What tweaks do you think the treasure chest loot need?

Now that the publish has been out world wide what tweaks do you think the treasure chest loot needs?  Remember going back to the old loot system is not option so please do not even bring it up.

I will begin with:
Needs less scrolls of alacrity
Needs less shield engravers

I have yet to try it because I just don't feel like training remove trap.

For those that have, are item properties still a random mess like everywhere else in the game (rings with SSI, LRC and wrestling or some useless combo) or do the map types affect the types of properties that show up on loot?

Agree on less blue scrolls! 

Why less blues?

Why less blues: I get one or two blues in each supply chest.  It is a rarity to not get a blue.

Are we afraid that the prices of blues will drop or that certain people can not control the market?  I hear that PSs have a good drop rate too, when will we hear the calls to lower that too.  Don't forget about all those pinks that are dropping too.

I've gotten so many blues now that I consider them junk like I do the shield engravers and toss them into the trash barrel.

I am not thrilled with the low drop rate of things like mana orbs, deco, and the green-backpack-artifacts. However, I expressed my unhappiness with that enough, so I will not harp on it more. I console myself with the notion these will increase in value, while the various paper goods go down. *shrug*

I would really, really love to see Eodon stash and supply artisan chests have Eodon crafting materials. Tiger pelts, dragon turtle scute, perfect bananas, etc.

TimSt said:

I've gotten so many blues now that I consider them junk like I do the shield engravers and toss them into the trash barrel.

Storage isn't an issue, they can be held in books of 300. 

If you are finding yourself having too many, maybe a trip to haven helping out a returning player is in order.  


Our guild is finding the blues we find highly useful and we can never have enough.  I was excited I was able to help a casual returning player get to 120 SW today (after her working on the skill for months) by giving her alacrity scrolls I found while treasure hunting.  Our alliance is always getting new returning players and one of the biggest hurdles they face is skill raising.
 

I think I that is a great use for the Blue Scrolls. I have been thinking if I have a lot that I do not need I can also do the same. I have also been thinking of figuring out a way to help equip the new and returning players with mid lvl armor and weapons instead of unraveling them.

People complaining about too many blues and pinks and PSs are just mad because now they gonna have to find some other way to earn gold.  If you have too many, drop em in Haven, Luna, on top of Brit Bank, or put em on a vendor for 5k...instead of being pissy and just tossing them.

I'll be glad when we have a team that breaks the monotony on PS's as well, and introduces all of them to all t-chests and spawns.  But money talks, and wishes walk

Lets get back onto the topic of what tweaks the loot needs.  Discussions of motivations while interesting does not provide actionable data for the devs.

yes.sir. :

From the pics I have seen, the main tweak is to adjust it so that the mods make sense and match up.  

Overall, I've done (checks the Lockers) about 120 maps since the system went live, including the Vesper Carto quest maps (fun that quest!).

My treasure hunting is done with two characters:

• Legendary Paladin; 0 required skills and no luck (max supply level chests, because no LP)
• Training T-Hunter/Bard/Mage; required skills avg 80, avg. 1k luck (max cache chests, she's still training and cannot handle the higher mobs yet)

The wearable/weapon loots I'm seeing are definitely influenced by luck. The better the luck, the better the piece - and that seems fine with me. The number of pieces also seems to be right with regard to the type of chest (rusty/normal/gold). No complaints here (but see further comment below regarding what I do with this loot).

All chests are a bit heavy on the gems/gold though. I understand that the "thinking" of whomever buried the treasure distrusts the bank - but really... that is whole lot of gold some people are hoarding. My paladin can do 2 chests before having to send gold off to the bank, my T-hunter can only do one - am thinking I need to tweak her stats a bit more. 

I am doing more artisan chests, and notice the reforging items are utterly random - and since I don't use them I figured I'd collect/combine/sell... I have enough clean up points to last me forever. The actual resources (ingots mostly) are rather skimpy though, I'd expect more high-end resources like Ver/Val ingots or Frost/Blood woods, maybe even some granite or rare gems. I will note that I haven't seen ANY wood. 

The new artwork on the bags (gold, gems) is awesome, but like back-in-the-day when everyone was throwing those brown furs on the ground, these bags are rather plentiful. Perhaps make them more desirable by having them appear only some of the time? Yes, I am finding these bags dropped at banks or even in the wild. Reminds me of the Cat Statue and those brown furs littering the land. Perhaps the majority of the time the "riches" be loose in the chest, and only some percentage of time it is contained in the bag. Would raise the spawn-with-looting rate, but that's okay.

I suspect these colored fragments are temporary to the loot table, so not gonna comment on that.

And I've yet to get any of the deco/special items other than Pinks and Blues. I really want some of the deco; so I need to train my T-hunter more (and tweak her stats).

