Looking at a poll on another forum 20% of the people say they will drop active accounts for EJ. Can we survive a 20% subscriber drop? Will we pick up that many subscriptions? Anything could happen but I didn't expect to see those kinda numbers. This idea could be a much larger dice roll than I expected.

People say they will leave all the time for every patch.

We'll their not leaving they just aren't going to pay. People say they have accounts just for bod running and such. Seems logical to me. I'm sure there's a lot of accounts that are just used for farming, etc. I just didn't see this as being such a risky move. But there is a big difference between what people say and what people do. But there is a potential for a problem there!

They really need to get some advertising going. I mean they don't even have a pinned post on the UO Facebook page. That would be a good start and cost nothing. Then write up a little press release and send it to some of the gaming blogs maybe?

Some games have flourished under Free2Play, others have not. I played both City of Heroes and Lord of the Rings Online. Both went F2P around 2011. LOTRO is still expanding, but CoH was closed down by the developer. Rumors were it wasn't that CoH wasn't profitable as F2P, the developer had just "lost interest" in it.

Broadsword should know their subscriber base. Pacific Shard is very quiet these days. If every Veteran player brings at least two other players to try Ultima Online, and those make one or two purchases, it can add up quick. Whether it is a good idea or not time will tell. But trying to convince friends to pay a monthly fee for any game is difficult these days with so many F2P options.

Captain_Lucky said:

We'll their not leaving they just aren't going to pay. People say they have accounts just for bod running and such. Seems logical to me. I'm sure there's a lot of accounts that are just used for farming, etc. I just didn't see this as being such a risky move. But there is a big difference between what people say and what people do. But there is a potential for a problem there!

I have accounts like you are talking about and with EJ I can still do the same thing so why should I keep them open?  IMHO I think there are a lot of VETs out there that have the same thing and will think very hard on what to do.  Do we save the money and risk to many accounts closing that EA has to ask if UO is profitable or do we pay and keep UO open with the same support we have always had. I will keep my 2 mains open but think hard on the others.

With continued focus and updates to the UO store, the subscription money isnt as relevant as it once was.  Theres some new items coming that will definitely be popular, and probably make more with just those store items alone than any lost accounts.  Case in point- even Time of Legends, Eodon was given out for free to all active subs at release.  If there were finanical troubles, i highly doubt that would have been the case.

plus, the stratics poll is 21 votes who say they'll leave.  some of which are probably multiple forum accounts of the same person.  lets be frank, UOhall for the last few years has become a few regulars going back and forth, i hardly see it as representative of the overall UO population.

To sum things up, i think it will be fine.

The whole point of endless journey was just a way to overcome the sub-barrier.   it does exist.  And it works to eliminate that barrier.  Its hard to re-sub blind to a game you havent played in years, but once you see whats around, many of those coming back will likely become paying costumers.  Or even if they dont, their presence bolsters the population, which makes things better for all of us, making it more likely for paying accounts to keep those accounts open, subbed, buying store items, etc.

My opinion on the "EJ" is that it will end up NOT really bringing new players to the game. Because of a little thing called ADVERTISING, or, in this case, of a complete lack there of. I also feel that the current "restrictions" will make it VERY easy to abuse by the multiboxxers/scripters/RMT $$$ people. Unless @Mesanna @Bleak @Kyronix and the rest of the staff take a proactive stance on BANNING these people, I suspect EJ is going to "blow up" in their faces. Causing people to quit the game over it. I personally know of close to 100 accounts, hanging on by a thread,  that people SAY they are waiting to see what stance is taken against the multiboxxers/scripters/RMT people before deciding to renew or close accounts. 

KHAN said:

My opinion on the "EJ" is that it will end up NOT really bringing new players to the game.

I dont think it was ever meant to.  UO has had millions of players over the years.  If someone new comes, yes that will be great, but the focus has always been on bringing players back. 

I agree, a little advertising, dev streams, maybe an official discord wouldnt hurt in bringing players back, but thats up for the devs to decide whats actually needed.  Word of mouth for niche games usually is the most effective anyway.

totally agree about the possible abuses.  that will be the deciding factor for myself.  not going to cast judgement until i see what happens, hoping for the best.   A pro-active stance does need to be taken, hopefully that happens.

