Gold should be "upped" on "Treasures of...." Monsters....

As everyone knows, the Paragons imply dieing quite commonly.

This means, that, due to insurance costs, the deaths tolls can add up quite fastly.

I am not sure about how much others' insurance cost with prized items and all that but, personally, each death cost me about 13k and they add up fast.

Besides the fact that the killing is too fast paced to try getting as many drops as possible and, consequentially, one does not gather much gold from the corpses, they do not have much to start with, even if one wanted to spend time looting them....

Most have about 100 gp, a few like 300 gp and only rarely some with 500 gp or so can be found.

To put together the much that one's own death cost in Deceit in insurance, means lots and lots of corpses to spend time to loot rather then focusing on kills to try get as many drops as possible.

So, it would be nice for the upcoming segments to see a significant upping of the gold that Monsters may have on their corpses thus helping more to "make it up" for one's own cost in insurance of death by having to only loot a few corpses and not need to have to waste too much time to check too many of them.

A lot of players do not use the Enhanced Client with the auto-loot thing (the Classic Client does not have such a thing...) and even that one in the Enhanced Client, takes time to sit there by the corpse, it is not an instant thing... so, if gold was upped, one could reduce the number of corpses to loot (and thus time to spend on that), and still come up with some gold to cover up deah insurance costs.

NOPE

Go around and loot corpses they laying all over with gold on them nobody loots

Disagree. As vortex said, there aren’t really many looting the corpses anyway, and the reward should be the “of the three” items anyway. The odd paragon chest is nice, but the gold given isn’t going to make a huge difference. 

go in atlantic fel deceit spawn no one collecting the gold after neira die on ground there is million gold decaying there all day long and the spawn duration is like10 minutes...the economy for gold is way out of control

OR go hunt elsewhere for gold. When I'm done with a deceit run I usually go to the Blood Dungeon and kill Blood eles for fame and karma, they give decent gold and you can get paragon chests as well with even more gold in them and they are easy to kill.

On Todays Episode of "Popps Useless Ideas"

You could also sell just one 'of the three' pieces to cover insurance cost. I've seen bone pieces sell for 10 mil or more.  And if you think you will really need that one piece to get that item -  again sell a bone piece for 10 mil that covers insurance AND the cost of buying a junky piece from someone for the 1.5 mil they are selling for.

I think we are pampered, insurance should not exist in the first place.

Marge got here first. Each piece sells for 1M or more each.
I've gone through a undertaker staff a half. So I've died a lot.

Pawain said:

Marge got here first. Each piece sells for 1M or more each.
I've gone through a undertaker staff a half. So I've died a lot.

lol ouch!

Seth said:

I think we are pampered, insurance should not exist in the first place.

First thing first, life and death is a key objective of the game, fight to stay alive and get a reward, die and you lose and be punished.

What is the point of playing when your character dies, the penalty cost is peanuts and you get to keep your gear.

Might as well play Standalone games where you can Save Game and Load Game. That would always be 100% free insurance.

What is the point of playing when your character dies, the penalty cost is peanuts and you get to keep your gear.

Well, not really peanutes when death robes start piling up...

At 13k per death, 10 deaths which are easily added up in a half hour or so, become 130k loss....

So, in a few hours of gameplay and several tens of deaths it can soon become millions lost in deaths....

I just thought that is would have been nice to recover this gold from looting corpses... but at 100 gp or even 300 gp on average on corpses one would need to spend half of the time killing, and half of the time looting the corpses thus getting then less drops....

Agree with Seth many stand alone games are much more rewarding to play.  Better stories and game play all around for many of them.  If UO really wants to survive, the team should take a longer look at what these offer

IMO gold from corpses should go directly to the bank. The other gold from chests, ground, reward etc is the only piles we should have to pick up.  That would pay for insurance.

ill say the opposite insurance should cost 10x more...people dont care to die because it s very cheap fees and dont loot corpes because you lose hunt time when doing it...faster you kill a new monster faster you get a drop who sells for 1.5 mil over and can have like 500-1000 deaths .... by the way do the math for a bless deed over 40 mil now...how many time you need to die to make it Worth it...and the answer is no multiple thousands deaths...

Agree would be better if gold went straight to the bank especially from mobs.  Often when it comes to picking up gold from kills the risk does not justify the reward.  Also agree payouts should be better from most run mill mid range monsters.  Most of the time killing them is not worth the effort.  Higher end monsters might have something you can sell but the rest have mostly junk and just the occasional good piece that sits on your vendor for a year or more even when underpriced.

