The Road to One Client ?

Most people i know who use the Enhanced client use it for the user interface and features, but does anyone actually prefer the graphics on the Enhanced Client over the Classic Client?  With the new changes to Classic Client, i can see it becoming much more popular to the again, and possibly become what i had always hoped for.  The Classic art, but with the features of the EC. 

The changes they made to CC are still PALE in comparison to how you create Macros in EC.  The CC settings and macro screens are terrible in design and very difficult to even see.  The EC interface for Macros is so much better than the few macros they added to CC.

This is an old argument on par with who was the better artist Rembrandt or Picasso. There is no answer that will please everybody.  To get a meaningful answer you should have included "graphics do not really contribute to my choice of client" (my vote).

Also remember to look at number of votes before drawing any conclusions. 

I prefer the CC in all ways, even with the weird "artifacts" that leave weird trails behind etc screen tearing at the edges when moving through a densely populated area, the atrociously old (but I still like it a lot) UI and being able to put my spell / weapon skill icons all over the place. If you want to get into an area I'd rather discuss though, I'd like to hear/see some updated music. I didn't like about anything from Ter Mur musicwise. Well the Stygian Abyss had some cool tunes. And fix the music to Britain, if I leave the town, that music needs to stop. As it is, it just goes on and on and on and on and on. And make Tokuno fun. I don't even know the lay out of Homare-Jima/whateverelse-jima . Or any -jima really. I barely know Makoto-Jima / Zento . The rest of this game is like burned into my memory, I can hardly stand travelling around Tokuno stuff. I like the dungeons, and still do a trav run from time to time, but overland is just a boring mishmash of frustrating yawnery that typically ends with me just looking through a rune library for the places of interest. If you need to blow another city up, please blow Luna up and rebuild it, or whatever else, and consider most of Tokuno as well. Leave Zento alone, it never hurt nobody. Also, this thread is amazing. Love you guys/gals.

There is only one way we could go to one client and that would be to allow the player base to pick which client design and which graphics they care to look at.  IMHO the EC is a better client but the CC has the better graphics.  Take the ZOOM out of the EC when viewing CC graphics because I understand that it really messes them up and maybe, just maybe we could get to one client with multi graphic selections, hell maybe find a way to get KR graphics in there too..

ZekeTerra said:

The changes they made to CC are still PALE in comparison to how you create Macros in EC.  The CC settings and macro screens are terrible in design and very difficult to even see.  The EC interface for Macros is so much better than the few macros they added to CC.

i agree, but its in its infant stages.   personally, i believe the EC macros are currently borderline cheating in what you can do with lua scripts (totally legal and independent of a third party program).  personally i think LESS macroing than whats available in EC would make for a more engaging game.

Poll is not looking good for EC

If they take eather one out the people playing the one taken out will quite.

I have not been able to get the cc to work on my computer for years. So if its taken away i would be leaveing becasue i cant play.

At this point 18 votes
If that's a fare sample of the player base UO is in real trouble 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't think the graphics are a big factor in most players client choice.

Tim said:

At this point 18 votes
If that's a fare sample of the player base UO is in real trouble 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't think the graphics are a big factor in most players client choice.

That is a major reason why almost all CC users give as a reason so yes it is a major factor, just because it has a very nice UI does not mean we are all running to use it.  If it is not the graphics then please tell us what you think is keeping people from not using the better UI and please do not say because all CC users use 3rd party program.

Human nature being what it is I would guess momentum and laziness. If you have limited game time and what you have is working why learn a new way? 

To be perfectly honest even with a high res monitor I can't see much difference between the two.

Tim said:

At this point 18 votes
If that's a fare sample of the player base UO is in real trouble 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't think the graphics are a big factor in most players client choice.

I voted CC graphics above but to be honest I don't really care anymore. I also hated the EC graphics and that kept me from switching for a long time until I forced myself to play EC for a week and after that I was used to it. Now I don't mind anymore. What REALLY bugs me though  when I go back to CC now is how wobbly and laggy the whole thing is compared to the absolute smooth way the EC runs. THAT is the No.1 reason why I stick to EC now.

Everytime I hear someone say something bout the cartoonish graphics in the CC, I just close my eyes and picture the EC Hiryu and laugh...

Bilbo said:

Tim said:

At this point 18 votes
If that's a fare sample of the player base UO is in real trouble 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't think the graphics are a big factor in most players client choice.

