LRC and PVP Idea

I have a suggestion to perhaps make reagents somewhat more useful and also provide a way for gold to be consumed in the game more. Most things have a PvE and a PvP cap, as we all should be aware of. The one thing that sticks out to me is how mages used to have to use reagents in order to cast spells and thus they thrived on corpses etc.. the good ole days. 

I think if we put a cap on LRC when using OFFENSIVE spells and DEBUFFS that the LRC should be capped at 50%...meaning you will need to carry reagents in order to do harm to other players. We wouldn't consume reagents for every spell casted. Doing this allows for 100% LRC to work on DEFENISVE spells or anything that doesn't harm another player.

If a mage dies and gets resurrected during a battle, they would have find reagents off their body or another corpse in order to jump back the battle and cast offensive spells. Similar to any dexxer that relies on bandages to fight.

Now this would probably upset a lot of people but I think it could be a fun change and a great way to consume gold in the bank.

A. Move to Siege 
B. Do you truly believe this team is capable? 

gay said:

Give legacy magery spells an additional 5% bonus to spell damage when using reagents

Yoshi said:

gay said:

Give legacy magery spells an additional 5% bonus to spell damage when using reagents

"someone told me this was the case already the other day and i couldn't find the documentation for it

edit: just tested, could not see any additional damage"

It's just one of those rumours that has gone around since AoS launched.

"perhaps it's the case on one of the free shards or something"

As a mage would say just leave this alone.

Several posts have been removed. Please be mindful of the terms of service when posting, and please use appropriate language.

Yoshi said:

"perhaps it's the case on one of the free shards or something"

Idk, the first time I ever heard the regs do more dmg rumor was early AoS. Then some years later in ML when some nerds guild I wont even bother naming was trying to criticise people who used regs still.

Grimbeard said:

A. Move to Siege 
B. Do you truly believe this team is capable? 

I already play on Siege and I am not sure how this would be difficult to implement....

As you should know, when you cast a mage spell, it will let you cast and then the game decides if you have enough LRC to cast the spell...instead of failing to cast the spell because insufficient LRC. SO to implement in the code, you just add a check to see if the target is a person and if the spell is offensive/debuff and the result would be to set the LRC cap to 50% and calculate whether the spell gets casted without consuming regs or not. Simple as that...

I suppose 50% is quite extreme maybe even 90% wouldn't be so noticeable of an adjustment...

The biggest win LRC had imo was that it allowed people to train magery without the hassle of buying regs. The biggest downside is that a goldsink was removed from the game when LRC was added. 

If LRC is true to its name then lets talk about the reasons it doesn't work the same for inscription or alchemy guess that doesn't bother y'all.

My personal opinion is balance is already firmly in Warriors hands, so any suggestion like this needs to maintain balance.

Unlimited Swings - for No Cost at all - again, a warrior should not be able to do this. Each swing of a weapon, should be linked to Stamina - and take away say 5 stamina, when you get to zero stamina, you cannot swing your weapon anymore, and should have to pull out, to regain energy - maybe Food should be used for this, to give Food more meaning ingame also.

The point being - even though Mages can cast spells for free, they still have a huge limiting factor - Mana. Each spell uses mana. Warriors swing weapons for free - with no limiting factor.

Surely not a good idea to go limiting mages further, without fixing warriors first ?

So if you want to go down this route. 
Step 1. Link warrior swings to Stamina, this addresses the free swing issue, and links warriors abilities to mage abilities.
Step 2. Then you can limit LRC if you wish, which will reduce spellcasting success - but again for balance - you must add in something that reduces a warriors chance to even swing his weapon. This isn't just hit/miss, DCI/HCI - this is a chance that the warrior just completely fumbles the swing and it doesn't happen.

{Hit/Miss, HCI, DCI re Warriors, is already balanced off by the fact Mages don't miss per se (but they do v resist, cure petals, Evade etc), that mages have to actually stand still to cast each spell already, and have to press each spell individually - no automated hitting going on - which of course brings up another point - Warriors should also be required to press a button, for every single swing they do (not just specials) - this would be scripted out of course anyway.

By the way - I do not believe 95% LRC, means 95% chance to cast a spell - I believe it means a lot less, this is an issue.

