Nerf Sampires

Are you sure I said that?  Sounds more intelligent than my normal writing style.

Turn back on Tainted life leech on paras is good enough.  

I play a tamer year round, but have to use other templates to get fat lootz during this event.

Pawain said:

Turn back on Tainted life leech on paras is good enough.  

As much as i'm bothered by sampie bots and the improper balance.. This is not a viable solution in my opinion. This is just an heresy to another heresy.. multi-heretic layers.


Personally a very unpopular opinion i believe.. vampire as beast/lich/wraith, should not be able to be mounted.. the things that would kill my old sappire; at gauntlet: only a double oath.. or freaking ranged mobs on a champ spawn for example, cuz I was on foot; adding delay between me and my meals/travelling time.

To me it always made sense being that OP and being that vulnerable (on foot)
Like do not remove them their god like power.. just make them vulnerable.. like a zerker class.
You could also make use of animated dead like an animal form window for vampire to summon limited mount. (trying to slow them at least)

PS: also nerf tamers  

Quit trying to nurf my fighter, Pawain.  I don’t want to be punished for players kiting 6 characters or for bots. There’s plenty of samps out there that don’t do either of those things. 

LilyGrace said:

Quit trying to nurf my fighter, Pawain.  I don’t want to be punished for players kiting 6 characters or for bots. There’s plenty of samps out there that don’t do either of those things. 

Would only affect players attacking Paragons.  

Sampies cannot kite 6 guys ^^

It's a simple matter of fact they are broken.. no more resources management.. they can even eliminate timing with protection while also beating it with heretic items; overcapping everything.

You just need to give samp a small vulnerability and look how it goes.. i'd say to make it fun to play, some could say to not be totally brain dead.

They'd still have an easy mode.. they just need a flaw. (the anti leech mechanics in event is an EASY fix.. ain't a fair one imo.)

Pawain said:

Turn back on Tainted life leech on paras is good enough. 

KroDuK said:
Personally a very unpopular opinion i believe.. vampire as beast/lich/wraith, should not be able to be mounted..

KroDuK said:

i'd say to make it fun to play, some could say to not be totally brain dead.

They'd still have an easy mode.. they just need a flaw. (the anti leech mechanics in event is an EASY fix.. ain't a fair one imo.)

Is this a thread about sampires or is this a thread about having a blessed bag of regs?

Macrophage said:

Is this a thread about sampires or is this a thread about having a blessed bag of regs?

Lord_Nythrax said:

"The proper way to nerf the abomination known as sampire is to make necro leeches scale off spirt speak also negative and positive karma spell should damage the opposite" -- Grimbeard

"Curse Weapon was a perfect balance.. u need to actually cast the spell (fizzle) without SS the lenght is just ridiculous.. casting tons of curse weapon lower the karma just enough to make the pally healing and cure worthless.." -- Kroduk

"Sampire should not exist as it is.   The amount of returned HP should scale with Spirit Speak. The HP returned should also reduce as Chivalry is inceased" -- Pawain

---------------------------------------------

I unironically support all of the above.

Admittedly it's not exactly a selfless position on my part since I already run a no-chiv sampire with spirit speak just because I happen to like it that way, but it is a bit less strong than the standard meta sampire build and deals less well with certain specific situations. I'm not an expert on the current high-end chiv melee meta, but I do think it's possible to arrive an an equilibrium where both builds are at least generally equally viable.

I really wish someone from the development team would talk about this out loud. For like twenty years now the subject has been shrouded in a sort of baffling silence, where obvious nerfs are never made and instead they just slap leech immunity on to the occasional mob, like being OP part of the time and worthless other times averages out to being balanced.

I have a sneaking suspicion that part of it is thus: If they made these changes, sure the Average Joe Sampire would be able to pick up spirit speak instead of chivalry, but they'd be stuck wearing a dexer suit with no LRC and need to carry necro reagents. Nobody wants to carry regs, and asking every sampire to replace their suit is viewed as too great a demand.

If that is the case, then I think they should just add a weightless insurable reagent sack and call it a day. Nobody actually likes LRC, they just hate carrying reagents so much that they're willing to nerf their suits over it. It's a convenience stat, so just give everyone the convenience and call it a day. I already wear a dexer suit with LRC since I like using my necro spells, so it's nothing to me either way, although I guess I'd look into a new suit if I didn't really need LRC anymore.

