@Mesanna - Why the Hate for Glacial Color

Goodwill 2022-04-13 14:49 #0

@Mesanna
Would you mind and share with us, why the personal hate for the glacial color, that been around for like 20 years?
People love the Glacial Hair, Spellbook, weapons, We loved the old bandanas, pants and so on.
a lot of the EM's make events and use the glacial color, IT is a color (hue) that a lot of people like and as far as everyone knows, only 1 person of the UO Team dont like the color for Personal reasons.

Yesterday on LS you said on Gen Chat that you will delete that HUE from the game all together?
Why?, Why not make that color wide available? sell 1 dye at the store? I am sure a lot of people will buy, why delete a hue from the game because a personal reason?

King 2022-04-13 15:04 #1

Glacial Hue been around for decades and players like the color. Look around and you will see many many people using Glacial hairs, glacial spellbook. I also dont understand why @Mesanna dont like the hue. (this is not an attack on the devs) .

Was suggested before on M&G on why not add that color to the ingame store and she said never, because she dont like the color. But my question was, if this will bring a lot of revenue to the game and it really doesnt hurt anyone, why not?
If what was said yesterday on gen chat by her, if she want to delete the color all together from the game as mentioned, does it mean the glacial snow, glacial hair, glacial book, will all be gone?

Anon 2022-04-13 15:28 #2

there is by far more important things that they can do with their limited time than delete a hue that been in the game for ages and really no one cares

Nails_Warstein 2022-04-13 17:02 #3

A personal opinion should not dictate business decisions. Let the free market decide. The customer is always right. These are tenets of any successful enterprise. An expensive one time use glacial dye would be a windfall for Ultima Online. Imagine what they could do with all those profits?

Jepeth 2022-04-13 17:11 #4

Now really, everyone. Is our memory about this particular hue that short?

Lord_Frodo 2022-04-13 17:18 #5

Just because she may not like it does not mean it is being deleted and BS/DAoC/UO receives no revenue from anything sold in the in game store. EA is the only company that sells anything for real money. EA pays BS to maintain/upgrade/create by a contract that BS signed with EA and knowing EA it is a set amount paid each year.

Anon 2022-04-13 17:24 #6

Lord_Frodo said:

Just because she may not like it does not mean it is being deleted and BS/DAoC/UO receives no revenue from anything sold in the in game store. EA is the only company that sells anything for real money. EA pays BS to maintain/upgrade/create by a contract that BS signed with EA and knowing EA it is a set amount paid each year.

You are wrong, BS, does make money from the things sold in the ingame store.

@Jepeth - Now really, everyone. Is our memory about this particular hue that short?
doesnt matter the previous problems or whatever, if you want to prevent shady things related to this Hue, just make the hue legal and sell them in the ingame store. so now because someone dont like the Hue, you will delete all items with same color? Hair Dye, Spellbook and so on?
why all EM's use that color? you can go to few shards and you will see on the EM haul or bank, lanterns or weapon or belt(underwear) with glacial color.
I mean recently she didnt even know about the Pet refresher on Test Center that been used for years and years and years to make Horses Glacial. I mean how's that a problem for the game?

Merlin 2022-04-13 17:26 #7

Voted YES.

There is a clearly a demand for certain hues. It's indicative of today's gaming world that some people like to show off their 'Avatars' and deck them out in fancy colored clothing. As an example, check out the bank sitters at Luna on ATL on a Friday or Saturday night.

More than just the Glacial color, there are other unique hues Ultima can promote that would likely raise revenue from the UO in-game Store. Make some of them available for a limited time only and you will definitely garner some interest.

Anon 2022-04-13 17:29 #8

you can google yourself and you will see 1000's of pictures about UO paperdol and clothing, players will pay for those special colors or style.

The current Tabard that we have in the game came from Free Shard idea!!

Cinderella 2022-04-13 18:32 #9

I do love the glacial color on certain things.(potted plants)
but adding it to the store would be too much.
People would be dying all their clothes with it.

For people with light sensitive eyes, colors like that hurt our eyes.

A perfect example of other colors that currently hurt (light sensitive players):
Minocian Fire pigment from the store.
I occassionally see someone with a whole outfit with that color.
I immediately have to log out.
For about 5 mins that color is the only thing I can see
and it is usually followed by a migraine.

the pulsing area effect from summoned reapers
Zipy's area effects
(I wish there was a setting to turn off this animation)

============

the big issue, is that by adding the dye to the store.
people will dye their whole outfits, which is a lot brighter effect.
if just one character with Minocian Fire gives me a migraine,
just imagine what a whole line of people bank sitting at Luna can do.