“A check is performed for each reagent that is consumed. Some spells only have 1 reg so 95% would mean 95%, some use 4 or 5 so that would be an issue. But at the moment as there is no cap it’s not an issue “

Yoshi said:

“A check is performed for each reagent that is consumed. Some spells only have 1 reg so 95% would mean 95%, some use 4 or 5 so that would be an issue. But at the moment as there is no cap it’s not an issue “

Agreed, but the point is, 95% LRC does not mean 95% casting chance, it is a lot less, it affects you a lot more than most would realise.

My point still is, there are quite a lot of Warrior balancing issues that need to be addressed, before Mages are even looked at again.

"If a mage dies and gets resurrected during a battle, they would have find reagents off their body or another corpse in order to jump back the battle and cast offensive spells. Similar to any dexxer that relies on bandages to fight."


Dexxers that are all using first aid belts so they don't have to find bandages?

Or Archers that have blessed quivers full of arrows, so they dont have to find arrows?

Or throwers, that don't have to do anything anyway? 🙂


Would mages get Blessed Pouches for Reagents, the same as all the other classes, or are we just nerfing Mages again?

gay said:

Give legacy magery spells an additional 5% bonus to spell damage when using reagents and while being a focused mage. It's one of those specs nobody uses because it means no running parry, bush, weaving, etc and is severely vulnerable to the toddler tier meta of PvP atm.

Or even better yet, give everything that would be "focused" a 5% additional bonus to damage when using reagents and having a focus on that specific class of magic. Mage/Necro/Mystic, without any influence from Parry, Weaving, Bush, Ninja, etc.

Parry needs to be taken off the Focused Mages prohibited list, it is as simple as this, this should never have been implemented.

As I have said from day 1 - all PvP classes are using Parry for a reason, and it is not because Mages are over-powered.

The game needs to give classes a way to pvp, without Parry, when Mages nerfed themselves by all having to take up parry, they didn't do this for the fun of it.


Edit. Orange Petals, Cure potions, Enchanted Apples, and a Trapped Box - pretty much Negate the need to have Resisting Spells on a character - and Negate a lot of what Mages can do. Whilst I would still argue resisting spells is important - there is no real Counter that replaces Parry and negates it as a skill. Wrestle/Disarm, yes, but this is very hit and miss.

in short LRC should stay the way it is and cheats need to be cracked down on hard...

Cookie said:

Parry needs to be taken off the Focused Mages prohibited list, it is as simple as this, this should never have been implemented.

As I have said from day 1 - all PvP classes are using Parry for a reason, and it is not because Mages are over-powered.

@CovenantX - It is not Parry that needs nerfing - it is the templates that cause everyone to feel they need to use Parry - because trust me, if we didn't need it, we would not be using it. Instead everyone bit the bullet, and took on board a huge Nerf to their templates by keeping Parry which was killing their templates.

Parry was not nerfed, instead they nerfed the Mages by destroying the Focussed Template.

How come more templates than ever are finding Parry a necessity?

You are looking at the after-effects, the symptoms, I am looking at the Cause.

You talk of allowing Mages to have Parry very easily - this is False. Having Parry really messes up our ability to cast anything - we have about 150 Mana, when we need 200+ to be able to maintain any sort of decent fight time. We LOSE 80 MANA which effectively kills our pvp ability right there. Mages are a class, that clearly need mana to function.


Warriors - get to use ALL of their Stats and properties generated via the very generous pvm loot bonuses. They have a use for HP, Str, Dex, Stam, Int and the related Mana. Mages do not - Dex and Stam are useless to them, so the increase here is useless - then Forcing 80 Dex into Parry, completely nerfs their casting effectiveness. This is actually the Crux of the Issue. Warriors get to use it all, highly effectively. Meaning Mages NEED Parry to survive the Onslaught. Meaning Warriors get pissed off, but Mages have nerfed themselves into the ground here to survive the Warriors loot bonuses, it's a vicious circle.

Warriors need a fix.

1. It can be linking each Swing to a reduction in Stamina. The same way Mages have to play. Then warriors would have to worry about Stamina conservation, and pull out sometimes, and end up running away because they cannot do anything.

and 2. It could be, making some of Warriors Increased Stat availability, useless somehow - the same way as 80 Dex for Mages is tied up and useless. 84 Dexterity in fact - because you want enough to cover Curse.
Actually the Solution could be - to make it equivalent - if a warrior wants to use a Special - he has to have a minimum Int pool of 84. That would have an equal impact on other Warrior stats, that is happening to Mages. This does not completely work - because warriors can use that mana pool, in a way Mages cannot use the 84 Stamina pool they have sucked out of their template. 74 in fact - if you take into account a normal Dex minimum of 10 for a mage, lets round it to 75 wasted stats for a mage. If the Mage could use that Stamina, for some other purpose - it would not be so bad, like warriors can use Mana for Specials.

