A question on Artisans' Supply Treasure Maps (Re: Imbuing and ML resources)

Has anyone who has done a good number of these particular Treasure Maps found Imbuing resources as well as Mondain's Legacy Resources in "stacks" of X resources of that given type ?

If so, have the stacks quantities been variable by your findings ? What is the range of the stack that each of these Resource can spawn as, in these particular Maps ?

Did you notice whether the quantity of the Imbuing/ML resource stack varies depending on the type of Chest (Rusty, Metal or Gold) ?

Furthermore, did you notice whether the Luck worn also matters in determining the spawn of a larger stack of these resources versus a smaller one ?

Thanks !

You start.  How many from what type chest.

I have almost exclusively done artisan supply chests in Malas. I get 3 to 4 ML ingredients with some of them stacked. Largest stack has been 2.  Switching from 280 luck to 780 luck added 1 random item.  Either a another ML ingredient, an extra recipe, shield engraver, or a mana orb.

TimSt said:

I have almost exclusively done artisan supply chests in Malas. I get 3 to 4 ML ingredients with some of them stacked. Largest stack has been 2.  Switching from 280 luck to 780 luck added 1 random item.  Either a another ML ingredient, an extra recipe, shield engraver, or a mana orb.

Because I have GM cartography so I always dig up with a gold chest.

TimSt said:

I have almost exclusively done artisan supply chests in Malas. I get 3 to 4 ML ingredients with some of them stacked. Largest stack has been 2.  Switching from 280 luck to 780 luck added 1 random item.  Either a another ML ingredient, an extra recipe, shield engraver, or a mana orb.

My guess would be the quantities are not overwhelming because treasure maps are not intended to be the primary source of those ingredients. The primary source of ML ingredients is ML peerless, the primary source of imbuing ingredients are Ter Mur creatures and the Abyss mini spawns.
Incidentally a further secondary source of both is Exodus dungeon, stealing from Zealots can give ML ingredients and essences can be found in hidden boxes.

Petra_Fyde said:

My guess would be the quantities are not overwhelming because treasure maps are not intended to be the primary source of those ingredients. The primary source of ML ingredients is ML peerless, the primary source of imbuing ingredients are Ter Mur creatures and the Abyss mini spawns.
Incidentally a further secondary source of both is Exodus dungeon, stealing from Zealots can give ML ingredients and essences can be found in hidden boxes.

While i might understand that reasoning, I find that the solution, if that was to be the reasoning, might be too drastic....

Stealing from Zealots in the Exodus Dungeon does not produce ML ingredients in any realistically usefull capacity. It takes forever to even get up to a stack of 10 of the most common ML ingredients that way....

Fighting ML Peerless and Ter Mur creatures in the Abyss mini spawns is often out of question in today's Ultima Online where, with a more reduced players' base, often is impossible for Crafters to find a group to hunt with, in order to gather a decent amount of those ingredients in order to be able to carry out their Profession in a decent capacity.

So, Artisans' Supply Treasure Chests might remain the one, and perhaps only realistic source for Crafters to be able to gather, on their own, these needed ingredients... but not as they are, currently....

But if these Mondain's Legacy and Imbuing ingredients spawn way too scarce in Artisans' Supply Treasure Chests, this will not even be a viable source good enough for Crafters....

How would they then be able to carry on with their Profession ?

Keep in mind, that most players are lamenting a VERY scarce drop rate for Treasure maps (1% I heard), on top of that, there is 5 Packages that a Map can be generated into (Mage, Assassin, Warrior, Artisan, Ranger) and Creatures who may drop a Supply Map (Level 2), often can drop also a Map of another Level (the lower Stash or higher Cache) as compared to a Supply "drop".

What I am trying to say is, that ALREADY the odds of getting the Spawn for a Supply, Artisans' Treasure Maps are VERY low, because (A) of the Low rate that Treasure Maps drop in general, (B) because it can be any of 5 Packages Maps (not necessarily an Artisans') and (C) not necessarily a Supply Treasure Map but, rather, a Stash OR Cache Treasure Map, instead.

If then, ON TOP of the already low chance to get an Artisans' Supply Treasure Map drop the Mondain's Legacy or Imbuing ingredients that were to spawn with the Treasure Chest were also so scarce to only be 1 or 2 at most in a stack, this would be TOTALLY useless to Crafters, to my opinion, as a viable source for their crafting needs.

That is why I was saying that, to my opinion, at least the more common Mondain's Legacy and Imbuing ingredients should at least come in stacks of 10, possibly more for better Treasure Chests (Gold) and with more Luck worn.

@Kyronix ; , could you please kindly consider a buffing for Mondain's Legacy and Imbuing ingredients' quantities in Supply Artisans' Treasure Chests ?

Thanks !

popps said:

TimSt said:

I have almost exclusively done artisan supply chests in Malas. I get 3 to 4 ML ingredients with some of them stacked. Largest stack has been 2.  Switching from 280 luck to 780 luck added 1 random item.  Either a another ML ingredient, an extra recipe, shield engraver, or a mana orb.

I thought it was my problem.... that ML (or Imbuing) resources were so scarce and far in between....

I thought it was perhaps a problem of the type of Chest (I get mostly rusty or metal although, even the scarce times I get a Gold I do not see any difference in the amount of ML/Imbuing resources that I can find...) or perhaps unsufficient Luck (I have about 400ish)....

But apparently, if with most always Gold Chests and up to 780 Luck you only get 1, at most 2 same ML resources in Chests I have the impression that, while Treasure Chests have been made capable to produce Legendary Artifacts, Powerscrolls and other niceties, in terms of resources needed by Crafters BY THE TONS, these much needed resources have been kept to spawn in only ridicolously low amounts....

Popps, I consistently get 3 ML resources when doing Artisan Supply chests in Malas using my Sonoma treasure hunter who has 740 luck and .  Same with my Origin treasure hunter who has 1030 luck and GM cartography, and my Balhae treasure hunter who has 600 luck and GM cartography.  I also fully expect that my Lake Austin treasure hunter who has 950 luck and GM cartography, my Atlanta treasure hunter who has 520 luck and 97 cartography, my Great Lakes treasure hunter who has 895 luck and 93 cartography, and probably also my Hokuto treasure hunter who has 529 luck and 79.9 cartography will also get 3 ML ingredient drops from Artisan Supply chests dug up in Malas and 3 essences or abyssal cloth if I can ever find Artisan Supply maps for Ter Mur.. My Arirang treasure hunter only has 62.8 cartography and 0 luck on her suit, so she can't decipher supply maps yet.