(I am not against the COLOR, it just needs to be limited.
but I can say that if they added the hair dye to the store, that would increase revenue.)

Nails_Warstein 2022-04-13 18:44 #10

Cinderella said:

I do love the glacial color on certain things.(potted plants)
but adding it to the store would be too much.
People would be dying all their clothes with it.

For people with light sensitive eyes, colors like that hurt our eyes.

A perfect example of other colors that currently hurt (light sensitive players):
Minocian Fire pigment from the store.
I occassionally see someone with a whole outfit with that color.
I immediately have to log out.
For about 5 mins that color is the only thing I can see
and it is usually followed by a migraine.

the pulsing area effect from summoned reapers
Zipy's area effects
(I wish there was a setting to turn off this animation)

============

the big issue, is that by adding the dye to the store.
people will dye their whole outfits, which is a lot brighter effect.
if just one character with Minocian Fire gives me a migraine,
just imagine what a whole line of people bank sitting at Luna can do.

(I am not against the COLOR, it just needs to be limited.
but I can say that if they added the hair dye to the store, that would increase revenue.)

I think you make an argument for Glacial when you rightly point out the other absurd colors in the game like Minocian Fire and for me that ugly pink color that shall be named. Many people can't stand certain colors. Fashion faux pas like no white after labor day is a classic example. Personally if I had it my way, I wouldn't have any of these psychedelic colors in medieval period fantasy setting. Unfortunately the ship has long since sailed, and perhaps New Legacy won't include them and keep it pure. Don't punish the players who collect this color. If I don't speak out for Glacial, next you'll be coming for my Europa gold color.

Lord_Frodo 2022-04-13 18:55 #11

Anon said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Just because she may not like it does not mean it is being deleted and BS/DAoC/UO receives no revenue from anything sold in the in game store. EA is the only company that sells anything for real money. EA pays BS to maintain/upgrade/create by a contract that BS signed with EA and knowing EA it is a set amount paid each year.

You are wrong, BS, does make money from the things sold in the ingame store.

@ Jepeth - Now really, everyone. Is our memory about this particular hue that short?
doesnt matter the previous problems or whatever, if you want to prevent shady things related to this Hue, just make the hue legal and sell them in the ingame store. so now because someone dont like the Hue, you will delete all items with same color? Hair Dye, Spellbook and so on?
why all EM's use that color? you can go to few shards and you will see on the EM haul or bank, lanterns or weapon or belt(underwear) with glacial color.
I mean recently she didnt even know about the Pet refresher on Test Center that been used for years and years and years to make Horses Glacial. I mean how's that a problem for the game?

I did not know that BS owns Origin.com where you buy Sovereigns from. When did they take control of it? All cash is paid to EA.com not BS. Do you have a copy of the contract that BS signed with EA and did EA agree to give BS a percentage of the cash for the Sovereigns, knowing tight wad EA that would be a no. Didi you think your subs and all the money you paid for expansions went to BS also.

Whitewolf 2022-04-13 19:36 #12

Nails_Warstein said:

A personal opinion should not dictate business decisions. Let the free market decide. The customer is always right. These are tenets of any successful enterprise. An expensive one time use glacial dye would be a windfall for Ultima Online. Imagine what they could do with all those profits?

well its apparent you have never worked for wal-mart, the customer is NOT always right, alot of times they are frigging idiots. and as far as the rest well Mesanna has made it clear many times, this is her game, its not your game, even though you pay her salary.

Skett 2022-04-13 19:43 #13

Ahh don’t we have dinosaur’s
I guess why not glacier blue ?

Really wish we could get hot air balloons made by crazy Herbert

Marge 2022-04-13 20:20 #14

If a color would to be removed, I vote for that God awful straight from Hell monstrosity that is Minocian Fire.

Victim_Of_Siege 2022-04-13 20:38 #15

Marge said:

If a color would to be removed, I vote for that God awful straight from Hell monstrosity that is Minocian Fire.

htgfjgfjgfjgfhjgfhj 2022-04-13 21:52 #16

username said:

Goodwill said:

@ Mesanna
Would you mind and share with us, why the personal hate for the glacial color, that been around for like 20 years?

