Mature Eggs in Hidden Chests : Does Luck really work or not ?

No

There is a thread over in stratics where people posted that they got their mature egg with the added luck. 

How about you add YOUR findings @popps with actual data? How many hidden chests have you done? Sounds like not many based on your other threads talking about lockpicking in animal form. 

I got one with a character that has zero luck, and not using a statue. And I got one with a character that has 2340 luck using a statue.

Popps doesn't understand it affects the chances not guarantees it. Real life luck affects it as well 

Grimbeard said:

Popps doesn't understand it affects the chances not guarantees it. Real life luck affects it as well 

I had that as the next sentence, but then realized i didn't want to overfeed the Troll.

I have found myself in a similar situation. I've spent almost all my turn-in points for massive maps up to this point (I'd guess upwards of 125+ maps) and haven't had any luck (from nest or matriarch). The first 30-40 maps I didn't use any luck items, but since they said that item luck does play a part I have been using a luck suit with statue bumps (5k+) with similar results. 

I'm personally hoping they allow the deco eggs to be turned in towards a mature egg or at least some sort of "egg luck potion" that gives like a 50/50 chance at an egg. 

Similar to you Mordeed, I have decided to scale back on doing the nests and the matriarch and spend my play time getting drops to claim some of the other items for the event.

My guess is the deco egg vendor will sell nest maps , not mature eggs 

Mordeed said:

My guess is the deco egg vendor will sell nest maps , not mature eggs 

That's not a bad thought... it would be nice if we knew this so people could decide if that's worth keeping the eggs. Personally, I have no desire to trade eggs for more maps so I'd start trashing them instead of taking up 500+ lockdowns. 

Ok I will explain 
Each chest has the chance at 
Lock picks 
Maps
Eggs
Drops
I listed in the order I get them 
So you detect a chest the first roll happens
Each chest has let's call them levels 
For drops it's 
1
2
3
So that's another "roll"
Then we roll again effigy or egg. Then roll for color 
Is this simple enough @popps
So your luck is being applied multiple times 
So of you get lock pick chest you had bad roll but if it has ingredients you got good second roll

Grimbeard said:

Popps doesn't understand it affects the chances not guarantees it. Real life luck affects it as well 

This "Luck effect" seems to be rather miniscule to me if the players I asked who got Mature eggs said that they got theirs out of the Statue+Clock Luck hour...

popps said:

Grimbeard said:

Popps doesn't understand it affects the chances not guarantees it. Real life luck affects it as well 

This "Luck effect" seems to be rather miniscule to me if the players I asked who got Mature eggs said that they got theirs out of the Statue+Clock Luck hour...

But even if miniscule, one would imagine that, while certainly one could get Mature eggs out of the Statue+Clock hour, most Mature eggs would be gotten by players when being within the Statue+Clock hour Luck bonus, not out of it...

This, at least, if the Luck bonus did have an effect which I am starting to be highly sceptical about...

If you are skeptical don't use?

keven2002 said:

There is a thread over in stratics where people posted that they got their mature egg with the added luck. 

How about you add YOUR findings @ popps with actual data? How many hidden chests have you done? Sounds like not many based on your other threads talking about lockpicking in animal form. 

Well, I did not count the hidden chests that I did but, I can tell you that I have filled a Davey' Locker with Nest Maps and, mind you, I left behind the Fledging ones and only collected Lesser and Greater up to like 300ish when I then started picking up only the Greater ones... and the Locker now has about 450 Nest Maps... considering that only 1 in 3 or 4 chests has a Map (Fledging, Lesser or Greater), and that I only collected partly the Lesser ones and only the Greater ones (and that the Fledging and Lesser ones are more likely to spawn as compared to the Greater ones...), could it be a good estimate that so far I opened up some 4,000-5,000 hidden chests ?

Mordeed said:

Ive given up for the time being, I found all I was doing was hunting for a egg and not enjoying the game. All my event points have been spent on massive maps and I really want some of the other stuff.  hours and hours, lots and no luck yet. Ive gone back to training pets and doing other stuff. I personally dont like this sort of reward that only the blessed few get something and others invest alot of time for nothing. I think we should be able to grind towards it, and if we get lucky get it earlier. 

Saying that, Ive enjoyed prowling around dungeons trying to avoid the hoards of dragons and I have found two effigies so far. 

popps said:

This "Luck effect" seems to be rather miniscule to me if the players I asked who got Mature eggs said that they got theirs out of the Statue+Clock Luck hour...

Then why are you wasting time wearing a luck suit? 
Your extensive testing has proven that it is not required.

Pawain said:

popps said:

This "Luck effect" seems to be rather miniscule to me if the players I asked who got Mature eggs said that they got theirs out of the Statue+Clock Luck hour...

Then why are you wasting time wearing a luck suit? 
Your extensive testing has proven that it is not required.

Agreed, I have gotten it with 0 luck and theres still months left in this event. I've never bothered with luck as it does nothing that I have ever been able to prove.

vortex said:

I have around 2800 luck. But I play cause I enjoy it and if I get a egg that's nice but not the end of the world of I don't. 

 Popps do you get any enjoyment from this game cause it doesn't look like it everything is a grind and you have to get everything available in the game then complain about storage. 

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Pawain said:

popps said:

This "Luck effect" seems to be rather miniscule to me if the players I asked who got Mature eggs said that they got theirs out of the Statue+Clock Luck hour...

Then why are you wasting time wearing a luck suit? 
Your extensive testing has proven that it is not required.

Agreed, I have gotten it with 0 luck and theres still months left in this event. I've never bothered with luck as it does nothing that I have ever been able to prove.

The way I see it, is that Luck should be more powerful in giving a boost at a drop as it apparently is, if lots of players who got their Mature eggs drops, report them as happening out of their Statue + Clock Luck boost...

