Spellweaving's Gift of Life should really work like the Sacrifice Virtue....

What is the difference ?

With the Sacrifice Virtue, one's own character's Ghost can walk to a place they want, and THEN select the Virtue to self-resurrect....

With Gift of Life, instead, the Ghost remains "stuck", pretty much where the character died incapable of moving elsewhere....

Now, if one's own character died somewhere, chances are, that this happened because the spawn there was overwhelming.... how much sense does it thus make, to provide to players a self-resurrecting mechanics like Gift of Life which was to force one's own Ghost to only be able to get resurrected where that spawn which cause the death of that character still is ?

Obviously, the Ghost, resurrecting in the middle of the very spawn which caused the death o that character the very 1st time, would end up rez-killed again.... and loose the Gift of Life charge all for nothing....

Of course that, to my opinion, any self-resurrecting mechanics, thus Spellweaving's Gift of Life included, should permit to a character's Ghost to walk where wanted, and THEN be able to use that Gift of Life ability and self-resurrect.... in a safe spot, not in the middle of that spawn which caused that character's death in the very first place....

As I said, like it is possible to do using the Sacrifice Virtue to self-resurrect....

A long winded argument, but for once, one I can agree with - except I would also include gem of  salvation, which also forces you to use it while still in the place you died, virtually guaranteeing you will be killed as soon as you dare to rez. 
I would, however, put some kind of limit on how far you can go from your body before using the spell/item.

Why do you need another Sacrifice functioning ability? You answered your own question here. Players can self resurrect with the sacrifice virtue so go build it up and use as needed. At knight, you can resurrect at least a half a dozen times. 

Too many people want to make the game solo style based on how they play the game; forgetting that it's meant to be group play. 

keven2002 said:

Why do you need another Sacrifice functioning ability? You answered your own question here. Players can self resurrect with the sacrifice virtue so go build it up and use as needed. At knight, you can resurrect at least a half a dozen times. 

Too many people want to make the game solo style based on how they play the game; forgetting that it's meant to be group play. 

Why ?

It is simple, because as it is, Gift of Life and the Gem of Salvation ponted out by Petra Fyde, are pretty much useless....

Self-Resurrecting in the exact one spot where one's own character died, with all of the Spawn that caused that death still around, makes ZERO sense to me, none, nada...

It is necessary to provide to Ghosts the ability to move to a safer spot, and only THEN utilize that charge from the Gift of Life or the Gem of Salvation... otherwise, the Spawn still around would just Rez-kill that character and that ability would basically show its uselessness to work as it works now....

popps said:

What is the difference ?

With the Sacrifice Virtue, one's own character's Ghost can walk to a place they want, and THEN select the Virtue to self-resurrect....

With Gift of Life, instead, the Ghost remains "stuck", pretty much where the character died incapable of moving elsewhere....

Now, if one's own character died somewhere, chances are, that this happened because the spawn there was overwhelming.... how much sense does it thus make, to provide to players a self-resurrecting mechanics like Gift of Life which was to force one's own Ghost to only be able to get resurrected where that spawn which cause the death of that character still is ?

Obviously, the Ghost, resurrecting in the middle of the very spawn which caused the death o that character the very 1st time, would end up rez-killed again.... and loose the Gift of Life charge all for nothing....

Of course that, to my opinion, any self-resurrecting mechanics, thus Spellweaving's Gift of Life included, should permit to a character's Ghost to walk where wanted, and THEN be able to use that Gift of Life ability and self-resurrect.... in a safe spot, not in the middle of that spawn which caused that character's death in the very first place....

As I said, like it is possible to do using the Sacrifice Virtue to self-resurrect....

I fully agree with you on this one! The horror of rezzing amidst a mob of foes is daunting. "can I rezz, gear up and run till I have enough mana to invis?... get another death-robe for free?"

popps said:

What is the difference ?

With the Sacrifice Virtue, one's own character's Ghost can walk to a place they want, and THEN select the Virtue to self-resurrect....

