Paragon's retargeting.... what am I doing wrong ?

Something here is not working as it should.... me thinks....

I cast a summon, then cast invisibility on myself in order to get the Paragon aggro on the summon.... of course, being a Paragon, I unfortunately get revealed back right away and guess what ? The Paragon shifts from the summon and retargets me right after getting revealed....

Of course, being on foot (better summons, necessary for Paragons, are 5 slots), forget about trying to outrun the Paragon.... I even tried setting myself further away from the Paragon as compared to my summon thinking, that with my summon closer to the Paragon, the Paragon would stick on the summon and not on me... mind you, of course I stay still since movement attracts Paragons' attention....

Forget about it... even with me being further away as compared to my summon, the Paragon still disregards the summon and targets on me....

Yes, I can recast invisibility and that is what I usually try to do but, with protection on, too often my faster casting is so slow, that I find myself dead from the Paragon before I can finish my invisibility spell....

It looks to me, that Paragons' retargeting, speed, focusing on targets depending on their range from them (they should always prioritize closer targets...) is all screwed up....to the point of making these Events with such a low playability and success rate for certain templates that they are hardly any fun to be played...

Dieing a few times is OK, dieing all the time becomes only an annoyance, to my opinion, which takes the fun away from the gamelay while the playing of games, should all be about having fun and enjoy one's own time spent with them....

Oh well....

It's just bad luck sometimes I die 5 times before it locks on my pet

McDougle said:

It's just bad luck sometimes I die 5 times before it locks on my pet

Is it ?

Or is it perhaps the way it has been Designed to work ?

To my opinion, the mechanics should be less frustrating on players and more of a reliable one....

popps said:

Something here is not working as it should.... me thinks....

I cast a summon, then cast invisibility on myself in order to get the Paragon aggro on the summon.... of course, being a Paragon, I unfortunately get revealed back right away and guess what ? The Paragon shifts from the summon and retargets me right after getting revealed....

Of course, being on foot (better summons, necessary for Paragons, are 5 slots), forget about trying to outrun the Paragon.... I even tried setting myself further away from the Paragon as compared to my summon thinking, that with my summon closer to the Paragon, the Paragon would stick on the summon and not on me... mind you, of course I stay still since movement attracts Paragons' attention....

Forget about it... even with me being further away as compared to my summon, the Paragon still disregards the summon and targets on me....

Yes, I can recast invisibility and that is what I usually try to do but, with protection on, too often my faster casting is so slow, that I find myself dead from the Paragon before I can finish my invisibility spell....

It looks to me, that Paragons' retargeting, speed, focusing on targets depending on their range from them (they should always prioritize closer targets...) is all screwed up....to the point of making these Events with such a low playability and success rate for certain templates that they are hardly any fun to be played...

Dieing a few times is OK, dieing all the time becomes only an annoyance, to my opinion, which takes the fun away from the gamelay while the playing of games, should all be about having fun and enjoy one's own time spent with them....

Oh well....

Why are you only casting summons and invising? No wonder your having a hard time.

Yes by design. People complained about afk farming by tamers in Blackthorns. So they got rid of the mobs there and made future dungeons not afk friendly.

I have told you how not get targeted every time these are out and you won't listen. You can search for the answer. Not going to go round and round with you.

The few mobs here are much more conducive to a melee toon anyway.

Didn't he complain about this before and it was locked?  Hard to remember because he complains about everything.

You have to run on the first level so that if the para is at one end you are at least in the middle of the dungeon before you cast invis and then wait forever to disappear. Sometimes if the para is chasing you and close when you invis, you have to run and invis a second time or it will retarget you.  Some paras even though they are fighting your pet will retarget you when you come back because of the threat you represent.  Para shadow wyrms almost always drop every thing to go after my mage if I get close enough to hit one.  In short you are not putting enough distance between you and the para before you invis.  Since you are on foot, you may have difficulty getting far enough away to invis before getting killed.  My character is mounted and moving as fast as he can.

Just a thought.  If you cast your summons from a distance of around 18 before the para sees you and then disappear the summons will target the para and the para will go after the summons.  You can then cast a second summons. I use this tech. a lot and it does work.  A fair amount of the time you can then go in and get some hits.  But not always, depends on the para.  Some dispel your summons so quickly you don’t have time to cast a direct damage spell, and some are smart enough to target you.  I use it to solo para drakes.

