UO - Anti-new player?

I am going to second the opinions expressed here.

UO is terribly unfriendly to new players.  This can be for various reasons, and those listed above are a good start.

Vet rewards are a problem.  I understand their purpose.

However, at what point does a system full of fun, interesting, exciting items actually deter new players?  The moment they realize they will never earn them.  No matter what they do.  This is a completion barrier.  It is something MMO players (especially those willing to play a 20 year old game that brings less of the flash and dynamic tech to the table) do not deal with very well.

Now, I suspect the general idea at EA is "Milk it as long as you can and then shut the doors when its not making any money"  I get that.  The challenge of refreshing this game seems almost insurmountable.  Does that mean Broadsword should give up trying?  I don't know.  I honestly cannot say what is in their best interest.  because in the end, I do not fault BS for making decisions that keep them in jobs.

However, it seems like turning new players into avid players could be a key to maintaining the official existence of the game.  And as of now, there is way too much standing between a new player and the decision to keep coming back.

Brother, as a player on and off since ‘98 I hear you. I could have 20 year rewards now if I kept an active account. I could have legacy pets if I ever imagined they wouldnt treat pets like other items and revert them upon updating. Items? OMG what a joke. I never realized the mempo of fortune would never come back. But just like in 99 (or whenever) i spent points on hair dye... never knowing phoenix armor would be worth so much someday. I play uo when I get bored of other grinds. I get a few hundred mil and realize this game is still a lost cause. Until they make a pre-aos shard I will be a 3 month a year player. God help the complete noobs, any any returning players coming back from the early ‘00s 

The major problem with that mentality Ivenor is that its not about "putting the effort into obtaining something."  There's absolutely no way, going forward, new players can have some of the same perks that vets have.  None.  Zilch.  Its about "Playing at the right time", which is, to be honest, off-putting.

((Below are mine answers to remarks 1 and 3.   My period of play is 2000-2007, 2015-2019)).

Mervyn said:

1) Why does some people having prepatch pets affect a new players ability?

I have been playing for 20+ years and don't use a pre-patch pet.

(a) Mine main tamer uses a pre-patch Mare, also has a Dread, but the nightmare is a far better fighter since it was a two slots when I trained it up.  I used that Mare for most of my major battles on Sonoma.  I mainly kept the Dread because of its Trick.  Todays Mares are three slots, same as the Dread was.  Yet the Dread was a far better pet back then.  I really wished they had NOT messed with legacy pets.  I also wish they give a token at the store to reset a pet after training as I was never really happy with training up the Dread those two more slots.

3)Vet rewards I thought can now be used by any age account. Most of them are vanity also.

(b) There is a vet reward that cannot be used by any account, only if that account is old enough to get them as the vet reward is account bound.  Shard Transfer shields.

I am campaigning very hard for greater transparency in this game for new players and the latest introduction of the "last parry chance" is a step in the right direction. Things are very slowly moving in the right direction.

(c)  Keep up the good work there.

Xare said:

The major problem with that mentality Ivenor is that its not about "putting the effort into obtaining something."  There's absolutely no way, going forward, new players can have some of the same perks that vets have.  None.  Zilch.  Its about "Playing at the right time", which is, to be honest, off-putting.

Drakelord said:

((Below are mine answers to remarks 1 and 3.   My period of play is 2000-2007, 2015-2019)).

Mervyn said:

1) Why does some people having prepatch pets affect a new players ability?

I have been playing for 20+ years and don't use a pre-patch pet.

(a) Mine main tamer uses a pre-patch Mare, also has a Dread, but the nightmare is a far better fighter since it was a two slots when I trained it up.  I used that Mare for most of my major battles on Sonoma.  I mainly kept the Dread because of its Trick.  Todays Mares are three slots, same as the Dread was.  Yet the Dread was a far better pet back then.  I really wished they had NOT messed with legacy pets.  I also wish they give a token at the store to reset a pet after training as I was never really happy with training up the Dread those two more slots.

3)Vet rewards I thought can now be used by any age account. Most of them are vanity also.

(b) There is a vet reward that cannot be used by any account, only if that account is old enough to get them as the vet reward is account bound.  Shard Transfer shields.

I am campaigning very hard for greater transparency in this game for new players and the latest introduction of the "last parry chance" is a step in the right direction. Things are very slowly moving in the right direction.

(c)  Keep up the good work there.

Exactly: ONLY ONE.

Ivenor said:

I partially disagree, WATDR. Beside SSs all the other game items, pets, etc. are for sale for GPs in-game. The only point is to find a way to gain enough GPs.

What UO SURELY should have is an in-game organized system of new player support, on this I agree totally.

Look at it from a new player perspective.  They train up a character.  Kill something hard, that drops like 3-4k gold.  How many of those mobs does he have to kill to buy some of these unobtainable items?  12,500+ for a nightmare, based on a quick Stratics search for price ranges.  How long will that take?  Let's assume Pinkerington's numbers are a good guess, 500k an hour.  So for a 50m PP Mare, he's farming for 100 hours.  How is that better than a player being able to just go tame one?

Xare said:

Ivenor said:

I partially disagree, WATDR. Beside SSs all the other game items, pets, etc. are for sale for GPs in-game. The only point is to find a way to gain enough GPs.

What UO SURELY should have is an in-game organized system of new player support, on this I agree totally.

