skill instead of bringing a drake.

popps said:

So, the 84.0 Taming requirement I assume also means that to control (i.e. to transfer to), it is necessary a character with at last 84.0 Animal Taming. Animal Lore skill level is not important to transfer Shadow Hounds to (so as to use extra Stable room...) ?

This is important because it would make it faster to only bring Animal Taming to 84 for 1 or 2 characters and not need to have to also do it for Animal Lore.

In order to transfer it the recipient tamer must have a control chance above 0%. 

https://www.uo-cah.com/pet-control-chance

So a tamer will need a combination of taming and lore to achieve that.  If you have a very low control chance the odds are transferring successfully decrease and it will most likely take multiple attempts to successfully transfer.  

As for what to look for:
You do not want:
2 slot
Under 150 stam, only the early ones could have less than 150, so it you are looking for to buy one check for that.  If you are looking to tame one from chests, you don't need to worry about it anymore.

Intensity kind of matters, because you do want higher stat pets, however the most important thing for pack animals is hit points and resists (physical and fire being priority) 

5 pack is the best bang for the buck.  However, how useful those are depends on your template, ability as a tamer and your playstyle.  You do not want to substitute other canine for one as they have lower dex or are higher slot. You want a pack of five Shadow Hounds.  

Pack instinct appears to be some sort of a buff and you will need to refresh it by having your pack attack again (all kill) or the damage bonus falls off after about a minute. 

Packs aren't for everyone but used right they can be very beneficial and they can be used in end game content.  Also remember you can use the taming mastery as one to split the damage between the pack as opposed to one animal taking all the damage, this can synergize well with bard songs.

Violet said:

popps said:

So, the 84.0 Taming requirement I assume also means that to control (i.e. to transfer to), it is necessary a character with at last 84.0 Animal Taming. Animal Lore skill level is not important to transfer Shadow Hounds to (so as to use extra Stable room...) ?

This is important because it would make it faster to only bring Animal Taming to 84 for 1 or 2 characters and not need to have to also do it for Animal Lore.

In order to transfer it the recipient tamer must have a control chance above 0%. 

https://www.uo-cah.com/pet-control-chance

So a tamer will need a combination of taming and lore to achieve that.  If you have a very low control chance the odds are transferring successfully decrease and it will most likely take multiple attempts to successfully transfer.  

As for what to look for:
You do not want:
2 slot
Under 150 stam, only the early ones could have less than 150, so it you are looking for to buy one check for that.  If you are looking to tame one from chests, you don't need to worry about it anymore.

Intensity kind of matters, because you do want higher stat pets, however the most important thing for pack animals is hit points and resists (physical and fire being priority) 

5 pack is the best bang for the buck.  However, how useful those are depends on your template, ability as a tamer and your playstyle.  You do not want to substitute other canine for one as they have lower dex or are higher slot. You want a pack of five Shadow Hounds.  

Pack instinct appears to be some sort of a buff and you will need to refresh it by having your pack attack again (all kill) or the damage bonus falls off after about a minute. 

Packs aren't for everyone but used right they can be very beneficial and they can be used in end game content.  Also remember you can use the taming mastery as one to split the damage between the pack as opposed to one animal taking all the damage, this can synergize well with bard songs.

popps said:

Violet said:

popps said:

So, the 84.0 Taming requirement I assume also means that to control (i.e. to transfer to), it is necessary a character with at last 84.0 Animal Taming. Animal Lore skill level is not important to transfer Shadow Hounds to (so as to use extra Stable room...) ?

This is important because it would make it faster to only bring Animal Taming to 84 for 1 or 2 characters and not need to have to also do it for Animal Lore.

In order to transfer it the recipient tamer must have a control chance above 0%. 

https://www.uo-cah.com/pet-control-chance

So a tamer will need a combination of taming and lore to achieve that.  If you have a very low control chance the odds are transferring successfully decrease and it will most likely take multiple attempts to successfully transfer.  

As for what to look for:
You do not want:
2 slot
Under 150 stam, only the early ones could have less than 150, so it you are looking for to buy one check for that.  If you are looking to tame one from chests, you don't need to worry about it anymore.

Intensity kind of matters, because you do want higher stat pets, however the most important thing for pack animals is hit points and resists (physical and fire being priority) 

5 pack is the best bang for the buck.  However, how useful those are depends on your template, ability as a tamer and your playstyle.  You do not want to substitute other canine for one as they have lower dex or are higher slot. You want a pack of five Shadow Hounds.  

Pack instinct appears to be some sort of a buff and you will need to refresh it by having your pack attack again (all kill) or the damage bonus falls off after about a minute. 

