The real problem with Paras

There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"

I think that LS specific there are so many helping to kill them, at prime time, I get no message that I gained fame and my fame is quite low.

So, we are not getting much credit towards killing them. 

It's a crap shoot on Origin there's just not enough people to deal with them . On Cats you call for the paragon clean up crew and boom dead paragons. On my beloved Pacific I'm sorry but we suck just leaving paragons everywhere....

meltedmantis said:

There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"

I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

This should motivate people to kill them.

6500spopps said:

meltedmantis said:

There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"

I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

This should motivate people to kill them.

I'd have 100 more drops. Since I use 2 guys to kill them. Last night I tossed in my archer tamer.

So sure just give a clicky  for drops.

Help others kill the more powerful ones all the time.  But it is a waste of my time to try and solo a para Baldron.  Soloed one once it took about a half a hour for my character.  In that amount of time I could have gotten a lot more points  and maybe some drops of from killing other stuff so I can understand why others pass them by and to be honest so do I.  I will always help others I think that’s what the designers intended but really no reason to waste my time trying to solo one.

Look at me not getting drops very fast happy as a clam because my character can finally participate in these events Yes i know i would look much better in a top hat 

Yeah I got lucky this morning and I didn't see a soul on lvl 2. There were 2 para balrons hidden in the corners that I avoided, was able to kill a handful of paragon others got 3 drops and left. I was quite happy. No I don't get a million drops during these events. I am up to 29 now. I have 2 months. I will get everything I want.

Pawain said:

6500spopps said:

meltedmantis said:

There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"

I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

This should motivate people to kill them.

I'd have 100 more drops. Since I use 2 guys to kill them. Last night I tossed in my archer tamer.

So sure just give a clicky  for drops.

thats a valid point, but I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.... Balron 1:4 drop
para daemon 1:6  para imp 1:32... or something along those lines.

it don't need to be 1:1 but something more than regular mobs.

I mean right now you can PAY 2 dollars for a 50% drop bonus.  So what's a game mechanic with a 25% boost?  make it so that killing paras is like half the PAY 2 WIN potion for that kill.  

Pawain said:

I think that LS specific there are so many helping to kill them, at prime time, I get no message that I gained fame and my fame is quite low.

So, we are not getting much credit towards killing them. 

That is true we have been going really great.  It just something I've noticed off peak when its more sparse.  Then it's a bit frustrating because i'll be trying to tank a para balron and someone will slip by so they can go kill faster mobs. 

Nah, everyone pulls their paragons onto me on LS and runs for it.

ActionElly said:

Nah, everyone pulls their paragons onto me on LS and runs for it.

Glad to help. 🙂

We need to turn up the Fey spawn rate both regular and paragons in fire the opposing slayer danger was real and deadly not so much here nobody's bothering to unequip demon slayer..

McDougle said:

We need to turn up the Fey spawn rate both regular and paragons in fire the opposing slayer danger was real and deadly not so much here nobody's bothering to unequip demon slayer..

False my friend.  The incentive to kill them already exists.  If you run and leave one there eventually you'll spawn another and another and another.  Once there are 3 or 4 of those things running around a level it's shut down until you clean them up.  Also the more you add to the equation the more difficult it is to clean up the mess.  Where as if you simply kill the beast you can farm the room hard core until another spawns.  So your drops per hour increases dramatically if they are all dead.  My advice is get a strategy to kill them as soon as you see them.

ActionElly said:

Nah, everyone pulls their paragons onto me on LS and runs for it.

Me too.  I always kill them as they spawn.  But a lot of people will come down to the room I'm farming, farm it until a couple spawn then leave the mess for me to pick up.  It's obnoxious.

Make them like necro revrants 

Foos said:

False my friend.  The incentive to kill them already exists.  If you run and leave one there eventually you'll spawn another and another and another.  Once there are 3 or 4 of those things running around a level it's shut down until you clean them up.  Also the more you add to the equation the more difficult it is to clean up the mess.  Where as if you simply kill the beast you can farm the room hard core until another spawns.  So your drops per hour increases dramatically if they are all dead.  My advice is get a strategy to kill them as soon as you see them.

meltedmantis said:

Pawain said:

6500spopps said:

meltedmantis said:

There is no incentive to kill them... actually quite the opposite.  the incentive is to let others deal with them, in favor of faster to kill mobs.  Why not raise the drop chance or somthing on para's so players don't just run past tough fights.  On LS many many just dump them on other players then leave.   I have a feeling this would not be happening if that involved leaving a drop behind.  

