High Seas Update: Treasure Chests & MIB Treasures

1. Providing new loot in both systems, leveraging player requests for items that we've collected in recent feedback.
2. Streamlining the systems to cut down on any mechanics that feel clunky or overly complex (sort of how we did with cannons, but not as robust since these systems aren't as complex as Cannons).

Cinderella said:

I'd like less items to weigh 50 stones... 
its kinda crazy that a giant beetle holds 1600 stones & if you loot everything, that you have to make 2 trips... (some tend to want to unravel everything)

Cinderella said:

where is the Yellow Polkadot Bikini Bottom?

Let a legendary mage unlock all levels of chests with the unlock spell so we do not need to recall home and use a soul stone to swap in 100 lockpicking. Could require some lock picking skill to boost the effectiveness of the unlock spell similar to how the poison skill gives a boost to the poison and poison field spells.  For example 120 magery + 90 lockpicking should be able to unlock a lvl 7 chest with the unlock spell.

Add zoom in and out to the treasure maps.

Add the Eodon potion recipes to the treasure chests.

Add slayer spell books to the treasure chests.

Add spell scrolls to the treasure chests. The higher the level of the chest the higher level of the spell scroll.

Add dyes to the treasure chests.

Add the other imbuing ingredients to the treasure chests.

For SoS's keep them sufficiently away from the edge of the world. I've had a few that were touching the edge.

Let us keep the completed SoS's instead of them disappearing when the chest is fished up.

Uriah_Heep said:

6) - What is the point to get Forged Pardons ? Does anyone still use these or are they totally worhtless to find ?


They killed the pardons with the VvV pardon.   Used to sell like crazy, but not anymore

• Lockpicking should not destroy items randomly on a fail with GM lockpicking - spawn a monster instead? (If you keep the item destruction - there is a bug where multiple items get destroyed on one pick attempt.)
• Level 8 maps out of level 7 chests. Spawns a boss type mob with same frequency as ancient nets - or more often since you have to relocate to dig up the next chest. Give the boss a new unique similar to small soul forge.
• ability to sort davie's locker by facet and level.
• for the sadists - ensure the character has the required catrography to attempt to dig the chest. spawn the chest on the last dig motion so that a character cannot start the fight invisible... muahaha

Okami said:

I've done some treasure hunting, both as just a guard for the actual digger, and the digger myself. So I do have some feedback, mostly from a gameplay balance angle. I'm hoping it all sounds reasonable.

• With the advent of soulstones, mining has become redundant and doesn't actually affect the digging process. Meanwhile, Cartography can just be stored forever until maps need decoding, then stored again. The solution to both simplify the process and keep Cartography as an active part of the Treasure Hunter Skill Template would be for the Cartography skill to give the increased dig radius. This makes sense, as having the map knowledge at the dig site should make it easier to locate the treasure spot.
  

Okami said:

• With new loot being added and reviewed, it's time to penalize the "Telekinesis" Loophole on opening chests. I'm not saying don't make it work at all, but much like a Lockpicking Failure will result in broken loot, have a trap detonation also do so. Make the top tier loot require the rogue set (Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Lockpicking) for picking the chest as a result.
  

TimSt said:

Let a legendary mage unlock all levels of chests with the unlock spell so we do not need to recall home and use a soul stone to swap in 100 lockpicking.

Dramora said:

Okami said:

• With new loot being added and reviewed, it's time to penalize the "Telekinesis" Loophole on opening chests. I'm not saying don't make it work at all, but much like a Lockpicking Failure will result in broken loot, have a trap detonation also do so. Make the top tier loot require the rogue set (Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Lockpicking) for picking the chest as a result.
  

Templates are already tight. Requiring Detect Hidden and Remove Trap would mean we would either have to recall home to stone back on fighting skills after disarming the chest, or force t-maps to require a group to do. It would be very difficult to kill the high level spawn solo.

Not everyone likes playing in groups all the time. I have always been a solo t-hunter. It's one of my most favorite things to do in game.

I'm definitely not a fan of this idea!

jaytin said:

Many people have spent time and energy making a t-hunt template that works for them, it's generally a solo pass-time and that's how it should be. SOS and T-hunts are what I enjoy most and they are the only reason I'm still here content-wise, please don't make changes that require extra skills, soul-stones or groups, some of us actually like having something we can do alone with a dedicated template. 

Okami said:

• "...The solution to both simplify the process and keep Cartography as an active part of the Treasure Hunter Skill Template would be for the Cartography skill to give the increased dig radius..."                                                                                                                                                                             Nice stuff in your post, Okami! I think changing the skill check here is a great idea. Personally I'd like to see mining go away and, as you say, have Cartography help hone in on the exact digging spot. Perhaps "You're getting warmer/colder" type prompts can pop up. One for when you're inside the 4x4 radius. Another for 3x3. Inside 2x2 the chest pops.
• 
  
• "...Perhaps have some items be stealable from the chests. This would make the "Thief" archetype an interesting run, Hide/Stealth/Lockpick/Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Stealing, with a splash on a skill to shore up a hole..."                                                                                                                                          I love the idea that the Stealing skill play a valuable part with our TH characters. Give us a reason to use Smuggler's Edge by giving us a chance to steal rares from the monsters that spawn with the chest. Drop mining pick up stealing!  I see room for a craftable in here as well. I know the Smuggler's Edge daggers are sold at the store, but I think it would be nice for crafters to be able to create something that helps the Treasure Hunter.
  
• 
  
• "It's probably shooting way too far, but with the focus on chests, it might be a window to add some more use to the Remove Trap skill. There's already quests that allow people with Remove Trap to place traps, so perhaps some new Tinker Recipes for placeable traps that run off the Remove Trap skill. (I'd say rename it to "Trapping" and have it be for disarming and arming traps, but I feel like that is just way too much a hassle and likely to break things."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I also like your idea that additional rogue skills play a part in loot plundered from the High Seas Adventures and Treasure Hunting! That's what I'm thinking when talking about finding a chest inside a chest. Let the chest you may find inside the main chest be something you're excited to bring home and open with another specialized rogue that needs to remove the trap. Or perhaps you need a magic user to remove a curse from the chest before it can be opened. An unopened treasure chest that might offer a great prize could also be a great item to sell on your vendors.                                                                                                                                         Besides the fun factor of bringing home treasure that still offers another surprise, I'd like to be able to still fight with my rogue while treasure hunting. I don't see being able to do that very well I have to cram all the rogue skills on my digger.
  

Kyronix said:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

".....while 7+ should be group activities...."

Kyronix said:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

Couple of things I'd like to mention as we continue the conversation, also disclaimer that none of this is set in stone so if things change down the line - take nothing I say here as firm!

From a user experience point of view, it's clear there is a discrepancy between doing T-maps in the CC vs the EC.  Trying to provide some balance for CC users is something we would have to further investigate to find what solutions we can offer within the context of that client. 

The "blocking the chest" issue is certainly annoying, and something I had a chance to try and dig into when we did the Elemental Titan arc - cleaning up the chest digging process is high on the list.  

As for skills - I'm not keen to start consolidating skills or forcing redevelopment of T-Hunter templates.  Using telekinesis to set of traps has been something that's been done forever - changing that in favor of forcing remove trap isn't likely going to be met with open arms.  That being said providing some extra reward for investing in that skill is more along the lines of how we could address telekinesis.  Someone mentioned secret compartments with special rewards that would get "destroyed" by telekinetic powers - that could work.  I'm not a fan of allowing mages to unlock higher level chests.  Allowing lock picks to craft a lock pick set to allow others to though? That would be a better solution I think.

Someone mentioned swapping mining out in favor of cartography for finding the chest - would have to investigate but it's an interesting idea.

I think we have a situation where some folks like to do treasure maps solo, while others enjoy doing them as a group.  The goal is to preserve this.  It was mentioned here that treasure maps 1-6 should be solo activities while 7+ should be group activities.  I agree with the premise, but that leads me to my next point...

We have too many levels of treasure maps with not enough ability to vary what's inside between each level - sure we can bump intensity and add specialty items, but ultimately we are pretty hamstrung.  I think a situation where we have 5 overall levels of maps would streamline things a bit.  Say 1-3 are solo activities, with 4 and 5 lending themselves to more of a group activity.  Where the current lineup of maps would fall into this new scheme remains TBD, but it illustrates a broader point.  Part of this is having Dread Pirates drop a more flavorful map experience that I teased in my first post.  Looking forward to hearing feedback here.

As far as what's in the chests - it's pretty clear there is a preference for quality over quantity.  One way we could accomplish removing some of the clutter is keeping some of the resource based loot to the lower level chests while preserving the item/equipment based loot for higher level.  This keeps incentive on the lower end maps while keeping the higher end maps free of excess clutter.  This way you could then decide what type of loot you want and do the map accordingly.  This would of course require a balance pass for which creatures drop maps, which has been asked for as well.

As far as T-Map loot (and SoS loot as well) for items - this is complicated.  Deco, recipes, resources, gold, gems etc - that's easy.  For equipment and artifacts it's another story.  We are in a really tough spot when it comes to artifacts, whether they be randomly generated or pre-made.  We constantly run into a situation where the majority of the player base is incredibly well equipped.  This leads to encounters having to balance for the increase player power.  Rinse and repeat, and we get the debilitating power creep we have today.  When it comes to artifacts, unless something has 100% mana leech, a swing speed that can drop down to 1.25 with maxed stamina, and AI it's pretty much "crap".  The same premise applies to a handful of desirable properties for most all templates.  Of course this is a multi-faceted problem that is the result of nearly two decades worth of itemization, but it's arguably the biggest hurdle with keeping player engagement high.  We aren't keen to open the flood gates and start loading treasure chests with clean legendaries but we also recognize that opening a chest to "crap" isn't fun either.  

This is part of a much larger conversation on how to rebalance crafted items vs randomly generated loot vs pre-made artifacts - but in this context it is relevant so I wanted to bring it up.

So at this point - what does that mean for equipment in T-Maps & MiBs?  Well at this point we aren't trying to do a complete redesign of the entire itemization, so don't expect anything too groundbreaking.  We should, however, at least be able to sweeten the chest.

As for SoS chests - adding more deco to the pre-fish is an easy thing to do.  I've got over 100 SCUBA dives on shipwrecks IRL, so I'm sitting on a laundry list of stuff to fish up from the deep.  As for the stuff in the chest, I don't think SoS chests compare really to T-maps in terms of the difficulty of the encounter.  Beyond the acquisition of the MIB itself, getting the chest is pretty easy.  In order to bump the loot in the SoS chest to be on par with treasure chests the encounters would have to bump to compensate - something I don't think many fishers (including myself) are keen on.  Will have to think about some novel ways to make naval treasure more interesting.

I think that's it for now - look forward to your comments!

Merus said:

Glad to hear that there is some work going into the mechanics (client/digging) of treasure maps.

Liked the idea of rebalancing map levels into a small set.  1-5 definitely sounds better than 1-8.

As far as loot, I know not everyone agrees, but I think the premise of some items really only being available in certain places is still ok for Ultima.  I don't think T-maps need to have the best armor or weapon drops in the game.  I think the highest level maps should have a chance at dropping comparable loot to some of the highest level encounters IF the guardians difficulty warrants it.  IMO, killing a few frost dragons does not.  I would like to see a level of map where the guardians DO warrant that kind of loot in the chest.  That said... I would like to see a small chance at something unique and desirable for T-map loot.  My idea was for a small chance (like maybe the rarity of a white Cu) to spawn one of the legacy tamable creatures from UOs past.  A bane dragon, a dreadmare, a silver steed, etc.  Just an idea, but I think it illustrates the idea that it is does not have to be armor but would perhaps be more valuable in todays UO economy than a alacrity scroll or a forged pardon.

