Can someone explain these CU Sidhe Regens ?

I lored someone's CU Sidhe and these were its Regens : 

- Hit Point Regeneration 42
- Stamina Regeneration 22
- Mana Regeneration 52

Considering how the MAXes are 20, 30 and 30, how is it possible to explain that 42 HP Regen and that 52 MR ?

Bard buffs ?? The pet treats you find in treasure hunting??

McDougle said:

Bard buffs ?? The pet treats you find in treasure hunting??

I cannot be sure, but, my impression is that there were no Bard songs played... when there are, the Bard has sparkles over him/her and I do not recall seeing them.

Even if, though https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/bardic-skills/bard-masteries/ says :

Resilience	kal mani tym	Cast: 30 Upkeep: 8
Poison resistance increase(not the stat), Mortal, Bleed, Curse effect Durations decreased, Hp regen bonus 2-8, mana regen bonus 2-8, stamina regen bonus 2-8.

Even with a Hit Points Regen that was at the MAX possible of 20, how could the CU Sidhe go up to 42 (+22 HP Regen) when Resilience adds 2-8 HP Regen Bonus ?

The same for Mana Regen, even assuming that it was at the Max possible of 30, how could it jump to 52 (+ 22 Mana Regen) when Resilience adds 2-8 Mana Regen Bonus ?

As in regards to pet treats, of course I do not know if they were used, but, I would be surprised if they gave a buff of some 110% for the HP Regen and some 52% for the Mana Regen, assuming that the pet had them maxed out to 20 and 30 to start with....

The best pets' Treats are https://www.uoguide.com/Irresistibly_Tasty_Treat ;

And, as I understand it, they give a 15% buff to pets' stats, not 110% and 52% ....
So, I do not think it was pet Treats....

@popps why didn't you just ask??

McDougle said:

@ popps why didn't you just ask??

Because the player was moving as fast as a rocket, moving mounted all the time, dismount, send the CU out to kill, stay away from trouble, mount it as soon as the CU was done and quick he moved away..... before I could ask anything...

By the time I lored the CU Sidhe, the player was already gone.

General chat??

Yes that's the song. 

Amazing what you can do when you know how to play a tamer.

Resilience and toughness gives my macer 184HP. But the paragons always go directly to my bard.

You can get a temp.(20min) buff to hpr with humility virtue, +30 hpr on pet if you are knight og humility.

Also consume adds to HPR when the pet is damaged. It has a cap.

Pawain said:

Yes that's the song. 

Amazing what you can do when you know how to play a tamer.

Resilience and toughness gives my macer 184HP. But the paragons always go directly to my bard.

How can it be the Resilience Bard Mastery when all it gives is +2 to +8 HP Regen or Mana Regen while that pet, assuming that it was at the starting Max of 20 HP Regen and 30 Mana Regen got a +22 Regen increase for HP Regen and another +22 Mana Regen increase ?

I mean, from the MAX buff possible of 8 from the Bard Mastery to the one that I actually lored of +22 there is a 14 points difference in Regeneration...

Jbo said:

You can get a temp.(20min) buff to hpr with humility virtue, +30 hpr on pet if you are knight og humility.

The pet I saw had 42 Hit Points Regeneration.

If what you indicate was to be true, this means that this CU Sidhe, with all Skills scrolled to 120, was trained up with only 12 Hit Point Regeneration ?

Everything can be possible, but I seriously doubt that someone scrolling a pet all the way to 120 in some 5 skills (Ninjitsu, Bushido, Parrying, Healing and Wrestling) would then only train 12 Hit Points Regeneration on that pet...

Also, how to then explain the 52 Mana Regeneration then ?

Therefore, I am incline to think that it might not have been a Humility Virtue buff....

Now since you don't accept any of the answers given here how about you hop in general chat and ask a bard to party you ??

Pawain said:

Also consume adds to HPR when the pet is damaged. It has a cap.

But the Tamer was not in line of sight with the Cu Sidhe (he was across a corner).... to my understanding, Consume needs line of sight AND has a limited max range to work....

Also, the pet had BOTH Hit Points Regeneration (42) AND Mana Regeneration (52) buffed up, not just HPR....

I do not think it might have been either Consume....

Now you said he was like a speeding bullet how could you make so many observations yet not be able to ask??

When you Lore a pet, the Lore Scroll with the various pages stays up even if the pet exits your screen....

And I took screen shots of all of the pages of that CU Sidhe Lore.... so, I can go back to check them to see what that pet had on....

popps said:

When you Lore a pet, the Lore Scroll with the various pages stays up even if the pet exits your screen....