If you can cast a summons why aren’t you mounted on one of those mounts you can keep on your backpack?  You could then put enough distance between you and the para that you could invis.  That would be more effective for breaking the lock than casting a summons when it comes to dragons.

Sometimes I find revealing myself to be a better option than waiting for the paragon to reveal me.  Right after you cast invis, speak overhead and see if that helps with the retargeting due to being revealed.

Arnold7 said:

You have to run on the first level so that if the para is at one end you are at least in the middle of the dungeon before you cast invis and then wait forever to disappear. Sometimes if the para is chasing you and close when you invis, you have to run and invis a second time or it will retarget you.  Some paras even though they are fighting your pet will retarget you when you come back because of the threat you represent.  Para shadow wyrms almost always drop every thing to go after my mage if I get close enough to hit one.  In short you are not putting enough distance between you and the para before you invis.  Since you are on foot, you may have difficulty getting far enough away to invis before getting killed.  My character is mounted and moving as fast as he can.

Sometimes if the para is chasing you and close when you invis, you have to run and invis a second time or it will retarget you. 

That is what I try to do.... unfortunately, paragons move quite faster then a character on foot and, the fact that, as a spellcaster, I have to have Protection on, does not help being able to cast invisibility before the Paragon gets me... hell, I often am killed even before my invisibility spell casting ends..... the penalty for having protection to faster casting is simply too heavy or, some Paragons just blow too strongly....

Arnold7 said:

If you can cast a summons why aren’t you mounted on one of those mounts you can keep on your backpack?  You could then put enough distance between you and the para that you could invis.  That would be more effective for breaking the lock than casting a summons when it comes to dragons.

It probably is my connection or the fact that I do not run UO on a SSD, not sure, but I simply have nowhere the fastness to be able to dismount, cast a 5 slots summon and then cast invisibility on myself, fast enough for the Paragon to stick on the Summon and not come after me....

So, what I do, is move slowly as I am always on foot, and then, when I spot a Paragon that I can deal with, I cast my Summon from a distance right next to the Paragon and then cast invisibility on myself... unfortunately, most of the time, even though I am positioned way farther as my summon is, in reference to the Paragon, and I have cast invisibility on myself, to break aggro on me, since Paragons can reveal at quite a very large distance, immediately (a small delay could help here...), as soon as I get revealed, most of the time the Paragon disregards the summon and comes after me... of course, since I am on foot, and with Protection on, the Paragon easily reaches me and, depending on what Paragon it is, it also often kills me even before my 2nd invisibility cast on myself ends the interminable casting sequence due to having Protection on (the casting penalty is really too harsh here...).

I turned one of my tamer into gargoyle always run protection..

Did not think you could cast a summons if you have a five slot pet.  Not a tamer so don’t know too much about that.  But think with some players getting killed is part of their strategy.  They and their pet do as much damage as possible and if they are killed they rez and finish it off.  Seems a little against human nature we are not brought to think that way.  But in this game it makes sense.  My mage goes down so fast it would not work for me, but if the warrior I am working on could do sufficient damage before going down I might adopt it for him.  Know you don’t like getting killed but with UO you have to adapt your style of play to the game.  One death costs me about $9,000 gold.  If I get killed 10 times, and I don’t like getting killed either, it costs me $90,000.  But if I get a drop I can sell it for around 1 million gold.  Anyway maybe getting killed isn’t always that bad a deal.  Only sold ten drops but that more than paid for all my deaths.

Arnold7 said:

If you can cast a summons why aren’t you mounted on one of those mounts you can keep on your backpack?  You could then put enough distance between you and the para that you could invis.  That would be more effective for breaking the lock than casting a summons when it comes to dragons.

one can not ride anything if casting RC as it requires 5 slots

Did not realize it was an rc.  Can you cast an rc if you are a tamer with a pet.  Was thinking from a survival point of view the mount would be better than the summons if you were looking to escape.

Arnold7 said:

Did not realize it was an rc.  Can you cast an rc if you are a tamer with a pet.  Was thinking from a survival point of view the mount would be better than the summons if you were looking to escape.

I don't think so, sadly. Many a times my Casting CR or reaper fizzled, all because I was mounted on my ethereal ride....