That is a major reason why almost all CC users give as a reason so yes it is a major factor, just because it has a very nice UI does not mean we are all running to use it.  If it is not the graphics then please tell us what you think is keeping people from not using the better UI and please do not say because all CC users use 3rd party program.

I can not use the EC because it gives me a headache and makes my eyes hurt within a few minutes.  Looking at a screen shot can do the same.

Also I do not like how dragons, Cu Sidhe, and Hiryus look in the EC.

I’m not joking or being flippant
 If just switching from CC to EC causes headaches talk to your doctor next time you see him. It may be nothing but it may not. No I’m not a doctor but the change in graphics should not be causing headaches eye strain maybe but not headaches. 
For the eye strain when was the last time you had your eyes checked?

Tim said:

I’m not joking or being flippant
 If just switching from CC to EC causes headaches talk to your doctor next time you see him. It may be nothing but it may not. No I’m not a doctor but the change in graphics should not be causing headaches eye strain maybe but not headaches. 
For the eye strain when was the last time you had your eyes checked?

He is not the only one that gets headaches from using EC. There is a big difference between the two clients... I have been told that Pinco's UI has an option that fixes that but I can't download it on my computer....

As for eye strain and having eyes checked... I have had light sensitive eyes since I was a teenager, maybe that's why EC bothers me so much. I have no clue but I do know that Luna looks pretty in CC and in EC the tiles look dirty (I think big differences like that, is why my eyes hurt after playing it for awhile)

================================
I do know other people who think the same way, about it hurting their eyes. I wish it didn't hurt my eyes, there is so much I like about the client

I won’t ever play Ultima at less than 120 frames per second again. The solvency for this issue is for the devs to spend some time on a “Classic Client Mode” in Enhanced Client that just changes all of the art work and menus to the old style at the click of a check box. 

I love the feel and don’t mind the graphics of EC so much, but the EC refuses to run well on my pc. I don’t have the money to upgrade it, and I can run 3 clients of CC just fine. So I stick with cc and just run EC for t-maps and BODs. 

Caitlyn_Snow said:

I love the feel and don’t mind the graphics of EC so much, but the EC refuses to run well on my pc. I don’t have the money to upgrade it, and I can run 3 clients of CC just fine. So I stick with cc and just run EC for t-maps and BODs. 

Tim said:

I’m not joking or being flippant
 If just switching from CC to EC causes headaches talk to your doctor next time you see him. It may be nothing but it may not. No I’m not a doctor but the change in graphics should not be causing headaches eye strain maybe but not headaches. 
For the eye strain when was the last time you had your eyes checked?

I wear glasses and have eye dr insurance so I see him yearly. 

I am nearsighted so I can play with or without glasses.

I am not the only one that gets headaches from the EC.  I brought it up to Mesanna at a meet and great and she says they are aware of it.

I heard that playing EC causes infertility issues.  

Pawain glad you have checked in to it. I was thinking about that case in Japan a few years ago when a game was causing convulsions in kids. The last report I remember about it was that some of the first cases were from undiagnosed epilepsy. 

Being Canadian I'm not sure how insurance comes into it 

Not only does EC look bad but it can also cause seizures?

@Tim if you can not see the difference between the CC and EC graphics then you need to go see your eye doctor ASAP before telling use to go see ours.

I think this poll is useless because it fails to catch the main reason people choose between the clients. And no, do not bring graphics as a reason, UO was never hot on graphics and been the mmo game with over 20 years of age only shows it. Many more games with way better graphics failed miserably to catch players attention and did not survive a fraction of years UO has. It really comes down to if you use third party mods/scripts or not. With EC you dont have to, with CC you do, being those either legal or illegal. Just be honest with yourself and admit it. Just my 2 cents into the whole mix of things 

Let me rephrase that
I don't see any meaningful difference as in two paintings of the same landscape look the same.

CC = lag, hitching, screen tearing, stuttering

EC = runs smooth

I prefer EC

Even thought i prefer how EC graphics look, i actually agree that graphics are the last reason why people are switching clients. But i would hate to see (once again) better graphics getting ditched again like when UO:KR graphics were a thing...


You will get maybe about 100 votes in this thread, hardly does represent the playerbase.

The CC all the way. If they put all their efforts into modernizing it, it shall be glorious.