This would actually not fix anything. It would only hurt the players that aren't botting. 

As a returning player who just pieced together a "sampire" I have some serious, real feedback for the sampire hate.

You don't need sampire for this event. My original template was Swords, Tactics, Anatomy, Bushido, Resist Spells, and Healing. With the gear I had and was able to purchase by saving up points on my tamer, I can go toe to toe with every paragon, without VE. The only time I had to bail is when I was attacked by multiple paragons or sometimes against a skeletal horse, which for whatever ungodly reason, have insane fire resists. Now that I have the sword mastery book and onslaught, I can kill horses pretty easily.

Only yesterday did I finish skilling necromancy to 100 and replaced healing with necromancy. The difference in TTK and chance of my death didn't change. Horses are still annoying. In fact, for the majority of a moonglow invasion I didn't even realize I wasn't in vamp form until ~15 minutes before the invasion ended.

I've now swapped out Anatomy for Chiv, and I still do about the same amount of damage by spamming consecrate weapon and just like before having VE active, I rarely ever die unless overwhelmed. My Bushido is also now maxed, so I also seem to parry a LOT more.

So as a returning player, who has tested the event without the use of VE, I find the addition of VE rather lack luster, and to be honest completely negelible. Tonight I may even stone of necro and add anatomy back on. There is nothing VE gives me that can't be covered by something else, and where the leech is nice, once I added VE I was honestly disappointed by the meager amount of improvement it provides. 

VE or Sampires are not the issue here, and if you nerfed sampire, people would just change to the next OP build, probably an archer or dexxer. What needs to change is restrictions on multiple accounts and or botting.

Here is an idea that the 5% of Fel players will hate. Get rid of open PvP in Fel and create specific locations that are designed for PvP. Or even arenas 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc that people can "queue" into. NL is already using a queuing type system. Then, change Fel into a version of tram but its only accessible by paying customers but also make the areas single character play only, and strictly enforce it. Let the bot trains fight over spawn in Tram, while paying players who only want to play one character can play in Fel. Honestly, the Fel players who won't like this idea are probably less interested in PvP and more interested in griefing/player killing, all while calling it "PvP".

Rhel said:

As a returning player who just pieced together a "sampire" I have some serious, real feedback for the sampire hate.

Definitely dont think nerfing anything is a good idea, just create events where all templates have something to offer with the mechanics, it cant be that hard? And stop the botting, its sad logging into a town invasion only to see the same bots doing the same thing 

Lord_Nythrax said:

Rhel said:

As a returning player who just pieced together a "sampire" I have some serious, real feedback for the sampire hate.

If I'm being totally honest about my selfish intentions, I don't really think there's that much wrong. I think most of the sampire hate is from inept players who do goofy shit like fail to cap out their weapon skill or who get offended when a monster is allowed to target them.

But the developers must think sampires are OP... right? Or else they wouldn't think "slap leech immunity on it" is such a clever idea when it comes to monsters. What I really want is for them to create a status quo they can live with and stop acting like being OP sometimes and worthless other times evens out to being balanced.

And if someone is getting nerfed to reach that status quo, I nominate everyone but myself. I'm already running the no-chiv template with spirit speak that these guys think they want everyone to run anyway.

I just feel they should focus their fixes on what the problem actually is, and that's the multi boxers running around on one character with 3 sampires or archers following behind, unmanned. 

One simple fix is to create or change another facet, where it is strictly single boxing and violators will be punished even if they're paying for their accounts. Let the boxers have their lag in Tram, and let paying customers who want to play single characters without lag play on a facet that's ruleset is specifically no unmanned/played characters. 

Or create a new server with this ruleset and allow free character transfers for anyone who wants to play on it. Let the community speak for what they want. If the server is low population, then you'll know that people want to multi box. If a large amount of people move to the server, you'll know a large amount of people don't want to multibox. 