She, and I hate to resort to insults, is an idiot. The whole pet air refresher debacle made her look really bad and now, instead of... oh I don't know just removing the pet air refresher on TC and moving on, she's doubling down on her incompetence. Another horrible decision made by our horrible leader. Regardless of your thoughts on the glacial hue, everyone should recognize that instead of doing meaningful updates/additions to the game, this is the kind of thing that keeps Mesanna up at night. I have made hundreds of bug reports over the years and a total of ONE of them has been fixed. Best part is that these things are extremely simple things, like minor graphic issues, that probably take 2 minutes to fix. For example: tribal masks have a glitchy animation frame in the CC while mounted. By the way, this glitch has been in the game since 1997...... still not fixed:

For me that's what puts this in perspective: I know this is an easy fix and the time dedicated to removing glacial hue from the game will be 10x what could be used instead for things like this. Don't get me started on vendor search...

Meanwhile, in the last BOD update, the hues that were released are actually eye cancer, and you can dye your entire set of gear these colors:

What's worse, a glacial spellbook or an entire suit of that ugly pink? Are my legitimate items really a big problem?

Instead of removing glacial from the game, or in any capacity from specific items, Mesanna should just remove herself from Broadsword.

WOW
WOW
WOW
Well said!!! 100%

@Mesanna , you recently took the time to answer about the Red's in Trammel, We really want to know why you hate Glacial so bad? The hue is part of the game since ages ago, there is by far, far worst colors (dyes) in the game and no one ever said anything, why Glacial is a problem (for you).

McDougle 2022-04-13 22:08 #17

If I've learned one thing taunting her never ends well...

htgfjgfjgfjgfhjgfhj 2022-04-13 22:34 #18

McDougle said:

If I've learned one thing taunting her never ends well...

is not really about that, it is just a simple question on why, why she hate that color, she said many times , is personal... but that hue is part of the game for ages, why remove? , why not add to the ingame store and make some $

keven2002 2022-04-13 22:41 #19

Not to pile on but I do think it's funny there is talk about removing a color (glacier) from the game because a certain someone "hates it" when you take into consideration the more recent things like the not knowing about the Pet Air Freshener and not knowing reapers haven't casted spells in like 10 years... kinda makes you wonder if these people still play the game regularly to even be bothered by the color (in game).... or is it just more principle?

Any who we all know what is going to happen here so IBTL

username 2022-04-13 23:18 #20

McDougle said:

If I've learned one thing taunting her never ends well...

If I've learned one thing about Mesanna is that nothing ever ends well. Especially recently, she's been on a ripper. Back in the day, circa '13, Mesanna was very nice, polite and understanding. Now it seems that, as other's have stated, it's her game and her way else gtfo. If this goes through, it's safe to say she doesn't care about any community, or this game, and especially any player input. She's drawn that line in the sand and made it abundantly clear and asserted it's her agenda.

keven2002 said:

Any who we all know what is going to happen here so IBTL

I really hope not. I do think it's finally time players take a stand against this tyranny and at least let as many people voice their disapproval on the matter. As the changes are not implemented yet she has time to do the right thing.

Arnold7 2022-04-14 02:01 #21

Don’t really understand what this is all about. Is this a color only used by GMs and other players are using it to impersonate them? Is it owned by another game? Don’t even know what this color looks like. Just can’t see what removing this hue accomplishes. Considering all the posts on this proposed change maybe on offical explanation is warranted.

Skett 2022-04-14 03:09 #22

I say give everyone a glacier dye tub that can dye everything absolutely everything glacier blue and for about a month maybe two that’s all you’ll see THEN add a new color to the store and no more glacier……

gay 2022-04-14 03:42 #23

iirc her argument against glacial was that "It was never intended to be used by players at all." But then you have things like the original glacial staff from the launch of T2A, the Arctic Death Dealer later on, and the Crystalline Ring, and then the sheer amount of EM garbage that was pumped out into the population just to be duped one way or another.

When you compare it to the newer hues added for players to use, it's actually just a joke and the bias against it is clear as day. That orange one, I don't know the name of but I refer to as "the color that nacho cheese doritos and mountain dew would make in the form of vomit." being probably the most egregious color ever released.

Personally I'm not a fan of glacial outside of a hair color, but I don't see why it cant be used for transmog purposes.