You fail to see that luck is working exactly as intended providing a RANDOM impact on rolls 

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Pawain said:

popps said:

This "Luck effect" seems to be rather miniscule to me if the players I asked who got Mature eggs said that they got theirs out of the Statue+Clock Luck hour...

Then why are you wasting time wearing a luck suit? 
Your extensive testing has proven that it is not required.

Agreed, I have gotten it with 0 luck and theres still months left in this event. I've never bothered with luck as it does nothing that I have ever been able to prove.

The way I see it, is that Luck should be more powerful in giving a boost at a drop as it apparently is, if lots of players who got their Mature eggs drops, report them as happening out of their Statue + Clock Luck boost...

Sure, if a player plays, say, 5 hours, of which 1 is with the Statue + Clock boost Luck bonus and 4 are without, in those 4 " other " hours they find 4 times more chests as compared to those during the 1 hour Statue + Clock boost... again, we see a recurrant pattern here... power play... the more chests the more chances... and thus people use BOT trains, scripts to be able to run characters doing activities in the game while they are perhaps not at the keyboard (or just monitor it but do else...).

I happen to think this as not good for the game... we can't complain about BOT trains and players scripting 24/7 to get hard to get stuff in the game and, yet, want to keep the current way to get things which, somehow, incentivates this way of playing.

Players should be able to get stuff in the game without having to resort to BOT trains and scripting, I think... that is why I said that there should be a "counter" (sort of like it happens in Doom) that keeps track of how many Hidden Chests a player finds, how many Nest Maps they dig up, and eventually, when it reaches a set number, grant a Mature egg drop and the counter resets to zero for another run.

That's at least how I see it.

Popps, I admire the passion, but you’ve managed to turn “Luck is miniscule” into a 1,000‑word manifesto on why the game needs a Doom‑style counter. That’s like saying “rain doesn’t help crops much” and then proposing we install irrigation systems in every backyard.

The reality is simple: if players are getting eggs both with and without Luck, then Luck isn’t the golden ticket, it’s just window dressing. The actual factor is time invested and chests opened, not whether you’re standing next to a clock in a sparkly suit.

As for bot trains, they’ll always exist because someone will always try to brute‑force the RNG. Designing the entire drop system around stopping them is like banning cars because some people speed. The devs already balance events around human play, not 24/7 scripts.

So while your “counter” idea is cute, it’s basically asking for guaranteed drops—which defeats the whole point of rare loot. If everything is just a punch‑card reward, then Luck, RNG, and the thrill of the chase all vanish. And honestly, if you’re going to argue that Luck should matter more, you might want to stop proving—over and over—that it doesn’t.

That, in the final analysis and when considered through the multifaceted prism of my own subjective interpretive framework, represents, at least insofar as my personal evaluative perspective and experiential lens are concerned, the manner in which the situation presents itself to me, or, to phrase it in yet another way for the sake of rhetorical redundancy, the particular vantage point through which I happen to perceive and conceptualize the matter at hand, which is to say, the conclusion toward which my reasoning inclines me within the confines of my own cognitive apparatus, even though, restated once more in alternate wording for emphasis, this articulation constitutes not an absolute or universal decree but rather the specific manner in which the circumstances appear when filtered through my individual understanding, thereby amounting, in essence, to nothing more and nothing less than how I see it.

Victim_Of_Siege said:

That, in the final analysis and when considered through the multifaceted prism of my own subjective interpretive framework, represents, at least insofar as my personal evaluative perspective and experiential lens are concerned, the manner in which the situation presents itself to me, or, to phrase it in yet another way for the sake of rhetorical redundancy, the particular vantage point through which I happen to perceive and conceptualize the matter at hand, which is to say, the conclusion toward which my reasoning inclines me within the confines of my own cognitive apparatus, even though, restated once more in alternate wording for emphasis, this articulation constitutes not an absolute or universal decree but rather the specific manner in which the circumstances appear when filtered through my individual understanding, thereby amounting, in essence, to nothing more and nothing less than how I see it.

keven2002 said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

That, in the final analysis and when considered through the multifaceted prism of my own subjective interpretive framework, represents, at least insofar as my personal evaluative perspective and experiential lens are concerned, the manner in which the situation presents itself to me, or, to phrase it in yet another way for the sake of rhetorical redundancy, the particular vantage point through which I happen to perceive and conceptualize the matter at hand, which is to say, the conclusion toward which my reasoning inclines me within the confines of my own cognitive apparatus, even though, restated once more in alternate wording for emphasis, this articulation constitutes not an absolute or universal decree but rather the specific manner in which the circumstances appear when filtered through my individual understanding, thereby amounting, in essence, to nothing more and nothing less than how I see it.

I got you Dawg 

Victim_Of_Siege said:

keven2002 said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

That, in the final analysis and when considered through the multifaceted prism of my own subjective interpretive framework, represents, at least insofar as my personal evaluative perspective and experiential lens are concerned, the manner in which the situation presents itself to me, or, to phrase it in yet another way for the sake of rhetorical redundancy, the particular vantage point through which I happen to perceive and conceptualize the matter at hand, which is to say, the conclusion toward which my reasoning inclines me within the confines of my own cognitive apparatus, even though, restated once more in alternate wording for emphasis, this articulation constitutes not an absolute or universal decree but rather the specific manner in which the circumstances appear when filtered through my individual understanding, thereby amounting, in essence, to nothing more and nothing less than how I see it.

I got you Dawg 

Thesaurus by Merriam-Webster

❤️

Again popps just refuses to accept the answers he's been given....by it's very definition luck is an unknown force that potentially affects the outcome in either a position or negative manner. whilst popps wishes it to be a point system with a positive outcome guaranteed...can we lock thread now or should we start trashing poor innocent popps? 