Don't agree letting gold go straight to the bank. There are just too many gold in the economy already and we don't need another boost. 

As some others have recommended already, sell a piece of the drop and it should cover the insurance cost for the ENTIRE event already. 

I don't mind boosting the gold from paragons thought but you still need to loot it from corpse, this is not for insurance cost but to justify the time needed to kill those things especially for para rams and the stupid para sword. Most of the time I will just find a room to lock the sword in. It is created just to annoy you just like a fly in real world which will never go away.

I dont have enough gold in my economy.  I have many hungry pets that have yet to be fed.

It seems to me, that many veteran players might find that automatic gold deposit might be less of a burdon to the play time they are used to.  I would note that there are people that play just a couple hours a week, and enjoy the game play, a chance to go to the bank, to visit, to go to their house, and not needlessly be dedicated to the grind without being burdoned with gold weight.  I can see scripters using the auto gold deposit for just unlimited supply of gold.  Sorry do not like it.

I prefer a game where we do not base our changes on the speculation of what scripters can and can not do with the changes.  If they are scripting they can already pick up gold and take it to the bank with no effort. 

Pawain said:

I prefer a game where we do not base our changes on the speculation of what scripters can and can not do with the changes.  If they are scripting they can already pick up gold and take it to the bank with no effort. 

and that is ok.  That is what you believe, that is fine.  I just do not agree.  and that is fine.

Pawain said:

I dont have enough gold in my economy.  I have many hungry pets that have yet to be fed.

Sell a piece of the drop just to feed your pets in this case while you are on you way to your 6th or 7th or probably 10th piece of ssi epaulettes now as you've mentioned in another thread while complaining not having enough gold and want 300 gold to go straight to your bank. 

Probably you should also understand the idea of inflation. While everyone is getting more gold, you are not getting any richer and you'll be as poor as now who still can't feed your hungry pets. 

Aragorn said:

Pawain said:

I dont have enough gold in my economy.  I have many hungry pets that have yet to be fed.

Sell a piece of the drop just to feed your pets in this case while you are on you way to your 6th or 7th or probably 10th piece of ssi epaulettes now as you've mentioned in another thread while complaining not having enough gold and want 300 gold to go straight to your bank. 

Probably you should also understand the idea of inflation. While everyone is getting more gold, you are not getting any richer and you'll be as poor as now who still can't feed your hungry pets. 

We can loot gold now. Scripters can loot and bank gold.  How would allowing us to not have to loot make the scripters get more?  We are the ones leaving the gold in corpses not them.

Aragorn said:

Sell a piece of the drop just to feed your pets in this case while you are on you way to your 6th or 7th or probably 10th piece of ssi epaulettes now as you've mentioned in another thread while complaining not having enough gold and want 300 gold to go straight to your bank. 

I had my 5 SSI epaulets. Then someone offered to trade a Titan relic for one so now I have to replace that one and get a garg one for my thrower.  9 days to get 300 more pieces, I want some human and garg boots and another Kotl ring.  Extra gold would be nice,

Pawain said:

Aragorn said:

Pawain said:

I dont have enough gold in my economy.  I have many hungry pets that have yet to be fed.

Sell a piece of the drop just to feed your pets in this case while you are on you way to your 6th or 7th or probably 10th piece of ssi epaulettes now as you've mentioned in another thread while complaining not having enough gold and want 300 gold to go straight to your bank. 

Probably you should also understand the idea of inflation. While everyone is getting more gold, you are not getting any richer and you'll be as poor as now who still can't feed your hungry pets. 

We can loot gold now. Scripters can loot and bank gold.  How would allowing us to not have to loot make the scripters get more?  We are the ones leaving the gold in corpses not them.

Exactly, so you're making normal people now capable to get gold the way how scripters are getting gold. Everyone will get gold automatically, as if they are scripting for gold? And you don't think this will speed up inflation which is already very bad in UO? 

Aragorn said:

Don't agree letting gold go straight to the bank. There are just too many gold in the economy already and we don't need another boost. 

As some others have recommended already, sell a piece of the drop and it should cover the insurance cost for the ENTIRE event already. 

