Perhaps the road to help repopulate Felucca might come from "killing" Ghost Cams and the likes ?

Ghost Cam usage is back to an all time high, this is true.

I would not really advise a solo player going to do a champ spawn for example, unless it is at a really quiet time. Or a shard you know to be really quiet.

It isn't just the ghost cams - Felucca itself is currently very active. We are scouting non stop ourselves, all the time I'm on, we have players scouting with stealthers, and reporting back on all the Spawns, including Roof, Exodus or Luna Mint for example - always good to know when a rival guild/target is at roof, or exodus - means we have a clear run, or we know we should be scouting.

Again, as with the 3rd party programs, it's got to the point, we are used to it, it's built into our play, you may as well embrace it.

We know where all the ghost cams are, we can chose to avoid them, or we deliberately go through them, if we are sending a message we want pvp at a certain spawn. This saves us having to shout out in general chat that we are spawning and want to be raided. The point is, we use them to our advantages, as part of our strategic thinking. If we want to avoid them, via our scouting info and knowing where other guilds are, we do, if we want to use them to be raided, we do. We rarely get it wrong.

Where does this leave blue pvmers coming from Trammel?

It's like anything, if you know the scene, the community, you will be guided better, if you don't, you will be easy pickings. Join one of the active spawning guilds to take part, be part of it, and know what is going on. Then you will have a much more entertaining game experience.

Whilst I am saying we can currenly live with 3rd party programs, and spawn cams, if the devs want to get rid of them, great of course. But personally - I would probably put my focus into upgrading PvP rewards, or giving us stronger pvp systems. You can fight a never ending eternal battle against cheating, and never really win- don't worry about that area for the moment, lets just aknowledge that is how it is. Put the effort into making the gameplay more attractive and fun, for the many players still doing it. If they are having fun and being rewarded, more will see this and join in.

By the way - one more point.

A huge reason pvmers do not stand a chance in Felucca, is they are wearing PvM suits.

PvPers are wearing PvP suits, and templates built for killing players.

Suit design could be overhauled tbh, so that it could contain enough properties to be effective in PvP and PvM - we would then need less suits, and in Felucca, you would be suited for the different scenario's you would encounter.

I get destroyed in seconds on my mage when I am in my PvM sdi suit, yet I am almost unkillable when I use my PvP suit and gear. {I personally prefer my PvM suit - it has more sdi, and mana to be casting more, whilst the PvP suit is more limited, but has massive survival and regen abilities}.

Also @popps when I die it takes more than a few seconds to get rezed and get to my body. Are you saying that if I die I lose my body and the use of that character? Because you say if after 2 seconds that charcter should be logged out or blocked in some way while a ghost. Also I believe if anyone has played UO for even a short time knows that if you go to fel all bets are off. Let the Reds have their Power Scrolls Trammies have so much, and they deserve some bright sopts too.In other words if you don't which to take the chance of getting killed then don't go to fel. If you need Power Scrolls then work the many spawns of bosses and raise the gold and buy it from the reds. 

Cookie said:

Ghost Cam usage is back to an all time high, this is true.

I would not really advise a solo player going to do a champ spawn for example, unless it is at a really quiet time. Or a shard you know to be really quiet.

It isn't just the ghost cams - Felucca itself is currently very active. We are scouting non stop ourselves, all the time I'm on, we have players scouting with stealthers, and reporting back on all the Spawns, including Roof, Exodus or Luna Mint for example - always good to know when a rival guild/target is at roof, or exodus - means we have a clear run, or we know we should be scouting.

Again, as with the 3rd party programs, it's got to the point, we are used to it, it's built into our play, you may as well embrace it.

We know where all the ghost cams are, we can chose to avoid them, or we deliberately go through them, if we are sending a message we want pvp at a certain spawn. This saves us having to shout out in general chat that we are spawning and want to be raided. The point is, we use them to our advantages, as part of our strategic thinking. If we want to avoid them, via our scouting info and knowing where other guilds are, we do, if we want to use them to be raided, we do. We rarely get it wrong.

Where does this leave blue pvmers coming from Trammel?

It's like anything, if you know the scene, the community, you will be guided better, if you don't, you will be easy pickings. Join one of the active spawning guilds to take part, be part of it, and know what is going on. Then you will have a much more entertaining game experience.

Whilst I am saying we can currenly live with 3rd party programs, and spawn cams, if the devs want to get rid of them, great of course. But personally - I would probably put my focus into upgrading PvP rewards, or giving us stronger pvp systems. You can fight a never ending eternal battle against cheating, and never really win- don't worry about that area for the moment, lets just aknowledge that is how it is. Put the effort into making the gameplay more attractive and fun, for the many players still doing it. If they are having fun and being rewarded, more will see this and join in.

I have no problem whatsoever with PvPers actually taking THEIR TIME playing in the game to Scout with THEIR character the areas.

It is their time, their choice of how to use it in Ultima Online.

But using free, EJ Accounts a go-go as AFK Ghost Cams or Scripted Stealthing Characters to report what is going on in some area to THEN, and only THEN intervene with their PvP character ?

That NO.

This is clear AFK playing and, I would add, it HURTS Felucca density of population, overall because as soon as PvM players realize that they do not have a chance to NOT get spotted while getting into Felucca, WHY BOTHER?

This is why I am saying that, if the Developers are interested to bring some new life into Felucca, the VERY FIRST thing to approach is the ability for PvPers and their Guilds to have scripted Monitoring Cameras which they can use while doing ELSE and who will ring a bell requiring their attention only when activity is required in the area.

They want to Scout locations in Felucca ?

Fine, but they should use THEIR character and playing time on a paying account.

This way, at least, PvM players could "hope" not to get spotted because there is only "so much" Area that PvPers could monitor ACTIVELY in their playing time and using THEIR character AND paying account.

And, therefore, this "might" prompt more PvM players to perhaps want to try adventure in Felucca more.

That is at least the way I see it.

Cookie said:

By the way - one more point.

A huge reason pvmers do not stand a chance in Felucca, is they are wearing PvM suits.

PvPers are wearing PvP suits, and templates built for killing players.

Suit design could be overhauled tbh, so that it could contain enough properties to be effective in PvP and PvM - we would then need less suits, and in Felucca, you would be suited for the different scenario's you would encounter.

I get destroyed in seconds on my mage when I am in my PvM sdi suit, yet I am almost unkillable when I use my PvP suit and gear. {I personally prefer my PvM suit - it has more sdi, and mana to be casting more, whilst the PvP suit is more limited, but has massive survival and regen abilities}.

I think it is too late now.

Not only Players who have trained themselves up for years into PvP of course have better skills at that as many PvMers, but they ALSO, thanking to the Monopoly and control of Powerscrolls, have had access to a wealth which only few PvMers may have at their disposal and this buys them, of course, the best items there are which, in an itemized game as UO is, comprise a LOT of the end result of winning or losing a fight....

It would be necessary to start on a clean slate, with these new items good for both PvP and PvM be easily accessible to ALL players where wealth would not matter in the ability to obtain them.

At that point, "perhaps" with same suits and gear PvM players "might" also decide to train themselves up in PvP and get into Felucca to face PvPers though, I am not sure of what the end results would be, most often....

I think it is too late now, too many Years have gone by and the split between PvM and PvP gameplays have been enduring for too long thus having 2 entirely "split up" types of gameplays.

Sure, it would be great if they could meet somewhere, I just am not sure how and where they could meet in a way that was to put them on an EQUAL FOOTING.....

Arron said:

Also @ popps when I die it takes more than a few seconds to get rezed and get to my body. Are you saying that if I die I lose my body and the use of that character? Because you say if after 2 seconds that charcter should be logged out or blocked in some way while a ghost. Also I believe if anyone has played UO for even a short time knows that if you go to fel all bets are off. Let the Reds have their Power Scrolls Trammies have so much, and they deserve some bright sopts too.In other words if you don't which to take the chance of getting killed then don't go to fel. If you need Power Scrolls then work the many spawns of bosses and raise the gold and buy it from the reds. 

As I said, it was food for thinking....

My point being, that "if" Broadsword wants Felucca to get more populated and, thus, to think up a way to have more PvM players WANT to get into Felucca, then I think that the AFK ways to "monitor" areas in Felucca, be it with Ghost Cams or Hidden, Stealthing Characters perhaps scripted in their Scouting routines, should GO AWAY, in whatever way would solidly make them go away.

Besides, it REALLY IS, at least to my viewing, unfair advantage....

A PvPers or a Guild of PvPers can monitor, using free EJ Accounts a vast Area, even vaster if using scripted accounts having Scouting Routines and reporting to their master when they notice any change in the Spawn and all of this, with the actual live player doing else, whether in UO or in real life and intervening only when the Monitoring character detects anything worthy of being reported.

I imagine that AFK gameplay, worse if scripted, may be already against UO's TOS.

It is bad for Felucca as of course it does not leave a chance to PvM players "thinking" to get into it and, as a result, of course it leaves Felucca deserted.....

So, that's why I am saying that the ability to Monitor areas through Ghost Cams or Hidden/Stealthing characters, perhaps even scripted with Scouting Routines, should go away.

"Let the Reds have their Power Scrolls Trammies have so much, and they deserve some bright sopts too.In other words if you don't which to take the chance of getting killed then don't go to fel. If you need Power Scrolls then work the many spawns of bosses and raise the gold and buy it from the reds. "

Because PvPers do not have, for the most part, ALSO their PvM character AND hunt their Trammel items ON THEIR OWN thus, not needing to purchase from PvMers ?

While for Powerscrolls they have EXCLUSIVITY on their Monopoly and, thus, the abilty to set prices for them as high as they may wish, for PvM items that is NOT the same....

And this, clearly, because PvPers' players can ALSO well have PvM characters and use them to get their PvM items THEMSELVES without needing to purchase them from PvMers...

This, of course, inevitably reduces the ability for PvM players to be able to raise gold through hunting PvM items because of the much reduced request (since PvPers CAN hunt them on their own, if they wish so) and, as a consequence, they remain at a disadvantage when it comes to being able to afford the outrageous Powerscrolls prices asked because of their Monopoly due to their exclusivity in Felucca.

It is, at least to my viewing, the source of a great inbalance which may affect some players' desire to play Ultima Online....

This, because since the PvM items they can hunt fetch less, as compared to the TIME INVESTED to fetch Powerscrolls, they have to grind MORE as compared to a PvPer when it comes to Powerscrolls and this, coupled with their lower price, may "burn out" some players after a while who may have enough of so much grinding in order to be then able to afford those Powerscrolls prices.

And who loses at that point ?

Ultima Online that loses players' base....

Personally, I think it a VERY bad and inbalancing system because it screws up the economy inflating it beyond reason and forces PvM players into absurd grinds to then afford to purchase those Powerscrolls which PvP players can get in no time and with little effort.

It takes about half an hour to get 12 scrolls with Protection.

Compare what a PvMer can get, in terms of equivalent "UO wealth" in that same time frame...

Of course that then some player may get alienated from playing UO for too much grinding....

That is at least the way I see it.

Everyone can go to any spawn if they wish to. Doing a spawn in Fel or Tram does not guarantee that you will get a drop. It is the same for the red player as well as the blue players. If people wanted to get power scrolls they could get a group together and do a spawn and hold it if they get enough people. I know it may be difficult but it is not impossible. Why not start a guild of PVM'ers and try doing it yourself and see how it goes since it is something you seem to desire greatly. Don't just talk about it or wait for someone else to do something about it. Be proactive. As I stated most people who want to do the fel spawns do but with the understanding that they could be attacked at anytime. It lends some excitement to the game. Also yes it is true that there are many red players with blue characters who do the tram spawns to get certain items, but like i said there is no guarentee that they willl get it, plus the times they are doing tram spawns means a chance for you to do fel spawns.  <span></span>

Arron said:

Everyone can go to any spawn if they wish to. Doing a spawn in Fel or Tram does not guarantee that you will get a drop. It is the same for the red player as well as the blue players. If people wanted to get power scrolls they could get a group together and do a spawn and hold it if they get enough people. I know it may be difficult but it is not impossible. Why not start a guild of PVM'ers and try doing it yourself and see how it goes since it is something you seem to desire greatly. Don't just talk about it or wait for someone else to do something about it. Be proactive. As I stated most people who want to do the fel spawns do but with the understanding that they could be attacked at anytime. It lends some excitement to the game. Also yes it is true that there are many red players with blue characters who do the tram spawns to get certain items, but like i said there is no guarentee that they willl get it, plus the times they are doing tram spawns means a chance for you to do fel spawns.  <span></span>

It is easier said then done.

