Devs, to give thieves some love, why don't you make the ICE drops spawn in Dungeon Chests ?

Seriously, why don't you make the Drops "of Ice" be able to spawn in Dungeon Chests so that thieves can also have their way with the new content and Rewards ?

The drop rate could be higher as that from kills as to find a chest and open it up it takes longer then killing anything, and quite longer...

Just a thought.....

I think this would be nice.  I had more fun in Khaldun when I was using my thief.  Fighting stuff gets to be a grind after a while.

you will get revealed by the spawn all the time, so its not viable,  just yet another moaning post.  Don't you EVER get tired?   you did the same for deceit and you were ignored then as well

JackFlashUk said:

you will get revealed by the spawn all the time, so its not viable,  just yet another moaning post.  Don't you EVER get tired?   you did the same for deceit and you were ignored then as well

This is because the Paragons BROKE existing game mechanics that were meant to make it possible for players to hide and stealth, if they invested skills, race and Masteries into that.

It is ridicolous, to my opinion, that even an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.

This is so wrong !!

The ability of Paragons to reveal should not be a "flat out" one as it is, but it should work in a way that it respected what were existing mechanics and whereas, if a player invested in being an ELF, and into skills and Masteries all releated to hiding and stealthing, they should be able to KEEP remaining hidden and stealthing and not get revealed so ridicolously easy.

It looks like that, who knows why, the changes that we see all end up prompting players to get to play a Sampire, Dexer of Fighter and no other Template.

I cannot understand why.

It would be nice to understand why all these changes, one way or the other, all end up making Sampires, Dexers and Fighters the MOST playable template in Ultima Online.

@Kyronix , @Bleak , could you please kindly explain to us the rationale of this ?

Do we need to conclude that the one and only Template worth playing in Ultima Online is a Sampire, Dexer or Fighter ?

Only you need to conclude the only template worth playing is a sampire or dexer or fighter I use all my toons .. But I don't expect to kill things with my cook or thief

 😂 

“an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite 🙂

Kyronix said:

“an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite 🙂

That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

Thanks for the feedback!

These dynamic events are fantastic. Thank you. 

Kyronix said:

“an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite 🙂

That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

Thanks for the feedback!

popps's persistence finally paid off! Now you said stealing but not thief in general or lockpicking, so what you're adding is the ability to steal drops from mobs? 

Kyronix said:

“an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite 🙂

That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

Thanks for the feedback!

@Kyronix

Well, thanks for the heads up....

If you are planning to add support to Rogues in Dynamic ToT (picking Locks, Removing Traps, and looting Dungeon Chests, I would not personally call it stealing, more Treasure Hunting or a Rogue thing.... but I can see how to others, taking from a Dungeon chest which is not theirs could be very well seen as stealing....) which is truly a great thing, but PLEASE, do consider then some way to find mechanics to support Thieves/Rogues need to stay hidden and be able to stealth since, given the heavy load of skills that they need to carry for their Profession, they simply cannot be fighters and fight spawn, especially the Paragons.... their only defense is to STAY hidden and do their Chests' picking, traps removing and looting while staying in the hide....

Check it out....

- 120 Stealing
- 100 Snooping
- 100 Lockpicking
- 100 Detect Hidden
- 100 Remove Trap
- 100 Hiding
- 120 Stealthing

That's already 740 skil points there.... no room whatsoever to have any fighting abilities for a seriously invested Thief/Rogue. Hell, there is not even any room for Magery for a recall !!

If it needs be, make it necessary to have them all be REAL skill points by finally introducing Thieves' Masteries (can this be a suggestion ? https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/45491/#Comment_45491 ) so that it won't be possible to create hybrid Templates using skill items and, if necessary, make it also that such a Mastery to help keep a Thief/Rogue STAY hidden, will have to have ALL those skills in real points on their Templaye (yes, 720 skill points all REAL in Stealing, Snooping, Lockpicking, Detect Hidden, Remove Trap, Hiding and Stealthing) but please, permit to Thieves/Rogue to remain hidden and stealthing while doing their profession or, at the very least, if not from stealing, at least allow the staying hidden from picking Dungeon Chests, Removing their Traps and looting the chests with all related skills being maxed out and leaving the getting revealed, sometimes (not a 100% guaranteed reveal... the thief would still be totally defenseless if caught into fighting....) when stealing from someone is involved...

But please, do not force fighing on a Template which has hardly any chance to self defend, given how heavily the Template needs many Rogue related skills in order to fully function for that profession.... a thief's or Rogue's best defense is staying in the Shadow, unseen, and not in the plain out sun light....

Thanks.

Valis said:

Say it with me class.

___________________________________

Not. Every. Template. Is. For. Every. Event.

___________________________________

Stop whining about every event that happens and just play the damn game like literally every other player. I have a thief and you don't hear me complaining I can't use the character here.

Well, apparently....