Insofar as those Ps & Bs, they go into my books for returning/new players. I'm not being utterly inundated with scrolls, so I'm not able to judge on the drop rate. I will note that I am seeing prices drop on Pacific - which isn't surprising - but there is still a call for them on vendors. Particularly the magery, bushido, barding, vet, taming & lore scrolls. The market is falling for them, but there is still a demand on Pac.


I will note that I've outfitted 4 new players on Pacific (one is a complete "young" character - a convert from WoW) with armor and weapons specifically pulled from the treasure chests. I've even taken to imbuing some pieces for people; and I've not been doing any armor work in years. So that there is a bit of something. 

TimSt said:

Lets get back onto the topic of what tweaks the loot needs.  Discussions of motivations while interesting does not provide actionable data for the devs.

So is it my understanding that you only want pats on the back for every suggestion, well guess what it aint gonna happen because the devs need to here from the one that do not think every idea has the blessing of all the players but good try.

I'm generally happy. Paper goods, maybe the prices will come down to where the new and returning players who need them can afford them. We get a few of each of these daily on Europa.

Green back packs, well what did we do with the contents of those?  Mostly trash them, so here's a difference in understanding.  Trash = not valued, worthless, unwanted. Why would you want more of them?  This gap in understanding also shows in the other thread wanting new, supposedly interesting and desirable items given 'trash' points. 

Random loot generation, needs some exploring and explaining to achieve better 'grouping' of properties. Maybe we should have a thread just for that?  
To start I would make SDI and DI an 'either or' option, many items spawn with both properties, and that's not wanted. I'd go so far as to make them overwrite each other when imbuing like the hit spell properties do.

• 30k gold
• a mini arti (and yes most went in the bin for cleanup but I would always keep heart of lion, burglers bandanas, iolo lute/gwenno harp, dread pirate hats, candleabras, violet courage and sometimes nox bows) 
• 6 essences
• 50+ of most regs (necro and mage)
• 20 gems
• 50-60 items to sort through average of 15 of those being artifact level, generally 1-4 keepers. 

• a pardon,
• mana orb,
• runed sash
• a treasure map
  
• recipe
• scroll of alacrity
• scroll of transcendence
• skeleton key
• tasty treats

@Bilbo Actually I am trying to keep the thread on track and open instead of going off track and getting closed by the moderators.

@MissE Sorry for the confusion.  What I was trying to say is do not bring up undoing the changes and going back to the previous loot model.  That is not going to happen.

My observation is that GM Remove Trap doesn't work well enough on horde chests.
The horde chests aren't even top tier chests and i fail on average of 4 times with gm RT. 
It just doesn't seem right for the sacrifices that we make on our template in order to fit GM RT and Keep GM Carto on (while digging chests).
IMO you should not fail RT with GM skill on Horde chests.  Trove yes but not Horde.
Sorry a little off topic since it isn't related to loot.

here...
Take pinks out of tram ruleset chests

Lieutenant_Dan said:

My observation is that GM Remove Trap doesn't work well enough on horde chests.
The horde chests aren't even top tier chests and i fail on average of 4 times with gm RT. 
It just doesn't seem right for the sacrifices that we make on our template in order to fit GM RT and Keep GM Carto on (while digging chests).
IMO you should not fail RT with GM skill on Horde chests.  Trove yes but not Horde.

RT is not a pass or fail, it is a time thing. The higher your RT skill, the less time it takes (thus less ancient spawn). And I've seen this difference first hand between my two toons doing the Tmaps, then helping people on some Trove maps with different ppl digging up/LP/RT at different skill levels. Definitely a difference with varying levels of RT on the amount of time to succeed. 

Just stay near the chest and have other people aggro the spawn. 

And yes, if you run too far away 16 tiles max I believe is what is in the release notes) or die during your attempt, you will then have to start all over (the timer resets). I have run circles around the chest within 10 tiles and so far this rule holds true.

TimSt said:

@ Bilbo Actually I am trying to keep the thread on track and open instead of going off track and getting closed by the moderators.

@ MissE Sorry for the confusion.  What I was trying to say is do not bring up undoing the changes and going back to the previous loot model.  That is not going to happen.

Then the whole topic is lipstick on a pig. Anyway, that ship has sailed, lots of people tried to explain how this is a big nerf when it was still on TC. I take it as a big middle finger from Kyronix to only pump the number of SoT and SoA 5x but leaving all the other stuff like skeleton keys, MPOs, etc. nerfed. Guess he didnt like how nobody appreciated his initial vision.

MissE is point on. A new system has to stand the comparision with its predecessor. And for that it's just a big nerf. Apart from making level 6 and 7 maps pointless as well..