Look at it from a new player perspective.  They train up a character.  Kill something hard, that drops like 3-4k gold.  How many of those mobs does he have to kill to buy some of these unobtainable items?  12,500+ for a nightmare, based on a quick Stratics search for price ranges.  How long will that take?  Let's assume Pinkerington's numbers are a good guess, 500k an hour.  So for a 50m PP Mare, he's farming for 100 hours.  How is that better than a player being able to just go tame one?

How much did WE farm back then? I remember, back in 1998, DREAMING to be able to afford a DARN TENT HOUSE!!!  😂

And of course MMOs and UO hasn't changed in the slightest in the past 21 years. 

Xare said:

Ivenor said:

I partially disagree, WATDR. Beside SSs all the other game items, pets, etc. are for sale for GPs in-game. The only point is to find a way to gain enough GPs.

What UO SURELY should have is an in-game organized system of new player support, on this I agree totally.

Look at it from a new player perspective.  They train up a character.  Kill something hard, that drops like 3-4k gold.  How many of those mobs does he have to kill to buy some of these unobtainable items?  12,500+ for a nightmare, based on a quick Stratics search for price ranges.  How long will that take?  Let's assume Pinkerington's numbers are a good guess, 500k an hour.  So for a 50m PP Mare, he's farming for 100 hours.  How is that better than a player being able to just go tame one?

Not to mention the hundred or so hours it takes to make a char good enough to control the mare.  The time and effort to get the power scrolls etc. 

I am not arguing for anything to be easier.  Just equalizing opportunity. For the best experience. 

Ikeelu said:

come back and find out that the devs nerfed that super rare limited item by releasing an easily farmed new item with better stats.

Xare said:

Ikeelu said:

come back and find out that the devs nerfed that super rare limited item by releasing an easily farmed new item with better stats.

Both sides of this sentence are just plain wrong in terms of enjoy-ability for players.  New players shouldn't be excluded from things just because they did not join the train when everyone else did.  Hell, at this point, its possible some of them weren't even alive to join the train. 

This isn't about better stats on new items, its about the limited time only items, pets, and abilities that newer players are just blocked from, either through the runaway inflation or simply inability to obtain anymore, at all.

You miss the irony I guess. The game is broken and it can never be fixed. 

Just know that no legacy pet will ever compete with a chiv/ai cu.

There are no legacy items needed for an endgame samp

The only unfair advantage in game is shard shields. 

To keep my blood presser down I'll try to limit myself to just the topic of Vet rewards. 

Veteran Rewards were and are suppose to be a thank you from the producers for long term players sticking around. Would you say someone who shows up for the last 100 yards of a marathon should should get the prize for finishing it?

BUT there should be some changes.

• Items that have real game use like sewing machines should be moved to first year or moved out of the Veteran Reward system.

• Return the account age limit on the use of everything else. Do you have any pride in riding a Serpentine Dragon when anyone with a credit card can get one too? I sure won't when I get "old" enough to get one. The same goes for the house decorations.

UO is a LONG term game and will alway take time to master. With the skill and stat. point limits a new character will be a "good" as a 20 year vet within a month. The only advantage the older player will have is things which is the whole point of the game. 

At that point he/she can decide whether to accumulate the stuff them selves or just buy them.

Xare said:

I've been spending some time lately thinking about how to best bring new players to UO, and the biggest problem (read: hurdle of insurmountable heights) that is brought up is the fact that UO is anti-new player.  I'll gloss over the inability to find guides that are current, that's the community's fault for not providing them.  What makes this an issue are the following items:

1) Legacy pets.  Based on uo-cah, the highest intensity a training pet will get is somewhere around 8750, assuming it spawned at max intensity in everything.  Pipe dream alone right there, but statistically, it can happen.  

Let's look at what legacy pets can do. 

Legacy Nightmare, Trained intensity rating: 9192 - 9541, 4-800 more points.  For comparison, that's around 150-260 health.  Or 800-1600 more mana.

Legacy White Wyrm:  Trained intensity rating: 9185 - 9592.  Roughly the same 4-800 points.

Let's also look at pets that can no longer be tamed:

Bane Dragon: Trained intensity range: 8585 - 9355

Dread Warhorse: Trained Intensity Range: 8585 - 9355

Basically, no new player can EVER have a pet tamed by themselves that comes even close to this. This is NOT RIGHT.

2) Items no longer obtainable.  See this thread.  Not much more to say there. 

3) Vet rewards:  Does anyone really think a new player who starts his account will see a 20 year vet reward?  At this point, we're pandering to the people who can't move on.  My account is 9 years of active service.  There's no doubt in my mind that I'll ever be able to use even the 15 year rewards.  The new rewards on test center as being less than 10 years are a step, but perhaps its time to consider removing vet rewards and making them obtainable through other means, or allowing players to purchase time.

I know there's several other items that we've ignored.  Perhaps its time we started focusing on making this game that we all (supposedly) love to be more open to new players, rather than creating limited time events, items, and pets that were only available to those who played during that time.  I'm looking at you Halloween events, Christmas events, and 20th anniversary story line.

While I can agree on points # 1 and 2 I cannot on point # 3 Vet Rewards....

Why not ?

Because there is PLENTY Veteran Rewards for lower Years.

The Vet Rewards being added anew for this Year will be for Years 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 and 10.

So, a player starting anew DOES HAVE lots and lots of Veteran Rewards to claim as their account time progresses.