My point is that your problem with getting rusty and metal chests is most likely that your cartography skill is not high enough for you to get metal or gold chests.  The quality of the chest is based on your cartography skill.  The decreased amounts are what you see in rusty chests. 

You need 70 cartography to decipher supply maps.  What is your cartography skill when  you are actually digging up the chest?  I hope you're not stoning it off after deciphering the map and then have 0 cartography skill or a few points from the mapmaker's glasses.  That would entirely explain why you are only getting rusty or metal supply chests.  

MissE said:

You don't even get a stack of ten when you do the peerless, why should you get a large stack like that in a tmap?  Nor when you farm spawns.  Doing that would make peerless and the mini abyss spawns even less relevant.

Sadly the drop rate of facet maps (other than hoards at miasma, and low level malas maps from dark guardians) for other facets are pretty low. Other than a few scrolls there is little reason to do hoard or trove chests. The odd rare drop there is hardly making them worth doing as in 90% of them (unless you luck out on a decent bit of arm/wep loot) there is nothing else to really recommend them.  These high level maps should have all the lower level map special items in them as well in slightly larger stacks but they don't have any.

For the time and effort required, high level tmapping has been pretty much killed off unless you are after a particular alacrity, but in 2 days I have over 50 of them now so wont be long til they won't even be required. No idea how anyone could class these as a party map. Totally nerfed

"You don't even get a stack of ten when you do the peerless, why should you get a large stack like that in a tmap?  "

How about, perhaps, because it is  "Treasure" hidden by its owner, an Artisan, who put there all of his/her precious belongings (stuff related to his/her crafting profession) and, thus, ALSO his/her precious Mondain's Legacy/Imbuing Ingredients that he/she had stacked up in his/her life to protect then from being taken by enemies ?

These Artisans hiding their belongings in Treasure Chests might have been very poor if they only had 1 or 2 ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away in a Treasure Chest....

Margrette said:

popps said:

TimSt said:

I have almost exclusively done artisan supply chests in Malas. I get 3 to 4 ML ingredients with some of them stacked. Largest stack has been 2.  Switching from 280 luck to 780 luck added 1 random item.  Either a another ML ingredient, an extra recipe, shield engraver, or a mana orb.

I thought it was my problem.... that ML (or Imbuing) resources were so scarce and far in between....

I thought it was perhaps a problem of the type of Chest (I get mostly rusty or metal although, even the scarce times I get a Gold I do not see any difference in the amount of ML/Imbuing resources that I can find...) or perhaps unsufficient Luck (I have about 400ish)....

But apparently, if with most always Gold Chests and up to 780 Luck you only get 1, at most 2 same ML resources in Chests I have the impression that, while Treasure Chests have been made capable to produce Legendary Artifacts, Powerscrolls and other niceties, in terms of resources needed by Crafters BY THE TONS, these much needed resources have been kept to spawn in only ridicolously low amounts....

Popps, I consistently get 3 ML resources when doing Artisan Supply chests in Malas using my Sonoma treasure hunter who has 740 luck and .  Same with my Origin treasure hunter who has 1030 luck and GM cartography, and my Balhae treasure hunter who has 600 luck and GM cartography.  I also fully expect that my Lake Austin treasure hunter who has 950 luck and GM cartography, my Atlanta treasure hunter who has 520 luck and 97 cartography, my Great Lakes treasure hunter who has 895 luck and 93 cartography, and probably also my Hokuto treasure hunter who has 529 luck and 79.9 cartography will also get 3 ML ingredient drops from Artisan Supply chests dug up in Malas and 3 essences or abyssal cloth if I can ever find Artisan Supply maps for Ter Mur.. My Arirang treasure hunter only has 62.8 cartography and 0 luck on her suit, so she can't decipher supply maps yet.

My point is that your problem with getting rusty and metal chests is most likely that your cartography skill is not high enough for you to get metal or gold chests.  The quality of the chest is based on your cartography skill.  The decreased amounts are what you see in rusty chests. 

You need 70 cartography to decipher supply maps.  What is your cartography skill when  you are actually digging up the chest?  I hope you're not stoning it off after deciphering the map and then have 0 cartography skill or a few points from the mapmaker's glasses.  That would entirely explain why you are only getting rusty or metal supply chests.  

Frankly, I do not think that a spawn of a mere 3 Mondain's Legacy OR Imbuing ingredients is satisfactory AT ALL for Artisans' Supply Chests.

Most items, to be crafted, require at least a couple of them and in quantities like 10 of each, pretty often.

This would mean that, in order to obtain a sufficient amount of ingredients to craft anything, at LEAST some 15-20 Artisans' Supply Treasure Maps are needed to be completed PER single item crafted, if not more.....

Considering how time consuming can be getting those many Artisans' Supply Treasure Maps (because the drop rate is low, because there is 5 packages that a Map could spawn as and because a given creature could spawn not just 1 level Map, but often one of 2 Levels Maps...) and the time it would take to do them all in order to stock up the number necessary of either ML ingredients or Imbuing ingredients for the necessary crafting, and all this to just make 1 single item, to me it looks like not much viable nor efficient....

That's why I think that the amount of ML or Imbuing ingredients should be, by far, larger then a mere 3 as you have been experiencing....

ok, this time I have a question for you.
If you can't, or won't do the abyss mini-champs for essences - where are you going to get the Ter Mur maps to dig?  The vast majority of the Ter Mur maps I've had came from Abyss spawns. Fire Ants, which are a part of three abyss spawns, drop supply maps.

Petra_Fyde said:

ok, this time I have a question for you.
If you can't, or won't do the abyss mini-champs for essences - where are you going to get the Ter Mur maps to dig?  The vast majority of the Ter Mur maps I've had came from Abyss spawns. Fire Ants, which are a part of three abyss spawns, drop supply maps.

Well, there is a more imbuing ingredients as necessary, then mere Essences... while, in order to get Ter Mur Artisan's Supply Treasure Maps it might be necessary to hunt Creatures that also may have Essences, what about the "other" imbuing ingredients besides Essences that are still needed?