@popps why don't you check Dungeon Ice on LS.  You will find all templates having fun killing stuff.

And if your tamer is not a fighter,  that is where your problem is.  We had every super slayer book drop during the two invasions.

Then. Build. A. Effing. Sampire. Or...stfu

popps said:

Well, apparently....

_______________________________________

Every. Event. Is. For. Sampires/Dexers/Fighters.

_______________________________________

They seem to always be the ones that shine, no matter what the Event might be. Just check Dungeon Ice, it is as it was with Dungeon Deceit, Fighters all over the place.

Valis said:

popps said:

Well, apparently....

_______________________________________

Every. Event. Is. For. Sampires/Dexers/Fighters.

_______________________________________

They seem to always be the ones that shine, no matter what the Event might be. Just check Dungeon Ice, it is as it was with Dungeon Deceit, Fighters all over the place.

I was waiting for your reply and as I suspected it would be, its simply moronic.

Not every event is for just that one style of gameplay. Look at the artisan festival, thats for crafters. Khaldun had things for thieves and such. So I am going to offer you some advice...

Get off the forums. Get on your tamer (which I see every single day in general chat just waiting for people to tell you when Krampus is up, etc) and GO. DO. THE EVENT.

Whine less. Play more. It's the same with you on every event.

(and this time don't yell at people in general chat for attacking monsters)

You need not to worry, I am about half way towards the Ice Spellbook after 2 days it started and so far got about 40 Ilshenar Statues...

I do not understand why people think that when I post something I necessarily post it about myself or something that I might need.

For example, I DID say that now, with all the concurrant content going on, I fear much that it will be difficult for lack of interested players crowding the Ice Dugeons alleys, that the Forest of the Dark The Guide Boss at the Ilshenar spawn might get killed and so that spawn hang up....

Which it means, no more killing the spawn to get Statues.

Since I happen to be trying to make a set, of course this concerns me, but I guess it might also concern other fellow players wanting those Statues.... and that is why I asked to the Developers to please make a change for these 10 more days were, if The Guide Boss is not killed withing 1 hour that it has spawned, the Spawn would nonetheless reset itself automatically thus giving spawn to players to kill to get their Statues.

If I need something for my specific gameplay I do not have a problem to say that and I do, when I feel it as necessary. Often though, I post about the game as a whole because I think that either something I see is wrong or, that a change might be beneficial to the game as a whole.

@popps let others complain for themselves.  Then we would actually see if anyone feels the same as you do.

You are the only one that is complaining about this stuff.  Everyone else is using their favorite template and having fun.  None of your proposed changes would benefit the game.

That's the way I see it.

Pawain said:

@ popps let others complain for themselves.  Then we would actually see if anyone feels the same as you do.

You are the only one that is complaining about this stuff.  Everyone else is using their favorite template and having fun.  None of your proposed changes would benefit the game.

That's the way I see it.

Are they REALLY using their "favorite" Template or are they perhaps, "just" perhaps, using the one template that brings them the most drops which happens to be, once again, a Sampire or a variation of ?

My argument is in favour of mechanics which would actually bring as many as possible templates on an equal footing.... THEN, truly, players could use the Template that they most enjoy to play and not the one that "works the best" for that given Event....

One thing is being efficient, an entire other is enjoying playing a given Template.

I do not see why players who enjoy playing a Sampire or variations of should also benefit with getting the highest efficiency while other players who enjoy playing other Templates, Tamers, Bards, Rogues, Spellcasters and so forth, should instead have to make a choice on whether to play the Template which they really enjoy playing OR the Template that "works the best" and is most efficient in getting drops.

That is totally unfair and detrimental towards the enjoyment of the game for those players, me thinks.

I would like to see players be really able to play the Template that they actualy do enjoy playing AND be also efficient in getting their drops when using that Template,

And not have to play other Templates even though they do not enjoy playing them as well only because they "work better"....

popps said:

Pawain said:

@ popps let others complain for themselves.  Then we would actually see if anyone feels the same as you do.

You are the only one that is complaining about this stuff.  Everyone else is using their favorite template and having fun.  None of your proposed changes would benefit the game.

That's the way I see it.

Are they REALLY using their "favorite" Template or are they perhaps, "just" perhaps, using the one template that brings them the most drops which happens to be, once again, a Sampire or a variation of ?

My argument is in favour of mechanics which would actually bring as many as possible templates on an equal footing.... THEN, truly, players could use the Template that they most enjoy to play and not the one that "works the best" for that given Event....

One thing is being efficient, an entire other is enjoying playing a given Template.

I do not see why players who enjoy playing a Sampire or variations of should also benefit with getting the highest efficiency while other players who enjoy playing other Templates, Tamers, Bards, Rogues, Spellcasters and so forth, should instead have to make a choice on whether to play the Template which they really enjoy playing OR the Template that "works the best" and is most efficient in getting drops.

That is totally unfair and detrimental towards the enjoyment of the game for those players, me thinks.

