Per Mesanna's request, suggestion for crafters to compete with existing loot level

Calavera 2019-03-27 21:59 #0

Hey folks, I just posted this at Stratics but for those who frequent here I'm copying it over:

At the Meet and Greet this week, a player named Urge opened the topic of creating parity of crafted items vs looted legendaries. From Larisa's transcript:

Developer Meet And Greet ~ Catskills ~ March 25th, 2019

//begin quote//

Urge says: Are there any plans on increasing crafting to become on par with loot?

Mesanna says: We are aware that crafters need a pirpose again and if you have any suggestions

Mesanna says: we would love to hear them

Urge says: Ill send some in.

Mesanna says: feel free to email me

Mesanna says: and I will make sure the team reads them

//end quote//

I gave some thought to this, here is my rough suggestion for discussion if anyone is interested.

Mythical Intensification Crafting

This process creates an avenue for crafters to compete with modern regular loot items without reducing demand for high end legendaries.

The Mythical Intensification Crafting process takes a loot item of Lesser Artifact, Greater Artifact, Major Artifact, or Legendary Artifact OR a previously Enhanced Crafted Item and consumes it in an attempt to create a Mythically Intensified item.

Mythical Intensification involves using one of five intensities:

Ruin (weakest)
Force
Might
Power
Vanquishing (strongest)

And it uses bonus strengths based on selected material levels (not all materials used initially, but can be added in a later publish):

Shadow
Gold
Bronze
Verite
Valorite

Yew
Oak
Bloodwood
Frostwood

Mythical Intensification can only be performed on weapons or shields. This means that a maximum of TWO Mythically Intensified items can be used by a single toon.

Intensification raises existing mods and adds new mods to the selected item based off of the following table:

Table 1JPG

The process has the following steps:

1. The owner of the original item purchases an blank Mythical Craftsmanship Commission deed from NPC blacksmiths or carpenters. The deeds are priced at the following levels:

Shadow (+ 50,000 gold)
Gold (+ 100,000 gold)
Bronze (+ 200,000 gold)
Verite (+ 300,000 gold)
Valorite (+ 500,000 gold)

Oak (+ 50,000 gold)
Yew (+ 100,000 gold)
Bloodwood (+ 300,000 gold)
Frostwood (+ 500,000 gold)

2. The owner of the original item double clicks the deed, and is presented with a menu to choose the requested intensification level. Each level will have an associated cost. The costs for a level are:

Ruin (+ 50,000 gold)
Force (+ 75,000 gold)
Might (+ 100,000 gold)
Power (+ 250,000 gold)
Vanquishing (+ 500,000 gold)

Thus, the total cost of finished commission deed will be:

Table 2JPG

Once material bonus cost is selected, the owner is given a target and asked to select the item that will be intensified. This selection will consume the item. Its original properties now appear on the deed, with the corresponding power and material levels and the name of the owner at time of selection. The deed is now finalized and ready for the crafting attempt.

3. The owner double clicks the finalized deed, and then targets a willing Legendary Blacksmith, Bowyer, or Carpenter (depending on the type of original item). Only crafters with the skill level of 120 may make an attempt. The selected crafter is given a gump showing the finalized deed, and are prompted to accept or reject the commission. If rejected, the deed returns to the owner's pack. If accepted, the deed appears in the crafter's pack. The crafter then has 3 minutes to make the attempt. If the attempt is not made within the three minutes, it returns to the owner.

4. The crafter has 3 minutes to make the attempt, and in this time can utilize the UO Store Runic Enhancing tool, if desired. If it is not used, the success of the attempt is based off of the following table:

Table 3JPG

If the attempt succeeds, the intensified item appears in the original owner's pack. The crafter recieves the 50% of the total cost of the commission per the table above.

Restrictions:

- Only one commission can be attempted per crafter per day.

- Negative mods will be replaced with "Greatly Prized", per the following:

Greatly Prized -This will be a new mod applied to all resulting crafted items from this process. Items with the Greatly Prized modification have the following:

"This item's insurance cost is 500% of the the normal insurance cost for a similar non-intensified item."

For example, if the insurance cost for the source item was 2000 gold per death, the Greatly Prized insurance cost will become 10,000 gold per death.

For any source item that contains the following properties:

Cursed
Antique
Prized
Brittle

This property will be removed from the resulting crafted item and replaced with the following property:

Greatly Prized

For any other source item that does not contain the Cursed, Antique, Prized, or Brittle properties, the resulting crafted item will additionally receive the Greatly Prized modification.

