Gargoyle equivilent items, and conversion

This question comes up so much - can "Item X" be converted to a Gargoyle item?

And then everyone is guessing, or saying, I've never seen one, maybe it drops as a human/garg item when you hunt it, maybe you can convert it at Vrulkax the Exalted Artificer at the Crafting Plaza in the Royal City, maybe a tailor can convert it, you can get that one as a Blackthorn artifact, etc.

Is it possible to have a complete definitive list/answer on this subject somewhere please?

Does it already exist?

If need be, can the Devs tidy this area up a bit? It's really confusing for players.

Hi Mariah, thanks for that, that's pretty helpful.

It's a bit confusing, but I think I get it. Your list is extensive regarding Crafted Items, and Doom Recipes.

Is there anything else is probably my question? For example any Artefacts that can be converted? For example - Hat of the Magi? Or Scholars Halo? I note Doom Recipes can be converted at Vrulkax, such as Dr Spectre's Lenses which are crafted using the Hat of the Magi. I also realise they are headgear, and Gargoyles don't use headgear as such. The answer is probably No, but I was never sure on some. For example - Shanty's Waders that actually can spawn as both Human or Gargoyle, and Hephaetus Shield - can these be altered if you wanted to, or they are stuck as what they spawned as?

And Bows to Throwing weapons, can any of them be converted? Again the answer is probably No, but there are some items like Blight of the Tundra, that again are available to both races, while others are not. I often wonder if Bows can be converted. For example - to my knowledge Halawa's Hunting Bow is only available as a Human item, or am I incorrect there? (Whereas other Items from Shadowguard can come in both forms)

While I'm at it, is there any way to convert an item back to Human Usage? 🙂

Thanks for your help.

Edit - Just to add, as I have read a bit closer, I note that under Smith Items you mention that Helmets cannot be converted, is this the case for Tailor Items also, Hats cannot be converted? That would probably solve some of the questions, I don't think you have specifically mentioned Hats under Tailor Alterations. Ahh, although you do say No Clothing Items. Ok, getting it a bit more.

I think I get most of it now, haha. That page was helpful. From a Developer point of view - I do think it could all use a little bit of tidying up - bearing in mind some of the additional questions/ points I made. Topics such as this, do add a layer of complexity where I am not sure it is needed so much.

Thanks for your help, I'm good now. 🙂

Understood, this question does get asked so much by newer guys, and often I cannot answer myself, I think I can now.

Hephaestus most definitely spawns as a garg version sometimes, so unlikely you can alter the human version. (just sold one sorry) do you not get them though on TC when you say give arties?

Mervyn said:

Hephaestus most definitely spawns as a garg version sometimes, so unlikely you can alter the human version. (just sold one sorry) do you not get them though on TC when you say give arties?

Yeah you do Mervyn, I realise it can be tested on Test.

I've only ever been to test centre once, I have no clue how to use it really, mainly been busy actually playing the game.

I understand the answers now as such, now, I just think it's an area that could be tidied up a little, it seems to be more complicated than it needs to be, it could be simplified as a system.

Gargoyles could really use a little love having one less armor slot makes suit building tougher than it should be .....

McDougle said:

Gargoyles could really use a little love having one less armor slot makes suit building tougher than it should be .....

They have the same number of slots as any race.

Ok, this was a surprise, a guildmate tested this on Test Centre.

Turns out the Scholars Halo from Doom does in fact convert into Earrings.

Are there any artifacts that cannot be converted into gargoyle or is not available for a gargoyle? 

Mervyn said:

Are there any artifacts that cannot be converted into gargoyle or is not available for a gargoyle? 

The inquistor's resolution?

Mervyn said:

Are there any artifacts that cannot be converted into gargoyle or is not available for a gargoyle? 

Hawkwind Robe?

They should allow us to convert the Mask of Khal Ankur, You cant find  any available for sale for Gargs and you cant convert the same way you can convert Halos.

Mordred said:

They should allow us to convert the Mask of Khal Ankur, You cant find  any available for sale for Gargs and you cant convert the same way you can convert Halos.

Instead of mask of khal ankur... Gargoyles have pendant of khal ankur.... Are you saying that what you wanna be able to do is convert the mask to glasses or earrings for a head piece and be able to wear it as both neck and mask? Then humans should be able to alter the gargoyle version so we could wear both lol.

Seth said:

Mervyn said:

Are there any artifacts that cannot be converted into gargoyle or is not available for a gargoyle? 

Hawkwind Robe?

Tabards of virtue

RockStaR said:

Mordred said:

They should allow us to convert the Mask of Khal Ankur, You cant find  any available for sale for Gargs and you cant convert the same way you can convert Halos.

Instead of mask of khal ankur... Gargoyles have pendant of khal ankur.... Are you saying that what you wanna be able to do is convert the mask to glasses or earrings for a head piece and be able to wear it as both neck and mask? Then humans should be able to alter the gargoyle version so we could wear both lol.

This would open it up for being able to wear both at the same time... No way should gargoyles be able to have pendant and then alter the mask... Hpi 20 LMC 20 and max EP in 2 items needing no EP on jewel set or talisman.... 