It has been over a month now that I am back after years away, and I have been trying to find someone to go do Exodus with and only recently, after I posted a looking for groups I got told that some guild might be going to an an Event for it sometimes....

Unfortunately, it ain't like it used to be to find fellow players to do hunts with and when it comes to Felucca and Champ Spawns it gets even harder because as soon as a PvM Guild tries to do it it goes under Focus of PvP groups and it magnetizes an unusual higher number of PvPers going to address it....

Besides, I understand from talking to fellow players that it has been tried on some Shards several times over the course of time but it has never worked.

So, it easy nice talking but it is only talking, i am much afraid.... PvPers, I learned, simply do not WANT to let go their Powerscrolls' Monopoly and every attempt by PvM groups of players to try it inevitably gets addressed and countered.

And, I have been trying to argue, this Monopoly happens to be, is my thinking, BAD for Ultima Online as a whole because if further causes and fosters an outrageous inflation which, as a consequence, causes unusual and alienating grinding in many players out of the very selected group of those controlling the Poiwerscrolls availability.

Alienating grinding, which, in some players having enough of it, causes their quitting playing to Ultima Online and, therefore, worsens its shrinking of the players' base.

What might be good for PvPers, I think, happens to be bad for Ultima Online as a game and I think it should therefore be addressed for the better sake of Ultima Online.

That is at least how I see it.

Yeah it's the way you see it from your perspective.

Pvp players.... If you can even label them all as a group like that largely don't want powers scrolls to monopolize and make gold.  More so that it's one of the few things that brings conflict to fel other that yew shenanigans and VvV towns.

Some "pvpers" just want to kill and grief, same goes for "pvmers" that scam in Luna, group labels suck and rarely account for their members.

Players imo need to realize if they want powerscrolls that badly, they might need to fight for them.  If they're not worth fighting for then they aren't that valuable, are they?

I do it all the time, sometimes just me, sometimes with some haven newbies, lots of grey robes.  It makes getting them all that much sweeter.  If that emergent adventure isn't what you're after then I don't know why ultima is where you landed.  Might be better of selling uo store tokens and buying scrolls if that's all you're after perhaps.

Also... To the ones complaint about all those ghosts and wraiths.  Have you ever tried just talking to them?  Not all of them are afk and some are great people and might actually help you, just throwing that out there from personal experience.

That said scripting is annoying, but it's been here since the beginning.  Meh

Block EJ Accounts from the champ spawns that way they are at least paying for those cams.

Just a couple observations about this discussion.

• The premiss is to make it easer for me a PvMer get in and out of Fel without being spotted or interacting with PvPers. If I get in and out without you knowing why would you care? Thats not repopulating Fel.
• The entire thread reads as an argument on how to get more mugging victims into your neighbourhood.
• Very little if anything about making PvP enjoyable for me. Just the usual if I want PS I have to.
• And don't kid yourselves grinding for hours to rase gold for a PS or $20 to a web site. You really think there is a choice?

I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.

Tim said:

I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.

It's easy to understand, but it translates to basically not wanting to play with the other kids in the sandbox.  It's not easy to respond to other than "well buy your own sandbox".  It's less vindictive than I think you are imagining.  

My point the deduction was more about getting more victims to come then "repopulating" Fel. If that is what you want come up with ways to make PvP fun. Not just "well you have to". Otherwise I and most players will just stay away. 

I was just talking to an old time player about his coming back. He said he use to go about just doing his thing but if he got jumped it was "well lets get to it". You tell me does a player with that attitude have a chance? Would he in anyway enjoy the experience? As someone else said here he has his PvP gear and is dead meat in his PvM gear. 

A game is only fun if you have a chance of winning. As it stands as was pointed here without spending more time than the average player is willing to he has no chance of winning. Not to mention learning what 3rd party programs to use, joining a guild whether he wants to or not and investing in gear that has no other use. 

If that is your thing good for you but don't expect it of the average player.

Here is the funny thing about every one of these threads is every time it is brought up about power scrolls and fel you hear the same thing from every fellie but yet they all swear up and down that they need no incentives to PvP and if in fact that were the case then they would have no reason to complain about changes to fel to make it easier for PvMers to get PSs.  Bullies/fellies will always be bullies/fellies and do not want their playground messed with is the bottom line.

Back to your main topic. Why are ghosts ever invisible to players?

Just make it so that ghosts cannot see the living unless they can be seen as well. Ghost cams are very real and are definitely hurting the game as a whole and should be dealt with immediately.

We need to get over the idea that there will ever be "life" in fel ever again. If we get rid of the ghost cams we may see more people doing champs, but overall, most PvM players aren't going to do spawns anyway. 

Tim said:

Just a couple observations about this discussion.

• The premiss is to make it easer for me a PvMer get in and out of Fel without being spotted or interacting with PvPers. If I get in and out without you knowing why would you care? Thats not repopulating Fel.
• The entire thread reads as an argument on how to get more mugging victims into your neighbourhood.
• Very little if anything about making PvP enjoyable for me. Just the usual if I want PS I have to.
• And don't kid yourselves grinding for hours to rase gold for a PS or $20 to a web site. You really think there is a choice?

I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.

Isn't it funny how you read someones post and criticize it to hell and back, but when it's YOUR post, it's supposed to be taken seriously and given full merit...funny how that works eh Tim ?

If the literal ghost cams in champ spawns are the problem, not the stealthing wraiths or the people watching entrances... Then fix exorcism might be a solution?

WornOutYourTool said:

Yeah it's the way you see it from your perspective.

Pvp players.... If you can even label them all as a group like that largely don't want powers scrolls to monopolize and make gold.  More so that it's one of the few things that brings conflict to fel other that yew shenanigans and VvV towns.

Some "pvpers" just want to kill and grief, same goes for "pvmers" that scam in Luna, group labels suck and rarely account for their members.

Players imo need to realize if they want powerscrolls that badly, they might need to fight for them.  If they're not worth fighting for then they aren't that valuable, are they?

I do it all the time, sometimes just me, sometimes with some haven newbies, lots of grey robes.  It makes getting them all that much sweeter.  If that emergent adventure isn't what you're after then I don't know why ultima is where you landed.  Might be better of selling uo store tokens and buying scrolls if that's all you're after perhaps.

Also... To the ones complaint about all those ghosts and wraiths.  Have you ever tried just talking to them?  Not all of them are afk and some are great people and might actually help you, just throwing that out there from personal experience.

That said scripting is annoying, but it's been here since the beginning.  Meh

"Pvp players.... If you can even label them all as a group like that largely don't want powers scrolls to monopolize and make gold.  "

But that is what has happened.... unfortunately.....

It has become a Monopoly held by a few players but affecting many others as I have been trying to explain.

And since an inflated economy brings prices up the roof and beyond, a Monopoly on Powerscrolls enables a few players with only a little investment of time (it takes 20 to 30 minutes to do a Spawn and collect 6+6 = 12 scrolls) they get far more wealth as a PvM player can ever put together in PvM facets during the same time.

Worse, EVEN IF that PvM players goes through extensive and alienating grinding to get that 1 good drop to then sell to make the gold to then afford the inflated Powerscrolls prices, chances are, that he/she will have a harder time to find a buyer since PvPers can ALSO have PvM characters and get their PvM items ON THEIR OWN, with no need to purchase them from PvM players....

And this, as I have been trying to explain, causes an inbalance with a larger chunk of players, the PvM players having to cope with extensive grinds in order to put together the gold to then afford those outtrageously priced Powerscrolls.... some players stand it, some others don't and what might they then do ?

Quit playing UO for getting burnt out from too excessive grind gamaplay....

And, I imagine, to loose player base does not help the well being of Ultima Online, does it ?

WornOutYourTool said:

Tim said:

I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.

It's easy to understand, but it translates to basically not wanting to play with the other kids in the sandbox.  It's not easy to respond to other than "well buy your own sandbox".  It's less vindictive than I think you are imagining.  

There can be many reasons for a player not wanting to deal with PvP....

Some dislike the drama, chest bumping and chat talking that at times might come with it, some have a policy of not wanting to use cheats or hacks but, when meeting "some" PvPers, they get won because the other uses cheats or hacks and simply, choose not to deal with the issue althougether by giving up PvPing, some others just dislike the idea of fighting another human being etc. etc. etc.

There can be many reasons for not wanting to deal with PvP and different players may have different personal reasons.

Stinky_Pete said:

Just make it so that ghosts cannot see the living unless they can be seen as well. Ghost cams are very real and are definitely hurting the game as a whole and should be dealt with immediately.

We need to get over the idea that there will ever be "life" in fel ever again. If we get rid of the ghost cams we may see more people doing champs, but overall, most PvM players aren't going to do spawns anyway. 

"Just make it so that ghosts cannot see the living unless they can be seen as well."

I am afraid that it would not be enough because then Ghosts could detect the presence of another player in the area, even if not seeing their character, by seeing NPCs dropping dead all around the place.... clearly, someone (a character), even if not seen, is there affecting and interacting the spawn and the Ghost Cam would alert the PvP Master to intervene and come to the sight.

It would be necessary for the Ghost, as I said in my OP, to not be able to see ANYTHING but the Land and, of course, Wandering Healers for a res.

But then something should also be done for Characters not as Ghost and yet staying hidden, stealthing and thus being used via Scripts to Monitor an Area and warn the PvP Master in case they detect another players' presence in the Area.... as I mentioned in the OP.

WornOutYourTool said:

If the literal ghost cams in champ spawns are the problem, not the stealthing wraiths or the people watching entrances... Then fix exorcism might be a solution?

As I said, if the whatever character Scouting an Area is doing it ON THEIR PLAYING TIME (that is, not a character being scripted for Scouting) AND using a PAYING ACCOUNT, not a free, EJ Account then I have not a problem.

It is their playing time and their spent subscription money and if they want to spend BOTH of them sitting at a Dungeon's Entrance door then be it.

I start to have problems when this can be done with "free" EJ Accounts and, worse, even AFK because with Scouting Scripts AND, even worser, using multiple of them at once....

WornOutYourTool said:

If the literal ghost cams in champ spawns are the problem, not the stealthing wraiths or the people watching entrances... Then fix exorcism might be a solution?

Because actual ghosts (like were used back in the day) aren't the issue.  I believe there's a range at which they can't be booted from a dungeon, but I'm likely remembering wrong.  Stealth'd characters in wraith form are much harder to detect - you need an AoE spell and the ability to flag on them (since most players pvp on blues these days, that gets taken advantage of.)  Since there's no push through message, you never know they're around unless they get revealed (I've seen it a few times, but the guy goes back into hiding)

drcossack said:

WornOutYourTool said:

If the literal ghost cams in champ spawns are the problem, not the stealthing wraiths or the people watching entrances... Then fix exorcism might be a solution?

Because actual ghosts (like were used back in the day) aren't the issue.  I believe there's a range at which they can't be booted from a dungeon, but I'm likely remembering wrong.  Stealth'd characters in wraith form are much harder to detect - you need an AoE spell and the ability to flag on them (since most players pvp on blues these days, that gets taken advantage of.)  Since there's no push through message, you never know they're around unless they get revealed (I've seen it a few times, but the guy goes back into hiding)

Thanks was wondering which ones they are actually talking about.

Bilbo said:

Block EJ Accounts from the champ spawns that way they are at least paying for those cams.

I've seen them set up at the entrances too. The most popular spawns are legacy dungeons that anyone can get to using a corrupted portal. There's only 3 ways into T2A (legit forgot)?

From my standpoint the only options would be to boot inactive characters to a shrine after x time and auto boot ghosts upon login after x time. You could fix exorcism but that would be heavily abused in fights.