While I know there is some focus right now on High Seas content, please do not limit the availability of the new highest level map (perhaps what you refer to as a Dread Pirate Map) to just high seas content.  Sure it can be added there, but please consider adding them to other high level content as well... perhaps a way to make the somewhat lackluster ML Peerless bosses interesting again would be if they had a chance to drop them.  Same for the two boss encounters in Eodon, Doom in Malas, Slasher/Medussa/Stygian in the Abyss... 


Lastly, I realize that a lot of content in UO is or can be done solo.  That's fine.  People are soloing the roof with multiple accounts.  I am fine with it.  Please make the highest level maps hard enough that a group could do them and have fun.  Multiple peerless level guardians would be appropriate I think.  Some players will still likely run multiple accounts and solo the maps.  But others will gather a group to do them.  I remember the days when a level 5 map was a guild activity.  It would be nice for there to be an option for a group of players to do maps together and it not be a waste of time.  To that end, and to revisit point number 1, please consider a way for there to be instanced loot for a group in T-hunts.

popps said:

Merus said:

Glad to hear that there is some work going into the mechanics (client/digging) of treasure maps.

Liked the idea of rebalancing map levels into a small set.  1-5 definitely sounds better than 1-8.

As far as loot, I know not everyone agrees, but I think the premise of some items really only being available in certain places is still ok for Ultima.  I don't think T-maps need to have the best armor or weapon drops in the game.  I think the highest level maps should have a chance at dropping comparable loot to some of the highest level encounters IF the guardians difficulty warrants it.  IMO, killing a few frost dragons does not.  I would like to see a level of map where the guardians DO warrant that kind of loot in the chest.  That said... I would like to see a small chance at something unique and desirable for T-map loot.  My idea was for a small chance (like maybe the rarity of a white Cu) to spawn one of the legacy tamable creatures from UOs past.  A bane dragon, a dreadmare, a silver steed, etc.  Just an idea, but I think it illustrates the idea that it is does not have to be armor but would perhaps be more valuable in todays UO economy than a alacrity scroll or a forged pardon.

While I know there is some focus right now on High Seas content, please do not limit the availability of the new highest level map (perhaps what you refer to as a Dread Pirate Map) to just high seas content.  Sure it can be added there, but please consider adding them to other high level content as well... perhaps a way to make the somewhat lackluster ML Peerless bosses interesting again would be if they had a chance to drop them.  Same for the two boss encounters in Eodon, Doom in Malas, Slasher/Medussa/Stygian in the Abyss... 


Lastly, I realize that a lot of content in UO is or can be done solo.  That's fine.  People are soloing the roof with multiple accounts.  I am fine with it.  Please make the highest level maps hard enough that a group could do them and have fun.  Multiple peerless level guardians would be appropriate I think.  Some players will still likely run multiple accounts and solo the maps.  But others will gather a group to do them.  I remember the days when a level 5 map was a guild activity.  It would be nice for there to be an option for a group of players to do maps together and it not be a waste of time.  To that end, and to revisit point number 1, please consider a way for there to be instanced loot for a group in T-hunts.

"Liked the idea of rebalancing map levels into a small set.  1-5 definitely sounds better than 1-8."

Did I miss anything ? Are there Treasure Maps of Level 8 currently available ?
I thought that Level 7 was currently the highest level T-Map...

" I don't think T-maps need to have the best armor or weapon drops in the game."

I think differently....

Let's look at it, what are "actually" Treasure Maps or MIBs/SoSes ?

They are, to my viewing, treasure troves that someone, in the past, hid in some location with their goodies, rares, niceties and drew a Map to find it back....

So, what the player is digging or fishing up is the treasure of someone else and this means that, according to the wealth and belongings of that someone else who hid it (or lost it at sea), the chest can very well contain the best armor or weapons that drop in the game.....

I mean, why would someone hide "junk" ? A Treasure, usually, is made out of "good" stuff, VERY good and valuable stuff not really of useless stuff..... right ?

Kyronix said:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

"...As far as T-Map loot (and SoS loot as well) for items - this is complicated.  Deco, recipes, resources, gold, gems etc - that's easy.  For equipment and artifacts it's another story.  We are in a really tough spot when it comes to artifacts, whether they be randomly generated or pre-made.  We constantly run into a situation where the majority of the player base is incredibly well equipped.  This leads to encounters having to balance for the increase player power.  Rinse and repeat, and we get the debilitating power creep we have today.  When it comes to artifacts, unless something has 100% mana leech, a swing speed that can drop down to 1.25 with maxed stamina, and AI it's pretty much "crap".  The same premise applies to a handful of desirable properties for most all templates.  Of course this is a multi-faceted problem that is the result of nearly two decades worth of itemization, but it's arguably the biggest hurdle with keeping player engagement high.  We aren't keen to open the flood gates and start loading treasure chests with clean legendaries but we also recognize that opening a chest to "crap" isn't fun either.  

ways to make naval treasure more interesting.

I think that's it for now - look forward to your comments!"

This brings up a "hot topic" on both this forum, and the "other" one. It is being said that, at the last meet and greet, @Mesanna stated that an 8 mod cap on all items was implemented. Obviously without any warning/reasoning. My questions are: 1) Is that indeed the case? 2) Why was it done? 3) Why were players not told? and, most importantly (and why it is being asked here, instead of in a separate thread) 4) Is that something that will change in the up coming "revamp" of treasure chest loot? 

I along with many other players, would really like some clarification please. 

That being said, I also think that new recipes (like the Doom ones using existing items plus something similar to Dark Father Blood, but only found in treasure chests) would be a nice addition to the higher level chests. 

@Kyronix @Bleak @Mesanna Please clarify in regard to the supposed (?) 8 mod cap on items because, honestly, if that cap is real, and permanent, a disservice was done to a lot of players, and a BIG reason to do  a lot of the content in the game has been taken away. Let's face it, who wants to spend time doing level 7 treasure maps, or grind away at the rooms for the roof, or wherever, and NOT to be able to get items of similar quality that WERE available. 

Kyronix said:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

Kyronix said:

"As for skills - I'm not keen to start consolidating skills or forcing redevelopment of T-Hunter templates.  Using telekinesis to set of traps has been something that's been done forever - changing that in favor of forcing remove trap isn't likely going to be met with open arms.  That being said providing some extra reward for investing in that skill is more along the lines of how we could address telekinesis. 

Someone mentioned secret compartments with special rewards that would get "destroyed" by telekinetic powers - that could work.  I'm not a fan of allowing mages to unlock higher level chests.  Allowing lock picks to craft a lock pick set to allow others to though? That would be a better solution I think."

I'm confused. I don't understand what you're saying about lockpicks above (tried to underline it but struck through it instead). If you mean a crafter could create special lockpicks that could get you to the hidden treasure in the chest, without using Detect and Remove, I could live with that.

I'm also confused that I hear you saying telekinesis has been used forever but at the same time it needs to be addressed. That reads to me like we'll be penalized for using telekinesis and not be able to reach the special compartments or we'll lose special loot if we use the spell instead of Detect and Remove. 

So folks are either going to get left out, not able to reach this new content. Or we rebuild our template to get to it. In which case I don't even know how I'd locate, dig, unlock, remove trap, be stealthy and fight spawn. Or we're making sure we're working with a combination of characters that have the right balance of complimentary skills to be able to get it all done. Which, for a lot of players, won't be as easy as it sounds. 

Rather than leave long time THunter builds out of the loop, making it more complicated if we want to reach all content, I'd like to push again for the idea that additional rogue skills be used after digging up the chest and killing off the spawn. 

We have trapped containers that spawn that we can pick up and fly away with. Those little barrels at Vesper Mint, for instance, that one finds when working up lockpicking. Rather than feel left out or rebuild my rogue I'd much rather go back to the rogue's den to look over treasure that hasn't fully been investigated yet. I'd be happy to use Detect, Remove Traps, perhaps even Item ID to reach the prize. As I mentioned before, having another not yet fully realized piece of treasure, that can be sold on vendors for others to discover the contents, brings a whole other layer of game content in. 
 
"...but it illustrates a broader point.  Part of this is having Dread Pirates drop a more flavorful map experience that I teased in my first post.  Looking forward to hearing feedback here....

"As for SoS chests - adding more deco to the pre-fish is an easy thing .to do.  I've got over 100 SCUBA dives on shipwrecks IRL, so I'm sitting on a laundry list of stuff to fish up from the deep.  As for the stuff in the chest, I don't think SoS chests compare really to T-maps in terms of the difficulty of the encounter.  Beyond the acquisition of the MIB itself, getting the chest is pretty easy.  In order to bump the loot in the SoS chest to be on par with treasure chests the encounters would have to bump to compensate - something I don't think many fishers (including myself) are keen on.  Will have to think about some novel ways to make naval treasure more interesting."

Well, now I want to be you. Because SCUBA diving for shipwreck booty has for my whole life sounded like one of the best adventures anyone could ever go on.

The dread pirate map idea sounds exciting to me! But I'd like to see this feature set apart from regular Treasure Chest Digs. Perhaps the maps could lead to little chain quests. When opened you're looking at a note, like you find when you open a MIB to look at coordinates. The note tells you where to go and who to see. Or what items you'd have to acquire, like a little scavenger hunt. I don't mind fighting with my rogue. So I don't mind seeing new content bring more risk to get the rewards. Maybe the Pirate Map could send you on a dungeon crawl, x number of monsters to be killed to get a drop. The loot can drop into your pack when you've finished your quest rather than digging or fishing up a chest. It seems like this could go a number of different ways to set it apart, make it different and new!

Loot wish lists can go on forever and vary widely, I think. New items I'd like to see for Dread Pirate loot would be new fishing gear, hooks, bait, recipes for swashbuckler clothing, décor items. Those aquarium fish someone posted are very nice. I agree it would be nice to see items like that outside the aquarium. Someone mentioned pirate flags. That's fun! There's no end...this could go on and on.

This got long, sorry! My thanks to anyone who slogs through it!

amit said:

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but why work on this when there are so many other issues that plague this game? 

Just seems out of left field kinda. I mean, am I the only one who doesn't care for boats, cannonballs and pirate stuff?

I digress. 

amit said:

Sorry for ranting. I just wonder if the development team actually even reads these posts.

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

Sure, I could empty the Hold when I need to engage into Ship combat but it would be a pain having to switch back and forth with the Ship from fishing to going into Ship combat....

Therefore, my question about the need to be able to have more then 1 Ship at Sea per account.... so that I can have 1 for my Fishing quests and another to enjoy Ship combat content that will be provided by the High Seas Update.....

Thanks !

KHAN said:

A Tamer/T Hunter is a VERY crowded template already!

ZekeTerra said:

I don't agree that Detect Hidden nor Remove Trap would be any benefit to t-hunting.  I have a very crowded template as it is and I don't leave the chest to go switch skills on Soulstones.  Why invest 100 Points (and there isn't any equipment for them) to Detect Hidden when we already know the chest is trapped.  Detect Hidden is fine for thieves and others to find hidden players or the VvV cities to find the Sigils to turn in.  If you add additional skills you won't be able to kill anything that guards the chests.  I have Mining, Cartography, Lockpicking, Magery, Animal Taming, Animal Lore and Vet on my T-Hunter and I'm fine with it as is.  Adding 100 points in Remove Trap is ridiculous since it rarely works at GM and I've had it on a soulstone for over 15 years. 