With all the cheap tricks that have been given to para's I don't think this is a "big ask"

I think that killing 1 Paragon Balron should award 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop to all of those having looting right.

This should motivate people to kill them.

I'd have 100 more drops. Since I use 2 guys to kill them. Last night I tossed in my archer tamer.

So sure just give a clicky  for drops.

thats a valid point, but I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.... Balron 1:4 drop
para daemon 1:6  para imp 1:32... or something along those lines.

it don't need to be 1:1 but something more than regular mobs.

I mean right now you can PAY 2 dollars for a 50% drop bonus.  So what's a game mechanic with a 25% boost?  make it so that killing paras is like half the PAY 2 WIN potion for that kill.  

I think this is the best idea as it would both provide incentive to kill them without making it an autodrop situation. 

Drago said:

Paras aren't the problem.

yesterday i was on lvl 3 died, ok fine run out as ghost.  well the little maze at the end of lvl 1 was impassable because of chest spawn.   

BTW, the luck potions actually provide a negative incentive to kill paras. If you have 60 minutes to reap the benefits, you are not going to waste them on long fights with a high probability of death. Just saying. 

 45 seconds to kill a Paragon Balron 20-30 seconds for a Paragon Elder Gazer or 20-30 imps, wisp, gazers etc in the same 45 seconds that appear to have the same odd of a drop as the big paragons.  Very little real incentive to kill the big paragons.

Tyrath said:

 45 seconds to kill a Paragon Balron 20-30 seconds for a Paragon Elder Gazer or 20-30 imps, wisp, gazers etc in the same 45 seconds that appear to have the same odd of a drop as the big paragons.  Very little real incentive to kill the big paragons.

Not if the Developers made all having looting rights on killing a Paragon Balron or Elder Gazer to be granted 1 Demonic Forces Artifact drop as granted....

There is incentive to kill Para's as mentioned by Kyronix like 3 events ago when people were complaining about the same thing; the paragons give "more points" ie provide increased chance at popping a drop. 

Start working better as a team to work the dungeon or stop killing the balrons. 

I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how difficult paragons are would be the same people complaining about every shard should get the event in fel for "the added difficulty of doing it in fel". Which is it? Does the event need to be easier or harder? lol

keven2002 said:

There is incentive to kill Para's as mentioned by Kyronix like 3 events ago when people were complaining about the same thing; the paragons give "more points" ie provide increased chance at popping a drop. 

Start working better as a team to work the dungeon or stop killing the balrons. 

I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how difficult paragons are would be the same people complaining about every shard should get the event in fel for "the added difficulty of doing it in fel". Which is it? Does the event need to be easier or harder? lol

Lets change what you get from pirating during dungeons instead of cargo you get the of treasures.. 

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Foos said:

False my friend.  The incentive to kill them already exists.  If you run and leave one there eventually you'll spawn another and another and another.  Once there are 3 or 4 of those things running around a level it's shut down until you clean them up.  Also the more you add to the equation the more difficult it is to clean up the mess.  Where as if you simply kill the beast you can farm the room hard core until another spawns.  So your drops per hour increases dramatically if they are all dead.  My advice is get a strategy to kill them as soon as you see them.

On Lvl 4, it's actually easier to just stuff the 3 Balrons in the "closet" of the NW room, and leave them there as you farm all the other rooms.

I kind of miss the old Balron graphic. Where they just looked like a grey Daemon wielding a huge sword.

I agree @Foos. A select handful of people just complain for the sake of complaining. Too little spawn / too much spawn / too easy / too hard / rewards not good enough / rewards are too OP. The list goes on. 

