UNBOUND Energy Vortex : What am I doing wrong ?

Since pets are pretty much useless vs. Unbound Energy Vortexes, I have been trying to find a Template that can kill them fast.

I thought that a Dexer would have done the trick but, with a Dexer using a 100% Poison Elemental Double Axe with Air Elemental Slayer, 46 HLD, 50 HSL, 45 HCI, Swing Speed 1.25, 100 DI (on suit), 50 DPS (damage per second), and reaching Perfection from Honoring it, I can only do 70 to 80 damage per hit, and even spamming Double Strike, I still need close to 4.30-5 minutes to kill an Unbound Elemental which is ridicolus, IMHO....

By the way, my character is 120.0 Swordsmanship, 115.0 Tactics and has 100.0 Anatomy....

What am I doing wrong ? I do not see it as reasonable that it takes all of this time to kill an "average" Monster.... am I not using the right skills/weapon or special moves or Chivalry spells ?

I would like to cut down the time to kill them to like 1 to 2 minutes, possibly, but closer to 1 minute would be better.....

This, without the need to have to bring along another character like a Tamer with a discord pet or a Bard to discord the Vortex.

Thank you for the help.

They were not designed to be killed in 1 min.  They have over 70 in all resists so you should use a bladed staff instead of a weapon with double strike. 

Why do you call these average?  They are in the higher end of UO mobs.  Can you kill a Dimetraur or Allosaurus in 1 min?

Go play with one of those Mud guys down there if you think all those mobs are easy.

Pawain said:

They were not designed to be killed in 1 min.  They have over 70 in all resists so you should use a bladed staff instead of a weapon with double strike. 

Why do you call these average?  They are in the higher end of UO mobs.  Can you kill a Dimetraur or Allosaurus in 1 min?

Go play with one of those Mud guys down there if you think all those mobs are easy.

Well, I still need to find a way to make their killing faster because I actually value my time and 5 minutes of my lifetime to kill a single Unbound Energy Vortex really seems unreasonable to me... there is a whole lot of stuff that one can do in 5 minutes, other then killing an Unbound Energy Vortex....

I will try if, with a Bladed Staff, I can manage to kill them faster, I thought of using Double Strike because I can actually hit twice in a row rather then once and so, my 70-80 per hit, with Double Strike, becomes roughly 150 per Double Strike.... would hitting with a Bladed Staff hit for more damage then a Double Strike can do ?

Any other suggestion about how to cut down the kill time to the lowest possible yet, without using a secondary character ?

Thanks.

Sounds like you should do those other things then.

@popps you have to realize not everything conforms to your idea of what should be. The unbound energy vortexs are difficult mobs which is why they will often drop 5 shame crystals. There are other things which are easier to kill but they will not drop as many crystals or as often. Don't bother trying a discord pet or bard I can tell you these are not discordable, so you would again be disappointed. I'd suggest that perhaps you would be better off playing a different game which allows you to get everything at the start. It seems you do not agree with the idea of earning things.

@popps

Many players are confused about when to use Armor Ignore or when to use Double Strike. Here is a very simple breakdown. (I keep this for myself as a general reminder. Things may not always work exactly this way.)

Let's say you're fighting some creature, you do 100 damage per hit, and the creature has 60 Resistance to whatever damage type you are dealing.

With Armor Ignore you will completely ignore the targets resistance and all of your damage will be delivered to the target.

	Armor Ignore
Damage you deal	100
Creature Resistance	0
Damage to target	100

With Double Strike you will strike twice, but the targets resistance to whatever damage type you are dealing will be factored into both strikes.

	Double Strike
Damage you deal	100
Creature Resistance	60
1st Strike	40
2nd Strike	40
Damage to target	80

At 50 resistance Armor Ignore and Double Strike will deal the same amount of damage.

	Armor Ignore	Double Strike
Damage you deal	100	100
Creature Resistance	0	50
1st Strike		50
2nd Strike		50
Damage to target	100	100

The result:
50 Resistance and above use Armor Ignore.
50 Resistance and below use Double Strike.

Hopefully that makes sense.

--

For your UEV's in particular, if you don't lower their resistance a bit, use Armor Ignore.

or

Use a pet to discord the UEV (if they can), or use Runic Corruption, or Onslaught, or a combo, to lower the resistance.


Example, if a UEV resistance to Poison is 60%, and you don't lower it, Armor Ignore will deal more damage than Double Strike. However, if you do lower the resistance: say Discord lowers it to 50%, and Onslaught lowers it to 30%, Double Strike will deal more damage than Armor Ignore.

	Armor Ignore	Double Strike	Double Strike
Damage you deal	100	100	100
UEV Poison Resistance	0	60 Not lowered	30 Lowered
1st Strike		40	70
2nd Strike		40	70
Damage to target	100	80	140

--

Good Luck!

Riner said:

@ popps you have to realize not everything conforms to your idea of what should be. The unbound energy vortexs are difficult mobs which is why they will often drop 5 shame crystals. There are other things which are easier to kill but they will not drop as many crystals or as often. Don't bother trying a discord pet or bard I can tell you these are not discordable, so you would again be disappointed. I'd suggest that perhaps you would be better off playing a different game which allows you to get everything at the start. It seems you do not agree with the idea of earning things.

Well, the thing is, that I do not see a particular difficulty in killing an Unbound Energy Vortex...

I do not find it difficult at all.... just sit there and bash it.... for 5 minutes....

It is only ridicolously time consuming but I fail to see any particular difficulty in killing them....

I hardly loose more then 10% health and a single bandage gets it back with ease.... thus, when I eventually kill one, I hardly feel like I have earned the loot.... I more feel at a gross loss because, at the end of the process, I stood there for 5 fat minutes in order to be able to kill it...

Hell, I can sometimes deal with 2 Unbounds on me at once without dieing although, that is pointless to do since I can only hit one at a time for decent damage, using FWW does less damage...  and also Momentum strike which supposedly should help hitting 2 creatures at once, in the end does not seem to speed up the process....

Bottom line is, those 5 minutes to kill an Unbound seem to me such an extraordinary enormous amount of time that I was convinced that I had to be doing something wrong, and that there was a better way to kill them faster....

I am astonished to learn that there isn't....really astonished....

"like arroth said, you're using onslaught? (swords mastery)"

Arroth_Thaiel said:

@ popps

Many players are confused about when to use Armor Ignore or when to use Double Strike. Here is a very simple breakdown. (I keep this for myself as a general reminder. Things may not always work exactly this way.)

Let's say you're fighting some creature, you do 100 damage per hit, and the creature has 60 Resistance to whatever damage type you are dealing.

With Armor Ignore you will completely ignore the targets resistance and all of your damage will be delivered to the target.

	Armor Ignore
Damage you deal	100
Creature Resistance	0
Damage to target	100

With Double Strike you will strike twice, but the targets resistance to whatever damage type you are dealing will be factored into both strikes.

	Double Strike
Damage you deal	100
Creature Resistance	60
1st Strike	40
2nd Strike	40
Damage to target	80

At 50 resistance Armor Ignore and Double Strike will deal the same amount of damage.

	Armor Ignore	Double Strike
Damage you deal	100	100
Creature Resistance	0	50
1st Strike		50
2nd Strike		50
Damage to target	100	100

The result:
50 Resistance and above use Armor Ignore.
50 Resistance and below use Double Strike.

Hopefully that makes sense.

--

For your UEV's in particular, if you don't lower their resistance a bit, use Armor Ignore.

or

Use a pet to discord the UEV (if they can), or use Runic Corruption, or Onslaught, or a combo, to lower the resistance.


Example, if a UEV resistance to Poison is 60%, and you don't lower it, Armor Ignore will deal more damage than Double Strike. However, if you do lower the resistance: say Discord lowers it to 50%, and Onslaught lowers it to 30%, Double Strike will deal more damage than Armor Ignore.

	Armor Ignore	Double Strike	Double Strike
Damage you deal	100	100	100
UEV Poison Resistance	0	60 Not lowered	30 Lowered
1st Strike		40	70
2nd Strike		40	70
Damage to target	100	80	140

--

Good Luck!

@Arroth_Thaiel

Well, thanks, that is quite some good food for thought !!

Apparently, from your numbers, with a Rune Corruption pet that halves the UEV's resistances, then, using Double Strike would achieve 40% more damage as compared to using an Armor Ignore weapon....

That is quite a bit more damage that should cut my 5 minutes kill time of quite a bit...

I hate, though, to have to bring along a secondary character.... I would have much preferred to have been able to kill UEVs faster with only the one dexer....

Oh well.... I guess that I have to convert to multi-clienting... although that does not please me at all....

Any suggestion on what pet would then work the best as a Rune Corruption pet ?

I guess, one that I can park it on the UEV, that is, with native healing... and with lots and lots of Mana so as to be able to use Rune Corruption indefinitely while my Dexer does the real damage using Double Strikes a go go ?