- The final item will have the following naming convention:

"A Mythically Crafted (insert material type added) (insert item type name) of (insert intensity level) Wrought By (insert crafter's name) for (insert commissioning player's name)"

Example Names:

"A Mythically Crafted Golden Heater Shield of Power Wrought By Calavera for Lord Pawain"

"A Mythically Crafted Valorite Longsword of Vanquishing Wrought By Calavera for Lord Pawain"

"A Mythically Crafted Bloodwood Bokuto of Might Wrought By Calavera for Lord Pawain"

Sample Items:

Initial Item is a Wooden Shield with the following mods:

Brittle
Spell Channeling
Reactive Paralyze
DCI 15%
SSI 5%
Fire 5%
Durability 75/75

If Yew // Might is attempted and successful, this item could become:

Greatly Prized
Spell Channeling
Reactive Paralyze
DCI 21%
SSI 9%
Fire 5%
Durability 75/75

- or perhaps -

Greatly Prized
Spell Channeling
Reactive Paralyze
DCI 15%
SSI 9%
Fire 9%
Durability 75/75

However, if the same initial item was used in a successful Valorite // Vanquishing attempt, it could become:

Greatly Prized
Self Repair 5
Spell Channeling
Reactive Paralyze
LMC 8%
FC 1
Luck 100
DCI 30%
SSI 10%
Fire 10%
Durability 75/75

and it would have cost the following resources:

- the original item, which is consumed in the attempt
- 1,000,000 gold, half of which is automatically deposited into the crafter's bank box on success
- 1 charge of the UO Store Runic tool (assuming one was used by the crafter)

This provides crafter with a way to create nice items using existing 'almost there' legendaries or from player created enhanced weapons and shields. It also provides continual demand for loot items as 'fodder' for the process when folks choose not use the Runic tool. And for those great pieces you don't want to fail on, it provides more demand for a UO Store item that can generate revenue for the game.

Thanks for reading.

Urge 2019-03-27 22:51 #1

*bows* I appreciate your input. I was aiming for a more simplified way to make crafting viable.

Everyone should send in their ideas though.

Calavera 2019-03-27 23:24 #2

Looks like the tables didn't come through after all, and I don't know how to edit the post, but here they are:

@Urge I understand, I was just toying with an idea that incorporated a crafting skill, existing items, and with an opportunity to provide some bonus dollars to UO

PureLife 2019-03-27 23:57 #3

I don't think crafting has much hope to compete with legendary gear I think a viable alternative and gold sink would be to let crafters make 10 mod max intensity items that have like a 14 day life span and charge 1 million per mod or something of the sort.

I think high intensity limited duration items are the way to go for crafting. Allows everyone to have top end suits but the downside you need to constantly replace the items.didn't really put much thought into it though probably flawed concept but maybe worthy of discussion. Or maybe blank pieces of gear drop world wide off anything that can just be imbued to insane intensity's but still have a limited duration once imbued maybe 30 days?

Bilbo 2019-03-28 01:23 #4

Now why would we waste our time and effort on something that lasts for 14 days when we could just get loot that is better and free. Nobody is going to buy a limited use item for any kind of gold to make it worth doing.

Bilbo 2019-03-28 01:24 #5

@Calavera those are some well thought out ideas, keep up the good work.

King_Greg 2019-03-28 04:25 #6

I'd rather keep it simple than to see a huge overhaul.

Imbuing

Let us imbue up to 7 Mods+150% To current cap, but the item becomes antique as soon as we break the old limitations. Keep it at 5% Chance to imbue as the minimum, makes it a great gold sink. This is mostly for Pvpers.

Bring back imbuing Artifacts.

Reforging.

1st. Fix the issue where you can get 3 mods with 5 charges on a valorite hammer with 2 names that have a maximum of 10 mods possible. That's a joke. It's not a bug, it's just the way that it's coded.

For instance you use a val hammer with 5 charges and land Auspicious of Fortune + Arcane of Wizardry on a weapon and get

Auspicious Broadsword of Wizardry
Spell Channeling
luck 150
Damage increase 40 (From exceptional)

I can explain how to fix it, but like I said I would rather keep this simple.

2nd. Increase durability for the Fortified setting to scale with the runic hammer. 255 for Valorite/Barbed/heartwood. Simple change, but makes the armor more Viable.