You people are fully aware this team loves them some grindy quests. Let's not push it too far.

Urge said:

Bilbo said:

Block EJ Accounts from the champ spawns that way they are at least paying for those cams.

I've seen them set up at the entrances too. The most popular spawns are legacy dungeons that anyone can get to using a corrupted portal. There's only 3 ways into T2A (legit forgot)?

From my standpoint the only options would be to boot inactive characters to a shrine after x time and auto boot ghosts upon login after x time. You could fix exorcism but that would be heavily abused in fights.

You people are fully aware this team loves them some grindy quests. Let's not push it too far.

There's a lot more entrances to lost lands, people tend to use just three.  And the inactivity boot won't work, very simple to work around

There is no monopoly on champs spawns. Either work them or dont. Your not going to be raided everytime you do a spawn. Learn to be quick, prepared, and smart about it. Ghosts as camps are useless. The instances of actual spawn cams are stealthers. Otherwise people do scout spawns as stealthers. No one in uo spawns in complete safety.  This thread is just crocodile tears from players whose only common sense is to say "all kill"

Urge said:

Bilbo said:

Block EJ Accounts from the champ spawns that way they are at least paying for those cams.

I've seen them set up at the entrances too. The most popular spawns are legacy dungeons that anyone can get to using a corrupted portal. There's only 3 ways into T2A (legit forgot)?

From my standpoint the only options would be to boot inactive characters to a shrine after x time and auto boot ghosts upon login after x time. You could fix exorcism but that would be heavily abused in fights.

You people are fully aware this team loves them some grindy quests. Let's not push it too far.

there is atleast 8 entrances into T2A.

Ive posted about this issue before and it seems the devs don't care.  I even sent in a email catching a ghost cam in the act of spamming the script info over their head when they died to prove it was a script.  

Simplest solution is to make every dungeon area completely be considered champion areas, also include all entrances and exits from dungeons as well as T2A.  Then after they are found and die they would get booted to shrines in 7 minutes.  Make the scripters have to be on 24/7 to res and replace them and they'll stop using them cause itll get annoying to non stop res them.

Simple and elegant solution would be to make it so ghosts cant see other players unless they are visible in war mode.  Hidden bots can be detected revealed and killed rendering them useless, though if they are showing at least everyone knows they are being watched and you can makeba decision on how you want to proceed.  

Garth_Grey said:

Tim said:

Just a couple observations about this discussion.

• The premiss is to make it easer for me a PvMer get in and out of Fel without being spotted or interacting with PvPers. If I get in and out without you knowing why would you care? Thats not repopulating Fel.
• The entire thread reads as an argument on how to get more mugging victims into your neighbourhood.
• Very little if anything about making PvP enjoyable for me. Just the usual if I want PS I have to.
• And don't kid yourselves grinding for hours to rase gold for a PS or $20 to a web site. You really think there is a choice?

I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.

Isn't it funny how you read someones post and criticize it to hell and back, but when it's YOUR post, it's supposed to be taken seriously and given full merit...funny how that works eh Tim ?

Hows it working for you?

It was a serious post trying to point out a solution might help the PvP community but even it you solve the problem it will not bring players to Fel. The ones who find the chance of being mugged and losing a night of play for nothing entertaining are already doing it. Those like me who don't won't start just because the odds of getting away with it got better.

Some things that might change that are 

• make Power Scrolls blessed 
• When you are the target of and attack all you items are considered "Blessed" for the period of that combat 
• If attacked and killed you have the choice of resection (with all you gear & Loot) in Tram.

Any or all of those might make me willing to be your target but I'm not promising anything.

Outside of the PvP community "ghost cams" are not really an issue.  I don't care if the PKer found me by ghost cam, a cheat program or fully legal scouting. All that maters is he found me and I don't have a chance against a full up PvP template. Needless to say thats not my idea of a fun night.

Tim said:

Garth_Grey said:

Tim said:

Just a couple observations about this discussion.

• The premiss is to make it easer for me a PvMer get in and out of Fel without being spotted or interacting with PvPers. If I get in and out without you knowing why would you care? Thats not repopulating Fel.
• The entire thread reads as an argument on how to get more mugging victims into your neighbourhood.
• Very little if anything about making PvP enjoyable for me. Just the usual if I want PS I have to.
• And don't kid yourselves grinding for hours to rase gold for a PS or $20 to a web site. You really think there is a choice?

I could go on but if you don't get we don't want to PvP why bother.

Isn't it funny how you read someones post and criticize it to hell and back, but when it's YOUR post, it's supposed to be taken seriously and given full merit...funny how that works eh Tim ?

Outside of the PvP community "ghost cams" are not really an issue.  I don't care if the PKer found me by ghost cam, a cheat program or fully legal scouting. All that maters is he found me and I don't have a chance against a full up PvP template. Needless to say thats not my idea of a fun night.

AtomicBetty said:

But I just wanted to say can you imagine the outcry players would have if champion spawns were in trammel and players were ghost camming those to roll in last minute for scrolls? That would be a glorious meltdown. (sorry off topic but your post made me think of it)

Happens now.
It's not really a problem other then the "gold fountain". If he shows up early enough to help with the boss he just has bad manners. If he shows up just at the end he doesn't get looting rights. Either way he really doesn't change what you get by that much.

No one owns a spawn.

oh sorry I meant if powerscrolls dropped from trammel champion spawns.

 AtomicBetty said:

oh sorry I meant if powerscrolls dropped from trammel champion spawns.

Same answer. 
Though I'm not sure about the mechanics of PS drop. Is it a set number per boss all dropped at the end? I had thought they were dropped randomly as the spawn ran through its levels like the pinks in trammel.

— For the record, they changed things awhile back. If you die in T2A, you’re teleported to a shrine if you don’t get res’d within a certain period of time. And if you have a hidden, alive toon in T2A and time out you’re teleported to a shrine immediately upon logging back in.

I am presuming this was all done in an attempt to prevent ghost cams at spawn alters and dungeon entrances, but it doesn’t work as intended.

Hidden, alive toons just need to set up macros to perform an unrevealable action (like opening and closing a spellbook or runebook) every few minutes - and then they never time out.

I’m not sure what the people who leave actual ghosts do to not get teleported to a shrine ... you’d have to ask a PvPer who knows how that works for the answer.

I like the idea of Ghosts not seeing others unless they speak.  They would be able to see others for ten minutes after death and then their live world vision depletes unless they are speaking in a effort to reach the living world.

Not being a PvP I really can't think of why Ghosts players are invisible at any time. Unless someone has a scenario where an invisible ghost is a valid play style wouldn't a simple solution to that part of your problem is just make them always visible?

Kick EJ accounts out of Fel, problem solved.

@Tim, we don't want or need you in Felucca.

We are populated enough, and having fun with our more fun PvP playstyle.

If you want to come for the fun, come, if you don't, don't. Don't whine about us having fun, and don't attempt to change the entire game just for your benefit.

I'd guess that currently Felucca is more populated than Trammel. And I'd prefer it if certain players stayed in Trammel to be fair. Or maybe you are the type that just winds everyone up so much, we just all instantly PK you on sight, I can believe that.

Tim said:

Hows it working for you?

It was a serious post trying to point out a solution might help the PvP community but even it you solve the problem it will not bring players to Fel. The ones who find the chance of being mugged and losing a night of play for nothing entertaining are already doing it. Those like me who don't won't start just because the odds of getting away with it got better.

Some things that might change that are 

• make Power Scrolls blessed 
• When you are the target of and attack all you items are considered "Blessed" for the period of that combat 
• If attacked and killed you have the choice of resection (with all you gear & Loot) in Tram.

Any or all of those might make me willing to be your target but I'm not promising anything.

Outside of the PvP community "ghost cams" are not really an issue.  I don't care if the PKer found me by ghost cam, a cheat program or fully legal scouting. All that maters is he found me and I don't have a chance against a full up PvP template. Needless to say thats not my idea of a fun night.

My response related to this post by the way, meant to quote it.

Felucca does not need or want to change anything to accommodate you Tim.

Cookie said:

@ Tim, we don't want or need you in Felucca.

We are populated enough, and having fun with our more fun PvP playstyle.

If you want to come for the fun, come, if you don't, don't. Don't whine about us having fun, and don't attempt to change the entire game just for your benefit.

I'd guess that currently Felucca is more populated than Trammel. And I'd prefer it if certain players stayed in Trammel to be fair. Or maybe you are the type that just winds everyone up so much, we just all instantly PK you on sight, I can believe that.

I was thinking this discussion belonged in the PvP category even though the popps said he was looking to repopulated Fel. But I guess if it is fully populated enjoy your game.

Tim said:

I was thinking this discussion belonged in the PvP category even though the popps said he was looking to repopulated Fel. But I guess if it is fully populated enjoy your game.

I am enjoying the game thanks, so is everyone else.

The discussion was titled how to repopulate Felucca, from someone who does not really know or play in Felucca by the sounds of it - he seems to throw out a lot of questions on stuff he has heard from all over the shop, but he did also add in a legitimate point about Ghost Cams in the title - which is relevant right now, to which I gave a detailed and considered response.

The topic was primarily about ghost cams, not trying to attract victims or sheep, or other such emotional terminology you keep swinging every such topic like this into, then trying to get powerscrolls blessed, or put into Trammel. I'm not interested in victims or sheep, and would prefer if you stayed out of the conversation, - I am not interested in you, or trying to bring you to Felucca - lets be very clear about this.

Pawain said:

I like the idea of Ghosts not seeing others unless they speak.  They would be able to see others for ten minutes after death and then their live world vision depletes unless they are speaking in a effort to reach the living world.

As I said, "only" not seeing others would not be enough since they could still "assume" that other players are in the are by seeing changes to the spawn like monsters dropping dead etc. etc.

So, it would be necessary for Ghosts to not see ANY character at all, be them PCs or NPCs alike.

They could only see the terrain or Wandering healers, of course, necessary for ressing issues....

But then also the scripted, hidden/stealthing "free EJ characters Cameras should be addressed....

Addressing only Ghosts would not solve the issue of "Cameras" if then free, EJ hidden/stealthing characters could still be used as Cameras to report the presence of players in the Area...

Cookie said:

Tim said:

I was thinking this discussion belonged in the PvP category even though the popps said he was looking to repopulated Fel. But I guess if it is fully populated enjoy your game.

I am enjoying the game thanks, so is everyone else.

The discussion was titled how to repopulate Felucca, from someone who does not really know or play in Felucca by the sounds of it - he seems to throw out a lot of questions on stuff he has heard from all over the shop, but he did also add in a legitimate point about Ghost Cams in the title - which is relevant right now, to which I gave a detailed and considered response.

The topic was primarily about ghost cams, not trying to attract victims or sheep, or other such emotional terminology you keep swinging every such topic like this into, then trying to get powerscrolls blessed, or put into Trammel. I'm not interested in victims or sheep, and would prefer if you stayed out of the conversation, - I am not interested in you, or trying to bring you to Felucca - lets be very clear about this.

Well, my understanding is that there IS an issue about Felucca and a scarcity of players' population... so much that, I often hear pleas to the Developers to make changes, additions, corrections to Ultima Online so as to then see "more" players go to Felucca....

Now, instead, I hear that Felucca is fine as it is and that there is no need to help it see more players ?

So, why should the Developers then worry about making any change that would make it see more players wanting to go there ?

Perhaps, the density of population of Felucca is a "personal" taste type of thing.... to some it might look deserted and underpopulated, to some others fine as it is, and to some others perhaps even too much populated ?

So who's judgement would be the right one, then ?

Those who see it deserted, those who see it fine as it is, or those who perhaps think it too much "crowded", even ?

You can't 'repopulate' fel.  You can't force people to go there, it has to be a voluntary action
Fel is essentially a facet for pvpers; they are a minority, though exceedingly vocal, group in the overall UO player demographic; so 'their' facet will always be less populated, which is not to say it is 'dead' by any means.  

Within that group are pvpers who enjoy pitting their skills against other players. They only want willing participants who enjoy the same thing.

Then there are pk's who only require a victim with a skill set they can easily overcome. 