This goes back to the devs determination in finding some way to encourage 95% of the player base to play in Fel. For almost two decades, the majority have spoken through action that no matter what incentives they provide, 95% of the population doesn't enjoy playing in Fel. Yet the devs continually ask "What can we do to get you to play in Fel?" The answer is obvious to 95% of players; turn Fel into Tram v2.0, and anger 5% or less of your (arguably more toxic) player base.

with regards BOTS, maybe they are the ones keeping the game alive by paying with multiple accounts? If this is the case then just simply admit it and we can all move on?

The issues of Sampires and bots aren’t entirely related. While the invincibility of Sampires makes botting easier, there are just as many non-Sampire bots as there are Sampire ones in this event.

Concerning rebalancing Sampires, the suggestions from the OP and others are reasonable, but the ship has sailed. In general, players are so ultra powerful these days that Sampires are mostly overkill anyway.

In discussing Sampires, folks focus on the topic of life leech, but there are more synergies at play that warrant revisiting. For example, Bushido and whirlwind are ubiquitous for PVM melee characters.

I've always been anti samp but Loop is right. 

I was shopping at a vendor house when 1-2-3-4-5 throwers logged on one by one and stacked on each other getting ready to farm. 

Really though if samps are nerfed they'll just multibox other temps and have a separate mage following with a health scan script. 

They need to just cut the head off the snake completely. 

For me Sampire is the most fun template to play in UO (like doing Champion Spawn). Game would not be the same if they nerf it. There is already a lot of content which is not possible on Sampire due to Tainted Life Force.

If I would nerf it I would disallow having Chivalry skill when you have Necromancy. This way Chivalry belongs to Paladins and Necromancy to Sampires. I already dropped Chivalry on my Sampire, it is playable just more problematic where there is no Slayer for Monster. 

And about event on Atlantic I think Sampires loses with Archers, because they are always faster. 

Urge said:

I've always been anti samp but Loop is right. 

I was shopping at a vendor house when 1-2-3-4-5 throwers logged on one by one and stacked on each other getting ready to farm. 

Really though if samps are nerfed they'll just multibox other temps and have a separate mage following with a health scan script. 

They need to just cut the head off the snake completely. 

Kinda irrelevant to this post but on my old sampire I've dropped necro completely and just use some of the new 100% leech weapons. Seems to keep me alive as well if not better than vampire form + extra skill points to add healing and resist spells. Personally I'd support this but seems like we're 20 years a bit late on the nerf and they're not super meta anymore, just a lazy outdated template, so meh.

A lot of coping around.. without loop and urge i was about to lose it ^^

"make other template stronger"  *smh*

You mean make all other template self sustaining for days? no timing nor resource management required for ALL the other templates!? 

sappire before SA.. was OP and balanced.. it was better for super boss than a tamer.. but overall the tamer was superior to do Magic Find.. a sappire for champ spawn shouldn't be a thing.. since sampies suck ass at PvP..
Would u go do a champ spawn on your Magic Finder tamer? If the answer is yes.. I cannot help you on that.
Personally i'd modify my tamer to be less effective PvE wise and capable to hold his ground PvP wise.

Wich is why i wouldn't bring a good balance sappire on a solo champ spawn

Edit: they only way i could kill people on my sappire back then when doing a champ spawn.. was abusing of wraith form (can run through ennemies) and bola by using mobs to get my ennemy stuck.. they couldn't take the heat.. without spawn to keep me alive and help me kill my ennemies.. I was slow and easy to pick on.. a good price to pay to be that OP in PvE..

A samp on a spawn should be like a MF tamer was.. u bring them to clear the spawn and the boss.. but u need to protect them.. like u protect a trammy.. Good PvPer can't do great PvE and the opposite should also be true.

I actually find it offensive that the most basic template is the most powerful ingame.

This is counter intuitive to the entire concept of an MMORPG, and in fact any game or situation on the planet.

{At least with Bots, I can respect the intelligence behind them!!}.

Cookie said:

I actually find it offensive that the most basic template is the most powerful ingame.

This is counter intuitive to the entire concept of an MMORPG, and in fact any game or situation on the planet.

{At least with Bots, I can respect the intelligence behind them!!}.

Imagine, despice a samp control by a human and respect the same sampire if control by AI.

Is there a difference? 

Pawain said:

Is there a difference? 

I can only control and keep alive one samp during this event.. AI can do infinite numbers 24/7.