What would be one such pet, then ?

Thanks for the kind help !!

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

There may also be an option for a tamer/warrior/bard template that I haven’t tried.
120 taming, lore, music, discord
add in wrestling, anatomy and healing… plus a refined energy suit.  Basically your character tanks and heals to stay alive, discords the UEV and uses 5 wolf spiders to attack.  In theory the wolf spiders might be able to out damage the double strike on a discorded UEV.

If you really want to speed it up, use 2 accounts.

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

There may also be an option for a tamer/warrior/bard template that I haven’t tried.
120 taming, lore, music, discord
add in wrestling, anatomy and healing… plus a refined energy suit.  Basically your character tanks and heals to stay alive, discords the UEV and uses 5 wolf spiders to attack.  In theory the wolf spiders might be able to out damage the double strike on a discorded UEV.

If you really want to speed it up, use 2 accounts.

@Merus

Your 1st set up suggestion is pretty much what I am currently using although, without the 120 discord vollem....

Did you try that set up and got the UEV down in about 2 minutes on average ?

The reason that I am asking, is that, without the 120 discord vollem, it takes me a fat 5 minutes... I would be much surprised to learn that the presence of a 120 discord Vollem would cut the kill time of a good 3 minutes...

Also, that would mean a 2nd character as a Tamer to master the 120 discord Vollem, right ?

So, it would still be multi-clienting....

Also, in this thread, @Riner here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87442/#Comment_87442 mentioned not to bother with a Discord pet or a Bard with Discord because, to his experience, UEVs cannot be discorded....

Why would a 120 Vollem be instead able to discord them, if I may ask ?

@popps
 I know each 5 minute increment of time is very valuable to you, but do you not think that the same is true for everyone?  Why dont you go down there with a Bard and see if they can be discorded? Instead of wanting someone else to do it?

A bard with an air elemental slayer or ele slayer would be the best test.  A pet does not carry slayers on them...

Yes they can be discorded with an Elemental instrument.  Possibly without in lots of tries.

So glad I saved you 5 mins of testing...

I had to go find out myself...

4x120 Bard, Discord Mastery, Air Ele Slayer instrument, first try...

Pawain said:

@ popps
 I know each 5 minute increment of time is very valuable to you, but do you not think that the same is true for everyone?  Why dont you go down there with a Bard and see if they can be discorded? Instead of wanting someone else to do it?

A bard with an air elemental slayer or ele slayer would be the best test.  A pet does not carry slayers on them...

Well, @Riner said, in  his post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87442/#Comment_87442 "Don't bother trying a discord pet or bard I can tell you these are not discordable, so you would again be disappointed."

So, for me the argument Discording was a non-argument.

He tried, it did not work. Why should it has worked for me if another player tried it and did not work for them ?

You bring up using a Slayer instrument.... mkay.... 120 Discordance + Slayers makes sense that it "could" work.... but that does still not explain why then a 120 Discord Vollem should be able to discord the UEV since pets do not use Slayer instruments, to my knowledge and as you also point out.... and, again, Riner mentioned using a Discord pet and this not working...

So, everything looks quite confusing.... some players say it works, others say it doesn't...

Shouldn't it just either "yes" work or "no" work ?

How come that different UO players get different results ?

How can this be possible when the code is one and the same for everyone ?

Arroth_Thaiel said:

I had to go find out myself...

4x120 Bard, Discord Mastery, Air Ele Slayer instrument, first try...

Meh, now I got to train 4 Bardic skills on an EJ character.... dang.... and this, when I did not want to multi-client.... but I guess I value my time more then playing UO on a single client.....

If this can save me 3 minutes per UEV kill, that is half hour in 10 kills or an entire hour in 20 kills.... quite a significant time of my life gained.....

Oh well....

So you are going to get 120 on Music and Discord on a toon when will take a lot of your precious time, rather than just spending the 5 min to kill each one.

Reducing the resists to to 10 more damage is not going to save you enough time to quantify that much effort to drag along a bard since it is not made. 

Since those do not discord on first try without a slayer.  I checked and their barding difficulty is 160 which is the highest that stat will show.


A little known factoid about Discordance:

 For creatures with a barding difficulty of 160, the debuff is halved, which means there is a debuff of only 14% instead of 28%, with a discord level of 120

So Discording it will bring the 70s resist to to around 60.  So using an AI weapon would still do more damage since you get 95% damage from the weapon on 0 resist.

In this case you can not speed up the kill unless you bring another melee toon.

So @popps you are already doing the most damage you can.  You can increase your skills and do a little more or get the Onslaught and AI bonus as much as possible.

Otherwise bring another melee toon or archer/thrower.


Have quicker reflexes maybe.  That's what makes me do less damage than others.

Pawain said:

So you are going to get 120 on Music and Discord on a toon when will take a lot of your precious time, rather than just spending the 5 min to kill each one.

Reducing the resists to to 10 more damage is not going to save you enough time to quantify that much effort to drag along a bard since it is not made. 

Well, but once I have done the 4 x 120 Bard then I have it for good.... so, in a way, one could see it as an investment in time.... spend more time now, to save it later....

Not to mention, that I could also entertain the idea of a 5 bucks Mythic token which could save me some good time... and, if I can gather jewels with Bardic skill points on, that would also save me some good time... in the end, with 25 bucks and buying a bracelet and ring with bardic skills, it might not be "that" much time consuming to make a 4 x 120 Bard...

And if I really feel spending a little 20 bucks extra to save up even more time, the De Luxe starter Pack has the Token of Skill Alacrity that gives me a week to enjoy faster skill gains...

How much is one's own time worth ?

How long would I need to spend to train 4 x 120 Bardic skills ? Would 25 or 45 bucks be worth the time saved ?

Pawain said:

Since those do not discord on first try without a slayer.  I checked and their barding difficulty is 160 which is the highest that stat will show.


A little known factoid about Discordance:

 For creatures with a barding difficulty of 160, the debuff is halved, which means there is a debuff of only 14% instead of 28%, with a discord level of 120

So Discording it will bring the 70s resist to to around 60.  So using an AI weapon would still do more damage since you get 95% damage from the weapon on 0 resist.

In this case you can not speed up the kill unless you bring another melee toon.

Well, then a pet with Rune Corruption which halves resistances would work better then Discordance, wouldn't it ?

https://www.uo-cah.com/pet-abilities/Rune_Corruption

I only need to find a pet with self healing (so that I can park the 2nd client tamer and focus on using the dexer to do the most of the damage) that can have enough Mana to sustain the 30 Mana cost for the entire duration of the fight....

There is 12 x 5s in 1 minute.... so that takes 360 Mana for 1 minute fight to have Rune Corruption always up and running which it means that my dexer can then spawn Double Strike for 140 damage at all times.

The Unbound has 20,000 hit points which it means at 140 per hit, some 143 Double strike hits.

Swinging at 1.25, taking into account misses, it would roughly mean about 2 minutes to kill an unbound.... maybe less, assuming that the pet will also do some damage...

I just need to find the right pet and figure out what would be the best training to give to it.

Suggestions ?

@popps

Bard skills will need to be in real skill, I believe, not equipped skill.

As Yoshi mentioned, you might try a disco pet, vollum or otherwise, with your warrior before making a bard. I'm not sure what setup Riner was using, but it's possible there is some trick to getting the pet to Disco the UEV. Pet people may (or may not) be willing to share that trick.

You might be able to farm the UEV's with your fighter/vollum and a tamer with a Rune Corruption pet (2 accounts). That would give you Rune Corruption (or whatever it's called), Discordance, and Onslaught, all lowering the UEV's resistance and allowing Double Strike to hit for a lot more damage.

The Double Axe is a nice weapon since it has Double Strike and Whirlwind, but you're not champ spawning, you don't need whirlwind to farm UEV's. If you can get the UEV resistance down to where Double Strike outperforms Armor Ignore, consider a Two-Handed Axe (100% Poison, Air Ele Slayer). The Two-Handed Axe still has Double Strike, but will do one more point of damage, both low and high end, then the Double Axe. One additional point of damage doesn't seem like much, but it adds up over 1000's of hits.

If you are not having problems staying alive, you could also up your Anatomy/Tactics to 120 and/or your Strength to 150, and/or add Lumberjacking to your template. That, of course, will be dependent on your template and how well you are doing against the UEV's. 

You have many options to increase your damage output, depending on what you want to do, and how you enjoy playing the game.

-Good luck!

P.S. I believe that if you play in Felucca, every UEV drops 5 Shame Crystals? Or is it just the bosses that are guaranteed to drop whetstone ingredients in Felucca?