And I took screen shots of all of the pages of that CU Sidhe Lore.... so, I can go back to check them to see what that pet had on....

While you were busy with this how many arties did you get 

McDougle said:

popps said:

When you Lore a pet, the Lore Scroll with the various pages stays up even if the pet exits your screen....

And I took screen shots of all of the pages of that CU Sidhe Lore.... so, I can go back to check them to see what that pet had on....

While you were busy with this how many arties did you get 

How would I need to read that comment, in what sense ?

It would not be relevant to find out that there perhaps are Tamers out there who might be getting buffs to their pets' Regenerations, that noone so far, in this Thread, has been able to give me a reasonable and logical explaination of ?

popps said:

Pawain said:

Yes that's the song. 

Amazing what you can do when you know how to play a tamer.

Resilience and toughness gives my macer 184HP. But the paragons always go directly to my bard.

How can it be the Resilience Bard Mastery when all it gives is +2 to +8 HP Regen or Mana Regen while that pet, assuming that it was at the starting Max of 20 HP Regen and 30 Mana Regen got a +22 Regen increase for HP Regen and another +22 Mana Regen increase ?

I mean, from the MAX buff possible of 8 from the Bard Mastery to the one that I actually lored of +22 there is a 14 points difference in Regeneration...

4*120 bard's peacemaking mastery Resilience gives 22 regen to HP , Mana and stamina. 22 for each. 
Explanation in UO wiki is not full. It includes only posible 2-8 from Peacemaking. Without bonuses from other bard skills (music, discordance, provo). Uoguide has much better explanation. 
End of discussion. 

I gave you my the complete correct answer in the first reply multiple people confirm i offered suggestions on on to learn in game none of which was enough for you my comment was directed to you because of past complaints that there just wasn't enough time to get the arties you needed yet here we are 

My dog with peace songs.

The one in your pic has 0 stam regen without songs.

This is why I think bards get enough out of these events.

Gwen said:

popps said:

Pawain said:

Yes that's the song. 

Amazing what you can do when you know how to play a tamer.

Resilience and toughness gives my macer 184HP. But the paragons always go directly to my bard.

How can it be the Resilience Bard Mastery when all it gives is +2 to +8 HP Regen or Mana Regen while that pet, assuming that it was at the starting Max of 20 HP Regen and 30 Mana Regen got a +22 Regen increase for HP Regen and another +22 Mana Regen increase ?

I mean, from the MAX buff possible of 8 from the Bard Mastery to the one that I actually lored of +22 there is a 14 points difference in Regeneration...

4*120 bard's peacemaking mastery Resilience gives 22 regen to HP , Mana and stamina. 22 for each. 
Explanation in UO wiki is not full. It includes only posible 2-8 from Peacemaking. Without bonuses from other bard skills (music, discordance, provo). Uoguide has much better explanation. 
End of discussion. 

@Mariah , 

could you please Edit the UOWiki page to add the information which Gwen is talking about, please ?

 Since the Stamina Regeneration that I lored was at 22, according to what you say, does that necessarily mean that this CU Sidhe HAD TO HAVE a Stamina Regeneration set at 0 ?

So, correct me if I am wrong, without the Bard Mastery Resilience this Cu Sidhe had to have its Regenerations as: 

- Hit Point Regeneration 20
- Stamina Regeneration 0
- Mana Regeneration 30

So that, with ALL 4*120 Bard Skills and the Bard Mastery Resilience song they would end up to what I saw them as being : 

- Hit Point Regeneration 20 + 22 = 42
- Stamina Regeneration 0 + 22 = 22
- Mana Regeneration 30 + 22 = 52

Now, if so, that could make sense ALTHOUGH, this also means that such a tamer could only have on the Template (to the purpose of Masteries skills HAVE TO BE real skills, cannot be on items...): 

120 Musicianship
120 Peacemaking
120 Provocation
120 Discordance
120 Animal Taming
120 Animal Lore

No room for anything else, no Veterinary ro res a pet, no Spellweaving to use Gift of Life, no Magery to heal the pet if necessary and all that....

Sure, a little Magery could be on items but, not enough to be effective on healing a pet...

I mean, how many Tamers would run such a Template ?

With resilience and the peace songs my NOOB toons with 100 melee skills can tank captains at shrine battles.  I have 3 and a half set of tabards to prove it.  Tabards are one per toon I make a toon put 100 skills on and get a tabard in the same day.  Delete him in 7 days.