Top Years Veteran Players, nonethtless, are fully justified, to my opinion, to have THEIR own top Years Rewards because, after all, it is THEM who have been the "backbone" of Ultima Online support over these Years....

My point being, that it is quite important, to my opinion, that a Business needing to "plan" ahead can have at least a number of long timers' accounts which have been kept active all over these Years to base the amount of available resources on which to them plan expansion for Ultima Online over time....

Having the ability to count on a number of accounts which are kept as active for 20 and then 21 Years and then 22 Years I think it as important because, no matter how few, they are STILL "some" resources that look moreless possible to be counted on...

Therefore, I find it just fair and beneficial that the Company running Ultima Online was to thank these long timers active accounts with Veteran Rewards specific to those Years.

Furthermore, more and more Veteran Rewards, I noticed, require a high Year active account to be claimed but can then be used by any account....

So, frankly, to have Veteran Rewards that can only be claimed by "Top" Active Accounts Years I see it beneficial for Ultima Online, its upkeek and Development and a good business decision when coupled with a whole lot of other Veteran Rewards for also the lower active account Years.

The "highest" Year Veteran Reward is for 10th Year active account....

I sure hope that next Year there will be a Veteran Reward claimable by 22 Years old active Accounts only, for the reasons above explained....

There are no veteran rewards, other than the serpentine dragon mount, requiring 20 years of subs to claim. The devs stopped adding year requirements at year 15 and started adding items to lower years instead.
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/veteran-rewards/

@Xare, go ahead and tell yourself whatever you want. The Cu Sidhe is the only tameable with healing, it is also rideable. You can feed it fruit which is neat for certain instances. Chivalry is proven to be highest damage output 1v1. So as far as catch all pet Cu is it. Sure I prefer a beetle on the team, if there is a team... also the Cu works for all current endgame content. You can die and come back to a Cu still fighting because of it’s healing. Honestly I don’t think you have a clue about pets. Intensity means nothing! Skill combos are mo-betta. If beetles could get chiv/rune/ai they would prob be top pet regardless of cu healing. 

GLHF

Ikeelu said
The Cu Sidhe is the only tameable with healing.

Um... no it isn’t.

Lions and triceratops have healing 

A new players biggest handicap is that they know nothing compared to seasoned vets.
You know nothing John Snow!  (sorry couldn't help throwing that in there)
Lets face it,  with the complexity of todays game the more you know the better off you will be.  UO is a knowledge based game first,  skill second.

Legacy pets,  Vet rewards,  Rare items....  All of that is chump change compared to the guidance from a knowledgeable  vet. 
Yes all of those are nice perks but none of them are required to excel in whatever goals they set out to achieve.

The best advise any of us could give a new player is to join an active guild and ask questions.

All that being said.  Are they going to be around in 14 years to claim shard shields? 
Most likely not but you never know
I use shard shields as an example because it's the only Vet reward that they can not purchase from another player and use.  Who remembers the days when a new player couldn't use ethies unless they were old enough?  Thankfully they changed that.
Are they going to change shard shields?  I highly doubt it. 

 Of course i wouldn't be opposed to them buying up to that point as suggested by others.  
A first year Account ponying up over $2,000 to become a 14 year vet account would do well to help fund our addictive game.  What do they say about a fool and his money?  I must admit that i've been that fool on more than one occasion with this game and to be honest,  I would be tempted to buy up one or more of my secondary accounts if that option was ever made available.

@psycho EJ accounts have way more access then the old trial accounts did and we already have ghost cams back with EJ Accounts so please no to allowing EJ Accounts to get resources other then the basic or we will see resource scripters running free accounts.  I have not see a resource bot in years.

Best advice for a new player is to turn around... This game is not even working on closing the gap, it keeps introducing items that widen the gap every other event... 

They can cater to the rare pixel crowd, which are already there and spending money;
or they can cter to new players, which are not here and very uncertain if coming at all.

So they go with the first. But of course it does not bring you new players when you have to tell them on day one "You can never get those OP items unless you pay me or my friends $$$".

Lucky are those that don't know and just play 🙂

Bilbo said:

@ psycho EJ accounts have way more access then the old trial accounts did and we already have ghost cams back with EJ Accounts so please no to allowing EJ Accounts to get resources other then the basic or we will see resource scripters running free accounts.  I have not see a resource bot in years.

"I opened a bar last year. There was always a chance that a guest would drink too much and start a fight. So instead of employing security I just left the bar closed all the time. That potential guests of mine spent their money somewhere else, but at least I didn't have to pay the security."

Story of UO

Many posts have been removed from this thread. Some for topicality issues, some for Terms of Service violations and some merely because they were in response to a post that was removed and was left without context.


Please keep the conversations civil and courteous even in disagreement.

I don't know the fix but I heard a new player say "There's stuff on search that cost millions of gold!". Yeah....

stuff costing more is a natural progression as a game gets older. there has to be some change in how much gold is dropped, or in the value of current gold.  IE, add two zeros to the gold pile in every loot table, or take a couple of zero's off everyone's bank accounts/vendor balances.  not that i want or even think it will happen, but that is about the only way to balance things for new players to have an equal footing. or the new people can listen to us old farts and learn how to make money the fastest. Either one will work, just one takes dev time, the other takes player time.  

JollyJade said:

Bilbo said:

@ psycho EJ accounts have way more access then the old trial accounts did and we already have ghost cams back with EJ Accounts so please no to allowing EJ Accounts to get resources other then the basic or we will see resource scripters running free accounts.  I have not see a resource bot in years.