Grimbeard said:

popps wishes it to be

Sums up 99% of the threads on this forum. Gotta give it to him though, he is keeping the boards active. 

Victim_Of_Siege said:

As for bot trains, they’ll always exist because someone will always try to brute‑force the RNG. Designing the entire drop system around stopping them is like banning cars because some people speed. 

 Popps, what you’ve essentially outlined is the classic “if only we guaranteed drops, bots would pack up and go home” argument which, to put it politely, is about as convincing as saying burglars would stop breaking into houses if everyone just left their doors unlocked.

Let me restate this in the deliberately over‑complicated phrasing you seem to prefer: the existence of bot trains and scripting is not a by‑product of RNG alone, but of the simple economic reality that wherever there is demand for rare items, someone will attempt to supply them through automation. If drops were guaranteed by a Doom‑style counter, the bots would not vanish; they would simply optimize the counter faster than any casual player could, thereby cornering the market on “guaranteed” rewards instead of “random” ones. In other words, the incentive structure remains intact, merely translated from probability to inevitability.

To phrase it differently, and redundantly for emphasis: your proposal does not eliminate the disparity between scripted play and normal play, it merely shifts the axis of exploitation. Bots thrive not because RNG exists, but because scarcity exists and scarcity, whether random or metered, is the engine of value. Remove randomness, and you don’t remove botting you just change the math they use to profit.

So the real choice is not between a design that “favours bots” and one that “favours casuals,” but between a system that preserves rarity through chance and one that trivializes it through inevitability. And if the goal is to make every item obtainable by simply clocking hours until a counter resets, then we may as well replace the entire loot system with a punch‑card: play X hours, get Y prize, repeat ad infinitum. Which, to summarize in the most professional yet undeniably smartalecky phrasing available, is precisely why your solution solves nothing except the problem of boredom by ensuring we all get bored faster. 

That, insofar as my own interpretive faculties and subjective vantage point are capable of rendering judgment upon the matter presently under discussion, constitutes at least to the extent that my personal evaluative framework, experiential lens, and cognitive apparatus permit the particular manner in which the situation appears to me, or, to phrase the same sentiment in alternate wording for the sake of rhetorical redundancy, the specific configuration of perception through which I happen to conceptualize and understand the issue at hand, which is to say, the conclusion toward which my reasoning inclines me when filtered through the prism of my individual perspective, even though, restated once more in slightly varied formulation for emphasis, this articulation should not be mistaken for an absolute decree or universal pronouncement but rather for the idiosyncratic, localized, and inherently limited account of how the circumstances manifest themselves when processed by my own thought patterns, thereby amounting, in essence, to nothing more and nothing less than the way in which I, personally, happen to see it.

If you read between the lines he's mentioned more than once that he lacks gold to buy items and "lacks" or refuses to put the grind time in to get said items. 

popps said:

Some players can almost reach 6,000 Luck for..

Luck is artificially hard cap around ~3500 luck. (you pin point that number with google)

Like I said before, u totally ignore the odds.. let's say you have two chances on 10 000.
2/10k with 0 luck.
Let's say the artificial hardcap brings you to 3 chances.. wich is HUGE.. on paper.. but your odds are still 3 chances on 10 000 with 150% chances the 0 luck gets.

If you are lucky on something rare with totally random RNG (wich does not exist IRL, cuz nature is beautiful, only in *snip* codes) You won't care about the luck.


In my book, you would be a dumbass to not stack the maximum chances on your side.

To give you an example you may understand better.. you are playing Lotto and you can get an extra free ticket via luck. Does it increase your chances of winning? I would argue it does not.. u still going to lose, but your odds are clearly better.. it's all about luck and star alignment -.-

I wouldn't be surprised to learn the mature eggs drop code had a line to regulate it over time.. not totally at random.. easier to control the supply for the dev.. someone stole your fire. (like the old gauntlet artifact were or like the old skill gain system)
If the time has something to do, like I suspect.. do not nest on prime time.. you going to increase your odds doing it in the middle of the night.

A dumb example to make sur eu understand.. old gauntlet artifact would drop once every ~4 hours.. no matter the shard u were playing on.. if u arrive on zone.. you know an artifact drop recently.. u losing your time if u hunt for arti. You could train 0.1-0.2 every 24 hours by doing 2-3 craft a day. instead of gaining 0.8 a day for 8 hours crafting.

It's a safe guard UO dev loves to use when it's not something like building a pool of point. To streamline and control the drops on rarer stuff.. like stealable artifact timer.. just not as precise.


TL;DR I wouldn'T be surprise it's totally random.. until the moment it's not (like none drop in the last x hours.. one is due soon enough) So u won't have 3 eggs dropping in a short period for none dropping in days. Try to nest during night time and avoid prime time and let me know
PS: always increase your odds with luck if possible.

KroDuK said:

popps said:

Some players can almost reach 6,000 Luck for..

Luck is artificially hard cap around ~3500 luck. (you pin point that number with google)

Victim_Of_Siege said:

 Popps, what you’ve essentially outlined is the classic “if only we guaranteed drops, bots would pack up and go home” argument which, to put it politely, is about as convincing as saying burglars would stop breaking into houses if everyone just left their doors unlocked.

KroDuK said:

popps said:

Some players can almost reach 6,000 Luck for..

Luck is artificially hard cap around ~3500 luck. (you pin point that number with google)

Like I said before, u totally ignore the odds.. let's say you have two chances on 10 000.
2/10k with 0 luck.
Let's say the artificial hardcap brings you to 3 chances.. wich is HUGE.. on paper.. but your odds are still 3 chances on 10 000 with 150% chances the 0 luck gets.

If you are lucky on something rare with totally random RNG (wich does not exist IRL, cuz nature is beautiful, only in *snip* codes) You won't care about the luck.