Packs aren't for everyone but used right they can be very beneficial and they can be used in end game content.  Also remember you can use the taming mastery as one to split the damage between the pack as opposed to one animal taking all the damage, this can synergize well with bard songs.

@ Violet

That was good information, thank you.

One thing I do not understand about your advice, though...

You indicate that a 5 pack is the most advisable option (best bang for the buck), I imagine to fully benefit from the highest pack damage bonus yet, you then also indicate that intensity matters...

Now, while I do understand that high hit points and high physical/fire resists were clearly wanted stats, as well as a stamina 150 or higher, I still do not understand what is the point of searching for "across the board" high intensity Shadow Hounds (other then for those specific stats) when they would not get trained since, when using a pack of 5, they would remain at slot 1 and not reach the max possible 3 slots through training.

By the way, do pets staying at slot 1 go through any training " at all ", or are they basically used as they get tamed with, no training whatsoever done with them ?

I suppose someone has to state the obvious, it might as well be me.

You train their skills to GM.

Petra_Fyde said:

I suppose someone has to state the obvious, it might as well be me.

You train their skills to GM.

I'd say the opposite.. since u cannot train them; their original intensity is way more important.. since u cannot compensate for anything.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Here's the stat range i've seen so far.

Hits: 150-200
Stamina: 145-150
Mana: 185-210
STR: 225-270
DEX: 145-165
INT: 185-210

RESISTS
Physical: 55-65
Fire: 35-45
Cold: 45-65
Poison: 25-35
Energy: 25-35

If i'm doing my own pack I want at least:
Hits: 150-200  191
Stamina: 145-150  150
Mana: 185-210  
STR: 225-270  255
DEX: 145-165  165 (you can overcap pass 150 dex for his movement speed, GREAT for PvP)
INT: 185-210

RESISTS
Physical: 55-65
Fire: 35-45
Cold: 45-65
Poison: 25-35
Energy 25-35    (overall resist minus 7-12 from perfection and if possible most of those point                                                                coming from cold resist)

But i'm a picky dude.. it can take monthss to get what u want.. u'd need to get 5 specimen like that, if u ask me.

Just to make sure do not mix trainable intensity and intensity on CAH.. my goal for a PvP pack would be almost perfect instensity wich mean (in my case) ignore mana/int and cold resist if all other stats can be almost perfect it's a keeper..

Now if u want PvE only.. u can ignore the 165 dex (if your pack almost teleport on your target it changes nothing for PvE) so 150 dex for swing speed is what u want.. for PvP u'd NEED those poison and energy to be 35 cuz of consecrate weapon.. u can ignore it for PvE (depending of the content u doing with your pack)


But yeah.. your mindset ain't it.. u seems to think since u don't invest any powerscroll and such in them u can neglect their intensity.. when it should be the opposite, since u can't compensate for their flaws.

Edit: refer to violet comment if you're not planning to use them for PvP and only high end PvE.

EX:


Like here for a rune beetle going under training the plan was to have almost perfect DEX and POISON (170 and 126) cuz they cannot train those part.. do not neglect what u cannot train.. it should be the opposite.
PS: I also needed it to be the closest to 75% poison resist as possible.

KroDuK said:

I'd say the opposite.. since u cannot train them; their original intensity is way more important.. since u cannot compensate for anything.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Here's the stat range i've seen so far.

Hits: 150-200
Stamina: 145-150
Mana: 185-210
STR: 225-270
DEX: 145-165
INT: 185-210

RESISTS
Physical: 55-65
Fire: 35-45
Cold: 45-65
Poison: 25-35
Energy: 25-35

If i'm doing my own pack I want at least:
Hits: 150-200  191
Stamina: 145-150  150
Mana: 185-210  
STR: 225-270  255
DEX: 145-165  165 (you can overcap pass 150 dex for his movement speed, GREAT for PvP)
INT: 185-210

RESISTS
Physical: 55-65
Fire: 35-45
Cold: 45-65
Poison: 25-35
Energy 25-35    (overall resist minus 7-12 from perfection and if possible most of those point                                                                coming from cold resist)

But i'm a picky dude.. it can take monthss to get what u want.. u'd need to get 5 specimen like that, if u ask me.

Just to make sure do not mix trainable intensity and intensity on CAH.. my goal for a PvP pack would be almost perfect instensity wich mean (in my case) ignore mana/int and cold resist if all other stats can be almost perfect it's a keeper..

Now if u want PvE only.. u can ignore the 165 dex (if your pack almost teleport on your target it changes nothing for PvE) so 150 dex for swing speed is what u want.. for PvP u'd NEED those poison and energy to be 35 cuz of consecrate weapon.. u can ignore it for PvE (depending of the content u doing with your pack)


But yeah.. your mindset ain't it.. u seems to think since u don't invest any powerscroll and such in them u can neglect their intensity.. when it should be the opposite, since u can't compensate for their flaws.