P.P.S. You might be able to find someone on your shard who also wants Shame Crystals. They might be willing to back you and split crystals...just saying. Sometimes we all tend to focus on maximizing solo play and forget UO is still an MMO. 

popps said:

Pawain said:

So you are going to get 120 on Music and Discord on a toon when will take a lot of your precious time, rather than just spending the 5 min to kill each one.

Reducing the resists to to 10 more damage is not going to save you enough time to quantify that much effort to drag along a bard since it is not made. 

Well, but once I have done the 4 x 120 Bard then I have it for good.... so, in a way, one could see it as an investment in time.... spend more time now, to save it later....

Not to mention, that I could also entertain the idea of a 5 bucks Mythic token which could save me some good time... and, if I can gather jewels with Bardic skill points on, that would also save me some good time... in the end, with 25 bucks and buying a bracelet and ring with bardic skills, it might not be "that" much time consuming to make a 4 x 120 Bard...

And if I really feel spending a little 20 bucks extra to save up even more time, the De Luxe starter Pack has the Token of Skill Alacrity that gives me a week to enjoy faster skill gains...

How much is one's own time worth ?

How long would I need to spend to train 4 x 120 Bardic skills ? Would 25 or 45 bucks be worth the time saved ?

Did you not read what I said?

If you discord the vortex the resist will only drop to 60.  An AI weapon will do the same damage as it does now!!!!

Discording the vortex will not let you do any more damage than you can now.

If you spend ten minutes or a month making a bard you will not get a benefit from it.

Make another melee or archer!

Pawain said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

So you are going to get 120 on Music and Discord on a toon when will take a lot of your precious time, rather than just spending the 5 min to kill each one.

Reducing the resists to to 10 more damage is not going to save you enough time to quantify that much effort to drag along a bard since it is not made. 

Well, but once I have done the 4 x 120 Bard then I have it for good.... so, in a way, one could see it as an investment in time.... spend more time now, to save it later....

Not to mention, that I could also entertain the idea of a 5 bucks Mythic token which could save me some good time... and, if I can gather jewels with Bardic skill points on, that would also save me some good time... in the end, with 25 bucks and buying a bracelet and ring with bardic skills, it might not be "that" much time consuming to make a 4 x 120 Bard...

And if I really feel spending a little 20 bucks extra to save up even more time, the De Luxe starter Pack has the Token of Skill Alacrity that gives me a week to enjoy faster skill gains...

How much is one's own time worth ?

How long would I need to spend to train 4 x 120 Bardic skills ? Would 25 or 45 bucks be worth the time saved ?

Did you not read what I said?

If you discord the vortex the resist will only drop to 60.  An AI weapon will do the same damage as it does now!!!!

Discording the vortex will not let you do any more damage than you can now.

If you spend ten minutes or a month making a bard you will not get a benefit from it.

Make another melee or archer!

Discord and onslaught lower the resists enough to make double strike a little more damage than AI with a 100% poison damage weapon, at least in my experience.

popps said:

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

There may also be an option for a tamer/warrior/bard template that I haven’t tried.
120 taming, lore, music, discord
add in wrestling, anatomy and healing… plus a refined energy suit.  Basically your character tanks and heals to stay alive, discords the UEV and uses 5 wolf spiders to attack.  In theory the wolf spiders might be able to out damage the double strike on a discorded UEV.

If you really want to speed it up, use 2 accounts.

@ Merus

Your 1st set up suggestion is pretty much what I am currently using although, without the 120 discord vollem....

Did you try that set up and got the UEV down in about 2 minutes on average ?

The reason that I am asking, is that, without the 120 discord vollem, it takes me a fat 5 minutes... I would be much surprised to learn that the presence of a 120 discord Vollem would cut the kill time of a good 3 minutes...

Also, that would mean a 2nd character as a Tamer to master the 120 discord Vollem, right ?

So, it would still be multi-clienting....

Also, in this thread, @ Riner here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87442/#Comment_87442 mentioned not to bother with a Discord pet or a Bard with Discord because, to his experience, UEVs cannot be discorded....

Why would a 120 Vollem be instead able to discord them, if I may ask ?

A sampire can control a vollem who has been through 1 round of training to add the discord and the 120 scroll.  I confirmed it on test a while back.  I believe you have to do the training with a tamer, but it can be done.

I believe a 120 disco pet can discord a 160 bard difficulty, but it can take a while sometimes.

Merus said:

popps said:

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

There may also be an option for a tamer/warrior/bard template that I haven’t tried.
120 taming, lore, music, discord
add in wrestling, anatomy and healing… plus a refined energy suit.  Basically your character tanks and heals to stay alive, discords the UEV and uses 5 wolf spiders to attack.  In theory the wolf spiders might be able to out damage the double strike on a discorded UEV.

If you really want to speed it up, use 2 accounts.

@ Merus

Your 1st set up suggestion is pretty much what I am currently using although, without the 120 discord vollem....

Did you try that set up and got the UEV down in about 2 minutes on average ?

The reason that I am asking, is that, without the 120 discord vollem, it takes me a fat 5 minutes... I would be much surprised to learn that the presence of a 120 discord Vollem would cut the kill time of a good 3 minutes...

Also, that would mean a 2nd character as a Tamer to master the 120 discord Vollem, right ?

So, it would still be multi-clienting....

Also, in this thread, @ Riner here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87442/#Comment_87442 mentioned not to bother with a Discord pet or a Bard with Discord because, to his experience, UEVs cannot be discorded....

Why would a 120 Vollem be instead able to discord them, if I may ask ?

A sampire can control a vollem who has been through 1 round of training to add the discord and the 120 scroll.  I confirmed it on test a while back.  I believe you have to do the training with a tamer, but it can be done.

I believe a 120 disco pet can discord a 160 bard difficulty, but it can take a while sometimes.

More importantly why is there 160 bard difficulty 

Ok Popps they say to spend 2 years making a Bard so you can discord it and do 10% more damage per hit.  I guess they missed the part where you said discording will save 3 min of time per EV. (Which 10 to 30 seconds is more realistic)


Come back and tell us the new time at that point.

Grimbeard said:

Merus said:

popps said:

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

There may also be an option for a tamer/warrior/bard template that I haven’t tried.
120 taming, lore, music, discord
add in wrestling, anatomy and healing… plus a refined energy suit.  Basically your character tanks and heals to stay alive, discords the UEV and uses 5 wolf spiders to attack.  In theory the wolf spiders might be able to out damage the double strike on a discorded UEV.

If you really want to speed it up, use 2 accounts.

@ Merus

Your 1st set up suggestion is pretty much what I am currently using although, without the 120 discord vollem....

Did you try that set up and got the UEV down in about 2 minutes on average ?

The reason that I am asking, is that, without the 120 discord vollem, it takes me a fat 5 minutes... I would be much surprised to learn that the presence of a 120 discord Vollem would cut the kill time of a good 3 minutes...

Also, that would mean a 2nd character as a Tamer to master the 120 discord Vollem, right ?

So, it would still be multi-clienting....

Also, in this thread, @ Riner here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87442/#Comment_87442 mentioned not to bother with a Discord pet or a Bard with Discord because, to his experience, UEVs cannot be discorded....

Why would a 120 Vollem be instead able to discord them, if I may ask ?

A sampire can control a vollem who has been through 1 round of training to add the discord and the 120 scroll.  I confirmed it on test a while back.  I believe you have to do the training with a tamer, but it can be done.

I believe a 120 disco pet can discord a 160 bard difficulty, but it can take a while sometimes.

More importantly why is there 160 bard difficulty 

I was driving the easy bus when they designed those mobs.

Pawain said:

Grimbeard said:

Merus said:

popps said:

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

There may also be an option for a tamer/warrior/bard template that I haven’t tried.
120 taming, lore, music, discord
add in wrestling, anatomy and healing… plus a refined energy suit.  Basically your character tanks and heals to stay alive, discords the UEV and uses 5 wolf spiders to attack.  In theory the wolf spiders might be able to out damage the double strike on a discorded UEV.

If you really want to speed it up, use 2 accounts.

@ Merus

Your 1st set up suggestion is pretty much what I am currently using although, without the 120 discord vollem....

Did you try that set up and got the UEV down in about 2 minutes on average ?

The reason that I am asking, is that, without the 120 discord vollem, it takes me a fat 5 minutes... I would be much surprised to learn that the presence of a 120 discord Vollem would cut the kill time of a good 3 minutes...

Also, that would mean a 2nd character as a Tamer to master the 120 discord Vollem, right ?

So, it would still be multi-clienting....

Also, in this thread, @ Riner here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87442/#Comment_87442 mentioned not to bother with a Discord pet or a Bard with Discord because, to his experience, UEVs cannot be discorded....

Why would a 120 Vollem be instead able to discord them, if I may ask ?

A sampire can control a vollem who has been through 1 round of training to add the discord and the 120 scroll.  I confirmed it on test a while back.  I believe you have to do the training with a tamer, but it can be done.

