There is only 1 Way to FIX Placing of IDOCS and this is it . . . .

When it comes time for a house to be placed . . . A program quickly recognize all players in the area and randomly selects on of those players and displays a gump to that player only that says "Do yuo want to place a house in this area?" select yes and only u can place the location.

And if a single person is paying for 50 accounts and brings a character from each one? That doesn't seem any more fair than the Abyss system.

I agree with you @Jepeth - but is anyone really paying for 50 acct subs?? $500+ a month just on UO subscriptions seems a little extreme...

Come on over to Chesapeake and visit the "Sovereign Nation of Mariah."

Jepeth said:

And if a single person is paying for 50 accounts and brings a character from each one? That doesn't seem any more fair than the Abyss system.

Yeah I really like the idea to lotto big houses on atl, but I think @Jepeth is right. You could bring 200 accounts to sign up and still break even (or make $ if keep/castle). Although yes IMO they are more entitled to higher odds if they pay subs, but a few top tier houses placers could probably end up with even more houses, which inflates prices. 

nope everyone will go click on keep and catsle so they dont really have very high % better chance...if you play loto you can win way better chance than presently

Jepeth said:

Come on over to Chesapeake and visit the "Sovereign Nation of Mariah."

LOLOLOLOL

I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.

Best way to fix it is replace the house with a plot of equal size an hour after the fall. The plot works like an auction - the highest bidder after 1 day gets it like an auction safe.  

Jepeth said:

And if a single person is paying for 50 accounts and brings a character from each one? That doesn't seem any more fair than the Abyss system.

1 per master Acct 

KHAN said:

I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.

Sure, let's throw away the baby with the fouled bathwater, how smart... 😂

There is one thing which I do not understand....

I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

Honestly, I do not understand it.

popps said:

There is one thing which I do not understand....

I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

Honestly, I do not understand it.

Because this would mean to radically rewrite TWO 10+ old Clients, and this, even if feasible at all, would be a HUGE work.

Ivenor said:

popps said:

There is one thing which I do not understand....

I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

Honestly, I do not understand it.

Because this would mean to radically rewrite TWO 10+ old Clients, and this, even if feasible at all, would be a HUGE work.

But it would solve all scripting issues for good, rather then dragging them over and over and over some more.... wouldn't it ?

Not for good - scripters are always writing new codes to work around game mechanics. They are called hackers for a reason - they hack into the system. It may stop them on one issue or for a while but they will find another way. This doesn't mean give up and give them free rein - but don't expect to get rid of them forever.

Marge said:

Not for good - scripters are always writing new codes to work around game mechanics. They are called hackers for a reason - they hack into the system. It may stop them on one issue or for a while but they will find another way. This doesn't mean give up and give them free rein - but don't expect to get rid of them forever.

^^^^^^^

Marge said:

Not for good - scripters are always writing new codes to work around game mechanics. They are called hackers for a reason - they hack into the system. It may stop them on one issue or for a while but they will find another way. This doesn't mean give up and give them free rein - but don't expect to get rid of them forever.

Well, perhaps, one way to stop scripting could be putting code into the Client, that would make it "self-shut" down, of course giving a warning of 2 minutes like for Server Maintainance, every time that the Client was to detect scripting going on....

As much as a script can be smart, I think that it still needs to be repeatitive... that is what a script does, repeat itself, right ?

Now, what the Client would need to do, is have an alghoritm that reviews characters' behaviour and see if there is "patterns" of behaviour in a given, sufficiently large, time....

At that point, when the Client "sees" that the pattern repeates itself (which is what a script does...), it would force the Client to shut down and the Account be further investgated by a Game Master for whatever action might be needed, depending on the case.

This is just one among many suggestions which I would imagine could be brought up... my point being, that I do not see what could can do looking for patching solutions to IDOCs, Gold farming and what not, without addressing for good what is at the root of all these issues, the ability for players to script in Ultima Online.....

As a person who has professionally written scripting software for testing production software for over 12 years removing the ability to script from the clients will have minimal affect. With the right scripting software you can simulate what an actual user does. With minimal effort I can write a script that mimics the slight hand movements a person makes when clicking in a 'I am not a robot' check box and defeat the detection code that looks for that movement to determine if a human or robot was clicking in the box.

I say we just stop allowing house placement of IDOCs for a few months. 

After a few months at some randomly decided day/time without notice turn it back on. Then you have all these house spots wide open and there will be tons of plots to choose from!

 😂 

popps said:

There is one thing which I do not understand....

I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

Honestly, I do not understand it.

I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!  

I have been arguing for years about this. I also do not understand how they do not combat this at source.   Imagine how good idocs would be if they were reverted to the system 10 years ago but without scripts!!!!!

People suggest a daily patch, a small patch that will knock out the script programs, and completely block the ability to gain access if unapproved.

I personnally think its a dev skill flaw.  I just wish they would admit that cant do it and employ someone who will. There is no shame in that.  Combat anyone that uses this game to earn an income, bankrupt them and return the power of the game to the players

keven2002 said:

I say we just stop allowing house placement of IDOCs for a few months. 