I would like to see players be really able to play the Template that they actualy do enjoy playing AND be also efficient in getting their drops when using that Template,

And not have to play other Templates even though they do not enjoy playing them as well only because they "work better"....

Obviously you do not read replies to you.  I already told you that players on LS are using tamer, archers, mages and whatever else they want to play.  You just do not look around or have any idea about the topics you make.

He is a troll that the mods have no control over. 

To tie threads together:

The devs gave an unknown thief some love and allowed them to steal our holiday presents. 🙁

do you read the replies?I see all kinds of templates except cools and crafters out there... Why you play a game that puzzles and frustrates you so much?

Pawain said:

To tie threads together:

The devs gave an unknown thief some love and allowed them to steal our holiday presents. 🙁

  I believe it was @Bilbo that said @popps was Mervyn undercover. It seems to me that this is not Mervyn undercover. Mervyn knows how to play sampires/dexers/fighters. And he even has the knowledge to test if something is working as it is intended to. Instead of asking about a quest, he would test it himself first.

Seth said:

This is so unfair... my million dollar sampire is destroyed by Paragons White Wrym and Ice Fiend. I cannot fight them without running off several times to heal. Died, lost insurance, worn off gear, and got nothing.

It is extremely unfair for thief or non-attack templates to get any rewards by hiding and stealing without losing anything. They don't even need any imbued gear to work.

Thief's have always been about riskvreward. Up until tram. Still gotta do the risk somehow. Including being revealed and dying.

@popps Thieving wouldn't work in Ice as it currently stands, the place is too crowded and the paragons would make it too unsafe for stealthers.  In Khaldun it worked, you could stealth to find hidden boxes and wait until the area around the box you wanted to open was relatively clear, or clear it for a short time before the area re-spawned. Spawn was much less dense.
AND for the second time will you PLEASE stop referring to all warriors as 'variations of a sampire'.  They are NOT all sampires.  I do not have any sampires, I have an archer and a warrior. Sampires have necromancy in their template.  Any warrior without necromancy is not a sampire, nor a variation of one!

RockStaR said:

Seth said:

This is so unfair... my million dollar sampire is destroyed by Paragons White Wrym and Ice Fiend. I cannot fight them without running off several times to heal. Died, lost insurance, worn off gear, and got nothing.

It is extremely unfair for thief or non-attack templates to get any rewards by hiding and stealing without losing anything. They don't even need any imbued gear to work.

Thief's have always been about riskvreward. Up until tram. Still gotta do the risk somehow. Including being revealed and dying.

Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.

From the news, something about thieves:

The present winter…

Each night, the thief dreamt of losing all his ill-gotten wealth. Sometimes, a great chasm would open to swallow his treasure horde. Other nights, he was running through the snow, arms filled with coins, jewelry, and magic weapons, only to have the wind snatch all of them away. Purlonio could not allow this to happen.

The thief had burgled a mage with a reputation for collecting powerful artifacts, hoping one of them could protect his treasure. Purlonio moved his stash to the frozen caves north of Wrong prison. It was far from the city’s bustle and avoided by people like him.

The thief decided to start with the smallest of the stolen baubles and work his way up. Picking up a silver locket, Purlonio waved it in the air. When nothing happened, the thief pried it open with a knife.

There came a great cold and terrifying roar from the locket, and the thief threw it across the cavern. Frost and snow billowed from the silver trinket, and Purlonio could see monstrous forms in the chaos. The terrified thief fled.

The locket was open, and the winter was free.

playing melee worrior is not painless in this ice event. you can't attack frost ooze and platinum drake if you use chivalry.  I'm having a hard time dodging them than killing mobs which made this event less enjoyable than the previous deceit event. 

Seth said:

Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.

From the news, something about thieves:

The present winter…

Each night, the thief dreamt of losing all his ill-gotten wealth. Sometimes, a great chasm would open to swallow his treasure horde. Other nights, he was running through the snow, arms filled with coins, jewelry, and magic weapons, only to have the wind snatch all of them away. Purlonio could not allow this to happen.

The thief had burgled a mage with a reputation for collecting powerful artifacts, hoping one of them could protect his treasure. Purlonio moved his stash to the frozen caves north of Wrong prison. It was far from the city’s bustle and avoided by people like him.

The thief decided to start with the smallest of the stolen baubles and work his way up. Picking up a silver locket, Purlonio waved it in the air. When nothing happened, the thief pried it open with a knife.

There came a great cold and terrifying roar from the locket, and the thief threw it across the cavern. Frost and snow billowed from the silver trinket, and Purlonio could see monstrous forms in the chaos. The terrified thief fled.

The locket was open, and the winter was free.

Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.

Do you know how long it would take for a Rogue to go to 100 dungeon chests, pick the locks, remove the traps, and how many deaths and investment of time would be necessary for all that ?

HOURS.....