In my book, you would be a dumbass to not stack the maximum chances on your side.

To give you an example you may understand better.. you are playing Lotto and you can get an extra free ticket via luck. Does it increase your chances of winning? I would argue it does not.. u still going to lose, but your odds are clearly better.. it's all about luck and star alignment -.-

I wouldn't be surprised to learn the mature eggs drop code had a line to regulate it over time.. not totally at random.. easier to control the supply for the dev.. someone stole your fire. (like the old gauntlet artifact were or like the old skill gain system)
If the time has something to do, like I suspect.. do not nest on prime time.. you going to increase your odds doing it in the middle of the night.

A dumb example to make sur eu understand.. old gauntlet artifact would drop once every ~4 hours.. no matter the shard u were playing on.. if u arrive on zone.. you know an artifact drop recently.. u losing your time if u hunt for arti. You could train 0.1-0.2 every 24 hours by doing 2-3 craft a day. instead of gaining 0.8 a day for 8 hours crafting.

It's a safe guard UO dev loves to use when it's not something like building a pool of point. To streamline and control the drops on rarer stuff.. like stealable artifact timer.. just not as precise.


TL;DR I wouldn'T be surprise it's totally random.. until the moment it's not (like none drop in the last x hours.. one is due soon enough) So u won't have 3 eggs dropping in a short period for none dropping in days. Try to nest during night time and avoid prime time and let me know
PS: always increase your odds with luck if possible.

Luck is artificially hard cap around ~3500 luck. (you pin point that number with google)

The functional max of Luck is around 4,000, so you're about halfway there.

Luck is working as intended, it will impact both the intensity of randomly generated magical items created as minor artifacts from Treasures of ... and it will influence whether you get one of those minor artifacts. 

TL;DR I wouldn'T be surprise it's totally random.. until the moment it's not (like none drop in the last x hours.. one is due soon enough) So u won't have 3 eggs dropping in a short period for none dropping in days. Try to nest

ForeverFun said:

for certain "luck systems".

Make sense, could be possible.. till they share data or someone datamine..

I would stick with this artificial luck hardcap.

popps said:

Luck is artificially hard cap around ~3500 luck. (you pin point that number with google)

In July 2021 Kyronix said : 

The functional max of Luck is around 4,000, so you're about halfway there.

Luck is working as intended, it will impact both the intensity of randomly generated magical items created as minor artifacts from Treasures of ... and it will influence whether you get one of those minor artifacts. 

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/60794/#Comment_60794

The thing is, that since then, with the Events that have run over these years, more items with Luck have been released helping to increase the Luck that players can wear with their suits so, I do not know whether this functional Luck has been increased from that around 4,000 ,

 nvm, I'll do it for you:


https://www.uoguide.com/Luck


The effigie stuff is not what I'm talking about.. not even close.

popps said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

 Popps, what you’ve essentially outlined is the classic “if only we guaranteed drops, bots would pack up and go home” argument which, to put it politely, is about as convincing as saying burglars would stop breaking into houses if everyone just left their doors unlocked.

The way I think it, the argument should be constructed differently...

If a machine was available to create matter (any item) out of thin air (atoms), then burglars would not need to break into houses because they cuold just make whatever they want/need on their own and not take it from others...

Now, in the real world this of course is not possible but in a digital, fictional one ?

To my opinion, if there is some players who BOT and script 24/7 it is because there is a market for whatever they get with their BOT trains and scripting... if it is RNG hard to get items, it is because they can sell them for ridicolously high in game prices, if it is gold, it is because they can sell it for real money.

Now, what would then be the best way to see these BOT trains and 24/7 scripters go if not take that market away from them so that they would not have buyers for their items or gold, or hardly any ?

And what would be the best way to do that if not make it so that the regular, casual players who are the buyers for those items and gold can get their items and gold on their own, just playing the game, without having to buy it from those players who BOT train and script 24/7 ?

At least, that is how I see it.

Popps, I must commend the imaginative flourish of invoking atom‑generating machines as an analogy, but unfortunately the comparison collapses under the weight of its own metaphor. In the real world, burglars do not cease to exist simply because scarcity is removed; they merely redirect their efforts toward whatever remains scarce, valuable, or exploitable. And in the digital world, bots and scripts operate under precisely the same principle: they do not vanish when the mechanics change, they adapt to whatever system is in place, whether that system is probabilistic RNG or deterministic counters.

To restate this in alternate wording for emphasis because repetition seems to be the lingua franca here. Scarcity, not randomness, is the engine of value. Bots exist because there is demand, and demand exists because not everything is instantly and universally obtainable. If you replace RNG with a Doom‑style punch‑card counter, the bots will not pack up and retire; they will simply optimize the counter faster than any casual player could, thereby cornering the market on “guaranteed” drops instead of “random” ones. In other words, the incentive structure remains intact, merely translated from probability to inevitability.

Put differently, and redundantly for clarity: your proposal does not eliminate the disparity between scripted play and normal play, it merely shifts the axis of exploitation. Bots thrive not because RNG exists, but because scarcity exists and scarcity, whether random or metered, is what creates both value and markets. Remove randomness, and you don’t remove botting; you just change the math they use to profit.

So, in summary though I have deliberately reiterated this in multiple guises to match your style the notion that guaranteed drops would somehow dissolve bot trains is less a solution and more a mirage. It is, in essence, a paradox dressed up as reform: advocating for the amplification of a mechanic whose insignificance you have already demonstrated, while simultaneously proposing a mechanism that would render that mechanic irrelevant. 