I absolutely love this thread...to sit and laugh at it actually. This is strictly my opinion, but I firmly believe that maybe 5% of the population really does have an issue with the EC as far as not liking the graphics, or even those claiming dizzyness/seizures/fits/etc...I didn't care for it either when I first downloaded on a computer so old it had no business running it, but then I stepped back into the 21st century and bought a new one (I know I know, you can't afford a new one, yet you manage to log in to UO every day of your life and pay for 15 accounts) once I got a decent computer the EC plays wonderfully. I also firmly believe the majority of CC only users are doing it for nefarious reasons. I grew up on CC like most others, but it is absolutely NOT the better client and you guys know it. I don't expect anyone to be honest and upfront, but what irks me is when you make up lame reasons why you "only every play CC and will quit if they discontinue it". Just sit back and quietly read threads like this and be happy you still have your client at all. If you guys think for one moment that the devs don't know exactly to the number why 95% of CC users are actually playing the cc, you're all high. The proof is in the meta data that was captured when they made us agree to that little file sniffer a long time ago, unless I missed the part where they changed their mind and removed it. But keep these threads going please..they're hilarious to read. And before I get reported, I'm not pointing fingers or mentioning anyone by name, I'm not..merely my opinion, which I'm entitled to, and for the record, I voted EC. 

Garth, what if a lot of your base assumption is just plain wrong?

CC IS the better client, end of story, for no other reason, that it just performs better on all fronts. I've tried EC many times, it's just a different game, looks, plays, feels horrendous.

It's not about money or PC (don't try and put down CC users like that, it's insulting and incorrect), it's not about cheating in pvp, don't feel you have to make up excuses for us, or "logical" reasons to explain why we don't kowtow to your way of thinking. We have our own way of thinking, based on our own intellectual thought processes. It's you who fails to see the full picture.

Now regarding nefarious CC, I don't use too much that is nefarious (nothing in pvp ((I have used scripts for crafting)), but what is interesting, is the "nefarious" side of CC, shows exactly what can be done, to make it outperform even EC, so why is CC being so shackled back in the first place? I don't think we should have it all, I think the "nefarious" stuff goes too far, BUT, we should have equality, and stop being fed lies that CC cannot do this, and EC is better. NOW this stuff is being built in, like I always said it could be.

What I would like, is equality, (and CC does not hold EC back in any way, this is just the latest excuse from EC users, like "the CC code is too mangled" that they've been pushing for the last 10 years). Now EC users have just upgraded their excuse. Why do you all feel the need for these excuses? Insecurity? You know our argument is stronger?

I would also like to know, what is legal, and what isn't legal. Some of the stuff CC users use, just gives them parity to EC, so why is it a problem in the first place? Some does go too far.

If the legal stuff were built into CC, it makes it easier to define the illegal stuff.

But it is hard to define what is legal, and what is illegal, when EC can do it, and it's legal, and it is not built into CC, but when CC users use third party software to achieve the same goal, it is illegal. That is all a bit of an unequal argument - and it Is one that has been used to keep CC down for a long time.

and ps. regarding nefarious stuff, I am not even really sure of what you may be referring to. I don't think many are, except a few win at all costs pvpers.

Garth_Grey said:

 I also firmly believe the majority of CC only users are doing it for nefarious reasons. I grew up on CC like most others, but it is absolutely NOT the better client and you guys know it. I don't expect anyone to be honest and upfront, but what irks me is when you make up lame reasons why you "only every play CC and will quit if they discontinue it". 

I take offense to this.  Not all CC users are hackers and cheaters.

I might add, some of us like the CC better because its like the old blanket we still keep.

OR, it mnight be because we can do spawns with macroed targetting and not be constantly targetting ghost mobs which are just standing around for some reason and probably always will be.

Or, we might not like the super duper graphics of EC (hiryu comes to mind).

Or we might like books...

There's a lot of reasons to like CC other than cheating

While opinion, supposition and conjecture can be fun, let's keep it friendly.

As I said, I started with CC like everyone else, I now play EC because I know it's the better client. I don't experience this ghosting everyones complaining about. Is the ec buggy ? Yep, and you shouldnt have taken offense to my comment if you know you're not guilty. I said a majority of users, and it's my opinion but I still stand by it.