I don't despice the easy button.. not everyone is try hard. I dislike the easy button is now braindead PvE wise.. make it unfun.. but i'm 100% gonna use my sappire to solo gauntlet like i used to/ by necessity (still keeping in mind nythrax tip for the new meta there)

This is so ridiculous that I have to respond to this question from someone that played the game for 25 yrs+.. but in same time it make sense tamer main.. no offense.. they're the most wholesome users on UO usually after the crafters.. but they got that trammy knowledge & mentality.. #hating on anything not taming or trammel related.


from my experience a MAIN tamer user is like: controlling 2 pets at once? HARD!
what is the difference between a human control samp and a botted one? no lo se! *roll eyes*

Lord_Nythrax said:

If you want to gripe about which builds are "brain dead" or not, go play a game with aggro management, crowd control, positioning, dodging, blocking, countering. Go play something where "Encounter Designer" is an actual job title. Not Ultima Online, where every monster waddles forward in a straight line casting the same handful of spells at random.

I'm editing stuff and found that.. note how i change my approach when i notice the third drake, look how i need to retreat a few sec fighting that said drake or I how position myself in middle of the 3 mage caster to AoE them all at once not in melee range from that third drake?

This is what I meant by non brain dead on top of the resources management.. on my sappire i would have aggro all three drake at the same time and ask for more, ignoring all that.

PS: it happen 5-6 days ago.. hnv't played UO past 3 days.. i'm not sponsoring what going on in this game.. we need to fight; demanding EA a change in the management:

KroDuK said:

I'm editing stuff and found that.. note how i change my approach when i notice the third drake, look how i need to retreat a few sec fighting that said drake or I how position myself in middle of the 3 mage caster to AoE them all at once not in melee range from that third drake?

This is what I meant by non brain dead on top of the resources management.. on my sappire i would have aggro all three drake at the same time and ask for more, ignoring all that.

PS: it happen 5-6 days ago.. hnv't played UO past 3 days.. i'm not sponsoring what going on in this game.. we need to fight; demanding EA a change in the management:

We are missing that dreaded paragon this time around every event there is one that sends sampire running n8t this year 

Grimbeard said:

We are missing that dreaded paragon this time around every event there is one that sends sampire running n8t this year 

Ya the vocal new players don't understand how the devs dumbed this dynamic "dungeon" down.  But it lasts a long time, in a while the cities will have one or two defenders,  nothing spawns that new players, or players with crafted suits can't kill.

Pawain said:

Grimbeard said:

We are missing that dreaded paragon this time around every event there is one that sends sampire running n8t this year 

Ya the vocal new players don't understand how the devs dumbed this dynamic "dungeon" down.  But it lasts a long time, in a while the cities will have one or two defenders,  nothing spawns that new players, or players with crafted suits can't kill.

I love waiting at dungeon entrance with tamer watching the screaming sampires running 

Grimbeard said:

I love waiting at dungeon entrance with tamer watching the screaming sampires running 

I love it when tamers come to this forum and complain that a monster targeted and hit them like it's some kind of outrage.

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

I love waiting at dungeon entrance with tamer watching the screaming sampires running 

I love it when tamers come to this forum and complain that a monster targeted and hit them like it's some kind of outrage.

I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

What cracked me up in game (no clue if it’s accurate) was hearing that these new bears can be built so the more damage they do the more they keep themselves healed. So Sampire bears with hidden tamers is good? But Sampire players are bad?

LilyGrace said:

What cracked me up in game (no clue if it’s accurate) was hearing that these new bears can be built so the more damage they do the more they keep themselves healed. So Sampire bears with hidden tamers is good? But Sampire players are bad?

We have had Rams since the taming revamp came out. They have Life Leech, how many of those do you see?

For any pet you have to spend the gold for all 120 scrolls and skill them for many many hours. Before they can kill difficult things.  Notice how Kragg had his bear out without skills,  Its not the bear is so touch, its the spawn is so weak.

The T hunt boss didn't kill pets other than the ones players were riding.

They graced us with easy Mobs.  Don't complain about what Kyronix gives.

Scalis will be the Bears test,  How many of them will I res while my Triton  keeps on killing.