@Smoot Why should they resub when alls they are missing is Bank and house, I remember living out of a ship for a long time before I could afford the gold for a small stone keep.  I do not see really any increase in subs but do see some accounts closing because the restrictions will not effect what they do and what OMG items do you think the store will sell that will bring in a lot of money.

if you can live out of the bank space given, and dont need a house, i wouldnt tell anyone to sub.  But given that houses, and the vast array of non-character bound items is something that sets UO apart, i dont think most people would be able to do it. 

I couldnt see myself doing much more than RP on an endless journey account.  If someone can, then they should go endless journey.  Im sure these things were thought about, possible losses / gains were thought about before Broadsword decided go thru with it.

Smoot- " I'm sure these things were thought about, possible losses / gains were thought about before Broadsword decided go thru with it." I feel like you are giving them WAY too much credit. hehe

@Smoot ; I have some active BOD accounts plus my MAINs open and I will open a closed BOD account with EJ and see what it can do.  I fear that I will be able to do %100 what I could do when it was subed so will decide to close all BOD accounts and open them under EJ.

For us regular players that have been paying and playing I don't see the F2P aspect being all that spiffy. You know, the folks that kept the lights on all these years. With BS getting into selling actual game effecting items (70s suits, shields, etc) how long will it be till the best items in the game are purchase only? They're cracking that door open now. So we will pay a subscription AND be forced to follow the buy items F2P model on top of that? The times they are a changin'. If they actually did lose say 20% of the subscriber base they will be hard pressed not to crank up the store with uber items. I think everyone is currently looking over their accounts right now and many would be nuts not to bite the 3 month bullet and go F2P. I expect very interesting times ahead and I hope BS has what it takes to pull it off and not take the bus off the cliff. As far as uber items in the UO store, I think these things happen in baby steps and I think the toddler is walking! I was thinking this would be a real boon to crafters but you can buy one token and totally forget about needing anything from crafters. You can skip the crafters and go straight into the drop stage which are the best items in game currently. I'm rather focused on things 6 months or a year down the road and not the current glitter being thrown in our eyes and I'm somewhat concerned about the path we're on. I was thinking we could probably pick up some subscribers, but if we're coming out of the gate 20% in the hole that's gonna take a lot of new players to make up that gap and put us noticeably into the gain column. 

That other forum has a tremendous amount of members who vote on polls and comment opinions for game changes that have not had open accounts for years. Also, as stated above, some have multiple alts and vote as well. 

Honestly I would say the poll really isn't all that valuable or accurate. Not the other forums fault its just part of the community that is there. 

Having read all the sky is falling drama about EJ I have to say it really doesn't open the door further to any scripting/cheating more than we are already dealing with. 

Looks to be a good step in the right direction and time will tell if it is effective in opening doors and building relationships with new and old players. 

Sure it would be really nice if there was some marketing related to it but at the end of the day once the person logs in, it is the way the community engages them and how they engage with the community that makes the difference in regards to if they decide to stay or not. 

I was happy to see some solid helpful interaction with vets and new arrivals in the wee hours of this morning on Atlantic. Have to say I was heartened to see the support and answers to questions without the middle school level mentality crap going on. 

I can see EJ going either way. Should be really interesting. I was thinking the store might be cool but it's on a different path now. Today it's the crafters losing out. Tomorrow? When I have to pay to stay in the game above the subscription costs that will be when UO jumped the shark. They're already losing my crafters a major possible gold influx right outta the gate. I can see them giving the newbs a skill bonus to an extent but getting a 70s suit, full spell book set, etc could be achieved pretty easily. I'm sure many vendors would pander to the new players. I sorta went from super excited about EJ to this is how it all went south mode.

@Captain_Lucky

LOL! Well let's try and stay optimistic and assume they can roll with the negative fall out 🙂

Is that enough likes.  You have stated so well what I and IMHO other fear the most.

Well anyone would appreciate such overwhelming support. lol But I've certainly been wrong before. But I got my eyes open. The "instant vet token" kinda got me on a roll. The lose 20% on paid subscriptions poll was a bucket of cold water dumped on me. The reason it hit me was it's a logic based assumption. Any account not holding a house could probably easily switch to free. I'm thinking we're gonna need to tweek EJ a bit before it fully settles in. I could see vets dropping accounts and then 3 months later needing to subscribe again. But by then they might be use to saving the money. This isn't as clear cut and simple as some might think. It certainly isn't a win win for anyone. Everyone including EA is gonna take a hit and it'll be a roller coaster ride to see if it pays off. Right out of the gate I think you'll see many more people dropping accounts over opening new paid ones and that's never good to see a big drop right out of the gate with a new system. It's like a season finale on TV and I'm just holding my breath waiting to see what happens next.