With Gift of Life, instead, the Ghost remains "stuck", pretty much where the character died incapable of moving elsewhere....

Now, if one's own character died somewhere, chances are, that this happened because the spawn there was overwhelming.... how much sense does it thus make, to provide to players a self-resurrecting mechanics like Gift of Life which was to force one's own Ghost to only be able to get resurrected where that spawn which cause the death of that character still is ?

Obviously, the Ghost, resurrecting in the middle of the very spawn which caused the death o that character the very 1st time, would end up rez-killed again.... and loose the Gift of Life charge all for nothing....

Of course that, to my opinion, any self-resurrecting mechanics, thus Spellweaving's Gift of Life included, should permit to a character's Ghost to walk where wanted, and THEN be able to use that Gift of Life ability and self-resurrect.... in a safe spot, not in the middle of that spawn which caused that character's death in the very first place....

As I said, like it is possible to do using the Sacrifice Virtue to self-resurrect....

This is the historical moment we have been waiting for!
Finally, I agree 100% on this one! @popps

There should be a popup button that we can press to resurrect AFTER we moved to a SAFE place.
If killed at a spot, that spot has to be dangerous, why force a resurrect immediately.... say in a room filled with 10 paragons because they were already there when we recalled in.

Gift of life rez at almost half health move a few steps away and have your dress and invis macro ready soon we're going to be playing wow

McDougle said:

Gift of life rez at almost half health move a few steps away and have your dress and invis macro ready soon we're going to be playing wow

Yea that's my opinion too... seems like a handful of people are on every thread wanting to take the risk out of dying between can't be looted, can't be stolen from, now wanting to change how gift of life works.

Next step is just to removing dying from the game all together; if you "die" you can just not move or attack for 30 seconds but then can get right back in it. *eye roll* 

Double click your body while dead. As soon as you res hit your last object macro.

Or invest in an undertakers staff and none of this matters.

I'm sure this is a rerun thread.

Clearly if he had nightsight on his fishing pole this wouldn't be a problem 

 😂 

keven2002 said:

McDougle said:

Gift of life rez at almost half health move a few steps away and have your dress and invis macro ready soon we're going to be playing wow

Yea that's my opinion too... seems like a handful of people are on every thread wanting to take the risk out of dying between can't be looted, can't be stolen from, now wanting to change how gift of life works.

Next step is just to removing dying from the game all together; if you "die" you can just not move or attack for 30 seconds but then can get right back in it. *eye roll* 

Take the risk out of dying, no loot, cannot be stolen? 

Whatever is insured is still on the ghost. Whatever is cursed lies with the corpse and lootable by monsters or others in Fel.

Not asking for rez on the spot with immunity to damage which could be too much to ask.

In principle, OP just asking for space and time to be decided by player like Sacrifice. It's not a completely new function.

The thing is, the spell and the item are both already in game, but with the way they currently function, they may as well not be. What's the point of having them if you can't use them?  I've tried waiting for the surrounding mob to disperse a bit before using them, but there is only a limited time during which they are available to you.
All my fighting characters also have Sacrifice virtue, but in the 'treasures of' events, they die often enough for them to run out of it, even though they start the event at 'knight'.

I have to agree with this suggestion it would make much more sense if we could at least to a limited extent move after we die before using gift of life. I do find use for it when in a group but otherwise it's pretty much a promise of death. 

Petra_Fyde said:

What's the point of having them if you can't use them?  

All my fighting characters also have Sacrifice virtue, but in the 'treasures of' events, they die often enough for them to run out of it, even though they start the event at 'knight'.

You can use the spell though (and gem). I've used them on many occasions without any issue (don't mistake that for 100% success but that's part of the risk). This doesn't mean you can just go Leroy Jenkins into a mob; you have to have a strategy (which likely should be stay on the fringe if you can't handle the spawn).