Edit: refer to violet comment if you're not planning to use them for PvP and only high end PvE.

EX:


Like here for a rune beetle going under training the plan was to have almost perfect DEX and POISON (170 and 126) cuz they cannot train those part.. do not neglect what u cannot train.. it should be the opposite.
PS: I also needed it to be the closest to 75% poison resist as possible.

A third one, came out with a whopping 67,85% intensity yet, its stats are 175 Hits, 150 Stamina, 204 Mana, 269 Strength, 153 Dex, 204 Int and Resistances Physical 57%, Fire 41%, Cold 52%, Poison 35% and Energy 25%. Hits might be similar to the 1st Hound yet, Physical is lower and Fire close. But the Intensity as one can see, is quite higher for the 3rd one as compared to the 1st one... much better intensity, but not a much better Shadow Hound if one looks at the stats that matter...

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

I see.. i'm not using that % make sense then.. to me a PvE keeper would be 65+45+65+35+35= 245.. at least 230 total resist with MINIMUM 185 HP 150 dex and 250 str... under that i wouldn't waste time training them..

they too weak to worth your time, imo.. except if u have a very niche use/content for them.

popps said:

the stats that matter...

To answer this thing for PvE you should look at; high end boss u plan to use them on, with low physical resist that u can manage with your pack.. assuming u only want to focus on physical and fire resist is not optimal. imo.. this is good for the Paiwan of this world, not the top optimize pack..
and anything under 190hp .. make it 185 if you are not zealous, should be scrap.. it's a real headach to deal with a pack.

But yeah, I get what you mean but for ex: poison/energy/cold resist ain't a waste.. it all depend on what you are planning to use them on.. only int/mana for the shadow hounds is really neglectable.

My general rules as someone who don't use the tool you are for the intensity % for an untrainable melee pet like a shadow hound or a cu sidh was minus 7-12 overall resist from perfection.. 5-10 HP from perfection with a maximum of dex... if not.. they're no keeper.

You do you tho.. but something sure 171 HP is mediocre.

Pawain said:

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

popps said:

Pawain said:

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

So, if I understand what you are saying, the Shadow Hounds just introduced in the game have basically no use for anything ?

If so, why would the Developers have wasted their time to make them available and players' time to get them for pets which will hardly be used for any hunt ?

It's a very small niche pet no need to over think

popps said:

Pawain said:

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

So, if I understand what you are saying, the Shadow Hounds just introduced in the game have basically no use for anything ?

If so, why would the Developers have wasted their time to make them available and players' time to get them for pets which will hardly be used for any hunt ?

How about you try them and see FFS

popps said:

Pawain said:

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

So, if I understand what you are saying, the Shadow Hounds just introduced in the game have basically no use for anything ?

If so, why would the Developers have wasted their time to make them available and players' time to get them for pets which will hardly be used for any hunt ?

They melted those MoE gates.  They worked as intended.  You do know 1 slot pets have been a round many years.  Glad you finally have learned they have a small use categories.

The more important question, is why are you wasting so much time messing and writing about these instead of getting drops from the event that will soon end?

Pawain said:

The more important question, is why are you wasting so much time messing and writing about these instead of getting drops from the event that will soon end?

You good Paiwan?

Do you want to share something with us?
This is a safe space..

Grimbeard said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

So, if I understand what you are saying, the Shadow Hounds just introduced in the game have basically no use for anything ?

If so, why would the Developers have wasted their time to make them available and players' time to get them for pets which will hardly be used for any hunt ?

It's a very small niche pet no need to over think

Seriously though, as a non tamer, this is why I am not a tamer.
The equivalent knowledge for crafters has effectively been lost in time.

popps said:

It sure is a problem for a Tamer to walk a pack of pets through a spawn... it is already a pain to walk not mountable pets dragging along, for example, a dungeon, imagine doing that with a pack of 5 pets all getting aggroed by the spawn as one walks or runs around...

The Developers should really introduce something to facilitate the use of pack pets in UO...

The first idea that come to mind is use your pack with a partner.. let him open the road while spamming his paperdoll.. this is the beauty of a sandbox.. the good stuff u need to work for it.

PS: personally i'm lazy and legit.. so I would open the way on my paladin spamming holy light.
As for pet control.. this is WAY, wayyyy more easier to have them follow you than it was.

KroDuK said:

Pawain said:

The more important question, is why are you wasting so much time messing and writing about these instead of getting drops from the event that will soon end?

You good Paiwan?

Do you want to share something with us?
This is a safe space..