Some of both sets are unable to function without the artificial prop provided by unauthorised 'extras'. (to me that's an admission of their lack of real skill, but that's just me)

There are also players like myself, willing to spend time on the facet for the extra gains, but carefully, as much as possible avoiding conflict, and employing legendary leggit skills coupled with a fairly comprehensive knowledge of the terrain when that fails 😂   I tried pvp, I don't have the right temperament for it, but I don't throw a hissy fit when my leggit skills fail and I end up viewing in grey-scale.

Give up trying to find incentives to push people into fel, those that want to go, will. those that don't, won't.

I would advise any pvm folk who want to try champ spawns to attempt to recruit genuine pvpers to join them and act as 'guards', for a fair recompense, or try to fit in a sneaky T2A champ at off peak times.

well said @Petra_Fyde

Yes @Petra_Fyde exactly (you are a much nicer and more polite person then me)

Another solution is who ever attacks a blue gets their armor nerfed to 0 to give the blue a fighting chance at defending themselves. Risk verse reward.  If you want the reward of attacking a blue then your risk of dying increases a lot.

Another solution is if a blue is attacked they immediately are able to recall away even in areas were they normally can not recall from.

Bah.
All this banter for something not really needed (or wanted).

Felucca is fine. Felucca is bountiful. Felucca is populated. Felucca is glorious!

About the only thing I think needed in Felucca - or rather all of Sosaria - is a bit more of this thing called "role play" - but we all kinda do that, eh? 

Petra_Fyde said:

Fel is essentially a facet for pvpers; they are a minority, though exceedingly vocal, group in the overall UO player demographic; so 'their' facet will always be less populated, which is not to say it is 'dead' by any means.  

Hi Petra, Nice post overall, I never have a problem with any of your posts, or attitude, in fact I believe you are wasted in Trammel 🙂 But then I know you hang out with possibly the best/nicest Trammel players - who also have a fantastic attitude. It is only because I know of you guys playing in Trammel, that I know there are some cool ones, and don't trash the entire lot.

I just wanted to make a comment on this bit, regarding minority, and how vocal we are.

I play in 2 guild Discords - Wraiths on Europa, and 1%ers on Atlantic - now I am not going to show any screenshots, because I believe I would be compromising friends privacy, and I don't have permission.

The Wraiths alliance (Wraiths/TUK) discord currently has 15 online players, and 57 offline players.

1%ers guild alone discord has 55 online, and 87 offline players.

Do you know how many of them are vocal, and post on forums regularly?

The answer is potentially 1 (me) (but certainly less than 10/200 odd players). I never see anyone I know, who plays the game with me, who I speak with, and share similar views as, post on either Stratics, or UO.com - the truth is, they are all just too busy playing. There is the odd time I see one, and they have a post count of like 5, and I make a point of saying Hi.

That's out of the PvP guilds I am part of. I represent the Blue side. Representing the other side that we all know of - is Mervyn. Again, I play against many PvPers and guilds, and I rarely see any of them posting, I rarely see anyone from Mervyn's side of the tracks posting.

I really don't think we are a minority, and I really don't think we are that vocal, in comparison to what I see on the forums.

And just to add as a note - I believe I have dealt with the fact we are pretty much non existent on the forums. Ingame - Yes some of us are very vocal - I certainly am, my skillset is creating action. 🙂 We have a vibrant, competitive, active playstyle, we are enjoying ourselves, we are going to throw abuse/banter at each other, any sports players do so.

But again, when you compare to the numbers of us actually playing, the majority of us don't actually speak in general chat. My friends rarely do, Mervyn never does - his policy/guild policy (apart from a couple who break it) is to not speak in general chat - annoying for me, because I am always trying to troll him to get him to talk there. 🙂

Kirthag said:

Bah.
All this banter for something not really needed (or wanted).

Felucca is fine. Felucca is bountiful. Felucca is populated. Felucca is glorious!

About the only thing I think needed in Felucca - or rather all of Sosaria - is a bit more of this thing called "role play" - but we all kinda do that, eh? 

And I just really enjoyed your post. 🙂

Tim said:

Though I'm not sure about the mechanics of PS drop. Is it a set number per boss all dropped at the end? I had thought they were dropped randomly as the spawn ran through its levels like the pinks in trammel.

— Um ... no? 105 Powerscrolls and SoTs drop during the four levels of spawn. 6 Powerscrolls drop when the Champ is killed - 110s, 115s, and 120s. 12 if you have a Protector. How many Champ Spawns have you actually run in Fel?


— Fel is only “overpopulated” on a shard like ATL. On many shards there is a noticeable lack of PvPers on a daily basis, though once or twice a year things pick up when people come back from long breaks or some guilds from other shards pop over. Those who play their home shards exclusively can occasionally be found lamenting the quietness of Fel, but they get the PvP action they want by raiding people like me: Trammies who have no qualms going to Fel to run spawns for whatever our personal motivation is. (Scrolls, personal challenge, whatever.)

Ghost Cams in Fel or programs/macros that alert a PvPer to someone’s presence in a dungeon or at an alter is one of the main problems of Fel.

I have been raided a few times - two or three people in a group - who run straight to me, no matter how out-of-the way I am. They knew exactly where I was before ever approaching the spawn.

Yes, it’s quite possible one of them was scouting on a ninja stealther and they have mastered the template so that they can run the exact number of squares before revealing - but given that I play exclusively on a lower population shard with almost nonexistent PvP, it’s more likely there was a ghost cam somewhere.

Do I take a risk of getting PKed when I go to Fel? Yup, sure do. But ghost cams reduce my fighting chance of survival by more than half.

When I first came back I loved taking my new samp to champs.. really enjoyed it and every once in a while got raided.. was part of the risk. Was ok with it.  Not a chance of me doing a champ spawn and haven’t in many months until the ghost cams go away. Period. Ghost cams are a disgrace to the game and a fix should have been in a publish ago 

Petra_Fyde said:

Question: Would you rather the team spent their time chasing down these accounts, which requires actually catching them in the act, not watching a video, or developing the game and investigating and fixing bugs?

Another Question: If you delegated this task to GMs should they stop answering help calls to do it?  

There are only so many hours in a day and only a finite number of Broadsword employees, rather less than the number of cheaters you can find.  They do catch and remove some, as posted on the newsletters, there is a large difference between what is desirable and what is possible. Many older players understand that. 

Make ghosts unable to see players unless in war mode.  I'd say make them unable to ever see a player, but if they are looking for a res that would be a hindrance.  Could also consider making it so a ghost can see guild/alliance/party members and nothing else as far as mobiles.

The only in war mode deal is in place other places and works well.  But they also police and take care of ghosts just chilling so who knows.

I'd say there are more pressing needs like guilds that shall not be named sending their targets serial number across chat to make hitting same targets easier but who knows..... Make journal unable to read guild/alliance/party messages.  There's an idea for ya.

Do all you want to the ghost and it will do no good as long as EJ Accounts are allowed in Fel.  I watched a char named "Im a ghostcam" with a stealth +10 robe practicing hiding in Luna.  What will you do about the stealth hiding EJ chars.

Bilbo said:

Do all you want to the ghost and it will do no good as long as EJ Accounts are allowed in Fel.  I watched a char named "Im a ghostcam" with a stealth +10 robe practicing hiding in Luna.  What will you do about the stealth hiding EJ chars.

Ineed, BOTH would need to be addressed or the issue of AFK "cameras" to monitor AFK various places at once, would not be solved...

Well you can kill the no defensive skill player and turn him into a ghost.  Meaning you can take control rather than paging and crying on the forums and over nerfing stuff.

Lynk said:

Well you can kill the no defensive skill player and turn him into a ghost.  Meaning you can take control rather than paging and crying on the forums and over nerfing stuff.

They are usually hidden and stealthing while running their "Camera" script....

So, a player would need to FIRST Detect them (which takes TIME to do) and only "after" they could kill them and likely get also a Murder count if that "free" EJ "Away from Keyboard" character being used to run the "Camera script" is a blue and not a red character....

And this, to protect AFK "Camera scripts" gameplay to be run which is, to my knowledge, AGAINST Ultima Online's TOS ?

And this would be asking for "nerfing stuff"  ?

Go figure.....

You can only kill him if you can find him to reveal him.  How many chars do you have that run DH or are you just going to throw field spells all over the place till you find him.

They just don't want their free EJ Accounts nerfed.  EJ Accounts should not be allowed in Fel or on Gen Chat.

People asked for EJ so the casual pvper didn't have to pay. 

If it's being abused it needs fixed in a way that won't affect actual play. 

Lol some of you are just rediculous

Alls the people using this cheat is attack the people that want this cheat removed, we must be asking the devs to do away with something they are using.

History lesson 
Fel was emptied by the pk's reds and thiefs.  The minute the gates to Tram opened I watched each shards Feluccian  side dissolve to a barren land.   It was not players leaving the game … they found tram the best way to keep what they had at low risk.  Had nothing to do with the Dev.  
As for getting people back to the danger zone.... The Elders of this game are a thin breed most have retired to the happy hunting grounds or are too busy keeping their retirement savings intact.
The new kids on the block wouldn't be caught dead playing this game (sorry the few who do) its a fact the game is old and in their mind as dead as the pyramids.  So... the game has its addicts.
A lot of us who caught the bug play and I will say I have homes still from day one in Fel.
Getting more to fel is a good thought but I dare say its not gunna happen  at least in, my uo life time.

Well said @Lady_Storm

the only thing that is keeping felucca alive is the fact you can only get PS from there. I don't see any other point to it. Other incentives to go there eg, luck, double resources etc are nothing in comparison to this.obviously im being over-simplistic on this but in the greater scheme of things it boils down to this

I have no interest in going there ever unless forced to (e.g for handing in Cargo at Buccaneers Den), because I have no interest in randomly being entered into a Pvp encounter when im not equipped for it, expecting it, prepared for it, or want it.

Surely this must be a big warning light to the DEVs, or they already know this which is why they consistently put PS related stuff in Felucca, including the new Treasure hunting updates with 105/110 scrolls appearing in Felucca treasure map chests.

Other incentives to go there don't work as they cant overcome the PS imbalance.

Simple solution is to just let the place die and we all move on. Not good for nostalgia but im pretty sure it would make things a whole lot easier. 

- Kill the felucca facet

- introduce the monster/blocking/other felucca related tweaks ruleset to trammel champion spawns or specific areas (so people can still optionally enter into them)
 
- introduce PVP only areas into trammel including pvp area only champion spawns which are the only source of  PS (120s) and have the enhanced luck/resource collection etc

- introduce PS (105,110,115) into the trammel champion spawns

Everyone is happy, all bases covered

Im useless at Pvp, but even in this it may actually make me enter into Pvp within the game because I can enter into it of my own free will....not have it forced upon me

Fenriswolf said:

- Kill the felucca facet
 
- introduce PVP only areas into trammel including pvp area only champion spawns which are the only source of  PS (120s) and have the enhanced luck/resource collection etc

I agree with most of your points, but introducing both of these items, IMO will accomplish nothing except anger both PvPers and PvMers.
Problem with Felucca is not that it exists. The problem is that the current design (PS location) and at least one recent update (increased demand for PSs due to taming) are driving the unwilling majority towards providing entertainment for the vocal minority. If UO's PvP cannot survive without forcing a stream of victims into Fel, then it's an abhorrent system that should not exist.   

Fenriswolf said:

the only thing that is keeping felucca alive is the fact you can only get PS from there. I don't see any other point to it. Other incentives to go there eg, luck, double resources etc are nothing in comparison to this.obviously im being over-simplistic on this but in the greater scheme of things it boils down to this

I have no interest in going there ever unless forced to (e.g for handing in Cargo at Buccaneers Den), because I have no interest in randomly being entered into a Pvp encounter when im not equipped for it, expecting it, prepared for it, or want it.

Surely this must be a big warning light to the DEVs, or they already know this which is why they consistently put PS related stuff in Felucca, including the new Treasure hunting updates with 105/110 scrolls appearing in Felucca treasure map chests.

Other incentives to go there don't work as they cant overcome the PS imbalance.