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix What about the supposed 8 mod loot cap on items? Is that actually the case?If so, why, and is that something that will be changed/addressed in the Treasure Cheat loot "revamp?

Kyronix said:

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix What about the supposed 8 mod loot cap on items? Is that actually the case?If so, why, and is that something that will be changed/addressed in the Treasure Cheat loot "revamp?

No.

KHAN said:

Kyronix said:

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix What about the supposed 8 mod loot cap on items? Is that actually the case?If so, why, and is that something that will be changed/addressed in the Treasure Cheat loot "revamp?

No.

Thanks for the reply, but, I'm confused now. It it, "no" there is no 8 mod cap? Or "no" this will not be addressed? 

Kyronix said:

KHAN said:

Kyronix said:

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix What about the supposed 8 mod loot cap on items? Is that actually the case?If so, why, and is that something that will be changed/addressed in the Treasure Cheat loot "revamp?

No.

Thanks for the reply, but, I'm confused now. It it, "no" there is no 8 mod cap? Or "no" this will not be addressed? 

No, I confirmed with Bleak there is no 8 mod cap.  This thread is about T-Hunting & MIBs though, if you want to start a discussion on loot properties, which goes far beyond the scope of the topic here, please start a new thread.  Thanks!

Okami said:

Thanks for the replies so far @ Kyronix !

I agree that detect hidden being a requirement for removing trap is not really necessary. I would suggest "maybe" having a skill success increase on Remove Trap for having DH, but that might be overkill. I feel like Remove Trap at GM should do the job for all Traps, considering the side effects of failure.

I'm curious, I wasn't aware DH was used much aside from Exodus Dungeon and seasonal content. Without spoilers, is there broad examples of where this is the case?

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

Uriah_Heep said:

I am sure as we get better goods, and more rewards, the team will feel the overwhelming need to up the difficulty of the mobs spawned.  

Please, however, keep in mind that not all of us play on atlantic, so either scale the spawn reasonably by how many are there, or something.   Cause we cant always get 6 people together...

amit said:

Does Broadsword pay you to argue or sometthing Bilbo? Every post I make you're the first to respond. Usually with a bad idea.

No offense, but I've looked over some threads with your input and your ideas, along with Tim''s removing powerscrolls and ikeelu''s non PvP server idea -WHAT?! These kinds of ideas would be monumentously hazardous to UO. Especially during these times and the state of the game in 2019.

I fail to grasp and understand why so many of you want to take risk vs reward out of this game. "Give me everything for doing nothing"
How is that enjoyable? 

I think I've finally realized something: this game is like a twenty- something year old dog that's suffering from arthritis, riddled with cancer and old age. Maybe it is best to just put her down once and for all instead of letting the poor animal continue to go on suffering. I've tried and tried to find a competent veterinarian to fix the poor old dog's problems, but lo and behold none of them have a clue to what ails the poor beast.

Sorry for ranting. I just wonder if the development team actually even reads these posts.

Arron said:

amit said:

Does Broadsword pay you to argue or sometthing Bilbo? Every post I make you're the first to respond. Usually with a bad idea.

No offense, but I've looked over some threads with your input and your ideas, along with Tim''s removing powerscrolls and ikeelu''s non PvP server idea -WHAT?! These kinds of ideas would be monumentously hazardous to UO. Especially during these times and the state of the game in 2019.

I fail to grasp and understand why so many of you want to take risk vs reward out of this game. "Give me everything for doing nothing"
How is that enjoyable? 

I think I've finally realized something: this game is like a twenty- something year old dog that's suffering from arthritis, riddled with cancer and old age. Maybe it is best to just put her down once and for all instead of letting the poor animal continue to go on suffering. I've tried and tried to find a competent veterinarian to fix the poor old dog's problems, but lo and behold none of them have a clue to what ails the poor beast.

Sorry for ranting. I just wonder if the development team actually even reads these posts.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to of course, but it is not one I share. I know I am not alone when I say" There are problems and issues with UO, but I enjoy most of the content and there is still much I have not done in the game and I have been playing for more than 17 years". In my opinion UO has a lot of life in it and many years of enjoyment to give. 

Kyronix said:

The absolute minimum skill requirements would be, 

Cartography
Lockpicking
Remove Trap
Detecting Hidden

Kyronix said:

Treasure chests are one of the core experiences in UO, and finding a treasure map has gotten many improvements over the years to making the process of acquiring and finding treasure chests more enjoyable

We want to build on that and make improvements to the overall systems to make them even more enjoyable.  


Streamlining the systems to cut down on any mechanics that feel clunky or overly complex

Please don't forget how it'll effect the Davie Locker for those die hard thunters.

I would like to suggest the addition similar to the current VvV system of an active alter. Once a map is decoded, a leader arrow could point to the general area within a couple screens. Provided one is on the correct facet of course.

Lieutenant_Dan said:

This is a bit of a stretch but it's been mentioned numerous times in other threads.

Add IDOC loot to treasure chests.

The reasoning behind this crazy idea is because IDOCs are so heavily scripted that honest players quit doing them because they can't compete with the cheaters.  I don't mean to derail your thread with discussion on idocs but this was one of the ideas people had to help curb the scripting.

Adding all of the items from an idoc house to treasure chests doesn't really seem feasible but perhaps a comprehensive list of top tier items that players would have displayed in a house could be made.  When the house falls those items would go into a queue status waiting to be added to a treasure chest. 

Cinderella said:

if you change tmaps to 1-5, what happens to the maps already in the game?
will they be worthless or would the levels on them automatically change?

Calavera said:

@ Kyronix Understand about not working in new skills as part of this effort, and please keep in mind the suggestions I made towards that would be optional for players. I agree with the others and you that t-maps are a big part of gameplay for a lot of folks, so definitely don't rock the boat too hard.

That said, I just finished my 18th t-map in the last 24 hours. These were all lvl 5 and lvl 6 (mostly 5) in Fel, Ilsh, Malas, and Termur. I was doing them to find a Mana Orb for a pvp suit I'm building on Siege. Guess how many of those chests had orbs? (I'm wearing a 2000 Luck suit, and the account is 5? years old, so add on that luck bonus from statue for some of those):

1 Mana Orb. And of course since there are many varieties, it wasn't the one I needed.

This isn't an argument in favor of the 'just gimme what I want on the first try' mindset, but I DO believe that the pot could be sweetened for t-chests, to use your own words. After 18 digs with only 1 success it kinda takes one's enthusiasm down a few notches.

So anything you can do to even out the digs would be great!

Bilbo said:

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

Sure, I could empty the Hold when I need to engage into Ship combat but it would be a pain having to switch back and forth with the Ship from fishing to going into Ship combat....

Therefore, my question about the need to be able to have more then 1 Ship at Sea per account.... so that I can have 1 for my Fishing quests and another to enjoy Ship combat content that will be provided by the High Seas Update.....

Thanks !

Deed the fish and take them to your bank or house.

Kyronix said:

To answer some of the questions -

The lock pick kit would be something non-lockpick skilled characters could use to get into chests in place of magic unlock.  The item would be crafted via tinkering (sans the actual tinkering skill) by GM lock picks.  I almost think using magic unlock to unlock a chest is pointless - ya there aren't really a lot of uses for magic unlock, but Mages have a huge buffet of very useful spells to choose from, lock picks on the other hand...not so much.  This also brings into question the skeleton keys which kind of make the entire point moot anyway.  Would have to take a look and make a balance pass were we to do something like this.  It's also worth noting - how many T-Hunters are either running without lock picking or stone it off once the chest is unlocked?

As far the telekinesis/special compartment stuff - the initial idea would be that telekinesis would prevent access to the specialty loot, providing a reward for the investment in the skill.  I think it's a good idea to talk about T-Hunter templates in general.  The absolute minimum skill requirements would be, 

Cartography
Lockpicking
Remove Trap
Detecting Hidden

We've established that between the EC features and Davies' Locker mining is moot.  If we swap mining functionality to cartography, which in theory makes sense (better at reading maps) you get the same bonus from a skill you already have.  

That leaves you 300+ (assuming all GM) skill points to customize out the remainder depending on what role you are taking as the T-Hunter.  

Another way to approach this would a box that could be removed from the chest that would have to be picked off site.  I've played just about every lock picking mini-game every game has come up with and none of them make you really go - ooooo! lock picking mini-game!  So I'm not sure that we need to go down that rabbit hole, but something that satiates that "rogue" sensation wouldn't be unwelcome I don't think.

I think for SoS treasure bringing it down to two levels (regular, special) of SoS makes sense, with some unique rewards available to just SoS treasure would reinvigorate that content.  On my fisher I usually have some low level fighting skills to handle sea serpents, and I don't see a ton of mileage out of making a "group" SoS spawn since we already have net tosses and the like.

Kyronix said:

For those who are thinking DH would be required should we do anything with Remove Trap as it relates to treasure chests...the DH requirement for Remote Trap would no longer apply - so you'd be switching out Mining (which would be covered by Cartography) with Remove Trap.  So we are talking about a 1:1 skill switch, not a 1:2.

Kyronix said:

To answer some of the questions -

The lock pick kit would be something non-lockpick skilled characters could use to get into chests in place of magic unlock.  The item would be crafted via tinkering (sans the actual tinkering skill) by GM lock picks.  I almost think using magic unlock to unlock a chest is pointless - ya there aren't really a lot of uses for magic unlock, but Mages have a huge buffet of very useful spells to choose from, lock picks on the other hand...not so much.  This also brings into question the skeleton keys which kind of make the entire point moot anyway.  Would have to take a look and make a balance pass were we to do something like this.  It's also worth noting - how many T-Hunters are either running without lock picking or stone it off once the chest is unlocked?

As far the telekinesis/special compartment stuff - the initial idea would be that telekinesis would prevent access to the specialty loot, providing a reward for the investment in the skill.  I think it's a good idea to talk about T-Hunter templates in general.  The absolute minimum skill requirements would be, 

Cartography
Lockpicking
Remove Trap
Detecting Hidden

We've established that between the EC features and Davies' Locker mining is moot.  If we swap mining functionality to cartography, which in theory makes sense (better at reading maps) you get the same bonus from a skill you already have.  

That leaves you 300+ (assuming all GM) skill points to customize out the remainder depending on what role you are taking as the T-Hunter.  

Another way to approach this would a box that could be removed from the chest that would have to be picked off site.  I've played just about every lock picking mini-game every game has come up with and none of them make you really go - ooooo! lock picking mini-game!  So I'm not sure that we need to go down that rabbit hole, but something that satiates that "rogue" sensation wouldn't be unwelcome I don't think.

I think for SoS treasure bringing it down to two levels (regular, special) of SoS makes sense, with some unique rewards available to just SoS treasure would reinvigorate that content.  On my fisher I usually have some low level fighting skills to handle sea serpents, and I don't see a ton of mileage out of making a "group" SoS spawn since we already have net tosses and the like.

Kyronix said:

For those who are thinking DH would be required should we do anything with Remove Trap as it relates to treasure chests...the DH requirement for Remote Trap would no longer apply - so you'd be switching out Mining (which would be covered by Cartography) with Remove Trap.  So we are talking about a 1:1 skill switch, not a 1:2.

popps said:

Bilbo said:

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

Sure, I could empty the Hold when I need to engage into Ship combat but it would be a pain having to switch back and forth with the Ship from fishing to going into Ship combat....