I don't mind boosting the gold from paragons thought but you still need to loot it from corpse, this is not for insurance cost but to justify the time needed to kill those things especially for para rams and the stupid para sword. Most of the time I will just find a room to lock the sword in. It is created just to annoy you just like a fly in real world which will never go away.

I do not mind looting from the corpses, manually, I already do it all the time...

My only problem is with the "amount" of gold that currently corpses have....

It is so miniscule (100 go or 300 gp, very rarely 500 gp), that I have to spend time to manually loot corpses TONS of times to cover up 1 death that cost me 13,000 gp in insurance....

If we consider an average of 200 gp per corpse (the 500 gp is so rare to come by that it makes no sense to consider it), to make it up for 1 single death cost of insurance I need to manually loot, and thus spend precious time that I could be killing more stuff, instead, for more drops, some 65 corpses....

That is a whole lot of time guys, to manually stand still, open up a corpse and drag gold from that corpse for 65 corpses.... and that is only for 1 death !!

As we all now, deaths with Paragons in Deceit easily pile up, so, those 65 manual lootings, easily become hundreds, thousands to try make it up for the insurance cost...

One can easily see how many kills a player might be missing out if they have to stop by and manually loot gold from so many corpses to make it up for the insurance costs.

If gold was higher on corpses, significantly higher, one could at least cut down that manual looting for gold to 10, 15 corpses at most to make it up for 1 death.

they don't drop a lot of gold, but they do drop the purple artifact which you can sell for a million of gold. With the amount of time looting 65 corpses, go kill more mobs and you should be able to get 1 drop, which is enough for the insurance cost of the entire event, and not just 1 or 2 deaths.

Marge said:

You could also sell just one 'of the three' pieces to cover insurance cost. I've seen bone pieces sell for 10 mil or more.  And if you think you will really need that one piece to get that item -  again sell a bone piece for 10 mil that covers insurance AND the cost of buying a junky piece from someone for the 1.5 mil they are selling for.

@Marge

Out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why most players are after the Bone pieces and there is not much interest for the other types ?

People simply like collecting bone armor sets to display. No real rhyme or reason, they just like the look of bone armor. There are also people that like collecting all possible armor sets in the new colors. There is a guy on Chessy trying to buy his last few pieces of female armor pieces for 15 mil each. It just depends on the personal preference of the individual collector and what they are still missing to complete their sets.

Marge said:

People simply like collecting bone armor sets to display. No real rhyme or reason, they just like the look of bone armor. There are also people that like collecting all possible armor sets in the new colors. There is a guy on Chessy trying to buy his last few pieces of female armor pieces for 15 mil each. It just depends on the personal preference of the individual collector and what they are still missing to complete their sets.

Bone and Plate seem to be the ones sought after. 

My rsi would definitely appreciate a change in the way gold is looted.

That being said I can live with the current system (which means less gold in my pocket) but scripters and those illegally inflating the economy should be eradicated, since they must be one of the main reasons we have this problem with gold in the first place.

I'm all for gold going directly into my currency account, it would be awesome.

popps said:

Seth said:

I think we are pampered, insurance should not exist in the first place.

First thing first, life and death is a key objective of the game, fight to stay alive and get a reward, die and you lose and be punished.

What is the point of playing when your character dies, the penalty cost is peanuts and you get to keep your gear.

Might as well play Standalone games where you can Save Game and Load Game. That would always be 100% free insurance.

What is the point of playing when your character dies, the penalty cost is peanuts and you get to keep your gear.

Well, not really peanutes when death robes start piling up...

At 13k per death, 10 deaths which are easily added up in a half hour or so, become 130k loss....

So, in a few hours of gameplay and several tens of deaths it can soon become millions lost in deaths....

I just thought that is would have been nice to recover this gold from looting corpses... but at 100 gp or even 300 gp on average on corpses one would need to spend half of the time killing, and half of the time looting the corpses thus getting then less drops....

Maybe get better at the game so you aren’t dying every 3 minutes (20 deaths per hour in your example) in a 13k insurance suit...

 😂 

drop rate for bone helmet is very low then bone leggings it seems. 

Yeah as what Merus said, need avoid getting killed. If the character dies more than twice within a hunt, start asking what you did wrong. 

Last night, my "uber" powerful sampire died 3 times during his luck power hour. I didn't take each death lightly and always review back - what mistakes did I make? 

Spend more time actually getting items in an event than posting about it, sell one for 100 to 200 mil and never worry about insurance again.