"I opened a bar last year. There was always a chance that a guest would drink too much and start a fight. So instead of employing security I just left the bar closed all the time. That potential guests of mine spent their money somewhere else, but at least I didn't have to pay the security."

Story of UO

Talk about a stupid analogy.

There were no errors on post removal. This was explained. 

Rorschach said:

There were no errors on post removal. This was explained. 

Xare said:

Rorschach said:

There were no errors on post removal. This was explained. 

You've officially made my day.  Thank you.

On topic, I'm going to attempt the summarize what I've read here.

(numbers not related to orginal post, just... I like to number things.)

1)  The gold inflation has caused some distress to new players, however, it can be overcome, either by playing 50-100 hours (prolly a month for most people) or by getting lucky on a drop and selling it.

2)  It appears as if the dev team has taken the approach of providing content (items, quests, pets, etc) to players who have been here for a long time.  I believe this is basically using the player's mentality against them.  ie, "Well, I've spent this much time and money, may as well stay."  This appears to be in contrast to the focus on how to provide new players with a better experience. 

Note the use of appears in #2.  I'm NOT casting stones at the dev team.  Not saying their choices are wrong, just stating it and trying to see if there's a better way.

3) It is not possible to have a thread that does not get derailed or off-topic and then moderated.  I think that speaks to the level of frustration that players feel; ie, they feel as if they're not being heard, so they have to vent at every opportunity they can, rules be damned.

So how can we fix this?  What are the ideas to make this game a more enjoyable experience for new players?  I'm aware that if we nerfed prepatch pets, there would be hell from the players who have been here the longest, and could incite them to cancel.  Maybe introduce new pets that are comparable?  I'm just grasping at straws here. 

What's everyone else's useful suggestions?

The thing with Ultima Online, is that it is a World with MASSIVE amount of content BUT dated graphics....

I mean, the amount of things possible to do in Ultima Online are mind boggling.....

Frankly, I cannot think of any other game out there where it is possible to enjoy the same content that Ultima Online has....

Yet, the Graphics is what it is....

Now, "usually" new players are attracted from the "looks" so, having outdated Graphics for UO is not exactly something that could attract much new players...

UO's strengths, to my viewing, is the massive amount of things which can be done in it.

Inflation is surely a problem but, luckily, MMOs are places where the fun is in the Journey, not in the Destination since there is nothing to really win, players can just play in UO and take their time with things.....

Almost every point in this thread is aweful. 
1 creating a new server divides the population further and will be a waste

2 the items and pets OP speaks of, are luxeries and collectibles, with very little practical advantage

Xare said:

I've been spending some time lately thinking about how to best bring new players to UO, and the biggest problem (read: hurdle of insurmountable heights) that is brought up is the fact that UO is anti-new player.  I'll gloss over the inability to find guides that are current, that's the community's fault for not providing them.  What makes this an issue are the following items:

1) Legacy pets.  Based on uo-cah, the highest intensity a training pet will get is somewhere around 8750, assuming it spawned at max intensity in everything.  Pipe dream alone right there, but statistically, it can happen.  

Let's look at what legacy pets can do. 

Legacy Nightmare, Trained intensity rating: 9192 - 9541, 4-800 more points.  For comparison, that's around 150-260 health.  Or 800-1600 more mana.

Legacy White Wyrm:  Trained intensity rating: 9185 - 9592.  Roughly the same 4-800 points.

Let's also look at pets that can no longer be tamed:

Bane Dragon: Trained intensity range: 8585 - 9355

Dread Warhorse: Trained Intensity Range: 8585 - 9355

I'm one of the Admins of uo-cah.  You are misunderstanding something about Legacy pets.  All legacy pets are magical pets.  That means 1500 intensity is used on Magery, which isn't very good for PvM and anyone who understands taming understands you don't want to keep Magery on a PvM legacy pet.    That 1500 intensity is a lot of skill points used that are not gotten back when you pick chiv or mysticism.

A lesser hiryu, hiryu or CU can be spec'd out as good or better as a legacy pet.  The whole point of the desirability of the legacy animals is it puts an innate magical pet on the same ground as those that spawn with out.   I look at adjusted intensity when comparing animals, if you removed the innate magical ability from an animal what is the intensity?  Because that is essentially what you have to build off of.

So if you take a look at adjusted intensity at the max possible spawn:

1 slot lesser Hiryu: 8709 
Hiryu: 8274
Cu Sidge: 8263
Legacy White Wyrm: 8092
Legacy Nightmare: 8041

Legacy animals are not the issue, the cost of Magery/Eval/Necro/Spirit is.  But that is a different complicated issue.

You do not need a legacy wyrm, nightmare or bane dragon to compete.  In fact I would suggest if you are a new player to pick a Hiyru for Chiv/AI.   They are awesome pets and end up with a ton of intensity.  It could be argued that they are in fact better than a legacy pet because many legacy pets have dragon breath and they can attain much higher health. 

Something else to think about, you talk about this game being new player unfriendly, it's also returning player friendly.  The sale of legacy animals helps fund returning players so they can get on a more equal footing when they return.

Question asked is UO anti new player... answer is no they want the new player why do you think EJ was added?  
To encourage new people to try the game and in hopes the time they take to get to know the world they will want to sub and stay.  
Waiting for old players to return is a bit long in the tooth. 
Oh so many I know have gone to the happy hunting ground (passed away).  
Some lost the battle with their mates who were not game literate, one I was told by his wife it was UO or his whole family... even his mom and dad got in with her on this.  
The younger of the 97 of players are drifting in and out... but to be honest its not the game who is killing off the young nor is it the rewards... 