Loot on a high level map should look like

• 30k gold
• a mini arti
• 6 essences
• 50+ of most regs (necro and mage)
• 20 gems
• 50-60 items to sort through average of 15 of those being artifact level, generally 1-4 keepers. 

• a pardon,
• mana orb,
• runed sash
• a treasure map 
  
• recipe
• scroll of alacrity
• scroll of transcendence
• skeleton key
• tasty treats

Then from that baseline add PS to old 6/7 maps and mapmaker glasses to 7 chests. Place the new deco stuff like swords also in lower level chests to throw the noobs a bone which don't have a proper hunter for the higher levels.

CovenantX said:

The only issues I have with T-maps.

1)  What's the lore behind 'blood' preventing you from picking up items from a chest? (I know this has been a thing forever, but it has also been annoying AF forever)

2) the fortified / of defense package spawns WAY too f***ing often, though it's not limited to T-map loot, it did seem to occur once the +5 carto glasses were fixed. now it's dropping everywhere, and far too often.

3)  No exceptional whips from  Artisan Eodon maps?     add them plz,

"2) the fortified / of defense package spawns WAY too f***ing often, though it's not limited to T-map loot, it did seem to occur once the +5 carto glasses were fixed. now it's dropping everywhere, and far too often."

This is a GOOD thing that they spawn in good quantity !

For those using them, they can be combined towards better Refinements and for those not using them, they can be sold or turned in for Clean Up Points.

Frankly, it is a GOOD thing that they spawn in good quantity, this should NOT be reduced, to my opinion.

I think the biggest problem in regards to loot isn't 100% T-maps.  
The problem is when they nerfed the total loot intensity an item can have on all global loot (intensity cap).  

Now we have a situation where the developers are making many instances of PvM a lot more difficult (doom,  the roof,  T-maps, EM events and soon to be Corgal and Scalis!).
 Yet at the same time they lowered the quality and intensity of the gear we need to do these events.  It seems completely ass backwards if you ask me.  Before you know it the difficulty of the game will have outpaced the players ability to gear up and compete with the game environment.
You gotta ask yourself,  how many other games does the PvE get progressively harder while at the same time the gear drops get progressively weaker?

The other issue i have with all loot in general is with named gear.  Item properties assigned from the named prefix/suffix generator are too restricting for legendary artifacts.  It's like big brother telling us what properties an item SHOULD have and what properties it should NOT have.  NO.  Let it be completely random.  Named gear is okay for crafted items because that's the way reforging was set up but when it's applied to legendary artifacts it limits our ability get certain mods with other certain mods.

MissE said:

The problem now is unless you wanna do malas maps (the only ones with mass supply from the dark guardian room), then getting enough supply of other facet ones is near impossible.

I pointed that only level 6 maps are decently farmable while it was on TC but the usual fanbois just said its fine and said go kill Balrons 

Is there anything planned to add where the 60% solo T-Hunters can reliably get now level 5 maps comparable to how most hunters currently farm Miasma for level 6 maps?

Kyronix didn't mind to answer. The short sighted answer from Petra was:

What did you do before Miasma made it so 'easy'?

So don't 'farm' maps, just collect them as you get them hunting. Most of my Ter Mur maps have come from Stygian Abyss when I was working mini champs for essence.

Hag's quest gives all the levels except Trove.  
My fisherman gets maps when I'm fishing for mibs. I used to just ditch them, but now they'll have things in that I want.
Two of the maps I've dug the last couple of days came off the guardians I was killing on the map, not to mention maps in the chests. 
Try hunting paragon chests in Ilsh, all levels?

They just had no idea what they were doing.

MissE said:

given that you can get 4 alacrity scrolls on one map, I am already swimming in em.  Great for new players, useless for those who have pretty much every skill trained so that is probably the majority of players more than 5 yrs old.

Well I know countless people who are more than 5 years old that still character develop (often on new shards), so right there that point is proven wrong.  I also am well aware that UO tends to have a revolving playerbase.  People who play 3-6 months then take off for 6 months to a year or more off.  We often deal with people who have had a 8-14 year break.  Running our website, we actually encounter a lot of these people regularly on all different shards. 

So let's look at this from pure analytic perspective:

I went to 6 servers: Atlantic, Siege, Pacific, Origin, Great Lakes, Chesapeake looking for the following alacrities: Animal Taming, Lore, Chivlary, Lockpicking, Ninjitsu, Discord and Spellweaving.

Most shards had little to none of those scrolls, Atlantic being the trade hub only had 8 animal taming, all for over a million a piece. Great Lakes was runner up with a couple.  Pacific, where TimSt appears to be from, the vendors had little to none. (if you need actual numbers, oh I can get you those, but it will be later today)

So either the scrolls are so popular on the shards that vendors cannot keep them in stock or people are not acquiring them in such mass quantities that they are unable to do anything with them.  Oh and if someone puts them on a Chesapeake vendor, they sell out.  I do know this.