Pawain said:

My dog with peace songs.

The one in your pic has 0 stam regen without songs.

This is why I think bards get enough out of these events.

May I ask if you have on your Template ALL 4 Bard skills maxed out at 120 in each (480 total) in order to Buff the pet's Regens for +22 for each one of them ?

Also, if so, with 480 skill points all taken by Bard skills, and having to have also Animal Taming and Animal Lore at 120 each, how do you handle for the necessary pet resses, heals and all the rest which a Tamer might need ?

I use 2 accounts.  The Archer/Bard is doing the buffs.  He has 804 skill points. jewels quiver headdress.
Works great to train pets at the crazy mage.  Have to vet the low pets still.  But they die less often.

With 480 you have 240 skills left.  You could make a complete 120 bard and have 120 taming 120 Lore.
You use  a Cu, mount and run away before the pet dies.  You can use scrolls for magery spells.

A lot of tamers on LS remove vet and put on other skills for this event.  Since a Cu works so well.

Popps… using vet to rez a pet is not required! I use gift of life, elixir of rebirth, another friendly tamer or stable master! I dont got enough skill pts for 40-80 vet.

Sigh if you had a bard you would know only music and the skill you're running the mastery for matter so easy 
Music
Peace 
Tame
Lore
Vet
 magery
Just learn to not only listen but actually believe and accept the answers you get..

Pawain said:

I use 2 accounts.  The Archer/Bard is doing the buffs.  He has 804 skill points. jewels quiver headdress.
Works great to train pets at the crazy mage.  Have to vet the low pets still.  But they die less often.

With 480 you have 240 skills left.  You could make a complete 120 bard and have 120 taming 120 Lore.
You use  a Cu, mount and run away before the pet dies.  You can use scrolls for magery spells.

A lot of tamers on LS remove vet and put on other skills for this event.  Since a Cu works so well.

Two accounts I can understand... but this Tamer, was alone....

And to have 1 single account with 4x120 bard skills and 2x120 Taming skills and hardly anything else is quite odd, don't you think ?

Yes some use just music and the song they want.  But you get less in return but less is better than none.

Jbo said:

Popps… using vet to rez a pet is not required! I use gift of life, elixir of rebirth, another friendly tamer or stable master! I dont got enough skill pts for 40-80 vet.

With 4x120 Bard Skills plus 120 Animal Taming and 120 Anomal Lore, there simply is not room on such a Template for Spellweaving to accomodate Gift of Life...

The Elixir of Rebirth could come handy although, at 1 Medusa blood per Elixir, it comes kinda expensive unless one farms Medusa all the time....

McDougle said:

Sigh if you had a bard you would know only music and the skill you're running the mastery for matter so easy 
Music
Peace 
Tame
Lore
Vet
 magery
Just learn to not only listen but actually believe and accept the answers you get..

Yes, but in THAT case, with only Musicianship and ONE Bardic skill, for example Peacemaking in order to use the Bard Mastery Resilience for the Pet's Regenerations buffs, the buffs would NOT be +22 for each of them 3....

At this point, I do not even know what the buffs would be... because I was going with the UO WIki Page which says : 

Resilience	kal mani tym	Cast: 30 Upkeep: 8
Poison resistance increase(not the stat), Mortal, Bleed, Curse effect Durations decreased, Hp regen bonus 2-8, mana regen bonus 2-8, stamina regen bonus 2-8.

I took that 2-8 meaning +2 with 1 full Bard skill, +4 with 2 Bard skills, +6 with 3 Bard skills and +8 with all of the four Bard skills (real skills, not on items) being on the Template...

But, apparently, since @Gwen, said that with 4x120 Bard skills the Regens Buffs is +22 for EACH of the 3 pet's Regenerations, then I do not understand any longer what that UO Wiki page wants to mean...

@Mariah , please, could you therefore correct that UO Wiki page and indicate what the correct Buffs with Resilience would be when having 1 or 2 or 3 or all 4 Bard skills ?

Thanks !

popps said:

May I ask if you have on your Template ALL 4 Bard skills maxed out at 120 in each (480 total) in order to Buff the pet's Regens for +22 for each one of them ?

Also, if so, with 480 skill points all taken by Bard skills, and having to have also Animal Taming and Animal Lore at 120 each, how do you handle for the necessary pet resses, heals and all the rest which a Tamer might need ?

popps said:

Two accounts I can understand... but this Tamer, was alone....