They come in and see al of us with all we have earned or made over years.. you have to admit if you came in the game now as a new player.. it would be wow how can I get that...
One of you said its not fair to be in game for 20 years and have all those vet rewards, castle or keep, plat up the kazoo.  Yes it looks like that to them as if we flaunt what we got at them. 
NOW comes the BUT:
We who have been here earned them... I will not be cowed by the people who want what I have and sit here saying they deserve without putting in the time things for just paying for a few months. I was here ..Where were you?  
I will not hand to a new guy things they will have no reguard for in a few weeks after they get them...  let me put this in perspective that 55 mil vanity mount will be down to under a mill in weeks.
Months later all we sell will be cheap, plat will be worthless.  
Yes that Is a risk your looking at.   
Personally id like to see a pre full contact Trammel game noobie shard.   Sorta like EJ but only allowed there is newbies.  With training grounds that help them learn the game and skills.  At say 6 months or 700 skill points which ever comes first  they are notified by an ingame message. Bank will go with of course.  Mow they can opt out and go strait to the shard of choice. 
To me a time in game away from us might keep them in game longer.  

Nice write up @Lady_Storm

Lady_Storm said:

Personally id like to see a pre full contact Trammel game noobie shard.   Sorta like EJ but only allowed there is newbies.  With training grounds that help them learn the game and skills.  At say 6 months or 700 skill points which ever comes first  they are notified by an ingame message. Bank will go with of course.  Mow they can opt out and go strait to the shard of choice. 
To me a time in game away from us might keep them in game longer.  

Lady_Storm said:

We who have been here earned them... I will not be cowed by the people who want what I have and sit here saying they deserve without putting in the time things for just paying for a few months. I was here ..Where were you? 

You've earned stuff that you were lucky enough to have been playing when it came out and now doesn't spawn/occur/whatever anymore?  Why should new players be prevented from even having the CHANCE to get the same stuff you have?  I'm not saying hand it to them on a silver platter, but make it possible!

UO is anti new player. I can’t think of another MMO that limits skill and stat gain to items obtained through non-consensual PvP. The best items in game are hardly consistently farmable and unless you’re skilled not farmable at all. If you’re on ATL you can gather imbuing resources to sell on a vendor to save and buy what you need but you are likely burned out by then. EJ is massively restricted but if it wasn’t everyone but castle having hoarders would be free to play. This game is alive because a few die-hards talked EA into letting them run it. The current playerbase is mature and spends enough money on sovereigns that EA just let’s it roll. Nobody is stumbling onto UO and starting, every new player is likely returning and with that they easily get upset about the current game state or the grind that has been implemented. 

UO is anti returning player. People will continue to pop in, maybe pay a month and leave. At least the die-hards have their privilege and “time invested” protected and that is important. 

Xare said:

Lady_Storm said:

We who have been here earned them... I will not be cowed by the people who want what I have and sit here saying they deserve without putting in the time things for just paying for a few months. I was here ..Where were you? 

You've earned stuff that you were lucky enough to have been playing when it came out and now doesn't spawn/occur/whatever anymore?  Why should new players be prevented from even having the CHANCE to get the same stuff you have?  I'm not saying hand it to them on a silver platter, but make it possible!

They can have everything I own alls they have to do is pay 20 years worth of dues.

I feel to save the game a basic policy of NOTHING useful in the game should have only one source. The exception being decretive items. I don't mean they should be the same item but along the line of "Bearing the Crest of Blackthorn" items. Same powers but different forms, name, and look.

Before you start screaming I'm not saying easer I'm saying different. The extreme example is power scrolls if I don't like PvP for what ever reason give me another way to get them even if it is harder. At least then it would be my choice and I wouldn't blame the game so much.

A player who feels the game is stacked against him and is being told how he must play the game is not a player for long.

Simply amazing how the socialist get on here and whine how unfair UO is and demand everything that the people that supported this game for 20 years with little or no time invested.  EA/BS/DAoC/UO please do not cave into these people.

Bilbo said:

Xare said:

Lady_Storm said:

We who have been here earned them... I will not be cowed by the people who want what I have and sit here saying they deserve without putting in the time things for just paying for a few months. I was here ..Where were you? 

You've earned stuff that you were lucky enough to have been playing when it came out and now doesn't spawn/occur/whatever anymore?  Why should new players be prevented from even having the CHANCE to get the same stuff you have?  I'm not saying hand it to them on a silver platter, but make it possible!

They can have everything I own alls they have to do is pay 20 years worth of dues.

This comment by Bilbo is the attitude and thought process that drive away returning players. Good for us casuals we have nothing to lose if the game goes under. 

Ikeelu said:

Bilbo said:

Xare said:

Lady_Storm said:

We who have been here earned them... I will not be cowed by the people who want what I have and sit here saying they deserve without putting in the time things for just paying for a few months. I was here ..Where were you? 

You've earned stuff that you were lucky enough to have been playing when it came out and now doesn't spawn/occur/whatever anymore?  Why should new players be prevented from even having the CHANCE to get the same stuff you have?  I'm not saying hand it to them on a silver platter, but make it possible!

They can have everything I own alls they have to do is pay 20 years worth of dues.