Having them spawn in Artisans' Ter Mur Treasure Maps in generous quantities would be of great help to crafters....

With Mondain's Legacy, yet, it is different.... as Malas Maps, especially Supply, do not need the hunting of Peerless and, yet, creatures dropping Malas Supply Maps, that I know of, do not drop any Mondain's Legacy ingredient......

Well, I can solve all this for you in one small paragraph:

It is this way because of a design decision by the developers that is not open to feedback or discussion no matter how many long winded posts of “facts” and @ developer messages you post. You are not owed an explanation or justification. 

It takes literally under 5 minutes solo to do a supply map with little difficulty, and you want it to give you stacks of 10 peerless ingredient, do you know how long it takes to collect keys and slay one peerless solo ? Look at both difficulties of event, compare , and come back to me with a good reasoning behind that. In my opinion maps are already dropping too much gold , like a free easy 45k gold under 5 minutes, no hunt monster can give you that much gold in the game right now

quickblade said:

free easy 45k gold under 5 minutes, no hunt monster can give you that much gold in the game right now

Seriously? Completing maps aren't my thing so I had no idea. But haven't we been looking for gold sinks for years to wipe some of this gold and now we're putting in high levels like this?

They should have not put ML ingredients in T Chests.

@popps ;  You never did answer my question about what your treasure hunter's  cartography skill is at the point of digging up a chest.  Do you even have cartography on your character at that point?  I think most people are getting three ML ingredients or essences.  It's kind of a mystery why you say you are only getting 1 or 2.  No one can help you without more information.  

Given how easy it is to farm the dark guardians and how easy it is to defeat the chest guardians I am satisfied with the amount of ML ingredients I am getting. They reflect the effort put in. Their amounts should not be more than if I was to go up against a peerless.

quickblade said:

It takes literally under 5 minutes solo to do a supply map with little difficulty, and you want it to give you stacks of 10 peerless ingredient, do you know how long it takes to collect keys and slay one peerless solo ? Look at both difficulties of event, compare , and come back to me with a good reasoning behind that. In my opinion maps are already dropping too much gold , like a free easy 45k gold under 5 minutes, no hunt monster can give you that much gold in the game right now

The time that needs to be looked at, is not only the time needed to find the chest and dig it up/fight the Guardians but also, the time needed to actually get it as a drop from a Monster....

And, as I said, with 5 different Packages, multiple Levels Treasure Maps that a Treasure Map dropping Creature can spawn, as well as the low drop rate for Treasure Maps that has been reported by players, the time to actually "acquire" an Artisans' Supply Treasure Map might be significative...

Margrette said:

@ popps   You never did answer my question about what your treasure hunter's  cartography skill is at the point of digging up a chest.  Do you even have cartography on your character at that point?  I think most people are getting three ML ingredients or essences.  It's kind of a mystery why you say you are only getting 1 or 2.  No one can help you without more information.  

Cartography is 100.0 but no glasses yet.... not stoning it, keeping it throughout from decoding the Map to looting the Chest. Luck is low, though, below 400....

I do am getting golds, although more rusty/metal, I was not aware though that these ingredients were set to spawn in such limited amounts (just 1 or 2, perhaps 3 but all different, hardly stacked up in more of the same kind....), I thought it was "my" problem, perhaps because I did not have glasses or much higher luck....

That's kinda saddening to me, though, that the Artisans' who hid their treasures were so poor and had so few ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away in Treasure Chests....

I mean, I hear of players having stacks of 60,000 of each ML/Imbuing ingredient but then the Crafters who hid their Treasures in Sosaria only had 1 or 2 of them to hide with their Treasure ?

Go figure....

LMAO This is beyond ridicules, you want 60K ingredients and I guess because there are players that have billions and billions of gold that every chest should have that too, and do not forget all those ubber items that some players have maybe the devs should put those in the chests also.

Bilbo said:

LMAO This is beyond ridicules, you want 60K ingredients and I guess because there are players that have billions and billions of gold that every chest should have that too, and do not forget all those ubber items that some players have maybe the devs should put those in the chests also.

Aren't they called "Treasure" Chests, afterall.... ?

I am merely saying that, considering that there is players having stacks of 60,000 ML/Imbuing ingredients, I do not see why there could not be Treasure Chests hidden by Artisans with MORE then 1 or 2 or 3 of these same ingredients in them....

I mean, ain't them "Treasures", after all ?

What kind of Artisans where those having ONLY 1 or 2 or 3 ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away as their "precious" Treasure ? Starving, poor Artisans ?

How come there is no such thing as a "fat" Artisan's Treasure Chest with a generous load of ML/Imbuing ingredients hidden away ?

Players can have stacks of 60,000 of each and every of them but Artisans who hid their Treasures away can only have 1 or 2 or 3 of these same ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away in their Treasure Chests ?

Go figure....

popps said:

Bilbo said:

LMAO This is beyond ridicules, you want 60K ingredients and I guess because there are players that have billions and billions of gold that every chest should have that too, and do not forget all those ubber items that some players have maybe the devs should put those in the chests also.

Aren't they called "Treasure" Chests, afterall.... ?

I am merely saying that, considering that there is players having stacks of 60,000 ML/Imbuing ingredients, I do not see why there could not be Treasure Chests hidden by Artisans with MORE then 1 or 2 or 3 of these same ingredients in them....

I mean, ain't them "Treasures", after all ?

What kind of Artisans where those having ONLY 1 or 2 or 3 ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away as their "precious" Treasure ? Starving, poor Artisans ?

How come there is no such thing as a "fat" Artisan's Treasure Chest with a generous load of ML/Imbuing ingredients hidden away ?

Players can have stacks of 60,000 of each and every of them but Artisans who hid their Treasures away can only have 1 or 2 or 3 of these same ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away in their Treasure Chests ?

Go figure....

You only get 8 total from Peerless.  Those split between the group. Each players gets 1 or 2.

Anyone who plays has T maps or they discarded them or did not pick them up.  The only place where maps are new is Eodon.  The only time involved is walking over to your chest of maps and putting them in your backpack.  Then doing the map.  Key gathering takes a LOT more time than T Hunting.  Even if you have a lame T hunter like mine that takes a long time to hit the spot.