And to have 1 single account with 4x120 bard skills and 2x120 Taming skills and hardly anything else is quite odd, don't you think ?

********
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7895/what-is-the-new-tears-of-the-ice-dragon-spellbook-good-for-any-advice/p1

popps said:

I have been trying to wonder what type of use would be most appropriate for the new spellbook from Tears of the Ice Dragon but...

Arroth_Thaiel said:

I wasn't going to say anything, but since @Mene_Drachenfels let it out of the bag! The book makes it quite easy to put together 7x120 Bard templates. (or, dare I say, 8x 120 for one particular template, if you get the complimentary gear!)

Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
My tamer template uses 795pts.

Arroth_Thaiel said:

popps said:

May I ask if you have on your Template ALL 4 Bard skills maxed out at 120 in each (480 total) in order to Buff the pet's Regens for +22 for each one of them ?

Also, if so, with 480 skill points all taken by Bard skills, and having to have also Animal Taming and Animal Lore at 120 each, how do you handle for the necessary pet resses, heals and all the rest which a Tamer might need ?

popps said:

Two accounts I can understand... but this Tamer, was alone....

And to have 1 single account with 4x120 bard skills and 2x120 Taming skills and hardly anything else is quite odd, don't you think ?

********
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7895/what-is-the-new-tears-of-the-ice-dragon-spellbook-good-for-any-advice/p1

popps said:

I have been trying to wonder what type of use would be most appropriate for the new spellbook from Tears of the Ice Dragon but

Arroth_Thaiel said:

I wasn't going to say anything, but since @ Mene_Drachenfels let it out of the bag! The book makes it quite easy to put together 7x120 Bard templates. (or, dare I say, 8x 120 for one particular template, if you get the complimentary gear!)

Are you trying to say that the +20 Magery Book would help getting a Template with : 

120 Musicianship
120 Peacemaking
120 Provocation
120 Discordance
120 Animal Taming
120 Animal Lore
120 Magery
120 ???

Care to explain how ?

I find myself having a hard time seeing how one could get to 120 Magery as a 7th skill with items, considering that, in between the Book, Ring and Bracelet at most one could get to 60 Magery... where would one fit the other 60 Magery Skill points ?

Then, the 8th skill would even get more complicated since one could get 40 points on a ring and bracelet but where to get the additional 80 points ?

I mean, how ??

The 8th 120 would be Meditation, primarily for Song upkeep, secondarily for Consume.

Jbo said:

Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
My tamer template uses 795pts.

Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....

Arroth_Thaiel said:

The 8th 120 would be Meditation, for Consume.

That would make sense...

But then, what would be the suit be like, to accomodate those 8 x 120 skills ?

Care to please get more into details ?

popps said:

Jbo said:

Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
My tamer template uses 795pts.

Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....

I dont have active bard, but according to uoguide having realskill in the bard skills only affects the mana upkeep not effectiness, havent tested myself.

ofc you can use skill items for taming/Lore before the masteries i was to lazy to train up taming i ran with +30 taming on jewels.

When I had a few not real skills I was doing 17 instead of 22.  And yes all masteries reduce mana when you have 120 real skill.

Pet control is not real skill but when you die and don't have your jewels on, dont command the pet.

In the case of the tamer bard you would want real on the bard skills since you are using those masteries.

The correct bard mastery bonuses are described here:
https://www.uoguide.com/Bard_Masteries

The data being referred to by popps may only apply up to GM levels.

People that play bards certainly know these numbers 🙂

popps said:

 that noone so far, in this Thread, has been able to give me a reasonable and logical explaination of ?

The first answer was Bard Buffs...  You do not accept any answers.  Tamers still do fine in this dungeon.  It is not like deceit where there were groups of mobs.  I probably do WW twice an hour.

We need more spawn on LS tho.

Jbo said:

popps said:

Jbo said:

Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
My tamer template uses 795pts.

Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....

I dont have active bard, but according to uoguide having realskill in the bard skills only affects the mana upkeep not effectiness, havent tested myself.

ofc you can use skill items for taming/Lore before the masteries i was to lazy to train up taming i ran with +30 taming on jewels.

I was my understanding that, ALL Masteries, in order to take skill points to benefit them (better efficacy), need for those skill points to be "real", not on items...

So, for example, having Animal Taming skill points on items, would reduce the efficacy of the Animal Taming Mastery, to my understanding....

People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 

Pawain said:

popps said:

 that noone so far, in this Thread, has been able to give me a reasonable and logical explaination of ?