This comment by Bilbo is the attitude and thought process that drive away returning players. Good for us casuals we have nothing to lose if the game goes under. 

So you know every player that has quit UO and they all told you this.  Just another baseless comment with no data to back it up.  I could have sworn that you were a power player with your 900 PSs a month and Millions of gold every week doing BODs

 I play an hour a day at most. That’s enough time to do about 5 spawns. When that gets boring I mine. When that gets boring I do BoDs. Some nights I’ll do a roof, some nights I’ll log in and walk away. It doesn’t require a power gamer to make millions. If I was retired and all crusty with nothing to do but play UO I’d maybe be a power gamer but I’d quickly remember I needed to get a life. 

Lady_Storm said:

Personally id like to see a pre full contact Trammel game noobie shard.   Sorta like EJ but only allowed there is newbies.  With training grounds that help them learn the game and skills.  At say 6 months or 700 skill points which ever comes first  they are notified by an ingame message. Bank will go with of course.  Mow they can opt out and go strait to the shard of choice. 

Instead of a pre full contact Trammel game noobie shard how about letting young players into Felucca and having them play under the Trammel rule set there. They can go to the champ spawns with experienced players and not worry about getting pk'd while learning how to play the game.  Because of the lack of risk they would not get the 120 scroll drops or legendary's.

And they get one "oops I did not mean to revoke my young status because I thought I was ready to fight pk'ers." chance to become young again.

Lady_Storm said:

Question asked is UO anti new player... answer is no they want the new player why do you think EJ was added?  
To encourage new people to try the game and in hopes the time they take to get to know the world they will want to sub and stay.  
Waiting for old players to return is a bit long in the tooth. 
Oh so many I know have gone to the happy hunting ground (passed away).  
Some lost the battle with their mates who were not game literate, one I was told by his wife it was UO or his whole family... even his mom and dad got in with her on this.  
The younger of the 97 of players are drifting in and out... but to be honest its not the game who is killing off the young nor is it the rewards... 

They come in and see al of us with all we have earned or made over years.. you have to admit if you came in the game now as a new player.. it would be wow how can I get that...
One of you said its not fair to be in game for 20 years and have all those vet rewards, castle or keep, plat up the kazoo.  Yes it looks like that to them as if we flaunt what we got at them. 
NOW comes the BUT:
We who have been here earned them... I will not be cowed by the people who want what I have and sit here saying they deserve without putting in the time things for just paying for a few months. I was here ..Where were you?  
I will not hand to a new guy things they will have no reguard for in a few weeks after they get them...  let me put this in perspective that 55 mil vanity mount will be down to under a mill in weeks.
Months later all we sell will be cheap, plat will be worthless.  
Yes that Is a risk your looking at.   
Personally id like to see a pre full contact Trammel game noobie shard.   Sorta like EJ but only allowed there is newbies.  With training grounds that help them learn the game and skills.  At say 6 months or 700 skill points which ever comes first  they are notified by an ingame message. Bank will go with of course.  Mow they can opt out and go strait to the shard of choice. 
To me a time in game away from us might keep them in game longer.  

I agree with all you have said. I do understand things can be overwhelming for now gamers but whith i have I earned. I am willing to help new people get started and have offer gold and to take new players along on my hunts so they can earn gold. Don't be jealous or angry with me because I worked hard to get what I had and it took years. I know UO is not perfect but it has many good things going for it.

maybe there could be a system message announcing the arrival of (chars name) in the city of (city of creation) for any new char created... and the people who liked to help could go assist that char. 

I know that when you first create a char, that they are in the Help channel. I stay in General Chat and would never see a message in the Help channel. So if a message popped up, I could switch to there and see if I could help. And as soon as I safely could, I would go see if I could assist them.

Tim said:

I feel to save the game a basic policy of NOTHING useful in the game should have only one source. The exception being decretive items. I don't mean they should be the same item but along the line of "Bearing the Crest of Blackthorn" items. Same powers but different forms, name, and look.

Before you start screaming I'm not saying easer I'm saying different. 

***The extreme example is power scrolls if I don't like PvP for what ever reason give me another way to get them even if it is harder. ***

At least then it would be my choice and I wouldn't blame the game so much.

A player who feels the game is stacked against him and is being told how he must play the game is not a player for long.

But you already have it: gain enough GPs in some any other way you like, and buy them form Vendors.

I don't think my point was understood.  The New players need to be AWAY from us the older player base for a bit.   Give them a sense of growing up in the game.  
Think of your early days. Fo

As for my 21 years in UO. I never walked off for more then a few days at best all the years I have played this game I paid full cost most of it. You try to maintain 54 + accounts for as many years as I have then you can talk about what the younger players deserve,  I paid in my time, money, and heart and soul in keeping UO alive.  I served you all as a Counselor back in the day. I have given to the new tons of gold, suits books hell you name it to help them stay.  The only thing I cant give them is my years in the game.  Sure you can buy a old account... but can that give you the years of experience and the knowledge of those years I learned? 
NO
You act as if your time is short and you will never get to that age where you can have such...
Question is it that you want it before you kill it off? I say put in the time then I will say you earned it. Not a minute before.  Hell there is the point. Play UO years flow by.  As long as you desire the things I have you need to play the game. Period.  IT wont die off or disappear if you put in the time. 

I have a good tip for helping new players.

DONT GIVE THEM ANYTHING.