On a side note, and in an effort to not get moderated: When someone with a two word name that might start with P, and someone else with one word name that might start with C illegally created all that glacial cloth for someone else with a two word name that might start with an A to very honestly sell for 2.5-5b per piece of cloth under the guise of it being "super limited" because "it was found in an old IDOC and totally wasn't made with a rogue EM created dye tub from when someone had access to EM characters". That probably didn't help the case for glacial items at all.

Pawain 2022-04-14 03:59 #24

username said:

Meanwhile, in the last BOD update, the hues that were released are actually eye cancer, and you can dye your entire set of gear these colors:

What's worse, a glacial spellbook or an entire suit of that ugly pink? Are my legitimate items really a big problem?

I have the BOD colors covered. I need to find some of this Minocian Fire I keep hearing about.

Pawain 2022-04-14 04:58 #25

Its not as hideous as I had hoped. It is hard on the eyes.

But I went from boring green to a pop.
Looks good on the mosaic also.

JackFlashUk 2022-04-14 07:30 #26

Pawain said:

username said:

Meanwhile, in the last BOD update, the hues that were released are actually eye cancer, and you can dye your entire set of gear these colors:

What's worse, a glacial spellbook or an entire suit of that ugly pink? Are my legitimate items really a big problem?

I have the BOD colors covered. I need to find some of this Minocian Fire I keep hearing about.

minocian fire is a hooch pigment in the store

Larisa 2022-04-14 12:55 #27

hooch pigment? Does that mean we can smoke it?? YASSS!

Anyway...I think it might be because SO much controversy has happened over that one particular hue and she just doesn't wanna hear it anymore,...I don't blame her. Like many of you have proven in this post, there are many other equally eye bleeding colors you can use in this game.,..why do you NEED glacial?

Just be like Elsa...Let It Go 🙂

keven2002 2022-04-14 14:31 #28

Larisa said:

Just be like Elsa...Let It Go 🙂

Elsa also lived in a place that was like exclusively "glacier" so she had as much of the color as her heart would have desired. Easy for her to say that 😂

Seth 2022-04-14 14:35 #29

vote +1 to glacier, customers are always right.

Why are they always "fixing" things that we like and not fixing things that matters.

Anon 2022-04-14 14:56 #30

@Mariah would you please show this to @Kyronix that probably will show to @Mesanna that people's opinion matter? thatit is not fair to delete a Hue from the game that been around for so long, because of a personal hate for it? like many others said, if the complain was about that this color hurt people's eye, well, there is by far worst colors(bright) in the game that cause the same effect.

How is this any different?

than this

Mariah 2022-04-14 15:03 #31

IF Kyronix wants to read about this, he will. He reads a lot more than he posts.

If I were asked to guess the reason for that particular color being unpopular I would have said it was less because of how bright it was and more because of the exploiting that went on to create items with that hue. But of course that's only my opinion and guess.

Anon 2022-04-14 15:16 #32

Mariah said:

IF Kyronix wants to read about this, he will. He reads a lot more than he posts.

If I were asked to guess the reason for that particular color being unpopular I would have said it was less because of how bright it was and more because of the exploiting that went on to create items with that hue. But of course that's only my opinion and guess.

How many other things were exploited on UO in the past and not perma deleted? I could list a lot of them.

I dont need to list all the Glacial Items that current existent in the game, from hair dyes to weapons and so on. We are just asking to this situation been look in a different way other than personal hate from 1 of the devs, specially if we are asking to pay for it, make a limited time special color dye (1 charge) and put in the ingame store and charge us 1K, 2K soverign and you will see how many people will buy.

Pawain 2022-04-14 17:27 #33

Mine is way cooler. That is why.

keven2002 2022-04-14 17:58 #34

Hey does anyone know (or remember) the hue we had long time ago that was kind of like black tie dye? It was moistly black but had all different colors in it. It almost looked like a broken pure black dye job. iirc it was maybe a dye tub on the Halloween test shard like 20 years ago? Maybe we should bring that color back!

Marge 2022-04-14 19:00 #35

I think that would be what was called Star Cloth. I seem to remember people talking about it . I never actually saw it in game and couldn't find a pic online.

Whitewolf 2022-04-14 20:56 #36

funny no one has brought up the fact black was never intended, it was created threw a bug using coal and a dye tub back in the day.