The first answer was Bard Buffs...  You do not accept any answers.  Tamers still do fine in this dungeon.  It is not like deceit where there were groups of mobs.  I probably do WW twice an hour.

We need more spawn on LS tho.

Sure it was YET, I was going with UO Wiki explaination of 2-8 points increase so, it did not make sense to me...

If 4 x 120 Bard Skills give +22 Regens in each of the 3 Regenerations as @ForeverFun mentioned that https://www.uoguide.com/Bard_Masteries indicates, then I need to imagine that the UO Wiki should get updated and contain the correct informations...

popps said:

Jbo said:

popps said:

Jbo said:

Or if the pet dont die very often… if you are a bard, you only need those skill as “realskill” then you can stack up with all kinds of +skill items.
My tamer template uses 795pts.

Well, if only a 4 x 120 Bard REAL skills can use the Resilience Bard Mastery song to add +22 Regeneration points to each of a pet's Hit Points, Stamina and Mana Regenerations, at least for Bard skills, those cannot be on items...

Not sure if the Tamers' skills can be on items either to then more effectively be able to control one's own Pet....

I dont have active bard, but according to uoguide having realskill in the bard skills only affects the mana upkeep not effectiness, havent tested myself.

ofc you can use skill items for taming/Lore before the masteries i was to lazy to train up taming i ran with +30 taming on jewels.

I was my understanding that, ALL Masteries, in order to take skill points to benefit them (better efficacy), need for those skill points to be "real", not on items...

So, for example, having Animal Taming skill points on items, would reduce the efficacy of the Animal Taming Mastery, to my understanding....

Yes but you cant have 2 masteries active at the same time. For taming you get increased mana upkeep cost with less realskill, i still use some +taming skill items as i run in wraith form and leech mana back from the spell dmg i do to the mobs.

Remember its a game of compromises! We cant allways have everything…

McDougle said:

People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 

According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

This Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43531/#Comment_43531 says : 

.... i believe shield bash damage is calculated on parrying real skill....

and this Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43541/#Comment_43541 says, flat out: 

All masteries that take skill into effect are calculated on real skill.

So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

That is at least the way I always understood it works....

@kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.

popps said:

McDougle said:

People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 

According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

This Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43531/#Comment_43531 says : 

.... i believe shield bash damage is calculated on parrying real skill....

and this Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43541/#Comment_43541 says, flat out: 

All masteries that take skill into effect are calculated on real skill.

So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

That is at least the way I always understood it works....

@ kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.

Why do you waste everyone's time trying to explain this to you if your asking a Dev now....

popps said:

McDougle said:

People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 

According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

That is at least the way I always understood it works....

@ kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.

OMG why are you jumping on tangents?  REAL Skill and primer III is needed to get the full benefits of Masteries.

That player was using real 480 bard skills.  Bards don't need primers they are auto at all the masteries.
He can use items to increase skills he is not using for masteries. 

My 120 mage 120 Weaving 120 taming and lore can switch masteries to either one.  I ate the III primers.  Ten minute cool down.

popps said:

Now, if so, that could make sense ALTHOUGH, this also means that such a tamer could only have on the Template (to the purpose of Masteries skills HAVE TO BE real skills, cannot be on items...): 

120 Musicianship
120 Peacemaking
120 Provocation
120 Discordance
120 Animal Taming
120 Animal Lore

No room for anything else, no Veterinary ro res a pet, no Spellweaving to use Gift of Life, no Magery to heal the pet if necessary and all that....

Sure, a little Magery could be on items but, not enough to be effective on healing a pet...

I mean, how many Tamers would run such a Template ?

No, you counting wrong.
For 22 regen resilence you need 4*120 bard skills. Real skills, no jewels allowed. 
But to control Cu you need Animal Lore 108 (better be 110) and Animal Taming 108 (i use 112-113) .  No need real skill here, with jewels is OK. And pet obeys you.  120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. Otherwise it is a waste of points. 
Which gives you plenty of room to squeeze 110-120 magery in this template (with jewels too) to hold swords of prosperity or Kotl rod, or whatever for self-defence and invis if needed. You cannot hide running resilence but  it will often disattract mob.