On a side note, when casting RC in a dangerous place, I go into stone form or reaper form to max my SDI and spam hailstorm (found this to be best spell against dragons)

As a tamer in the dungeon I discovered that the optimum distance from my pet to cast heals is 10 tiles. At that distance the mob should be at 11 tiles with the pet between you. Also at that distance you can invis and stay that way, revealing to cast a heal on your pet and re-invising. If your pet is fighting a mob that is likely to invis itself, tell your pet to 'follow' with the mob as target. This will reduce the chances of your pet running back to you if it invises, thus putting you in more danger.

Petra_Fyde said:

As a tamer in the dungeon I discovered that the optimum distance from my pet to cast heals is 10 tiles. At that distance the mob should be at 11 tiles with the pet between you. Also at that distance you can invis and stay that way, revealing to cast a heal on your pet and re-invising. If your pet is fighting a mob that is likely to invis itself, tell your pet to 'follow' with the mob as target. This will reduce the chances of your pet running back to you if it invises, thus putting you in more danger.

It was my understanding that Paragons could reveal at a 12 tiles distance..... they are limited at 10 tiles ?

I can only tell you that at that distance I successfully took on paragons with my tamer on Origin, keep in mind it was the PET that was at 10 tiles, the paragon was beyond that. Not the really nasty ones, but up to weald protector.
I haven't been in the dungeon in several days though, the reason being that I have gotten all the items I wanted from it on both shards that I play.

It must be something in the code, I suspect....

Because I noticed, that if I cast invisibility on myself and a Paragon is around, even if a Summon is nearby, I have the impression that the Paragon, when I cast invisibility on myself, never really looses aggro on me so, when I get revealed because it is a Paragon, regardless that a summon is much nearer to the Paragon as compared to my character, often the Paragon retargets on me.

YET, as I use gift of life from spellweaving, I noticed that, instead, if I get killed from the paragon, after dieing, the Paragon aggros on the Summon and, when I use gift of life and resurrect, oddily enough, the Paragon stays aggroed on the Summon and does not retarget on my character.

Of course, as I move, then the Paragon retargets on me.

So, I suspect that the casting of inisibility, for some coding mulfunctioning, does not really end for good the Paragon's aggro on that character which gets resumed, right after the character gets revealed because of the Paragon revealing ability....

Dieing, instead, seems to end for good being aggroed until something else happens, like moving, which makes one get retargeted again.

Perhaps, code should be looked at to make the casting of invisibility more reliable and working towards ending for good Monsters and Paragons aggroing on a character ?

@Kyronix , please, .would it be possible to give a look at it ? Being able to reliably end being aggroed on through the casting of the invisibility spell is, I think, important.
Thanks.

One Workaround is to use a Gargoyle Tamer Mage so it can run away fast.  

Seth said:

One Workaround is to use a Gargoyle Tamer Mage so it can run away fast.  

I have thought about it... but it also has its downsides... being a Gargoyle can be an advantage but also brings hindrances.... I eventually preferred being an elf....

popps said:

Seth said:

One Workaround is to use a Gargoyle Tamer Mage so it can run away fast.  

I have thought about it... but it also has its downsides... being a Gargoyle can be an advantage but also brings hindrances.... I eventually preferred being an elf....

Yup, there is a trade off as advantage to fly. Other workaround include a second account to heal or invis your main player. Or you can call a group to seal off the choke point at the Ankh by energy shield and luring paragons there. It can also be used as a base. You can always call on global chat for everyone to help. They will be summoned instantly to aid during any one hour gameplay your choose anytime. 

Btw, the above was done at Hythloth at Atlantic and my shard. Only diff is we didn't have to call players to help as players setup safe zone automatically.

Have seen this thread about s tamer’s vulnerability now a couple of times.  Bottom line is the underlying UO philosophy regarding players.  Some, maybe most, tamers have pets that can easily solo para greater dragons with a little help from the tamer.  To offset this advantage tamers have, UO has their pets take up five slots so that the trainer has to be on foot and vulnerable.  Allowing tamers to be mounted would give them an unfair advantage over other players.  So this is not going to change.  Can’t put into words right now what this philosophy is called but it applies I think to all UO skill sets.  It’s the reason life leech and I believe word of death does not work on paragons.  Even though everything negative being said about a tamer’s vulnerability may be true it is not going to change because it is working as intended.  Players need to learn their characters.  My mage treasure hunter can’t melee any non para greater dragon but using a hit and run technique he kills them just the same.