Skett 2022-04-15 02:15 #37

what about ethereal cloth

Skett 2022-04-15 02:17 #38

Anon said:

@ Mariah would you please show this to @ Kyronix that probably will show to @ Mesanna that people's opinion matter? thatit is not fair to delete a Hue from the game that been around for so long, because of a personal hate for it? like many others said, if the complain was about that this color hurt people's eye, well, there is by far worst colors(bright) in the game that cause the same effect.

How is this any different?

than this

after seeing these id take glacier over that other obnoxious color 🙂

Pawain 2022-04-15 05:45 #39

Someone mentioned the Black cloth and tub was an exploit. So they could not delete it because the items were already made and the original tubs said Dye Tub just like the others.

We found a way to make the multi hue trick or treat cloth by cutting the clothes while we were under the affect.

We were able to make white cloth by putting a quest item in the loom.

We were able to make slime dyed cloth.

What do all those have in common. They were made using game mechanics on items that we may have not supposed to have done. In the first 3 cases they made dye tubs that make those colors so everyone can have them. For the Halloween colors they made all types of dye tubs.

There are old colors from NPCs or mobs that do not exist now.

All of these colors are in the game and not threatened.

I do not know the history of Glacial items. I am not talking about the EM drops. Hair Dye that is in the game and became a status symbol.

The clothing, books, pick axes etc.
How were those made? Were they from game mechanics that any player could do like all the ones above?

Maybe that is a reason she does not like those things in the game, I do not know and can't give an educated opinion on the subject until I know the circumstances of the first Glacial item. Then the rest of the history of the color on those items.

Seth 2022-04-15 07:06 #40

Mariah said:

IF Kyronix wants to read about this, he will. He reads a lot more than he posts.

I think he posts an average of 1-2 per month, so reading "a lot" more of 1-2 is not a lot.

Drago 2022-04-15 08:56 #41

Leave glacial alone.... how about we leave some merit in the game and not have to monetize everything on the store? Let some items remain rare and highly sought after.

next hue asked will be wildfire....

htgfjgfjgfjgfhjgfhj 2022-04-16 13:04 #42

Drago said:

Leave glacial alone.... how about we leave some merit in the game and not have to monetize everything on the store? Let some items remain rare and highly sought after.

next hue asked will be wildfire....

100000%

Cinderella 2022-04-16 13:36 #43

Drago said:

Leave glacial alone.... how about we leave some merit in the game and not have to monetize everything on the store? Let some items remain rare and highly sought after.

next hue asked will be wildfire....

we have already asked for Wildfire and Daemonic Forces (red/yellow)
(to be put on the Treasures of vendors)

gay 2022-04-16 23:15 #44

Pawain said:

The clothing, books, pick axes etc.
How were those made? Were they from game mechanics that any player could do like all the ones above?

Black Staff, Pickaxe, Butcher's knife, Dagger, War Mace, Spellbook, Ring, were all doggy duped items. Long pants, bandana, probably the same thing considering their frequency of existence pre-rogue EM glacial tub era however these two items now fall under the category of illegal since then. 99% of Slime/HoM white/1109/quest orange cloth in circulation was duped via the old bolt cloth stacking exploit. Both categories of items allowed to circulate that were unquestioningly created with dupes.

The main difference is that that one side is player influenced duping and the glacial clothing (minus long pants/bandana) was a direct result of someone abusing the power of an Event Moderator character, which Mesanna takes very personally.

Pawain 2022-04-17 01:25 #45

OK. If that is the case can see why they should not be more of those. If she wants to get rid of dupes I am fine with that.

It's her choice the allow EMs to use that color.

gay 2022-04-17 05:52 #46

Pawain said:

OK. If that is the case can see why they should not be more of those. If she wants to get rid of dupes I am fine with that.

It's her choice the allow EMs to use that color.

EMs dont have final say on drop colors, mesanna does and the EMs just request what a drop should be and it's color. She allowed them to have glacial drops originally and it started out with the exception of those drops intending to be unique or low count, 2-4. Now she allows them if they follow a good story and match theme wise, but it's still rare.

EMs have very little power to do anything on their own at all anymore. Last I checked (sometime before the dynamic system was implemented) Mesanna was still the person who had to decorate areas for EM's events, because time and time again it's been proven to be a terrible idea giving players the ability to create or even alter items. We cannot and should not be trusted.

@Mesanna - Why the Hate for Glacial Color

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