So based off that - I will give you an alternative to 2.
2.a. Mages should have some very tasty Stamina Based Specials - in the same way Warriors have very tasty Mana based specials - so we can tap into that pool of Stats - and use the full range like Warriors can.


The reality is - Mages have to play through both of these Disadvantages, in a way Warrriors do not.

Cookie said:

How come more templates than ever are finding Parry a necessity?

“Power creep,
before, you had to choose between having swing speed, damage increase, or hit lower defence. Now all templates you got all 3 so need parry now”

Yoshi said:

Cookie said:

How come more templates than ever are finding Parry a necessity?

“Power creep,
before, you had to choose between having swing speed, damage increase, or hit lower defence. Now all templates you got all 3 so need parry now”

I completely agree power creep is the cause - in fact both Covenant and I are saying this.

We are reading the effect of it differently though.

I am saying this power creep has benefitted warriors to a point, it's forced a majority of other templates and even warriors to need parry. (which ties up with what you just said also).

He is saying, Parry is the problem, nerf it.

I am saying - we need to make it so players do not feel the need for Parry. I much prefer playing my non parry mage, to my parry mage, but he gets ripped apart, if I could use him, I would.

What they tried to do with the Focus Mage Parry implementation - was make Parry so Unattractive to Pure Mages, they would stop using Parry. They tried to FORCE Mages out of Parry (We lose 5% PvP SDI which is a lot if we keep Parry). What in fact happened, is all Mages realised they still NEED Parry, so it basically nerfed and killed off the entire Focussed Mage Template, because the change made them unviable. We'd all still prefer to be playing Pure mages.

They do not need to Force (and fail anyway, because they addressed the wrong issue), they need to give an attractive alternative. Carrot and Stick, they used the Stick, and failed.

Cookie said:

I completely agree power creep is the cause - in fact both Covenant and I are saying this.

We are reading the effect of it differently though.

I am saying this power creep has benefitted warriors to a point, it's forced a majority of other templates and even warriors to need parry. (which ties up with what you just said also).

He is saying, Parry is the problem, nerf it.

I am saying - we need to make it so players do not feel the need for Parry. I much prefer playing my non parry mage, to my parry mage, but he gets ripped apart, if I could use him, I would.

CovenantX said:

    Yes, powercreep is the reason parry is possible on mages, because reaching 80 dex without sacrificing basically anything wasn't possible before.  Now it is, and there aren't really any better options for mages anyway.  the offense you gain from less weapon-based interruptions on all parry-mages is a massive bonus.   in addition to either Shield-bash.. or Evasion + weapon specials are just too much for one template... -I'd also like it if refinements had zero effect against players to, they just make parry even better. -which i also pointed out a few times before.

Who said we want Parry on Mages?

1. Mages have LOST 5% SDI. 5% out of 25% possible PvP SDI. 20% of our Damage Increase - Possibly Warriors should also lose 60 DI out of their 300 DI Cap if they run Parry? It's tough to hit accurately for huge damage, when carrying a heavy shield? Gargoyles LOSE 10% HCI if they use a shield? There is your direct comparison to how Warriors are silently benefitting all over the shop.

2. It has sucked up 75 Mana, we desperately need for Casting. Can barely achieve 150 Mana if using Parry, when much like your 210 Stamina warriors, we need 210 Mana to be able to compete in PvP for a decent fight without having to run away pretty fast. Warriors should equally lose 35% of their Mana pool Mana if they run Parry - carrying those Shields is tough work, and affects you mentally surely?

Parry is a nerf for mages in itself, we don't want it, I'd rather have alchemy, scribe, necro, something else - yet we STILL have Parry!

You keep saying without sacrificing anything,
Mages have sacrificed;
1. 20% of our SDI Increase.
2. 75 Mana out of the 210 we need (like Dexxers need Stam) = 35% of our Mana pool sacrificed.
3. The opportunity to have a more Mage-Based skill on our MAGES!

3 huge sacrifices not enough?

I'm having to do your quotes differently, as I cannot make them work.

"I think the part some people over look when it comes to mages vs. dexxers and its pretty obvious. There is 0% chance to fail casting a spell with 120 magery unless you were hit and focused disrupted.....mages sync cast on a target using pre-casted spells and scripts and the dexxer has no real way to combat it effectively. There used to be Evasion which worked better til the nerf but even that was too powerful. I think a look into limiting how far a person can travel with a spell pre-casted needs to be addressed a bit and of course how long the spell can be pre-casted."