Arnold7 said:

Have seen this thread about s tamer’s vulnerability now a couple of times.  Bottom line is the underlying UO philosophy regarding players.  Some, maybe most, tamers have pets that can easily solo para greater dragons with a little help from the tamer.  To offset this advantage tamers have, UO has their pets take up five slots so that the trainer has to be on foot and vulnerable.  Allowing tamers to be mounted would give them an unfair advantage over other players.  So this is not going to change.  Can’t put into words right now what this philosophy is called but it applies I think to all UO skill sets.  It’s the reason life leech and I believe word of death does not work on paragons.  Even though everything negative being said about a tamer’s vulnerability may be true it is not going to change because it is working as intended.  Players need to learn their characters.  My mage treasure hunter can’t melee any non para greater dragon but using a hit and run technique he kills them just the same.

But a Tamer's pet, while being 5 slots, is enormousily more powerfull as any Summon that a spellcaster might cast and, yet, there is Summons out there which, even not being remotedly anywhere close to a pet, still count as 5 slots followers...

Me thinks, that Summons should be reduced in the number of slots which they take as followers...

popps said:

Arnold7 said:

Have seen this thread about s tamer’s vulnerability now a couple of times.  Bottom line is the underlying UO philosophy regarding players.  Some, maybe most, tamers have pets that can easily solo para greater dragons with a little help from the tamer.  To offset this advantage tamers have, UO has their pets take up five slots so that the trainer has to be on foot and vulnerable.  Allowing tamers to be mounted would give them an unfair advantage over other players.  So this is not going to change.  Can’t put into words right now what this philosophy is called but it applies I think to all UO skill sets.  It’s the reason life leech and I believe word of death does not work on paragons.  Even though everything negative being said about a tamer’s vulnerability may be true it is not going to change because it is working as intended.  Players need to learn their characters.  My mage treasure hunter can’t melee any non para greater dragon but using a hit and run technique he kills them just the same.

But a Tamer's pet, while being 5 slots, is enormousily more powerfull as any Summon that a spellcaster might cast and, yet, there is Summons out there which, even not being remotedly anywhere close to a pet, still count as 5 slots followers...

Me thinks, that Summons should be reduced in the number of slots which they take as followers...

Me also think colossus is not worth 5 slots

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

So you expect to get drops using a template from the 90s and 2000s? Summons have never been for mass killing.

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

so you are using a tamer with no pet? and using summons?  I have heard it all now.......

WHY are you fighting Para with summons? 

I just cant help you, you are too far gone. If it's not thieves in para dungeons it's now this, do you go out of your way to NOT do what everyone else is doing?

Or are you speaking for others again?

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

so you are using a tamer with no pet? and using summons?  I have heard it all now.......

WHY are you fighting Para with summons? 

I just cant help you, you are too far gone. If it's not thieves in para dungeons it's now this, do you go out of your way to NOT do what everyone else is doing?

Or are you speaking for others again?

When did he say he was a tamer, huh?

Is this his mage with no Eval?

Popps could use some clarification here.  In most of your other discussions regarding this issue you are a tamer.  Assumed same was true here.  Sorry see you did that earlier.

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

Archangel said:

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

Popps are you taking a triton in? Please do NOT tell me this

I am talking about Summons, not pets....

so you are using a tamer with no pet? and using summons?  I have heard it all now.......

WHY are you fighting Para with summons? 

I just cant help you, you are too far gone. If it's not thieves in para dungeons it's now this, do you go out of your way to NOT do what everyone else is doing?

Or are you speaking for others again?

When did he say he was a tamer, huh?

He jumps from tamers to casters to suit his debate. He is the peoples champion after all. He talks pets then summons then gargs to elves just to add confusion to his arguments 

Arnold7 said:

Popps could use some clarification here.  In most of your other discussions regarding this issue you are a tamer.  Assumed same was true here.  Sorry see you did that earlier.

Using a spellcaster with, all 120 Spellweaving, Necromancy, Spirit Speak, Meditation, Mageryand Resisting Spells.