Nope.  I'm still getting drops.  Have to equip 8 toons that will transfer from NL to a shard in prodo, they will be glad to have nice items.

I was given 5 shadow hounds, they were bonded and will sit in the stables until something that does not change target and damages pets very little comes out to use them on.

Pawain said:

KroDuK said:

Pawain said:

The more important question, is why are you wasting so much time messing and writing about these instead of getting drops from the event that will soon end?

You good Paiwan?

Do you want to share something with us?
This is a safe space..

Nope.  I'm still getting drops.  Have to equip 8 toons

I was given 5 shadow hounds

make sense now.. stll have to grind a main event design to bribe the bots and their frame skippers.. it explain the bad mood!

The world doesn't revolve around you.. if u were given and accepted the first 5 weaker specimen u were presented.. do not pull everyone down to your level.

You shame him for not knowing stuff and shaming him for learning the stuff you don't... pick a lane.

PS: I lied, this is not a safe space.

popps said:

Grimbeard said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

So, if I understand what you are saying, the Shadow Hounds just introduced in the game have basically no use for anything ?

If so, why would the Developers have wasted their time to make them available and players' time to get them for pets which will hardly be used for any hunt ?

It's a very small niche pet no need to over think

It sure is a problem for a Tamer to walk a pack of pets through a spawn... it is already a pain to walk not mountable pets dragging along, for example, a dungeon, imagine doing that with a pack of 5 pets all getting aggroed by the spawn as one walks or runs around...

The Developers should really introduce something to facilitate the use of pack pets in UO...

You want a pack you can ride??? 

He'll learn to use some stuff soon enough.. like u still can leave your pack at home.. run to your location and log out/in and voilà.. if you need to PvP on a champ spawn u just need to honor your ass while swinging bolas.

I am VERY surprised of how little strength affect their damage.. thanks for the info.
So we can add str to the list with int/mana for stats u don't look to be almost perfect. (238str)

KroDuK said:

Pawain said:

KroDuK said:

Pawain said:

The more important question, is why are you wasting so much time messing and writing about these instead of getting drops from the event that will soon end?

You good Paiwan?

Do you want to share something with us?
This is a safe space..

Nope.  I'm still getting drops.  Have to equip 8 toons

I was given 5 shadow hounds

make sense now.. stll have to grind a main event design to bribe the bots and their frame skippers.. it explain the bad mood!

The world doesn't revolve around you.. if u were given and accepted the first 5 weaker specimen u were presented.. do not pull everyone down to your level.

You shame him for not knowing stuff and shaming him for learning the stuff you don't... pick a lane.

PS: I lied, this is not a safe space.

Ya taming a dog is so difficult.  So you lored the ones I was given, or you just make up stuff?  I don't have room for junk in my stables.

bro.. u legit have a fully built archer with 110 archery and like 75.8 resist.. how can u care that much about your stable and neglect your toons that much at the same time.. PICK A LANE!

PS: you really missing out on the power of that shadow pack.. on paper this is unreal.. without even considering THE ONE mastery nor the bard partner.

Like if the game was not in such a bad state and worth to be played.. I would mess around with a tamer no using vet.. and try to cheese on a ninja T. for a 6 pack.. always dreamt of having a 6 pack. 

KroDuK said:

bro.. u legit have a fully built archer with 110 archery and like 75.8 resist.. how can u care that much about your stable and neglect your toons that much at the same time.. PICK A LANE!

PS: you really missing out on the power of that shadow pack.. on paper this is unreal.. without even considering THE ONE mastery nor the bard partner.

I'll put the archers drops per hour up against your archers.  What shard? He can travel. 

It's all about luck and damage. 

Paiwan be like:



You're a feather weight bro.

So that's a no huh.  All talk no play.  I expected as much.  

Just like 1 slot pets have a build for a special encounter.  So does my luck archer.

If u can't read between the lines.. u got baited.. I was ready with the Six Pac meme.

Joke is on you.. my archer is freaking RED and necro.. I win u lose.. your archer is dead before u even can collect your first artifact.

Get schooled. 

Edit:


Notice her name.. and the capital letters.
Also, I don't make stuff up u were given inferior DEX specimen during the invasion.. u dumb dumb.

Grimbeard said:

popps said:

Grimbeard said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

You sure are spending a lot of time analying pets that you would only use on the MoE gates that are not around anymore.  Or Generals from town invasions, also not around any more.  

How long before you think they will make another object in the game that does little damage to pets and does not switch targets?  Well you will be prepared for it in 2030 I suppose.  In the 27 years of UO, we have had two of those things...

So, if I understand what you are saying, the Shadow Hounds just introduced in the game have basically no use for anything ?