After a few months at some randomly decided day/time without notice turn it back on. Then you have all these house spots wide open and there will be tons of plots to choose from!

 😂 

And, for the months of the suspension, we will have something like a 50% (minimum) drop in Active & Paying Accounts, thing that will makes EA so happy, oh, so happy... 😂

@JackFlashUK - As I pointed out the scripters will still be able to script even if the built in scripting engine in the clients is removed. The scripting will be done using commands built into Windows itself to fool the clients into thinking a real human is in control. 

If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.

vortex said:

If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.

I desperately miss the idocs of old, the buzz you get when you have an 18x18 to yourself. I am just angry about what they have become and the appalling effort on the side of the DEV team, instead of tackling cheating they make idocs a joke

JackFlashUk said:

vortex said:

If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.

I desperately miss the idocs of old, the buzz you get when you have an 18x18 to yourself. I am just angry about what they have become and the appalling effort on the side of the DEV team, instead of tackling cheating they make idocs a joke

Me too... Used to search all around marking runes... Sometimes be there by myself... Got no storage anyways for more stuff and with the cheating I just gave up... They really gotta do something like punkbuster that they talked about Long ago or this not going away don't see much other choice.

KHAN said:

I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.

I think gameifying IDOCs so that everyone could participate was generally a good move, but I sympathize with the sentiments that IDOCs in today's context don't make a whole lot of sense and just feed players' greed for free stuff with no risk.

I've wondered why IDOCs are considered a karma-neutral action - even in Trammel. You're looting somebody's house. Perhaps one solution would be to make looting IDOCs a karma-negative action that opens you up for PVP regardless of the facet. Being able to kill one another makes it much harder for scripters.

Unfortunately, housing is too tightly woven into the business model to just make IDOC loot return to the owner, which I think is the most ethical solution.

JackFlashUk said:

vortex said:

If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.

I desperately miss the idocs of old, the buzz you get when you have an 18x18 to yourself. I am just angry about what they have become and the appalling effort on the side of the DEV team, instead of tackling cheating they make idocs a joke

loop said:

KHAN said:

I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.

I think gameifying IDOCs so that everyone could participate was generally a good move, but I sympathize with the sentiments that IDOCs in today's context don't make a whole lot of sense and just feed players' greed for free stuff with no risk.

I've wondered why IDOCs are considered a karma-neutral action - even in Trammel. You're looting somebody's house. Perhaps one solution would be to make looting IDOCs a karma-negative action that opens you up for PVP regardless of the facet. Being able to kill one another makes it much harder for scripters.

Unfortunately, housing is too tightly woven into the business model to just make IDOC loot return to the owner, which I think is the most ethical solution.

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

There is one thing which I do not understand....

I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

Honestly, I do not understand it.

I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!  

I have been arguing for years about this. I also do not understand how they do not combat this at source.   Imagine how good idocs would be if they were reverted to the system 10 years ago but without scripts!!!!!

People suggest a daily patch, a small patch that will knock out the script programs, and completely block the ability to gain access if unapproved.

I personnally think its a dev skill flaw.  I just wish they would admit that cant do it and employ someone who will. There is no shame in that.  Combat anyone that uses this game to earn an income, bankrupt them and return the power of the game to the players

I think we should ask ourselves why people script. On the one hand, it gives players an advantage over others, but we have to be honest with ourselves and admit that scripting makes the game a thousand times more fun. It's a blessing that Broadsword doesn't enforce its own rules because, if they did, they would certainly lose at least half of their player base.

Just about every action is predicated on something monotonous and Carpal-Tunnel-Syndrome-inducing: drag and drop this item, use this skill and target this monster, right click to close object handles, drag health bars... It's absurd, and the attempts to modernize these mechanics via the Enhanced Client, which provides less functionality than even the oldest scripting assistant, have failed.

As for a supposed "place a house script," what's really at play? Just using an item, selecting an option in the gump, and targeting the ground - on loop? 

you cant stop scripting at all. look into PVP on atlantic, look all the videos they post on discord, youtube and all, 90% of all players are running different clients, different programs, it is all there, available to anyone and it is 50% faster than the regular and old CC or EC. so yes, you CANT fix.
and just wait for the new shard to come, will be the same thing. so you can either cry about or you can adapt or join them.

I'm not a programmer, so this is a real question. How much $/time would a full rewrite of the code be? It seems if they started this years ago they'd be in a much better spot.

they are doing a new shard and maybe using new code and all, because they lost control of the 20 year old one, so many people worked for uo and changed the code, to the point that you fix 1 thing and you break 20 others, why do you think they were never able to fix the Bug List, how many years we been asking them to fix the bugs over and over and over, and it is the same answer always, "soon", so now they put the entire focus on the new shard, hoping that everyone play, so they can finally merge the shards into 5 or 6 maybe.    Hows that for conspiracy. 

Xris said:

I'm not a programmer, so this is a real question. How much $/time would a full rewrite of the code be? It seems if they started this years ago they'd be in a much better spot.

The answer is simple, IMO: more of whatever resources a 5/6 persons Team, even the best in the world, have. And this beside the fact that is still open to discussion if they are interested in doing it.