The Summon that I am talking about is a Reaper, not a Colossus because I do not have Mysticism.
Since Mysticism asks for Focus, while Spellweaving is standalone but relies heavily on Arcane Circle and, thus, requires having the Spellweaving Mastery for a 6 Circle and better strength spellweaving spells, I can save up 120 skill points not needing the Focus skill this way... of course, I have the downside that the Reaper is a static Summon whereas the RC can move and this creates lots of issues when Monsters do not stick with the Summon but retarget on player's characters... the Reaper cannot follow them around as a RC can do.......

This might be the wrong thread but this explains why your drops are so low. Summoning a reaper to kill stuff as a non-garg is probably the worst strategy there is if your goal is to maximize drops. You will be on foot most of the time and your summons are static. This wasn't a bad template to use during the first week of the event but it's no longer relevant.

You could also probably drop meditation for eval given you have Necro/SS AND you are usually going to be on foot anyway (wraith form gives you mana from damage).

Weaving totally not good for this event and he plays on cats so no need to run the mastery as getting a focus easy 

Maybe try your template with eval intel ring and bracelet with 20 eval intel on each and a wizards curio talisman with 10 eval intel  and a spellbook having around 10 eval intel and see how it plays.  Know this would screw up your suit but just saying you give it a try to see how your template works with eval intel.  Think in wrath form using the death ray your template could do a tremendous amount of damage.

if you like the way it plays, maybe stone of resist spells or meditation and add eval intel.  Enchanted apples could help a lot if you stone off resist spells.  Maybe wraith form could compensate for meditation.  But would think with 120 eval intel your template could do a lot more damage than you are doing now.

Arnold7 said:

Maybe try your template with eval intel ring and bracelet with 20 eval intel on each and a wizards curio talisman with 10 eval intel  and a spellbook having around 10 eval intel and see how it plays.  Know this would screw up your suit but just saying you give it a try to see how your template works with eval intel.  Think in wrath form using the death ray your template could do a tremendous amount of damage.

if you like the way it plays, maybe stone of resist spells or meditation and add eval intel.  Enchanted apples could help a lot if you stone off resist spells.  Maybe wraith form could compensate for meditation.  But would think with 120 eval intel your template could do a lot more damage than you are doing now.

The thing is, that I was naive enough to think, that the Developers, since suits built around Luck are clearly less capable of fighting, since the template has less skills, less properties and lower properties which matter in order to try increase worn Luck, would have Designed the related mechanics in a BALANCED OUT way....

That is, that even if a character in a Luck suit was to kill lower fame Monsters and at a slower pace, the INCREASED chances at a drop would have compensated this much reduced fighting capability with raising the chances at a drop even when fighting smaller Monsters and at a slower pace...

Unfortunately, it looks to me, that this is not the case.... that is, that while Luck might help, it does it only MARGINALLY, the code STILL requires to kill hard stuff and at a fast pace...

Which it makes no sense to me, since, as we know, building a suit around Luck severely limits the fighting capability of a template.

@Kyronix , perhaps it is necessary to give a good look at how Luck works, and make it so that higher Luck will increasingly be raising chances at a drop even when only fighting lower fame monsters and at a much slower pace as compared to those who wearno Luck or only little Luck on their suits but are more fighting capable ?

 😂 

Besides the eggs and dungeon, they can add casinos at the entrance... anyone tired of eggs and robes can try their luck at Baccarat (edit: with luck suit on)

Stop bashing luck suits popps all mine are all 70s with 100 lrc 40 lmc with plenty of other mods for casters or studded 55lmc for archer or plate with tons of extra stamina for macer ....all above 2200 luck without statue 

Seth said:

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

That's like me standing perfectly still as my pet tanks the Paragon, then some doofus comes running up/past, i'm like "hold still, he aggros on movement", then the person screams "LEROY JENKINS!" while running full speed, and gets pwned in 2 seconds by the Paragon. Sucks even more when the person gets away and i'm now having to chase the damn Paragon with my pet and an invis ready for when it switches to me.