If so, why would the Developers have wasted their time to make them available and players' time to get them for pets which will hardly be used for any hunt ?

It's a very small niche pet no need to over think

It sure is a problem for a Tamer to walk a pack of pets through a spawn... it is already a pain to walk not mountable pets dragging along, for example, a dungeon, imagine doing that with a pack of 5 pets all getting aggroed by the spawn as one walks or runs around...

The Developers should really introduce something to facilitate the use of pack pets in UO...

You want a pack you can ride??? 

Violet said:

To find out jut how important strength is we have: https://www.uo-cah.com/pet-damage-calculator

You need to account for pet damage is PvP is halved and UO rounds down when it comes to calculations.

At 61 or 70 resists anything 238 strength or above with be doing top damage unless you find a "unicorn" 275 strength one for pvm.  From what I know of Popps he does not PvP, if he did I think there would be many other posts on this forum~

Example of Shadow Hounds pre and post Grasping Claw in PvP:

For the Hit Point/Resists:

Example:

A 400 strength, 100 tactics, 100 anatomy attacker with 100 wrestling and 100 physical damage on two different resisted shadow hounds:

Shadow Hound A  190 hit points and 55% physical resists gets hit for 27-36

Shadow Hound B  160 hit points and 65% physical resists gets hit for 21-28

It would take 4 hits to for those resists on Shadow Hound B to outweigh the added hit points of Shadow Hound A.

On the mob in question above it would be an added 140-160 damage per minute (at a 50% hit rate, for these calculations I simplified and did not include parry chance) to Shadow Hound A vs Shadow Hound B.

There is a lot of nuance in the conversation regarding hit points and resists. There are things like environmental damage. You want enough hit points to keep the pack alive. 

I see Pawain still has his bad takes on taming.

Also @ popps If you have questions about our website we have a public discord you can join to ask those questions: https://discord.gg/ta26pT63qb .  We rarely read these forums unless someone DMs us to check something out, so these forums aren't the place to ask things regarding our website. If you don't have discord, you can private message us on these forums.

popps said:

I did understand your comment about the 160 hit points Shadow Hound B but with better physical resist taking 4 more hits from the target to outweight the added hit points that Shadow Hound A but with worse physical resist has... what I did not understand, is the second part of your comment where you say "On the mob in question above it would be an added 140-160 damage per minute (at a 50% hit rate, for these calculations I simplified and did not include parry chance) to Shadow Hound A vs Shadow Hound B."

They were saying on the mob A u'd take 140-160 more dmg per minute.. with a high hit rate against the pack; miss one then land one.. and it has 0 parrying.. it was to emphasis on how important is the intensity and how dumb it is to just focus on few things; like HP/phy/fire/dex (take the time to find good & well balanced intensity specimen).. cuz few seconds after the engage the resists are your sustain... once again it all depend on how you are using them, for what, with whom.

You fishing for the cheat code but there is a tons of nuance.. personally I would ignore int/mana, I want 238 STR (minimum and not too much.. to not waste good RNG intensity points) while neglecting cold resist.. the rest I want it near perfection.

PS: I could be wrong for int/mana.. I hvn't tested.. but in my mind 5 pet with the lowest mana; 185 each and the only thing they got that cost mana is grasping claw (30 mana cost).. on paper it looks solid.. maybe i'm wrong but i doubt it.. If i am u want INT for the regen on your PvE pack.

As for the weak hound.. u can make hide from them 
Edit: as for the lesser pack; I already given my opinion.. would u eat your own limb? i'm pretty sure u could find 1-2 good reasons to reduce your pack numbers.. but u'd have to tell me why before asking for a stew recipe... till then keep those 5 limbs.

KroDuK said:

Energy 25-35    (overall resist minus 7-12 from perfection and if possible most of those point                                                                coming from cold resist)

KroDuK said:

I want 238 STR (minimum and not too much.. to not waste good RNG intensity points) while neglecting cold resist.. the rest I want it near perfection.

@PlayerSkillFTW that is some solid pro tips.. I was not aware about the "bug" with wither & essence of wind with as one mastery.

It's very good to know but to be fair it wouldn't change my mind set for a PvP Pack.. I was more scared of the PvE heroes.. those PvPers could use on their spawn like sampire with consecrate weapon, whirl wind and parrying.. in my mind PvP wise for a necro to stand and wither my pac he'd need parrying and a necro (or spellweaver) with parrying except the sampire u don't see them really often.. call me crazy, but my first PvP pack I would stick to this plan.

Hopefully popps read your post tho.. a lot of pro (experienced) tips.