Arroth_Thaiel said:

********
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7895/what-is-the-new-tears-of-the-ice-dragon-spellbook-good-for-any-advice/p1

+20 magery  spellbook is no good here. You can have higher magery, but you will have no wrestling, (or no EvaInt +Anatomy) so any mongbat will hit you easy. I tried, everything hits you, poisons you and you are loosing stamina. And cannot run. And obtaining one more grey robe to your collection. . Way better to have some Mage weapon -0 with spell channel. Dont forget damage can interrupt bard song. Survivability is more important  than little extra healing. Difference is not very big. 
At 93 Magery invis works 100% . This should be a milestone. Higher- good. Less mobs will hit you. 

vortex said:

popps said:

McDougle said:

People keep explaining you keep not hearing real skill affects mana cost and up keep that is all 

According to this Post here https://community.stratics.com/threads/provo-masteries-and-real-skill.400947/post-2943410 as well as this other Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/42087/#Comment_42087 REAL skill points affect the efficacy of Masteries....

This Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43531/#Comment_43531 says : 

.... i believe shield bash damage is calculated on parrying real skill....

and this Post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/43541/#Comment_43541 says, flat out: 

All masteries that take skill into effect are calculated on real skill.

So, if one wants to get FULL benefit from a given Mastery, they should want to run the related skill for that Mastery with only real skill points, no skill points on items...

That is at least the way I always understood it works....

@ kyronix , can you please clarify this once and for all ?

In relation to Masteries, what exactly do "real" skill points affect for that Mastery ?

The actual buffs which the Mastery provides as some players seem to indicate, or mere mana cost and upkeep as some other players seem to indicate ?

Thank you SO much for the much welcomed clarification.

Why do you waste everyone's time trying to explain this to you if your asking a Dev now....

Because I get conflicting indications from different players which it shows me, that the issue is yet to be clearly known....

And, in order for a Developer to "step in" and clarify the issue once and for all, I would guess that the Developer would also need to see how players are confused and divided on this matter....

Considering the importance of Masteries in the gameplay of Ultima Online, one would imagine that a final clarification from the Developers would be important, to all players' benefit.

Gwen said:

popps said:

Now, if so, that could make sense ALTHOUGH, this also means that such a tamer could only have on the Template (to the purpose of Masteries skills HAVE TO BE real skills, cannot be on items...): 

120 Musicianship
120 Peacemaking
120 Provocation
120 Discordance
120 Animal Taming
120 Animal Lore

No room for anything else, no Veterinary ro res a pet, no Spellweaving to use Gift of Life, no Magery to heal the pet if necessary and all that....

Sure, a little Magery could be on items but, not enough to be effective on healing a pet...

I mean, how many Tamers would run such a Template ?

No, you counting wrong.
For 22 regen resilence you need 4*120 bard skills. Real skills, no jewels allowed. 
But to control Cu you need Animal Lore 108 (better be 110) and Animal Taming 108 (i use 112-113) .  No need real skill here, with jewels is OK. And pet obeys you.  120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. Otherwise it is a waste of points. 
Which gives you plenty of room to squeeze 110-120 magery in this template (with jewels too) to hold swords of prosperity or Kotl rod, or whatever for self-defence and invis if needed. You cannot hide running resilence but  it will often disattract mob.

120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. 

Yet, isn't the Animal Taming Mastery Consume an important Mastery to use for a Tamer ?

Gwen said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:

********
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/7895/what-is-the-new-tears-of-the-ice-dragon-spellbook-good-for-any-advice/p1

+20 magery  spellbook is no good here. You can have higher magery, but you will have no wrestling, (or no EvaInt +Anatomy) so any mongbat will hit you easy. I tried, everything hits you, poisons you and you are loosing stamina. And cannot run. And obtaining one more grey robe to your collection. . Way better to have some Mage weapon -0 with spell channel. Dont forget damage can interrupt bard song. Survivability is more important  than little extra healing. Difference is not very big. 
At 93 Magery invis works 100% . This should be a milestone. Higher- good. Less mobs will hit you. 

Dont forget damage can interrupt bard song. 

I would say that this one is a big one in favour of a -0 Mage Weapon and not of the +20 Magery spellbook for a Bard-Tamer....

popps said:

120 taming and lore are usefull only for  running taming mastery Consume. 

Yet, isn't the Animal Taming Mastery Consume an important Mastery to use for a Tamer ?

I only find consume marginally useful for training pets....

The balakai staff is useful if you're being chased.  But that doesn't mean you have to have that equipped/used at all times.

popps said:

Yet, isn't the Animal Taming Mastery Consume an important Mastery to use for a Tamer ?