If you are talking specifically about the treasures of mobs then you are correct, I also ran low on sacrifice. I also built it back up during the event when I become low to ensure I had it when needed. That being said, every single event like this has a healer outside so the furthest you are running is to the front of the dungeon for a rez at the stationary healer (or get rezzed by a player before that). If you listen to other players, you would mark runes in various "safe" spots of the dungeon beforehand to recall close to your body and claim your corpse. Let's be honest, the people asking for this don't play Fel so that isn't an issue... and if you do play Fel that is part of the risk.

I do not say this as an insult but more as an observation; this just seems like another request by people who do not want to learn to play the game (strategy wise) and be inconvenienced when they die.

k, I may not be the most competent player, but I'm not a novice either. Obviously I don't charge into a mob, and when I can see I'm not going to be able to heal fast enough I try to get clear. But sometimes when several things hit you at once you're left thinking 'Shhugar, what the hell happened there?' and the gem kicks in and asks if you want to rez - 'erm, not really, thanks'. 

I'm not asking to be invincible, I'm not asking not to die, and I do take myself off to the nearest healer when needed. I'm no stranger to running all the way from Shame level 5 and out to find a wandering healer. I just think the item and spell could function a little better than they currently do.

(incidentally, I'm also not a stranger to being followed to said wandering healer by a particularly hostile PK and finding myself rez-killed when in Fel.  I play ALL facets)

Petra_Fyde said:

k, I may not be the most competent player, but I'm not a novice either. Obviously I don't charge into a mob, and when I can see I'm not going to be able to heal fast enough I try to get clear. But sometimes when several things hit you at once you're left thinking 'Shhugar, what the hell happened there?' and the gem kicks in and asks if you want to rez - 'erm, not really, thanks'. 

I'm not asking to be invincible, I'm not asking not to die, and I do take myself off to the nearest healer when needed. I'm no stranger to running all the way from Shame level 5 and out to find a wandering healer. I just think the item and spell could function a little better than they currently do.

(incidentally, I'm also not a stranger to being followed to said wandering healer by a particularly hostile PK and finding myself rez-killed when in Fel.  I play ALL facets)

I built the SW only in recent years and soon found out the flaws as described above. 

Maybe it should be tagged to the arcane level, say
Level 0,  same as current.

Level 3,  window pop-up but we can still run and the window stays. We can click gem anytime to rez but after 2mins if we don't rez the window disappears.

Level 6, as above but up to 5 mins.

Petra_Fyde said:

k, I may not be the most competent player, but I'm not a novice either. Obviously I don't charge into a mob, and when I can see I'm not going to be able to heal fast enough I try to get clear. But sometimes when several things hit you at once you're left thinking 'Shhugar, what the hell happened there?' and the gem kicks in and asks if you want to rez - 'erm, not really, thanks'. 

I'm not asking to be invincible, I'm not asking not to die, and I do take myself off to the nearest healer when needed. I'm no stranger to running all the way from Shame level 5 and out to find a wandering healer. I just think the item and spell could function a little better than they currently do.

(incidentally, I'm also not a stranger to being followed to said wandering healer by a particularly hostile PK and finding myself rez-killed when in Fel.  I play ALL facets)

To further add to how inconvenient it can be to use Gift of Life or the Gem of Salvation which do not permit, like the Sacrifice Virtue does, to move with the Ghost to a safer spot to self-res, there is places where one can die where healers are nowhere near close, and not just at the lowest level of a Dungeon, but also, for example, in Ilshenar and other places where "wasting" a Gift of Life or Gem of Salvation charge because only being able to self-res where the spawn that killed one's own character in the first place still is, and that very likely ends one rez-killed by that spawn, then one has to walk a very large distance to a healer or other place to get ressed, and then walk all the way back to where one died...

Gift of Life and Gem of Salvation should, to my opinion, work in a way that "helps" a player, not in a way that are useless most of the times, especially if playing alone, not in a group....

One of the rare occasions where I agree with popps…. 

Then yall would complain that you can't get to your body because it is crowded still.  

Add a mob repellent mist that sprays when you use those methods.

popps said:

Gift of Life and Gem of Salvation should, to my opinion, work in a way that "helps" a player, not in a way that are useless most of the times, especially if playing alone, not in a group....