Sounds mean but listen. I used to suit and boot people, the guild would provide them with whole suits, all 120s and stat scrolls etc (we are a pvp guild so luckily have these in abundance). And the new people would after a very short time lose interest in the game. And yeah you feel like you wasted your time and resources on them. But if you make the new people get the items and powerscrolls themselves, they tend to appreciate them more and have a goal to achieve, and more of a reason to play.

We made the mistake of giving people everything so it felt like they had achieved everything in the game and lost interest. 

Ivenor said:

Tim said:

I feel to save the game a basic policy of NOTHING useful in the game should have only one source. The exception being decretive items. I don't mean they should be the same item but along the line of "Bearing the Crest of Blackthorn" items. Same powers but different forms, name, and look.

Before you start screaming I'm not saying easer I'm saying different. 

***The extreme example is power scrolls if I don't like PvP for what ever reason give me another way to get them even if it is harder. ***

At least then it would be my choice and I wouldn't blame the game so much.

A player who feels the game is stacked against him and is being told how he must play the game is not a player for long.

But you already have it: gain enough GPs in some any other way you like, and buy them form Vendors.

1. I said Power scrolls were the extreme example. I was referring to everything other the just vanity items.
2. Power scrolls aren't on vendors on most shards (were we need the new players)
3. Is a new player going to hang around long enough grinding low level spawns to earn the millions needed?
4. Realistically you are saying the new player should go to www.AnybodyButAvatar.com 
5. I prefer to get things in the game my self but thats just me.

Mervyn said:

We made the mistake of giving people everything so it felt like they had achieved everything in the game and lost interest. 

I want to point this out.  A new player thought they had everything after some gear and PS.  Doesn't that speak to the lack of engaging content more than anything else?

Lady_Storm said:

I don't think my point was understood.  The New players need to be AWAY from us the older player base for a bit.   Give them a sense of growing up in the game.  
Think of your early days. Fo

As for my 21 years in UO. I never walked off for more then a few days at best all the years I have played this game I paid full cost most of it. You try to maintain 54 + accounts for as many years as I have then you can talk about what the younger players deserve,  I paid in my time, money, and heart and soul in keeping UO alive.  I served you all as a Counselor back in the day. I have given to the new tons of gold, suits books hell you name it to help them stay.  The only thing I cant give them is my years in the game.  Sure you can buy a old account... but can that give you the years of experience and the knowledge of those years I learned? 
NO
You act as if your time is short and you will never get to that age where you can have such...
Question is it that you want it before you kill it off? I say put in the time then I will say you earned it. Not a minute before.  Hell there is the point. Play UO years flow by.  As long as you desire the things I have you need to play the game. Period.  IT wont die off or disappear if you put in the time. 

I don't mean to be disrespectful; you've spent a hell of a lot more money and time in this game than I have, but this entire post feels very "I invested the time and energy into this; you can't have it until you do the same."  Why shouldn't some of the older items and rewards be available to newer players?  So what if they haven't put in the same level of time as you; its a perk that could be enjoyable rather than something they may or may not be able to see.  "Oh here's this nice pretty castle with a full collection of shard shields.  No you can't use them right now, but maybe in 15 years you can!"  "Oh, you like my nightmare?  Shame, you'll have to heavily invest in gold to ever get one." 

@Xare, there is no reasoning with this crowd. These are the people that have never left UO. No matter how bad the game got, they didn’t leave. They are not back for a trip down memory lane... it’s everyday life for them. They are the workers at a beach resort just watching people come and go. Let them have the game, just buy the items you need to solo rock roof, realize the game is still bad, and quit to play Kerbal Space Program. 

Mervyn said:

Along the lines of the above, I would say that the UO population is like a barrel of beer. All that's left today is the dregs at the bottom, poisoning the container for any new batch poured in.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, the devs need to listen to the players less and think for themselves. The players are often worst people to ask about what is good for the game.

...says arguably the most contrary forum visitor known for his universally hated suggestions. Oh the irony.

Xare said:

Mervyn said:

We made the mistake of giving people everything so it felt like they had achieved everything in the game and lost interest. 

I want to point this out.  A new player thought they had everything after some gear and PS.  Doesn't that speak to the lack of engaging content more than anything else?

Lady_Storm said:

I don't think my point was understood.  The New players need to be AWAY from us the older player base for a bit.   Give them a sense of growing up in the game.  
Think of your early days. Fo

As for my 21 years in UO. I never walked off for more then a few days at best all the years I have played this game I paid full cost most of it. You try to maintain 54 + accounts for as many years as I have then you can talk about what the younger players deserve,  I paid in my time, money, and heart and soul in keeping UO alive.  I served you all as a Counselor back in the day. I have given to the new tons of gold, suits books hell you name it to help them stay.  The only thing I cant give them is my years in the game.  Sure you can buy a old account... but can that give you the years of experience and the knowledge of those years I learned? 
NO
You act as if your time is short and you will never get to that age where you can have such...
Question is it that you want it before you kill it off? I say put in the time then I will say you earned it. Not a minute before.  Hell there is the point. Play UO years flow by.  As long as you desire the things I have you need to play the game. Period.  IT wont die off or disappear if you put in the time. 

I don't mean to be disrespectful; you've spent a hell of a lot more money and time in this game than I have, but this entire post feels very "I invested the time and energy into this; you can't have it until you do the same."  Why shouldn't some of the older items and rewards be available to newer players?  So what if they haven't put in the same level of time as you; its a perk that could be enjoyable rather than something they may or may not be able to see.  "Oh here's this nice pretty castle with a full collection of shard shields.  No you can't use them right now, but maybe in 15 years you can!"  "Oh, you like my nightmare?  Shame, you'll have to heavily invest in gold to ever get one." 