Therefore, my question about the need to be able to have more then 1 Ship at Sea per account.... so that I can have 1 for my Fishing quests and another to enjoy Ship combat content that will be provided by the High Seas Update.....

Thanks !

Deed the fish and take them to your bank or house.

As I said, I know it "can" be done but it still would be a pain if one needs to switch from fishing to Ship Combat all the time....

Fill up hold for fishing, empty hold when going Ship combat, rinse and repeat any time over and over one needs to change type of playing...

A pain....

Being able, instead, to have a second boat, would solve this with no pain....

Kyronix said:

You wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  I'm saying that outright - if we were to incorporate Remove Trap in any meaningful way, you wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  DH has a well versed use in finding hidden things in quest chains, and in dungeon chests.  We don't need it here.  

@ popps - if you aren't running lockpicking on your TH, how are you opening chests?  Magic Unlock? Skeleton keys?  Please also remember we are talking about removing mining as a requirement, and moving the search radius bonus to cartography - which frees up a skill.

Kyronix said:

You wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  I'm saying that outright - if we were to incorporate Remove Trap in any meaningful way, you wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  DH has a well versed use in finding hidden things in quest chains, and in dungeon chests.  We don't need it here.  

@ popps - if you aren't running lockpicking on your TH, how are you opening chests?  Magic Unlock? Skeleton keys?  Please also remember we are talking about removing mining as a requirement, and moving the search radius bonus to cartography - which frees up a skill.

Kyronix said:

@ Drakelord check out how the conversation related to Mining, Remove Trap, and Detecting Hidden has evolved. I also updated the previous post to prevent further confusion. If you could remove the need for mining - how would you change your template, how you do T-maps?

• Condensing the number of treasure map levels from 7 to 5, existing maps would convert to the new scheme.
• Rebalancing the levels so 1-3 could be done solo, and 4-5 would be more geared towards group efforts.
• Moving the mass quantities of resources out of higher level chests into lower level chests, so should you wish to acquire resources you could target lower level maps for that purpose.
• Reducing the quantity of equipment but increasing the quality.  This would be subject to very fine and hardline balancing.  Not every item you pull out of a 4 or 5 is going to be an uber-item despite the reduction in quantity, or the desire for the to be.
• Mining would no longer be required to gain a bonus to chest detection distance.  The effect would be migrated to Cartography.
• Magic Unlock would continue to work on lower level maps, lockpicking would be required for higher end.
• Remove Trap would become more useful in some context of Treasure Chests.  The exact nature is TBD, but some thoughts are to untrap chests in leiu of telekensis and/or accessing additional loot in the chest, removing traps that are protecting the treasure chest itself (Think of a blend between Champ Spawns, The Curse of Oak Island, and the final scene of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade).  This would mean you do not need Detecting Hidden in any context to train/use Remove Trap.
• Reducing SoS to "regular" and "ancient' and providing additional salvage items to be fished up before the chest is recovered and re-balancing the loot in those chests to distinguish them from Treasure Chests.

Merus said:

Personally, and for what I would assume for most treasure hunters, we have already adapted to leaving mining off of our templates since we have the locker.  Adding in RT as the only means to get the new bonus will not be a trade between mining and RT, it will be a trade between another skill (most likely combat related) in order to fit it in.

I am personally not of fan of adding more skill requirements for the sake of mechanics (Cartography, mining, DH, RT, and lock picking) that serve only to find and open a chest.  I just don’t feel like those “mechanics” add to the fun of a map, they just add complexity and some tedium.

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Personally, and for what I would assume for most treasure hunters, we have already adapted to leaving mining off of our templates since we have the locker.  Adding in RT as the only means to get the new bonus will not be a trade between mining and RT, it will be a trade between another skill (most likely combat related) in order to fit it in.

I am personally not of fan of adding more skill requirements for the sake of mechanics (Cartography, mining, DH, RT, and lock picking) that serve only to find and open a chest.  I just don’t feel like those “mechanics” add to the fun of a map, they just add complexity and some tedium.

In reality what you are saying is that the entire T-Map process has been reduced to an exercise in killing the guardians and snagging the loot.  If we remove the "hunt" part of it, all that's left is the treasure.  Half the fun of opening a treasure is the hunt of finding it, somewhere along the way we lost that.  Getting some of that back shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing.

Kyronix said:

@ Drakelord - you need to provide some context if you could to what you are trying to say with the skill screenshots you posted.  What level chests are you doing?  Are you doing them all by yourself with a single character?

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

Sure, I could empty the Hold when I need to engage into Ship combat but it would be a pain having to switch back and forth with the Ship from fishing to going into Ship combat....

Therefore, my question about the need to be able to have more then 1 Ship at Sea per account.... so that I can have 1 for my Fishing quests and another to enjoy Ship combat content that will be provided by the High Seas Update.....

Thanks !

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

Drakelord said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

you have no Med

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Personally, and for what I would assume for most treasure hunters, we have already adapted to leaving mining off of our templates since we have the locker.  Adding in RT as the only means to get the new bonus will not be a trade between mining and RT, it will be a trade between another skill (most likely combat related) in order to fit it in.

I am personally not of fan of adding more skill requirements for the sake of mechanics (Cartography, mining, DH, RT, and lock picking) that serve only to find and open a chest.  I just don’t feel like those “mechanics” add to the fun of a map, they just add complexity and some tedium.

In reality what you are saying is that the entire T-Map process has been reduced to an exercise in killing the guardians and snagging the loot.  If we remove the "hunt" part of it, all that's left is the treasure.  Half the fun of opening a treasure is the hunt of finding it, somewhere along the way we lost that.  Getting some of that back shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing.

I’m just not seeing how training up another skill whose only purpose in the entire process (or game) is to add another layer of complexity for a single character to open a chest adds to the “hunt”.

For solo maps all that you’ve added changed is using remove trap instead of telekinesis... at the cost of 100 skill points.  I don’t see any additional “fun” in that for the solo maps.

For the more difficult group maps, you’ve relegated what was already a tight template (to be both able to dig up the chest, open it, and participate in the fighting) into another mule character that will be brought in on an extra account and hidden off screen while the battle with the guardians takes place.

I do understand that you want treasure hunts to feel like a more immersive experience, I just don’t think adding another skill that will be trained up far from a treasure map and translates into a few more mouse clicks in a context menu accomplishs that.

Perhaps instead of requiring the RT skill, a trap removal kit could drop on one of the guardians corpses.  Like the feather in the belfry.  Just an idea that would mirror the effect you’re talking about to remove the trap without the skill investment?

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

popps said:

"Liked the idea of rebalancing map levels into a small set.  1-5 definitely sounds better than 1-8."

Did I miss anything ? Are there Treasure Maps of Level 8 currently available ?
I thought that Level 7 was currently the highest level T-Map...

Bilbo said:

@ Kyronix

Reducing SoS to "regular" and "ancient' and providing additional salvage items to be fished up before the chest is recovered and re-balancing the loot in those chests to distinguish them from Treasure Chests.

So you are talking about nerfing SOSs, WHY.  1 regular chest and if we get lucky an Ancient SOS.  How about doing the same with SOSs that you are doing with T-Maps and less junk before we get the chest.

I have both a fisher and a t-hunter and really enjoy doing both activities. I also really enjoy doing dread pirate quests. Here are a few of my thoughts on the matter. I've taken ideas from others and in some cases added my spin on the matter.
1. Rare deco items in higher level maps or mibs. I LOVE the idea of getting water tiles!! New deco paintings, barnacle covered ship's cannons (deco only), or barnacle covered anchors could also be added without having to do a lot to graphics that are already in game. It would be fun to fish some of these things up as "recovered from a shipwreck" items. I love the idea of the rare chance of getting small fish with added movement which would greatly enhance water features we build into our houses. Treasures could include high gem count earrings, necklaces and bracelets for the ladies to wear with our gowns to special events instead of a lot of small piles of gemstones. Perhaps these could be found in the ship's strong boxes.   
New paintings would be wonderful and I love the idea of being able to combine a number of mibs to create a new wall map or larger painting. 
2 On the issue of Dread Pirate maps. I would prefer that those be found either in the ship's hold or a strong box as I prefer to turn in my pirates for the rewards. The dread pirate maps could yield chances at getting rares listed above such as pirate flags for houses or ships, single item piles of doubloons, gold plated or gem encrusted items using graphics that are already in game like the silver tray mentioned above, pirate swords or weapons with useful mods that our pirates could use, (revamp the dread pirate hat to give it added worth), special fishing poles so we could go fishing for rare fish without having to enhance them each time we dip our fishing pole into the water.
3. I agree with the idea of streamlining consumables. I do use t-hunting to get imbuing ingredients and gems but really hate having to collect all the single gems found in mibs. Would it be possible to give higher level mage scrolls in the higher level mibs? I love the idea of finding a map to hidden caches where we could get large amounts of the more rare resources. 
4. We can currently bring home the chests we fish up from mibs. Would it be possible to get to bring home some of the chests we dig up from treasure maps? Perhaps some of the chests from Dread Pirate maps could have pirate names on them? These would be great as deco items in our pirate dens or treasure rooms.  
5. By all means, please, please, please fix the mapping system in the CC to more closely reflect the mapping system found in the EC client. At the very least, having the map give the coordinates would be a tremendous boost and the idea of having a square map we could zoom in and out in would be extremely helpful. 
6. I like the idea of having the archaeology skill though I don't think it should replace quite as many skills as suggested above. It would be helpful to streamline the skills necessary for t-hunting since that template is really tight. Perhaps combining detect hidden and/or mining to the cartography skill with a bonus to lock picking to reduce the failure rate in unlocking higher level t-maps. 
Thank you so much for allowing us to share our thought, hopes, and wishes with you. It would be fun to have a greater incentive to do t-maps and mibs. 

Pawain said:

If the higher maps require a group, How is the loot divided?  

Kyronix said:

Bilbo said:

@ Kyronix

Reducing SoS to "regular" and "ancient' and providing additional salvage items to be fished up before the chest is recovered and re-balancing the loot in those chests to distinguish them from Treasure Chests.

So you are talking about nerfing SOSs, WHY.  1 regular chest and if we get lucky an Ancient SOS.  How about doing the same with SOSs that you are doing with T-Maps and less junk before we get the chest.

Who said anything about nerfing SOSs?

Regular chests currently exist as levels 1-3, and pretty much everything that comes out of them isn't worth the time to fish them up - there just isn't that much variation between 1 -3, so why have them?  An ancient offers a little bump, but not much.  I'm talking about boosting the loot in both - but not to the level of what you might find in a newly-revamped T-Map.  The encounters are too different in terms of difficulty to warrant such.

Also - I'm talking about an entirely new list of stuff to fish up before you get the chest.  May be junk to you, but for others its going to be highly coveted decorations and collectibles.  

What is your expectation for SOS loot?

Bilbo said:

Kyronix said:

Bilbo said:

@ Kyronix

Reducing SoS to "regular" and "ancient' and providing additional salvage items to be fished up before the chest is recovered and re-balancing the loot in those chests to distinguish them from Treasure Chests.

So you are talking about nerfing SOSs, WHY.  1 regular chest and if we get lucky an Ancient SOS.  How about doing the same with SOSs that you are doing with T-Maps and less junk before we get the chest.

Who said anything about nerfing SOSs?