For the persone who decided to have 4*120 bard skills and use peace mastery Consume is not important. You just cannot use 2 masteries of different skills at a time. That person uses resilence so more than 108/112 taming /lore will be a waste. 
Also template with 4*120 bard skills is feasible without using Time of Legends booster. 
You what, dont beleive that there are different templates and people have different sets of skills? What are you trying to know in this topic? Read mine and other people answers. Go to test server. try them all. 
None of my tamers ever ate primer III or had 120 taming. I am too lazy to raise that and too greedy to spend gold on that primer. I am finding other ways to play. 

Answer to your question:
Taming mastery Consume is important for a Tamer who plans to rely on Consume. For other templates other masteries and skills are important. 

My apologies, I seem to be missing an update from publish 67. Also I suspect some input from Logrus some time ago. I have updated the page to the best of my ability, subject to the site update.

Can you have 3 bards all running different songs at the same time?  Inspire / Perseverance / Despair for example in a party?

Bilbo said:

Can you have 3 bards all running different songs at the same time?  Inspire / Perseverance / Despair for example in a party?

Yes invigorate and resilience make you a tank.

Bilbo said:

Can you have 3 bards all running different songs at the same time?  Inspire / Perseverance / Despair for example in a party?

Yes. However, the Discord songs are not direct party buffs, but rather monster debuffs/attacks. The whole party can take advantage of these monster debuffs/attacks though.

If you have all three 4x120 bards in a party you'll have:
2 party wide buffs from Provocation
2 party wide buffs from Peacemaking
2 monster debuffs/attacks from Discordance

The more party members, the higher the mana upkeep cost for Provocation/Peacemaking songs. Discord songs mana cost are independent of party size.

Yes I had to increase my mana regen to run 2 songs when not alone. That's why I concentrate on the two best for a party. One from each bard. Resilience allows the other bard to run 2 songs.

My suit right now is 150 Int  224 mana  31 MR  120 LRC  55 LMC  Working on building others.
100 med  100 Focus  100 Mage  (85/85/70)
120 music/peace/prove/discord REAL
All 70s suit

Bilbo said:

My suit right now is 150 Int  224 mana  31 MR  120 LRC  55 LMC  Working on building others.
100 med  100 Focus  100 Mage  (85/85/70)
120 music/peace/prove/discord REAL
All 70s suit

100 med + 150 INT  and 55 LMC (real overcapped LMC with bone/stone )  cannot work together. So you have wasted 100 points. + your INT points. 
You better try to use them with them otherwise. Or have only 40 LMC with leather/cloth or mage  armor. . 
Replacing MED withResist  will help you sing when mana-drained. Or increase your magery up to 120.

You have also more LRC than needed. So you have room to squeeze more skills / stats. 

Yup have to choose focus or med with suit that fits.  Med for medable suit.  Focus for non medable to get the 55LMC.

Pawain said:

Yup have to choose focus or med with suit that fits.  Med for medable suit.  Focus for non medable to get the 55LMC.

So I should go 100 focus only with the Studded non Mage suit. Anything else, what the other person said makes no sense.

Gwen said:

Bilbo said:

My suit right now is 150 Int  224 mana  31 MR  120 LRC  55 LMC  Working on building others.
100 med  100 Focus  100 Mage  (85/85/70)
120 music/peace/prove/discord REAL
All 70s suit

100 med + 150 INT  and 55 LMC (real overcapped LMC with bone/stone )  cannot work together. So you have wasted 100 points. + your INT points. 
You better try to use them with them otherwise. Or have only 40 LMC with leather/cloth or mage  armor. . 
Replacing MED withResist  will help you sing when mana-drained. Or increase your magery up to 120.

You have also more LRC than needed. So you have room to squeeze more skills / stats. 

I understand the Med so I will drop it but I have zero clue about the 150 Int, so how do I get 224 Mana without all the Int.  My LMC is with Studded.  The 120 LRC is from Legendary suit pieces so no they will not get replaced.

@Bilbo

I was confused by Gwen's comments as well, but I don't think that was her intent. Gwen's primary language doesn't seem to be English.

I believe what she meant is that since you're running 55LMC, which you can only get with non-medable gear, Meditation is severely restricted. Or use Meditation, but switch to medable gear with 40LMC. At least, I think that's what she meant.

As Pawain said:
Non-medable gear - Focus
Medable gear - Meditation or Meditation & Focus

Your bard template is going to be just as situational as a fighters. What songs are you running, how long do you want them to run, how many are in the party, etc. I have bards with Focus, I have bards with Meditation, I have a bard with both Focus and Meditation.

Good luck!

This forum needs 3 things 
1.an ignore function 
2. A built in translator 
3.like button 

Its pretty easy to get 150 Intel and 125 str on a mage.  You need no dex.