In that same time, the same exact player with a Warrior, could get HUNDREDS of drops, not just 1....

Who, I need to wonder, would EVER want to spent that much time for a single drop when, with another Template, they could get a LOT more drops ?

The KEY to have players be able to play WHATEVER Template that they would like, is by giving them "moreless" the same drop rate in the same amount of playing time.... anything different WOULD NOT WORK, to my opinion, since players, that I noticed, then to most always maximize their drop rate...

TIME is the real asset here, passed time will never come back, unfortunately.

So, players tend to use whatever gets the fastest drops rate so as to use the least time possible.

Any mechanics not taking this into account would NOT WORK, to my opinion, because players would most always go to whatever Template "works the best" for maximizing drops in the least investment of time.

popps said:

Kyronix said:

“an ELF, with 100 Hiding, 120 Stealthing and 120 Ninjitsu and running a Ninjitsu Shadow Mastery would still get revealed by Paragons no matter what.”

Superman is always gonna have his kryptonite 🙂

That being said, obviously the schedule is pretty tight, but the top of my list for future enhancements to Dynamic ToTs is adding support stealing.  

Thanks for the feedback!

@ Kyronix

Well, thanks for the heads up....

If you are planning to add support to Rogues in Dynamic ToT (picking Locks, Removing Traps, and looting Dungeon Chests, I would not personally call it stealing, more Treasure Hunting or a Rogue thing.... but I can see how to others, taking from a Dungeon chest which is not theirs could be very well seen as stealing....) which is truly a great thing, but PLEASE, do consider then some way to find mechanics to support Thieves/Rogues need to stay hidden and be able to stealth since, given the heavy load of skills that they need to carry for their Profession, they simply cannot be fighters and fight spawn, especially the Paragons.... their only defense is to STAY hidden and do their Chests' picking, traps removing and looting while staying in the hide....

Check it out....

- 120 Stealing
- 100 Snooping
- 100 Lockpicking
- 100 Detect Hidden
- 100 Remove Trap
- 100 Hiding
- 120 Stealthing

That's already 740 skil points there.... no room whatsoever to have any fighting abilities for a seriously invested Thief/Rogue. Hell, there is not even any room for Magery for a recall !!

If it needs be, make it necessary to have them all be REAL skill points by finally introducing Thieves' Masteries (can this be a suggestion ? https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/45491/#Comment_45491 ) so that it won't be possible to create hybrid Templates using skill items and, if necessary, make it also that such a Mastery to help keep a Thief/Rogue STAY hidden, will have to have ALL those skills in real points on their Templaye (yes, 720 skill points all REAL in Stealing, Snooping, Lockpicking, Detect Hidden, Remove Trap, Hiding and Stealthing) but please, permit to Thieves/Rogue to remain hidden and stealthing while doing their profession or, at the very least, if not from stealing, at least allow the staying hidden from picking Dungeon Chests, Removing their Traps and looting the chests with all related skills being maxed out and leaving the getting revealed, sometimes (not a 100% guaranteed reveal... the thief would still be totally defenseless if caught into fighting....) when stealing from someone is involved...

But please, do not force fighing on a Template which has hardly any chance to self defend, given how heavily the Template needs many Rogue related skills in order to fully function for that profession.... a thief's or Rogue's best defense is staying in the Shadow, unseen, and not in the plain out sun light....

Thanks.

you make it seem like everytime a stealther gets revealed he's dead. Just run around a corner to break line of sight and hide.

popps said:

Seth said:

Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.

From the news, something about thieves:

The present winter…

Each night, the thief dreamt of losing all his ill-gotten wealth. Sometimes, a great chasm would open to swallow his treasure horde. Other nights, he was running through the snow, arms filled with coins, jewelry, and magic weapons, only to have the wind snatch all of them away. Purlonio could not allow this to happen.

The thief had burgled a mage with a reputation for collecting powerful artifacts, hoping one of them could protect his treasure. Purlonio moved his stash to the frozen caves north of Wrong prison. It was far from the city’s bustle and avoided by people like him.

The thief decided to start with the smallest of the stolen baubles and work his way up. Picking up a silver locket, Purlonio waved it in the air. When nothing happened, the thief pried it open with a knife.

There came a great cold and terrifying roar from the locket, and the thief threw it across the cavern. Frost and snow billowed from the silver trinket, and Purlonio could see monstrous forms in the chaos. The terrified thief fled.

The locket was open, and the winter was free.

Maybe someone should try the chests in Ice. After say 100 chests maybe can find some drops in there too.

Do you know how long it would take for a Rogue to go to 100 dungeon chests, pick the locks, remove the traps, and how many deaths and investment of time would be necessary for all that ?

HOURS.....

Better get started then. 

popps said:

The KEY to have players be able to play WHATEVER Template that they would like, is by giving them "moreless" the same drop rate in the same amount of playing time.... anything different WOULD NOT WORK, to my opinion, since players, that I noticed, then to most always maximize their drop rate...