KeithofNonsense said:

you cant stop scripting at all. look into PVP on atlantic, look all the videos they post on discord, youtube and all, 90% of all players are running different clients, different programs, it is all there, available to anyone and it is 50% faster than the regular and old CC or EC. so yes, you CANT fix.
and just wait for the new shard to come, will be the same thing. so you can either cry about or you can adapt or join them.

So, if scripting is all over the place in PvP, I really do not undertand how anyone might find PvP of any appeal considering that, at least to my viewing, it then likely comes down to whomever is using the best script.... not to mention those players who do not want to use scripts or Third Party utilities to aid them in PvP who would be quite at a disadvantage versus those other players who, instead, might make use of these scripts and Third Party utilities.....

it then likely comes down to whomever is using the best script....

go watch the youtube videos, go to the pvp section on UO discord and you shall see, over 90% of the videos will show you, they are using new UO client and other programs that will do 90% automated. they have no trees on the floor, only stumps, no house walls, auto dismount, auto sync target, auto pots, auto teleport, auto everything and they are very proud of. it is all there to anyone to see, any PVP discord or any pvp guild discord, is open discussion and people sharing the scripts all over the place. so there is script everywhere and for everything, you cant just say, OH cancel Idocs, cancel houses, cancel Bods, cancel crafting or cancel PVP. so either you adapt and start leveling the game or stop crying about.

popps said:

There is one thing which I do not understand....

I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

Honestly, I do not understand it.

Yes fix the problem. Do not bandaid the results of the problem.

I bet shutting down pay sites would stop most scripting.

Pawain said:

popps said:

There is one thing which I do not understand....

I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

Honestly, I do not understand it.

Yes fix the problem. Do not bandaid the results of the problem.

I bet shutting down pay sites would stop most scripting.

And UO too, but that's irrelevant... 😂

Xris said:

I'm not a programmer, so this is a real question. How much $/time would a full rewrite of the code be? It seems if they started this years ago they'd be in a much better spot.

They did write a new client, 3D, KR and now EC and look how well they all went.

Bilbo said:

Xris said:

I'm not a programmer, so this is a real question. How much $/time would a full rewrite of the code be? It seems if they started this years ago they'd be in a much better spot.

They did write a new client, 3D, KR and now EC and look how well they all went.

On this I agree with you! Semel in anno... 😂

I don't PvP much these days but I think 90% is a pretty far stretch of scripting. I'm not foolish enough to say it doesn't exist but people say "scripting" simply because they don't know how something is done. Like some people might say someone is scripting because they can remove a curse while in a full run.... not knowing there is a macro for exactly that and you can press it on the run (don't need to double click an apple or cast the spell). 

Ask yourself this.... If you don't know how the game works and just accuse people of scripting do you really think they have to defend themselves to you and explain how they did what they did or do you think they are going to know they have an upper hand on you and keep it a secret to keep beating you?

keven2002 said:

I don't PvP much these days but I think 90% is a pretty far stretch of scripting. I'm not foolish enough to say it doesn't exist but people say "scripting" simply because they don't know how something is done. Like some people might say someone is scripting because they can remove a curse while in a full run.... not knowing there is a macro for exactly that and you can press it on the run (don't need to double click an apple or cast the spell). 

Ask yourself this.... If you don't know how the game works and just accuse people of scripting do you really think they have to defend themselves to you and explain how they did what they did or do you think they are going to know they have an upper hand on you and keep it a secret to keep beating you?

Well, the problem that I see is, that, to my understanding, there are scripts and cheats out there which really do give an edge in PvP...

Besides those more powerfull scripts/cheats, even the smaller ones, when chained together in a fight, can make a whole world of a difference to gain a hell of an adge, even against very skilled PvPers...

Stuff like healing scripts, or hacks which shorten obstacles like walls, trees and so forth, or that help towards tracking a target more likely even when not having the skill and stuff like that might, at first, not look like that big of a deal when taking each increased ability singledly, but, when several of these minor increased abilities, thanking to scripts/cheats are used in a fight, they can basically make it pointless, to my opinion, for a player not using them, to even think to want to PvP against fellow players using these scripts/cheats.

Especially, when the risk to bump into fellow players using these scripts/cheats might be significantly high, as I seem to understand it might be.

Personally, I think that it was a big mistake to disallow scripting at all. The ability to script almost anything in UO is actually a very neat feature. When they realized that it couldn't be stopped, they should have embraced it completely and developed with scripting in mind. Imagine the tools that would be available if they would have just went with it instead of pretending that it wasn't happening.

Stinky_Pete said:

Personally, I think that it was a big mistake to disallow scripting at all. The ability to script almost anything in UO is actually a very neat feature. When they realized that it couldn't be stopped, they should have embraced it completely and developed with scripting in mind. Imagine the tools that would be available if they would have just went with it instead of pretending that it wasn't happening.

They did it is called the EC and it would be used more if it weren't so damn fugly

This thread has gone far off topic.

Rorschach said:

This thread has gone far off topic.

Remind me what the topic was again?