It could also speak to the fact that a lot of people try UO without even reading up on it and have very little knowledge of what to do.

Ikeelu said:

@ Xare, there is no reasoning with this crowd. These are the people that have never left UO. No matter how bad the game got, they didn’t leave. They are not back for a trip down memory lane... it’s everyday life for them. They are the workers at a beach resort just watching people come and go. Let them have the game, just buy the items you need to solo rock roof, realize the game is still bad, and quit to play Kerbal Space Program. 

If this game is so damn bad what does that say about you.  I enjoy the hell out of UO but alls you can say is UO is garbage/bad so why the hell are you even playing.  You total negative post do more harm for this game then EA/UO has ever done.

@Bilbo truth hurts I’m sure you have a framed picture of your castle right next to the NAMs you got for doing nothing but leeching off society for 20 years. Keep up the great work, you are an excellent UO ambassador yourself! 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh that's a good one Ikeelu!  
I play UO for one reason  I enjoy it.  21+ years its still a good game.   But I am one of a group of players who value a good experience and look forward to the next time I am able to play. I don't get bored with my toys, I learned early on to savor what you got as it might disappear the next time you blink.  We are of a different generation.. the game is not the problem its the new kids on the block who don't give a rats behind on anything that has that kind of staying power. They want new exciting and lasts less then 6 months.  That's their time frame for growth

@Lady_Storm the new kids you speak of keep your fantasy world alive, you should just thank us for stopping in now and again. 

ah if you ask a few people they think I keep UO running ….  when you can pay what I do then you can speak. those kids are doing the EJ and getting bored and off they go in under 6 months

Ikeelu said:

@ Xare, there is no reasoning with this crowd. These are the people that have never left UO. No matter how bad the game got, they didn’t leave. They are not back for a trip down memory lane... it’s everyday life for them. They are the workers at a beach resort just watching people come and go. Let them have the game, just buy the items you need to solo rock roof, realize the game is still bad, and quit to play Kerbal Space Program. 

Bilbo said:

Ikeelu said:

@ Xare, there is no reasoning with this crowd. These are the people that have never left UO. No matter how bad the game got, they didn’t leave. They are not back for a trip down memory lane... it’s everyday life for them. They are the workers at a beach resort just watching people come and go. Let them have the game, just buy the items you need to solo rock roof, realize the game is still bad, and quit to play Kerbal Space Program. 

If this game is so damn bad what does that say about you.  I enjoy the hell out of UO but alls you can say is UO is garbage/bad so why the hell are you even playing.  You total negative post do more harm for this game then EA/UO has ever done.

Sometimes when people are angry or upset they are not able to see things from different points of views. I have been playing for more than 18 years and still love playing the game, even when I am pk'ed while doing stuff in fel, I don't like it as I am sure no one likes it, but it is the chance you take when going to fel. I hear people spout negative things about UO, but I am not going to be defined or made to feel a certin way by other peoples experiences. I am not saying that these feelings or experiences are not valad, but that I have my own feelings and experiences. I know this game is not perfect but there are lots in this game to appeal to most. Some will not like it as I do or like what I like and that is okay. What is not okay is to try to ruin it for someone else. We can all share our opinions and even what we think is wrong with the game and what our solutions to issues that we believe needs to be addressed in the game. This is a discussion board/web site so lets be adults and discuss the issues without name calling and belittling each other. All points are valid to the person trying to make it, it may not be correct but it is still valid. If I had any choice I would love to play UO all the time but we all have Real lives. my whole point is if all you have are negative feelings and memories about Uo and and you see no future then maybe you should consider leaving.

Tim said:

Ivenor said:

Tim said:

I feel to save the game a basic policy of NOTHING useful in the game should have only one source. The exception being decretive items. I don't mean they should be the same item but along the line of "Bearing the Crest of Blackthorn" items. Same powers but different forms, name, and look.

Before you start screaming I'm not saying easer I'm saying different. 

***The extreme example is power scrolls if I don't like PvP for what ever reason give me another way to get them even if it is harder. ***

At least then it would be my choice and I wouldn't blame the game so much.

A player who feels the game is stacked against him and is being told how he must play the game is not a player for long.

But you already have it: gain enough GPs in some any other way you like, and buy them form Vendors.

1. I said Power scrolls were the extreme example. I was referring to everything other the just vanity items.
2. Power scrolls aren't on vendors on most shards (were we need the new players)
3. Is a new player going to hang around long enough grinding low level spawns to earn the millions needed?
4. Realistically you are saying the new player should go to www.AnybodyButAvatar.com 
5. I prefer to get things in the game my self but thats just me.

Ikeelu said:

@ Bilbo truth hurts I’m sure you have a framed picture of your castle right next to the NAMs you got for doing nothing but leeching off society for 20 years. Keep up the great work, you are an excellent UO ambassador yourself! 

LMAO What truth, that you are an angry little 10 year old stomping his little feet trying to get everybody to believe your BS.  How could that possibility hurt me in fact I find it very funny reading your posts please keep up the BS.  Back to leeching off of society collecting my 3 retirement checks a month.

This is thread serves no purpose at this point. It started in a bad place and went worse fast.