Simple solution is to just let the place die and we all move on. Not good for nostalgia but im pretty sure it would make things a whole lot easier. 

- Kill the felucca facet

- introduce the monster/blocking/other felucca related tweaks ruleset to trammel champion spawns or specific areas (so people can still optionally enter into them)
 
- introduce PVP only areas into trammel including pvp area only champion spawns which are the only source of  PS (120s) and have the enhanced luck/resource collection etc

- introduce PS (105,110,115) into the trammel champion spawns

Everyone is happy, all bases covered

Im useless at Pvp, but even in this it may actually make me enter into Pvp within the game because I can enter into it of my own free will....not have it forced upon me

There is little point of fel. I do VvV to sell the rewards. PvP only happens at yew gate, spawn areas or active VvV towns. The luck bonus is actually decent and double resources is nice at times. In general, most of fel is abandoned except for housing.

I honestly don't know how or why Yew gate has survived as the main spot.

The pvpers have rallied in the past to get Order and Chaos back into Tram but were met with major backlash as the Tram players said they didn't want to see pvp.

Sliss said:

Fenriswolf said:

- Kill the felucca facet
 
- introduce PVP only areas into trammel including pvp area only champion spawns which are the only source of  PS (120s) and have the enhanced luck/resource collection etc

I agree with most of your points, but introducing both of these items, IMO will accomplish nothing except anger both PvPers and PvMers.
Problem with Felucca is not that it exists. The problem is that the current design (PS location) and at least one recent update (increased demand for PSs due to taming) are driving the unwilling majority towards providing entertainment for the vocal minority. If UO's PvP cannot survive without forcing a stream of victims into Fel, then it's an abhorrent system that should not exist.   

" If UO's PvP cannot survive without forcing a stream of victims into Fel, then it's an abhorrent system that should not exist. "

To my opinion, the real problem with a lot of MMOs is that, in order to "populate" PvP areas, they offer items "exclusive" to those areas to attract players there.

To my viewing, this did not work for Ultima Online (having Powerscrolls exclusive of Felucca) and it actually hurt Ultima Online in many ways and it also hurt games where a Monopoly is permitted to exist in control of only a few players that then, drives inflation wild in that game.....

I have tried to argue my point of view on this argument in another Thread with various Posts starting with this one https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/24435/#Comment_24435 .

In just a few words, to my opinion, permitting to only a few players to hold and keep tight the Monopoly of Powerscrolls caused LOSS of players to UO, not increasing the players' base...

This, because such a Monopoly raised inflation in UO absurdedly and this caused players not having access to Powerscrolls to have to force themselves into excessive "grinds" in order to earn the inflated amounts of gold which Powerscrolls surged in their prices because of that Monopoly.

A few players survived those extensive grinds but many gave up, were burnt out by those excessive grinds caused by the Powerscrolls Monopoly in the hands of a few and Ultima Online lost much players' base because of this.

And Felucca did not even gain any particular population out of that....

So, to my opinion, having Powerscrolls as an exclusive item of Felucca only caused Ultima Online to loose lots of players and permitted to a very little minority of players to become uber wealthy in UO thanking to their controlling such a Monopoly and Powerscrolls' prices.

But for Ultima Online, as I see it at least, it was a disastrous thing which over time cost an enormous hemorrage of players burnt out by the too excessive grinding that they had to force themselves into in order to be able to afford the absurd prices that Powerscrolls were set to have by that Monopoly in the hands of only a few players.

Scroll monopoly isn't in the hands of just a few players. It's up for grabs for whoever can take it. PvP guild or not.

Spawns were not and are not meant for someone to walk in and solo all day.

So @Mervyn you are trying to tell everybody that a 7xGM can do everything in a Tram rule set and never require any PSs what so ever.  Would you please enlighten all of us as to the templates you would run for all the high end MOBs that you can get in the Tram rule set, also I would love to see your Tamer build/Pets and their builds.  Please go to the Roof with a GM Warrior or Tamer or Mage.

And yes we all know it is Red PKers that raid the spawn and we all know that a blue has to take them to Atl vendors because Reds are not allowed in Tram rule set.

You act like you are telling us all this great wisdom when we all know it is just BS.  The MOBs have increased greatly that a GM anything is useless and you know it you just trying to keep your PSs in Fel so please stop with the BS.

Lady_Storm said:

History lesson 
Fel was emptied by the pk's reds and thiefs.  The minute the gates to Tram opened I watched each shards Feluccian  side dissolve to a barren land.   It was not players leaving the game … they found tram the best way to keep what they had at low risk.  Had nothing to do with the Dev.  
As for getting people back to the danger zone.... The Elders of this game are a thin breed most have retired to the happy hunting grounds or are too busy keeping their retirement savings intact.
The new kids on the block wouldn't be caught dead playing this game (sorry the few who do) its a fact the game is old and in their mind as dead as the pyramids.  So... the game has its addicts.
A lot of us who caught the bug play and I will say I have homes still from day one in Fel.
Getting more to fel is a good thought but I dare say its not gunna happen  at least in, my uo life time.

Propoganda worthy of Hollywood. 🙂

I said they don’t require 120 scrolls. The 110s/115s they can purchase for next to nothing. But yeah even you don’t NEED 110 magery or swords or anything if you’re only doing PvM.. 

i’ll give maybe one exception for music and discord as you might really need 120 to actually discord some things. 

You don’t think 10 people with 7xGM could do the roof???
seriously Bilbo, it’s not hard at all.

Also, who said anything about keeping scrolls in fel? That was never a topic and Mesanna will NEVER allow powerscrolls in tram. 

I only gave all my 20 pets 120 everything just because I get the scrolls for free. If I had to pay for them or work a champ myself I wouldn’t bother putting any scrolls on them at all.

Urge said:

Scroll monopoly isn't in the hands of just a few players. It's up for grabs for whoever can take it. PvP guild or not.

Spawns were not and are not meant for someone to walk in and solo all day.

Cookie said:

Lady_Storm said:

History lesson 
Fel was emptied by the pk's reds and thiefs.  The minute the gates to Tram opened I watched each shards Feluccian  side dissolve to a barren land.   It was not players leaving the game … they found tram the best way to keep what they had at low risk.  Had nothing to do with the Dev.  
As for getting people back to the danger zone.... The Elders of this game are a thin breed most have retired to the happy hunting grounds or are too busy keeping their retirement savings intact.
The new kids on the block wouldn't be caught dead playing this game (sorry the few who do) its a fact the game is old and in their mind as dead as the pyramids.  So... the game has its addicts.
A lot of us who caught the bug play and I will say I have homes still from day one in Fel.
Getting more to fel is a good thought but I dare say its not gunna happen  at least in, my uo life time.

Propoganda worthy of Hollywood. 🙂

NO  That would be called a true story worthy of Hollywood. 
Sorry you can not accept the truth.  PKers killed Fel and many like myself had already voiced our concerns, we had already stopped logging on and accounts were not being renewed.  UO was bleeding fast and EA said fix it now so Tram was created and overnight the great Fel exodus began, subs were renewed and players returned, Fel became the wasteland known as the failed experiment.  UO was saved from the EA chopping block.

This talk of monopoly on scrolls.

Its mostly lone sampires who sell them after transferring to dead shards or logging in at 3am to farm. Raiders catch only a small percentage of these.

Yes make scrolls shard bound to stop the scrolls leaving the shard.

Radst said:

Spawn ghost cam is a serious issue, but according to Mesanna in one of the recent M&G: but ghosts are "not doing anything".

YEP.

Except it is an alert system that sends message to your guildmates when certain keywords are detected in the journal. Nothing new.

This really puts legit players at a huge loss when pk guilds just sit around waiting to get free meal. Spawn is one of the fun stuff to do in UO, hacking mobs. But when your fun is constantly ruined by such cheat system, players do quit.

In case some ____ (fill in the blank) dont know how to read, it is not about pkilling or dying -- it is about the cheat system that is enabling pkilling at a single call. No time wasted for the PKs.

Griefing at its worst - one of the worst reasons why people left UO in the early days due to too many griefing.

Bilbo said:

Cookie said:

Lady_Storm said:

History lesson 
Fel was emptied by the pk's reds and thiefs.  The minute the gates to Tram opened I watched each shards Feluccian  side dissolve to a barren land.   It was not players leaving the game … they found tram the best way to keep what they had at low risk.  Had nothing to do with the Dev.  
As for getting people back to the danger zone.... The Elders of this game are a thin breed most have retired to the happy hunting grounds or are too busy keeping their retirement savings intact.
The new kids on the block wouldn't be caught dead playing this game (sorry the few who do) its a fact the game is old and in their mind as dead as the pyramids.  So... the game has its addicts.
A lot of us who caught the bug play and I will say I have homes still from day one in Fel.
Getting more to fel is a good thought but I dare say its not gunna happen  at least in, my uo life time.

Propoganda worthy of Hollywood. 🙂

NO  That would be called a true story worthy of Hollywood. 
Sorry you can not accept the truth.  PKers killed Fel and many like myself had already voiced our concerns, we had already stopped logging on and accounts were not being renewed.  UO was bleeding fast and EA said fix it now so Tram was created and overnight the great Fel exodus began, subs were renewed and players returned, Fel became the wasteland known as the failed experiment.  UO was saved from the EA chopping block.

To be noted, no dissent.... "ALL" of the Developers agreed on that.....

Mervyn said:

This talk of monopoly on scrolls.

Its mostly lone sampires who sell them after transferring to dead shards or logging in at 3am to farm. Raiders catch only a small percentage of these.

Yes make scrolls shard bound to stop the scrolls leaving the shard.

No, the scrolls should be awarded to guilds with the skill to win the fights, not to players who have 14 year accounts with shard shields or players who work nights so can be on at 5am.

the people who are getting the scrolls via dead shard mining and spawning off peak are greedy and underhanded and not playing within the spirit of the game. People go to huge efforts to win group fights on main shards at peak times.

One reason to go to Fel for me was digging up high level treassure maps there. With the new loot this won't be worth it.

Please count -1 to the Fel population for me.

Mervyn said:

No, the scrolls should be awarded to guilds with the skill to win the fights, not to players who have 14 year accounts with shard shields or players who work nights so can be on at 5am.

the people who are getting the scrolls via dead shard mining and spawning off peak are greedy and underhanded and not playing within the spirit of the game. People go to huge efforts to win group fights on main shards at peak times.

"...the people who are getting the scrolls via dead shard mining and spawning off peak are greedy and underhanded a.nd not playing within the spirit of the game. People go to huge efforts to win group fights on main shards at peak times."

Using AFK Scripted Ghost Cams or free EJ hidden characters to Monitor those Areas so as to intervene only when needed by calling up fellow PvP Guilmates on Discord or whatever other Comm utility is being used, only "if" and "when" needed ?

Is THIS the "Spirit of the Game" ?

To use abundant AFK scripting which is against, to my knowledge, Ultima Online's TOS to start with ?

Please.............

Popps… Have you really tried to do a spawn to get your own scrolls? Its not that hard, even I can do it. If you really are that afraid of fel, just buy 115's. Not that expensive and really not much difference between 115 and 120s. I do agree on bard skills though, 120 all the way.

Before you say I don't have any gold to buy the 115s, try to earn it.   example, I train pets on Narvey. Two tangles this week just training unskilled, unscrolled pets. Each one sold for over 20 mil. Boom, 40 mil will buy a lot of 110's and 115's or a couple good 120's. Use vendor search, type scroll 115 and see what ya get. May surprise you.

Mervyn said:

I said they don’t require 120 scrolls. The 110s/115s they can purchase for next to nothing. But yeah even you don’t NEED 110 magery or swords or anything if you’re only doing PvM.. 

i’ll give maybe one exception for music and discord as you might really need 120 to actually discord some things. 

You don’t think 10 people with 7xGM could do the roof???
seriously Bilbo, it’s not hard at all.

Also, who said anything about keeping scrolls in fel? That was never a topic and Mesanna will NEVER allow powerscrolls in tram. 

I only gave all my 20 pets 120 everything just because I get the scrolls for free. If I had to pay for them or work a champ myself I wouldn’t bother putting any scrolls on them at all.