I believe a 120 disco pet can discord a 160 bard difficulty, but it can take a while sometimes.

More importantly why is there 160 bard difficulty 

I was driving the easy bus when they designed those mobs.

So you agree Bards are long neglected and need love

Pawain said:

Ok Popps they say to spend 2 years making a Bard so you can discord it and do 10% more damage per hit.  I guess they missed the part where you said discording will save 3 min of time per EV. (Which 10 to 30 seconds is more realistic)


Come back and tell us the new time at that point.

I’m not suggesting it’s worth the fight, only that it’s the setup that allows the highest single player damage output that I’m aware of.  Since they nerfed the loot on them I think they are a complete waste of time.

Grimbeard said:

Pawain said:

Grimbeard said:

Merus said:

popps said:

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

There may also be an option for a tamer/warrior/bard template that I haven’t tried.
120 taming, lore, music, discord
add in wrestling, anatomy and healing… plus a refined energy suit.  Basically your character tanks and heals to stay alive, discords the UEV and uses 5 wolf spiders to attack.  In theory the wolf spiders might be able to out damage the double strike on a discorded UEV.

If you really want to speed it up, use 2 accounts.

@ Merus

Your 1st set up suggestion is pretty much what I am currently using although, without the 120 discord vollem....

Did you try that set up and got the UEV down in about 2 minutes on average ?

The reason that I am asking, is that, without the 120 discord vollem, it takes me a fat 5 minutes... I would be much surprised to learn that the presence of a 120 discord Vollem would cut the kill time of a good 3 minutes...

Also, that would mean a 2nd character as a Tamer to master the 120 discord Vollem, right ?

So, it would still be multi-clienting....

Also, in this thread, @ Riner here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87442/#Comment_87442 mentioned not to bother with a Discord pet or a Bard with Discord because, to his experience, UEVs cannot be discorded....

Why would a 120 Vollem be instead able to discord them, if I may ask ?

A sampire can control a vollem who has been through 1 round of training to add the discord and the 120 scroll.  I confirmed it on test a while back.  I believe you have to do the training with a tamer, but it can be done.

I believe a 120 disco pet can discord a 160 bard difficulty, but it can take a while sometimes.

More importantly why is there 160 bard difficulty 

I was driving the easy bus when they designed those mobs.

So you agree Bards are long neglected and need love

Bards are already as powerful as they need and you can get 3 or 4 more skills on them to make a full power whatever plus bard.

Will probably be good for easy kills in NL.

Things with 160 Barding are not easy without a slayer.  The Eodon tough guys are near impossible to discord.  Crazed mage can take quite a few ties to Discord.

Since Popps thinks these mobs are in the easy category, I would love to see a Dynamic Dungeon in Shame.  The mobs on that floor will make some viciuos paragons!

Pawain said:

Things with 160 Barding are not easy without a slayer.  The Eodon tough guys are near impossible to discord.  Crazed mage can take quite a few ties to Discord.

Since Popps thinks these mobs are in the easy category, I would love to see a Dynamic Dungeon in Shame.  The mobs on that floor will make some viciuos paragons!

Since it's ok let's apply the same difficulty to warriors and casters 

Grimbeard said:

Pawain said:

Things with 160 Barding are not easy without a slayer.  The Eodon tough guys are near impossible to discord.  Crazed mage can take quite a few ties to Discord.

Since Popps thinks these mobs are in the easy category, I would love to see a Dynamic Dungeon in Shame.  The mobs on that floor will make some viciuos paragons!

Since it's ok let's apply the same difficulty to warriors and casters 

My Archer bard kills the Crazed mages for me. I would not use a warrior because it takes too long. So already too difficult for warrior.  Do you think about what you write?

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

This ^. My Sampires use this along with Corpse Skin to where i'm dishing out 300+ total damage a Double Strike. When farming UEVs, my Sampire soulstones around skills until he has 120 Swords/GM Tact/GM Anat/GM LJ/GM Necro/GM SS/GM Bush. He tears apart UEVs within 1-1.5 minutes.

Pawain said:

Did you not read what I said?

If you discord the vortex the resist will only drop to 60.  An AI weapon will do the same damage as it does now!!!!

Discording the vortex will not let you do any more damage than you can now.

If you spend ten minutes or a month making a bard you will not get a benefit from it.

Make another melee or archer!

UEVs have 55-65 Poison Resist. 120 Discord lowers them to 41-51 Poison Resist. Onslaught stacks with that to further lower Poison Resist and make DS superior to AI against them. This all stacks with Corpse Skin too. Discord also drops the victim's Wrestling skill, making it easier to land hits on them, therefore increasing damage output.

Great info... But he said he uses bandages so I doubt he has Necro or Spirit speak.

Like I said he is killing them as fast as HE can.  The one I Lored first had over 70 in all resists. But I lored some more and they can be in the 50s.               

And the ones that have 50, he is doing the most damage HE can do with his axe.

And I still would bet that using another melee or archer toon would kill them faster than His melee and a Bard that just discords. It would be also faster for HIM to make that toon than a Bard. Every 5 mins matters...

Arroth_Thaiel said:

@ popps

Bard skills will need to be in real skill, I believe, not equipped skill.

As Yoshi mentioned, you might try a disco pet, vollum or otherwise, with your warrior before making a bard. I'm not sure what setup Riner was using, but it's possible there is some trick to getting the pet to Disco the UEV. Pet people may (or may not) be willing to share that trick.

You might be able to farm the UEV's with your fighter/vollum and a tamer with a Rune Corruption pet (2 accounts). That would give you Rune Corruption (or whatever it's called), Discordance, and Onslaught, all lowering the UEV's resistance and allowing Double Strike to hit for a lot more damage.

The Double Axe is a nice weapon since it has Double Strike and Whirlwind, but you're not champ spawning, you don't need whirlwind to farm UEV's. If you can get the UEV resistance down to where Double Strike outperforms Armor Ignore, consider a Two-Handed Axe (100% Poison, Air Ele Slayer). The Two-Handed Axe still has Double Strike, but will do one more point of damage, both low and high end, then the Double Axe. One additional point of damage doesn't seem like much, but it adds up over 1000's of hits.

If you are not having problems staying alive, you could also up your Anatomy/Tactics to 120 and/or your Strength to 150, and/or add Lumberjacking to your template. That, of course, will be dependent on your template and how well you are doing against the UEV's. 

You have many options to increase your damage output, depending on what you want to do, and how you enjoy playing the game.

-Good luck!

P.S. I believe that if you play in Felucca, every UEV drops 5 Shame Crystals? Or is it just the bosses that are guaranteed to drop whetstone ingredients in Felucca?

P.P.S. You might be able to find someone on your shard who also wants Shame Crystals. They might be willing to back you and split crystals...just saying. Sometimes we all tend to focus on maximizing solo play and forget UO is still an MMO. 

Thank you for the good advice and for the heads up.

I did try Felucca but did not notice much of a difference with Trammel as far as loot goes, but with the disadvantage that, while in Trammel one can recall to the spot, in Felucca it is necessary to do a long winding walk....

Before going the Bard way on a 2nd character, which will be more time consuming, I will try out the Rune Corruption with a pet, hopefully that'll be enough to cut down the kill time to 2 minutes which will be quite a gain from my current 5.

Just need to find what pet would work best for this, and what training I would need to give to it...

I want it to spam Rune Corruption and that's it, without running out of Mana, so that my dexer double strikes will do the most damage to cut down significantly the kill time.

Pawain said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

So you are going to get 120 on Music and Discord on a toon when will take a lot of your precious time, rather than just spending the 5 min to kill each one.

Reducing the resists to to 10 more damage is not going to save you enough time to quantify that much effort to drag along a bard since it is not made. 

Well, but once I have done the 4 x 120 Bard then I have it for good.... so, in a way, one could see it as an investment in time.... spend more time now, to save it later....

Not to mention, that I could also entertain the idea of a 5 bucks Mythic token which could save me some good time... and, if I can gather jewels with Bardic skill points on, that would also save me some good time... in the end, with 25 bucks and buying a bracelet and ring with bardic skills, it might not be "that" much time consuming to make a 4 x 120 Bard...

And if I really feel spending a little 20 bucks extra to save up even more time, the De Luxe starter Pack has the Token of Skill Alacrity that gives me a week to enjoy faster skill gains...

How much is one's own time worth ?

How long would I need to spend to train 4 x 120 Bardic skills ? Would 25 or 45 bucks be worth the time saved ?

Did you not read what I said?

If you discord the vortex the resist will only drop to 60.  An AI weapon will do the same damage as it does now!!!!

Discording the vortex will not let you do any more damage than you can now.

If you spend ten minutes or a month making a bard you will not get a benefit from it.

Make another melee or archer!