I've found this encounter to be pretty well balanced so far. It's waaaaay better in Tram than WF was because there are more bad guys to kill based on how many people are killing AND with the luck potion available it's not too bad of a return by hunting there. In fact someone I was talking to earlier said they preferred Tram over Fel because with the luck potion it's all about just doing damage so it's actually better to have others helping to clear spawn(mainly paragons) so they can just keep dishing out damage to as many mobs as possible. 

The one imbalance I can see (and agree it is annoying) is everyone in Tram I see go total Leroy Jenkins into the dungeon only to come running back to the entrance with 2-3 paragons that they then leave the dungeon and let others deal with (possibly recalling deeper into the dungeon). Aside from that there is plenty of spawn to get drops. If you are solo and careful you can manage to clear the spawn and stay alive. That said, it does certainly seem like pairing up is probably the best route as it doesn't impact your drops too much but also will help taking down paragon balrons/gazers.

Morgoth said:

That's great that you got lots of players to group up with but our shared isn't very populated so it's not easy to get a large posse of like minded players to share the kills.

I'm glad the Devs have made you above average players happy with this gameplay and that you are rewarded as you are so justly deserved.

Don't kill plain Balrons and paragons wont spawn.

Morgoth said:

That's great that you got lots of players to group up with but our shared isn't very populated so it's not easy to get a large posse of like minded players to share the kills.

I'm glad the Devs have made you above average players happy with this gameplay and that you are rewarded as you are so justly deserved.

What shard do you play? If it isn't very populated then I'd guess there is probably plenty of times that whole sections of the dungeon are empty. Another tactic is to just lead a paragon down like the west side of a level and just kill stuff on the east. Again if you don't have a very populated of a shard I'd imagine that it would stay there for a while to let you kill other stuff.

I'm on Oceania.  Tonight actually wasn't bad as I had the 1st floor to myself and led a plain balron into a room.  The others and para versions were already in other rooms so I just ran around trouble free for about 3 hours, got my 18 drops to get the chest when another player came in and started clearing out the rooms messing everything up.

Sometimes there is not enough players to help kill the Balron Paras, so I either moved or ignore them.

1) I lure them into another small room, then recall away. Then I recall back to the previous location and enjoy slaughtering huge group of mobs. 

2) If I cannot lure because there is no door, then I honor myself before going into the room. So I kill everything besides the Balron Para, just making sure I do not accidentally hit this guy.

Tools required:
- Samurai bushido honor
- Protection spell on always

keven2002 said:

There is incentive to kill Para's as mentioned by Kyronix like 3 events ago when people were complaining about the same thing; the paragons give "more points" ie provide increased chance at popping a drop. 

Start working better as a team to work the dungeon or stop killing the balrons. 

I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how difficult paragons are would be the same people complaining about every shard should get the event in fel for "the added difficulty of doing it in fel". Which is it? Does the event need to be easier or harder? lol

having it in fel, actually made it easier
because then the ones who kill quicker
are there instead of killing everything here
you don't know how disappointing it is
to open a door to go attack something
and someone else comes charging in
with a swing they take down everything
before my pet can blink

Cinderella said:

keven2002 said:

There is incentive to kill Para's as mentioned by Kyronix like 3 events ago when people were complaining about the same thing; the paragons give "more points" ie provide increased chance at popping a drop. 

Start working better as a team to work the dungeon or stop killing the balrons. 

I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how difficult paragons are would be the same people complaining about every shard should get the event in fel for "the added difficulty of doing it in fel". Which is it? Does the event need to be easier or harder? lol

having it in fel, actually made it easier
because then the ones who kill quicker
are there instead of killing everything here
you don't know how disappointing it is
to open a door to go attack something
and someone else comes charging in
with a swing they take down everything
before my pet can blink

.....you don't know how disappointing it is
to open a door to go attack something
and someone else comes charging in
with a swing they take down everything
before my pet can blink.....

Tell it to Ultima Online's Developers ( @Kyronix ? )  when, Treasures of Event after Treasures of Event, still Tamers (as well as other Templates), are not given "something" to be able to be "on par" with these "Swingers' Templates" and compete with their speed at killing everything....

The other issue there, which, to my opinion, is overlooked, is that the "cost" of these Rewards is usually prohibitive or at least very penalizing for those Templates, other then these "Swingers", who are unable to kill "as fast" and, thus, have a much lower drop rate....