LMAO People solo the roof so show me you 7xGM to solo the roof, oh wait you can't.  Just a bunch of hot air blowing in the wind.  Awaits your next song and dance.

*sigh*

This thing started back in 1998/99 - way before power scrolls - when players in a single facet were so crowded a small prefab house (7x7 tiles) cost well over 5million gold. Large towers, keeps, and castles were sold via Ebay for _very_ lucrative prices ($5000 for a large tower - sheesh - and that was "affordable" for Napa). A cry for a new area for houses was the loudest cry, ever. Forget PKing and raids. It was the HOUSE. 

Yes, there was cheating, looting, thefts, scams, ghost-cams (even back then - they lived at Yew Gate*), and stalkers. And definitely pvp/pking. Mobs were not the top monster, another player was. It was a wild land, a bad land, a place where you MUST have friends along for a run between Yew and Brit, or a dungeon crawl through Shame, or anything away from the Guard Zones.

And the players would congregate - form squads - guilds. Guilds would war, get ganked, get stalked. House wars were had. Camping an enemy's guild house, even their private houses, was the new PK-ing guild's past time. It would start as consensual PvP guild wars, but would grow into something else. Noto-killers were rampant. Being a Lord or Lady meant you were at the top of your game - or you lost it, badly. Res-killing was a growing thing - and some PKers thought it grand to sit at your house and res-kill you after slaying every healer within 5 screens.

Them were wild days.

Before power scrolls, the bloodshed was personal. People took offense to it, a lot of people, and cried to the gods.

And it wasn't just things happening with UO - but influences outside of the game itself that brought about changes. UO was alone in the MMO world to start. The first REAL successful game to break into the internet which was, in and of itself, also a wild land. As other game developers got sophisticated, and in some ways copied the UO model (Everquest, then WoW - and both had non-consent pvp to start - they just lacked housing), there was competition for the attention of the Paying Subscriber. 

I believe Everquest was the first to kinda do away with non-consent PvP - that is where my evil sister went, abandoning me to the wilds of UO for her tree-jumping cows. WoW instanced their dungeons and non-consent areas, while UO kept it all open sandbox. Paying Subscribers started to budget their monies - and subscription changes were made. EA noticed.

So, the developers had to find a why to keep subscriptions, and they looked at all the forums and found the biggest issues...
1. Real Money Transactions OUTSIDE of UO
2. housing availability (tie)
2. pking (tie)
3. non-consentual pvp

Not too long after Trammel was live, Ebay became a bannable offense. To Ebay even resources would mean you would lose all related accounts. That threw a lot of merchandisers for a loop - a serious loop. Some people had quit their "day jobs" to totally live off of UO (this is what helped spawn the idea of Second Life) - and they made a pretty decent living from what I've read.

But the MMO market continued to grow. New games were coming out almost weekly, and Blizzard took the hard stance with WoW players. 

More "care bear" games came out that...
1 - were more enjoyable to the growing numbers of online gamers
2 - are easier to learn and master without a huge investment of time
3 - looked prettier, which also drove the hardware market (graphics cards, better monitors, more ram, etc)
4 - are more suited to the solo player

MMOs took a turn and became places where you didn't need the community much anymore. Many MMOs actually encourage solo play now. And players, themselves (and most of the people posting here) interacted less and less as communities and more like individuals who are just wanting to "win the game" by having all the stuffs and killing all the mobs and doing all the contents.


So my loooong post sums it up as such - UO is past its prime. It has the ONE single feature every other game has been striving for for years... that is Custom Housing. Only one other game has homes; and we shouldn't be surprised that this game's creator is behind it (SotA); but to stay streamlined with its 3D houses and still deliver a fast game, the homes are not custom and decorating is no where near as individualistic as UO is. 

So UO has "crappy art" - there is no other system deliverable over the internet with housing as ours. Get used to it. It is not just a nostalgia factor.

But I digress.

Felucca.. the blasted land... the root of all evil and the bane of every blue - is an aspect of this game that should NEVER be removed. Without Felucca, there might be instanced dungeons (wait, there are) in Trammel. Power Scrolls are not just available in Fel... get a binder and combine your itty-bitty scrolls into those more powerful ones. That is just "stuff", pixels on a screen.

Felucca is a mindset. It is not just risk and reward; is not just nostalgia. There is danger, there is risk, and there is reward - why else would it be there? Consider it a huge dungeon... just like any other dungeon. There were times "Ghost Cams" would hang out in Shame... it is a typical style of play and one that would be hard to get rid of. It is a common tactic in war to send out scouts - be they hidden by skill or by death - a clairvoyant could speak with the dead... isn't that a Necro skill? This is a common thing, and using game mechanics with outside chat is not necessarily cheating. Ghost Cams have been around since 1997.. even during beta if memory serves. 



Players in UO just seem to want all the stuffs and play all the contents without any of the risk from the unnameable AI.... another player.

There are areas of WoW players will never discover because of their play-style choices. Certain classes are not allowed in certain areas - and that is by design of the Blizzard gods. Wait, we have that in UO too.. Wind is for mages only.... 

"Is not fair only mages can go into Wind and reap karma and fame with fighting demons there! I want my Tinker to go there and get fame and karma, too!!!"

That is what a lot of these posts sound like. And yes, it is silly.

So the ONLY thing "blue players" in UO "hate" about Felucca is the fact that 120s drop there? Well... would you expect to find the Stygian Dragon roaming around the woods of New Magincia? No... that dragon belongs in the Abyss. Legendary scrolls belong in Felucca. You have other mechanics to get a 120 in the Trammel ruleset. Just Do It. The monopoly on power scrolls? Sorry, there is no monopoly. Just lazy players who won't get binders to combine their lesser power scrolls - a game mechanism the devs created as a result of the cry against the... powerscroll monopoly. *cough*





*afterthought*
TBH, Felucca is a reminder of how this game started, and the dream that is Sosaria. A wild land, untamed, with risk around every tree. Where players hunt out the most challenging of creatures known to man....




... another man.



*Yew Gate. Someone wonders why that is a thing. 
Well, when Felucca was the only land, the Reds and Grays couldn't bank... except for at the Empath Abbey. It was there that the NPC bankers would get close enough to the outer walls that a Red or Gray could bank without getting guard-whacked. Of course, there were those who would "patrol" the area and kill any Reds/Grays they saw without parlay... and those Reds/Grays would run to the Yew Gate to attempt escape. 
And there, at the Yew Gate, would sit a "Ghost Cam" of some guild or another, and they would send the word via pigeon (ICQ) that a certain Red was running the gate - and people would appear... and that Red would scream to the winds for assistance... and more people would appear. Or turn it around... a Blue would be banking at the Abbey, and a Ghost Cam would alert the Reds.. particularly if the Blue was a Lord or Lady - and Glorious/Dread were so much sought after - for noto-killing was serious business back then.
So, it was simple geography. The gate was close enough to the only bank available for certain players to use.
And the battles were glorious!
And old enemies have ancient grudges and long memories with established habits.

To summarise <span>🙂</span> 

Just put some bloody Powerscrolls in Trammel somewhere so we can end all of this for pity's sake. Even if they are just 105s that's enough to satisfy me. It beggars belief when developers ignore the cries of their player base because they think they know best

Im sorry but you don't. Put some scrolls in Trammel as a test, and watch the population of Felucca fall even lower..just to prove the point.

And there aren't loads of 110/115s to buy either. There are hardly any scrolls available on some servers mainly because they are owned by a select few, who also have no need to sell them. I was listening to one Pvp'er in chat who had transferred from another shard saying he had brought with him 5 full books of 120 PS...

The problem with Fel is that theres a Trammel. The problem with Trammel is theres a Fel. Your either in care bear la la land or your in a shooter game. Theres very little for a lot of us that resembles the uo we use to love. You have all kinds of people crying about how dead Fel is (which other than a very few spots is true) but it's not like Trammel is some well thought out and packed place. Other than Luna or a few high end loot areas you dont see a lot of players either. Trammel and Fel dont coexist very well together and never did. FEL for the most part has been neglected since the inception of Trammel . Trammies still cry about the smallest thing and that's why we have 2 facets that really dont work. Pre Trammel UO was a world .Now everything on either facet just doesn't work.

Dukarlo said:

that's why we have 2 facets that really dont work. Pre Trammel UO was a world .Now everything on either facet just doesn't work.

There is entirely too much wasted land space filled with stuff nobody ever goes to.

Fenriswolf said:

To summarise <span>🙂</span> 

Just put some bloody Powerscrolls in Trammel somewhere so we can end all of this for pity's sake. Even if they are just 105s that's enough to satisfy me. It beggars belief when developers ignore the cries of their player base because they think they know best

Im sorry but you don't. Put some scrolls in Trammel as a test, and watch the population of Felucca fall even lower..just to prove the point.

And there aren't loads of 110/115s to buy either. There are hardly any scrolls available on some servers mainly because they are owned by a select few, who also have no need to sell them. I was listening to one Pvp'er in chat who had transferred from another shard saying he had brought with him 5 full books of 120 PS...

Agree in putting scrolls in Tram in some other way other than some grindy quest.

LOL, how did this turn into a fel vs tram argument.  Trammel is the reason scripts exist in this game, if they never made trammel people couldn't sit somewhere and chain kill or do quests with nothing to stop them.  Felucca the players can police themselves when they find people scripting they can just kill them and loot their stuff.    

Also there is no such thing as a monopoly on scroll markets, anyone can go do them on almost every single shard at any time.  The only shard that you might need to go off peak is atl, no other shard has people on most of the time.    I have sampires on like 7-8 US shards and I can solo spawns all day everyday, but its boring to me to do it over and over.   

Its all just a video game, if people get this heated over it, maybe you should find something better to do with your time.

Kirthag said:

*sigh*

This thing started back in 1998/99 - way before power scrolls - when players in a single facet were so crowded a small prefab house (7x7 tiles) cost well over 5million gold. Large towers, keeps, and castles were sold via Ebay for _very_ lucrative prices ($5000 for a large tower - sheesh - and that was "affordable" for Napa). A cry for a new area for houses was the loudest cry, ever. Forget PKing and raids. It was the HOUSE. 

Yes, there was cheating, looting, thefts, scams, ghost-cams (even back then - they lived at Yew Gate*), and stalkers. And definitely pvp/pking. Mobs were not the top monster, another player was. It was a wild land, a bad land, a place where you MUST have friends along for a run between Yew and Brit, or a dungeon crawl through Shame, or anything away from the Guard Zones.

And the players would congregate - form squads - guilds. Guilds would war, get ganked, get stalked. House wars were had. Camping an enemy's guild house, even their private houses, was the new PK-ing guild's past time. It would start as consensual PvP guild wars, but would grow into something else. Noto-killers were rampant. Being a Lord or Lady meant you were at the top of your game - or you lost it, badly. Res-killing was a growing thing - and some PKers thought it grand to sit at your house and res-kill you after slaying every healer within 5 screens.

Them were wild days.

Before power scrolls, the bloodshed was personal. People took offense to it, a lot of people, and cried to the gods.

And it wasn't just things happening with UO - but influences outside of the game itself that brought about changes. UO was alone in the MMO world to start. The first REAL successful game to break into the internet which was, in and of itself, also a wild land. As other game developers got sophisticated, and in some ways copied the UO model (Everquest, then WoW - and both had non-consent pvp to start - they just lacked housing), there was competition for the attention of the Paying Subscriber. 

I believe Everquest was the first to kinda do away with non-consent PvP - that is where my evil sister went, abandoning me to the wilds of UO for her tree-jumping cows. WoW instanced their dungeons and non-consent areas, while UO kept it all open sandbox. Paying Subscribers started to budget their monies - and subscription changes were made. EA noticed.

So, the developers had to find a why to keep subscriptions, and they looked at all the forums and found the biggest issues...
1. Real Money Transactions OUTSIDE of UO
2. housing availability (tie)
2. pking (tie)
3. non-consentual pvp

Not too long after Trammel was live, Ebay became a bannable offense. To Ebay even resources would mean you would lose all related accounts. That threw a lot of merchandisers for a loop - a serious loop. Some people had quit their "day jobs" to totally live off of UO (this is what helped spawn the idea of Second Life) - and they made a pretty decent living from what I've read.