Well, for sure, another dexer would cut down significantly the kill times but suits for these are not exactly cheap... perhaps an archer but I do not want to get crazy at having to control 2 clients at once... if I am going to use another client, (which I hate, but if the Design of the game forces me, what else can I do when I do not want to waste my time for a kill ?), I want it to be a character that would need the bare minimum of control.... I do not want to go back and forth 2 clients. I just hate twitch gameplays... I play games to relax, not to get stressed out.....

I get plenty stress from my real life, frankly, I do not need games to also stress me any further.....

So, something like a Bard or a Tamer.... a 2nd fighter, be it dexer or ranged, would need too much control for my liking.... I leave that to those players who use unauthorized Third arty utilities which can have synchronized macros which control multiple characters with the stroke of 1 key (multi-botting I think it is called...), this is not for me.

Merus said:

Pawain said:

Ok Popps they say to spend 2 years making a Bard so you can discord it and do 10% more damage per hit.  I guess they missed the part where you said discording will save 3 min of time per EV. (Which 10 to 30 seconds is more realistic)


Come back and tell us the new time at that point.

I’m not suggesting it’s worth the fight, only that it’s the setup that allows the highest single player damage output that I’m aware of.  Since they nerfed the loot on them I think they are a complete waste of time.

if one is looking at armor and jewels, that is for sure a total waste of time....

I have by now killed quite a number, both in Felucca and Trammel, and not once I have found an artifact item... all "magic" stuff....

Considering the time it takes to kill an Unbound Energy Vortex, if one does it for items, they better go kill something else.... these things give zero, nada, nothing as far as Legendary artifacts items are concerned.....

And possibly, they are not even worth the time for Shame Crystals, considering how long it takes to get them killed.... in the same time span, how many other creatures in Shame one can kill and how many Shame Crystals they can gather ?

popps said:

Meh, now I got to train 4 Bardic skills on an EJ character.... dang.... and this, when I did not want to multi-client.... but I guess I value my time more then playing UO on a single client.....

If this can save me 3 minutes per UEV kill, that is half hour in 10 kills or an entire hour in 20 kills.... quite a significant time of my life gained.....

Oh well....

Talking yourself into becoming a scripter, watch yourself. 🙂

So @popps , of all avaliable choices in game ,  discord(pet or bard), grasping claw, aura of nausea , armor pierce ,  RS (from beetle),  you choose to have  bandage healing as a viable skill? Tell me you also have resist spells down there?  and you choose weapon with no AI while mobs resists are nt decreased. 
If you  having air elemental slayer, honor cannot increase your damage at all. 


I advise you to go kill easier mobs. There are lots of lizardman in Despise Fel , Each drops 3k + gold worth spined leather. 

Gwen said:

So @ popps , of all avaliable choices in game ,  discord(pet or bard), grasping claw, aura of nausea , armor pierce ,  RS (from beetle),  you choose to have  bandage healing as a viable skill? Tell me you also have resist spells down there?  and you choose weapon with no AI while mobs resists are nt decreased. 
If you  having air elemental slayer, honor cannot increase your damage at all. 


I advise you to go kill easier mobs. There are lots of lizardman in Despise Fel , Each drops 3k + gold worth spined leather. 

Sure, honor cannot increase the damage using an Air Elemental Slayer but it can increase Luck and it cost nothing to use it... so why not ?

No resists, and as I mentioned, and, as Arroth_Thaiel discussed here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87443/#Comment_87443, at 50 resistance, which it is moreless what the UEV have in poison, Armor Ignore and Double Strike will deal the same amount of damage so, chosing a 14-17 damage Bladed Staff over a 15-18 damage Double Axe, would have not made much of a difference... I find that having bandage healing is nice rather then having to rely on leeches.... but I do am going to try seeing if swapping it for Lumberjacking will make a significant increase in the damage I can do to UEV and thus reduce the time needed to kill them....

popps said:

Gwen said:

So @ popps , of all avaliable choices in game ,  discord(pet or bard), grasping claw, aura of nausea , armor pierce ,  RS (from beetle),  you choose to have  bandage healing as a viable skill? Tell me you also have resist spells down there?  and you choose weapon with no AI while mobs resists are nt decreased. 
If you  having air elemental slayer, honor cannot increase your damage at all. 


I advise you to go kill easier mobs. There are lots of lizardman in Despise Fel , Each drops 3k + gold worth spined leather. 

Sure, honor cannot increase the damage using an Air Elemental Slayer but it can increase Luck and it cost nothing to use it... so why not ?

No resists, and as I mentioned, and, as Arroth_Thaiel discussed here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87443/#Comment_87443, at 50 resistance, which it is moreless what the UEV have in poison, Armor Ignore and Double Strike will deal the same amount of damage so, chosing a 14-17 damage Bladed Staff over a 15-18 damage Double Axe, would have not made much of a difference... I find that having bandage healing is nice rather then having to rely on leeches.... but I do am going to try seeing if swapping it for Lumberjacking will make a significant increase in the damage I can do to UEV and thus reduce the time needed to kill them....

So of all those replies you got you choose to have LJ on you. Not decreasing foe resist, or his DCI or skills , or increase parry to have more AI counterattacks  (better altogether). You choose LUMBERJACK!   Hillarious! 

Gwen said:

popps said:

Gwen said:

So @ popps , of all avaliable choices in game ,  discord(pet or bard), grasping claw, aura of nausea , armor pierce ,  RS (from beetle),  you choose to have  bandage healing as a viable skill? Tell me you also have resist spells down there?  and you choose weapon with no AI while mobs resists are nt decreased. 
If you  having air elemental slayer, honor cannot increase your damage at all. 


I advise you to go kill easier mobs. There are lots of lizardman in Despise Fel , Each drops 3k + gold worth spined leather. 

Sure, honor cannot increase the damage using an Air Elemental Slayer but it can increase Luck and it cost nothing to use it... so why not ?

No resists, and as I mentioned, and, as Arroth_Thaiel discussed here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87443/#Comment_87443, at 50 resistance, which it is moreless what the UEV have in poison, Armor Ignore and Double Strike will deal the same amount of damage so, chosing a 14-17 damage Bladed Staff over a 15-18 damage Double Axe, would have not made much of a difference... I find that having bandage healing is nice rather then having to rely on leeches.... but I do am going to try seeing if swapping it for Lumberjacking will make a significant increase in the damage I can do to UEV and thus reduce the time needed to kill them....

So of all those replies you got you choose to have LJ on you. Not decreasing foe resist, or his DCI or skills , or increase parry to have more AI counterattacks  (better altogether). You choose LUMBERJACK!   Hillarious! 

I am going to START from the quickest to implement, since it only involves a skills swap off a Soulstone... and then go from there.

Fastest change --- then change requiring a bit more time --- then change requiring more time --- then if those before did not help significantly, change requiring significant more time.

Time is the fundamental commodity... the time wasted and gone, will never come back.... it is fundamental to administer one's own time conservatively, me thinks, saving as much time as possible because once gone, it is gone for good....

Does anyone else find it ironic that "5min to kill something is too long" while playing the game but popps has responded to every single person with his standard novel length post which surely takes longer than 5min per post. This thread alone could have possibly put UEV on the verge of extinction with as much time as he spent arguing with people.

PlayerSkill has provided the best answer (includes posts from others) to neatly summarize this topic. Either completely rework the template for UEV as he has list below to decrease kill time or don't and take 5min to kill them. There isn't really any need to debate further, only choices to be made on what you want to do popps. 

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Merus said:

There are a variety of ways to make it go faster.

Best bet for a single character to my understanding:

Swords sampire using honor, the 100% poison weapon with air elemental slayer, onslaught every 4-5 swings, double strike, and with a 120 discord vollem as a secondary attacker.  That should lower its resistance enough to be getting 100+ damage per strike.

With the amount of hit points they have it’s still gonna take a couple minutes.

This ^. My Sampires use this along with Corpse Skin to where i'm dishing out 300+ total damage a Double Strike. When farming UEVs, my Sampire soulstones around skills until he has 120 Swords/GM Tact/GM Anat/GM LJ/GM Necro/GM SS/GM Bush. He tears apart UEVs within 1-1.5 minutes.

Pawain said:

Did you not read what I said?

If you discord the vortex the resist will only drop to 60.  An AI weapon will do the same damage as it does now!!!!

Discording the vortex will not let you do any more damage than you can now.

If you spend ten minutes or a month making a bard you will not get a benefit from it.

Make another melee or archer!

UEVs have 55-65 Poison Resist. 120 Discord lowers them to 41-51 Poison Resist. Onslaught stacks with that to further lower Poison Resist and make DS superior to AI against them. This all stacks with Corpse Skin too. Discord also drops the victim's Wrestling skill and applies a DCI debuff, making it easier to land hits on them, therefore increasing damage output.

Right now my bard and her 3 pets are killing another discorded (with ex. instrument,  not a slayer) UEV instead of just train on poor critter. 