3rd. Revamp Fundamental and and Integral to just being like Powerful with no negatives.
Dull copper hammer + Powerful + Fundamental + Integral = Shadow Hammer with Powerful.

Basically 2 charges of the lower hammer = The next level hammer. This will also help push valorite/barbed/heartwood up some

Runic Craftable Recipes

Add Recipes for Unique Armor that we can Craft with Runics. Use the Useless resources like the Stygian Dragon head, slasher of veils claws, etc.

Things like

Caster's Gloves (5 sdi 4 CF) + Runic Craft
Ranger's Sleeves (12 Stam 4 Dex) + Runic Craft
Warriors Plate (10 Hp + 5 DE) + Runic Craft

Unique Mods with Random Mods from Runic crafting without the OP changes to Reforging.

Mervyn 2019-03-28 04:32 #7

Is this some sort of joke?

The idea was for crafting to compete with current loot, not exceed it. Someone didn’t get the memo about reducing power creep.

I suggested the other week to make magical craftables reforgeable, that would help.

Mervyn 2019-03-28 04:36 #8

If they want to level crafting, are we all going to ignore the elephant in the room?

We all know that brittle items from loot spawn with 255 dura vs crafted brittle items having about 60. How about just reducing the dura on brittle loot and increasing the dura on brittle crafted? Nah let’s introduce another unnecessarily complicated crafting system...

King_Greg 2019-03-28 05:14 #9

Mervyn said:

Is this some sort of joke?

The idea was for crafting to compete with current loot, not exceed it. Someone didn’t get the memo about reducing power creep.

I suggested the other week to make magical craftables reforgeable, that would help.

Current legendaries - ~ 1200 Intensity factoring resists

My suggestion was 650 Intensity for Imbuing, ~ 800 For using 10 charges on a runic.

Not sure how that would exceed it, unless you were talking about what the other person was suggesting.

Mervyn 2019-03-28 06:04 #10

No I was talking about the OP.

TimSt 2019-03-28 08:45 #11

Raise the limits for imbuing properties along with an increase in the maximum weight for the cost of some gold and loosing the ability to repair the item. For example I should be able to imbue 18 SDI and 150 luck onto a bracelet for 100K gold each.

Uriah_Heep 2019-03-28 12:02 #12

Fix reforging to have a sensible plain english menu to select from.
I check that I want 150 luck, then have it tell me what tool, how many charges, and chance to succeed is.

I don't like the crapshoot that it is now. With UO's RNG, the farther we can move from dependence on it the better IMO.

Drowy 2019-03-28 12:38 #13

I would go King Greg's way. High end runics should be useful. So with reforging they should create 7-8 mods with about 800-900 intensity.

PureLife 2019-03-28 13:09 #14

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Urge 2019-03-28 13:16 #15

King_Greg said:

I'd rather keep it simple than to see a huge overhaul.

Imbuing

Let us imbue up to 7 Mods+150% To current cap, but the item becomes antique as soon as we break the old limitations. Keep it at 5% Chance to imbue as the minimum, makes it a great gold sink. This is mostly for Pvpers.

Bring back imbuing Artifacts.

I suggested something similar but without the antique. I would rather imbuing be capped with a much lower durability than with antique.

Email those ideas in though. Maybe we can get a discussion thread when it's time.

The problem I found is we need loot to be better to encourage doing new areas but at the same time, we need crafting to be somewhat close because of the time and gold/ store money for forged tools invested.

Merus 2019-03-28 13:29 #16

I would add a small chance to receive an “artificers gem” when unraveling high property weight legendary items.

The gem could be used on any imbuable item to create an “artificers item” which would increase the imbuing budget to 1200 and allow up to 12 properties. It would also increase the imbuing caps to the max property cap (example mana regen cap would change from 2 for regular imbuing to 4 for artificers imbuing).

All artificers imbuing would have a 100% success chance.

This would keep some value to hunting while adding value to some of the higher end legendary items with mismatched properties and let crafters start creating better items.

Cookie 2019-03-28 17:49 #17

King_Greg said:

Current legendaries - ~ 1200 Intensity factoring resists

My suggestion was 650 Intensity for Imbuing, ~ 800 For using 10 charges on a runic.

I agree with this.

I would also like more control, and more options on Greater Reforging outcomes.

This would make crafting more viable and attractive to me.

Add in a couple of attractive combinations for crafting, such as the wooden shields that can be made for pvpers using carpentry runics - sc, dci, reactive paralyse, soul charge + etc. These particular shieds still easily compete with Legendary items due to an excellent matching of properties for a parry mage etc.