To be honest standing around does not work for me.  If I stand still while a para is chasing another player, yes it usually works but I don’t get any points that way.  As soon as I jump in close enough to cast or actually cast a spell the paragon esp. the paragon shadow wyrm, is all over me.  What do you expect me to do?  I have all ready lost 20 to 60 points and the para is out for more.  Now it does not always happen that way.  Sometimes the para does not target me and I get to help kill it.  If I were a tamer maybe standing still might work but I am not a tamer.  It does work if I cast ev’s and keep my distance but they don’t do much damage.  If a para locks on them I can sometimes do substacial damage if the EV lasts for awhile.  Anyway, if you know of a killing technique that standing still works with I would be happy to try it out as a necro mage with spellweaving.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Seth said:

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

The EV is also a hell of a lot weaker than the RC.

Here's a comparison of the lore window between a maxed out EV, and a maxed out RC.

The RC has higher Base Damage (hits harder), 580 more STR (hits harder), has 20 more Tactics (hits harder), has 120 more Anatomy (hits harder), has AI (so his attacks can actually bypass Resists to deal the full damage of his 780 STR/120 Tact/120 Anat hits), and he has Mysticism spells on top of that, with full 120 Mysticism/Focus. He also has over 3x the HP of an EV. The RC is the King of the Summons for good reason. A single RC can out damage and out tank 2 EVs.

Yoshi said:

“ @ popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Yep. I can't believe that so many people STILL haven't figured this out yet 18 years after Paragons were first introduced. Fast movement (running) catches their attention and causes them to re-target. They're like the T-Rex from Jurassic Park.

That's like me standing perfectly still as my pet tanks the Paragon, then some doofus comes running up/past, i'm like "hold still, he aggros on movement", then the person screams "LEROY JENKINS!" while running full speed, and gets pwned in 2 seconds by the Paragon. Sucks even more when the person gets away and i'm now having to chase the damn Paragon with my pet and an invis ready for when it switches to me.

@PlayerSkillFTW ;

You talk about a comparison between a "maxed out " EV and a "maxed out " RC.

What do you mean by "maxed out" ?

They do not spawn with always the same stats ?

It is random what stats they get or does it depend on something to spawn with "maxed out" stats ?

Thanks.

Yoshi said:

“ @ popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Thanks Yoshi for the tip... I already have it unchecked and, actually, I hardly run because, costing summons 5 slots, I am always on foot and running against a Paragon is really a futile excercise....

Instead, I cast continuously invisibility on myself, sometimes I walk (not run) 1 or 2 tiles further away from the Paragon before recasting invisibility on myself.... sometimes the Paragon retargets onto the Summon, most times, though, as soon as I get revealed again (because of the Paragon), the Paragon retargets on me rather then on my Summon and this, even though I am fartheraway from the Paragon as compared to my Summon...

I suspect, that the cause of this is a problem in the code....

That is, that there is a "timer" for a Monster before it "drops aggro" on a target and aggros something else with running being an exception for Paragons whereas, running while in range, immediately attracts their attention....

Basically, what I suspect happens is that the Paragon's revealing ability is too instant and does not permit for their aggro on my character to drop since that aggro drop timer is not met... therefore, regardless my casting invisibiity on myself, since the Paragon reveals me right away, the aggro resumes as if it had not been broken... and, thus, the Paragon hardly aggros on my summon, rather then on me.

The way that it should work, instead, should be, to my opinion, that casting invisibility should break immediately the Monster's aggro and then, that the Paragon's reveal should not be instantaneous but, instead, there should be like 10-15 seconds during which the revealing ability of Paragon's does not work on the character that just cast invisibility on themselves so that the Paragon would have the time for the aggro to switch onto another target in range.... for example the Summon...

Of course, as it is now, running around a Paragon would not have this 10-15 seconda delay but would occur right away, no delay needed. The delay, would only be for characters that get invised.

What do you think, @Kyronix , do you want to check whether this that I describe might be the problem and make adjustments to it so as to make the game more playable ?
Thanks !

I play a mage and use ev’s a lot.  If I am going to kill something with one, for example a minitor general, I stand about 15 squares away an cast the summons as far away from me as possible.  The summons usually has no trouble finding the target.  Give that a try.  With paras I would reccomend backing up some after casting your summons.  It works with ev’s in Destard but they don’t do much damage.

popps said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Seth said:

Arnold7 said:

Also agree about the RC.  You can’t control like you do a pet.  It just kills everything in the area starting with the bad guys first and it is not nearly as powerful as some of the pets.  Four slots would be more realistic considering it is more powerful than an RC.