LilyGrace said:

What cracked me up in game (no clue if it’s accurate) was hearing that these new bears can be built so the more damage they do the more they keep themselves healed. So Sampire bears with hidden tamers is good? But Sampire players are bad?

A Ninja Passive magic with a Bushido active magic.  Would take about 20 minutes to kill an Allosaurus.  You can even run consume on it for that test.  It wont do enough damage to heal itself. 

Pawain said:

A Ninja Passive magic with a Bushido active magic.  Would take about 20 minutes to kill an Allosaurus.  You can even run consume on it for that test.  It wont do enough damage to heal itself. 

Good thing I don't fight dinos

Whatev’s the whole argument is old and stale. 

Grimbeard said:

I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

At least three or four tamers have come to this forum in the last week or whatever to complain about paragons hitting them. A couple of them have doggedly insisted that paragons actually target tamers preferentially. The poor dears are so used to sitting around in a trash luck suit pushing their "all kill" macro that the moment something dares to hit them they resort to conspiracy theories.

Also, when ranged fighters get targeted, they're expected to move and shoot in order to maintain that range. You seemed to have a real problem with this last time we talked about it, apparently your archer and/or thrower were getting "surrounded" by all the lowbie trash spawn this event throws at them.

You don't play either class or you wouldn't say such stupid things 

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

At least three or four tamers have come to this forum in the last week or whatever to complain about paragons hitting them. A couple of them have doggedly insisted that paragons actually target tamers preferentially. The poor dears are so used to sitting around in a trash luck suit pushing their "all kill" macro that the moment something dares to hit them they resort to conspiracy theories.

Also, when ranged fighters get targeted, they're expected to move and shoot in order to maintain that range. You seemed to have a real problem with this last time we talked about it, apparently your archer and/or thrower were getting "surrounded" by all the lowbie trash spawn this event throws at them.

This event is comparing Apples and Oranges.  Nothing here is difficult.  If a tamer dies the pet kills the paragon while the tamer resses.  In the previous dungeons, the para would be at full HP when you return, and you begin again.

Yes, our nerfs are still on while Tainted LL is not. 

I don't complain about being detected, that's been the way it works, an elderly father figure is that poster.  Giving you info when you lack it, is not complaining.

Least I can build and skill my bears on a tamer while my fighters get more drops.

Grimbeard said:

You don't play either class or you wouldn't say such stupid things 

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

You don't play either class or you wouldn't say such stupid things 

What exactly are you saying here? Is it your contention that ranged attackers are not supposed to move around in order to maintain distance between themselves and the monsters? Are you literally just standing in one place and getting hit?

As for tamers, I don't need to play one in order to read their posts about how unfair it is that monsters are allowed to hit them.

You have to stop to shoot what part of this don't you comprehend?  And it's sampires running by that causes a monster to re-target that tamers complain about 

Grimbeard said:

You have to stop to shoot what part of this don't you comprehend?

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

You have to stop to shoot what part of this don't you comprehend?

Oh my god dude, you stop to shoot and then move some more, paragons aren't THAT fast. Do you want to see? Roll a disposable newbie on Atlantic and I'll stone archery on and show you. Our event towns are too crowded to get a paragon to ourselves, but we can run through Ilshenar until we find a nice one, and then I'll lead it around and shoot it for a while without letting it hit me.

Gee the monsters I fight mana dump on me you must be gud 

Grimbeard said:

Gee the monsters I fight mana dump on me you must be gud 

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

Gee the monsters I fight mana dump on me you must be gud 

What does this have to do with you standing there letting them hit you? When you're shooting and moving, shooting and moving, all you have to do is move a little further than normal and make enough room to get off a heal. This is elementary Archer 101 stuff, it's insane that I have to explain it to you. You aren't qualified to talk about game balance in any meaningful way. I'm not even being rude, you just objectively are not.

You live in a fantasy world 

Grimbeard said:

You live in a fantasy world 

You have lived in your 2 button sampire world for to long

Grimbeard said:

You have lived in your 2 button sampire world for to long

Lord_Nythrax said:

"The proper way to nerf the abomination known as sampire is to make necro leeches scale off spirt speak also negative and positive karma spell should damage the opposite" -- Grimbeard

"Curse Weapon was a perfect balance.. u need to actually cast the spell (fizzle) without SS the lenght is just ridiculous.. casting tons of curse weapon lower the karma just enough to make the pally healing and cure worthless.." -- Kroduk

"Sampire should not exist as it is.   The amount of returned HP should scale with Spirit Speak. The HP returned should also reduce as Chivalry is inceased" -- Pawain

---------------------------------------------

I unironically support all of the above.