Bilbo 2019-03-28 18:27 #18

All the crafting should also be counted in the imbuing system, if I am imbuing smith made armor/weapons then my 120 smith skill along with my 120 imbuing should give a better chances and better control of the items, same with tailor made stuff and Tink/Carp and if the items are made of metal then mining could also be added to help.

Petra_Fyde 2019-03-28 18:29 #19

My theory when offering suggestions has always been that the simpler you make it, and the closer it is to existing content, the higher your chance of seeing it happen.

To that end I would suggest tweaking imbuing with possibly a higher weight limit, maybe a chance to add properties that are currently only possible through reforging or loot and/or tweaking reforging to bring the negatives it has more in line with current generated loot and possibly a way to more closely define the result, reducing some of the randomness.

WornOutYourTool 2019-03-28 18:30 #20

Tbh, just increase the imbue intensity cap and open refornging/imbuing to be able to get all the properties. Maybe boost power of higher tier runics, done.

Urge 2019-03-28 18:57 #21

King_Greg said:

Mervyn said:

Is this some sort of joke?

The idea was for crafting to compete with current loot, not exceed it. Someone didn’t get the memo about reducing power creep.

I suggested the other week to make magical craftables reforgeable, that would help.

Current legendaries - ~ 1200 Intensity factoring resists

My suggestion was 650 Intensity for Imbuing, ~ 800 For using 10 charges on a runic.

Not sure how that would exceed it, unless you were talking about what the other person was suggesting.

I think 650 is too low and will keep imbuing useless for certain templates. That is only 5 mods and a partial 6th. That would be great for a mage suit but would still leave dexers in the cold.

I suggested 8-9 properties imbued with base resists being slightly increased. That would be at least 1000 weight.

Reforging should be slightly below legendary with maybe a mod or a cap below. Maybe it could even give a slight chance at giving a legendary 12 mod item or max cap 9 mod items.

Cetric 2019-03-28 19:27 #22

Crafting, Imbuing, reforging, refining etc.

All somewhat complicated to the naked eye if you haven't experienced them, some with alot of reading involved to understand.

I'd rather not implement an entire new system, but rather find a way to incorporate global loot into crafting needs, and revamp systems like reforging and imbuing to compete. Do not allow more powerful items worsening the power creep(is it even a creep anymore?) Make global loot type basic items more customizable in a way I guess?

Maybe that means recycling legendaries and such into a new material, the more intensity the higher power that material or something. Would at least remove some stuff from the game.

TrAjiK_KaT 2019-03-28 19:47 #23

I have been a crafter for a long time... I can still remember the original gump window for tailoring..I wish I knew the magical answer to bring back crafted armor again. To me just having the ability to have the same number of mods as legendary would be a start. Just keep that annoying RNG in there so we burn thru resources. One thing I do know for a fact, and it has been a problem for a long time in the history of UO, is that making armor and weapons last FOREVER is ultimately pointless. It ruins the player economy and you have NO repeat business NIL. With an extremely limited player base i don't see why on earth you would ever create an option for any item to last forever. Durability last too long as it is now and antique is too fast. Perhaps instead of adding more layers to crafting we should just add the ability for crafting to balance out the mods that we dislike on magical items. I have always been for burner armor (low durability high mods no repair cheap price), and i have had luck with new players enjoying the concept, but have had problems with older players lecturing me about the evils and how could I do that speeches...sigh.. so i understand the concept isnt favorable. There are already some amazing ideas on this board. I cant wait to see what others come up with honestly. Crafting needs Love.

King_Greg 2019-03-28 20:06 #24

Urge said:

King_Greg said:

Mervyn said:

Is this some sort of joke?

The idea was for crafting to compete with current loot, not exceed it. Someone didn’t get the memo about reducing power creep.

I suggested the other week to make magical craftables reforgeable, that would help.

Current legendaries - ~ 1200 Intensity factoring resists

My suggestion was 650 Intensity for Imbuing, ~ 800 For using 10 charges on a runic.

Not sure how that would exceed it, unless you were talking about what the other person was suggesting.

I think 650 is too low and will keep imbuing useless for certain templates. That is only 5 mods and a partial 6th. That would be great for a mage suit but would still leave dexers in the cold.
I suggested 8-9 properties imbued with base resists being slightly increased. That would be at least 1000 weight.
Reforging should be slightly below legendary with maybe a mod or a cap below. Maybe it could even give a slight chance at giving a legendary 12 mod item or max cap 9 mod items.