As I mentioned above (I'm sure you ignored it because it was inconvenient to you) if you are playing alone then you factor that in to your strategy (ie don't stand around casting in the middle of the dungeon). Play styles must change/evolve when depending on the scenario... I understand you specifically have a hard time accepting this but that is how UO works.

Apply what Kyronix has said before by "simply" adding recipe scrolls to make things; essentially it's more involved than you think. If it's a chore to create a recipe scroll (and ensuing changes to game mechanics of the screens etc), don't you think it's just as much of a chore to change the coding/logic on how gift of life works... especially when there is already the sacrifice virtue in place to give you exactly what you are asking for? 

Should we add that when someone cast rez on us and there is spawn around that we should also be able to pick where we get to rez?

I use Gift of Life on my pets and it lets the pet move to a safer location before I let it resurrect. It would be nice if it worked that way on myself. I've been instantly rez killed with no time to even click a mouse button.

Since this is a spell after all and not a virtue, perhaps it should differ from Sacrifice by having a longer timer, just not not zero or a few seconds. 

When I remember to cast the spell it's a nice bonus if it can be used when I die, if it's in a bad spot I move away and use sacrifice virtue instead or run to a healer if it's one nearby. If you get free resurecctions wherever you like, just from using a spell, it becomes to powerfull in my opinion.

keven2002 said:

popps said:

Gift of Life and Gem of Salvation should, to my opinion, work in a way that "helps" a player, not in a way that are useless most of the times, especially if playing alone, not in a group....

Apply what Kyronix has said before by "simply" adding recipe scrolls to make things; essentially it's more involved than you think. If it's a chore to create a recipe scroll (and ensuing changes to game mechanics of the screens etc), don't you think it's just as much of a chore to change the coding/logic on how gift of life works... especially when there is already the sacrifice virtue in place to give you exactly what you are asking for? 

Should we add that when someone cast rez on us and there is spawn around that we should also be able to pick where we get to rez?

So we should never expect the devs to make any changes to anything ever because it might be a "chore"? Instead of the players trying to, how about we let the devs speak for the devs.

With an abundance of ways to heal, why only have one way to self-resurrect that works and two that only kind of works? It´s not gonna make the game any easier or less risky by tweaking the two to be more on par with Sacrifice. Because as you said yourself, players can just use Sacrifice anyway.
I do however agree with you that we shouldn´t make this game any easier or less risky. This just isn´t one of those scenarios since Sacrifice already exist ingame.

Allowing Gift of Life or Gem of Salvation to function the same way as Sacrifice would diminish the value of the Virtue and the work it takes to level and maintain it.  

Gift of Life has multiple ways it can be used successfully. Sometimes it's not as useful. That's the risk of dying.

Violet said:

Allowing Gift of Life or Gem of Salvation to function the same way as Sacrifice would diminish the value of the Virtue and the work it takes to level and maintain it.  

Gift of Life has multiple ways it can be used successfully. Sometimes it's not as useful. That's the risk of dying.

Should we not delete sacred journey and eliminate the ability to use recall scrolls with no skill because it diminishes the value of having magery to recall?  Sorry, your argument is a logical fail.

Pawain said:

Then yall would complain that you can't get to your body because it is crowded still.  

Add a mob repellent mist that sprays when you use those methods.

I don' need to get to my body EVER, all is insured or blessed and if it's fresh loot, I don't lose sleep over it. And even running from Shame to a healer and recalling back I always find my body, so you obviously don't get it, as usual.  I want to rez in order to either keep on fighting, or to be able to recall out of the bloody place, that simple. I certainly have no desire to rez just to be killed again. That is an exercise in futility, and futility per-se is best avoided. Even you could understand the concept if you apply to it!

Merus said:

Should we not delete sacred journey and eliminate the ability to use recall scrolls with no skill because it diminishes the value of having magery to recall?  Sorry, your argument is a logical fail.

Actually it isn't.

Magery and Chivalry are both magics, both skill systems.  Magics that are targeted towards different templates.