Regular chests currently exist as levels 1-3, and pretty much everything that comes out of them isn't worth the time to fish them up - there just isn't that much variation between 1 -3, so why have them?  An ancient offers a little bump, but not much.  I'm talking about boosting the loot in both - but not to the level of what you might find in a newly-revamped T-Map.  The encounters are too different in terms of difficulty to warrant such.

Also - I'm talking about an entirely new list of stuff to fish up before you get the chest.  May be junk to you, but for others its going to be highly coveted decorations and collectibles.  

What is your expectation for SOS loot?

IMHO lvl 1-3 SOSs should be on a par with lvl 1-3 T-Maps (I am referring to current T_Maps).  Reduce the quantity of junk equipment and up the quality just like T-Maps and there is a difference in the lvl 1-3 SOSs as far as # of items and gold.  Unravel SOSs chests and look at the amount/level you get with the 3 main imbuing ingredients.  Yes to NEW stuff to fish up, i will agree to that.  Please DO NOT get rid of the special chests that we sometime fish up, now those are great deco items.

Treasure hunting is long overdue for a meaningful update, though I’d like to see it go a few steps further (more on that later…)

I have no problem with condensing map levels down to something easier to manage, as long as the system is left extensible enough for future updates.

I’m also in favor of a quality v quantity boost to the loot. At this point, I only loot the special items, resources and items the EC tells me will unravel into a relic frag. The rest gets trashed with the chest.  While I don’t think everything in the chest needs to be godly, it’d be nice to open a high-end chest and not go “Meh.” What that means exactly is still open to debate…

I’d suggest greatly increasing the quantity of gems and reagents (from every school) and ditching the scrolls (as they hinder the relevance of scribes). I’d also remove the sash of warding and surge shields (does anyone even use those?), then consider pairing down the mana phasing orbs based on what people are actually using (most are considered worthless).

I also second the suggestion of a small chance of older global event rewards showing up, as if the chest were buried during that time period. These could even rotate based on the month, so in Dec. there was a chance to get old holiday deco or a Krampus recipe, in Feb. it could be old V-Day deco, etc. There could be special themed chests as quest or event rewards, the content possibilities here are endless. (think the pagan obelisk spawning maps)

As far as the skills go, I’m fine with moving the functionality associated with mining and rolling it into cartography. Makes way more sense than mining. I’m also fine with giving a use to Remove Trap, as long as the success chance is greatly improved (right now, you fail way too often at GM). Though some consideration should be given to making training the skill less of a grind (read: nightmare) as finding enough chests to untrap is a pain.

The issue with Telekinesis v RT will be a bit trickier to overcome, mainly because its been the norm for two decades. Change is hard, especially for UO players. However, if the end result is means something new and fun, people can learn to cope. Just don’t create a penalty situation for those who still want to cast telekinesis. Let RT bring a layer that people can skip if they wish to remain in the past.

Regarding solo v group *facepalm emoji* This is an MMO. One of those Ms stands for multiplayer. This isn’t a standalone game you dink around in by yourself. Higher-end content shouldn’t be designed with lone players in mind. I have no problem with a L5 or 6 requiring multiple active participants. We should be encouraging group play and the associated community spirit. I think this goes for all facets of the game. Group play should always be the most advantageous.

Personally, I’d like to see a more National Treasure/Carmen Sandiego/questy-type treasure hunt. Say one of the things in the hidden chest compartments is a piece of a map with a clue on it. Something like: “Mu. 15 south.”  This might require people to do a little bit of research to figure out it means 15 tiles south of the Shrine of Spirituality – where they find another clue in a small cache. Add the map pieces together and they create a high-level map. Caches could even be in towns, though probably not a good idea to spawn guardians there, and dungeons. Heck, open the system to the EMs and they could tailor some to shard-specific lore as events.

Dot_Warner said:

Regarding solo v group *facepalm emoji* This is an MMO. One of those Ms stands for multiplayer. This isn’t a standalone game you dink around in by yourself. Higher-end content shouldn’t be designed with lone players in mind. I have no problem with a L5 or 6 requiring multiple active participants. We should be encouraging group play and the associated community spirit. I think this goes for all facets of the game. Group play should always be the most advantageous.

Pawain said:

Ya tell me that when I stand in a circle for 45 mins to get 3 others.  I'm sure it is worse on smaller shards. Unless all 5 are the same person.

At the end of Krampus we couldn't get others to come kill him.

Bilbo said:

I am not trying to start any crap but why should a top T-Map/chest require more than one person when basically nothing else does.  If they are going to do this with T-Maps then they should consider doing it with all champ spawns or put PSs (all lvls) in FEL T-Maps.  Anything that requires more than 1 person to do needs to have the top tier rewards.

With the following template I can solo level 6 with a couple of deaths.

Magery: 120
Eval Intel: 120
Meditation: 100
Resist Spells: 100
Inscription: 100
Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap: 100
Focus: 80

With some of the purposed changes "Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap" would become "Cartography with Lock Pick swap then with Remove Trap swap then with Detect Hidden Swap"?  Am I reading the thread right?

TimSt said:

With the following template I can solo level 6 with a couple of deaths.

Magery: 120
Eval Intel: 120
Meditation: 100
Resist Spells: 100
Inscription: 100
Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap: 100
Focus: 80

With some of the purposed changes "Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap" would become "Cartography with Lock Pick swap then with Remove Trap swap then with Detect Hidden Swap"?  Am I reading the thread right?

TimSt said:

With the following template I can solo level 6 with a couple of deaths.

Magery: 120
Eval Intel: 120
Meditation: 100
Resist Spells: 100
Inscription: 100
Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap: 100
Focus: 80

With some of the purposed changes "Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap" would become "Cartography with Lock Pick swap then with Remove Trap swap then with Detect Hidden Swap"?  Am I reading the thread right?

Kyronix said:

This illustrates pretty clearly how far off the rails treasure hunting has become.  This isn’t a treasure hunter template.  What I’m suggesting is that while you still will be able to complete some treasure maps with this template, you won’t be able to complete all - at least not with a little help from some friends who utilize the traditional treasure hunting skills as something other than some stone-off skills to go through arbitrary motions.

Faeryl said:

You aren't reading the thread right, as it's been stated several times now that detecting hidden would be separated from remove trap and not required for treasure maps.

Mervyn said:

I think the devs should not feel in any way obliged to make content accessible to lone players. If they’re playing on their own, they’re doing very little to encourage other people to play. 

Make stuff tricky enough to require 5 plus active players (not dual clients), give it a good reward. If people can’t find enough people, they don’t get the reward. It’s called tough..love

And hell yeah @ Bilbo champs should totally also not be able to be solod. 

They could do anything even have NPC vendors that only sell certain necessary items to people in a guild with X amount of active non EJ players online. People will soon be encouraging their friends and family to play. 

TimSt said:

Faeryl said:

You aren't reading the thread right, as it's been stated several times now that detecting hidden would be separated from remove trap and not required for treasure maps.

The detect hidden would be for the proposed hidden compartment.

Mervyn said:

I was opposed to reducing the 24 hour cooldown on soulstones 

Kyronix said:

You wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  I'm saying that outright - if we were to incorporate Remove Trap in any meaningful way, you wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  DH has a well versed use in finding hidden things in quest chains, and in dungeon chests.  We don't need it here.  

@ popps - if you aren't running lockpicking on your TH, how are you opening chests?  Magic Unlock? Skeleton keys?  Please also remember we are talking about removing mining as a requirement, and moving the search radius bonus to cartography - which frees up a skill.

Kyronix said:

TimSt said:

With the following template I can solo level 6 with a couple of deaths.

Magery: 120
Eval Intel: 120
Meditation: 100
Resist Spells: 100
Inscription: 100
Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap: 100
Focus: 80

With some of the purposed changes "Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap" would become "Cartography with Lock Pick swap then with Remove Trap swap then with Detect Hidden Swap"?  Am I reading the thread right?

This illustrates pretty clearly how far off the rails treasure hunting has become.  This isn’t a treasure hunter template.  What I’m suggesting is that while you still will be able to complete some treasure maps with this template, you won’t be able to complete all - at least not with a little help from some friends who utilize the traditional treasure hunting skills as something other than some stone-off skills to go through arbitrary motions.

Dot_Warner said:

Regarding solo v group *facepalm emoji* This is an MMO. One of those Ms stands for multiplayer. This isn’t a standalone game you dink around in by yourself. Higher-end content shouldn’t be designed with lone players in mind. I have no problem with a L5 or 6 requiring multiple active participants. We should be encouraging group play and the associated community spirit.

Dot_Warner said:

Get a Spellweaving III   

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Personally, and for what I would assume for most treasure hunters, we have already adapted to leaving mining off of our templates since we have the locker.  Adding in RT as the only means to get the new bonus will not be a trade between mining and RT, it will be a trade between another skill (most likely combat related) in order to fit it in.

I am personally not of fan of adding more skill requirements for the sake of mechanics (Cartography, mining, DH, RT, and lock picking) that serve only to find and open a chest.  I just don’t feel like those “mechanics” add to the fun of a map, they just add complexity and some tedium.

In reality what you are saying is that the entire T-Map process has been reduced to an exercise in killing the guardians and snagging the loot.  If we remove the "hunt" part of it, all that's left is the treasure.  Half the fun of opening a treasure is the hunt of finding it, somewhere along the way we lost that.  Getting some of that back shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing.

I’m just not seeing how training up another skill whose only purpose in the entire process (or game) is to add another layer of complexity for a single character to open a chest adds to the “hunt”.

For solo maps all that you’ve added changed is using remove trap instead of telekinesis... at the cost of 100 skill points.  I don’t see any additional “fun” in that for the solo maps.

For the more difficult group maps, you’ve relegated what was already a tight template (to be both able to dig up the chest, open it, and participate in the fighting) into another mule character that will be brought in on an extra account and hidden off screen while the battle with the guardians takes place.

I do understand that you want treasure hunts to feel like a more immersive experience, I just don’t think adding another skill that will be trained up far from a treasure map and translates into a few more mouse clicks in a context menu accomplishs that.

Perhaps instead of requiring the RT skill, a trap removal kit could drop on one of the guardians corpses.  Like the feather in the belfry.  Just an idea that would mirror the effect you’re talking about to remove the trap without the skill investment?

Right now the skill has no purpose, which offers a unique opportunity to explore some novel applications for it to become useful in a system that makes thematic sense.  I'm not talking about adding a "few clicks to the context menu" I'm looking at something more immersive and robust than that.  Think along the lines of plague beasts and power generators.  That's where we can add to the hunt.  I'm not saying every chest has it - but think about it?  If I'm a Dread Pirate burying my very best loot, I'm going to make sure that the booty is protected and being a trap expert is going to give you the skills to overcome that protection. 

"Fun" is a subjective perspective.  If there's a trapped compartment inside the chest and I have to figure out a mechanic to gain access to a reward, and my Remove Trap skill is going to offer me a leg up on that mechanic - that's fun to me, may be fun for others, may not be fun for you.  So it's kind of a hard to use "make it fun" as a true barometer.  

I'm confused about your statement here, 

"For the more difficult group maps, you’ve relegated what was already a tight template (to be both able to dig up the chest, open it, and participate in the fighting) into another mule character that will be brought in on an extra account and hidden off screen while the battle with the guardians takes place."

By the very definition of a group map, you are doing the chest with multiple people.  At that point a utility template for participating in the hunt makes sense, but that's not what the encounter is.  Let's break it down...