Not forgetting the obvious of course, Mages have to stand still like sitting ducks to cast anything - which is basically giving away free hits, which then equals, bleed, so no more casting, splinter, so forced walk, more hits incoming, once a mage it hit, that' pretty much it.

Dexxers also sync.



"1. Locating the pesky, ugly pixels in backpack as nobody wears them because they have 0 pvp stats. Takes longer than hitting a keybind to equip my armor."

Yet I still do it on my dexxers. The point is, you don't lose your bandages, yet you want Mages to lose their reagents, which would make them pretty much the only class to lose something vital for them to do anything.


All I'm seeing in your post - is a 4th, and 5th way to Nerf Mages, on top of everything else that has already landed.

4. With say a 95% LRC suit, you are giving us say 80% casting success.
5. You want us to lose reagents when we die, when no other class loses anything.


How about we address the real issues without keep Nerfing Mages?

1. Warriors Autohit - this should be keyed - the same as Mages have to.
2. Warriors have NO cost when hitting - should be a Stamina Cost - the same as Mages face with Mana.
3. Warriors have not had their Damage increase nerfed by at least 20%.
4. Warriors through power creep, can use ALL the added available stats given to them, meaning they have access to everything - max hit speed (Dex), max damage (Str) and More Specials (Mana) - whilst Mages have been forced into using Parry to survive all of this - meaning we have been completely Nerfed, as any related nerf to parry has a direct knock-on effect to mages. Mages have no Beneficial use for the 84 Dexterity we are forced to have for Parry, which we are Forced to have because Warriors are completely broken through power-creep.
5. Warriors have not had their Mana-pool Nerfed. If they run Parry - they should lose 35% of their Mana that they use for so many increased Specials.

But finally - for the REAL fix.
How about give an Attractive proposition for Mages to not REQUIRE Parry, then we can drop it, and get everything that has been taken away from us back.
1. 20% SDI reduction.
2. 35% Manapool reduction.
3. Lost opportunity to have a more fun mage related skill.

bryweyh007 said:

Mages have received so many tools that apparently get overlooked. The biggest being LRC of course. Then there's a Mage Weapons that doesn't have any penalty unless you suck and didn't get Spell Channeling on it lol . As stated above, the ability to pre-cast a spell, move around several screens and finish casting the spell. Mages can synchronize attacks to give the target 0% chance to survive. Spell combos to stack damage (explosion then fs). The ability to invis instead of having to have a skill to hide like everyone else. Teleport to rooftops, cast protection to not be disrupted when taking damage, paralyze spam people, energy field with wall of stone to box players in, mana drain target so they can't use their mana to do damage, poison target where no skill is needed to slow a dexxers healing.....debuffs to weaken target. The list of perks are quite long if we keep going at it lol but you get the point....DEXXERS have to use skills points to do additional strategies to kill someone where mages don't need to have additional skill points. All that is needed is the key bind set for the spell and mana to cast the spell. Mages need to focus on two stats and don't need dex meanwhile dexxers need all 3 to be effective and mana isn't as easily recovered. A Dexxer's  mana is penalized when they repeat the primary/secondary ability consecutively. This is quite common to affect a dexxer because most weapons only have one special ability that is used repeatedly. I don't recall a mage being penalized any additional mana for repeatedly spamming paralyze or whatever spell their spamming...and even if there was a penalty...there 64 spells in magery so that's practically easy to avoid a penalty similar to dexxers.

I don't get the point, there is a counter to everything you have listed.

Mages have received so many tools that apparently get overlooked.The biggest being LRC of course. - Why do Mages have to be the only class to REQUIRE consumables to even operate? 

Then there's a Mage Weapons that doesn't have any penalty unless you suck and didn't get Spell Channeling on it lol - Why would a pure mage want to use a weapon, may as well make a dexxer? Spare hand required for potions.

As stated above, the ability to pre-cast a spell, move around several screens and finish casting the spell. - And? Warriors can load up a Special and move around several screens until they hit and land it.

Mages can synchronize attacks to give the target 0% chance to survive. - Warriors can do the same.

Spell combos to stack damage (explosion then fs). Target 150 HP, Max resists, you've just done 10 + 20 damage, and you notice you have not even dented the warrior with our lack of SDI.