Mordred said:

They should allow us to convert the Mask of Khal Ankur, You cant find  any available for sale for Gargs and you cant convert the same way you can convert Halos.

I have the gargoyle pendant for sale in Atlantic, its just too expensive.

Seth said:

Mordred said:

They should allow us to convert the Mask of Khal Ankur, You cant find  any available for sale for Gargs and you cant convert the same way you can convert Halos.

I have the gargoyle pendant for sale in Atlantic, its just too expensive.

Right. Gargs have khal ankur piece too... No need to make it so mask can be altered cuz you would literally be able to wear both at the same time.... Reminds me of crimson cincture and then that full apron event item with same mods as crimson... Could wear both at same time.

You should read before say anything @RockStaR
Halos for Human - Become Earrings after you convert
MASK of Khaldun - CANT be altered to Earrings and THAT is what I am asking for!

Mordred said:

You should read before say anything @ RockStaR
Halos for Human - Become Earrings after you convert
MASK of Khaldun - CANT be altered to Earrings and THAT is what I am asking for!

So if mask can be altered then it would take head slot.... Gargs got pendant.... Which takes neck slot....  It earrings/glasses take head slot... Pendant takes neck slot.... Devs most likely left it so it can't be altered because of that reason.... Only reason I see people who want it altered is so they can wear both. 

Mariah said:

All doom upgrade artifacts can be converted by Vrulkax

of the older artifacts only some can be altered. This includes

• footwear, shanty's waders, minax sandals, Detective of the royal guard boots (Replica), pads of the cu sidhe, soles of providence.

Pads of the cu sidhe?

Cinderella said:

Mariah said:

All doom upgrade artifacts can be converted by Vrulkax

of the older artifacts only some can be altered. This includes

• footwear, shanty's waders, minax sandals, Detective of the royal guard boots (Replica), pads of the cu sidhe, soles of providence.

Pads of the cu sidhe?

Yes, I guess you can convert them and by wearing them will make the CU Fly   LOL 

hahaha

neither spell woven britches or kelp leggings can be altered

McDougle said:

neither spell woven britches or kelp leggings can be altered

Arroth_Thaiel said:

McDougle said:

neither spell woven britches or kelp leggings can be altered

i tried and took to guy in royal city 🙂

where am i going wrong?

Mervyn said:

Are there any artifacts that cannot be converted into gargoyle or is not available for a gargoyle? 

McDougle said:

where am i going wrong?

Use a character with the Tailoring skill and choose "alter" from the crafting menu.

yes my tailor 120 skill says you can not alter ? 

Make sure that the item is repaired or new, for some reason they will not accept items if not repaired or brand new.

yes i repaired 

mine are powdered to 255 maybe that's the problem ?

My guess is the conversion table for human->garg has not kept up with the introduction of new artifacts.

The human mask of khaldun should be converted to a pendant for gargoyles.
The hunter's headress should convert to a gargish earring with +20 throwing.  (the scholar's halo does the same).
etc, etc.
Many of the doom artifacts (that don't even involve crafting recipes) are convertible to garg form, but not all.

Can the devs revisit this?

Good discussion guys,

Whilst I myself have a better understanding of what is going on, you can all see how confusing this is, and I'm sure there is a better more centralised way this could all be brought together.

One for the Devs. @kyronix .

McDougle said:

mine are powdered to 255 maybe that's the problem ?

Just to followup if any chance you could convert yours or if you managed to make a new pair to try if the conversion works? 

jackals collar cant, ozymandias obi cant.

Mariah said:

Does this help?

https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/crafting/altering/

No, this does NOT help a lot. 
Example: Swords of Prosperity are Daisho. Conversion is NOT working even Gargish Daisho do exist. 
Shadowguard artifacts: Obi cannot be altered, Jumu sacred hide CAN. 
Balakai shaman staff- cannot be altered which leave gargoyles with only  ONE mage weapon -0 choice: Kotl Black Rod. While human/elves have tons of items to choose. 

Question was CAN item X be altered. So we need same list as artifact list . They exist here. https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/artifacts-by-item-type/ ;    Just add "alterable (how)" column. 
Or can it be worn by gargoyles without altering (like Pendant of the Magi). How can you find this without actually buying this artifact and checking? 
Like Enchanted Kelp Woven Leggings - they cannot be altered Spell Woven Britches CAN.  Bronzed Armor of the Valkyrie - also cannot be altered or worn. Even it already has gargish art in the game when you are trying to put it on. 
Players really need SUPPORT in this. So 
1- make list of artifacts VRULKAX actually can alter, and make it avaliable on website or via his menu. It is short list I assume , so will not take lots of time. 
2- Make full list of artifacts (incl craftable ) and if they are able to be altered

Vrulkax will convert items that are crafted from Doom recipes. This information is given in the publish notes, and in the pages:
Tailor Craftables
Tailoring
Artifacts – Doom Gauntlet
Altering

Mariah said:

......

Armor and Weapon artifacts from encounters such as Shadowguard, Doom Gauntlet etc can not be altered.