LS had scores of T maps on vendors before this went live. 20K each.  They have more gold than that inside.

VS still has maps for 20k on LS.

@popps and @Bilbo let's keep the discussion civil and the thread open.

The chests have Pristine Dread Horn Heads.  Thats lame!  @Kyronix ; Can you put Halos in them also?

Pawain said:

The chests have Pristine Dread Horn Heads.  Thats lame!  @ Kyronix  Can you put Halos in them also?

MissE said:

Pawain said:

The chests have Pristine Dread Horn Heads.  Thats lame!  @ Kyronix  Can you put Halos in them also?

Agree read my comment above.  Pristine Heads were a 'rare' drop, I got 3 in 5 artisan supply chests.    DUMBING DOWN.    They may as well toss a crimmy in the supply chests too, and totally KILL the point of any peerless.  

A lot of people have complained over the years about the grind for keys and how a group may just not be feasible during certain times.

To me it seems they're listening to the players requests.

I do agree the higher maps should yield higher rewards but it's still too early to tell if there's hidden gems players haven't discovered yet.

popps said:

Margrette said:

@ popps   You never did answer my question about what your treasure hunter's  cartography skill is at the point of digging up a chest.  Do you even have cartography on your character at that point?  I think most people are getting three ML ingredients or essences.  It's kind of a mystery why you say you are only getting 1 or 2.  No one can help you without more information.  

Cartography is 100.0 but no glasses yet.... not stoning it, keeping it throughout from decoding the Map to looting the Chest. Luck is low, though, below 400....

I do am getting golds, although more rusty/metal, I was not aware though that these ingredients were set to spawn in such limited amounts (just 1 or 2, perhaps 3 but all different, hardly stacked up in more of the same kind....), I thought it was "my" problem, perhaps because I did not have glasses or much higher luck....

That's kinda saddening to me, though, that the Artisans' who hid their treasures were so poor and had so few ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away in Treasure Chests....

I mean, I hear of players having stacks of 60,000 of each ML/Imbuing ingredient but then the Crafters who hid their Treasures in Sosaria only had 1 or 2 of them to hide with their Treasure ?

Go figure....

I am still confused as to why you seem to be reporting you rarely get 3 ML ingredients from Malas Artisan Supply chests if you have 100 cartography.  

I made my t-hunter on Test Center a new suit that has 0 luck.  Then I went and dug up three Artisan Supply chests in Malas.  I used the +2 cartography glasses while digging up the first one and did not for the last two.  In all cases, her actual cartography skill was 100.  

All three chests came up as gold.  All three chests contained three ML ingredients, as well as other items.  The other resources found were 100 each of valorite ingots (2 chests) and verite ingots (1 chest).

Next, I deciphered three Malas Artisan Supply chests with 100 cartography skill.  Then I set cartography skill to 0 and dug up each chest.

All three chests came up as rusty.  All three chests contained one ML ingredient, as well as other items.  The other resources found were 100 each of copper ingots, dull copper ingots, and spined leather.

@popps, are you 100% sure that you are not taking cartography skill off before you go dig up the chests?  I am about 100% certain that is the only thing that is going to explain why you are only getting rusty chests and there is only one ML ingredient in the chests.

CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 100 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:


CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 0 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:


ALL THREE CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 100 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:


ALL THREE CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 0 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:

MissE said:

You only get EIGHT (8) bits in total doing the peerless.   Thats right only 8 and that is for the boss and spending about an hour or so gathering keys and killing the boss. 

These tmaps are actually making the whole peerless encounter useless if you are only after ingredients.  And these are LOW level maps, don't  need lockpick, don't need more than 30 remove trap, and hardly even need to have any high carto.   And for that you get 2-3 bits each chest.  I ran round yesterday and did about 10 supply artisan chests in about 40mins and ended up with 31 bits, like seriously.  These ingredients should of been put in HIGH level maps, as it is this whole tmap thing is a dumbing down of tmapping.  When  you get better rewards for low level maps and hardly anything for high level then there is a problem. 

"These tmaps are actually making the whole peerless encounter useless if you are only after ingredients. "

Margrette said:

popps said:

Margrette said:

@ popps   You never did answer my question about what your treasure hunter's  cartography skill is at the point of digging up a chest.  Do you even have cartography on your character at that point?  I think most people are getting three ML ingredients or essences.  It's kind of a mystery why you say you are only getting 1 or 2.  No one can help you without more information.  

Cartography is 100.0 but no glasses yet.... not stoning it, keeping it throughout from decoding the Map to looting the Chest. Luck is low, though, below 400....

I do am getting golds, although more rusty/metal, I was not aware though that these ingredients were set to spawn in such limited amounts (just 1 or 2, perhaps 3 but all different, hardly stacked up in more of the same kind....), I thought it was "my" problem, perhaps because I did not have glasses or much higher luck....

That's kinda saddening to me, though, that the Artisans' who hid their treasures were so poor and had so few ML/Imbuing ingredients to hide away in Treasure Chests....

I mean, I hear of players having stacks of 60,000 of each ML/Imbuing ingredient but then the Crafters who hid their Treasures in Sosaria only had 1 or 2 of them to hide with their Treasure ?

Go figure....

I am still confused as to why you seem to be reporting you rarely get 3 ML ingredients from Malas Artisan Supply chests if you have 100 cartography.  

I made my t-hunter on Test Center a new suit that has 0 luck.  Then I went and dug up three Artisan Supply chests in Malas.  I used the +2 cartography glasses while digging up the first one and did not for the last two.  In all cases, her actual cartography skill was 100.  

All three chests came up as gold.  All three chests contained three ML ingredients, as well as other items.  The other resources found were 100 each of valorite ingots (2 chests) and verite ingots (1 chest).

Next, I deciphered three Malas Artisan Supply chests with 100 cartography skill.  Then I set cartography skill to 0 and dug up each chest.

All three chests came up as rusty.  All three chests contained one ML ingredient, as well as other items.  The other resources found were 100 each of copper ingots, dull copper ingots, and spined leather.

@ popps, are you 100% sure that you are not taking cartography skill off before you go dig up the chests?  I am about 100% certain that is the only thing that is going to explain why you are only getting rusty chests and there is only one ML ingredient in the chests.

CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 100 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:


CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 0 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:


ALL THREE CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 100 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:


ALL THREE CHESTS DUG UP WITH 0 LUCK AND 0 CARTOGRAPHY SKILL:

You are expecting too much @popps. You mentioned that players have stacks of 60k ingredients and that Treasure chest should have more that 2 or 3 of these ingredients. I don't think you stop to think about things from more than one point of view. How long did it take the players to get these ingredients? I am sure many buy from others who are good at farming them. For example you want the dev team to increase the amount of ingredient in the treasure chest that are used for crafting but obiviously have not thought about what doing so would do to the market. Imagine if the dev team was to do what you wish then everyone who has a crafter would prefer to craft thes items themself insted of paying for them since it is easy to obtain the ingredients, your crafter would be out of a job. It has always been that ingredients needed to create powerful or special items are harded to come by and in my opinion that is the way it should be. If it is made easy to get these ingredients then it will no longer be worth much.  You are one of the only persons I hear complain endlessly about things that everyone else seem to know and understand. I beleive that change can be a good thing but if we were given an easy button for everything then in my opinion it would make the game less enjoyable, and what fun is that? I know there is one person who seems to want everything handed to them but I think most players prefer a challange.

Sorry for the long post. I usually skip or skim post that are this long and longer, but I could not hold it in any longer as I am rubbed the wrong way when I see long winded negative post for 1 or 2 people in paticular.

Arron said:

You are expecting too much @ popps. You mentioned that players have stacks of 60k ingredients and that Treasure chest should have more that 2 or 3 of these ingredients. I don't think you stop to think about things from more than one point of view. How long did it take the players to get these ingredients? I am sure many buy from others who are good at farming them. For example you want the dev team to increase the amount of ingredient in the treasure chest that are used for crafting but obiviously have not thought about what doing so would do to the market. Imagine if the dev team was to do what you wish then everyone who has a crafter would prefer to craft thes items themself insted of paying for them since it is easy to obtain the ingredients, your crafter would be out of a job. It has always been that ingredients needed to create powerful or special items are harded to come by and in my opinion that is the way it should be. If it is made easy to get these ingredients then it will no longer be worth much.  You are one of the only persons I hear complain endlessly about things that everyone else seem to know and understand. I beleive that change can be a good thing but if we were given an easy button for everything then in my opinion it would make the game less enjoyable, and what fun is that? I know there is one person who seems to want everything handed to them but I think most players prefer a challange.

Sorry for the long post. I usually skip or skim post that are this long and longer, but I could not hold it in any longer as I am rubbed the wrong way when I see long winded negative post for 1 or 2 people in paticular.

"How long did it take the players to get these ingredients?"

Some players may have farmed for ages the spawns, some may have spent large amounts of gold to buy them, some may have gotten them from IDOCs, and some may have just duped them over and over....

I do not understand what your point is.

Regardless whether players may have accumulated them the hard way (farming for them) or the easy way (duping them), the issue remains that, in order to craft some items coming with random properties, a LOT, but really a LOT of these ingredients might be needed.

I happen to think, that in the game there should be a way to have access to a large quantity of these reagents, if needed in a large quantity in order to be able to craft a given item with the wanted properties, without having to spend months or years to farm for them....

In my example of the Scrapper's Compendium which, EVEN IF one gets a decent one with the wanted properties after MANY tries thanking to the RNG, it STILL is nowhere near one of those Spellbooks with 50% SDI that dropped last Year at the Event....

YET, considering that ML "common" ingredients like Taint, Corruption and similar may sell like 50k-70k each on Atlantic, if one wanted to "give it a try" and make, say, "only" 10 Scrapper's Compendiums and see if at least 1 of them comes out "decent", that would mean needing some 100 Taints and 100 Corruptions....

Which, at 50k-70k each of them, would mean only in Taints and Corruptions used, some 10 to 14 millions gold.... and this, mind you, with NO guarantee that any among those 10 crafted Scrapper's Compendiums might be usable at all...... it might just be gold all wasted out.... and even if, out of a RNG miracle 1 out of 10 crafted Scrapper's Compendium came out as "decent", it would STILL be nowhere near as good as one of those +50% SDI Spellbooks which dropped last Year at the Event....

" It has always been that ingredients needed to create powerful or special items are harded to come by and in my opinion that is the way it should be."

Unfortunately, other then for very few of the "new" Doom crafting recipes, a whole lot of the craftable artifacts are no longer competitive and the Legendary Artifacts which drop on High End bosses are by far, much better then most artifacts which can be crafted....

For example, I do not think there is ANY of the Peerless craftable artifacts that is still any longer a desirable artifact to wear or use.... they have been made by far, to my opinion and, I reckon, to the opinion of many other players, obsolete by the new Legendary items which drop....

Frankly, I do not understand what the point might be, any longer, to maintain an artificial scarcity for ingredients needed to craft artifacts which are no longer good nor desirable by players because surpassed largely by the new Legendary Artifacts that drop... what for ?

The artificial scarcity to get ingredients which are necessary to craft inferior artifacts only makes the life of Crafters in UO more miserable.... not only the items that they craft are no longer good (and thus hardly sellable), but Crafters ALSO have to get through extraordinary pain in order to get a sufficient number of ingredients to craft items which then are no longer good, and definitively not as good as the Legendary Artifacts which drop from High End Bosses ?

And this should make sense ? It does not to me....

So if the Artifacts that these ingredents are used to craft are no longer viable then I dont see why you need them in large amount. This will be the last of my post on this subject. I am getting dizzy.

Every reply to the same argument extends the life of this thread.

Arron said:

So if the Artifacts that these ingredents are used to craft are no longer viable then I dont see why you need them in large amount. This will be the last of my post on this subject. I am getting dizzy.

Hopefully, to at least try to get a best "lesser" quality craftable artifact ?

It would be a way to maintain crafting as still of "some" use..... granted, nowhere near what the Legendary Artifacts that drop can offer, but at least they might permit "some" crafting to still exist...

But if the ingredients that need to be gathered, especially if in large quantities, are a pain because made artificially scarce, why then bother at all with Crafting ?

Let me make an example using, again, the Scrapper's Compendium as it's easier, given how highly dependant on the RNG it is, to get a decent one...