Admittedly it's not exactly a selfless position on my part since I already run a no-chiv sampire with spirit speak just because I happen to like it that way, but it is a bit less strong than the standard meta sampire build and deals less well with certain specific situations. I'm not an expert on the current high-end chiv melee meta, but I do think it's possible to arrive an an equilibrium where both builds are at least generally equally viable.

I really wish someone from the development team would talk about this out loud. For like twenty years now the subject has been shrouded in a sort of baffling silence, where obvious nerfs are never made and instead they just slap leech immunity on to the occasional mob, like being OP part of the time and worthless other times averages out to being balanced.

I have a sneaking suspicion that part of it is thus: If they made these changes, sure the Average Joe Sampire would be able to pick up spirit speak instead of chivalry, but they'd be stuck wearing a dexer suit with no LRC and need to carry necro reagents. Nobody wants to carry regs, and asking every sampire to replace their suit is viewed as too great a demand.

If that is the case, then I think they should just add a weightless insurable reagent sack and call it a day. Nobody actually likes LRC, they just hate carrying reagents so much that they're willing to nerf their suits over it. It's a convenience stat, so just give everyone the convenience and call it a day. I already wear a dexer suit with LRC since I like using my necro spells, so it's nothing to me either way, although I guess I'd look into a new suit if I didn't really need LRC anymore.

With the event weapons and craftable high life leech weapons, you don't even need to run Necro anymore.  I am running a macer Paladin build with Sanctifier or a high life leech war hammer and it works just fine. Now I have healing for the times that life leech is corrupted.  This event even gave me a free +15 to my healing with one of the new items.

Stingard said:

With the event weapons and craftable high life leech weapons, you don't even need to run Necro anymore.  I am running a macer Paladin build with Sanctifier or a high life leech war hammer and it works just fine. Now I have healing for the times that life leech is corrupted.  This event even gave me a free +15 to my healing with one of the new items.

Where will you put those points?  

Grimbeard said:

Stingard said:

With the event weapons and craftable high life leech weapons, you don't even need to run Necro anymore.  I am running a macer Paladin build with Sanctifier or a high life leech war hammer and it works just fine. Now I have healing for the times that life leech is corrupted.  This event even gave me a free +15 to my healing with one of the new items.

Where will you put those points?  

I just ate a scroll and went from 100 to 115 healing for now.  I will look at it again after the event and see if there is a better way to use them with my template.

On a different note, this Chiv/AI Bear is laying waste to my normal training room in Hythloth for pets and it's not even done training up. 

Feels more like greed, such a environment of mine mine all mine. 🙁

Lord_Nythrax said:

Grimbeard said:

I don't complain i just find it insane that you believe tamers and ranged fighters never get targeted..

At least three or four tamers have come to this forum in the last week or whatever to complain about paragons hitting them. A couple of them have doggedly insisted that paragons actually target tamers preferentially. The poor dears are so used to sitting around in a trash luck suit pushing their "all kill" macro that the moment something dares to hit them they resort to conspiracy theories.

Also, when ranged fighters get targeted, they're expected to move and shoot in order to maintain that range. You seemed to have a real problem with this last time we talked about it, apparently your archer and/or thrower were getting "surrounded" by all the lowbie trash spawn this event throws at them.

You either don't play tamer, or you don't play at all.

On my warrior, I see paragons latch onto tamers on foot and never change target until the tamer is dead, no matter how many people hit the paragon, or how many people run by it. It just sticks to tamers. Mean while, if I'm fighting a paragon, ANYTHING can run by me and the paragon will disengage and run off and never come back to me. I just have to chase it for 10 screens while it chases someone else. The AI is bad, and laughably so.