-You need to decode the map with Cartography.
-You already know exactly where to go to get the chest via Davies locker, or just looking at the map depending on the client you are using.  No real need for mining to help find it.
-You need lockpicking to unlock the chest.
-You don't need anything except telekinesis and 4 tiles to avoid the traps - which means the traps are pointless at this point.
 
So really the only "treasure hunting" is decoding a map you'll know the exact location of, unlocking a locked chest and dry looting it in what is really not very treasure-hunty but rather a combat encounter.  You are 100% right - the T-Hunter is a mule character, moving the needle in the other way to make it a viable and engaging profession is a goal.

The goal should always be to reward skill investment - that's one of the core principles of the game world.  We've gotten too far away from that and moving the needle in the other direction should be welcome.

Pawain said:

Bilbo said:

I am not trying to start any crap but why should a top T-Map/chest require more than one person when basically nothing else does.  If they are going to do this with T-Maps then they should consider doing it with all champ spawns or put PSs (all lvls) in FEL T-Maps.  Anything that requires more than 1 person to do needs to have the top tier rewards.

I think they should be able to be done like they are now.  But if a group must be used.  A group of two is doable.  

There are many T hunters that play solo and have for many years. Many of those do not want to use chat to get help.

Kyronix said:

TimSt said:

With the following template I can solo level 6 with a couple of deaths.

Magery: 120
Eval Intel: 120
Meditation: 100
Resist Spells: 100
Inscription: 100
Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap: 100
Focus: 80

With some of the purposed changes "Cartography with Mining swap then with Lock Pick swap" would become "Cartography with Lock Pick swap then with Remove Trap swap then with Detect Hidden Swap"?  Am I reading the thread right?

This illustrates pretty clearly how far off the rails treasure hunting has become.  This isn’t a treasure hunter template.  What I’m suggesting is that while you still will be able to complete some treasure maps with this template, you won’t be able to complete all - at least not with a little help from some friends who utilize the traditional treasure hunting skills as something other than some stone-off skills to go through arbitrary motions.

Drakelord said:

@ Faeryl

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Little confused here are you running vet or eval?  Stoning off vet for eval?? 

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

Urge said:

Kyronix not to jump off topic but while you're doing this, could you revamp dungeon chests. Maybe detect to find them and make it a little worthwhile to open. Thank you. 

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix Whatever happens, I would LOVE to be able to see the location coordinates ON THE MAP, in CC. Instead of having to write them all down when I take them from the Davies Locker. It is a MESS if you die trying to remember which map belongs with which set of coordinates. But if I am wishing, how about a "grid view" for CC. I hate having to switch to EC just to sort the loot. 🙂

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

I THINK what he is referring to, is the fact that some of the masteries use less mana, etc at 120 real skill as opposed to skill with jewels. One that comes to mind is the taming mastery when using consume damage. The mana upkeep to keep it "running" is much less at 120 with REAL skill in Taming/Lore, as opposed to,say, 90 or 100 real skill, with jewels to get to 120.

Faeryl said:

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

I THINK what he is referring to, is the fact that some of the masteries use less mana, etc at 120 real skill as opposed to skill with jewels. One that comes to mind is the taming mastery when using consume damage. The mana upkeep to keep it "running" is much less at 120 with REAL skill in Taming/Lore, as opposed to,say, 90 or 100 real skill, with jewels to get to 120.

If that's the case... go with say 120 taming and lore and use jewelry to boost another skill up a bit.

There are logical and effective options.

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

KHAN said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

popps said:

Faeryl said:

100 remove trap
100 lockpicking
100 cartography
110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

Honestly... even with remove trap a half decent tamer/mage/treasure hunter is still viable

The problem I see is the masteries needing to work off of real skill, not of items with +skill points...

I'm not sure where you're getting that problem... do the math. What I have listed adds up to 720. Perfectly reasonable. You can add other things like med or some vet or eval with jewelry, or tweak the numbers a bit per what you need, but generally, this is a perfectly viable template, and is basically the one I currently already use, with the exception of remove trap, where I currently have mining. 

As I understand it, you are using

110 taming
110 lore
100 magery
100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

I THINK what he is referring to, is the fact that some of the masteries use less mana, etc at 120 real skill as opposed to skill with jewels. One that comes to mind is the taming mastery when using consume damage. The mana upkeep to keep it "running" is much less at 120 with REAL skill in Taming/Lore, as opposed to,say, 90 or 100 real skill, with jewels to get to 120.

If that's the case... go with say 120 taming and lore and use jewelry to boost another skill up a bit.

There are logical and effective options.

That is exactly what I do. I was just pointing out, that, for once, he was correct. 🙂 You DON'T use their "full potential" at less than 120 real skill.

Faeryl said:100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

Pawain said:

Faeryl said:100 vet or eval...

That is, below 120 skill points.... since Masteries, I understand, are strictly linked to "real" skill points, by having skill points in a given Mastery below 120, that Mastery will not be usable to its fullest potential....

I have seen nothing regarding the masteries where you require 120 to use them to "full potential". 

They're linked to real points in terms of you need 90+ real skill to be able to use them at all. Their power depends on the level of the primer you have.

Completely incorrect. Only some passives are primer based. The mastery cost to run and benefit increase are real skill.  

People like you giving wrong info in this thread are going to make it so casual players that have done maps for 18 plus years are not going to be able to do them.

Please get your facts straight.

It takes all four Bard skills at 120 to get the least mana cost and most benefit.

Here is a calculator for taming masteries. https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

Basara said:

@ Kyronix

I speak as a guildmaster for a THB chapter.

Adding Remove Trap as a REQUIREMENT for T-Maps is a deal-killer. 99.999% of T-hunter templates are too cramped as it is. There's probably less people with it on their characters outside SP & Mugen than you WORK WITH (and if you count people with it on a soulstone, it still probably won't come up to the BS employees + EMs). 

Making Telekinesis not work is perfectly fine, but if someone wants to risk death by popping the chest without removing the trap, they should still be allowed to do so.

As it is, level 2 chests STILL do more damage than any other level (that bug was never fixed - I've seen a level 2 chest (both paragon and map) do 120+ to someone with 70s resists - and have NEVER died to any other level of chest from the trap), and if you could isolate what causes it, perhaps applying that level of damage for all maps level 3-7 would encourage some people to use remove trap. 

Adding the skill as a REQUIREMENT, though (at least for maps level 6 and under), would be as short-sighted as the original High Seas Cannon Supplies coding for making the powder charges from scratch - if not more so. It's a sure-fire way to KILL the profession. It would delay actual USE of the changes to the maps for MONTHS, off the "hard-mode" shards, as NO ONE HAS THE SKILL on those shards, except as a curiosity kept on a display soulstone (often one that they found on an IDOC, not one they can use).

Kyronix said:

Couple of questions I've posed elsewhere and am curious to see your (and anyone's) response...

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

Kyronix said:

Couple of questions I've posed elsewhere and am curious to see your (and anyone's) response...

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

You already know and commented about my template. Thanks by the way.

Remove Trap was the grindiest skill to train my thief on.  I gave up after 72 points and used scrolls of transcendence to reach 100. If I had to add Remove Trap to another character I would skip the training and use a Mythic Character token and some scrolls to get to GM Remove Trap.

To make Remove Trap training easier how about having NPCs sell automatically self trapping training boxes for each skill level and thus remove the need to have carpentry and tinker skills to build, trap, and retrap the box.  You can put a charge on the training box so that the player needs to buy new ones after say 100 attempts. On failure some non-lethal damage is done.

Kyronix said:

Couple of questions I've posed elsewhere and am curious to see your (and anyone's) response...

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

Kyronix said:

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

Kyronix said:

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

If it were a requirement for maps and the loot was bumped to Shadowguard quality, I would expect it to become extremely difficult.

As stands now, it should take no longer than focus.

Kyronix said:

Consider this,

Cartography is not required beyond initial decoding. 
Mining is not required due to advances in UI/Davie's Locker.
Remove Trap is not required because of Telekenesis.  
Lockpicking (in some instances) isn't required.

What we are left with then?  Where's the actual "Treasure Hunter" profession in this scenario?  What distinguishes this particular template from one you can use to fight any other encounter in the game world?

Couple of questions I've posed elsewhere and am curious to see your (and anyone's) response...

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

One of the IDOC loot items could be tokens for IDOC'd soul stones that got trashed for the cleanup points. Prior ownership wiped out so they can be used again.  if no soul stones got trashed then no tokens show up in the loot.

Kyronix said:

Consider this,

Cartography is not required beyond initial decoding. 
Mining is not required due to advances in UI/Davie's Locker.
Remove Trap is not required because of Telekenesis.  
Lockpicking (in some instances) isn't required.

What we are left with then?  Where's the actual "Treasure Hunter" profession in this scenario?  What distinguishes this particular template from one you can use to fight any other encounter in the game world?

Kyronix said:

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

jaytin said:

Dead skills should either be removed or reworked in their own right, not foisted onto over-crowded templates that people worked hard on for years to fine tune them to their needs and play-style. Nobody asked for t-hunting to be revamped, but lots of people asked for the loot to be looked at.

Dizzy said:

Ouch.  I've never had a paragon renegade changeling.  I'd probably have to ask for help on that one.

Swroberts said:

@ kryonix 
If you want to see a great high seas group event stop by this evening at the Catskills New Magencia docks for the weekly Wednesday whitenet Toss, 1930est.. quite a few participants... If in consideration for change, increasing the ancient scroll drop rate or increasing the scalis spawn from 25% would really help support this...

After careful consideration I believe there are better substitutes for the addition of remove trap. As is, the t-hunter has to balance fighting and t-hunting skills. An increase to mobs along with adding another skill would create a disaster to the class and force a single template similar to how the samp became the only fighter template.

I will offer my thoughts of a remove trap rework.

1) the addition of a pirate treasure chest on board ships that could require the remove trap skill. One could use the revamped cannons to slay the pirates and have the needed skills to open the chest. This would perfectly fit into a High Seas theme. 

2) dungeon chests are in desperate need of a rework. Without truly needing fighting skills to open dungeon chests, a true dungeon crawler could indeed fit remove trap and if need be, item id to create a new class of players while making two unused skills worthy.

JollyJade said:

Kyronix said:

Consider this,

Cartography is not required beyond initial decoding. 
Mining is not required due to advances in UI/Davie's Locker.
Remove Trap is not required because of Telekenesis.  
Lockpicking (in some instances) isn't required.

What we are left with then?  Where's the actual "Treasure Hunter" profession in this scenario?  What distinguishes this particular template from one you can use to fight any other encounter in the game world?

Have players expressed being unhappy with their current templates?

I have seen a lot discussion about loot, but little being unhappy not to carry say Lockpicking.

Go ahead, kill the T-Hunters for some highly cosmetical thoughts about dead skills. If I can't do them anymore without using a second account, I will put T-Hunting next to the Haven mines, Despise or everything Eodon except for Shadowguard.

Maybe I'm just playing this game wrong.

Urge said:

...I will offer my thoughts of a remove trap rework.

1) the addition of a pirate treasure chest on board ships that could require the remove trap skill. One could use the revamped cannons to slay the pirates and have the needed skills to open the chest. This would perfectly fit into a High Seas theme. 

2) dungeon chests are in desperate need of a rework. Without truly needing fighting skills to open dungeon chests, a true dungeon crawler could indeed fit remove trap and if need be, item id to create a new class of players while making two unused skills worthy.

I like a lot of what Urge is saying here

Faeryl said:

Honestly, I'm amazed at how many are having a fit over the possibility of remove trap being a requirement and outright denouncing the idea.