I hate to say it but letting EJ accounts do bods will probably cost EA/BS money. Bods are more of a high level thing to do when your bored anyway. Especially with limited storage I find it hard to believe EJ people are going to be jumping into bods anytime soon. I could see EVERYONE picking up new EJ accounts to do an insane amount of bods though. Or dropping paid accounts that do that now. Of all the restrictions on new accounts I think doing bods would be the least of their worries.

Captain_Lucky said:

But I got my eyes open. The "instant vet token" kinda got me on a roll.

Are you talking about the
Deluxe Starter Pack

• This starter pack is a perfect way to jumpstart your journey in Britannia!
• This starter pack includes,
• A Runic Atlas (a high capacity runebook) that comes pre-loaded with recall runes to Britannia’s Vaults, Banks, and Points of Interest
• A Runic Hunter’s Atlas that allows recalling to a variety of hunting grounds friendly to the training adventurer, complete with location descriptions and tips
• A full complement of full spellbooks for all magic schools including Bushido, Chivalry, Magery, Mysticism, Necromancy, and Ninjitsu
• A Token of Skill Alacrity that allows you and your party members to experience an increased rate of skill gain for an entire week
• A Deluxe Journeyman’s Armor token that outfits the adventurer in a starter set of human/elf or gargish leather armor providing 70% in all resists, +15 Hit Points, +17 Mana, +17 Stamina, +30 Lower Mana Cost, +6 Hit Point Regeneration, +6 Mana Regeneration, +10 Stamina Regeneration, +5 Strength, +5 Dexterity, +5 Intelligence, and 100% Lower Reagent Cost
• A Community Collection Point Award token that can be redeemed at the Moonglow Zoo, Vesper Museum, or Britain Library for 500,000 points
• A Dungeon Point Award Point Token that can be redeemed for 100 Blackthorn Dungeon points, 1000 Dungeon Crystal Points of Despise, and 1000 Covetous Points
• A direct deposit of 1,000,000 gold into your currency account
• All items are account and shard bound.

Bilbo said:

Captain_Lucky said:

But I got my eyes open. The "instant vet token" kinda got me on a roll.

Are you talking about the
Deluxe Starter Pack

• This starter pack is a perfect way to jumpstart your journey in Britannia!
• This starter pack includes,
• A Runic Atlas (a high capacity runebook) that comes pre-loaded with recall runes to Britannia’s Vaults, Banks, and Points of Interest
• A Runic Hunter’s Atlas that allows recalling to a variety of hunting grounds friendly to the training adventurer, complete with location descriptions and tips
• A full complement of full spellbooks for all magic schools including Bushido, Chivalry, Magery, Mysticism, Necromancy, and Ninjitsu
• A Token of Skill Alacrity that allows you and your party members to experience an increased rate of skill gain for an entire week
• A Deluxe Journeyman’s Armor token that outfits the adventurer in a starter set of human/elf or gargish leather armor providing 70% in all resists, +15 Hit Points, +17 Mana, +17 Stamina, +30 Lower Mana Cost, +6 Hit Point Regeneration, +6 Mana Regeneration, +10 Stamina Regeneration, +5 Strength, +5 Dexterity, +5 Intelligence, and 100% Lower Reagent Cost
• A Community Collection Point Award token that can be redeemed at the Moonglow Zoo, Vesper Museum, or Britain Library for 500,000 points
• A Dungeon Point Award Point Token that can be redeemed for 100 Blackthorn Dungeon points, 1000 Dungeon Crystal Points of Despise, and 1000 Covetous Points
• A direct deposit of 1,000,000 gold into your currency account
• All items are account and shard bound.

I like this starter kit, perfect for any vets wanting to start on a new server 

Yes that's one of them. Another token gives you a shield. It seems a little over the top for me. That token I'd think really deflated the sails of a lot of crafters and crafting has been dead for awhile. Crafting almost completely relies on a pyramid scheme of new players. Or the rich and lazy that don't like spending hours making gate scrolls kinda thing. But the store went from selling items that were really deco/status for the most part to selling things that directly effect game play. It's kinda subtle but it's going there. I see it as the shape of things to come.