No damage from toon : only provo buff.    Takes them around 20-25 minutes. 
Triton , High plains Boura and lesser Hiryu
By the way : lowest resist on them is usually physical Mine after discord had 47 , 40 with grasping claw. .    WHy you took poison axe there , @popps ? This is for those who read all posts fully and understand : it is for Corpse Skin. 

While your time is so valuable, go tame and bond 5* lesser Hiryu. With 105-108 wrestling.   
They are tearing UEV in pieces while you tanking it. 

UEV is dead , totally 22 minutes. 
And I was rewarded with awesome ring  +15 HCI , 15 DCI , 5% SSI, 15 DI 5% Spirit speak. 

UEV is one of those mobs you want to salvage everything. They drop multiple void cores that give decent cleanup points and depending on market, can be more profitable in the long term than the faster kill mobs.

To play it safe, fandancer and tuski have always been a go to for quick kill straight gold farming. 

Since this thread has a bunch of good UEV slaying information, I just want to clarify that UEV's lowest resistance is usually Poison (low 60's), although sometimes Physical can be lower.

Resistance info for 15 UEV's (captured 31/01/2023):

Unbound Energy Vortex Damage Resistance
Physical	Fire	Cold	Poison	Energy
70	70	65	61	100
68	65	65	64	100
66	72	65	57	100
65	67	74	65	100
67	66	68	63	100
66	67	73	60	100
67	66	65	65	100
69	73	67	56	100
61	69	69	60	100
63	74	69	64	100
62	68	72	56	100
61	74	73	59	100
60	68	75	64	100
68	69	73	58	100
67	69	70	63	100
Averages
65	69	70	61	100

For all 15 UEV's Damage Dealt was identical: 100% Energy, 21-23 Base

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Since this thread has a bunch of good UEV slaying information, I just want to clarify that UEV's lowest resistance is usually Poison (low 60's), although sometimes Physical can be lower.

Averages
65	69	70	61	100

Trained ferret (Nausea + grasping claw), or non-trained Lesser Hiryu (grasping claw)  will decrease physical by 7. Letting you reforge weapon to Hit fatigue, or just use normal from vendor if you use double strike or Crushing blow weapon. .

The must be 50 ways to kill your uev none of which popps will use..

Grimbeard said:

The must be 50 ways to kill your uev none of which popps will use..

Possibly, but other players are gaining ideas and knowledge from the discussion, so let's keep it civil please?

@popps ; A dexxer suit for swords is not that expensive.  That is just something you read on forums.  You need one of these two combinations to swing at max speed with a double axe or  bladed staff.

Stam 210  SSI 5
or Stam 180 SSI 20

You can get 5 SSI from a town buff.

You can put SSI on your weapon if you need to.

What makes the suits expensive is they want everything and 100LRC so their sampires can cast Vampiric embrace.  Then that LRC is just useless.

You can get 2 cheap pieces with high resists that have some dex stats then craft the other pieces.
Or use some of the legendaries.  Britches of warding are not that expensive.  The blackthorn mace and shield helm is not that expensive.

Sure you can spend a lot on a suit, but you do not have to.

You should have bought some spare Paladin vambraces from the last event, you made a thread about what to double up on so you either had or pretended to have spare points.

Just having a second melee toon with EoO just hitting without specials will do more added damage than making a toon with Discord. You do not have to switch between screens.

@Arroth_Thaiel ; I must have happened to lore a messed up EV.  It's resists were 70 poison 100 energy and 80s in the rest.  Which does not match any other I have lored or any of yours.

Or Operator error on my part.

Pawain said:

@ popps  A dexxer suit for swords is not that expensive.  That is just something you read on forums.  

You can put SSI on your weapon if you need to.

Sure you can spend a lot on a suit, but you do not have to.

Just having a second melee toon with EoO just hitting without specials will do more added damage than making a toon with Discord. You do not have to switch between screens.

I prefer lower dex with higher ss on items with my axe samp. Epps and quiver were free during events. I also use tinker legs and ss on jewels which seem to be way cheaper than suit pieces to my fancy. 

My bandaid shield samp has practically free armor on using only +mana suit pieces. The damage is lower but it's overall a more fun temp. 

Discord is a always a good skill to have on standby. Be it a discord tamer or EoO archer they both make excellent stand in the back and do damage temps. 

Alil late to the party but good friend & I spent some time figuring out fastest way to kill them long ago before they got loot nerfed. We farmed them for 2-3 hours a few day per week. Loot was CrAzY. Still use the no durability bracelet gotten there, its one of my best pieces imho.

Necro discord bard using slayer instruments & corpse skin w a swordsman using 100% poison double axe spamming double strike. Not going to spell everything out for u... u should b able to go from there.

We timed most of them trying to break our record time constantly. Our best was 1min 17sec... once. 2nd lowest was 1min 27sec with most taking between 1min 35sec to 1min 50sec. Good luck.

Ya the SSI epps have been in multiple events.  They are 130M on Atl.  Since Popps likes shard bound I am sure he can easily find them cheaper on his shard.  If he does not have spares.

One 5 SSI ring that you can imbue 4 other properties on, and the city Buff and you are at the 20SSI.

I use a Disposable swordsman with the melee skills at 100 on soul stones, 50 Chiv and LJ when created.
They use cheap armor.
They can do shrine battles and get the Virtue tiles. Then they go to pixel land.

Urge said:

UEV is one of those mobs you want to salvage everything. They drop multiple void cores that give decent cleanup points and depending on market, can be more profitable in the long term than the faster kill mobs.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Yep, i farm UEVs for Void Orbs (imbuing Leeches), Shame Crystals (Whetstones), Vials of Vitriol (imbuing Elemental Slayer), and Void Cores. Overall very useful and profitable.

Void cores was the one i couldn't remember. Isn't that the 1k cleanup point item?

PlayerSkillFTW said:

This ^. My Sampires use this along with Corpse Skin to where i'm dishing out 300+ total damage a Double Strike. When farming UEVs, my Sampire soulstones around skills until he has 120 Swords/GM Tact/GM Anat/GM LJ/GM Necro/GM SS/GM Bush. He tears apart UEVs within 1-1.5 minutes.

UEVs have 55-65 Poison Resist. 120 Discord lowers them to 41-51 Poison Resist. Onslaught stacks with that to further lower Poison Resist and make DS superior to AI against them. This all stacks with Corpse Skin too. Discord also drops the victim's Wrestling skill and applies a DCI debuff, making it easier to land hits on them, therefore increasing damage output.

@PlayerSkillFTW

May I ask whether you are also using an Elemental Cameo (I do not have one), have 100% DI on your dexer suit and what are the properties on the Double Axe which you are using, besides of course it being a 100% Poison damage ? I would imagine also Life and Mana leeches ? What else?

The reason that I am asking, is that, with 100% DI on the suit, and Air Elemental Slayer on the Weapon, then an Elemental Cameo would not be necessary, am I right ?

Also, since the Template as you describe it, has no Animal Taming and Lore, do I need to understand that the Vollem that you are using has only 120 Discord training (obviously done with a Tamer, I assume...) done with the 1 level training and then you stopped... All available points go into 120 Discord or did you have left over point put into something else ?

Never had control issues for the Vollem to get it go wild and loose it with no taming/lore skills ?

Always under Vampiric Embrace form, being a sampire, correct ?

Also, you mentioned using Corpse Skin which reduces Fire and Poison resists by 15. Do you use it only to make more effective the 100% Poison Weapon, or do you actually also have on the Weapon some Hit property like Hit Poison Area or that uses Fire like Hit Fire Area or Hit Fireball ?

Thank you.

There's a whole thread on stratics detailed with vollums. Fresh popped they require 0 taming.

Don't take my word but I think 1 level up is something like 35/35 tame lore leaving plenty of character skill for more offense. 

Urge said:

There's a whole thread on stratics detailed with vollums. Fresh popped they require 0 taming.

Don't take my word but I think 1 level up is something like 35/35 tame lore leaving plenty of character skill for more offense. 

Well, @PlayerSkillFTW post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/87491/#Comment_87491 says clearly that his Template is using " 120 Swords/GM Tact/GM Anat/GM LJ/GM Necro/GM SS/GM Bush ".

I see no mention whatsoever of 35/35 Tame and Lore being in that Template to control a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum....

That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

Holy hell

Urge said:

That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

Holy hell

Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....

popps said:

Urge said:

That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

Holy hell

Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....

It take a little finagling to get the single round of training done and then bonded to the sampire, but it’s possible to do.  The trickier part is often keeping it alive in combat.  It’s obviously not super tanky, so you need mods targeted on the sampire to avoid the vollem taking too much damage.

The thread below has a screenshot of how I trained mine with 1 level of advancement.

https://community.stratics.com/threads/sampire-with-lesser-hiryu.417073/#post-3046266

Merus said:

popps said:

Urge said:

That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

Holy hell

Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....