Hmm, why didn't you ask for Power Scrolls, Mastery, and all the other 1000s of artifacts to be obtainable by ANY template we like to use? I would love my beggar to get a Cameo within one hour.

popps said:

Who, I need to wonder, would EVER want to spent that much time for a single drop when, with another Template, they could get a LOT more drops ?

Then why are you trying to do this?  

popps said:

Do you know how long it would take for a Rogue to go to 100 dungeon chests, pick the locks, remove the traps, and how many deaths and investment of time would be necessary for all that ?

HOURS.....

In that same time, the same exact player with a Warrior, could get HUNDREDS of drops, not just 1....

Pawain said:

popps said:

Who, I need to wonder, would EVER want to spent that much time for a single drop when, with another Template, they could get a LOT more drops ?

Then why are you trying to do this?  

No, I am talking about something different....

I do not want to see being used Templates which would take forever to get a drop as compared to a Warrior, for example, that can get a drop way, but waaaay much faster....

I would like to see something else, in order to see game mechanics to appeal players more to use not just Warriors for their "besting" drop rate but at least a variety or more Templates (for example Tamers, Bards, Rogues etc.).... which it is, to have drop rate times be more "equalized" in between the various Templates possible for players to use for that Event.

Only in this way, I am convinced, players would feel sufficiently free to really use whatever Template they enjoy to play and use and not the one that "works the best" because the Event mechanics happen to award that particular Template of the best and fastest drop rate among all various Templates possible for that Event.

Seth said:

popps said:

Do you know how long it would take for a Rogue to go to 100 dungeon chests, pick the locks, remove the traps, and how many deaths and investment of time would be necessary for all that ?

HOURS.....

In that same time, the same exact player with a Warrior, could get HUNDREDS of drops, not just 1....

What makes you think warriors are having a good time collecting the drops easily? Didn't we just feedback the paragons are really tough and sampires cannot leech life from them?

100 chests is too tough... so you mean you want to have a drop in every chest, or several drops per chest. Do you think that is fair to warriors, tamers and mages who die fighting paragons and hundreds of monsters just to get less than 5 drops an hour?

So you want an easier way for your preferred template to get the drops than other templates?

I am just saying, take what the "average" Warrior drop rate is in X playing time and make the mechanics for "other" Templates, be them Bards, Tamers, Rogues, whatever which are enabled to play that given Event for drops, be given the same "average" drop rate considering the different time to kill that Bards or Tamers might have as compared to Warriors and for Rogues to open up Dungeon Chests....

Average vs average.

Then, is a player is really good with their Warrior or with their Bard or Tamer or Rogue then can well get more drops in that X time, but on "average", all Templates intended to play a given Event should be given the same drop rate in the same X playing time, me thinks.

popps said:

Seth said:

popps said:

Do you know how long it would take for a Rogue to go to 100 dungeon chests, pick the locks, remove the traps, and how many deaths and investment of time would be necessary for all that ?

HOURS.....

In that same time, the same exact player with a Warrior, could get HUNDREDS of drops, not just 1....

What makes you think warriors are having a good time collecting the drops easily? Didn't we just feedback the paragons are really tough and sampires cannot leech life from them?

100 chests is too tough... so you mean you want to have a drop in every chest, or several drops per chest. Do you think that is fair to warriors, tamers and mages who die fighting paragons and hundreds of monsters just to get less than 5 drops an hour?

So you want an easier way for your preferred template to get the drops than other templates?

I am just saying, take what the "average" Warrior drop rate is in X playing time and make the mechanics for "other" Templates, be them Bards, Tamers, Rogues, whatever which are enabled to play that given Event for drops, be given the same "average" drop rate considering the different time to kill that Bards or Tamers might have as compared to Warriors and for Rogues to open up Dungeon Chests....

Average vs average.

Then, is a player is really good with their Warrior or with their Bard or Tamer or Rogue then can well get more drops in that X time, but on "average", all Templates intended to play a given Event should be given the same drop rate in the same X playing time, me thinks.

Ummm.. @popps

Excuse me??

Pretty sure they all have the same drop rate, some just kill faster than others. Drop rate is a very small percentage chance poops. You're now mixing up drop rate and killing time. Which you are too busy on here to get any killing done. Trolling looks bad on you poops. All templates have the same drop rate in  x playing time, you just have to kill as many. Have a good day poops.

popps:

I am just saying, take what the "average" Warrior drop rate is in X playing time and make the mechanics for "other" Templates, be them Bards, Tamers, Rogues, whatever which are enabled to play that given Event for drops, be given the same "average" drop rate considering the different time to kill that Bards or Tamers might have as compared to Warriors and for Rogues to open up Dungeon Chests....

Average vs average.

Then, is a player is really good with their Warrior or with their Bard or Tamer or Rogue then can well get more drops in that X time, but on "average", all Templates intended to play a given Event should be given the same drop rate in the same X playing time, me thinks.