Goes back to look at shield.

You know, they already sell shields, armor, and weapons in the store. One more shield is probably not that big a deal.

The Deluxe Starter Kit has a decent suit, but it is really pretty basic. Also, not everyone who checks out EJ is going to buy it. Although I have a couple friends who would rather buy it, jump in and play along, then spend hours trying to figure out a suit and getting books and stuff set up.

It really is just a starter kit. It might help accelerate some players into the game and let them skip some of the un-fun housekeeping stuff that is particular to UO.

Why not let people have the option to jump in and play along with their friends?

Besides, if they want to outfit 5 characters, your crafters will probably still be busy. I bet people buy one or two kits, then turn to game mechanic's for the rest of their stuff.

I might buy a Deluxe Kit or two just for the Runic Hunter's Atlas though.

Take a deep breath Captain, it'll be fine. Steady hand on the tiller and all that. 🙂

Really with LRC tossed in that's a really nice suit. I'm pretty sure I have a few toons that aren't running stuff that nice. Just not big on the pay to win thing. A subscription is going to be not enough, they're going to require us to pay more as time goes on. Not that people don't do it anyway lol It's just a little harsher coming directly from the game. It's the whole pay to win path they're going down now that has me feeling it's a sad day.

Captain_Lucky said:

Really with LRC tossed in that's a really nice suit. I'm pretty sure I have a few toons that aren't running stuff that nice. Just not big on the pay to win thing. A subscription is going to be not enough, they're going to require us to pay more as time goes on. Not that people don't do it anyway lol It's just a little harsher coming directly from the game. It's the whole pay to win path they're going down now that has me feeling it's a sad day.

Sorcerer's Armor Set

• Intelligence Bonus 12
• Mana Regeneration 2
• Defense Chance Increase 10%
• Lower Mana Cost 5%
• Lower Reagent Cost 100%
• Physical Resist 70%
• Fire Resist 70%
• Cold Resist 70%
• Poison Resist 70%
• Energy Resist 70%

That sorcerer's suit is weak sauce compared to the token one

Yea, and it completely removes any reason to loot gear for new players on New Haven island.

Captain_Lucky said:

Yes that's one of them. Another token gives you a shield. It seems a little over the top for me. That token I'd think really deflated the sails of a lot of crafters and crafting has been dead for awhile. Crafting almost completely relies on a pyramid scheme of new players. Or the rich and lazy that don't like spending hours making gate scrolls kinda thing. But the store went from selling items that were really deco/status for the most part to selling things that directly effect game play. It's kinda subtle but it's going there. I see it as the shape of things to come.

No one likes skill gain.  its the one thing people afk script that most people dont argue too much against, that even mesanna herself has said she has macroed.  Yes, battling an earth elemental for 5 mins was fun in 97, but its not now.  I think the skill boost is great, and long overdue.

The other stuff, it bascially also just saves time.  The spellbooks are basic slayers, the suit isnt close to full stats.  Theres plenty of room left for crafters.  Same with crafting, in 2018 gone are the days of a many people wanting a basic 100 lrc suit.  Crafters need to adapt.  mid-grade suits (that are still very cheap to make) sell very well.  Think 1 low-cost legendary, with some imbued jewels, and a reforged piece or 2 stats like HCI or DCI. 

I know from personal experience crafting is by no means dead, the market is huge for this types of suits.  ive sold many max stat suits in 50m to 150m range, easy to make with pretty low investment.  Just dont have the time or committment anymore to keep doing it.  But dont understand why people say crafting is dead.  Yes, its a mix of reforged / legenday / imbued now, and more complex, but still very high demand.  If you want a maxed out 3bil pvp suit, yeah its going to be loot.  but most people dont want that and you can play all the pvm content in the game with crafted weapons / armor.  Not to mention the new deco rewards, which have proven compete in price / demand with the higher end runics (which are actually harder to get)

I personally just wonder why they did not call it Free-To-Play. It would be free advertising. But hey, let's name it something nobody ever will recognize as FTP  😂

Captain_Lucky said:

That sorcerer's suit is weak sauce compared to the token one

But so many vets use it. Odd.  A Int/mana suit with LRC and LMC is easiest to loot or buy.

Pawain said:

Captain_Lucky said:

That sorcerer's suit is weak sauce compared to the token one

But so many vets use it. Odd.  A Int/mana suit with LRC and LMC is easiest to loot or buy.