A normal Scrapper's Compendium comes with 3 properties, Faster Casting 1, Faster Cast Recovery 1 and Spell Damage Increase 25%.
YET, "at random", 3 more additional Properties "might" be added to those 3 like Slayer, Mana Regen, Lower Reagent Cost etc. etc.

Now, either the assortment of the properties might come out from the RNG not like the one wanted or needed for that given Template, or their intensities might not come out anywhere near as usefull or as what needed etc. etc.

Therefore, a whole lot of these craftable items might be needed to be crafted until, hopefully, at least a "decent" or "half decent" usable Scrapper's Compendium might be usable.

And each of these, to be crafted, takes, among the rest, 10 Taints and 10 Corruptions.... they easily add up to become 100s if not 1,000s to be needed before that "decent" or "half decent" Scrapper's Compendium that is usable, might be "finally" crafted....

And, as it currently is, imagine how long (or expensive) it might be to gather 100s or 1,000s of ingredients to burn away before that decent or half decent Scrapper's Compendium that was not "that" inferior to those 50% SDI Event Spellbooks was to "finally" be crafted ?

The Shattered Obelisk Invasion Spellbooks came with

Spell Damage Increase	50%
Mana Regeneration	3
Faster Casting	1
Lower Reagent Cost	10%

Considering how Spellcasters can use Slayer Talismans and the SDI for them has no CAP, one can see how these Event Spellbooks made easily the craftable Scrapper's Compendiums obsolete and useless to craft....

Unless, at least, one is able to craft one with 6 properties that are well matching for that Template and with good intensities.

Which, of course, would need to burn away 1,000s of ingredients before one such Scrapper's Compendium might be crafted....

Popps, we get it - you've made your point. You think there should be more ingredients in the chest. You're not interested in a discussion on the topic but instead, keep trying to repeat and browbeat the same diatribe. 

They're not going to change it as the number of ingredients is where they would like it to be at this time. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

popps said:

I may have explained myself wrongly...

I have been getting most of the times 1-2 ingredients, seldomly 3.

Maybe you should page a GM and ask them why you are getting so many rusty supply chests when your character has 100 cartography skill while digging up the chest. Maybe your character has a glitch of some sort.

Karyn said:

Popps, we get it - you've made your point. You think there should be more ingredients in the chest. You're not interested in a discussion on the topic but instead, keep trying to repeat and browbeat the same diatribe. 

They're not going to change it as the number of ingredients is where they would like it to be at this time. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Actually, I do am trying to discuss the topic, so much, that I am giving my reasons about "why" I think that these ingredients should be present in Treasure Chests in a larger capacity...

So far, I have not heard of any valid counter argument to those that I presented while trying to, precisely, "discuss" the topic....

popps said:

Actually, I do am trying to discuss the topic, so much, that I am giving my reasons about "why" I think that these ingredients should be present in Treasure Chests in a larger capacity...

So far, I have not heard of any valid counter argument to those that I presented while trying to, precisely, "discuss" the topic....

Restating your opinion repeatedly is not a discussion; no matter how long you make your posts to make it seem factual

So here is your position as you've stated it so far:
As a treasure hunter, I want there to be more ML ingredients in the treasure chests, so that the number of ingredients gathered more closely matches the amount needed for actual crafting.

Fantastic, we've got your goal - this is the part you keep restating. Now, let's move on to what the requirements are. What is needed, be specific, to meet that goal? More ingredients, great - how many per chest? What type of chest/level should they be in? Should they scale to the chest level?

What we don't need is 2500 hundred word vomits that keep restating your goal. Move past the what and into the how.

Here is the opposing position:
As a developer, I want to provide an alternate method for players to gather ML ingredients without lessening the value of original methods of gathering, so that we are equally supporting multiple playstyles and outlets.

Now we have the developer's goal outlined. Now we can move into their requirements.
1) Keep the level of effort roughly equal between the primary and alternate method of gathering ingredients
2) Due to the ease of gathering maps, limit the number of ingredients to slightly less than the primary method to avoid destroying the ML ingredient economy.

Even without your requirements, we can see that the two positions are directly in conflict with each other. Now as part of DISCUSSION, we can each move our positions until we find something that comes closer to meeting the developer's goals but still moves the needle slightly to address your concerns. So what is that? Keeping in mind what the developers are trying to do - not argue that they're wrong or discount the direction they've tried to take -  what tweaks specifically would help address your concerns without counteracting their position?

Let's see if you can do it in 100 words or less so people actually read it.  

@Karyn outstanding post

Karyn said:

popps said:

Actually, I do am trying to discuss the topic, so much, that I am giving my reasons about "why" I think that these ingredients should be present in Treasure Chests in a larger capacity...

So far, I have not heard of any valid counter argument to those that I presented while trying to, precisely, "discuss" the topic....

Restating your opinion repeatedly is not a discussion; no matter how long you make your posts to make it seem factual

So here is your position as you've stated it so far:
As a treasure hunter, I want there to be more ML ingredients in the treasure chests, so that the number of ingredients gathered more closely matches the amount needed for actual crafting.

Fantastic, we've got your goal - this is the part you keep restating. Now, let's move on to what the requirements are. What is needed, be specific, to meet that goal? More ingredients, great - how many per chest? What type of chest/level should they be in? Should they scale to the chest level?

What we don't need is 2500 hundred word vomits that keep restating your goal. Move past the what and into the how.

Here is the opposing position:
As a developer, I want to provide an alternate method for players to gather ML ingredients without lessening the value of original methods of gathering, so that we are equally supporting multiple playstyles and outlets.

Now we have the developer's goal outlined. Now we can move into their requirements.
1) Keep the level of effort roughly equal between the primary and alternate method of gathering ingredients
2) Due to the ease of gathering maps, limit the number of ingredients to slightly less than the primary method to avoid destroying the ML ingredient economy.

Even without your requirements, we can see that the two positions are directly in conflict with each other. Now as part of DISCUSSION, we can each move our positions until we find something that comes closer to meeting the developer's goals but still moves the needle slightly to address your concerns. So what is that? Keeping in mind what the developers are trying to do - not argue that they're wrong or discount the direction they've tried to take -  what tweaks specifically would help address your concerns without counteracting their position?

Let's see if you can do it in 100 words or less so people actually read it.  

"What is needed, be specific, to meet that goal? More ingredients, great - how many per chest? What type of chest/level should they be in? Should they scale to the chest level?"