You realize you are asking to be able to imbue a mid level legendary artifact right.

Merus 2019-03-28 20:15 #25

King_Greg said:

Urge said:

King_Greg said:

Mervyn said:

Is this some sort of joke?

The idea was for crafting to compete with current loot, not exceed it. Someone didn’t get the memo about reducing power creep.

I suggested the other week to make magical craftables reforgeable, that would help.

Current legendaries - ~ 1200 Intensity factoring resists

My suggestion was 650 Intensity for Imbuing, ~ 800 For using 10 charges on a runic.

Not sure how that would exceed it, unless you were talking about what the other person was suggesting.

I think 650 is too low and will keep imbuing useless for certain templates. That is only 5 mods and a partial 6th. That would be great for a mage suit but would still leave dexers in the cold.
I suggested 8-9 properties imbued with base resists being slightly increased. That would be at least 1000 weight.
Reforging should be slightly below legendary with maybe a mod or a cap below. Maybe it could even give a slight chance at giving a legendary 12 mod item or max cap 9 mod items.

You realize you are asking to be able to imbue a mid level legendary artifact right.

That the most powerful crafted item be equivalent to to the mid level of the most powerful looted item doesn’t seem like a stretch at all to me.

Urge 2019-03-28 21:08 #26

King_Greg said:

Urge said:

King_Greg said:

Mervyn said:

Is this some sort of joke?

The idea was for crafting to compete with current loot, not exceed it. Someone didn’t get the memo about reducing power creep.

I suggested the other week to make magical craftables reforgeable, that would help.

Current legendaries - ~ 1200 Intensity factoring resists

My suggestion was 650 Intensity for Imbuing, ~ 800 For using 10 charges on a runic.

Not sure how that would exceed it, unless you were talking about what the other person was suggesting.

I think 650 is too low and will keep imbuing useless for certain templates. That is only 5 mods and a partial 6th. That would be great for a mage suit but would still leave dexers in the cold.
I suggested 8-9 properties imbued with base resists being slightly increased. That would be at least 1000 weight.
Reforging should be slightly below legendary with maybe a mod or a cap below. Maybe it could even give a slight chance at giving a legendary 12 mod item or max cap 9 mod items.

You realize you are asking to be able to imbue a mid level legendary artifact right.

Yes. Hunting is free. Crafting requires gathering of materials which equals to time and gold or real cash for forged metals.

A mid level piece of armor is exactly what I'm aiming for. Reforging should be on the upper end but not quite as good as artifacts.

Having crafting up to par with loot equals the playing field but leaves hunting as yielding the best armor.

Tim 2019-03-28 21:11 #27

TrAjiK_KaT said:

I have been a crafter for a long time... I can still remember the original gump window for tailoring..I wish I knew the magical answer to bring back crafted armor again. To me just having the ability to have the same number of mods as legendary would be a start. Just keep that annoying RNG in there so we burn thru resources. One thing I do know for a fact, and it has been a problem for a long time in the history of UO, is that making armor and weapons last FOREVER is ultimately pointless. It ruins the player economy and you have NO repeat business NIL. With an extremely limited player base i don't see why on earth you would ever create an option for any item to last forever. Durability last too long as it is now and antique is too fast. Perhaps instead of adding more layers to crafting we should just add the ability for crafting to balance out the mods that we dislike on magical items. I have always been for burner armor (low durability high mods no repair cheap price), and i have had luck with new players enjoying the concept, but have had problems with older players lecturing me about the evils and how could I do that speeches...sigh.. so i understand the concept isnt favorable. There are already some amazing ideas on this board. I cant wait to see what others come up with honestly. Crafting needs Love.

I agree

PoF should be harder to get than a Valorite Hammer if not removed from the game completely.
Since I'm on this rant, bring back the macing armor and acid damage. Back in the day I remember one fight with a macer meant all your armor needed repair. Stepping in acid usually brought something down to near 0 durably.

WornOutYourTool 2019-04-23 12:32 #28

Urge said:

*bows* I appreciate your input. I was aiming for a more simplified way to make crafting viable.

Everyone should send in their ideas though.

As per my inquiry at the meet and greet, here's my input on a few things to improve craftings competetiveness and hopefully not crush the dreams of loot hoarders.... I'll try and keep it simple.