I use them on all my crafters/BOD collectors.  They were cheap and easy to get, I threw away a castle full of junk and still have a ton of points left over.

Bilbo said:

Pawain said:

Captain_Lucky said:

That sorcerer's suit is weak sauce compared to the token one

But so many vets use it. Odd.  A Int/mana suit with LRC and LMC is easiest to loot or buy.

I use them on all my crafters/BOD collectors.  They were cheap and easy to get, I threw away a castle full of junk and still have a ton of points left over.

I mean Vet PvM players.  I think they just like the wizard hat.  Cause the stats are not great.

Pawain said:

Captain_Lucky said:

That sorcerer's suit is weak sauce compared to the token one

But so many vets use it. Odd.  A Int/mana suit with LRC and LMC is easiest to loot or buy.

I'm not saying they're a bad suit, but now you could buy better with real cash. It might be aimed at a certain type of toon also. But that token suit is a pretty sweet well rounded suit. I don't use one cause I don't like being called Gandalf

Captain_Lucky said:

Pawain said:

Captain_Lucky said:

That sorcerer's suit is weak sauce compared to the token one

But so many vets use it. Odd.  A Int/mana suit with LRC and LMC is easiest to loot or buy.

I'm not saying they're a bad suit, but now you could buy better with real cash. It might be aimed at a certain type of toon also. But that token suit is a pretty sweet well rounded suit. I don't use one cause I don't like being called Gandalf

hooded umbra robes work well with these.

Ah now your seeing the delema....

EJ will bring in old returning players this I can see, but I do also see many who have shut down their accounts waiting out the EJ rollout to play free... That's a lot more players then many think are waiting on it.   I am sitting on the fence about EJ.  On the one hand EJ has the potential to let those with less time to play have a longer time to decide to join us. This will even help old vets to get back in the swing.. I also see the in game store with that sweet deal on starter pack will be a big pull.   Now on the other side of the brick wall I see the down side.. As said before many have closed down in hopes of a free game that they can live with. 

Mean as I might sound the loss of a bank box might be the first key to the subscriptions later in the trial of EJ.  Oh and quite a few F2Ps went under.  The restrictions were too much and with the population dying they made the wrong choices..  This is my fear with UO.  Give too much the game looses enough $$ and EA has a perfect reason to cut us off. 

We all forget EA owns the game and controls the shots to a set degree.. I have seen some advertising and mentions of UO.. but not to the degree we need.  Now I cant blame Mesanna or Ea for it as many mags and sites do have the right to not run or limit the exposure on their pages. Lets face it we are very very old news.

As a side note 

A friend I will not name has been from shortly after the 20th anniversary party came back and has worked out how to play as he always has and still have the game free.  He is a bright person. I have little doubt in his methods.  All quite legal.  2 to 4 EJ accounts and one can play and not give a penny to EA as we do now.    No I will not tell you his method...  

Lady_Storm said:

Ah now your seeing the delema....

EJ will bring in old returning players this I can see, but I do also see many who have shut down their accounts waiting out the EJ rollout to play free... That's a lot more players then many think are waiting on it.   I am sitting on the fence about EJ.  On the one hand EJ has the potential to let those with less time to play have a longer time to decide to join us. This will even help old vets to get back in the swing.. I also see the in game store with that sweet deal on starter pack will be a big pull.   Now on the other side of the brick wall I see the down side.. As said before many have closed down in hopes of a free game that they can live with. 

Mean as I might sound the loss of a bank box might be the first key to the subscriptions later in the trial of EJ.  Oh and quite a few F2Ps went under.  The restrictions were too much and with the population dying they made the wrong choices..  This is my fear with UO.  Give too much the game looses enough $$ and EA has a perfect reason to cut us off. 

We all forget EA owns the game and controls the shots to a set degree.. I have seen some advertising and mentions of UO.. but not to the degree we need.  Now I cant blame Mesanna or Ea for it as many mags and sites do have the right to not run or limit the exposure on their pages. Lets face it we are very very old news.

As a side note 

A friend I will not name has been from shortly after the 20th anniversary party came back and has worked out how to play as he always has and still have the game free.  He is a bright person. I have little doubt in his methods.  All quite legal.  2 to 4 EJ accounts and one can play and not give a penny to EA as we do now.    No I will not tell you his method...  

 🙂  ❤️