Personally i only messed with a pack by using a 5 frenzied ostard at yew fel gate (mostly to troll) back in the days ~2005 or the double fire steed for barracoon (I believe u could cheese the pack with an imp from spellweaver in the early days; they would take only 1 slot unlike the tamed one.. maybe i'm wrong)

Very interesting use of the wolf spyder.. good stuff, thx!

PS: I talk and all that.. but even if the game was in a better state (not pro cheat engine; for us by us) and worth to invest time/ play the game.. I would not use a shadow hound pack for the simple reason.. I don't have access to those mastery without ToL. 

And I wouldn't touch my tamer for a WHILE; for the simple fact i'm still salty i couldn't get access to those sexy bear 200 artifacts cuz of them cheaters killing the vibe... i was working on them before I give up on Boardsword main content the first week of dec. (event design to bribe the cheaters).. had 138 artifacts at home.. I won't even take the time to go claim other shard bound/heresy with those.. wich is a shame and sad.. but hey.. i'm not giving up, it's only fueling me.. things gonna change for the worse or the better.. but they going to change in 2025.

No, I would like, for example ( @ Kyronix? ), a special Crystal Ball of "pack" pets summoning that works anywhere and can summon "all" pets in a pack once the Tamer gets to the Hunting location so as not to make it a nightmare to try walk an entire pack through various spawn aggroing all individual pets in that pack... and this special Crystal Ball of pack pets summoning should also work to send back the pets into the stables once the hunting is done so as not to have to walk them out from the hunting ground gaving to walk them through a variety of spawn aggroing all the various pets in the pack.

Furthermore, I think this as something much needed also because it is ridicolous, to my opinion, that a Tamer using 5 Shadow Hounds, for example, needs to have 5 Crystal Balls of pets' summoning in one's own backpack...

Or some other tool that would basically help UO tamers the same with the handling of their pack pets.

do you want a god mode button as well?

wow 5 slots for the pet balls? outrageous, unacceptable

give it a rest

only 1 crappy tamer will be running these crappy pets and that's you

Where you running to?

Where could you possibly want to take these that a Cu could not do instead?


I se it now

ALL KILL, ALL KILL, panic, ALL KILL, ALL FOLLOW ME, ALL KILL

dirt nap


how about instant invis for the agro mobs?

don't forget you will need 5 buttons for commanding each pet individually

if you are ALL KILLING then it really is a crappy way to run this don't you think?

I guess you need a special belt now of the pet balls 

WORST........TAMER........EVER

this VETERAN obviously does not know about pet logging!

lol, I ignored that post.. like he ignored mine addressing this problem before he did this post. (play with someone leading the way or just leave the pack at home, go where u want to go and log out/in; aka pet logging)

To leave, you still can find a quiet spot; all stay.. invis them if u want to go back home; log out/in.. or simply recall if u can.. wich I assume he can by not hunting in Fel Dungeons.

He's pretty much asking for the dev to nerf the pack leader template after making it easier/ more casual to play.. some good stuff shouldn't be user friendly on a sandbox. (like the sappire was before SA)

Edit: fun fact without the rework on pet AI (easier to control) My runebeetle would have eaten my ass a couple time already; when I was farming hide in Ice Dungeon and training the beetle.  
I would have blame the general chat without the rework.

KroDuK said:

lol, I ignored that post.. like he ignored mine addressing this problem before he did this post. (play with someone leading the way or just leave the pack at home, go where u want to go and log out/in; aka pet logging)

To leave, you still can find a quiet spot; all stay.. invis them if u want to go back home; log out/in.. or simply recall if u can.. wich I assume he can by not hunting in Fel Dungeons.

He's pretty much asking for the dev to nerf the pack leader template after making it easier/ more casual to play.. some good stuff shouldn't be user friendly on a sandbox. (like the sappire was before SA)

Edit: fun fact without the rework on pet AI (easier to control) My runebeetle would have eaten my ass a couple time already; when I was farming hide in Ice Dungeon and training the beetle.  
I would have blame the general chat without the rework.

The bears were selling for 105 on Atlantic 

Yup, I bought two on Atlantic for 100M each, one got turned into an Ethy and came to LS.  The other will stay there for a future tamer from NL.

Meh.. I was doing 80-100 artifact a day at the begin.. after ~8-9 days of non sense on Felucca.. I hvn't played the game since.. the initial plan was to farm 5+ bears, at least!.. I was in middle of doing that (138 artifacts in bags at home for the tamer to trade) when I realised how sad the MAIN content UO has to offer under BS is and protest.. it's a shame.. cuz I was having a good time bashing undead during the invasion.

I'm not paying any money for what I can farm.. plus had fun to farm and was fairly fast to acquire.