And that, expressed in the most professional yet unmistakably tongue in cheek and deliberately over elaborated phrasing available, represents at least insofar as my own interpretive faculties and subjective vantage point are concerned the particular manner in which the situation appears to me, or to phrase it differently for rhetorical redundancy, the conclusion toward which my reasoning inclines me when filtered through the prism of my personal evaluative framework. Restated once more in slightly varied formulation for emphasis, this should not be mistaken for an absolute decree but rather for the idiosyncratic, localized account of how the circumstances manifest themselves when processed by my own thought patterns, thereby amounting, in essence, to nothing more and nothing less than the way in which I personally happen to see it.

Bots exist because there is demand, and demand exists because not everything is instantly and universally obtainable. If you replace RNG with a Doom‑style punch‑card counter, the bots will not pack up and retire; they will simply optimize the counter faster than any casual player could, thereby cornering the market on “guaranteed” drops instead of “random” ones. In other words, the incentive structure remains intact, merely translated from probability to inevitability.

Bots exist because there is demand.

popps said:

The demand would indeed drop and so the reasons for BOTers and Scripters to BOT train and script.

That is at least how I see it.

You are assuming bots only do it to sale for IG gold or RMTers.. These bots are actual players subbing a lot of account as a slave force.
99% of non affiliate RMT'ers has been ban ~14 yrs ago

How many mature eggs is too many?
For some it's gonna be 10; others 1k.


This wouldn't be an issue on a good risk vs reward sandbox game.
Your issue is actually a solution for Boardsword studio.

KroDuK said:

popps said:

The demand would indeed drop and so the reasons for BOTers and Scripters to BOT train and script.

That is at least how I see it.

You are assuming bots only do it to sale for IG gold or RMTers.. These bots are actual players subbing a lot of account as a slave force.
99% of non affiliate RMT'ers has been ban ~14 yrs ago

How many mature eggs is too many?
For some it's gonna be 10; others 1k.


This wouldn't be an issue on a good risk vs reward sandbox game.
Your issue is actually a solution for Boardsword studio.

ForeverFun said:

KroDuK said:

popps said:

Some players can almost reach 6,000 Luck for..

Luck is artificially hard cap around ~3500 luck. (you pin point that number with google)

Don't believe everything you read in a search engine result.

There was an easter bunny event some years back, where somebody at broadsword left some "logging output" on test center, which showed the results of the luck roll for the "bunny event" (the luck was inspected when the "green thorn" was placed).  Around 4,000 luck seemed to guarantee a drop, both in the "logging output", and the code that was published world-wide.

I doubt Google has a fully current copy of the UO server code, so it can't really analyze what the "is" is.

Kyronix or somebody else may one-day describe all the "luck systems", calculations, formulae, etc, but I wouldn't hold breath for that.

The fact a new luck stacking item (pub121 event clock), which adds 1000 lucks, could be an indicator the "goal posts" have moved for certain "luck systems".

I asked this on a 5 on Friday post which received a somewhat vague response, but a response nonetheless. Kyronix said that there is no hard cap on luck and that it's implemented on a "per system basis". Here is the link to the thread (November 7th was the day it was answered).

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/16437/five-on-friday-answers#latest  ;


Merlin asked a follow up question to help us understand which systems use which and to help de-mystify all things luck which I'm hoping they will oblige and help us out.

Popps needs to take this to discord in the feedback section 

popps said:

Bots exist because there is demand, and demand exists because not everything is instantly and universally obtainable. If you replace RNG with a Doom‑style punch‑card counter, the bots will not pack up and retire; they will simply optimize the counter faster than any casual player could, thereby cornering the market on “guaranteed” drops instead of “random” ones. In other words, the incentive structure remains intact, merely translated from probability to inevitability.

Bots exist because there is demand.

Yes.

If I understand your argument, you say that, even with a counter style mechanics, BOTters and Scripters would "adjust" to the new mechanics and still farm these items and that non BOTters and non Scripters players would still but these items from these other players rather then getting them their own.

This is where I think our thinking differs.

You think, If I understood you correctly, that there would still be a market and that non BOTters and non Scripters would still buy these items, even if now, with a changed "counter-style" mechanics they could get them on their own in the game and thus not need to buy them from other players, while I, instead, think that if the items were less absurd to get, non BOTters and non Scripters would get these items just playing the game (the counter-style would ensure them to get them, at some point), albeit less frequently then Botters but indeed allow them to get them.

That is, I questrion, why would non BOTters and non Scripters players want/need to buy these items from the BOTters if they could get these items on their own ?

After all, they play the game for fun and just playing the game, they would eventually meet the counter-style X requirement and get that drop. Why then buy the items from BOTters and Scripters and not play the game instead to get them ?

But if so, wouldn't that "demand" then cease to exist or, at the very least, go deep down so as to take away most reasons for BOTters and scripters to farm Events to then enormously profit from that from their sale at extremely high prices for those items ?

As it is now, I have read of non power gamers getting "burned out" because uncovering thousands upon thousands (over tens, hundreds of their real life hours spent in the process) of hidden chests and Nest Maps and getting zero Mature eggs... becoming entirely tired and fed of it (and possibly of the game itself)... with a counter style system, yes, BOTters and Scripters would still get more of these items and faster as you say YET, and this is the core of my argument, non BOTters and non Scripters would then be able, contrary to what it is now, to get their wanted drop on their own (now it seems to be rather impossible for many, unless they brute-force the RNG) thus no longer needing to get to the BOTters and Scripters and pay ridicolous high prices for them.

The demand would indeed drop and so the reasons for BOTers and Scripters to BOT train and script.

That is at least how I see it.

Popps, while I admire the persistence with which you continue to re‑articulate your position, what you have essentially constructed here is less an argument and more a thought experiment in speculative economics, complete with atom‑generating machines and utopian assumptions about human behavior. To phrase it differently, you are imagining a digital Eden in which scarcity evaporates simply because a counter exists, and in which players, suddenly liberated from the cruel hand of RNG, will universally choose to grind patiently rather than seek shortcuts. This, however, runs directly counter to the observable reality of every online economy ever devised, where demand is driven not only by rarity but by impatience, convenience, and the perennial human desire to have something now rather than eventually.