Most bone and studded come with mage armor on it if they are mystic of wizardry.

I prefer meditation on mages so I can meditate if needed.  But I rarely do and when I try it usually fails because I am in battle.

I'm a mystic/bard
Provo
Disco
Music
Med
Mystic 
Focus 
I dropped peace long ago if you are not running the mastery for it mass sleep so much better 
My suit all 70 of course 
40 lmc 
30 man regen 
Well over 150 int with 244 mana i can run both inspire and invigorate endlessly even with large parties i don't cast a lot so dependent on provo and RCs

McDougle said:

I'm a mystic/bard
Provo
Disco
Music
Med
Mystic 
Focus 
I dropped peace long ago if you are not running the mastery for it mass sleep so much better 
My suit all 70 of course 
40 lmc 
30 man regen 
Well over 150 int with 244 mana i can run both inspire and invigorate endlessly even with large parties i don't cast a lot so dependent on provo and RCs

TY I removed the Mage Armor from the Studded pieces because of the advice I got from another Bard to get the 55LMC.  I have fully medable suits with the high Int/Mana 40 LMC.  So which is better the 55LMC or the 40LMC, all are 70s suits with high MR.

I thought that the strength of a bard song was directly related the the number of bardic skills you have and at what skill level they are.  Wouldn't your Provo or Discord song be more powerful if you had 120 Peace also?

Well 55 lmc is better but meditation is far better than focus for mana regeneration i keep mystic as im stone form with mastery running i am very hard to kill and cleaning winds hands down the best healing skill i haven't noticed any different in buffs without having peace and i have had this build forever 

i tested with and without peace stayed the same 

Now i run provo mastery because it is what my guildies love i would run peace if i had my way because the regens are stupid good 

Yes he will not do the max on his songs but 80 or more % values are not bad for getting to have other skills.

You took off mage armor so you made that decision.  Too late to go back to mage armor.

Musicianship, Discordance, Peacemaking, and Provocation at real skill 120 provides the above buffs. 

The only bug is the Resilience does not give the poison resistance to party members, not sure about the duration reductions.

If you have a suit that gives you max values, Inspire does not help you. Unless a mage is receiving.
I run invigorate on my melee toons and both peace songs with my pets or archers.

Those 2 Peace songs work great on my archer bards against the normal Balrons.

Pawain said:

Yes he will not do the max on his songs but 80 or more % values are not bad for getting to have other skills.

You took off mage armor so you made that decision.  Too late to go back to mage armor.

I have another suit that is medable with 40LMC so would it be better with the 40LMC Med and Focus or the 55LMC with Focus only?

Here is a calculator to check.  I don't see any reason to have Med and focus when you can get one at max regen.  You can put on a skill that is more beneficial.

https://www.knuckleheads.dk/manaregen.php

TY @Pawain

So running a total support Bard with my Tamer besides the 120 Bard skills Magery/Med or Magery/Focus depending which suit I wear What other skills are support bards using, Weave or Mystic

ok Mystic uses focus or imbuing   Weaving uses Focus from the circle no extra skill.

TY @Pawain ; Much to think about but thinking along the line of Chiv/Mystic/Bard with Focus and the Studded suit.

Bilbo said:

TY @ Pawain  Much to think about but thinking along the line of Chiv/Mystic/Bard with Focus and the Studded suit.

Why chiv as well ?

McDougle said:

Bilbo said:

TY @ Pawain  Much to think about but thinking along the line of Chiv/Mystic/Bard with Focus and the Studded suit.

Why chiv as well ?

Just enough for travel

Bilbo said:

McDougle said:

Bilbo said:

TY @ Pawain  Much to think about but thinking along the line of Chiv/Mystic/Bard with Focus and the Studded suit.

Why chiv as well ?

Just enough for travel

Ugh yes it drives crazy how incomplete some schools of magic are because gargoyles needed to travel or rez each other my mystic/bard just uses recall scrolls 

McDougle said:

Bilbo said:

McDougle said:

Bilbo said:

TY @ Pawain  Much to think about but thinking along the line of Chiv/Mystic/Bard with Focus and the Studded suit.

Why chiv as well ?

Just enough for travel

Ugh yes it drives crazy how incomplete some schools of magic are because gargoyles needed to travel or rez each other my mystic/bard just uses recall scrolls 

I was also considering a Runic atlas to go to bank/home and just make others open a gate for me to travel with them.  Chiv is still questionable, doesnt take much just to travel.