But the MMO market continued to grow. New games were coming out almost weekly, and Blizzard took the hard stance with WoW players. 

More "care bear" games came out that...
1 - were more enjoyable to the growing numbers of online gamers
2 - are easier to learn and master without a huge investment of time
3 - looked prettier, which also drove the hardware market (graphics cards, better monitors, more ram, etc)
4 - are more suited to the solo player

MMOs took a turn and became places where you didn't need the community much anymore. Many MMOs actually encourage solo play now. And players, themselves (and most of the people posting here) interacted less and less as communities and more like individuals who are just wanting to "win the game" by having all the stuffs and killing all the mobs and doing all the contents.


So my loooong post sums it up as such - UO is past its prime. It has the ONE single feature every other game has been striving for for years... that is Custom Housing. Only one other game has homes; and we shouldn't be surprised that this game's creator is behind it (SotA); but to stay streamlined with its 3D houses and still deliver a fast game, the homes are not custom and decorating is no where near as individualistic as UO is. 

So UO has "crappy art" - there is no other system deliverable over the internet with housing as ours. Get used to it. It is not just a nostalgia factor.

But I digress.

Felucca.. the blasted land... the root of all evil and the bane of every blue - is an aspect of this game that should NEVER be removed. Without Felucca, there might be instanced dungeons (wait, there are) in Trammel. Power Scrolls are not just available in Fel... get a binder and combine your itty-bitty scrolls into those more powerful ones. That is just "stuff", pixels on a screen.

Felucca is a mindset. It is not just risk and reward; is not just nostalgia. There is danger, there is risk, and there is reward - why else would it be there? Consider it a huge dungeon... just like any other dungeon. There were times "Ghost Cams" would hang out in Shame... it is a typical style of play and one that would be hard to get rid of. It is a common tactic in war to send out scouts - be they hidden by skill or by death - a clairvoyant could speak with the dead... isn't that a Necro skill? This is a common thing, and using game mechanics with outside chat is not necessarily cheating. Ghost Cams have been around since 1997.. even during beta if memory serves. 



Players in UO just seem to want all the stuffs and play all the contents without any of the risk from the unnameable AI.... another player.

There are areas of WoW players will never discover because of their play-style choices. Certain classes are not allowed in certain areas - and that is by design of the Blizzard gods. Wait, we have that in UO too.. Wind is for mages only.... 

"Is not fair only mages can go into Wind and reap karma and fame with fighting demons there! I want my Tinker to go there and get fame and karma, too!!!"

That is what a lot of these posts sound like. And yes, it is silly.

So the ONLY thing "blue players" in UO "hate" about Felucca is the fact that 120s drop there? Well... would you expect to find the Stygian Dragon roaming around the woods of New Magincia? No... that dragon belongs in the Abyss. Legendary scrolls belong in Felucca. You have other mechanics to get a 120 in the Trammel ruleset. Just Do It. The monopoly on power scrolls? Sorry, there is no monopoly. Just lazy players who won't get binders to combine their lesser power scrolls - a game mechanism the devs created as a result of the cry against the... powerscroll monopoly. *cough*





*afterthought*
TBH, Felucca is a reminder of how this game started, and the dream that is Sosaria. A wild land, untamed, with risk around every tree. Where players hunt out the most challenging of creatures known to man....




... another man.



*Yew Gate. Someone wonders why that is a thing. 
Well, when Felucca was the only land, the Reds and Grays couldn't bank... except for at the Empath Abbey. It was there that the NPC bankers would get close enough to the outer walls that a Red or Gray could bank without getting guard-whacked. Of course, there were those who would "patrol" the area and kill any Reds/Grays they saw without parlay... and those Reds/Grays would run to the Yew Gate to attempt escape. 
And there, at the Yew Gate, would sit a "Ghost Cam" of some guild or another, and they would send the word via pigeon (ICQ) that a certain Red was running the gate - and people would appear... and that Red would scream to the winds for assistance... and more people would appear. Or turn it around... a Blue would be banking at the Abbey, and a Ghost Cam would alert the Reds.. particularly if the Blue was a Lord or Lady - and Glorious/Dread were so much sought after - for noto-killing was serious business back then.
So, it was simple geography. The gate was close enough to the only bank available for certain players to use.
And the battles were glorious!
And old enemies have ancient grudges and long memories with established habits.

Amazing. *Bows*.

And, by the way, I have been meaning to pay respects to EM Malachi for a long time. Their storytelling is very strong, and I actually really enjoy reading their new snippets and chapters.

Fenriswolf said:

To summarise <span>🙂</span> 

Just put some bloody Powerscrolls in Trammel somewhere so we can end all of this for pity's sake. Even if they are just 105s that's enough to satisfy me. It beggars belief when developers ignore the cries of their player base because they think they know best

Im sorry but you don't. Put some scrolls in Trammel as a test, and watch the population of Felucca fall even lower..just to prove the point.

And there aren't loads of 110/115s to buy either. There are hardly any scrolls available on some servers mainly because they are owned by a select few, who also have no need to sell them. I was listening to one Pvp'er in chat who had transferred from another shard saying he had brought with him 5 full books of 120 PS...

"And there aren't loads of 110/115s to buy either."

Of course there aren't....

Because those few players who hold tight the MONOPOLY of powerscrolls, keep those lesser scrolls to bind them into 120s and then sell them for outrageous prices...

It is amazing to me how there might be some UO players disputing how there is no Monopoly of Powerscrolls in the hands of a few....

The clear sign of that is the HIGH, outrageously HIGH prices of Powerscrolls !!

Which it means, that their availability is scarce because the largest majority of players does not have access to them, regardless of how and why this might be.

Make Powerscrolls spawn also on Facets other then Felucca, hell, use the current ongoing changes to Treasure Hunting by making 105s and 110s spawn in ALL facets' Chests, not just in those in Felucca, and make 115s and 120s spawn in Treasure Chests in Felucca and THEN we will see their availability increase and, thus, their prices to go down to more reasonable figures....

And why would this happen ? Because the current Monopoly that few players hold tight on Powerscrolls would no longer exist, thus "freeing" a large availability of Powerscrolls.

And this would help fight the iper-inflation of Ultima Online....

At least, that is the way I see it.

Popps there's only a monopoly because nobody is willing to just go do it. 

If you get raided constantly, join a guild. Make a guild. Go to a dead shard and farm away. 

Actually playing with others will cut into profits but it can be fun.

It's not that hard. 

The_Higgs_1 said:

LOL, how did this turn into a fel vs tram argument.  Trammel is the reason scripts exist in this game, if they never made trammel people couldn't sit somewhere and chain kill or do quests with nothing to stop them.  Felucca the players can police themselves when they find people scripting they can just kill them and loot their stuff.    

Also there is no such thing as a monopoly on scroll markets, anyone can go do them on almost every single shard at any time.  The only shard that you might need to go off peak is atl, no other shard has people on most of the time.    I have sampires on like 7-8 US shards and I can solo spawns all day everyday, but its boring to me to do it over and over.   

Its all just a video game, if people get this heated over it, maybe you should find something better to do with your time.

"Also there is no such thing as a monopoly on scroll markets, anyone can go do them on almost every single shard at any time. "

This could happen IF AFK scripted Ghost Cams or EJ free, hidden characters were made NOT possible to monitor multiple areas....

But as it is now, where players can be spotted easily through such AFK scripted ghosts/EJ hidden characters, and then through discord or other Comms several PvP players be summoned to Raid, I do not see how that can happen.... players CANNOT go do them "like that"..... because the moment they try, chaces are that they get spotted and raided.....

It is my understanding that I hear that there is PvP Guilds who even "keep an eye" on low population Shards' Champ Spawns and have their AFK scripted Ghost Cams/EJ hidden characters also there, and log in their PvP Raiders right at first signs of other players' presence at those locations..... on low population shards !! I have heard of quite a number of players doing Champ Spawns on low population Shards AND getting raided there !!

To go back to the OP, I say take away FOR GOOD to players the ability to AFK run scripts of Ghost Cams and/or EJ free hidden characters and THEN we can talk perhaps about how players might "have a chance" at playing the powerscrolls Champ Spawns content....

Besides, I understand that such AFK scripting is against UO's TOS..... so why is it still possible ?

At least, that is the way I see it.

popps said:

Because those few players who hold tight the MONOPOLY of powerscrolls, keep those lesser scrolls to bind them into 120s and then sell them for outrageous prices...

It is amazing to me how there might be some UO players disputing how there is no Monopoly of Powerscrolls in the hands of a few....

"The clear sign of that is the HIGH, outrageously HIGH prices of Powerscrolls !!"

Which it means, that their availability is scarce because the largest majority of players does not have access to them, regardless of how and why this might be.

Make Powerscrolls spawn also on Facets other then Felucca, hell, use the current ongoing changes to Treasure Hunting by making 105s and 110s spawn in ALL facets' Chests, not just in those in Felucca, and make 115s and 120s spawn in Treasure Chests in Felucca and THEN we will see their availability increase and, thus, their prices to go down to more reasonable figures....

And why would this happen ? Because the current Monopoly that few players hold tight on Powerscrolls would no longer exist, thus "freeing" a large availability of Powerscrolls.

And this would help fight the iper-inflation of Ultima Online....

At least, that is the way I see it.

WTB a Cameo, Slither, Invasion Spellbook  or many many many other unique Trammel items for 10 million please.

Oh, I can't?

It is amazing to me how there might be some UO players disputing how there is no Monopoly of Trammel Artifacts in the hands of a few....

"The clear sign of that is the HIGH, outrageously HIGH prices of Trammel Unique Items !!"

Which it means, that their availability is scarce because the largest majority of players does not have access to them, regardless of how and why this might be. I personally refuse to go to Trammel, because of the outrageous, rampant scripting, cheating, multiboxing, greed displayed at events, and general gutter like behaviour of many Trammies.

Make Trammel Unique Artifacts spawn also on Facets other then Trammel, hell, use the current ongoing changes to Treasure Hunting by making these Artifacts spawn in ALL facets' Chests, not just in those in Trammel, and make Trammel Artifacts spawn in Treasure Chests in Felucca and THEN we will see their availability increase and, thus, their prices to go down to more reasonable figures....

And why would this happen ? Because the current Monopoly that few players hold tight on Trammel Artifacts would no longer exist, thus "freeing" a large availability of Trammel Artifacts.

And this would help fight the Hyper-inflation of Ultima Online....

At least, that is the way I see it.

And by the way, I think Feluccan's get so tired of saying it, we get so weary, there is no monopoly... It is a complete figment of your imaginations...

Urge said:

Popps there's only a monopoly because nobody is willing to just go do it. 

That is not a thing. You do not get people to stay away from something valuable without a very serious reason. It does not happen in games. It does not happen in RL. Its pretty much like saying that you don't see many humans hanging out in the middle of the hyena pack because nobody is willing to do it. And that your friend Mike was hanging out with hyenas for the whole week without problems before they ate him.

It is very sad when I have to listen to grown men and women cry about PS Monopoly in Fel. If you want someting bad enough you find a way to attain your goal. I am sure everyone here can do spawns on their own or with help from another. If you want PS then go get them, or buy them if you cannot earn them on your own. It is not the first time blues had to play in Fel and it won't be the last. If you are too afraid to go to Fel stay out of fel. I have 2 Homes in Fel and even though I am not a PVP'er and have zero skill in PVP I still run around Fel from time to time. Sometimes I may be attacked. If that happens I have a few options. 
#1- I could stand and fight. (I will most likly be killed)
#2- Make a run for it. (Still most likely be killed) or
#3- Try to hide. (Guess I would most likely be killed lol)
The point is I like to explore Fel a little and I will continue to do so if the risk is not too great and it is not since most people are doing Pirate stuff of T Hunter stuff.