Seth said:

Yeah as what Merus said, need avoid getting killed. If the character dies more than twice within a hunt, start asking what you did wrong. 

Last night, my "uber" powerful sampire died 3 times during his luck power hour. I didn't take each death lightly and always review back - what mistakes did I make? 

Well, my problem hardly has a solution....

I am running, as a Tamer, high Luck suit which, as everyone knows, takes out of me control about the resistances.... I have to go with what I get on the Luck artifact pieces that I am wearing in order to try maximize on Luck.

Furthermore, to try avoid the Paragons because if I die then my pet most likely also died shortly afterwards, I have to run Protection which, as we all know, further reduced my resistance.

Yes, I do use bless and other spells to try buff up my stats and also run invisibility all the time (hence protection) but the problem is, the Paragons who reveal all the time, retarget all the time, are damn too fast and hit damn too fast.

If they at least where to retarget less, it would be less of an issue, but their retargeting from the pet to the Tamer is truly excessive and should be seriously toned down, me thinks.

But, since most people are doing this Event with Dexers or Ranged Fighters, they do not care about the retargeting since they are ready to tackle these Paragons themselves, not through a pet like Tamers do so, the players affected by this constant retargeting from the pet to the Tamer are not enough to get the Developers tone this down, unfortunately....

Could I do something different to die less ?

I am not sure.

I cannot improve my resistances unless I want to give up with a good chunk of Luck on my suit, I cannot do without Protection (I tried, but it went worse), I could perhaps get a 4 slots pet and ride a mount to run away faster (although the speed of Paragons would still catch up with me) but then, I would have a pet that is less capable to stand up with the Spawn and, as we all know, an area can look apparently calm and, all of a sudden, you get a ton of spawn pop up with also Paragons in it...

A 4 slots pet would not be able to withstand these sudden burst of spawn and would die all the time...

So, frankly, I thought about it, but could not come up with a solution to reduce my death rate and so, I am just living with it.... only, it is taking a toll on my bank account in terms of insurance... each day that goes by I have to spend hundreds of thousands of gold points in insurance, since the Event started I already spent like a few millions in insurance I think...

If I could at least make some back with improved gold loot from the corpses, tht would help a little....

Dieing so often is already slowing me down as the whole process of getting resurrected and recover my stuff (sometimes with a whole lot of nasty spawn around...) takes much time, as we all know, so, having to also suffer insurance loss without being able to recover the gold I have to spend for my deaths from the corpses, looks to me too much...

Here are some tips and comments, popps:

1. Already so much gold to be had in deceit event.  Spectral armor gold is just left laying all over the ground.  Switch to EC and use a scavenger macro to pickup as you walk by.  (I disagree with bumping the gold per kill).
2. For insurance purposes, remove anything with "prized" from your suit and inventory, replace it with something not-prized for usage during the event.
3. Remove 1 luck armor piece and replace it with a legendary armor piece that has 18+ in all resists.  Enhance the item using forged tool to further boost the resists (may work best for pieces made with metal).  Or consider the bracelet of primal consumption (20 in all resists + luck), it seems made for usage with luck suits.
4. Get a hephaestus shield if you are still short physical resist.  It counteracts the physical resist drop from protection , and gives other benefits.  On the other hand, if you are using studded/leather luck pieces, if you enhance for +40 luck, your physical resist should already be way off the chart.
5. If you have 100-120 magery, use the balakai staff for defense purposes if a paragon is on you.
6. Don't run from paragons, you need to stand your ground (or recall out), else you just take damage while on the run.
7. Deal offensive damage using magery, spellweaving, etc while the pet tanks the paragon.
8. Many pets can easily tank paragons as 3 or 4 slot.  For instance, take a triton with close to 700hp, and don't touch its strength...  Just bump the resists and regens, keep it at 3 or 4 slot.  Make sure you get the parry to 100 (or more), get resist to 100 too.