Restated in alternate wording for emphasis: players do not buy from botters solely because they cannot get items on their own, they buy because they do not wish to wait. The market exists not because RNG is insurmountable, but because time is finite and attention is scarce. If you install a counter, the bots will not vanish into the ether; they will simply optimize the counter more efficiently, reach thresholds faster, and flood the market with guaranteed drops. And casual players, faced with the choice between grinding for hours or paying for instant gratification, will continue to create demand. Thus, the demand does not disappear it merely shifts from “maybe I’ll never get it” to “I don’t want to spend the time to get it.”

Put differently, and redundantly for rhetorical flourish: scarcity is not eliminated by counters, it is merely re‑packaged. The rare item remains rare because it requires effort, and effort is precisely what bots are designed to bypass. Your proposal, therefore, does not dissolve the market; it simply changes the math by which the market operates. Bots thrive not because RNG exists, but because impatience exists, and impatience is a resource more abundant than any hidden chest or nest map.

So, in summary, though I have deliberately reiterated this in multiple guises to match your style, the notion that guaranteed drops would somehow dissolve bot trains is less a solution and more a mirage. It is, in essence, a paradox dressed up as reform: advocating for the amplification of a mechanic whose insignificance you have already demonstrated, while simultaneously proposing a mechanism that would render that mechanic irrelevant. And that, articulated in the most professional yet unmistakably tongue‑in‑cheek and deliberately over‑elaborated phrasing available, is precisely, definitively, and redundantly how I see it.

What vic is say is that I have more time than money and the uo store should sell everything the RMT people do cheaper so I can buy my stuff and fish in the leetest gear

popps said:

And where would be the problem, if any ?

If some players want to get and use for themselves 10 Mature eggs or 1k Mature eggs I am good with it, they play the game like everyone else and...

I've stopped here.. we were clearly discussing something else.. I'm sure u ain't building your own story to fit your narrative like some.. but missing your own point, wich I was responding, like usually.


Edit: i'll give it to you.. 99% of those eggs are just gonna be sitting in one of their 30 alts house for yearsssss to come.. cuz they have no need of playing the sandbox market game with their slaves force.. they got everything they need in huge quantity without even playing the game.

You were assuming they would RMT them.. if they start competing with those guys, with their slaves force.. they going to get ban real fast by Mesanna.. they need to pay their taxes if they does.

keven2002 said:

I asked this on a 5 on Friday post which received a somewhat vague response, but a response nonetheless. Kyronix said that there is no hard cap on luck and that it's implemented on a "per system basis".

You should have call him out for the *snip* response.
Like captain obvious level.

There was always a hardcap on luck that could be obtain for the base game.. we even have the formula.. with new content that cap would get push. ex: if a ratman is 600 luck hardcap a dragon could be 1800 luck.. here we can't solve the formula with unknown data from those new temporary system numbers.

What he meant is our temporary event cap is soo huge it cannot be attain.



Personally I'll stick to base game data and rock solid value.. till they share their data from their heretic event.
Till then, cash shop fortune potion is the answer you should accept.. wich explain Popps postion and reaction towards bots, cuz of the affiliate corporate culture.. for almost everything other than fortune potion.

@popps I had to finish your message.. you were in fact building your own narrative, by missing the point/story..

You already have the answer u just didn't see it.


You are asking to keep a flag on every single character (ATL server gonna lag SOOOO MUCH MORE)

What I was telling you.. for some of those rarer items.. UO dev always loved to keep a safe guard.
Like the old Gauntlet.. they were injecting one artifact every ~4 hours on every shards.

Here what i'm saying is.. they could clearly keep track of mature eggs AND ONLY MATURE EGGS.. on every server.. if none drop after x hours.. one is due soon enough.. wich was why I was telling you to farm them at night time when people sleep for better odds.

The server charges is nothing to keep a single flag on mature eggs.. vs keeping/tracking extra flags on every single characters (I won't say players knowing most of those i've seen were automated) to built a pool of point or to work with the law of diminishing return/ or the opposite.. as u can already see cuz of the lag during those heretic events.. they remove some flags like corpse to help them keeping flag up for artifact pool points... u asking to add more and make those mature eggs not as rare and only focusing on the RNG side of things (tunnel vision)

If you were serious about RNG stuff u'd be asking to add them in the reward list for like 2000-5000 points. But you don't want that.. you just want them to not be as rare.. RNG has nothing to do with your problem here.. if it does, just ask for a fix number from the reward claiming list.. You just won't like that number.

KroDuK said:

@ popps I had to finish your message.. you were in fact building your own narrative, by missing the point/story..

You already have the answer u just didn't see it.


You are asking to keep a flag on every single character (ATL server gonna lag SOOOO MUCH MORE)

What I was telling you.. for some of those rarer items.. UO dev always loved to keep a safe guard.
Like the old Gauntlet.. they were injecting one artifact every ~4 hours on every shards.

Here what i'm saying is.. they could clearly keep track of mature eggs AND ONLY MATURE EGGS.. on every server.. if none drop after x hours.. one is due soon enough.. wich was why I was telling you to farm them at night time when people sleep for better odds.

The server charges is nothing to keep a single flag on mature eggs.. vs keeping/tracking extra flags on every single characters (I won't say players knowing most of those i've seen were automated) to built a pool of point or to work with the law of diminishing return/ or the opposite.. as u can already see cuz of the lag during those heretic events.. they remove some flags like corpse to help them keeping flag up for artifact pool points... u asking to add more and make those mature eggs not as rare and only focusing on the RNG side of things (tunnel vision)

If you were serious about RNG stuff u'd be asking to add them in the reward list for like 2000-5000 points. But you don't want that.. you just want them to not be as rare.. RNG has nothing to do with your problem here.. if it does, just ask for a fix number from the reward claiming list.. You just won't like that number.