I suspect you actually don't play the game, and only come to stir the forum pot. Like your video claiming sampires are OP, but you're fighting normal skeletal drakes and skeletal mages. I laughed. My dexxer two shots drakes and the HA on my weapon one shots non-paragon skeletal mages. I don't know why it took you so long to kill those mobs, but as a two week old warrior that I took the time to gear/skill, I can out kill your supposedly OP sampire, without necro. lol

Merlin said:

Sampires should be left alone.  It is (arguably) the most popular melee template and thousands of account holders have one.   While they certainly have some powerful advantages, there is plenty of content where they are at a disadvantage.  

The developers should ignore this echo chamber of forum trolls who simply want the rest of the UO community to share in their constant misery. Don't like sampires? Play New Legacy.

Merlin said:

Sampires should be left alone.  It is (arguably) the most popular melee template and thousands of account holders have one.   While they certainly have some powerful advantages, there is plenty of content where they are at a disadvantage.  

The developers should ignore this echo chamber of forum trolls who simply want the rest of the UO community to share in their constant misery. Don't like sampires? Play New Legacy.

I agree. Sampires are an enjoyable way to play, and if anything we should be looking at making other classes as enjoyable, instead of beating them down to not be enjoyable.

Rhel said:

On my warrior, I see paragons latch onto tamers on foot and never change target until the tamer is dead, no matter how many people hit the paragon, or how many people run by it. It just sticks to tamers. Mean while, if I'm fighting a paragon, ANYTHING can run by me and the paragon will disengage and run off and never come back to me. I just have to chase it for 10 screens while it chases someone else. The AI is bad, and laughably so.

Actually, I noticed they've been starting to instantly target as soon as they spawn where they used to take a second before they would target 

While Sampires are clearly powerful, essentially everyone has the option to make one. With this invasion portion of the event, I've used a tamer, archer, sampire, and thrower. I prefer an archer of the group. I'm hardly a "hardcore" player anymore, and find tossing arrows easy enough and a high enough return. I find the tamer the least enjoyable of the invasion -- but the easiest for the Manifestation. I don't believe any single template should rule all scenarios and really do enjoy how this event is has different things to do.

username said:

Kinda irrelevant to this post but on my old sampire I've dropped necro completely and just use some of the new 100% leech weapons. Seems to keep me alive as well if not better than vampire form + extra skill points to add healing and resist spells. Personally I'd support this but seems like we're 20 years a bit late on the nerf and they're not super meta anymore, just a lazy outdated template, so meh.

Lord_Nythrax said:

Rhel said:

On my warrior, I see paragons latch onto tamers on foot and never change target until the tamer is dead, no matter how many people hit the paragon, or how many people run by it. It just sticks to tamers. Mean while, if I'm fighting a paragon, ANYTHING can run by me and the paragon will disengage and run off and never come back to me. I just have to chase it for 10 screens while it chases someone else. The AI is bad, and laughably so.

It's the same paragon AI that's been around for twenty years, exactly what kind of sympathy are you hoping for when you breathlessly tell people that tamers able to be targeted like literally everyone else?

Rhel said:

Like your video claiming sampires are OP, but you're fighting normal skeletal drakes and skeletal mages. I laughed. My dexxer two shots drakes and the HA on my weapon one shots non-paragon skeletal mages. I don't know why it took you so long to kill those mobs, but as a two week old warrior that I took the time to gear/skill, I can out kill your supposedly OP sampire, without necro. lol

That video was posted by KroduK, trying to show how skillful his chiv dexer gameplay was. I multi-kill Dark Fathers on my sampire when groups of people die and leave them in the gauntlet. Maybe try some basic reading comprehension before you cop your little attitude, so you don't make a fool of yourself.

Oh, my bad. I guess you're both so similar and always reaffirming each other that I assumed you were the same person just using different accounts for clout/confirmation.

Its the same bad paragon AI that been around for 20 years. Being around for 20 years doesn't make something "good." And to be honest, as a returning player, it definitely seems more aggressive/unrelenting. I wouldn't expect you to understand though because you don't play tamers. lol

Rhel said:

Oh, my bad. I guess you're both so similar and always reaffirming each other that I assumed you were the same person just using different accounts for clout/confirmation.

Its the same bad paragon AI ... I wouldn't expect you to understand though because you don't play tamers. lol

Him and I disagreed on almost everything.. the last time we agreed was about the IQ of this 2024 community..