It take a little finagling to get the single round of training done and then bonded to the sampire, but it’s possible to do.  The trickier part is often keeping it alive in combat.  It’s obviously not super tanky, so you need mods targeted on the sampire to avoid the vollem taking too much damage.

The thread below has a screenshot of how I trained mine with 1 level of advancement.

https://community.stratics.com/threads/sampire-with-lesser-hiryu.417073/#post-3046266

What I have been so far unable to understand, is how does one keep a Vollum healed up with a Sampire that has no vet and no Magery....

Sure, the Sampire attacks the UEV first and then calls in the Vollum but MoBs do retarget at times and there is always the chance of a 2nd UEV coming over or a Crazy Mage wandering in the area and targeting the Vollum...

And the Sampire cannot even cast Invisibility spell to break aggro on the Vollum....

And each time that the Vollum dies, it becomes a waste of time to get it ressed and back into the fight...

Question is, for a Sampire, the Vollum is an asset, or is it more of a liability ?

popps said:

Merus said:

popps said:

Urge said:

That's why I said don't take my word and told you where to get guaranteed numbers on all the levels. 

Holy hell

Yes, and that is why I asked in my post those questions to PlayerSkillFTW who can tell us what his experience has been with using a 1 level up 120 Discord Vollum without any Taming/Lore skill....

It take a little finagling to get the single round of training done and then bonded to the sampire, but it’s possible to do.  The trickier part is often keeping it alive in combat.  It’s obviously not super tanky, so you need mods targeted on the sampire to avoid the vollem taking too much damage.

The thread below has a screenshot of how I trained mine with 1 level of advancement.

https://community.stratics.com/threads/sampire-with-lesser-hiryu.417073/#post-3046266

What I have been so far unable to understand, is how does one keep a Vollum healed up with a Sampire that has no vet and no Magery....

Sure, the Sampire attacks the UEV first and then calls in the Vollum but MoBs do retarget at times and there is always the chance of a 2nd UEV coming over or a Crazy Mage wandering in the area and targeting the Vollum...

And the Sampire cannot even cast Invisibility spell to break aggro on the Vollum....

And each time that the Vollum dies, it becomes a waste of time to get it ressed and back into the fight...

Question is, for a Sampire, the Vollum is an asset, or is it more of a liability ?

You’re taking this too far, as usual.  Playing the game is playing the game.  Some will do it better than others.  Keeping the vollem alive isn’t a game mechanic issue, it’s a player skill/strategy issue.  If you suck at it, maybe it’s more of a liability.  Running your sampire into a herd of diseased blood elementals with the vollem in tow is probably going to get it killed.  If you practice a little awareness of surroundings and positioning, maybe you get better and it’s more of an asset.  

Park a 4x bard at the gate, then lure the UEV over to discord and AI it to death. 

Here's the Disco+AP Vollem that my Sampire uses.

“Not sure if there’s something wrong with this website or if they’re shadowbanning popp’s threads. They don’t appear to be moving to most recent for me when someone comments.

some really interesting info here, so you can control 4 slot 120 discordance vollem without any taming/lore skill?”

Yoshi said:

“Not sure if there’s something wrong with this website or if they’re shadowbanning popp’s threads. They don’t appear to be moving to most recent for me when someone comments.

some really interesting info here, so you can control 4 slot 120 discordance vollem without any taming/lore skill?”

That is what I still do not understand.... I thought, that the Vollem being used was a 1 or at most 2 slots Vollem which had only undergone training to get 120 Discordance but now I see that it is a 4 slot Vollem and I am getting even more confused....

@PlayerSkillFTW , could you please, kindly clarify whether you have any Taming/Lore on your Sampire or whether you are being able to control a 4 slots trained up Vollem with no Taming and Lore whatsoever ?

Thank you very much.

@popps ;  , @Yoshi and others. 
1 rule: anyone can control any pet with 30 and lower taming requirement. Trained or not trained.    Be it horse , beetle or Lowand Boura.   
2. Vollems start (current ones) with 3 slots , innate magery , dragon breath , etc.    See uo-ch for more. And they have around  -21 (minus 21) taming requirement. 
3. advanced training costs around 21 taming requirement on first improvement and each improvement (resist, skill , powerscroll, stat) also adds 2.5 (sometimes 2 sometimes 3) or so.  Each time you press "apply training" requirement will incease. Doesnt matter you add 5 HP regen or 20. 

If after training  and allocating what you need you are still below  30 - than anyone can control pet. 
This way  Yoshi can make himself 2 battle dogs with Nausea and Vicious bite for his PvP adventures.  By the way , dog will have 2280 points to allocale on first training level. Not 1500 like other pets do.
To train vollem/dog/ferret (to activate training) you  need 10+ taming /lore. Buy from stables or use jewels. To finish it and assign points you need 30+.  After training finished and your pet is below 30 - you can drop it. If you are greedy and went above 30 - then you ruined pet. 

There are lots of dogs, cats and rats in Brit on Test Server. go and try. 
Mr Pickles on below picture is in training , after 2 improvements he has 3 taming difficulty. And 2088 points to use for it. 

Gwen said:

@ popps   , @ Yoshi and others. 
1 rule: anyone can control any pet with 30 and lower taming requirement. Trained or not trained.    Be it horse , beetle or Lowand Boura.   
2. Vollems start (current ones) with 3 slots , innate magery , dragon breath , etc.    See uo-ch for more. And they have around  -21 (minus 21) taming requirement. 
3. advanced training costs around 21 taming requirement on first improvement and each improvement (resist, skill , powerscroll, stat) also adds 2.5 (sometimes 2 sometimes 3) or so.  Each time you press "apply training" requirement will incease. Doesnt matter you add 5 HP regen or 20. 

If after training  and allocating what you need you are still below  30 - than anyone can control pet. 
This way  Yoshi can make himself 2 battle dogs with Nausea and Vicious bite for his PvP adventures.  By the way , dog will have 2280 points to allocale on first training level. Not 1500 like other pets do.
To train vollem/dog/ferret (to activate training) you  need 10+ taming /lore. Buy from stables or use jewels. To finish it and assign points you need 30+.  After training finished and your pet is below 30 - you can drop it. If you are greedy and went above 30 - then you ruined pet. 

There are lots of dogs, cats and rats in Brit on Test Server. go and try. 
Mr Pickles on below picture is in training , after 2 improvements he has 3 taming difficulty. And 2088 points to use for it. 

@Gwen ;

Then, Entropy, the Disco+AP Vollem that is shown in the Post above, had all that training from its native 3 slots to the 4 shown ?

I read 503 Strength 303 Hit Points, 150 Dexterity/Stamina, 125 Intelligence/138 Mana, Physical/Fire/Energy Resistances 80, Poison 33, Cold 30 and enhancements in Discordance 120 and Armor Pierce all done from slot 3 to slot 4 in 1 training ?

And the Picture still does not show the 3 Regens....

It would be nice to know what the 3 Regens for the ENTROPY Vollem are at.

How many Training Points are in 1 from slot to slot train up ? 1,200something ?

And, the Taming requirement is still under 30 ?

I do not know what to say.....

popps said:

I do not know what to say.....

Wait till he learns prepatch vols are only 2 slots! 

Urge said:

popps said:

I do not know what to say.....

Wait till he learns prepatch vols are only 2 slots! 

Ah, so, if I am understanding it correctly, we are NOT talking about a Vollem that every player can use... but of some rare, exclusive pet that some players might have, but that most other players cannot?

I see.... it then hardly can help the average player, I would imagine....

Furthermore, Gwen mentioned that, in order to be able to control the per without Taming and Animal Lore skills, like for example for a Sampire, the Taming requirement for that trained up per should be below 30.

Now, is it then possible that, even for a pre-patch Vollem that started at 2 slots, when undergone 2 levels of training to 4 slots, that Vollem would still be under 30 as a Taming requirement ?

Yoshi said:

"this thread is actually really interesting, it's a shame it's shadowbanned

i imagine having a prepatch 2 slot one wouldn't benefit you if you can still only put it through one round of training"

Idk the exact numbers but around 65/65 is 100% control for a 5 slot. I'm sure someone could build a very effective temp around that in pvm or pvp. 

Estimated numbers can be found here. Someone posted different results happened with different a different vol. 


https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/

Urge said:

Estimated numbers can be found here. Someone posted different results happened with different a different vol. 


https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/

Well, thanks for that link.

It looks like that, this Post in that Thread https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/post-2890243 , indicates as Taming/Lore requirements : 

Vollem
2 slots 0 skill
3 slot 6 skill -> 49
4 slot 49 -> 70
5 slot 70 -> 82

Since that Vollem named ENTROPY shows in the picture posted as a 4 slots Vollem, I therefore seem to understand that a Sampire, in order to control it, would need to accomodate within the Template 49 -> 70 in Skill.