Ok fair enough, let’s compare average to average. 

popps said:

The KEY to have players be able to play WHATEVER Template that they would like, is by giving them "moreless" the same drop rate in the same amount of playing time.... anything different WOULD NOT WORK, to my opinion, since players, that I noticed, then to most always maximize their drop rate...

Classic.  What if I want to play my mindblast mage,  I do not care if all the mobs have 80+ cold resists my mage is afraid of fire.

Then I want to get the same amount of drops as everyone else does with my camping/taste id/Arms lore/ forensics/ begging/ animal herder. 

This isn't fair if I I cant use what I want!

Pawain said:

popps said:

The KEY to have players be able to play WHATEVER Template that they would like, is by giving them "moreless" the same drop rate in the same amount of playing time.... anything different WOULD NOT WORK, to my opinion, since players, that I noticed, then to most always maximize their drop rate...

Classic.  What if I want to play my mindblast mage,  I do not care if all the mobs have 80+ cold resists my mage is afraid of fire.

Then I want to get the same amount of drops as everyone else does with my camping/taste id/Arms lore/ forensics/ begging/ animal herder. 

This isn't fair if I I cant use what I want!

you forgot Item ID, just sayin . . .

RockStaR said:

popps said:

Seth said:

popps said:

Do you know how long it would take for a Rogue to go to 100 dungeon chests, pick the locks, remove the traps, and how many deaths and investment of time would be necessary for all that ?

HOURS.....

In that same time, the same exact player with a Warrior, could get HUNDREDS of drops, not just 1....

What makes you think warriors are having a good time collecting the drops easily? Didn't we just feedback the paragons are really tough and sampires cannot leech life from them?

100 chests is too tough... so you mean you want to have a drop in every chest, or several drops per chest. Do you think that is fair to warriors, tamers and mages who die fighting paragons and hundreds of monsters just to get less than 5 drops an hour?

So you want an easier way for your preferred template to get the drops than other templates?

I am just saying, take what the "average" Warrior drop rate is in X playing time and make the mechanics for "other" Templates, be them Bards, Tamers, Rogues, whatever which are enabled to play that given Event for drops, be given the same "average" drop rate considering the different time to kill that Bards or Tamers might have as compared to Warriors and for Rogues to open up Dungeon Chests....

Average vs average.

Then, is a player is really good with their Warrior or with their Bard or Tamer or Rogue then can well get more drops in that X time, but on "average", all Templates intended to play a given Event should be given the same drop rate in the same X playing time, me thinks.

Ummm.. @ popps

Excuse me??

Pretty sure they all have the same drop rate, some just kill faster than others. Drop rate is a very small percentage chance poops. You're now mixing up drop rate and killing time. Which you are too busy on here to get any killing done. Trolling looks bad on you poops. All templates have the same drop rate in  x playing time, you just have to kill as many. Have a good day poops.

I must be unfortunate to explain myself well enough.... sorry about it...

The drop rate should NOT be the same because, as you said, the ability to "trigger" that drop is not the same among different Templates...

Let me explain myself better....

If the drop rate is only tied to a "kill", of course that those who kill faster will get more drops as compared to those who kill slower....

Now, if this was contained among players all playing the same Template, this would not be an issue because it would depend on players playing that same Template better and, thus, killing faster and thus getting more drops.

But when we address "different" Templates with a different ability and speed to kill, then it becomes clear that it is NOT possible, for different Templates, to tie the drop rate to a kill because then, this would create gross inequalities among players in their ability to get drops with different Templates.

And that is where I am saying that the drop rate should be "different" depending on the Template with the Designed mechanics having the goal to produce for players the SAME amount of drops in the same amount of time for different Templates.

Let me make an example to further better clarify myself.

Let us assume that, a player playing a Sampire can, on average get 10 kills a minute (1 every 6 seconds) or 600 in an hour of gameplay.

In that 1 hour of gameplay the Sampire gets, let's say, 10 drops.

So, on average, the drop rate would be like 1 drop every 60 kills.

Now, let's take a Bard.

The Bard, let's assume, that he can only get 1 kill per minute or, 60 kills in an hour of gameplay.

So, the efficiency of the Bard in killing a MoB is 1/10th that of a Sampire.

Now, "if" the drop rate was tied to the number of kills (1 every 60 kills), in 1 hour of gameplay, the Bard, killing only 60 MoBs in 1 hour playing time, would only get 1 drop in that hour...

Now, THIS is what I see it as wrong.

The common denominator, to my opinion, should NOT be how many drop per kill BUT, rather, the SAME (o moreless same) number of drops in the same amount of playing time to equalize the different Templates and, thus, give to players freedom of choice of what Template they might want to play with.

So, in my example, to make it possible, to my opinion, for players to be freely able to play with whatever template, the mechanics for drops should be so that, if a Sampire had a drop rate of 1 drop every 60 kills, the Bard, instead, should have 1 drop every 6 kills.