The ability to invis instead of having to have a skill to hide like everyone else. - Invis Potions - don;t even need a spell.

Teleport to rooftops - Warriors carry Teleport scrolls, or build in minimum magery.

cast protection to not be disrupted when taking damage - Why would you do this, when it slows down your casting to make you a sitting duck, reduces physical resist, and reduces your resisting spells, far more Disadvantages than advantages.

paralyze spam people - Resisting spells pretty much negates this, trapped box instantly negates, or anti paralysis VvV potion.

energy field with wall of stone to box players in - Energy field has massive mana usage. Wall of Stone useful yes. Can still be dispelled.

mana drain target so they can't use their mana to do damage - Mana Drain barely works - Resisting Spells counters and it is only temproary.

poison target where no skill is needed to slow a dexxers healing.... - Cure potion, Orange Petals, Resisting spells negates most Poison attempts - Cure as a spell, has almost been completely negated for Mages, yet should be one of our most powerful, to be taken out by Poison on a Dexxer means you have to be doing something seriously wrong, when you have so many counters.

debuffs to weaken target - Enchanted Apples + Remove Curse Chivalry.

The list of perks are quite long if we keep going at it lol but you get the point - Nope, I did not get the point. I just notice a Dexxer has a counter to everything. Not forgetting of Course, the blindingly obvious, a Mage has to stand still to cast, in which case, if the Dexxer see's anything bad coming, he should be off-screen anyway. It's only 10-12 steps distance you need to manage a Mage.


Now I have given you the Dexxer counter to absolutely everything a Mage can do - in your opinion, maybe you will now be open to my suggestions for creating balance between warriors and mages.

1. We need to get rid of warriors autohit. You should have to press a key, every single time you want to swing your weapon, the same way mages have to press a key for every single spell/ability we wish to perform. This is only fair, surely?

2. Your weapon swings have NO cost attached at all. Mages spells cost mana, it makes sense a spell costs a certain amount of mental energy. It surely also makes sense a warriors swing of his heavy double handed axe, costs a certain amount of physical energy, and should reduce Stamina per swing? You should have to carry consumables - ie Food, like Mages should have to carry reagents, and you should have to eat that food to bring your Energy back up. If you would agree to this, I would agree to the balance between Mages and Warriors, and Mages then having to carry reagents.

3. If a warrior is using Parry skill, he should suffer a 20% DI reduction, and a 35% Mana penalty, the same as Mages do, when they use Parry skill.

4. Mages should be able to use Dex for something positive. Currently they have zero use for it. This limits their abilities compared to what a Warrior is dishing out. OR, and this is my preference, we should be given an alternative to Parry, so we can drop it, and pick up a more Mage related skill.


You see the thing is, and this is where I actually line up with Covenant - I do not want to have to use Parry, I'd like us to be able to drop it, but we cannot. I think Covenant fails to see this, I want to get rid of Parry, as much as he does. I'd much prefer Scribe, or Alchemy, or many other things, Poison etc - or even Meditation which most of us have had to drop, to get Parry in the first place.

Cookie said:

Who said we want Parry on Mages?

1. Mages have LOST 5% SDI. 5% out of 25% possible PvP SDI. 20% of our Damage Increase - Possibly Warriors should also lose 60 DI out of their 300 DI Cap if they run Parry? It's tough to hit accurately for huge damage, when carrying a heavy shield? Gargoyles LOSE 10% HCI if they use a shield? There is your direct comparison to how Warriors are silently benefitting all over the shop.

2. It has sucked up 75 Mana, we desperately need for Casting. Can barely achieve 150 Mana if using Parry, when much like your 210 Stamina warriors, we need 210 Mana to be able to compete in PvP for a decent fight without having to run away pretty fast. Warriors should equally lose 35% of their Mana pool Mana if they run Parry - carrying those Shields is tough work, and affects you mentally surely?

Parry is a nerf for mages in itself, we don't want it, I'd rather have alchemy, scribe, necro, something else - yet we STILL have Parry!

You keep saying without sacrificing anything,
Mages have sacrificed;
1. 20% of our SDI Increase.
2. 75 Mana out of the 210 we need (like Dexxers need Stam) = 35% of our Mana pool sacrificed.
3. The opportunity to have a more Mage-Based skill on our MAGES!

3 huge sacrifices not enough?