KroDuK said:

And I wouldn't touch my tamer for a WHILE; for the simple fact i'm still salty i couldn't get access to those sexy bear 200 artifacts cuz of them cheaters killing the vibe... i was working on them before I give up on Boardsword main content the first week of dec. (event design to bribe the cheaters).. had 138 artifacts at home.. I won't even take the time to go claim other shard bound/heresy with those.. wich is a shame and sad.. but hey.. i'm not giving up, it's only fueling me.. things gonna change for the worse or the better.. but they going to change in 2025.

The Solen Caves were surprisingly devoid of most scripters (even on Atlantic), so i was able to rack up a lot of Artifacts and get all the rewards i wanted with my Swords Sampire on two shards. I just had another char parked outside the Lich Fields Solen Hive waiting to rez my ass if i died.

JackFlashUk said:

No, I would like, for example ( @ Kyronix? ), a special Crystal Ball of "pack" pets summoning that works anywhere and can summon "all" pets in a pack once the Tamer gets to the Hunting location so as not to make it a nightmare to try walk an entire pack through various spawn aggroing all individual pets in that pack... and this special Crystal Ball of pack pets summoning should also work to send back the pets into the stables once the hunting is done so as not to have to walk them out from the hunting ground gaving to walk them through a variety of spawn aggroing all the various pets in the pack.

Furthermore, I think this as something much needed also because it is ridicolous, to my opinion, that a Tamer using 5 Shadow Hounds, for example, needs to have 5 Crystal Balls of pets' summoning in one's own backpack...

Or some other tool that would basically help UO tamers the same with the handling of their pack pets.

do you want a god mode button as well?

wow 5 slots for the pet balls? outrageous, unacceptable

give it a rest

only 1 crappy tamer will be running these crappy pets and that's you

Where you running to?

Where could you possibly want to take these that a Cu could not do instead?


I se it now

ALL KILL, ALL KILL, panic, ALL KILL, ALL FOLLOW ME, ALL KILL

dirt nap


how about instant invis for the agro mobs?

don't forget you will need 5 buttons for commanding each pet individually

if you are ALL KILLING then it really is a crappy way to run this don't you think?

I guess you need a special belt now of the pet balls 

WORST........TAMER........EVER

this VETERAN obviously does not know about pet logging!

only 1 crappy tamer will be running these crappy pets and that's you

KroDuK said:

lol, I ignored that post.. like he ignored mine addressing this problem before he did this post. (play with someone leading the way or just leave the pack at home, go where u want to go and log out/in; aka pet logging)

To leave, you still can find a quiet spot; all stay.. invis them if u want to go back home; log out/in.. or simply recall if u can.. wich I assume he can by not hunting in Fel Dungeons.

He's pretty much asking for the dev to nerf the pack leader template after making it easier/ more casual to play.. some good stuff shouldn't be user friendly on a sandbox. (like the sappire was before SA)

Edit: fun fact without the rework on pet AI (easier to control) My runebeetle would have eaten my ass a couple time already; when I was farming hide in Ice Dungeon and training the beetle.  
I would have blame the general chat without the rework.

To leave, you still can find a quiet spot; all stay.. invis them if u want to go back home; log out/in.. or simply recall if u can.. wich I assume he can by not hunting in Fel Dungeons.

popps said:

Are you perhaps saying that Shadow Hounds are crappy pets and that only inexperienced UO Tamers would be interested in using them ?

Well, I seem to understand, from his very good and informative posts, that, for example, @ PlayerSkillFTW seems to have an interest and is using these pack pets and I consider him one of the most and best experienced and knowledged UO players browsing these official Forums... whenever he write something about UO and its mechanics it is always very well knowledged and on spot.

Perhaps, just perhaps, if he has interest in Shadow Hounds these pets might be far from "crappy" ?

I'd love to hear what PlayerSkillFTW thinks about this new tameable... do you consider them crappy ?

Pets usually don't die at Travesty, I wonder how a pack would do there in a group.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

popps said:

Are you perhaps saying that Shadow Hounds are crappy pets and that only inexperienced UO Tamers would be interested in using them ?

Well, I seem to understand, from his very good and informative posts, that, for example, @ PlayerSkillFTW seems to have an interest and is using these pack pets and I consider him one of the most and best experienced and knowledged UO players browsing these official Forums... whenever he write something about UO and its mechanics it is always very well knowledged and on spot.

Perhaps, just perhaps, if he has interest in Shadow Hounds these pets might be far from "crappy" ?

I'd love to hear what PlayerSkillFTW thinks about this new tameable... do you consider them crappy ?

Shadow Hounds are the top tier pack pet. Pack pets have their uses in dishing out extremely high damage against certain foes, mainly ones that don't do much AoE and are somewhat vulnerable to the pack pet's damage type. Would i use a Shadow Hound pack against a high HP boss with 90 Physical Resist and/or frequent high AoE damage (like the Stygian Dragon)? No. But there are plenty of bosses and mobs that fall within the range of what a Shadow Hound pack is suitable for and excel at.