Resists on armor

Crafted suits can still be mildly competitive, however a lot of their customization and strength must be sacrificed to still have resists close to looted items. This compounds even more so if any traditional artifacts with low resists in included in a suit.

To fix this, simplest thing that comes to mind would be to increase the arms lore bonus. Adding base resists or material bonuses would only make looted items better.

Imbuing

Imbuing is in a decent state, it's only shortfalls is limited selection and limited total intensity for many items. For example a fully reforged, imbued and enhanced shield is a joke compared to looted ones.

Increasing imbuing caps could fix this and a few other problems I'll get to later. To keep the crafting competitive edge, maybe consider increasing the caps on exceptional only.

Would be nice to see things like reactive para, casting focus etc. Be included in imbuing.

Reforging

I love it, many hate it, but in its core is working and solving a lot of problems. However, there are a couple glaring problems.

The random properties. Oh how they are tricky, trying to get reflect physical? You're in for a wild ride? Trying to get the perfect piece? Nope enjoy lower reqs. The negative or rather useless mods lower req, durability etc. should go imo. Self repair is good. And the wanted randoms like reflect should be put into a name perhaps.

Would be nice to see fun things like splinter, bone breaker, etc included, but that's just a wet dream of mine.

Runics

Largely are fine, except higher end ones. Going all out with say a valorite hammer will yeild at best something comparable with a looted minor artifact. Many times with two names + power, there will still be room to imbue on an exceptional item. Throwing that many charges to the wind should yeild more than that.

Using structural and the like is essentially a waste of charges. The item will improve modestly however the state it's in makes it useless in combat compared to looted items. The looted amazing 255 brittle items are a non issue, crafted ones are toast after seeing combat and still don't even compare.

Odd things

Dragon armor

Can't be enhanced with ingots or anything making it fall short badly. Can't be used with luck suits. Which sucks based on how difficult it is to work with and how great it looks. This also applies to cloth armor. Not sure what can be done there... Maybe special cloth from gardening or fishing to enhance with, I sure don't know.

Artifacts, special suits

I enjoy working with these, but their limitations are glaring. Some can be enhanced some can't, Imbuing caps are small, and some just don't let you do much of anything with them if anything at all. I'm talking about things like clockwork legs to beastial set to epiphany sets.

Craftable artifacts

Need a boost in general across the board or need to be able to be reforged, runic crafted etc. Most give weaker bonuses than skeleton loot. But there are some fun ones that would be great to work with or provide a nice boost on top of traditional crafting.

Refining

I love this extra layer. The more the better for me. I'd love to see refinements that revolve around other things like offense +hci -ssi or like +cf - LMC. Just wish list stuff, but for the love of God, don't add anymore until you can get around to making refinements stack. Simplifying the armor classes would be appreciated too. The different tiers is good, but those chests with them are a mess.

I'm sure I'll add to this later.

Tldr, more bonus to arms lore, more power to higher end tools, small tweaks to imbuing and armor types and some qol stuff, with no change to looted items.

Urge 2019-04-23 13:59 #29

I would make loot spawn with more player friendly usable stats.

My biggest issue is Stam suits. Being able to play a max swing Archer should not only be for the wealthy.

Bilbo 2019-04-23 14:09 #30

So lets look at this thing from the monster loot side of this. Where did these monsters get this loot, did they make it? How did they make it? If they didn't make it then who did make it and where do you find that Master Craft Person hiding. Why is it that as a Legendary Craft Person can not make items as powerful as these or be able to discover the person/race that did make these so I may learn.

We live is a world of magic and we should be able to make anything and everything that is in this world with the proper training, all this loot should not just magically appear out of nowhere. UO needs to stop catering to just certain types of play styles and truly look at UO as a living, breathing world where all play styles are treated equally. There should be nothing in this world that could not have been made here and if there is some forgotten knowledge and a hidden stash of these then it should not be and unlimited stash and that knowledge that made these items should be discover-able.

Pre AoS the best crafters were always in demand and it is about time that that play style was brought back to its former glory.

IMHO There should be nothing that a fully trained craft person can not make as good if not better that any loot that can be found. If you are going to portray UO as a world then let all the people that live in that world truly shape it. Let all play styles have an equal piece of the pie. Let the Warrior/PvPer find this new loot but the Craftters and Magic users should be able to unravel it to see how it was made so more can be made.

WornOutYourTool 2019-04-23 15:08 #31

Urge said:

I would make loot spawn with more player friendly usable stats.