Do any of you know how it would be revamped? No? Why not give it a chance on TC if and when it gets there, first?

There are still viable fighting templates that can be made. For the devs to make a skill viable, as so so many people complain about wanting, people have to learn to adapt to said skill becoming a requirement somewhere. "Make it useful but not affect how I have fun" doesn't work. You can't have it both ways. And how would remove trap for treasure hunting not be logical? 

I feel what I'm seeing is a lot of resistance because people want both the maximum reward, and maximum power and ability. But in this case, as it should be to make a certain template viable, a certain skill requirement is necessary. 

Frankly... if you want any "dead" skills revamped as I see people call for a lot, stop demanding that every skill not affect you or your play style. Adapt. Experiment. Stop being so bloody resistant to an idea that has yet to even be tested.

Faeryl said:

Honestly, I'm amazed at how many are having a fit over the possibility of remove trap being a requirement and outright denouncing the idea.

Do any of you know how it would be revamped? No? Why not give it a chance on TC if and when it gets there, first?

There are still viable fighting templates that can be made. For the devs to make a skill viable, as so so many people complain about wanting, people have to learn to adapt to said skill becoming a requirement somewhere. "Make it useful but not affect how I have fun" doesn't work. You can't have it both ways. And how would remove trap for treasure hunting not be logical? 

I feel what I'm seeing is a lot of resistance because people want both the maximum reward, and maximum power and ability. But in this case, as it should be to make a certain template viable, a certain skill requirement is necessary. 

Frankly... if you want any "dead" skills revamped as I see people call for a lot, stop demanding that every skill not affect you or your play style. Adapt. Experiment. Stop being so bloody resistant to an idea that has yet to even be tested.

Drakelord said:

Swroberts said:

@ kryonix 
If you want to see a great high seas group event stop by this evening at the Catskills New Magencia docks for the weekly Wednesday whitenet Toss, 1930est.. quite a few participants... If in consideration for change, increasing the ancient scroll drop rate or increasing the scalis spawn from 25% would really help support this...

what time is this?

730est

Maximus_Neximus said:

I don't want to quote the whole quote tree...

"The quickest fix, not ruffling the feathers of treasure hunters who don't have treasure hunter builds, would be to revamp maps. Let players use cartography to decode maps before going on their dig. Have maps, after they've been decoded, offer the coordinates. Drop cartography and pick up Remove Trap. It's not the most interesting solution and it doesn't bring much High Seas flavor, but it would work."

This assumes that everyone has two soulstones where they can freely swap skills, with one always having cartography or remove trap. While it works for a lot of vets, it probably doesn't work for newer players or those new to treasure hunting.

LilyGrace said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

I don't want to quote the whole quote tree...

"The quickest fix, not ruffling the feathers of treasure hunters who don't have treasure hunter builds, would be to revamp maps. Let players use cartography to decode maps before going on their dig. Have maps, after they've been decoded, offer the coordinates. Drop cartography and pick up Remove Trap. It's not the most interesting solution and it doesn't bring much High Seas flavor, but it would work."

This assumes that everyone has two soulstones where they can freely swap skills, with one always having cartography or remove trap. While it works for a lot of vets, it probably doesn't work for newer players or those new to treasure hunting.

Pretty sure it's vets that are taking issue with rebuilding established characters they use for treasure hunting. :-)  I think a new player would create the character / characters needed to get the job done. They wouldn't have to stone anything.

LilyGrace said:

:-)  I think a new player would create the character / characters needed to get the job done. They wouldn't have to stone anything.

Parnoc said:

My THunter never touches a soulstone, his skills are there and stay there!!

I have no idea how people that switch skills get it done, must take forever to dig just a few maps.

I have never seen a paragon Renegade Changeling..... really?  Would that even be possible to kill?

Parnoc said:

My THunter never touches a soulstone, his skills are there and stay there!!

I have no idea how people that switch skills get it done, must take forever to dig just a few maps.

I have never seen a paragon Renegade Changeling..... really?  Would that even be possible to kill?

Drakelord said:

Swroberts said:

@ kryonix 
If you want to see a great high seas group event stop by this evening at the Catskills New Magencia docks for the weekly Wednesday whitenet Toss, 1930est.. quite a few participants... If in consideration for change, increasing the ancient scroll drop rate or increasing the scalis spawn from 25% would really help support this...

what time is this?

Faeryl said:

Parnoc said:

My THunter never touches a soulstone, his skills are there and stay there!!

I have no idea how people that switch skills get it done, must take forever to dig just a few maps.

I have never seen a paragon Renegade Changeling..... really?  Would that even be possible to kill?

They can get extremely nasty if you happen to get two or three together. More so if one or more spawn paragon.

Last time I tried to solo a level 7 Ilsh map, I had to give up and bail, because my greater dragon could barely scratch it before dying.

Did one with a guildmate once... entire contents of the chest decayed in the time it took us to kill one.

With a larger group and a couple of them spawning initially... lots of death.

Garth_Grey said:

Personally, I think it's ridiculous that mages can cast a spell to open trapped chests, it's right up there with being able to cast RC and then invis, ohhhh the uproar that would start if we got that little piece of sillyness changed while we're at it !!

jaytin said:

There are lots of different t-hunter templates and I wouldn't mock any of them, we all do things in our own way, t-hunting is the last bastion of diversity and I hope it stays that way. I don't have a thief, I don't want a thief and if t-hunting becomes a subset of the thief profession then it won't be something I will be doing any more. T-hunters are not thieves and they should be diverse. Please don't take away our templates and force us all to be the same. 

@kyronix

Increased the likelihood of receiving maritime trade cargo from plunderbeacons, lighthouses will now drop cargo of “Mythical” quality, worth considerably more than any other loot (Note: This will show as a green CliLoc error until a new client is deployed in a future release).

Will the mythical armor also drop on lighthouses located in Blackthorn dungeon?

Swroberts said:

jaytin said:

There are lots of different t-hunter templates and I wouldn't mock any of them, we all do things in our own way, t-hunting is the last bastion of diversity and I hope it stays that way. I don't have a thief, I don't want a thief and if t-hunting becomes a subset of the thief profession then it won't be something I will be doing any more. T-hunters are not thieves and they should be diverse. Please don't take away our templates and force us all to be the same. 

This is a good point... If you want to remain stealthy and steal the guardians loot than RT is necessary... If you want a scortched earth approach, then after you kill all the guardians... Magery should be just fine... At this point lockpicking should be unnessecary and you should be able to bludgeon your way in...

CovenantX said:

perhaps off topic but.... don't forget to add whips somewhere in the next publish.

It'd also be nice to see the multiple types of whips listed in the 'Special's book" instead of just the barbed whip listed 3 times under Whirlwind Attack, and the correct whips listed under the specials associated with them. (bugs)

CovenantX said:

perhaps off topic but.... don't forget to add whips somewhere in the next publish.

Minerva_Foxglove said:

Sorry didnt read every post here did I miss anything about new players that train a T-hunter and are happy for todays 1-3 maps ? Its their little income . We should have something left for them, and chest loot that they actually could use. Same for Fishers. A meaningful Mib chest to fish up during training. 

Merus said:

@ Kyronix

A suggestion regarding adding remove trap as a bonus for loot:

The fun of a treasure maps is not about how many steps it takes to dig up and open a chest... if there is something to be learned from the plant growing process or the cannon firing process it is that simplicity is desired.  Please consider just making a skill check for remove trap when the lock is picked...  

“You fail to pick the lock”
“You pick the lock but fail to disarm the traps”
”You pick the lock and successfully disarm the traps”

If you pick the lock but fail on the trap you could then use the remove trap skill on the chest to try again.

Kyronix said:

Bilbo said:

@ Kyronix

Reducing SoS to "regular" and "ancient' and providing additional salvage items to be fished up before the chest is recovered and re-balancing the loot in those chests to distinguish them from Treasure Chests.

So you are talking about nerfing SOSs, WHY.  1 regular chest and if we get lucky an Ancient SOS.  How about doing the same with SOSs that you are doing with T-Maps and less junk before we get the chest.

Who said anything about nerfing SOSs?

Regular chests currently exist as levels 1-3, and pretty much everything that comes out of them isn't worth the time to fish them up - there just isn't that much variation between 1 -3, so why have them?  An ancient offers a little bump, but not much.  I'm talking about boosting the loot in both - but not to the level of what you might find in a newly-revamped T-Map.  The encounters are too different in terms of difficulty to warrant such.

Also - I'm talking about an entirely new list of stuff to fish up before you get the chest.  May be junk to you, but for others its going to be highly coveted decorations and collectibles.  

What is your expectation for SOS loot?

Kyronix said:

Basara said:

@ Kyronix

I speak as a guildmaster for a THB chapter.

Adding Remove Trap as a REQUIREMENT for T-Maps is a deal-killer. 99.999% of T-hunter templates are too cramped as it is. There's probably less people with it on their characters outside SP & Mugen than you WORK WITH (and if you count people with it on a soulstone, it still probably won't come up to the BS employees + EMs). 

Making Telekinesis not work is perfectly fine, but if someone wants to risk death by popping the chest without removing the trap, they should still be allowed to do so.

As it is, level 2 chests STILL do more damage than any other level (that bug was never fixed - I've seen a level 2 chest (both paragon and map) do 120+ to someone with 70s resists - and have NEVER died to any other level of chest from the trap), and if you could isolate what causes it, perhaps applying that level of damage for all maps level 3-7 would encourage some people to use remove trap. 

Adding the skill as a REQUIREMENT, though (at least for maps level 6 and under), would be as short-sighted as the original High Seas Cannon Supplies coding for making the powder charges from scratch - if not more so. It's a sure-fire way to KILL the profession. It would delay actual USE of the changes to the maps for MONTHS, off the "hard-mode" shards, as NO ONE HAS THE SKILL on those shards, except as a curiosity kept on a display soulstone (often one that they found on an IDOC, not one they can use).

The lack of use for Remove Trap doesn't suprise me - it's been a dead skill almost since its arrival due to the lack of anything of consequence related to traps.

I'd have to disagree with your point of "risking" death.  The amount of "risk" in death is very small, if at all, given the staying power of your loot on a corpse.  Sure there are minor exceptions but in whole death isn't a risk should someone wish to blow themselves up.  The hilarity of the thought is not lost however!

As I've mentioned before were we to make any meaningful changes to Remove Trap the entire skill would be up for balance from top to bottom - this includes removing the requirement for Detecting Hidden in any context, the training path, the success rates, and how the skill behaves within the context of the game world.  This would result in whatever issues currently exist with traps to be resolved in the effort.

I will disagree with your assertion regarding any change as "killing the profession."

Consider this,

Cartography is not required beyond initial decoding. 
Mining is not required due to advances in UI/Davie's Locker.
Remove Trap is not required because of Telekenesis.  
Lockpicking (in some instances) isn't required.

What we are left with then?  Where's the actual "Treasure Hunter" profession in this scenario?  What distinguishes this particular template from one you can use to fight any other encounter in the game world?

Couple of questions I've posed elsewhere and am curious to see your (and anyone's) response...

What is the skill breakdown of your Treasure Hunter before, during, and after the entire Treasure Chest encounter?

Do you participate in Treasure Chest Encounters as a solo activity or in a group?

What items are you most after when it comes to Treasure Chest loot?

Were you to train Remove Trap, regardless of context, what do you feel the training time should feel close to - Cartography? Alchemy? Animal Taming (eep!)

Thanks for the replies!