The Virtues are a different and independent system from the skill system.  One that any player (other than murderers)  can get and achieve regardless of template (even crafters could work up and use Sacrifice, it just may be really slow).  An independent ability that requires time gated upkeep and limits to how often/much the ability can be used.  The self rez wherever you want is the only thing the Sacrifice Virtue has.

Archangel said:

Pawain said:

Then yall would complain that you can't get to your body because it is crowded still.  

Add a mob repellent mist that sprays when you use those methods.

I don' need to get to my body EVER, all is insured or blessed and if it's fresh loot, I don't lose sleep over it. And even running from Shame to a healer and recalling back I always find my body, so you obviously don't get it, as usual.  I want to rez in order to either keep on fighting, or to be able to recall out of the bloody place, that simple. I certainly have no desire to rez just to be killed again. That is an exercise in futility, and futility per-se is best avoided. Even you could understand the concept if you apply to it!

You are confusing me with someone that wants the proposed change.

And if the OP got the change then .... insert my post here.

I use undertakers staff so I do not need to get my body.

Pawain said:

Then yall would complain that you can't get to your body because it is crowded still.  

Add a mob repellent mist that sprays when you use those methods.

A complaint that would not be possible to be expressed, to my opinion....

Why ?

Because someone who has Spellweaving to cast Gift of Life, they can also cast Ethereal Journey which would make it possible to them, once self-ressed at a safe location if Gift of Life was to permit the walking of the Ghost before the "charge" of the Gift of Life spell is used up, to go back to retrieve their Corpse stuff without that spawn interfering with it...

popps said:

Pawain said:

Then yall would complain that you can't get to your body because it is crowded still.  

Add a mob repellent mist that sprays when you use those methods.

A complaint that would not be possible to be expressed, to my opinion....

Why ?

Because someone who has Spellweaving to cast Gift of Life, they can also cast Ethereal Journey which would make it possible to them, once self-ressed at a safe location if Gift of Life was to permit the walking of the Ghost before the "charge" of the Gift of Life spell is used up, to go back to retrieve their Corpse stuff without that spawn interfering with it...

He was being sarcastic but your response simply showed why what you ask for is totally unnecessary..

McDougle said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

Then yall would complain that you can't get to your body because it is crowded still.  

Add a mob repellent mist that sprays when you use those methods.

A complaint that would not be possible to be expressed, to my opinion....

Why ?

Because someone who has Spellweaving to cast Gift of Life, they can also cast Ethereal Journey which would make it possible to them, once self-ressed at a safe location if Gift of Life was to permit the walking of the Ghost before the "charge" of the Gift of Life spell is used up, to go back to retrieve their Corpse stuff without that spawn interfering with it...

He was being sarcastic but your response simply showed why what you ask for is totally unnecessary..

On the contrary, it DOES is necessary..... because Ethereal Journey needs to be cast, before it works.... and when there is a bunch of spawn, already aggravated towards that character which got killed, if the Ghost self-resses "on the spot", with all of that Spawn which killed that character, still aggravated towards that character, there simply is NO time to self-res on the spot using the Gift of Life charge, get requipped for the 100% LRC to work AND finally cast Ethereal Journey to have all of the Spawn around there look the other place, at least for a short while (Ethereal Journey even at 120 Spellweaving and with a Circle 6 lasts way, but WAY too short but this, is an entire other story....).

Unfortunately, the Spawn there would Rez-kill that just self-resurrected Ghost using that Gift of Life charge "on the spot".... long before they can even "try" casting Ethereal Journey...

Gift of Life, and Gem of Salvation, need to permit to the Ghost to walk away to a safe location before using them....

So you have insurance and now your loot proof statue three ways to self rez etheral journey and undertakers staff and you still want more ? 

McDougle said:

So you have insurance and now your loot proof statue three ways to self rez etheral journey and undertakers staff and you still want more ? 

That is not the point...

The point is, that having a spell, Gift of Life, or an item, Gem of Salvation, which most of the times ends up with the character getting Res-killed by the same spawn that killed that character the 1st time, seems to me useless, pointless to make those things available to players in the first place...