Not sure if that means per  skill, like 49 -> 70 for Animal Taming + 49 -> 70 for Animal Lore or that is in between the 2 Taming/Lore skills.

It still is, either way, quite a lot of skill points to have to "squeeze" in a Sampire Template to bring a Vollem along in the fight....

YET, the picture taken of the Lore for ENTROPY Vollem, shows the Taming requirement as 27.0. which is a whole lot less skill points as 49 -> 70 ......

@PlayerSkillFTW , please, could you help us understand the discussion better, clarifying whether your Sampire actually has any Animal Taming and Animal Lore and how much, in order to be able to control your Entropy Vollem ?

Thank you so much.

EDIT.

Further reading that Stratics Thread, there is this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/post-2890251 indicating that a 4 Slot Vollem shows as Requirement 34.0 .
Not sure if that means only in the Animal Taming skill or in both, Taming and  Animal Lore....

And this Post https://community.stratics.com/threads/training-a-vollem-held-in-a-crystal.393713/post-2890255 right after the one just linked, mentions...

This is interesting. The guy I mentioned now has one at 3 slots with 120 discord, resists, etc and it only requires 22 taming.

While these 2 other posts seems to be in line with the picture of ENTROPY showing how that 4 slots Vollem might only have a Taming requirement of 27.0, I am even more confused now.... apparently, the range for Taming/Lore "requirements" can vary significantly from Vollem to Vollem even when the number of slots and, thus, advancement in training for those Vollems, is the same....

It looks like to me, that not all Vollems are made equal, they do not have same Taming requirements under the same conditions, and things can vary significantly from Vollem to Vollem ?

Hence, if so, telling to a fellow player to go hunt a Monster with a Sampire and a Vollem is not exactly "that" much feasible and easy, when it would require a particular and rare Vollem, in order to be something doable...

You could dig up your own posts on Stratics where you basically asked the same questions 2 years ago and ironically was answered by playerskill there as well. 

PlayerSkillFTW said:

My Sampire has 0 Taming/Lore (doesn't have JoAT, and doesn't use skill jewelry), and is able to control his Vollem just fine.

That Vollem was a current 3 slot Vollem, that i slot leveled to 4 and gave abilities to (it does have 0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR). I had to be careful not to add too many selections, or his Taming requirement would've went above 30.0, and i wouldn't be able to control him then if it did.

My Sampire's Vollem provides 120 Discord (which is a very powerful debuff), and also applies Armor Pierce, which makes the victim take 10% more damage from all sources for 3 seconds (further increasing my damage output).

My Prospector (Mining/LJ/Fishing) char uses a pre-patch 2 slot Vollem that was leveled to 3 slots, so it can guard him as he uses a 1 slot Fire Beetle and 1 slot Giant Beetle at the same time. The Vollem is Magery+AI, and kills basically anything i come across as i harvest resources.

Downside to pre-patch is, that a pre-patch Vollem leveled once, doesn't end up with as high of a Base Damage as a current Vollem leveled once (Base Damage from slot leveling is limited to the slot count).

@PlayerSkillFTW

Thank you for your clarification, it surely helps a lot to better understand.

I still have a few more questions, if i can ask, to further understand.

You mention in this last reply, "I had to be careful not to add too many selections, or his Taming requirement would've went above 30.0, and i wouldn't be able to control him then if it did. ".

I was not aware of the fact that one can "estimate", while undergoing the "Planning" of a pet's Training, how each and every single decision may impact that pet's Taming Requirement.

In the Pet Training PLANNER, I cannot see, when planning a given investment of training points on ones own pet, "how" that sending of points would then affect the Taming requirement for that pet.

And also the UO CAH "Pet Planner" at https://www.uo-cah.com/pet-planner , that I know of, does not have among its features the ability to see how a Planned Training for a pet would eventually impact its Taming Requirements.

So, may I ask how you were able to "monitor", while you were planning the Vollem Training, adding what and how many points would then have had what impact on its final Taming Requirement ?

You cleared also that the Vollem was a 3 slot so, it only underwent 1 training stage.

From the Picture you have posted of ENTROPY, I can see that in 1 Training stage it was added:

Resists 80/80/30/33/80  --> how many training points spent here ?
Hit Points 303 --> how many training points spent here ?
Strength 511 --> how many training points spent here ?
Dexterity/Stamina 150 (but this should not require any sending of training points if done before the training).
Discordance 120 + Armor Pierce Enhancements. 501+100=601 points
0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR as you kindly clarified in your last post. 48+360=408 points

Without knowing what the starting intensity was of your 3 slots Vollem (i.e. the starting stats to which you then applied the 1 stage training to bring it to where it is now), it is not possible to figure out whether your 3 slots Vollem was a very high (and rare to get) Intensity Vollem or just an ordinary, average one.

But, to reach that training in just 1 stage of Training seems a whole lot of points considering that the Enhancements and Regens alone already used up 1,009 training points and that 1 Training Stage gives a total, if I remember correctly, of about 1,500 training points.

Thus, how could you be able, with 491 points left, to fit in all those Resists, Hit Points and Strength, assuming that you raised the Dexterity to 150 before actually starting the 1 stage Training of Entropy ?

Thank you so much for the kind help and clarification to better understand.

popps said:

So, may I ask how you were able to "monitor", while you were planning the Vollem Training, adding what and how many points would then have had what impact on its final Taming Requirement ?

You cleared also that the Vollem was a 3 slot so, it only underwent 1 training stage.

From the Picture you have posted of ENTROPY, I can see that in 1 Training stage it was added:

Resists 80/80/30/33/80  --> how many training points spent here ?
Hit Points 303 --> how many training points spent here ?
Strength 511 --> how many training points spent here ?
Dexterity/Stamina 150 (but this should not require any sending of training points if done before the training).
Discordance 120 + Armor Pierce Enhancements. 501+100=601 points
0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR as you kindly clarified in your last post. 48+360=408 points

Without knowing what the starting intensity was of your 3 slots Vollem (i.e. the starting stats to which you then applied the 1 stage training to bring it to where it is now), it is not possible to figure out whether your 3 slots Vollem was a very high (and rare to get) Intensity Vollem or just an ordinary, average one.

But, to reach that training in just 1 stage of Training seems a whole lot of points considering that the Enhancements and Regens alone already used up 1,009 training points and that 1 Training Stage gives a total, if I remember correctly, of about 1,500 training points.

Thus, how could you be able, with 491 points left, to fit in all those Resists, Hit Points and Strength, assuming that you raised the Dexterity to 150 before actually starting the 1 stage Training of Entropy ?

PlayerSkillFTW said:

popps said:

So, may I ask how you were able to "monitor", while you were planning the Vollem Training, adding what and how many points would then have had what impact on its final Taming Requirement ?

You cleared also that the Vollem was a 3 slot so, it only underwent 1 training stage.

From the Picture you have posted of ENTROPY, I can see that in 1 Training stage it was added:

Resists 80/80/30/33/80  --> how many training points spent here ?
Hit Points 303 --> how many training points spent here ?
Strength 511 --> how many training points spent here ?
Dexterity/Stamina 150 (but this should not require any sending of training points if done before the training).
Discordance 120 + Armor Pierce Enhancements. 501+100=601 points
0 HPR/4 SR/30 MR as you kindly clarified in your last post. 48+360=408 points

Without knowing what the starting intensity was of your 3 slots Vollem (i.e. the starting stats to which you then applied the 1 stage training to bring it to where it is now), it is not possible to figure out whether your 3 slots Vollem was a very high (and rare to get) Intensity Vollem or just an ordinary, average one.

But, to reach that training in just 1 stage of Training seems a whole lot of points considering that the Enhancements and Regens alone already used up 1,009 training points and that 1 Training Stage gives a total, if I remember correctly, of about 1,500 training points.

Thus, how could you be able, with 491 points left, to fit in all those Resists, Hit Points and Strength, assuming that you raised the Dexterity to 150 before actually starting the 1 stage Training of Entropy ?

I first tested the build on TC to ensure that the Vollem's final build would be under 30.0 Taming requirement.

DEX/Stam were trained up to 125 naturally, then boosted to 150 with slot leveling. STR and HP were untouched. The only resists i touched was bringing Physical/Fire/Energy to max of 80. Discordance+120 Discord Scroll+AP were 701 points total.

I actually could've gotten slightly more mana regeneration rate on that Vollem if i went for 700 INT, instead of 30 MR.

I actually could've gotten slightly more mana regeneration rate on that Vollem if i went for 700 INT, instead of 30 MR.

@PlayerSkillFTW

Thank you for the further explaination which helps understand better the training choices.

if going for 700 Intelligence instead of 30 MR would have given you a slightly higher regeneration rate, why did you choose otherwise ?

What was your thinking against it ?