I haven't gotten an egg from a hidden chest. I've found an awful lot of chests, with and without added luck, but I have got a few effigies, ingredients to make those sleeves, gems to imbue those slayer weapons I make so many of, maps to dig, etc plus stealthing around opening the chests is fun!
I haven't used all my points getting high end maps, I've paced it, alternating between items for my chars and maps.  I've dug greater and grand maps with my UO BBF, we've had fun doing that. I've done massive maps with my guild, and because I bought the maps, marked runes to the right area, gated everyone in and dug them, when we did manage to get an egg, it was mine to claim. The next one, if there is a next one, will be someone else's. Eggs aren't the only things in the maps that are worth having.

It's no good getting hung up on what bots are doing, why do they do it? Because they can, it wouldn't matter one iota if there were 'guaranteed drops', there will always be people who would rather buy everything and never actually play the content. The 'I can't be bothered to play, I'll just buy what I want' people. There will always be people who would rather find a way to cheat than play honestly. I think they think it makes them clever, I disagree.

I just play to have fun and try not to let what someone else is doing spoil my enjoyment.

Petra_Fyde said:

I haven't gotten an egg from a hidden chest. I've found an awful lot of chests, with and without added luck, but I have got a few effigies, ingredients to make those sleeves, gems to imbue those slayer weapons I make so many of, maps to dig, etc plus stealthing around opening the chests is fun!
I haven't used all my points getting high end maps, I've paced it, alternating between items for my chars and maps.  I've dug greater and grand maps with my UO BBF, we've had fun doing that. I've done massive maps with my guild, and because I bought the maps, marked runes to the right area, gated everyone in and dug them, when we did manage to get an egg, it was mine to claim. The next one, if there is a next one, will be someone else's. Eggs aren't the only things in the maps that are worth having.

It's no good getting hung up on what bots are doing, why do they do it? Because they can, it wouldn't matter one iota if there were 'guaranteed drops', there will always be people who would rather buy everything and never actually play the content. The 'I can't be bothered to play, I'll just buy what I want' people. There will always be people who would rather find a way to cheat than play honestly. I think they think it makes them clever, I disagree.

I just play to have fun and try not to let what someone else is doing spoil my enjoyment.

Petra_Fyde said:

I haven't gotten an egg from a hidden chest. I've found an awful lot of chests, with and without added luck, but I have got a few effigies, ingredients to make those sleeves, gems to imbue those slayer weapons I make so many of, maps to dig, etc plus stealthing around opening the chests is fun!
I haven't used all my points getting high end maps, I've paced it, alternating between items for my chars and maps.  I've dug greater and grand maps with my UO BBF, we've had fun doing that. I've done massive maps with my guild, and because I bought the maps, marked runes to the right area, gated everyone in and dug them, when we did manage to get an egg, it was mine to claim. The next one, if there is a next one, will be someone else's. Eggs aren't the only things in the maps that are worth having.

It's no good getting hung up on what bots are doing, why do they do it? Because they can, it wouldn't matter one iota if there were 'guaranteed drops', there will always be people who would rather buy everything and never actually play the content. The 'I can't be bothered to play, I'll just buy what I want' people. There will always be people who would rather find a way to cheat than play honestly. I think they think it makes them clever, I disagree.

I just play to have fun and try not to let what someone else is doing spoil my enjoyment.

Amen 

Petra_Fyde said:

I haven't gotten an egg from a hidden chest. I've found an awful lot of chests, with and without added luck, but I have got a few effigies, ingredients to make those sleeves, gems to imbue those slayer weapons I make so many of, maps to dig, etc plus stealthing around opening the chests is fun!
I haven't used all my points getting high end maps, I've paced it, alternating between items for my chars and maps.  I've dug greater and grand maps with my UO BBF, we've had fun doing that. I've done massive maps with my guild, and because I bought the maps, marked runes to the right area, gated everyone in and dug them, when we did manage to get an egg, it was mine to claim. The next one, if there is a next one, will be someone else's. Eggs aren't the only things in the maps that are worth having.

It's no good getting hung up on what bots are doing, why do they do it? Because they can, it wouldn't matter one iota if there were 'guaranteed drops', there will always be people who would rather buy everything and never actually play the content. The 'I can't be bothered to play, I'll just buy what I want' people. There will always be people who would rather find a way to cheat than play honestly. I think they think it makes them clever, I disagree.

I just play to have fun and try not to let what someone else is doing spoil my enjoyment.

Agreed.

I haven't done a ton of hidden chests (maybe 300-400) and while I haven't gotten a mature egg, I did finally manage to get an effigy so that was pretty cool. Side note here...with 120 real stealing it still took me 4 tries to actually steal it.

This will likely give popps ammunition, but it's not meant to...it's just my experience. I have spent most of time doing nests and more recently (past 2 weeks) doing them with a luck suit. I have been swapping my suit over to a different toon to get the most time with 5k+ luck.... it hasn't made a difference as I've seen zero eggs. That said, I've built up a ton of refinements and getting on average 60k per nest (I can easily do 10 in an hour) along with additional drops so it makes buying the maps less expensive. I've also been taking all the deco eggs from the nest in hopes they are worth while to turn in, but I am getting to the point where I'm running out of storage so those will start to be left behind soon. I've also started to leave behind the void frags because they do not stack and there is only that one item that requires them at this point. The other positive note on doing all these nest is all the clean up points I'm getting (including the maps); I'm clearing like 1k+ per massive nest which is like a free mannequin deed every time; the Devs also said they will look at cleanup rewards in 2026 so those points might be even more worthwhile next year.