Cookie said:

But finally - for the REAL fix.
How about give an Attractive proposition for Mages to not REQUIRE Parry, then we can drop it, and get everything that has been taken away from us back.
1. 20% SDI reduction.
2. 35% Manapool reduction.
3. Lost opportunity to have a more fun mage related skill.

To OP.  No more nerfs to mages.  The class has been beaten into the ground for 15 years straight.  Just stop.

If you want reagents back in game then do this.
When using reagents to cast a magery spell (instead of lrc) then the limitations on casting speed and sdi for pvp is removed.  This would allow the mage class to cast at 4/6 speeds with unlimited sdi for pvp and pvm. (but only if they are not wearing an LRC suit)

Of course a blessed reagent pouch / belt that acts the same as the first aid belt is still needed even if they don't make any of the suggested changes mentioned in this thread.

“This may be a CRAZY suggestion.

But how about you just require the reagent in your backpack..
but if you’re 100 LRC it doesn’t consume it.

“

bryweyh007 said:

A. My biggest argument about using potions to Invis, apples to remove curse, and all the counter consumables is that they take up a lot of weight...not to mention every weapon in the arsenal used to fight several different tactics. I cant use one weapons to do all the specials I use.  I've been in several hundred mage vs Warrior duels where the mage just spams poison/curse as a tactic to deplete potions/apples. I don't bother using Resisting Spells because I find it more useful to recover mana for increased DPS. 

B. The argument about swings not costing stamina is laughable. You lose a lot of stamina already just chasing a target because you are running through other players to try and land a hit. Consuming stamina for every swing would make it hard to have any stamina left over.

C. Just because you reach the target for a fraction of a second doesn't mean you will swing at the target...usually you have to be lucky to land a hit that fast. SO the tactic a lot of warrior do is nerve strike, or splinter to try and stay with their target.

D. Having to have 80 dex as a requirement for parry probably shouldn't work as well as it does anyways. If a dexxer just had 80 dex he would still get ate up because he can't block as fast as the attacker swings. WHy should a mage have the benefits with 1/2 the dex stacked.

E. Funny how you mention you need 210 mana pool as a mage and cant throw anything into dex but that, my friend, is BS and you know it. If you are hurting for mana then find it on some armor. most items looted in the game have INT increases vs Dex and Str so you could wrework your stats just like the rest of us. Plan and simple.

F. Your argument about warriors being able pre-cast their primary/secondary ability and travel screens away failed IMO....Warriors can't run up on someone and instantly do damage from the weapon ability they have chosen. Mages, you see, can do instant damage to their target with a pre-casted spell and it can be a ranged attack. Warriors don't have anything worth comparing to mages pre-casting spells.

A. So you are not prepared to carry the consumables that would help your situation - but instead want to force Mages to carry 8 stacks of reagents (as well as all the other consumables we do carry)? Bit hypocritical? Because you are too lazy to play properly, you want to downgrade everyone else?

B. Mages also lose Stamina chasing targets, no difference. It is not laughable - it is just a pure 1 for 1 game mechanics balancing fix. You have Greater Refresh potions for this, you also have the Chiv spell - again, mages do not have the equal means to regain Mana, that warriors have for regaining Stamina - bearing in mind we have all lost Meditation for PArry, which really hurts by the way, I don't think any of you realise how much Mana issues Parry mages have, they are almost useless imo.

C. Well, you need to get used to timing it, and pressing the button at the correct moment then, like Mages do. You see how simple you have it as a warrior? You have to do absolutely nothing. So not only do you need to lose Stamina per hit to match mages, you DO also need to physically press a button, for every single little swing you do, like mages have to, AND you have to time it corrcetly - oh the hardship, welcome to a mages world.

D. I do not understand this comment - I believe Dex and Parry work equally for a mage and a dexxer - ie a Dexxer with 80 Dex, is still blocking as well as a mage with 80 Dex?

E. This is not BS. I run a mage with 210 mana, and he can pvp properly, in the group fights I get into - fielding, and area spells take a huge amount of mana. He gets ripped apart though, it is not possible to pvp well without Parry. So in come the parry mages, and their 150 mana, cannot do the job. You talk about poison spam - it sometimes takes me 30 poison attempts to land a Poison against a 120 resist target with scripted cures - again - you not having Resisting spells is entirely your own fault - you are whining because you do not build proper templates, you do not carry the required comsumables, and you just want complete easy mode. Poison lock - is basically the only lock a mage has - and it has been nerfed into oblivion with orange petals, cure potions, resisting spells, and scripted cures. We cannot just explode flamestrike a dexxer to death when it takes 30/150 of his HP, and by the time you have loaded up the next round he is fully healed - as a mage, you are clearly going to run out of mana fast, so yes, you need the poison lock. Against people using scripted cures - yes, I spam poison 100 times as a fight opener, to wear down their supplies - but all that spamming, does not do any consequential damage, it is for annoyance mainly. I need to carry more Shatter potions, obviously.