Some things to help you when you go to fel.
#1-  Don't take anything with you that you do not mind losing.
#2- If you afraid of losing someting make sure you insure it.
#3- If it cannot be insured but you are afraid of losing it then see #1.
Also if you do want to go do a spawn plan it and invite a couple of trusted friends to assist you, it will go much faster. Have a protector and that way you will double you PS Drop.
Make it a Guild event or hire a red to assist and protect, he will get half the scrolls for protecting the group.
I wish I could create a guild to do spawns on my shard but I work at crazy hours. But someone else can do it if they have the time.

I apoligize for the long post, I hope it was helpful.

Popps Said: This is, as I understand it, an illegal practise in UO and yet, nothing happens to stop it, at least that I might be aware of and, I would like to hear MORE players' voices raising against it as well as see something done for good to stop it.

Arron said:

Popps Said: This is, as I understand it, an illegal practise in UO and yet, nothing happens to stop it, at least that I might be aware of and, I would like to hear MORE players' voices raising against it as well as see something done for good to stop it.

THEN, and only "then", we could talk about going to Felucca, having a chance and blah blah blah....

But until such illegal and enormously advantaging practices that some PvP Raiders benefit from won't get stopped, one way or the other, from the Developers, talking about having "more" players get into Felucca is only "moot" and pointless talking, to my opinion.

Your point has been noted many times here. The Devs are aware of the issue, so constantly brining it up every day may also be a moot point. If you feel you are a disadvantage playing in Fel I suggest don't play in fel until the problem as YOU see it is fixed. Also maybe you should e-mail the Dev team directly in sted of posting the same problem over and over in this forum. As I see it you may have better results that way, in my opinion of course.

 And also by the way maybe the reason not many raise their voice could mean it is not a huge issue, or that they report the issue to the Dev team and give them time to do something about, which may take a great amount of time since the are trying to work on more pressing issues.

To keep this thread open lets keeps this discussion civil.

I think some pro-PK people are missing the point.  There is a perception of a monopoly on power scrolls.  Perception is more dangerous than facts.

Cookie said:

And by the way, I think Feluccan's get so tired of saying it, we get so weary, there is no monopoly... It is a complete figment of your imaginations...

If enough people believe their imaginations that there is a monopoly then they will act like there actually is a monopoly and voice their displeasure of it on forums.

Telling Trammies to skill up so they can take on Reds in Fel is self serving.  You want people to change their play style so they will go to Fel and you can fight them.   That is not going to happen.  They will get on to forums and complain.

Personally, I avoid going to places in Fel where there is a big chance of encountering a red, because fighting other players is not my play style.  Yes, I miss out on events and spawns. But I would rather miss out on those then have some Red spoil the game for me.

"Spoiling the game for others" is not a point for you to miss.

popps said:

Arron said:

Popps Said: This is, as I understand it, an illegal practise in UO and yet, nothing happens to stop it, at least that I might be aware of and, I would like to hear MORE players' voices raising against it as well as see something done for good to stop it.

THEN, and only "then", we could talk about going to Felucca, having a chance and blah blah blah....

But until such illegal and enormously advantaging practices that some PvP Raiders benefit from won't get stopped, one way or the other, from the Developers, talking about having "more" players get into Felucca is only "moot" and pointless talking, to my opinion.

Your point has been noted many times here. The Devs are aware of the issue, so constantly brining it up every day may also be a moot point. If you feel you are a disadvantage playing in Fel I suggest don't play in fel until the problem as YOU see it is fixed. Also maybe you should e-mail the Dev team directly in sted of posting the same problem over and over in this forum. As I see it you may have better results that way, in my opinion of course.

 And also by the way maybe the reason not many raise their voice could mean it is not a huge issue, or that they report the issue to the Dev team and give them time to do something about, which may take a great amount of time since the are trying to work on more pressing issues.

Perhaps, just perhaps, discussing publicly this issue which, I imagine, is of a general interest to all of UO players, publicly on these Forums which are up for talking about UO, rather then instead just sending an e-mail to the Developers, might be a good way to have as many players as possible to bring up "ideas" on how to stop this practise that I understand is against UO's Terms of Service (TOS)?

The more the players to discuss about it, I imagine, the more good ideas might come up for the Developers to then find an effective and conclusive way to stop Ghost Cams or EJ, free hidden characters to be used to Monitor areas, AFK, with scripts, in Felucca ?

Just perhaps ?

We all know about the cams. The problem is they HAVE to catch them performing an action. If they start banning just for being logged in and standing somewhere, there goes half of luna bank too. The team has never said if they can detect 3rd party apps so nobody really knows.

Another thing is the guilds that run cams are not on 24/7. The vast majority of us are are grown up enough now to have some sort of job and or outside life. You probably can spawn untouched. It's just a matter of finding the times to do it.

popps said:I am surprised to notice that only few have clearly spoken against what is, to my understanding, a clear violation of Ultima Onlne's Terms of Service (TOS).

Popps , to me, scripting in Trammel wiped out the game economy. Duping, Events with 100m items being given away for free - etc etc. Once we've had to learn to accept all of this, and learn to play, adapt to it, a little bit of spawn camming on top in Felucca, is really just the icing on the cake - it makes no difference to me, I've already been forced to accept it all.

You are completely correct, in a perfect world, it wouldn't all happen, but it does, and there is not much anyone can do about it without spending more time than it is worth. I've had to adapt my mindset, and playstyle, to do what I enjoy, regardless. It is very possible.

The thing about spawn camming, whilst yes, it is a negative thing, and a few of my guildmates would even agree with you - and we are a spawning Feluccan guild - is it has pro's and con's. The pro's include - the very fact it is happening, and that players care about it, means the content is highly active, and sought after - this is far better than the dead cycles we have seen in the past. Lets just enjoy the fact the content is active.

 

TimSt said:
Telling Trammies to skill up so they can take on Reds in Fel is self serving.  You want people to change their play style so they will go to Fel and you can fight them.   That is not going to happen.  They will get on to forums and complain.
Personally, I avoid going to places in Fel where there is a big chance of encountering a red, because fighting other players is not my play style.  Yes, I miss out on events and spawns. But I would rather miss out on those then have some Red spoil the game for me.
"Spoiling the game for others" is not a point for you to miss.

 

I am not telling anyone to do anything, if you don't want to go there, fine, as everyone has said, there are plenty of other ways to get them, they are very cheap to buy, in comparison with the Trammel unique artifact drops. One spare cameo can buy you a shedload of 120 scrolls. As can 1 Trammel Event drop.

You are quite right - I avoid going to places In any Trammel facet, many of us also choose not to go to Trammel events, or Shadowguard, or Doom, because of the facet it is held in - and we are penalised.

If you guys want fairness and equality re powerscrolls, I want it across the board, so my playstyle isn't being punished, and everything is just given to players who go to very little effort for it, when I am playing the full game content against other players, and competing properly for my rewards. It's already bad enough in my opinion.

Sorry I lost the quotes in editing.

TimSt said:

To keep this thread open lets keeps this discussion civil.

I think some pro-PK people are missing the point.  There is a perception of a monopoly on power scrolls.  Perception is more dangerous than facts.

Cookie said:

And by the way, I think Feluccan's get so tired of saying it, we get so weary, there is no monopoly... It is a complete figment of your imaginations...

If enough people believe their imaginations that there is a monopoly then they will act like there actually is a monopoly and voice their displeasure of it on forums.

Telling Trammies to skill up so they can take on Reds in Fel is self serving.  You want people to change their play style so they will go to Fel and you can fight them.   That is not going to happen.  They will get on to forums and complain.

Personally, I avoid going to places in Fel where there is a big chance of encountering a red, because fighting other players is not my play style.  Yes, I miss out on events and spawns. But I would rather miss out on those then have some Red spoil the game for me.

"Spoiling the game for others" is not a point for you to miss.

Everyone complains about everything though. It's the new way of life in the digital era.

Same could be said for trying to change a 15 year old champ system that has worked just because everything in game has increased in prices.

I don't and can't understand the mentality that players have no fear when encountering a mob that can deal 200 damage in one hit but can't stand the thought of facing another player.

Mervyn said:

spawning off peak are greedy and underhanded and not playing within the spirit of the game.

Those of us who play off hours are greedy and underhanded because we play off hours? *scratches her head* So are you saying we should have to que for a champ? Wait for enough people to do the champ and then go in? I think you should pack your bags and move to World of Warcraft. You can go there and que for all the randoms you want, but I am not going to wait for someone to call out in Gen Chat... Piper UP! so I can go fight them.... If someone wants to come join or kill me when I am on, then so be it. I will not adjust my hours so someone can do that either. This is not the Olympics, nor is it a sport at all, this is a sandbox world. If it can be done, it will be done. If it can't...give someone enough time and they will, or....it just can't.

Doesnt matter how much you argue against the point, the current availability of Powerscrolls has messed up the UO economy.

Doesnt matter how much you argue, some people will like Felucca, others prefer Trammel

Doesnt matter what you introduce or try to police in the game, unless its is actively policed/controlled people will cheat or find a way to abuse the rule set

I found a guy botting his animal taming in Trammel, so i used the fact he wasnt there to move his character out of the safe area into a load of silver serpents, as my ticket request with UO remained un-answered

So if they are relying on the community to police cheats/scripters etc, then maybe having the option of ticketing this and enabling you to kill the suspected scripter or whatever without penalty in either trammel or felucca could be an option.

Would obviously need some thought or this in itself would be open to abuse

Urge said:

TimSt said:

To keep this thread open lets keeps this discussion civil.

I think some pro-PK people are missing the point.  There is a perception of a monopoly on power scrolls.  Perception is more dangerous than facts.

Cookie said:

And by the way, I think Feluccan's get so tired of saying it, we get so weary, there is no monopoly... It is a complete figment of your imaginations...

If enough people believe their imaginations that there is a monopoly then they will act like there actually is a monopoly and voice their displeasure of it on forums.

Telling Trammies to skill up so they can take on Reds in Fel is self serving.  You want people to change their play style so they will go to Fel and you can fight them.   That is not going to happen.  They will get on to forums and complain.

Personally, I avoid going to places in Fel where there is a big chance of encountering a red, because fighting other players is not my play style.  Yes, I miss out on events and spawns. But I would rather miss out on those then have some Red spoil the game for me.

"Spoiling the game for others" is not a point for you to miss.

Everyone complains about everything though. It's the new way of life in the digital era.

Same could be said for trying to change a 15 year old champ system that has worked just because everything in game has increased in prices.

I don't and can't understand the mentality that players have no fear when encountering a mob that can deal 200 damage in one hit but can't stand the thought of facing another player.

"Everyone complains about everything though. It's the new way of life in the digital era."

This is hardly about complaining "per se" but more of a real, tangibile problem for me....

Being a returning player with a Tamer and several untrained "Legacy" pets in the stables, I have, if I wanted to train them all as one would imagine considering every single of them has a history for me since I choose it and tamed it back in the days, a need for a huge number of 120s....

An almost impossible task to achieve, if I had to purchase all of the 120s that I would need to train them all up....

So, I would like to earn them on my own but, given the status quo and the extreme high likeliness to get Raided, I guess it is not worth the effort to work up a Spawn up to the Boss to then loose all of the work done to some Raider.... better just not start it in the first place....

Grind some absurd Spawn in Trammel to get a rare drop that sells high ?

To alienate myself from playing UO because of the absurd grinding and quit again ?

I came back to ENJOY the playing, not to alienate myself from playing again because of absurd grinds and then quit playing once again....

So, I see myself with no solution to this problem.

One could be finding others to do Champ Spawns but with the current low number of players and many players mostly wanting to do things in UO solo, that's also a quite difficult thing to succeed in.... and even if I was to find some players willing to do some Champ Spawns together, this would be for just a few times, while instead, considering the high number of 120s I would need if I wanted to train all of my pets up, I would have to do it over and over and over....

So, as I said, I see myself with no solution to this problem other then perhaps just pick 1 or 2 pets and train them if I either find the gold to buy the 120s I would need for them or the people to do a few spawns together until I earn the 120s I would need on my own, and leave all of the other pets there in the Stables, untouched....

The developers stance on power scrolls is well known and often expressed. In view of that I am putting an end to this circular discussion.