My biggest issue is Stam suits. Being able to play a max swing Archer should not only be for the wealthy.

The loot allocation another bag of cats. Last night they just asked for clearer simpler idea they could impliment. Crafting specific. Making the max Stam suit isn't that hard just the crafted pieces have to sacrifice resists or stats to do so. The problems and solutions I laid out should remedy that and are largely just number and table changes.

Bilbo 2019-04-23 15:17 #32

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around. Make them all the same.

Radst 2019-04-23 15:27 #33

I DISAGREE strongly with these new ideas.

First, let's look back and review the roadmap of the key changes in crafting:

- 2012 (p74): Reforging/BOD: this important change fixed the long time issue of BOD scripting, because BOD was the only way to obtain the best gears from using only high-end runics with high-end color materials). This patch finally nerfed (in a good way) the demand for high-end runics and color materials, and finally set a purpose for all level of runics and materials.

- 2013 P81 Weapon/Armor revamp: stam loss for different armor type

- 2009 Imbuing: Together with reforging, crafters are finally able to create the desired properties in most cases.

- 2015 Time of Legends: Introduction of high-end loot gears. Crafters are still needed to make reforged pieces to pair with loot gears (for example: +5 HCI armors, 100% elemental weapons, 150 luck armors)

That being said, when you look at the bigger picture, each crafting method beautifully fit together in their own places, for both loots and crafts, for both PVM and PVP. It took quite many years to pave the way without us players realizing it, but it was brilliantly done.

As a crafter, I have nothing to ask for more. Crafting and loots dont compete each other: they currently balance each other.

PureLife 2019-04-23 15:46 #34

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around. Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

WornOutYourTool 2019-04-23 15:52 #35

Radst said:

- 2015 Time of Legends: Introduction of high-end loot gears. Crafters are still needed to make reforged pieces to pair with loot gears (for example: +5 HCI armors, 100% elemental weapons, 150 luck armors)

That being said, when you look at the bigger picture, each crafting method beautifully fit together in their own places, for both loots and crafts, for both PVM and PVP. It took quite many years to pave the way without us players realizing it, but it was brilliantly done.

As a crafter, I have nothing to ask for more. Crafting and loots dont compete each other: they currently balance each other.

I disagree with this part. Crafters are not needed and are outclassed in these areas except elemental weapons. Crafting IS in a great place, I agree, however looted items have once again crept up and put a shadow over it.

They're (devs) seeing craftings shortcomings and want to know small tweaks they can do to bring the balance back.

Bilbo 2019-04-23 16:39 #36

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around. Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break. Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product. You buy a better product because it is better.

quickblade 2019-04-23 17:04 #37

With all the runics being duped and scriped farmed over the years , im not sure if they should allow runics to compete with current legendaries loot , im sorry

Urge 2019-04-23 17:08 #38

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around. Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break. Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product. You buy a better product because it is better.

It boils down to supply. There's not enough supply with decent loot and crafting has too big of a gap to fill and remain competitive in some templates. Some of these pieces are selling for so much that keeps that A-tar guy in business.

PureLife 2019-04-23 17:39 #39

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around. Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break. Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product. You buy a better product because it is better.

Crafted gear will be cheaper to acquire allowing people to use it to fill in gap's in their equipment without spending over 100 million per piece. If crafted gear was equal to loot then people would want loot buffed then we are just stuck in an endless cycle.

Loot should break, crafted gear needs to break. It's to late to change loot.

WornOutYourTool 2019-04-23 17:41 #40

quickblade said:

With all the runics being duped and scriped farmed over the years , im not sure if they should allow runics to compete with current legendaries loot , im sorry

Not sure who this addressed to but if me, not looking to compete with legendaries. As it stands highend runics don't even compete with minor/greater artifacts, duped or not. Devs see it, and want minor tweaks to bring it in line with loot, thread isn't about anger towards dupers or people clinging onto looted gear scared their value might go down.

Urge 2019-04-23 17:43 #41

WornOutYourTool said:

Urge said:

I would make loot spawn with more player friendly usable stats.

My biggest issue is Stam suits. Being able to play a max swing Archer should not only be for the wealthy.

The loot allocation another bag of cats. Last night they just asked for clearer simpler idea they could impliment. Crafting specific. Making the max Stam suit isn't that hard just the crafted pieces have to sacrifice resists or stats to do so. The problems and solutions I laid out should remedy that and are largely just number and table changes.

I sent in something very similar to what you suggested but with more detail. No idea if it's even been read or ignored.