ForeverFun said:

Here are some tips and comments, popps:

1. Already so much gold to be had in deceit event.  Spectral armor gold is just left laying all over the ground.  Switch to EC and use a scavenger macro to pickup as you walk by.  (I disagree with bumping the gold per kill).
2. For insurance purposes, remove anything with "prized" from your suit and inventory, replace it with something not-prized for usage during the event.
3. Remove 1 luck armor piece and replace it with a legendary armor piece that has 18+ in all resists.  Enhance the item using forged tool to further boost the resists (may work best for pieces made with metal).  Or consider the bracelet of primal consumption (20 in all resists + luck), it seems made for usage with luck suits.
4. Get a hephaestus shield if you are still short physical resist.  It counteracts the physical resist drop from protection , and gives other benefits.  On the other hand, if you are using studded/leather luck pieces, if you enhance for +40 luck, your physical resist should already be way off the chart.
5. If you have 100-120 magery, use the balakai staff for defense purposes if a paragon is on you.
6. Don't run from paragons, you need to stand your ground (or recall out), else you just take damage while on the run.
7. Deal offensive damage using magery, spellweaving, etc while the pet tanks the paragon.
8. Many pets can easily tank paragons as 3 or 4 slot.  For instance, take a triton with close to 700hp, and don't touch its strength...  Just bump the resists and regens, keep it at 3 or 4 slot.  Make sure you get the parry to 100 (or more), get resist to 100 too.

Thanks for the heads up...

# 1 , I do gather the spectral gold but, at moreless 300 gp a pile, it is hard to make it up for 13k per death.. I do not use prized now but, I do have additional stuff in my backpack that I want to bring along (can become handy at times) and do not want to die and that adds to the total cost for insurance.

Unfortunately, I just hate the looks of the Enhanced Client, I know it is much better in many ways, I tried to migrate to it many times but I just cannot stand the Graphics... it is something which I just cannot force on myself to accept, I tried many times as I do know how better the Enhanced Client is with Macros, Targeting and all that, but the Graphics makes me want to throw up, unfortunately...

# 3 I have 3 pieces in my suit which have lower Luck (about 130 Luck each) precisely to make it up a little with resistances but that is not enough, unfortunately, after Protection I end up with Physical around 50 which certainly does not help.... I know that out there there are Legendaries with Luck on and great Resistances, but they are simply way too much expensive for me to afford them...
I prefer not to wear non medable armor since I need Meditation as high as I can have in order to cast Heals on my pet. Paragons do not make Veterinary a viable healing method, unfortunately...
I use the Clean Up Luck Ring+Bracelet for the bonus Luck they give. I think with the bracelet of Primal Consumption (which is quite expensive, by the way...) I would end up gaining something in resists but losing in Luck.

# 4 Had not thought of the Hephaestus shield, I may have one somewhere, will try see if using it helps me out dieing less. Thanks for the tip.

# 5 I prefer to use the +50 SDI Spellbook from the invasions as it gets my AoE spells stronger and, thus, help my pet doing the fighting.... The Balakai (do not haeve 1, would have to but it)  would help against Paragons, that is for sure, but I would lose 50 SDI and in the end I do not know what is better, whether I die more without the Balakai or my pet dies more without my help with AoE spells...

I guess, I could do both (if I could buy a Balakai) with a quick Macro to unequip one and equip the other "on the fly".... anyone has a good suggestion for 2 Classic Client Macros to get this done "fast" ? Usually Paragons take nothing to target... and there does is delay in between unequipping and equipping so, in the end, I am not sure whether I could beat a paragon in time before it eats me to unequip one and equip the other....

# 6 What I usually do, is inviso, but after a split second I get revealed again, so I inviso again and move a few tiles away... most times, though, it does not work. They just retarget on me too much and too often. I seriously think that this retargeting should be toned down.

This is the # 1 prime cause for getting me dead.... I am on foot (pet is 5 slots) and cannot run away fast enough, a Paragon always outruns me, and often a hit or 2 from them (and they hit fast) kills me. Often, I get killed before I can cast inviso... unfortunately, with Protection on, my Faster Casting is 0 and they get to me and hit me faster as I can cast invisibility on myself...

They are too fast and hit too hard.... at least, they could be made to retarget less....

# 7 Yeah, that is what I always do. The issue though, is the damn retargeting from the Paragons which is way too frequent... it should really be toned down, me thinks.

# 8 That is what I started with, at the beginning of the Event, a Triton at 4 slots and me mounted. The problem is, that the Pet took too much to kill and would often get overwhelmed by the Spawn or additional one popping up in the middle of a fight. So, I moved to another pet that delivers more damage and kills faster but, in order to be higher DPS, it has to be 5 slots and that forces me to be on foot with all of the consequences of that from Paragons being too fast....

I guess that I could change Race to a Gargoyle and go flying but I do not have a Race change token and am not sure that I would want to make my Tamer a Gargoyle in the first place.