You're clearly projecting... i'd bet you don't even own a sampire (criticizing him for not owning a tamer) and this is your x'th forum account., meanwhile you're here commenting on a nerf-samp topic and thinking this one hand dexer that never leech a single resources in a 50 sec clip, was a samp.. nuts 


Pro tip.. just use magery on your tamer and voilà.. imagine tho; bringing a tamer to kill a few skellies.. i'm not judging but god damn I am with anyone using a tamer during this pro bot event.

Personally i'd say BS doing everything in their power to discourage any non automated scripted toon to take part in their theme gated event (the game at this point.. since this is a theme gated game under BS mismanagement; not a sandbox).. they're way too third party friendly; for us by us, to be otherwise.. You cannot be that purposely blind while under delivering on moslty every aspect while being at "war"

On that they doing a very good job; being pro bots.. They'd rather have a community of 10k bots over 10k players while being at "war" against third party.. big L studio..


At this point, I have to ask the question.. is it a deal BS have with the gold sellers for them to sub tons of automated account to boost legal revenue and players count while ruining legit user game to push us toward gold seller and/or bots??
Last time I check it was the GM controlling that aspect earning a cut for doing the taxi..!? 

KroDuK said:

Rhel said:

Oh, my bad. I guess you're both so similar and always reaffirming each other that I assumed you were the same person just using different accounts for clout/confirmation.

Its the same bad paragon AI ... I wouldn't expect you to understand though because you don't play tamers. lol

Him and I disagreed on almost everything.. the last time we agreed was about the IQ of this 2024 community..

You're clearly projecting... i'd bet you don't even own a sampire (criticizing him for not owning a tamer) and this is your x'th forum account., meanwhile you're here commenting on a nerf-samp topic and thinking this one hand dexer that never leech a single resources in a 50 sec clip, was a samp.. nuts 


Pro tip.. just use magery on your tamer and voilà.. imagine tho; bringing a tamer to kill a few skellies.. i'm not judging but god damn I am with anyone using a tamer during this pro bot event.

Personally i'd say BS doing everything in their power to discourage any non automated scripted toon to take part in their theme gated event (the game at this point.. since this is a theme gated game under BS mismanagement; not a sandbox).. they're way too third party friendly; for us by us, to be otherwise.. You cannot be that purposely blind while under delivering on moslty every aspect while being at "war"

On that they doing a very good job; being pro bots.. They'd rather have a community of 10k bots over 10k players while being at "war" against third party.. big L studio..


At this point, I have to ask the question.. is it a deal BS have with the gold sellers for them to sub tons of automated account to boost legal revenue and players count while ruining legit user game to push us toward gold seller and/or bots??
Last time I check it was the GM controlling that aspect earning a cut for doing the taxi..!? 

That's some major conspiracy theory logic, but I'll admit not out of the realm of possibilities. 

Just so you know, I do own a Dexxer/Sampire, specifically thanks to this event. Originally, I rolled up my thunter tamer, hoping to add detect hidden and be able to both kill mobs AND collect chests on one char, but the killing mobs/gaining artifacts portion was extremely slow. So I created and geared a pure "dexxer", who I then stoned off skills and tested out adding necromancy and chiv. 

I only maintain two UO accounts, and only post on the forums with this one.

Rhel said:
Its the same bad paragon AI that been around for 20 years. Being around for 20 years doesn't make something "good." And to be honest, as a returning player, it definitely seems more aggressive/unrelenting. I wouldn't expect you to understand though because you don't play tamers. lol

Maybe try getting good, because I'm pretty sure "monsters no longer allowed to target tamers" isn't a change that's coming down the pipe any time soon. Like if your character can't survive even a few seconds of attention from whatever you're hunting well enough to even get invisible, then maybe you just don't belong there.

Merlin said:

Sampires should be left alone.  It is (arguably) the most popular melee template and thousands of account holders have one.   While they certainly have some powerful advantages, there is plenty of content where they are at a disadvantage.  

The developers should ignore this echo chamber of forum trolls who simply want the rest of the UO community to share in their constant misery. Don't like sampires? Play New Legacy.

Yep, agreed.   This shouldn’t even be a debate.

we need to stop playing the “nerf their template not mine” game.

Dont like sampires?  Don’t use one.

Thank you for the feedback.