Because of this imbalance in how different is the drop rate for different Templates to get Treasures of Artifact drops, the Developers have the problem that, if they set the Rewards' cost too low to help out those Templates who cannot get drops as fast as these "Swingers", then these "Swingers" who get drops a go-go (I heard of someone on Atlantic who is able, with the Store bought potion, to have 60 drops in 1 hour....), would be able to get tons of these Rewards.

On the other end, if the Rewards' cost is set as high, to take into account the "speed" for these "Swingers" to get drops, then, other Templates who cannot get even close to these "Swingers" drop rate, would have it an impossible task to get any of the better Rewards.

So, what would the solution need to be, to address this gross imbalance ?

To my opinion, it would be one that would bring Templates "other" then these "Swingers", to be able to kill "as fast" and, therefore, be able to reach a similar drop rate as "Swingers" do, to get these Treasures of Artifact drops.

Or, code in "special" bonuses for skill sets to have a higher likeliness to get Treasures of Artifact drops...

For example, a Template that was to use 360 points in Taming skills (120Taming, Vet and Lore) and use Animal Taming Mastery, would be given a "bonus" in their likeliness to get a Treasures of Artifact drop when their pet would get looting rights regardless of the Luck worn...

This way, even if Tamers were to kill much less as these "Swingers", those much fewer kills would still yield them the same amount of drops per hour of gameplay as the "Swingers" get...

Yet you posted a picture of your sampire with a demon breastplate we all have the same chances here..i CHOOSE to play my Bard sometimes because i enjoy it i get a couple drops and help others then I eat a potion on my thrower and get as many arties as the sampires (without a swampy damage reduction cuz f gargoyles) 

McDougle said:

Yet you posted a picture of your sampire with a demon breastplate we all have the same chances here..i CHOOSE to play my Bard sometimes because i enjoy it i get a couple drops and help others then I eat a potion on my thrower and get as many arties as the sampires (without a swampy damage reduction cuz f gargoyles) 

I HAD TO make a "Swinger".

I did not want to, but, because of Design decision which favour these Swingers and penalize other Templates who cannot even get close to these "Swingers" ability to get drops, I saw myself without much alternatives, if I wanted to get some of those Rewards....

But I do not like it.

I would like to play a Tamer, yet, if the Design does not help Tamers to get drops, and helps "Swingers", what can I do ?

No you CHOSE to make one i saw you got a wildfire mask with your tamer so you a capable. you just want more faster keeping up with the jones so to speak..

McDougle said:

No you CHOSE to make one i saw you got a wildfire mask with your tamer so you a capable. you just want more faster keeping up with the jones so to speak..

Did I want to have a "decent" chance to be able to get some of the better Rewards ?

Yes.

Could I do it with my Tamer and the current Design which penalizes Tamers and favours "Swingers" ?

No.

Therefore, since I wanted to get some of the better Rewards, because of the current Design which favours Swingers and penalizes other Templates, I HAD TO make a Swinger.

It was NOT a choice, it was the only realistic possibility I had to be able to get some of the better Rewards, given how expensive their cost was set.

So the template that is constantly involved with playing by having to push buttons and move around is getting the most drops.  Sounds fair to me.  All Kill stand still should get fewer drops per/time.

Pawain said:

So the template that is constantly involved with playing by having to push buttons and move around is getting the most drops.  Sounds fair to me.  All Kill stand still should get fewer drops per/time.

Paddy cakes why do you insist on silly statements playing a tamer is actually harder in these events....

popps said:

McDougle said:

Yet you posted a picture of your sampire with a demon breastplate we all have the same chances here..i CHOOSE to play my Bard sometimes because i enjoy it i get a couple drops and help others then I eat a potion on my thrower and get as many arties as the sampires (without a swampy damage reduction cuz f gargoyles) 

I HAD TO make a "Swinger".

I did not want to, but, because of Design decision which favour these Swingers and penalize other Templates who cannot even get close to these "Swingers" ability to get drops, I saw myself without much alternatives, if I wanted to get some of those Rewards....

But I do not like it.