Use  the terain when you can. There are ledges and stair walls you can teleport on to that will allow you to heal your pet yet be out of melee reach of the paragon. Jump up and invis to break targeting. It's a lot easier to heal through a paragon's attack if you only have casting to worry about.

Petra_Fyde said:

Use  the terain when you can. There are ledges and stair walls you can teleport on to that will allow you to heal your pet yet be out of melee reach of the paragon. Jump up and invis to break targeting. It's a lot easier to heal through a paragon's attack if you only have casting to worry about.

Yes, some places do have "you can't see that" even if they are only a couple of tiles away, so I try to take advantage of that, but they are not too many, unfortunately... most places remain within fast and easy reach of Paragons...

I do am convinced that their re-targeting shoud be toned down... especially, since it only affects Tamers, Dexers and Ranged Fighters who need to tackle them 1 on 1 anyways, are not affected by this much, not as much as Tamers, though... I think that Paragons loose their aggro from pets too fast and too often, to then retarget the Tamer...

It should really be toned down quite some, me thinks...

Just skip the event since your not taking anyone's advice here...I see lots of tamers doing well in there...

@popps

I read the earlier long post, but not the latter ones. Some advise for tamer mage in this event.

As I did the tamer too:
1) Run protection at all times, see paragon attack esp. Poison Ele, Lich Lord, recall off. Continue elsewhere.

2) If others are around and get targeted, then u can stay and help but stay in safe location. If dangered, recall off.

Above is why you need protection. 

3) Do not need 2480 luck or higher.

- Out of luck hour, configure about 1000 luck without compromising too much resist and sdi.
- During luck hour (statue), wear your best suit with max sdi and resist for best protection and sdi damage. 

Seth said:

@ popps

3) Do not need 2480 luck or higher.

- Out of luck hour, configure about 1000 luck without compromising too much resist and sdi.
- During luck hour (statue), wear your best suit with max sdi and resist for best protection and sdi damage. 

Thanks for the advice.

A Question about Luck....

I have heard a lot of controversial discussions about Luck, pretty much all say that "some" Luck is good to have BUT, when it comes to "how much" Luck, there comes the controversies...

Some actually say that too high Luck backfires and is "worse" then mid-range Luck, some think instead that one should run as much Luck as possible...

It is quite confusing with all of these contradictory informations about how much Luck is really worth having and whether there is a limit of worn Luck past which, any additional Luck does no particular extra good...

Anyone knows more about how worn Luck actually works in Ultima Online ?

As mentioned by another player, I think if you can do about 800 - 1200 should be fine, without becoming too weak or defenseless.

The warriors and sampires that you were complaining about, they cannot wear luck suit except for Minax sandals and Blackthorn robe. A 10-year account with these 2 items + luck statue, is at max 990 luck, has good drop rate during the luck hour. 

I have another sampire on an 18-year account, but it does not seem to give a better drop rate. 

While warriors can whirlwind and kill the weaker mobs very quickly, they are also slow to kill paragons. Normally I would skip the Spec Armor and Ram paragons - recall off and do other areas or trap them in a room and recall off.  For mages, you can recall off safely without getting interrupted. 

vortex said:

Go around and loot corpses they laying all over with gold on them nobody loots

That is a good idea and is what I do.  When I'm done with the run I take five minutes and go around and gather up some gold.  Doesn't take long to where I have more than I can carry and more than pays for the insurance.

I find treasure chests all the time on paragons because no one loots.

I always check the paras too...sometimes get a useful map from the chest and decent gold 

popps said:

I do am convinced that their re-targeting shoud be toned down... especially, since it only affects Tamers, Dexers and Ranged Fighters who need to tackle them 1 on 1 anyways, are not affected by this much, not as much as Tamers, though... I think that Paragons loose their aggro from pets too fast and too often, to then retarget the Tamer...

It should really be toned down quite some, me thinks...

Couple of points ...

1. mage tamer can rack up far more arty drops than any other type of character, with far few deaths, and less down time on death (gift of life?).

2. I would say the opposite regarding re-targeting.  The monster AI is very weak, if you consider many of these monsters have far more INT than the player.  Having something with 500+ INT just stand there ignoring sources of grief is silly.  Advanced spell casting monsters should be using a bigger mix of AOE spells themselves.  Think about the invasions -- stratos was about the only boss that was regularly killing players.