Garth_Grey said:

As I said, I started with CC like everyone else, I now play EC because I know it's the better client. I don't experience this ghosting everyones complaining about. Is the ec buggy ? Yep, and you shouldnt have taken offense to my comment if you know you're not guilty. I said a majority of users, and it's my opinion but I still stand by it.

At least I don't have headaches and throw fits while I hack and cheat...  Keep the CC!

Draike said:

I think this poll is useless because it fails to catch the main reason people choose between the clients. And no, do not bring graphics as a reason, UO was never hot on graphics and been the mmo game with over 20 years of age only shows it. Many more games with way better graphics failed miserably to catch players attention and did not survive a fraction of years UO has. It really comes down to if you use third party mods/scripts or not. With EC you dont have to, with CC you do, being those either legal or illegal. Just be honest with yourself and admit it. Just my 2 cents into the whole mix of things 

So according to you all CC users are scripters and you know for a fact that graphics have nothing to do with it.  Thank you for that remarkable insight.

Garth_Grey said:

I absolutely love this thread...to sit and laugh at it actually. This is strictly my opinion, but I firmly believe that maybe 5% of the population really does have an issue with the EC as far as not liking the graphics, or even those claiming dizzyness/seizures/fits/etc...I didn't care for it either when I first downloaded on a computer so old it had no business running it, but then I stepped back into the 21st century and bought a new one (I know I know, you can't afford a new one, yet you manage to log in to UO every day of your life and pay for 15 accounts) once I got a decent computer the EC plays wonderfully. I also firmly believe the majority of CC only users are doing it for nefarious reasons. I grew up on CC like most others, but it is absolutely NOT the better client and you guys know it. I don't expect anyone to be honest and upfront, but what irks me is when you make up lame reasons why you "only every play CC and will quit if they discontinue it". Just sit back and quietly read threads like this and be happy you still have your client at all. If you guys think for one moment that the devs don't know exactly to the number why 95% of CC users are actually playing the cc, you're all high. The proof is in the meta data that was captured when they made us agree to that little file sniffer a long time ago, unless I missed the part where they changed their mind and removed it. But keep these threads going please..they're hilarious to read. And before I get reported, I'm not pointing fingers or mentioning anyone by name, I'm not..merely my opinion, which I'm entitled to, and for the record, I voted EC. 

And yet another know-it-all that says CC users are nothing but cheaters.

Garth_Grey said:

 I also firmly believe the majority of CC only users are doing it for nefarious reasons. I grew up on CC like most others, but it is absolutely NOT the better client and you guys know it. I don't expect anyone to be honest and upfront, but what irks me is when you make up lame reasons why you "only every play CC and will quit if they discontinue it". Just sit back and quietly read threads like this and be happy you still have your client at all.

 I actually do not have any "nefarious" reasons for preferring CC.. I honestly believe EC is so ugly it is mind boggling they let that thing woggle into existence at all, and I am glad that I have a client at all to play it on, and yes, I'd quit the moment they shut down support for CC, unless there is a true graphical equivalent or upgrade for it. I prefer the UI as well, but I can live without it if there were no other way. EC graphics = no thanks. I'll take a graphicless m.u.d. over EC any day.

Cookie said:

CC IS the better client, end of story, for no other reason, that it just performs better on all fronts. 

That is simply not true. One of the biggest complaints of CC advocates over the years was that EC performs better and they can't compete with EC players. EC runs smoother without the migraine inducing stutter at every step, and has UI that is not from the dawn of computing age. The only thing CC has over EC is the looks which is quite subjective, and access to illegal scripting software. Neither should be a reason to get rid of the more modern client.

I can not use the EC because it gives me a headache and makes my eyes hurt within a few minutes.  Looking at a screen shot can do the same.

AMEN @Smoot

Seth said:

I can not use the EC because it gives me a headache and makes my eyes hurt within a few minutes.  Looking at a screen shot can do the same.

Also I throw up everytime I see images of Swampy, Horse, and Hiryus, etc (most graphics) from the CC.

The CC Swampy was called the Cucumber since day 1 when Todd created, by the larger community. I wasn't the first to call it this. The EC Swampy looks like the traditional Chinese dragon, which obviously look much better.

The CC Hiryu looks like the old classic F-16 plane with its wings stretched flat both sides, and white and red colors. The EC looks correct with its long swirling tail (I like the animation in 3D). In PVP, the EC Hiryu looks menacing.

Anyway, not many players use UO.com forum. Do this poll on the game client for 3.5 months and see. This will ensure at least they login and see the poll.