1. Smash and Grab the present method both solo and with groups. Small advantage to using Remove trap so as not to call for reinforcements (small % chance????)
2. Lure away and sneak back. Remove Trap would help but not absolutely necessary and small groups would be an advantage.
3. Full Thief  Solo play (dig, hide, stealth back, unlock, remove trap, loot )

Tim said:

Full Thief  Solo play (dig, hide, stealth back, unlock, remove trap, loot )

This would really give Thieves something to do as well as making all the content available to people on low population shards or just prefer to play solo. But I can see it still being fun and worth the effort to get a group together.

Tim said:

Full Thief  Solo play (dig, hide, stealth back, unlock, remove trap, loot )

This would really give Thieves something to do as well as making all the content available to people on low population shards or just prefer to play solo. But I can see it still being fun and worth the effort to get a group together.

How would you incorporate map difficulty info full thief solo play?

Kyronix said:

CovenantX said:

perhaps off topic but.... don't forget to add whips somewhere in the next publish.

🙂

ZekeTerra said:

My template is:
120 Taming (with Jewelry)
120 Lore (with Jewelry)
120 Vet (with Jewelry)
110 Magery
100 Cartography
100 Lockpicking
100 Mining

LilyGrace said:

If, because of causing some imbalance to pvp, you can't 

Tim said:

LilyGrace said:

If, because of causing some imbalance to pvp, you can't 

God I was hoping we could get through this without seeing that phrase. 

Any change to the skills under discussion will have changes to PvP and they will whine about it but that is not a reason to not improve the game. The same applies to all other type of game play everybody will adapt and the game will be better. 

Detect hidden is on the anti macro timer for a reason. It, like many of the other skills, were exploited in the past. Any such removal of the timer would cause it to be exploited again.

My namesake here is a thief in the Vice vs Virtue system. Detect is needed to locate the sigals. It can also be used by rival players to locate players like myself, that use hiding. To answer your question if detect hidden is used in Fel? Yes, the developers made it that way.

The timer should stay.

Tim said:

No Problem LilyGrace 

Just the we can't do something because it will upset the PvPs is one of my hot button issues.

Must stop rant here must stop rant ..................................Be good no rant.

Urge said:

Tim said:

No Problem LilyGrace 

Just the we can't do something because it will upset the PvPs is one of my hot button issues.

Must stop rant here must stop rant ..................................Be good no rant.

You need to be tolerant to different playstyles and how others enjoy this game.

Urge said:

Tim said:

No Problem LilyGrace 

Just the we can't do something because it will upset the PvPs is one of my hot button issues.

Must stop rant here must stop rant ..................................Be good no rant.

You need to be tolerant to different playstyles and how others enjoy this game.

Faeryl said:

Parnoc said:

My THunter never touches a soulstone, his skills are there and stay there!!

I have no idea how people that switch skills get it done, must take forever to dig just a few maps.

I have never seen a paragon Renegade Changeling..... really?  Would that even be possible to kill?

They can get extremely nasty if you happen to get two or three together. More so if one or more spawn paragon.

Last time I tried to solo a level 7 Ilsh map, I had to give up and bail, because my greater dragon could barely scratch it before dying.

Did one with a guildmate once... entire contents of the chest decayed in the time it took us to kill one.

With a larger group and a couple of them spawning initially... lots of death.

Kyronix said:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

Couple of things I'd like to mention as we continue the conversation, also disclaimer that none of this is set in stone so if things change down the line - take nothing I say here as firm!

From a user experience point of view, it's clear there is a discrepancy between doing T-maps in the CC vs the EC.  Trying to provide some balance for CC users is something we would have to further investigate to find what solutions we can offer within the context of that client. 

The "blocking the chest" issue is certainly annoying, and something I had a chance to try and dig into when we did the Elemental Titan arc - cleaning up the chest digging process is high on the list.  

As for skills - I'm not keen to start consolidating skills or forcing redevelopment of T-Hunter templates.  Using telekinesis to set of traps has been something that's been done forever - changing that in favor of forcing remove trap isn't likely going to be met with open arms.  That being said providing some extra reward for investing in that skill is more along the lines of how we could address telekinesis.  Someone mentioned secret compartments with special rewards that would get "destroyed" by telekinetic powers - that could work.  I'm not a fan of allowing mages to unlock higher level chests.  Allowing lock picks to craft a lock pick set to allow others to though? That would be a better solution I think.

Someone mentioned swapping mining out in favor of cartography for finding the chest - would have to investigate but it's an interesting idea.

I think we have a situation where some folks like to do treasure maps solo, while others enjoy doing them as a group.  The goal is to preserve this.  It was mentioned here that treasure maps 1-6 should be solo activities while 7+ should be group activities.  I agree with the premise, but that leads me to my next point...

We have too many levels of treasure maps with not enough ability to vary what's inside between each level - sure we can bump intensity and add specialty items, but ultimately we are pretty hamstrung.  I think a situation where we have 5 overall levels of maps would streamline things a bit.  Say 1-3 are solo activities, with 4 and 5 lending themselves to more of a group activity.  Where the current lineup of maps would fall into this new scheme remains TBD, but it illustrates a broader point.  Part of this is having Dread Pirates drop a more flavorful map experience that I teased in my first post.  Looking forward to hearing feedback here.

As far as what's in the chests - it's pretty clear there is a preference for quality over quantity.  One way we could accomplish removing some of the clutter is keeping some of the resource based loot to the lower level chests while preserving the item/equipment based loot for higher level.  This keeps incentive on the lower end maps while keeping the higher end maps free of excess clutter.  This way you could then decide what type of loot you want and do the map accordingly.  This would of course require a balance pass for which creatures drop maps, which has been asked for as well.

As far as T-Map loot (and SoS loot as well) for items - this is complicated.  Deco, recipes, resources, gold, gems etc - that's easy.  For equipment and artifacts it's another story.  We are in a really tough spot when it comes to artifacts, whether they be randomly generated or pre-made.  We constantly run into a situation where the majority of the player base is incredibly well equipped.  This leads to encounters having to balance for the increase player power.  Rinse and repeat, and we get the debilitating power creep we have today.  When it comes to artifacts, unless something has 100% mana leech, a swing speed that can drop down to 1.25 with maxed stamina, and AI it's pretty much "crap".  The same premise applies to a handful of desirable properties for most all templates.  Of course this is a multi-faceted problem that is the result of nearly two decades worth of itemization, but it's arguably the biggest hurdle with keeping player engagement high.  We aren't keen to open the flood gates and start loading treasure chests with clean legendaries but we also recognize that opening a chest to "crap" isn't fun either.  

This is part of a much larger conversation on how to rebalance crafted items vs randomly generated loot vs pre-made artifacts - but in this context it is relevant so I wanted to bring it up.

So at this point - what does that mean for equipment in T-Maps & MiBs?  Well at this point we aren't trying to do a complete redesign of the entire itemization, so don't expect anything too groundbreaking.  We should, however, at least be able to sweeten the chest.

As for SoS chests - adding more deco to the pre-fish is an easy thing to do.  I've got over 100 SCUBA dives on shipwrecks IRL, so I'm sitting on a laundry list of stuff to fish up from the deep.  As for the stuff in the chest, I don't think SoS chests compare really to T-maps in terms of the difficulty of the encounter.  Beyond the acquisition of the MIB itself, getting the chest is pretty easy.  In order to bump the loot in the SoS chest to be on par with treasure chests the encounters would have to bump to compensate - something I don't think many fishers (including myself) are keen on.  Will have to think about some novel ways to make naval treasure more interesting.

I think that's it for now - look forward to your comments!
Please keep the option to solo higher level t maps alive as not all of us enjoy playing the game with a group. The idea of better loot is amazing and long overdue for sure.

Cazador said:

@ Kyronix the power creep is soley your guys fault. I don’t know if was due to lack of testing, or lack of time looked at the system and noticing it was dropping 12 mod Max Intensity jewls. The problem now is like you say. Making things useful in that element becomes very tough as you’ve stated. There isn’t much you do other than revamp all the mobs and balance out hp/stam/int to higher values tbh, which would include a rebalance if damage outputs etc..not worth it. Resists are irrelevant, most mods are irrelevant, and what I mean is getting caps isn’t very difficult. Imbuing was a nice system, but it became stale once it was “beat” so you added reforging, also a semi ok system. A lot of RNG but kept crafters crafting. Then you introduced 10MOD legendaries. It killed crafting overnight. So with that being said. There isn’t much you could add to treasure loot that would give much incentive to revamp it other than a few 30-40 people who THunt and RP. The vast majority of us won’t ever roll a THunter. It’s not worth the investment when we can virtually stand afk at roof, abscess, underwater boss and get easy legos. I’ve tried to think of fun additions to add to make it worth doing. It always comes back to legendaries that’s what people seek. Or items of similar strength. 🙁

Uriah_Heep said:

They should reverse the pwer creep, lighten up items spawning by 5%, wait a month, lighten up mobs 5%, rinse and repeat.  Until it gets back to a liveable level.  And cut every gold drop by 25% while at it.\

• Barbed Whip of Plundering
• Bladed Whip of Plundering
• Spiked Whip of Plundering

Pawain said:

@ KHAN @ Captain_Lucky @ other guy asking.

We may get these as a reward but I cant find the notes of todays update.

• Barbed Whip of Plundering
• Bladed Whip of Plundering
• Spiked Whip of Plundering

Pawain said:

@ KHAN @ Captain_Lucky @ other guy asking.

We may get these as a reward but I cant find the notes of todays update.

• Barbed Whip of Plundering
• Bladed Whip of Plundering
• Spiked Whip of Plundering

Pawain said:

@ KHAN @ Captain_Lucky @ other guy asking.

We may get these as a reward but I cant find the notes of todays update.

• Barbed Whip of Plundering
• Bladed Whip of Plundering
• Spiked Whip of Plundering

Kyronix said:

Guess you'll have to wait and see - as I've mentioned we've got a deployment plan for whips, very exciting stuff! 😂

Kyronix said:

Guess you'll have to wait and see - as I've mentioned we've got a deployment plan for whips, very exciting stuff! 😂

Captain_Lucky said:

Pawain said:

@ KHAN @ Captain_Lucky @ other guy asking.

We may get these as a reward but I cant find the notes of todays update.

• Barbed Whip of Plundering
• Bladed Whip of Plundering
• Spiked Whip of Plundering

Wait. What? Did I even comment in this thread? lol

Parnoc said:

How do you open the Maritime Cargo chests?

Kyronix said:

That's not your cargo! You can't open it!

Kyronix said:

Wait and see!  The Rising Tides are-a rising!

KHAN said:

Kyronix said:

That's not your cargo! You can't open it!

We figured out to go to Buc's! 🙂 Will there be any different/more "rewards" other than the 3?

Uriah_Heep said:

They should reverse the pwer creep, lighten up items spawning by 5%, wait a month, lighten up mobs 5%, rinse and repeat.  Until it gets back to a liveable level.  And cut every gold drop by 25% while at it.\

hunter11 said:

or a tamer so sick of the crying this forum is a terrible idea and i feel sorry for the moderators 

Bilbo said:

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

Sure, I could empty the Hold when I need to engage into Ship combat but it would be a pain having to switch back and forth with the Ship from fishing to going into Ship combat....

Therefore, my question about the need to be able to have more then 1 Ship at Sea per account.... so that I can have 1 for my Fishing quests and another to enjoy Ship combat content that will be provided by the High Seas Update.....

Thanks !

Deed the fish and take them to your bank or house.