F. Yes they can, I do it all the time? Set armour ignore special from miles away, come in, land it, boom. Yes there is RNG, but again, we all have to deal with that - see poison vs resisting spells, a dire percentage of them land.

In summary - if you are not using consumables, and are not using Resisting spells - why are we even having this conversation? And you are tryng to nerf Mages down to your level of play?

And by the way - Resisting spells to a mage, is every bit as annoying as Parry to a warrior. So don't keep going on about it. People going on about Parry, have absolutely no leg to stand on.

Yet even having said that, I'd still love to not have to use Parry, so I can use something else.

The only obvious solution is to unnerf ninja

Cookie said:

A. So you are not prepared to carry the consumables that would help your situation - but instead want to force Mages to carry 8 stacks of reagents (as well as all the other consumables we do carry)? Bit hypocritical? Because you are too lazy to play properly, you want to downgrade everyone else?

B. Mages also lose Stamina chasing targets, no difference. It is not laughable - it is just a pure 1 for 1 game mechanics balancing fix. You have Greater Refresh potions for this, you also have the Chiv spell - again, mages do not have the equal means to regain Mana, that warriors have for regaining Stamina - bearing in mind we have all lost Meditation for PArry, which really hurts by the way, I don't think any of you realise how much Mana issues Parry mages have, they are almost useless imo.

C. Well, you need to get used to timing it, and pressing the button at the correct moment then, like Mages do. You see how simple you have it as a warrior? You have to do absolutely nothing. So not only do you need to lose Stamina per hit to match mages, you DO also need to physically press a button, for every single little swing you do, like mages have to, AND you have to time it corrcetly - oh the hardship, welcome to a mages world.

D. I do not understand this comment - I believe Dex and Parry work equally for a mage and a dexxer - ie a Dexxer with 80 Dex, is still blocking as well as a mage with 80 Dex?

E. This is not BS. I run a mage with 210 mana, and he can pvp properly, in the group fights I get into - fielding, and area spells take a huge amount of mana. He gets ripped apart though, it is not possible to pvp well without Parry. So in come the parry mages, and their 150 mana, cannot do the job. You talk about poison spam - it sometimes takes me 30 poison attempts to land a Poison against a 120 resist target with scripted cures - again - you not having Resisting spells is entirely your own fault - you are whining because you do not build proper templates, you do not carry the required comsumables, and you just want complete easy mode. Poison lock - is basically the only lock a mage has - and it has been nerfed into oblivion with orange petals, cure potions, resisting spells, and scripted cures. We cannot just explode flamestrike a dexxer to death when it takes 30/150 of his HP, and by the time you have loaded up the next round he is fully healed - as a mage, you are clearly going to run out of mana fast, so yes, you need the poison lock. Against people using scripted cures - yes, I spam poison 100 times as a fight opener, to wear down their supplies - but all that spamming, does not do any consequential damage, it is for annoyance mainly. I need to carry more Shatter potions, obviously.

F. Yes they can, I do it all the time? Set armour ignore special from miles away, come in, land it, boom. Yes there is RNG, but again, we all have to deal with that - see poison vs resisting spells, a dire percentage of them land.

In summary - if you are not using consumables, and are not using Resisting spells - why are we even having this conversation? And you are tryng to nerf Mages down to your level of play?

Cookie said:
Not forgetting the obvious of course, Mages have to stand still like sitting ducks to cast anything - which is basically giving away free hits, which then equals, bleed, so no more casting, splinter, so forced walk, more hits incoming, once a mage it hit, that' pretty much it.

Dexxers also sync.

How about we address the real issues without keep Nerfing Mages?

1. Warriors Autohit - this should be keyed - the same as Mages have to.
2. Warriors have NO cost when hitting - should be a Stamina Cost - the same as Mages face with Mana.
3. Warriors have not had their Damage increase nerfed by at least 20%.
4. Warriors through power creep, can use ALL the added available stats given to them, meaning they have access to everything - max hit speed (Dex), max damage (Str) and More Specials (Mana) - whilst Mages have been forced into using Parry to survive all of this - meaning we have been completely Nerfed, as any related nerf to parry has a direct knock-on effect to mages. Mages have no Beneficial use for the 84 Dexterity we are forced to have for Parry, which we are Forced to have because Warriors are completely broken through power-creep.
5. Warriors have not had their Mana-pool Nerfed. If they run Parry - they should lose 35% of their Mana that they use for so many increased Specials.