I would like to play a Tamer, yet, if the Design does not help Tamers to get drops, and helps "Swingers", what can I do ?

The wife and me are swingers too... Swing by sometime....

vortex said:

popps said:

McDougle said:

Yet you posted a picture of your sampire with a demon breastplate we all have the same chances here..i CHOOSE to play my Bard sometimes because i enjoy it i get a couple drops and help others then I eat a potion on my thrower and get as many arties as the sampires (without a swampy damage reduction cuz f gargoyles) 

I HAD TO make a "Swinger".

I did not want to, but, because of Design decision which favour these Swingers and penalize other Templates who cannot even get close to these "Swingers" ability to get drops, I saw myself without much alternatives, if I wanted to get some of those Rewards....

But I do not like it.

I would like to play a Tamer, yet, if the Design does not help Tamers to get drops, and helps "Swingers", what can I do ?

The wife and me are swingers too... Swing by sometime....

I'd like this if I could  😂

I don’t play on Atlantic so I can’t comment on the accuracy ray drop rates I read about in this forum but I don’t know of anyone getting a drop rate of anything close to 60 drops per hour on my shard and i play with really good players that have been playing for years.  Is it realistic to assume some players are getting 60 drops per hour or close to it?  I see players with pets that can kill any para in the game but I don’t think even their drop rate is close to 60 drops per hour.
also, what is a swinger?  Referring here to Ultima Online in game swingers just to clarify.

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

So the template that is constantly involved with playing by having to push buttons and move around is getting the most drops.  Sounds fair to me.  All Kill stand still should get fewer drops per/time.

Paddy cakes why do you insist on silly statements playing a tamer is actually harder in these events....

Harder no. But on LS we have a lot of spawn and a pet cant kill 5 at a time like a toon with WW can.  I know what Cinderella speaks of. whoever is fastest with the WW gets the kills.  I'm that guy that kills what is in front of a pet and leaves an empty hall for them to walk down.

I have 2 tamers on every day.  Great for killing those annoying para Balrons.

Knowledge of UO would benefit you immensely.

Pawain said:

McDougle said:

Pawain said:

So the template that is constantly involved with playing by having to push buttons and move around is getting the most drops.  Sounds fair to me.  All Kill stand still should get fewer drops per/time.

Paddy cakes why do you insist on silly statements playing a tamer is actually harder in these events....

Harder no. But on LS we have a lot of spawn and a pet cant kill 5 at a time like a toon with WW can.  I know what Cinderella speaks of. whoever is fastest with the WW gets the kills.  I'm that guy that kills what is in front of a pet and leaves an empty hall for them to walk down.

I have 2 tamers on every day.  Great for killing those annoying para Balrons.

Knowledge of UO would benefit you immensely.

Oh paddy cakes you're my favorite arch nemesis i hear by dub you by your new arch nemesis name the Twister

popps said:

I HAD TO make a "Swinger".

You name him "Austin Powers"? Groovy, baby. Shagadelic.

Arnold7 said:

I don’t play on Atlantic so I can’t comment on the accuracy ray drop rates I read about in this forum but I don’t know of anyone getting a drop rate of anything close to 60 drops per hour on my shard and i play with really good players that have been playing for years.  Is it realistic to assume some players are getting 60 drops per hour or close to it?  I see players with pets that can kill any para in the game but I don’t think even their drop rate is close to 60 drops per hour.
also, what is a swinger?  Referring here to Ultima Online in game swingers just to clarify.

Warriors who "swing" their weapons to hit their target or, often, multiple targets at once....

I used that word in reply to @Cinderella who wrote

.....you don't know how disappointing it is
to open a door to go attack something
and someone else comes charging in
with a swing they take down everything
before my pet can blink.....

@popps maybe use the word Melee attack?  Or you could even use the correct special move, since they hit more than 2 mobs that would be a Whirlwind attack. Since you said you built a warrior you should know what you are doing.  Love to see that guy in action. What type  pointy stick does he use?  Broom or shovel handle?

Keep in mind popps has earned a demon breastplate with his sampire 

Poops still trollin in here? guess i'll keep . . .

... and then the conversation turned.