This way, in the same 1 hour of game play, they would both moreless get those 10 drops only, the Sampire would have to kill 600 times while the Bard 60 times.... but in the end, it would take them that same 1 hour playing time since to Bards killing MoBs takes more time as compared to Sampires.

I hope that this time I was better able to explain myself and my argument.

So you want to stand in the entry for an hour and have your rewards drop into your backpack at a given average rate.

Does not take a novel to write that.

Pawain said:

So you want to stand in the entry for an hour and have your rewards drop into your backpack at a given average rate.

Does not take a novel to write that.

for camping skill yes, i think this is what he’s referring to. 

Seth said:

popps:

I am just saying, take what the "average" Warrior drop rate is in X playing time and make the mechanics for "other" Templates, be them Bards, Tamers, Rogues, whatever which are enabled to play that given Event for drops, be given the same "average" drop rate considering the different time to kill that Bards or Tamers might have as compared to Warriors and for Rogues to open up Dungeon Chests....

Average vs average.

Then, is a player is really good with their Warrior or with their Bard or Tamer or Rogue then can well get more drops in that X time, but on "average", all Templates intended to play a given Event should be given the same drop rate in the same X playing time, me thinks.

Ok fair enough, let’s compare average to average. 

As an average warrior, I think I can get about 5 to 8 drops an hour depending on luck. Sorry I lost count how many paragons or monsters I have to kill.

So for your Rogue, how many chests can you pick in an hour? 

It depends on the environment and the mechanics involved.

Would Paragons or intense cold reveal the Rogue so that he/she would have to run away, not being able to self defend for lack of combat skills ?

Then this would greatly slow down the ability to open up chests thus greatly reducing the ability to loot them.

In such a case, the frequency to find drops in chests should be very high to compensate for that.

Also, what about the trap ?

Would having 100.0 Remove Trap make it possible to remove the trap and then open the chest while remaining hidden ?

Because, if the failure rate was to be high also at 100.0 and the failure had the trap go off revealing the Rogue and damaging him/her with spawn around that could then more easily kill him, this would farther slow down greatly the looting process...

Furthermore, "theoretically" having high Nijitsu, being an Elf, using the Shadow Mastery "should" make it possible to sustain more damage without getting revealed... would this work if a trap went off from failing to remove it and thus remain the Rogue hidden also from fails ?

This would also make a difference in the time that a Rogue could be able to open up dungeon chests and loot them....

So, it is extremely difficult to give you an answer without knowing what the related mechanics will be.

Pawain said:

popps said:

The KEY to have players be able to play WHATEVER Template that they would like, is by giving them "moreless" the same drop rate in the same amount of playing time.... anything different WOULD NOT WORK, to my opinion, since players, that I noticed, then to most always maximize their drop rate...

Classic.  What if I want to play my mindblast mage,  I do not care if all the mobs have 80+ cold resists my mage is afraid of fire.

Then I want to get the same amount of drops as everyone else does with my camping/taste id/Arms lore/ forensics/ begging/ animal herder. 

This isn't fair if I I cant use what I want!

For that matter, one could also ask to use a character with Begging and want drops from begging from Monsters inside a Dungeon....

I am not saying that any and all Templates should be able to equally get drops, whether using Camping, Begging or a Mage using Mind Blast.... or whatever else....

But at least, there should be, to my opinion, "some" flexibility given to players to "at least" be able to use a number of Templates, say Bards, Tamers, Rogues, Spellcasters and some others while still being able to get the same amount of drops that Warriors get, even if their killing rate or dungeon chests' openings was to be slower as that of the Warriors.

This, because, I am convinced that, as long as players won't be able to get by using other Templates moreless the same amount of drops in the same playing time as Warriors may get, it is difficult that most players might want to use a Template that is not "as efficient" as a Warrior is, in getting drops, even though they would enjoy playing another Template more then a Warrior....

We shouldn't let thief to get all the loves from devs!

Blacksmith / tailor / carpenter should have a chance to get a drop when they're salvaging loots from treasure of mobs. 

Artificer should have a chance to get a drop when they are unraveling loots from treasure of mobs. 

Detective should have a chance to get a drop when using forensic evaluation on treasure of mob's corpse.

Treasure hunter should have a chance to get a drop when doing the treasure maps dropping from treasure of mobs.

Fisher should have a chance to get a drop when fishing in the dungeon when the event is activated. 

Miner should have a chance to get a drop when mining in the dungeon or smelling the iron ore dropping from snow elemental when the event is activated. 

Aragorn said:

We shouldn't let thief to get all the loves from devs!

Blacksmith / tailor / carpenter should have a chance to get a drop when they're salvaging loots from treasure of mobs. 

Artificer should have a chance to get a drop when they are unraveling loots from treasure of mobs. 