But finally - for the REAL fix.
How about give an Attractive proposition for Mages to not REQUIRE Parry, then we can drop it, and get everything that has been taken away from us back.
1. 20% SDI reduction.
2. 35% Manapool reduction.
3. Lost opportunity to have a more fun mage related skill.

Again the dog archers glare at everyone crying about nerf

“stop arguing about parry in thread about reagents pls.

Let us consider some things:
if you have 100 LRC you still need 10 gold in tithing in chivalry book even though it’s not consumed.

if you use archery and there is lower ammo cost on quiver you still need arrow present to fire even if it’s not consumed.

if you run poison mastery, there is chance no poison is consumed, - but you still need to use a poison potion on the weap.

so should need to carry 1 reagent, even though not consumed”

Yoshi said:

“stop arguing about parry in thread about reagents pls.

Let us consider some things:
if you have 100 LRC you still need 10 gold in tithing in chivalry book even though it’s not consumed.

if you use archery and there is lower ammo cost on quiver you still need arrow present to fire even if it’s not consumed.

if you run poison mastery, there is chance no poison is consumed, - but you still need to use a poison potion on the weap.

so should need to carry 1 reagent, even though not consumed”

I'm done with discussing Parry with Covenant, we have both said our piece, I cannot say anymore without going around in circles. 🙂

I did also try to cover all points on the original topic. I was against it.

So, onto this specific point. 

Honestly, I just don't see the point really, it's a really small adjustment that does barely anything, it just adds for the sake of it. I think we need less if this in our lives. Less complication, less process. When I build systems, Simplicity is everything, when you walk out, other people have to run them, and they won't be resilient or last if they are too complicated or time consuming.

I've got no problem, if we are all in the same boat, but we wouldn't be?

Warriors all have first aid belts lined up, straight back into the fight, archers with quivers, tamers with first aid belts, paladins with a tithed book with gold in it - even sampires have arcane clothing.

Its like people are suggesting we only wind the clock back for the mages?

Cookie said:
I'm done with discussing Parry with Covenant, we have both said our piece, I cannot say anymore without going around in circles. 🙂

I did also try to cover all points on the original topic. I was against it.

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:
I'm done with discussing Parry with Covenant, we have both said our piece, I cannot say anymore without going around in circles. 🙂

I did also try to cover all points on the original topic. I was against it.

   You're no fun.    I just want to  point out, your playstyle doesn't even make sense to have parry to begin with, and you acknowledged that a Dexer can't beat a parry-mage and you didn't think they Should be able too.  That is not true for any other combination of skills,  Parry-mages can beat anything they go up against assuming they're not drastically outplayed by a more skillful mage (or in UO's case, a better cheater), seems to me that's as close to the definition of Overpowered as you can get.  Anyway...

Cookie said:

I've got no problem, if we are all in the same boat, but we wouldn't be?

Warriors all have first aid belts lined up, straight back into the fight, archers with quivers, tamers with first aid belts, paladins with a tithed book with gold in it - even sampires have arcane clothing.

Its like people are suggesting we only wind the clock back for the mages?

  First aid belts and quivers do not equate to LRC because you still need to restock both quivers and first-aid belts because they do eventually run out...Arcane Clothing also runs out of charges so they're also in the same boat.

However, I do agree for the most part that LRC shouldn't be changed, especially when there are more game-breaking things that need fixed or changed in some way that should be top priorities....  judging by the last couple years it seems that almost Nothing can even reach 'Top Priority" anymore.

Unless you’re bagballing vorpal bunnies… sorry, couldn’t resist.

The moment you start requiring mages, mystics, or necromancers to carry regs you’re going to get requests for a blessed reagent bag so that your reagents can’t be lost or stolen.  Let’s just leave this alone.

"you could even push the boat out and carry a whole 2 of each reg, 2 different piles...problem solved (if the first solution wasn't good enough)"

Yoshi said:

"you could even push the boat out and carry a whole 2 of each reg, 2 different piles...problem solved (if the first solution wasn't good enough)"

Bigger issues, surely ?