I DO have discussed all of the above, already.... at least to my perception....

By reading my Posts (https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/29331/#Comment_29331) one can see how I have mentioned that, I was imagining as 2 to 3 per single ingredient (more ingredients' types per Chest CAN spawn) could be very fine, to my opinion, for the Artisans' Supply Chests IF, then, Artisans' Cache Chests could have them spawn in 5/6 quantities, 8/10 in Horde and 10+ in Trove Artisans' Treasure Maps for Mondain's Legacy/Imbuing Ingredients.

"As a developer, I want to provide an alternate method for players to gather ML ingredients without lessening the value of original methods of gathering, so that we are equally supporting multiple playstyles and outlets."

I think I "also" covered that.... here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/29297/#Comment_29297

Where I tried to argue that, while I understood that resoning, I thought that the current (artificial) scarcity could be too drastic....

Stealing from Exodus Zealots (for ML ingredients) gives really very poor results, too much time consuming for the quantities needed of ingredients to get anywhere, fighting for ingredients' drops, really, is more intended (this more in Peerless as in Ter Mur, though) for good quality items rather then ingredients which come more as a "bonus" loot rather then the intended loot....

Regardless, and I also addressed this in the past posts, Ultima Online has moved forward since those mechanics/Hunts were Designed and now, those Craftable Artifacts which once were powerfull and usefull, now are no longer, unfortunately....

The more recent Legendary Artifact drops have made those craftable, saved a VERY few exceptions still worthy of being crafted, to some point, obsolete and largely no longer wanted...

Therefore, frankly, I do not see "why" the spawn of ML/Imbuing ingredients in Artisans' Treasure Chests should be tied to a (artificial) scarcity of the other playstyles and outlets from which they can be gathered from, which was Designed YEARS BACK when those Craftable items were, instead, quite powerfull and usefull... and wanted to have.

In doing so, that is, KEEP the availability of these ML/Imbuing ingredients artificially scarce, for Craftables which are no longer as usefull as they were, only makes the lives of Crafters more miserable... not only they end up with Craftable Artifacts which hardly anyone wants (saved a few, very rare exceptions as I mentioned....), BUT, in order to be able to make some of them as I mentioned with my Scrapper's Compendium example in various past posts, these Crafters have to endure inexplicable (for the poor results obtained in the quality and usefullness of the Artifacts crafted) and exceptionally time consuming efforts to gather the ingredients in the quantities required to get from the RNG that one item in a thousand that, finally, has the properties and the intensities which make that item, albeit STILL not competitive with the new Legendary Artifacts (or Event Artifacts) which may drop, at LEAST usable, to some point.

It was my understanding, that I DID address all of this in my past posts, to progress the Discussion on the topic....

"Now we have the developer's goal outlined. Now we can move into their requirements.
1) Keep the level of effort roughly equal between the primary and alternate method of gathering ingredients"

As I mentioned above, I do NOT think that it would be advisable to MAINTAIN that scarcity between the primary and alternate methods of gathering those ingredients.....

This, because Ultima Online HAS CHANGED since those original, primary methods of gathering these ingredients where Designed and Conceived.

BACK THEN, Craftable Artifacts were indeed good, usable and of some power compared to Artifacts that would drop or where obtainable at Events. But now ?

Now, this is NO LONGER with the "new" Legendary Artifacts which have been progressively introduced into UO, either as drops from fighting Creatures, or from Events.

Therefore, is my argument, it would be a mistake to maintain such a scarcity by having "also" the alternative methods of gathering these ingredients be as low as the original, because it would further punish crafters who have ALREADY been hit hard by their craftable Artifacts no longer being (for the most part) of any real use, when compared to the newer Legendary Artifacts coming as drops or from Events.

And that is why I am advocating, using Artisans' Treasure Chests as a way to "ease up" a bit the now (to my viewing) depressing Crafters' life, by "upping" the quantities of these ingredients that can be gathered, so to "at least" make it possible for "some" craftable Artifacts, those which require a large number of ingredients to achieve a high number of items crafted so as to better engage the RNG to finally yield that 1 decent or half decent craftable artifact made in a thousand.

"2) Due to the ease of gathering maps, limit the number of ingredients to slightly less than the primary method to avoid destroying the ML ingredient economy."

"Ease" of Gathering Maps ?

It rather is the "other" way around, to my opinion.

And I also, already discussed this in previous Posts.

With 4 other Packages that can possibly Spawn besides Artisans, and with more then just a single Level Map which can spawn on a given Creature (not just a Supply Map), and a drop rate for Treasure Maps in general, which I understand might be as low as 1 in 100 of killed creatures, it hardly looks to me to be "that" easy to gather specific Treasure Maps that spawn ML/Imbuing ingredients....

@popps said:
With 4 other Packages that can possibly Spawn besides Artisans, and with more then just a single Level Map which can spawn on a given Creature (not just a Supply Map), and a drop rate for Treasure Maps in general, which I understand might be as low as 1 in 100 of killed creatures, it hardly looks to me to be "that" easy to gather specific Treasure Maps that spawn ML/Imbuing ingredients....

@popps, originally the essences and ML ingredients were going to be in assassin, barbarian, and warrior stash chests. Then you complained that it didn't make sense to have them in those three types of chests and they should be in the artisan chests only. The original plan had them in half of the types of chests that spawned, 3 out of 6, instead of the 1 out of 6 you argued for.

Margrette said:

@ popps said:
With 4 other Packages that can possibly Spawn besides Artisans, and with more then just a single Level Map which can spawn on a given Creature (not just a Supply Map), and a drop rate for Treasure Maps in general, which I understand might be as low as 1 in 100 of killed creatures, it hardly looks to me to be "that" easy to gather specific Treasure Maps that spawn ML/Imbuing ingredients....

@ popps, originally the essences and ML ingredients were going to be in assassin, barbarian, and warrior stash chests. Then you complained that it didn't make sense to have them in those three types of chests and they should be in the artisan chests only. The original plan had them in half of the types of chests that spawned, 3 out of 6, instead of the 1 out of 6 you argued for.

Absolutely, and I stand by that opinion....