When using a pack, remember that the first (or earliest) pet you pull out of the stables, is usually the one that tanks the enemy when giving the "All Kill" command (assuming the first pet doesn't disobey the command). So you want to pull out your tankiest Shadow Hound from the stables first, especially considering the damage split by "As One" is based upon the damage that would've been taken by the tanking pet.

Example 1

Shadow Hound A has 65 Physical Resist, and gets hit with a 100 damage (before resists) Physical attack, it's reduced to 35 damage by resists, and with "As One" is split between all 5 Shadow Hounds, so all 5 Shadow Hounds take 7 damage.

Example 2

Shadow Hound B has 55 Physical Resist, and gets hit with a 100 damage (before resists) Physical attack, it's reduced to 45 damage by resists, then "As One" splits it between all 5 Shadow Hounds, so all 5 Shadow Hounds take 9 damage.

With Shadow Hound B tanking, the pack would be taking about 28% more damage than with Shadow Hound A tanking.

When using a pack, remember that the first (or earliest) pet you pull out of the stables, is usually the one that tanks the enemy when giving the "All Kill" command (assuming the first pet doesn't disobey the command). So you want to pull out your tankiest Shadow Hound from the stables first, especially considering the damage split by "As One" is based upon the damage that would've been taken by the tanking pet.

Pawain said:

Pets usually don't die at Travesty, I wonder how a pack would do there in a group.

popps said:

does this mean that, since we have 5 resistances, Physical, Fire, Cold, Poison and Energy, and we can have 5 Shadow Hounds in a pack, it could be a good and effective idea to have 5 Shadow Hounds in the pack each being maxed out in one of those 5 resistances

On paper that sound like a solid and clever idea.

PS: personally for the poison and energy i'd try to combine these two with another perfect resist.. to have 3 different pack leader at most.. keep in mind this is a headache to lead a pack.. to start making it over complicate with 5 different leader.. try to reduce that number.. my first thought would be to merge the 2 weakest resist with another one.. and make sure to read his comment about that cold "bug" the cold leader would work for melee dmg type but not if he uses those AoE spells player mention.

But yeah.. once more u trying to go for a cheat code (all around) on a very niche template.. niche template are made for niche content.. overall tho.. I dig your idea.. it could work.. not optimal but gj.



Edit: to make sure u understand what I mean.. take example on the nightmare dmg type:


Clever idea, but the cheat code does not exist (specific stats for an all around pack leader template)
The 3 leader would be nearly perfect phy/fire.. then perfect cold.. copy pasta for poison.. copy pasta for energy. (when i was talking about merging) type of stuff.
Focusing on one single perfect resist even on a high intensity specimen ain't optimal.. but it's clever and could work.. depending on your toon skills/build, how you're playing and what niche use/content u doing.

Remember, Shadow Hounds will stop spawning when Pub 119 launches, so get them while you can!

I cannot be bribe..

Let me know when BS fix their poo poo.. game is unplayable on Felucca and those MAIN event is such a shame.. y'all are too deep.. take a 2 week break/vacation to play something else then join me on the picket line.

I'll be on BnS NEO starting the 25th..

5 pack of Shadow Hounds (all fully skill trained) under "As One" and Inspire+Invigorate, was able to effortlessly kill a discorded Allosaurus in 2 mins and 1 second (faster than any 5 slot pet that's also under Inspire+Invigorate). Each Shadow Hound was biting for about 70 damage, and an additional 30-40 when they'd use Grasping Claw.
Introducing "Rune Corruption" into the mix on another Allosaurus, resulted in each Shadow Hound dishing out 100 damage per bite (and there's 5 of them...) when RC was active.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

5 pack of Shadow Hounds (all fully skill trained) under "As One" and Inspire+Invigorate, was able to effortlessly kill a discorded Allosaurus in 2 mins and 1 second (faster than any 5 slot pet that's also under Inspire+Invigorate). Each Shadow Hound was biting for about 70 damage, and an additional 30-40 when they'd use Grasping Claw.
Introducing "Rune Corruption" into the mix on another Allosaurus, resulted in each Shadow Hound dishing out 100 damage per bite (and there's 5 of them...) when RC was active.

There is all your definitive answers popps 

actually, I want to see his findings from all the testing and research he has been doing

Popps

show us your tamer template as per previous requests

and what have you got ready to teach us about your journey with the pets?


let me guess

SOD ALL???????????

The shadow hounds munch thru the runestones at the spawn very quickly.

The devs put things in the game that fit the arc they come from.