Smoot said:

@ Uriah_Heep

totally agree with what you said.  saying only reason people use the classic client is for cheats is nonsense.  i dont even use UO assist anymore.  i do fine. 

for me its the paperdolls, and the mounts mainly.    and iconic pets like dragons that just dont look like UO to me.

and the books of course.  i cant imagine having UO without the vast collections of literature.  it just wouldnt be UO for me.

Lets be real, the graphics of EC were outdated even when it was released in 2009. 

If it was just the UI with none of the spell effects, runescape looking paperdolls, or other blasphemous "art", id play EC.

The Dragon in EC looks better than the the dragon in CC.

The Grass and Road textures look better in EC than in CC.

What i am trying to say is that some things look better in CC and most other things look better in EC.
And when it comes to "taste about graphics" it will be an endless discussion anyway 😂

The bane dragon looks better in EC.

*opens the door for Phoenix guy*

Garth_Grey said:

As I said, I started with CC like everyone else, I now play EC because I know it's the better client. I don't experience this ghosting everyones complaining about. Is the ec buggy ? Yep, and you shouldnt have taken offense to my comment if you know you're not guilty. I said a majority of users, and it's my opinion but I still stand by it.

Even thought i prefer EC by far, ghosting happens quite often in EC and it is extremly annoying.

Will someone please explain what the point of this thread is?   

I don't care about the art, I just prefer the EC overall. 

Himmelweiss said:

Garth_Grey said:

As I said, I started with CC like everyone else, I now play EC because I know it's the better client. I don't experience this ghosting everyones complaining about. Is the ec buggy ? Yep, and you shouldnt have taken offense to my comment if you know you're not guilty. I said a majority of users, and it's my opinion but I still stand by it.

Even thought i prefer EC by far, ghosting happens quite often in EC and it is extremly annoying.

The only way I have found to eliminate the ghosts when they are there, is to completely shutdown the client and restart it.  Not a real solution at spawns...

jaytin said:

I don't care about the art, I just prefer the EC overall. 

i should have added a third option to the poll

Art and aesthetics are subjective, but it's not like things can't make sense. The EC is aesthetically obviously inferior when it comes to cohesiveness. And that's because they had to basically technically and artistically paint over the old one. It's really a mixed bag with a lot of aesthetic clashing. Some monster designs are really off, and overall, 3D tends to date quicker than 2D. Compare the DKC series from the SNES with DK64. The latter looks far more dated. 

The classic client, while archaic and riddled with faults, still looks and feels better put together. Things like the frames and animations can quite easily be fixed and many, many other aspects as well, as "unofficial efforts" have demonstrated. I would personally opt to go with the classic client in terms of focus on updating clients, because it has a distinct appeal in today's marked saturated with generic 3D art. The classic client has a distinct Ultima feel that is dear to very many people and I think with some love can still appeal to people today. One sucky thing about 2D is the labor for the art... but with today's tech you can render in 3D and then generate sprites with that.. so long you have the art direction and know-how to nail the aesthetic feel.. otherwise you'll have really out-of-place looking art, like now is the case with some of the 3D art that was converted to sprites for the 2D client.

Anyhow, the 3D client has gotten way more love and the 2D one was effectively almost abandoned until recently. On top of that, the 3D client has Pinco... while no such modding options exist for the 2D client. So, I am very happy about the 2D client getting love and I hope it will continue. I only ever logged in to EC for a few features, that if present in the 2D client, would help me bid the EC client farewell. 

CC always wins these polls. That would indicate that it would make more business sense to devote more time into it since it is the more popular client.

Less than 40 have expressed an opinion.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/728/what-client-do-you-play-cc-or-ec/p1

Not as far apart as you would think...

Rorschach said:

Will someone please explain what the point of this thread is?   

Many replies have no point but It went into a fun direction.

The Dragon in EC looks like some poorly made robot dragon toy from the 60s.

The EC swamp dragon is horrible and is missing 2 legs.  

We disagree on many Mobs artwork.

I hear the CC causes the Diabeetus

Invokana Baby!

Just for the record this is what a real dragon looks like
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Komodo_dragon_with_tongue.jpg

  

Rorschach said:

Less than 40 have expressed an opinion.

which is somewhat under 3% of the registered posters on this forum.  I think this thread is serving no real purpose.