INT aside, just think about what a bear would do in the wild if faced by (and threatened by) multiple humans.

ForeverFun said:

popps said:

I do am convinced that their re-targeting shoud be toned down... especially, since it only affects Tamers, Dexers and Ranged Fighters who need to tackle them 1 on 1 anyways, are not affected by this much, not as much as Tamers, though... I think that Paragons loose their aggro from pets too fast and too often, to then retarget the Tamer...

It should really be toned down quite some, me thinks...

Couple of points ...

1. mage tamer can rack up far more arty drops than any other type of character, with far few deaths, and less down time on death (gift of life?).

2. I would say the opposite regarding re-targeting.  The monster AI is very weak, if you consider many of these monsters have far more INT than the player.  Having something with 500+ INT just stand there ignoring sources of grief is silly.  Advanced spell casting monsters should be using a bigger mix of AOE spells themselves.  Think about the invasions -- stratos was about the only boss that was regularly killing players.

INT aside, just think about what a bear would do in the wild if faced by (and threatened by) multiple humans.

I am not sure whether your Deceit Event is the same as mine but, simply from the number of Fighters coming and going in Deceit, it is quite easily possible to tell how Dexers and Ranged Archers (not so many Throwers...) are "THE" one Template who gets the most drops...

For 1 Tamer that I see, at any given time in Deceit, I see at least some 5 or 6 Fighters... mostly Dexers, but also Archers.

So, I really do not think that a Mage Tamer is what is getting the most drops...

As in regards to the 2nd point, the "source of grief" of a Monster is the Pet attacking them, not the Tamer staying well away... even if the Tamer dies, the pet keeps fighting...

So, the # 1 priority for the Monster is to get rid of the pet attacking them.... 

And, infact, retargeting often hurts the Monster when other players run by.... I have had several cases where I had died, and my pet was also about to die too, but then other players run by, the Paragon retargeted onto them thus no longer hitting my pet who could therefore heal back on its own (I was dead and could not heal it) and keep hitting the Paragon but, now, without being hit back.

And the Paragon would die, because of its retargeting... kinda stupid, right ?

The Paragon should have stayed on the pet until it was dead and THEN, change target to anything in the vicinity....

popps said:

ForeverFun said:

popps said:

I do am convinced that their re-targeting shoud be toned down... especially, since it only affects Tamers, Dexers and Ranged Fighters who need to tackle them 1 on 1 anyways, are not affected by this much, not as much as Tamers, though... I think that Paragons loose their aggro from pets too fast and too often, to then retarget the Tamer...

It should really be toned down quite some, me thinks...

Couple of points ...

1. mage tamer can rack up far more arty drops than any other type of character, with far few deaths, and less down time on death (gift of life?).

2. I would say the opposite regarding re-targeting.  The monster AI is very weak, if you consider many of these monsters have far more INT than the player.  Having something with 500+ INT just stand there ignoring sources of grief is silly.  Advanced spell casting monsters should be using a bigger mix of AOE spells themselves.  Think about the invasions -- stratos was about the only boss that was regularly killing players.

INT aside, just think about what a bear would do in the wild if faced by (and threatened by) multiple humans.

I am not sure whether your Deceit Event is the same as mine but, simply from the number of Fighters coming and going in Deceit, it is quite easily possible to tell how Dexers and Ranged Archers (not so many Throwers...) are "THE" one Template who gets the most drops...

For 1 Tamer that I see, at any given time in Deceit, I see at least some 5 or 6 Fighters... mostly Dexers, but also Archers.

So, I really do not think that a Mage Tamer is what is getting the most drops...

As in regards to the 2nd point, the "source of grief" of a Monster is the Pet attacking them, not the Tamer staying well away... even if the Tamer dies, the pet keeps fighting...

So, the # 1 priority for the Monster is to get rid of the pet attacking them.... 

And, infact, retargeting often hurts the Monster when other players run by.... I have had several cases where I had died, and my pet was also about to die too, but then other players run by, the Paragon retargeted onto them thus no longer hitting my pet who could therefore heal back on its own (I was dead and could not heal it) and keep hitting the Paragon but, now, without being hit back.

And the Paragon would die, because of its retargeting... kinda stupid, right ?

The Paragon should have stayed on the pet until it was dead and THEN, change target to anything in the vicinity....