...

Sorry, you are wrong   


Quivers yes, can be altered. I read it before. Bought some quiver and altered it. Result was awesome : you getting gargish wing armor with NO damage bonus  properties, just weight. 


Vrulkax will convert items that are crafted from Doom recipes.
So he converts nothing more, only 3 peceipe items? or something else too? Can he actually say what he can in the game? Lots of people ask this question here and in the chat. 

Quiver of light and Quiver of Rage can be altered. Just checked.    
But you will loose damage modifier. I think this worth mentioning in a Wiki article about altering. 
Elven quiver becomes leather wing armor with no properties. 

Footwear, sashes and back slot items, such as cloaks and quivers can be altered, but the altering page already states that 'cloaks' that actually use the 'shroud' graphic can not be altered.

Last I looked Juma's sacred hide is a cloak. Cloaks are not classed as 'armor'.

As far as I am aware Vrulkax converts only those items listed on the pages I have linked. To have him give his list in game is not something I can do.

Mariah said:

All doom upgrade artifacts can be converted by Vrulkax

of the older artifacts only some can be altered. This includes

• footwear, shanty's waders, minax sandals, Detective of the royal guard boots (Replica), pads of the cu sidhe, soles of providence.
  
• Sashes, Lieutenant of the Royal Britannia guard (replica), corgul's enchanted sash, sash of warding.
  
• Back slot items, Royal Guard investigator, quiver of rage, quiver of elements, quiver of infinity, Juma's sacred hide
• glasses. Brightsight lenses.

This is not a definitive list, only items I owned and could copy to test center or were accessible via the 'give arties' command on test.

Gwen said:

Mariah said:

Does this help?

https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/crafting/altering

Balakai shaman staff- cannot be altered which leave gargoyles with only  ONE mage weapon -0 choice: Kotl Black Rod. While human/elves have tons of items to 

“The shaman staff comes in wand form which gargoyles can use”

fateswhim said:

jackals collar cant, ozymandias obi cant.

"ozymandias' obi comes in gargoyle form (you must complete the roof encounter as a gargoyle to get it to drop in this form.)"

Hope one day you will continue adding artifacts to " alterable" list. ML ones ,  Treasures of Tokuno.  I would like to have altered Soul Seeker instead of Cu Sidhe pads (even they look really cool!). And Swords of prosperity. 

Also hope there will be addon like altering station similar to repair bench. This will help surviving on low-population shards without having every crafter just for altering. 

seems really lazy that all maces become a disc mace... and a tetsubo, wild staff, quarter staff, and black staff cant be altered who came up with this its trash lets make all human weapons when altered to gargoyle a disc mace... yeah its a good weapon but really?

hunter11 said:

seems really lazy that all maces become a disc mace... and a tetsubo, wild staff, quarter staff, and black staff cant be altered who came up with this its trash lets make all human weapons when altered to gargoyle a disc mace... yeah its a good weapon but really?

hmm , disc mace is really good weapon. And you can alter lots of cheap mace weapons (with bad special moves in human/elf form)  into it. You better check it out more carefull. 
Tetsubo (and other 2 FWW weapons) dont have garg alternative. So FWW is not avaliable for gargs at all. 
Altering Viking sword in Stone sword is good. 

Gwen said:

hunter11 said:

seems really lazy that all maces become a disc mace... and a tetsubo, wild staff, quarter staff, and black staff cant be altered who came up with this its trash lets make all human weapons when altered to gargoyle a disc mace... yeah its a good weapon but really?

hmm , disc mace is really good weapon. And you can alter lots of cheap mace weapons (with bad special moves in human/elf form)  into it. You better check it out more carefull. 
Tetsubo (and other 2 FWW weapons) dont have garg alternative. So FWW is not avaliable for gargs at all. 
Altering Viking sword in Stone sword is good. 

Disc mace and Stone sword is 1 handed. It is also a Mace weapon, most players are swordsmen.

Macers and fencers do not have a 2 hand weapon that has DS(or any useful thing) and WW like Swords do. 
At least the War Hammer alters directly.

The Double Axe turns into a Garg weapon that does not have those 2 specials.  So that is confusing. 

I put my macers skills on my throwing Garg to get Garg armor in the Treasures of Dungeon  spawns.  I used a disc mace for AI and either a War Hammer or whip for WW.
I would have rather used a 2 hand for each because I use Bushido on my warriors so if I use a 1 hand weapon I can't use a shield and I do a lot less damage.

It is confusing to alter a weapon and it now has new specials, especially if you alter something you already got the 100% ele damage on and imbued.

So, if you do want a Macer Garg you can design it around a 1 hand weapon that you switch for WW and AI.  Disc mace and whip. Luckily human jewels work if you are stoning skills off your human to get Garg specific drops.  And I happened to buy Garg SSI epaulets.

I'm sure Ill be switching to my Garg for Wildfire Dungeon to get Garg suits since no one on LS uses a Garg enough to trade me suit pieces.

FWW is on whips a one handed weapon Gargs can use also on the talwar a two handed weapon..