Me think RC should be 3 slots. So a mystic mage who has another 240 skills in mystism and focus, can cast 1 RC and 1 EV. RC is slow but EV moves faster.

The pure mage can cast 2 x EV and yet mystic mage can only do 1 slow RC.

If we choose to take up 240 skills with Mysticism, we should be able to do 1 EV and 1 RC.

The EV is also a hell of a lot weaker than the RC.

Here's a comparison of the lore window between a maxed out EV, and a maxed out RC.

The RC has higher Base Damage (hits harder), 580 more STR (hits harder), has 20 more Tactics (hits harder), has 120 more Anatomy (hits harder), has AI (so his attacks can actually bypass Resists to deal the full damage of his 780 STR/120 Tact/120 Anat hits), and he has Mysticism spells on top of that, with full 120 Mysticism/Focus. He also has over 3x the HP of an EV. The RC is the King of the Summons for good reason. A single RC can out damage and out tank 2 EVs.

Yoshi said:

“ @ popps this is a long shot but I think you use EC, there is a setting in the options that makes your character always run, please ensure this is not enabled so you can walk and not run”

Yep. I can't believe that so many people STILL haven't figured this out yet 18 years after Paragons were first introduced. Fast movement (running) catches their attention and causes them to re-target. They're like the T-Rex from Jurassic Park.

That's like me standing perfectly still as my pet tanks the Paragon, then some doofus comes running up/past, i'm like "hold still, he aggros on movement", then the person screams "LEROY JENKINS!" while running full speed, and gets pwned in 2 seconds by the Paragon. Sucks even more when the person gets away and i'm now having to chase the damn Paragon with my pet and an invis ready for when it switches to me.

@ PlayerSkillFTW 

You talk about a comparison between a "maxed out " EV and a "maxed out " RC.

What do you mean by "maxed out" ?

They do not spawn with always the same stats ?

It is random what stats they get or does it depend on something to spawn with "maxed out" stats ?

Thanks.

EVs don't scale with the summoner's Magery/Eval skills (they do get +15 Stam Regen and are harder to dispel with Lvl 3 Mastery though). RCs however, do scale with the summoners Mysticism+Focus/Imbuing skills (and also get +15 SR and harder to dispel with Lvl 3 Mastery). At 120 Mysticism+120 Focus/Imbuing, RCs have 120 in all skills they possess.

@PlayerSkillFTW

I know RC is stronger but I feel it's also slower.

What I meant was 
1) Magery and Eval, 240 skills, 2 EV

2) Mysticism and Focus, 240 skills, 1 RC

3) Magery, Mysticism, Eval and Focus, 480 skills, either 2 EV or 1 RC.

For 480 skills spent, it should be able to do 1EV and 1RC. I don't think it's too much to ask since it's not proportionately better. 

Option 3 also allows you to cast RC while it tanks AND cast offensive spells against your target which you seemed to forget about.

Oprion 2 also has offensive spells, a couple of them being really powerful

Option 3 would include those same offensive spells from Option 2... hence the reason for 480 skill vs 240.

or ditch eval on such template and make a mystic mage bard 4x120.. that actually works a treat

Archangel said:

or ditch eval on such template and make a mystic mage bard 4x120.. that actually works a treat

Drop peace for meditation and the perfect buffing machine 

McDougle said:

Archangel said:

or ditch eval on such template and make a mystic mage bard 4x120.. that actually works a treat

Drop peace for meditation and the perfect buffing machine 

like

keven2002 said:

Option 3 also allows you to cast RC while it tanks AND cast offensive spells against your target which you seemed to forget about.

All options can do the same tank and offensive.

It's about spending twice the skill points but not getting proportionately more options.

For 2 x 240 skills spent we don't get 128 spells, or 4 x EV.

So by right 1 x EV and 1 x RC would not be too much to ask. 

Seth said:

keven2002 said:

Option 3 also allows you to cast RC while it tanks AND cast offensive spells against your target which you seemed to forget about.

All options can do the same tank and offensive.

It's about spending twice the skill points but not getting proportionately more options.

For 2 x 240 skills spent we don't get 128 spells, or 4 x EV.

So by right 1 x EV and 1 x RC would not be too much to ask. 

I disagree. 1 RC is more powerful than 2 EVs as outlined by another poster. You also don't need 120 eval to cast EV.