Pops, Paragons have always agro'd to  movement.  Go to Ilshenar anywhere and find paragons.  I used to do stealth/tamer on paragons.  Once you get close to the paragon, do not move.  You can heal your pet.  Unless the paragon has wither or aoe spells, you are ok.  But again, paragons have always changed targets to moving targets.

@popps I gave you a step by step guide in your first deceit complaint thread on how to put your pet on a paragon and how to keep the paragon off your tamer.  You refuse to listen to advice so you can live in a world of not understanding how UO works.

1. Invis
2. Cast and use Gheal
3. Cast invis
5. Take two steps away from Mob and activate invis.

Repeat as needed until you are 4 steps away from the mob and then the mob will only retarget the tamer if the mob invises or someone runs by.

At that point you can run consume and GoR to heal your pet if needed.

popps said:

ForeverFun said:

popps said:

I do am convinced that their re-targeting shoud be toned down... especially, since it only affects Tamers, Dexers and Ranged Fighters who need to tackle them 1 on 1 anyways, are not affected by this much, not as much as Tamers, though... I think that Paragons loose their aggro from pets too fast and too often, to then retarget the Tamer...

It should really be toned down quite some, me thinks...

Couple of points ...

1. mage tamer can rack up far more arty drops than any other type of character, with far few deaths, and less down time on death (gift of life?).

2. I would say the opposite regarding re-targeting.  The monster AI is very weak, if you consider many of these monsters have far more INT than the player.  Having something with 500+ INT just stand there ignoring sources of grief is silly.  Advanced spell casting monsters should be using a bigger mix of AOE spells themselves.  Think about the invasions -- stratos was about the only boss that was regularly killing players.

INT aside, just think about what a bear would do in the wild if faced by (and threatened by) multiple humans.

I am not sure whether your Deceit Event is the same as mine but, simply from the number of Fighters coming and going in Deceit, it is quite easily possible to tell how Dexers and Ranged Archers (not so many Throwers...) are "THE" one Template who gets the most drops...

For 1 Tamer that I see, at any given time in Deceit, I see at least some 5 or 6 Fighters... mostly Dexers, but also Archers.

So, I really do not think that a Mage Tamer is what is getting the most drops...

As in regards to the 2nd point, the "source of grief" of a Monster is the Pet attacking them, not the Tamer staying well away... even if the Tamer dies, the pet keeps fighting...

So, the # 1 priority for the Monster is to get rid of the pet attacking them.... 

And, infact, retargeting often hurts the Monster when other players run by.... I have had several cases where I had died, and my pet was also about to die too, but then other players run by, the Paragon retargeted onto them thus no longer hitting my pet who could therefore heal back on its own (I was dead and could not heal it) and keep hitting the Paragon but, now, without being hit back.

And the Paragon would die, because of its retargeting... kinda stupid, right ?

The Paragon should have stayed on the pet until it was dead and THEN, change target to anything in the vicinity....

Popps, I'll add a key word "a GOOD mage tamer can rack up far more arty drops...".  Playing a good mage is more difficult than playing a fighter or archer, in my experience.   A mage can't just pop into vampire form and start leeching life with every spell hit (let alone life and mana).  Just because there are more fighters does not mean there are more drops going to those players.  I know from my own experience (playing tamer mage) compared to other guild mates who is getting more drops over the same time period.  Mages have access to spells that can damage targets before a fighter can even reach the target.  You have spells that can clear half a room very quickly without close physical proximity between targets.

I recommend you create dummy characters on say atlantic, pacific, lake superior, or other shards you don't play, and just watch non-fighters in deceit (as a ghost).  You might be surprised what you see, if you are watching the good players.

On my monster AI point, let me try from a different angle.  Pretend for a moment these liches and other high INT beings are being controlled by human players (wouldn't that be interesting?).  If I'm controlling one of these, and I see a tamer with ~150HP issue an all kill command, I'm going to prioritize taking the tamer down, as they can buff, heal, and cause that pet to recall out.  I'm not going to focus on the pet first.  Moreover, that high INT being should be using spells that damage all enemies in a wide area.  Much like a good mage would do.   Also, the game AI should really do some different things, or have the chance of doing different things if the tamer's master dies.  Maybe the pet tries to flee in confusion?  The AI as it stands now is very primitive, and as others point out, it's easy to outwit.  Go back to stratos as an example -- that was the most "interesting" boss in the invasions.  You'd have 10 pets on it, and still some of the controlling tamers would die -- how it SHOULD be...