I have a lot of characters I just can't afford to suit unless I want to visit that annoying dood in chat. I can't justify spending real cash to compete anymore.

WornOutYourTool 2019-04-23 18:11 #42

Urge said:

WornOutYourTool said:

Urge said:

I would make loot spawn with more player friendly usable stats.

My biggest issue is Stam suits. Being able to play a max swing Archer should not only be for the wealthy.

The loot allocation another bag of cats. Last night they just asked for clearer simpler idea they could impliment. Crafting specific. Making the max Stam suit isn't that hard just the crafted pieces have to sacrifice resists or stats to do so. The problems and solutions I laid out should remedy that and are largely just number and table changes.

I sent in something very similar to what you suggested but with more detail. No idea if it's even been read or ignored.
I have a lot of characters I just can't afford to suit unless I want to visit that annoying dood in chat. I can't justify spending real cash to compete anymore.

I asked last night at the meet, they said feedback was good, just more, simpler and easier to implement the better. Glad to hear you were passing a lot of that forward.

Bilbo 2019-04-23 19:51 #43

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

Bilbo said:

PureLife said:

All I am concerned about is whatever method is chosen that crafted items break often so they need to be replaced. Legendary loot should still have high demand with crafted gear being comparable in stats just limited in lifespan to completely optimize your suit.

Also weapons are good where they are at and should not be updated.

Sorry but no thank you because if crafted stuff breaks often then nobody will want it, why waste the gold and resources when high end loot is still around. Make them all the same.

lol your kidding I hope bud. If crafted gear doesn't break you will make it once and then no one will need it again then we will just hear the same complaints about crafting being useless in a few months. Isn't that why we are in this mess in the first place because legendary armor doesn't actually break same with imbued and reforged stuff at 255 durability it lasts a lifetime.

And if the current loot doesn't break then nobody is going to buy anything that cost a lot that will break. Everything needs to be equal, if loot is better why waste buying an inferior product. You buy a better product because it is better.

Crafted gear will be cheaper to acquire allowing people to use it to fill in gap's in their equipment without spending over 100 million per piece. If crafted gear was equal to loot then people would want loot buffed then we are just stuck in an endless cycle.

Loot should break, crafted gear needs to break. It's to late to change loot.

You assume crafted gear will be cheap to make because you have no clue what new resources may be needed or how hard they will be to get. Lets say they put the new resources with the high end loot mobs do you really think that the farmers doing those will sell that stuff cheap so it cuts into their profit. Imbuing is not cheap and if the add more stuff to it then it will cost even more to make. Why buy a car that lasts 3 months when you can save and get one that lasts 10 years or are you going to be the person that buys 40 cars.

So we can change crafted to break but we can't change loot to break, something does not add up.

There should be nothing in UO that the players should not be able to make. Cap loot as it is right now and allow us to make the same and if loot goes up then so does the knowledge of all crafters. Crafters should not be considered a second class citizen in UO. I always thought a sandbox game was suppose to be shaped by the players not the UO GODS. Let us all play in the same sandbox.

Urge 2019-04-23 20:48 #44

What a perfect time to throw something together and put ingredients on these ships and maps.

Tim 2019-04-23 21:15 #45

I agree with the game logic that if it exists in the game someone had to have made it. So crafters should be able to make it now.

This could be done by making a hard cap of the "imbuing weight" (total magical power) for all items crafted or looted. Items could only go over the number by including a real negative like antique or cursed on a sliding scale. For example an extra 50 points to the cap for antique or 100 for cursed and so on. That way if you are willing to put up with the penalties you possibly can get a better item but if you want it "clean" you go to a crafter.

This game logic would also allow for the rare and hard to get named artifact going over the cap developers might wish to introduce. But as long as all changes to crafting and loot bags stuck to this rule, crafting would remain relevant and "power creep" could be kept under control. I know this doesn't fit the heading of simple or easy but if this principle had been introduced years ago we wouldn't be in this mess.

And God Yes bring back all thing brake sooner or rarely later.

Urge 2019-04-24 00:35 #46

Imbuing can be viewed as cheap or expensive depending on the amount of 0's one has in their bank. I view it as a cheap way for quick armor but someone else may struggle to buy the mats.

If they do new ingredients, they will be expensive, like anything else, until there's a giant surplus.

I do agree everything needs to break. Mervyn (RIP) was correct in having loot start at a lower durability.

Per Mesanna's request, suggestion for crafters to compete with existing loot level

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