MissE said:

I must admit I am now swimming in gold and gems too, way too many for the lower level maps, I mean I do ten supply maps in less than an hour, that is more gold than doing a champ spawn.

So you are comparing an experienced thunter doing tmaps vs the worlds worst champ spawner if you are using an hour as a gauge.   Anyone who is worth anything is doing 3 champs spawns an hour.  If they are good they are looking at 4+ an hour.

So who is raking in more gold?  What I'm getting from this is you don't want alternate means of acquiring gold for people

I think "naked,exceptional" (ZERO mod) whips should be able to drop from ANY Eodon chest, instead of the unusable, crappy ones that currently drop! That would interest me in bothering with them. Also, the Fel, Lvl 5 maps should have a chance at dropping a 115 PS. FYI, it takes 120 combined 110 PS's to make a 120 (960 PS's if they are 105's)!!! So that would be AT LEAST 120 lvl 4/5 chests, of the same "type" hoping they ALL drop THE SAME 110 PS. That is putting MASSIVELY more time and effort than doing a Fel champ spawn, so why not give some additional "reward"? After all you ARE in Fel! 

As far as the rest of it goes, in my opinion, for what we ended up with, it was nothing more than a waste of several months of developer time, and yes, overall it IS a nerf! I admit that It DOES have a few positive aspects/perks, but nothing that will keep me doing treasure maps in the long run. The bottom line is, the time could have been put to MUCH better use. Also, keep in mind that most of us had to beg and plead, bitch and moan,  "call out" the devs, and/or get dismissed/insulted BY the devs, JUST to get it to where it is now! Who apparently thought the "first test" was just fine. @Bleak @Kyronix

popps said:

CovenantX said:

The only issues I have with T-maps.

1)  What's the lore behind 'blood' preventing you from picking up items from a chest? (I know this has been a thing forever, but it has also been annoying AF forever)

2) the fortified / of defense package spawns WAY too f***ing often, though it's not limited to T-map loot, it did seem to occur once the +5 carto glasses were fixed. now it's dropping everywhere, and far too often.

3)  No exceptional whips from  Artisan Eodon maps?     add them plz,

"2) the fortified / of defense package spawns WAY too f***ing often, though it's not limited to T-map loot, it did seem to occur once the +5 carto glasses were fixed. now it's dropping everywhere, and far too often."

This is a GOOD thing that they spawn in good quantity !

For those using them, they can be combined towards better Refinements and for those not using them, they can be sold or turned in for Clean Up Points.

Frankly, it is a GOOD thing that they spawn in good quantity, this should NOT be reduced, to my opinion.

popps said:

CovenantX said:

The only issues I have with T-maps.

1)  What's the lore behind 'blood' preventing you from picking up items from a chest? (I know this has been a thing forever, but it has also been annoying AF forever)

2) the fortified / of defense package spawns WAY too f***ing often, though it's not limited to T-map loot, it did seem to occur once the +5 carto glasses were fixed. now it's dropping everywhere, and far too often.

3)  No exceptional whips from  Artisan Eodon maps?     add them plz,

"2) the fortified / of defense package spawns WAY too f***ing often, though it's not limited to T-map loot, it did seem to occur once the +5 carto glasses were fixed. now it's dropping everywhere, and far too often."

This is a GOOD thing that they spawn in good quantity !

For those using them, they can be combined towards better Refinements and for those not using them, they can be sold or turned in for Clean Up Points.

Frankly, it is a GOOD thing that they spawn in good quantity, this should NOT be reduced, to my opinion.

Popps, You have no idea about these properties please stop spreading misinformation.

You want two other properties with free high resists.  Fortified or Defense will use all the points in resists and have very few desired stats.

Please research before you make up your opinions.

I will not answer your rebuttal so do not bother.

hey, at least they got to make a previously useless skill useful again.  Wnich appears to ahve been their major goal in all this...

I just realized chests are no longer spawning essences.  I'm going to miss those.

Dizzy said:

I just realized chests are no longer spawning essences.  I'm going to miss those.

It was my understanding that TER MUR Artisan Supply Treasure Chests would have ed imbuing ingredients.... including essences.....

Please stay as close to topic as possible to prevent the thread from being closed.

Dizzy said:

I just realized chests are no longer spawning essences.  I'm going to miss those.

They do, only nerfed to not spawn in 90% of the chests anymore.

Now streamlining the themes into a simpler loot system that doesn't require a spreadsheet to find stuff would be great. Oh wait, that's how it was for a decade lol. Complexity is king.