Detective should have a chance to get a drop when using forensic evaluation on treasure of mob's corpse.

Treasure hunter should have a chance to get a drop when doing the treasure maps dropping from treasure of mobs.

Fisher should have a chance to get a drop when fishing in the dungeon when the event is activated. 

Miner should have a chance to get a drop when smelling the iron ore dropping from snow elemental when the event is activated. 

Reductio ad absurdum ?

No thanks.

As I said in my post here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/50784/#Comment_50784 , trying to make such an extreme argument to prove my point as not valid has no ground, to my opinion.

As of now, it is Warriors, and ONLY Warriors who are the most effective Template for drops.

I am NOT advocate for using any and all Templates to be able to get drops likewise BUT, at the very least, to have a good number of viable and feasible Templates then YES, by all means I think should be possible to make the Event setting more viable and varied, with players being freely able to play different Templates, because they would not suffer a loss in drops in doing that.

My point being, why should it always be Warriors when it can "also" be Tamers, Bards, Rogues, Spellcasters and some other Templates who could participate to these Dynamic ToT Events without necessarily wanting to bring into the argument also skills like Camping, Begging, Taste ID and what not to reduce the validity of the argument of wanting more Templates besides Warriors as viable at these Events ?

Warriors YES.  This is a an event where you kill stuff to get drops!

Do the content for the skills you have, Beggers get a month of drops from begging. Crafters get BOD rewards year round.

Do the things your skills were made for.

And any warrior template can get drops if you can kill the easy mobs there.  This is the 3rd time I have invited you to come to LS and look at all the templates having fun in Ice right now.

Ignorance is not a reason to ask for changes.

Pawain said:

Warriors YES.  This is a an event where you kill stuff to get drops!

Do the content for the skills you have, Beggers get a month of drops from begging. Crafters get BOD rewards year round.

Do the things your skills were made for.

And any warrior template can get drops if you can kill the easy mobs there.  This is the 3rd time I have invited you to come to LS and look at all the templates having fun in Ice right now.

Ignorance is not a reason to ask for changes.

I can understand that some players playing Warriors Templates enjoy the status quo and do not want it changed because their Template most always gets the best.... that does not mean though, that "other" Templates which "other" players happen to prefer and enjoy playing should not be made "equally" playeable (which, in my book means being capable of getting moreless the same number of drops in the same playing time as Warriors, "on average" do....).

Sure, a player who only had a Tamer to play or a Bard would still be playing it.... the point I am making is an entire others which it is, that most players who have various Templates to play, with these Dynamic Tot Events seem to most always pick the Warrior rather then other Templates to play the Event....

And why is that ?

Because, apparently, the Events' mechanics seem to favour them making Warriors the "most efficient" Template to be used (i.e. to get most drops in the same given time...) as compared to other ones.

And, to my viewing, this should not be if we wanted to really give to players the freedom to use the Template of their choice and which they enjoy, and not the one that "works the best"....

popps said:

Aragorn said:

We shouldn't let thief to get all the loves from devs!

Blacksmith / tailor / carpenter should have a chance to get a drop when they're salvaging loots from treasure of mobs. 

Artificer should have a chance to get a drop when they are unraveling loots from treasure of mobs. 

Detective should have a chance to get a drop when using forensic evaluation on treasure of mob's corpse.

Treasure hunter should have a chance to get a drop when doing the treasure maps dropping from treasure of mobs.

Fisher should have a chance to get a drop when fishing in the dungeon when the event is activated. 

Miner should have a chance to get a drop when smelling the iron ore dropping from snow elemental when the event is activated. 

Reductio ad absurdum ?

No thanks.

My point being, why should it always be Warriors when it can "also" be Tamers, Bards, Rogues, Spellcasters and some other Templates who could participate to these Dynamic ToT Events without necessarily wanting to bring into the argument also skills like Camping, Begging, Taste ID and what not to reduce the validity of the argument of wanting more Templates besides Warriors as viable at these Events ?

Tamers and mages are doing good if you are using the right area of damage pet / spells. 

Bards have issue with provo and devs are looking into it. 

Rogues are being added into the to-do list thanks to your persistent effort. 

I've proposed what it could be done for other templates and you're saying I'm too extreme. 

We've covered all scenarios what else you still want to complain? 

@Aragorn it's classic that Mr. Poops is saying that you're too extreme. 

Aragorn said:

We shouldn't let thief to get all the loves from devs!

Fisher should have a chance to get a drop when fishing in the dungeon when the event is activated. 

Garr Grimbeard approves of this message in fact he demands a drop and a hummer lobster with every cast !!

lol, I find the above posts quite entertaining and amusing, nice jokes for the weekend and stressful days. Finally there is hope I can Beg my way to whatever I want.... Legendary Begging and mastery should allow drops to poop from paragons in one hour's effort... 

One day the mods will just start insta locking threads that popps makes. Because they are all the goddamn same.

Locked by popular request