What is the point to have an ability to self-res, when that self-ressing most of the time gets one killed right on the spot once again because the spawn that killed the character is still all there?

popps said:

McDougle said:

So you have insurance and now your loot proof statue three ways to self rez etheral journey and undertakers staff and you still want more ? 

That is not the point...

The point is, that having a spell, Gift of Life, or an item, Gem of Salvation, which most of the times ends up with the character getting Res-killed by the same spawn that killed that character the 1st time, seems to me useless, pointless to make those things available to players in the first place...

What is the point to have an ability to self-res, when that self-ressing most of the time gets one killed right on the spot once again because the spawn that killed the character is still all there?

You can decide to not rez there... 

popps said:

McDougle said:

So you have insurance and now your loot proof statue three ways to self rez etheral journey and undertakers staff and you still want more ? 

That is not the point...

The point is, that having a spell, Gift of Life, or an item, Gem of Salvation, which most of the times ends up with the character getting Res-killed by the same spawn that killed that character the 1st time, seems to me useless, pointless to make those things available to players in the first place...

What is the point to have an ability to self-res, when that self-ressing most of the time gets one killed right on the spot once again because the spawn that killed the character is still all there?

Tis is online game. Gift of Life is OK if you have party killing mobs Or a pet which will kill angry spawn. 
Otherwise you go to a shrine and res there. Easy. 

Pawain said:

Archangel said:

Pawain said:

Then yall would complain that you can't get to your body because it is crowded still.  

Add a mob repellent mist that sprays when you use those methods.

I don' need to get to my body EVER, all is insured or blessed and if it's fresh loot, I don't lose sleep over it. And even running from Shame to a healer and recalling back I always find my body, so you obviously don't get it, as usual.  I want to rez in order to either keep on fighting, or to be able to recall out of the bloody place, that simple. I certainly have no desire to rez just to be killed again. That is an exercise in futility, and futility per-se is best avoided. Even you could understand the concept if you apply to it!

You are confusing me with someone that wants the proposed change.

And if the OP got the change then .... insert my post here.

I use undertakers staff so I do not need to get my body.

I also have an undertakers staff... I've used it once I believe, ... I dont care about finding my body most of the time, so you see, I don't want to rez for your same reasons.. my body and all in it can rot for all I care. I want to rez for the fun of keeping on fighting...

That's why I agree with the OP. I want Gift of life to be a useful rez, not a waste of time rather to be avoided. If it had let's say, a 15 step count at least, it would be a bit more useful, as it is, I rather walk out as a ghost, than peruse the " 'Gift' of Gray Robe".

It would make weaving even better if it allowed you to run away.

Maybe the devs weighed options and decided walking away and having half HP when you res at a distance and you don't need to build something up again, it was deemed too powerful. 

I would be fine with it letting you walk away. Or staying as is.

It's bad for EM events on LS where the devs like to make the mobs teleport your ghost constantly. Sometimes it seems like forever before you can get your ghost far enough away so you can get back into the fight.

Memory remains fresh that gift of life is useless in dungeon events. Let's forget this and say Sacrifice - there are times when I find it hard to find a safe spot to rez because there are too much spawn around and there are no other players nearby to distract them. I ended up running to another level or higher before activating the rez. Just a second of lag could kill if you rez in the vicinity of paragons.

I think it's fine the way it is. You can always choose not to self-rezz or you can just wait a bit or you can run away from what is killing you before you die. I can think of only a couple times that I didn't have any warning that I was going down. I use it as a backup and never assume it's going to make my gameplay any easier. The second I start feeling cocky is the second right before I get taken out by a mongbat or something equally humiliating.

Gift of Life is a GIFT you can choose to use or not. If the healer is too far, attack it after you get back to living and have it chase you closer to where you need it. I play solo a lot so I get how inconvenient it can be but part of gaming in general is developing critical thinking skills to help you succeed in the game. You can't keep trying to get the game to change to suit you, you have to change to suit the game.