I mean, one of the various GREAT things of this Treasure Hunting enhancement is the splitting of Treasure Chests contents' in 5 Profession packages : 

• Mage, Assassin, Warrior, Artisan, Ranger

Therefore, it now is finally possible to "target" a given Profession package Treasure Map when seeking a specific item or type of items.

Crafting ingredients, it goes without saying, to my viewing, pertain to Artisans' Treasure Chests and no others.

That said, the Mondain's Legacy and Imbuing ingredients could have been : 

1) - Be spawned in larger quantities as they do now, if limited to only Artisan's Supply Chests

2) - Be spawned in increasing quantities, if made spawnable also in Cache, Horde and Trove Artisans' Treasure Maps besides the Supply ones.

It was not necessary to have them spawn in packages other then Artisans' to have these ingredients be more available in larger quantities, it could have been possible to equally reach such a goal by increasing their spawned numbers sustantially in Artisans' Supply Chests as what they currently spawn or, have them spawn with increasing quantities "also" in Artisans' Cache, Horde and Trove Treasure Chests.

So much for that 100 words or less. You were on the right track before the edit. Your points get lost in the word vomit. 

Its obvious you just want to prove you’re right instead of trying to provide useful feedback. Instead you have fallen back on arguing the development requirements as wrong. 

So to that end, you have failed on meaningful discussion to a resolution and I am done with your post. 

popps said:

Absolutely, and I stand by that opinion....

I mean, one of the various GREAT things of this Treasure Hunting enhancement is the splitting of Treasure Chests contents' in 5 Profession packages : 

• Mage, Assassin, Warrior, Artisan, Ranger

This was one of the DUMBEST moves ever made. Little excitement if you know what you are going to get. The amount of blues is crazy. The amount of gold is insane for low chests. Hell, you can now just f'n buy what you need to craft with...

Karyn said:

So much for that 100 words or less. You were on the right track before the edit. Your points get lost in the word vomit. 

Its obvious you just want to prove you’re right instead of trying to provide useful feedback. Instead you have fallen back on arguing the development requirements as wrong. 

So to that end, you have failed on meaningful discussion to a resolution and I am done with your post. 

"Its obvious you just want to prove you’re right instead of trying to provide useful feedback."

Frankly, I do not see the difference....

In an argument debated by various parties, of course that each party tries to defend their different point of view...

I stated my point of view about which I am convinced about (otherwise I would not even bring it up...), heard the counter arguments meant at maintaining a (artificial) scarcity of ingredients replicated also in Treasure Chests so as not to "beat" that of the original way to gather these ingredients, and tried to discuss it on the basis of my argument that the original scarcity was meant when the craftable Artifacts using those ingredients were WAY better as what they are now when way better Legendary Artifacts dropping from Creatures or at Events exist in today's Ultima Online.

What is wrong with that if I may ask ?

Every chest isn't a house filling bounty of instant riches.  Rework failed. Revert back to the old system I guess. /S

popps said:

What is wrong with that if I may ask ?

Seems like you are the only one that wants more of those. No one else says there needs to be more. And as said they put them in Artisan chests per your request.  Sounds like you wish the devs didn't listen to you.

Keep on winning!

I'm pretty thrilled to be getting *any* peerless ingredients in tmaps. supply level maps are easy to rake in, and SO much faster than actually going after the peerless themselves.

These ingredients aren't really meant to be quickly available by the ton, at least now its pretty simple to grind away toward getting to that ton.

Urge said:

MissE said:

Pawain said:

The chests have Pristine Dread Horn Heads.  Thats lame!  @ Kyronix  Can you put Halos in them also?

Agree read my comment above.  Pristine Heads were a 'rare' drop, I got 3 in 5 artisan supply chests.    DUMBING DOWN.    They may as well toss a crimmy in the supply chests too, and totally KILL the point of any peerless.  

A lot of people have complained over the years about the grind for keys and how a group may just not be feasible during certain times.

To me it seems they're listening to the players requests.

I do agree the higher maps should yield higher rewards but it's still too early to tell if there's hidden gems players haven't discovered yet.

MissE said:

Pawain said:

The chests have Pristine Dread Horn Heads.  Thats lame!  @ Kyronix  Can you put Halos in them also?

Agree read my comment above.  Pristine Heads were a 'rare' drop, I got 3 in 5 artisan supply chests.    DUMBING DOWN.    They may as well toss a crimmy in the supply chests too, and totally KILL the point of any peerless. 

While @Kyronix is at it I bet many players have a hard time fighting Scalis, so pls add one-tile soul forges to level 1 maps... whatever.... RIP

After the novelty for all our new hunters wears off in a couple of weeks, it will be a dead system with either no challenge (low level maps with unique items) or no reward (high level maps missing those unique items). What a fail. GG

I'm just staying in the hopes i get @Ivenor s stuff 

JollyJade said:

After the novelty for all our new hunters wears off in a couple of weeks, it will be a dead system with either no challenge (low level maps with unique items) or no reward (high level maps missing those unique items). What a fail. GG

I'm just staying in the hopes i get @ Ivenor s stuff 

The novelty is already wearing off.  Instead of doing just t-maps I am already going back to doing blunder beacons and naturalist quests.  You can only do so many artisan supply chests a day before you want to do something else.

TimSt said:

JollyJade said:

After the novelty for all our new hunters wears off in a couple of weeks, it will be a dead system with either no challenge (low level maps with unique items) or no reward (high level maps missing those unique items). What a fail. GG

I'm just staying in the hopes i get @ Ivenor s stuff 

The novelty is already wearing off.  Instead of doing just t-maps I am already going back to doing blunder beacons and naturalist quests.  You can only do so many artisan supply chests a day before you want to do something else.

Just so sad that a pretty popular system from past Devs had to go for those 6 weeks of pom-pom waving for Kyronix.

WHA WHA WHA There is to much junk in T-Chests, Devs please fix it.
T-Chest fix with lots and lots of feedback from player base.
WHA WHA WHA There isnt any ubber loot in T-Chests, which is funny is because there really wasn't any to begin with but they did get rid of all the junk.

LMAO  What all you whiners thought the DEVs were just gonna put a bunch of ubber loot in the chests and then what you whine that the game is flooded with ubber loot and is now worthless, you people are a joke.

The DEVs actually listened to the players on a PUB and now alls you can do is whine.

This discussion has reached troll bait status and is now closed.