While I'm not the biggest fan of the mature egg drop rate since I haven't been lucky enough to get one yet, it's not a huge deal since it's permanent content. The only knock against the current drop rate is that it doesn't let legit players strategically make gold... it's all luck/RNG if they get an egg rather than knowing if they do X they will be guaranteed a reward. 

The positives of all the bots/scripters (on ATL anyway) is that mature egg prices are already half of what they were when the event started. As time goes on the supply/demand ratio will reverse and mature eggs will be much cheaper. 

Haz free stuffs plez?

popps said:

I beg your pardon ?

I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Developers are limiting the release of Mature eggs because,

I never said that. Try again.
I said exactly the opposite.  🙁


PS: I won't read any further this time.. I'm done at the first wtf. have fun and good luck.

Petra_Fyde said:

I've dug greater and grand maps with my UO BBF

I just play to have fun and try not to let what someone else is doing spoil my enjoyment.

It's BFF, also UO is not a solo online game.. Flash news it has open world activities.

There is always going to be cheaters.. but the position of the dev is sooooo important.. with BS it's highly promoted.. u even doing it in that post of urs.
Hidding it vs promoting it. It used to be hidding it.. wich is f'ing sad.

Just got a 2784 mature egg with 2800 luck in deciet and I'm not a bot. Post less popps about your limited time and you may get one. 

vortex said:

*SNIP* I'm not a bot. *SNIP*

Prove it. 

Victim_Of_Siege said:

vortex said:

*SNIP* I'm not a bot. *SNIP*

Prove it. 

✔️

I don't believe these mature dragon eggs exist after at least 5-10+ hours a day of hidden chests, matriarch runs, and treasure chests I've not seen a single one myself since the patch released and I'm on the verge of say bye to playing for a while from burn out.  Not expecting them to just fall from the sky on every run but come on

This is certainly a multi faceted problem, pun intended.

I mean the whole conversation although full of arguments, is still up for grabs.

Are they supposed to be a fun reward, or something really rare?

And if there is real rarity only based on RNG, what does it serve?

Fun? or something else?

I think I am leaning towards Popps's opinion right now.

Where is the added fun?

However I will also say that this conversation also sadly always ends the same.

It's taboo because it indirectly generates funds...

It's more important IMO not to burn your players. Even online casinos, are programmed in such a way that they give 95-99% back to the players. That is right, if the RNG plays bad, it will be influenced to play good, just to fit the stats so its fair*ER* for everybody.

No conflicts of interests here, I am interested because philosophically, this does affect my gameplay and UX.

I would be interested in knowing the math for the impact luck is supposed to have.  

Ahua said:

Even online casinos, are programmed in such a way that they give 95-99% back to the players.

Wait, what?

Ahua said:

No conflicts of interests here, I am interested because philosophically, this does affect my gameplay and..

Oh, I see!

Oreogl said:

I think I will just buy the egg and call it a day.

The rarity ain't a problem for a good sandbox..


This eggs is pure joy for any optimize theorycrafter out there, wich is the problem if we consider it's rarity...


The main problem, imo, is how brokenly OP this is.. It out damage everything except the hound pack?
Plus it starts, all clean and fresh? A brand new fresh BiS, instead of a brand new BiS.

Imagine how dumb it would be to have every single user of a said template, on a sandbox, all using the same BiS items like a weap.... oh wait.. nevermind.. you are correct, the rarity is THE problem.   

Just to be clear, to me an egg like that.. it's a theorycrafter heaven design for tamers, good for sandbox.. It shouldn't be the new hype BiS pet.. It should have been everything else, type of stuff.
Does people still use Rune Beetle? 


Doing something BiS that rare.. yes, even knowing it's supply gonna spiral soon enough.. Is just doing the same mistake over and over that was done by AoS.. considering they distribute every f'ing BiS out there like candy during their temp event.. this is mental... all and nothing.. pick your temporary poison  😂


When I say everything else.. it could have been an item to extract eggs from a variety of wild animals out there.. like those that could use some love? A sandox tool, with good hardcap/limitation?! Instead of more of this..

Let's just do what AoS did while we still temporarly handing those brand new BiS like candies for halloween!

You don't need to make every interaction with me so emotional Sir. :P

Yes *online* casinos  are regulated and do not solely use a RNG. A casino is forced to "spread out" extra opportunities to win if the rate is bad over a determined period, so math is applied after the RNG.

This is well known, the machines are also usually programmed this way. There is a math calculation also to make sure the house keeps its edge, so it remains profitable for them. So you could be lucky with the RNG and finally the math says you're not.

I guess its a two layer RNG, you can get lucky to get lucky... and vice-versa. Which is pretty much what is discussed here, usually those systems are tested to make sure they return the proper math. This keeps it technically fair, while remaining non subjective because those extra chances to win or lose are applied equally to all depending on the current rate.

In the current situation here, those with more accounts would be more advantaged to be "assigned" an extra chances to win (very logical for Broadsword). So when the lucky ones log in, that "flag" would be used and removed.

No need to keep tabs on more players than those who have been randomly selected to have that big luck boost. This way the rate of return is equalized and spread out, not favoring the sole single person farming, but the collectivity.

I would also add an equation that identifies who got a lot of drops and give them more chance to get a RNG penalty, but we circle back to the first problem, I'm sure many would be against it. So maybe not use a penalty, but just a boost in this situation.

Win-Win.

Everyone happy.

Ahua said:

You don't need to make every interaction with me so emotional Sir. :P

Yes *online* casinos  are regulated and do not solely use a RNG. A casino is forced to "spread out" extra opportunities to win if the rate is bad over a determined period, so math is applied after the RNG...

I will stop here.. cuz...


Where I live the governement is regulating ALL gambling (wich is VERY RARE).. even online.. they theoretically giving back 48% and banking 52%.

Almost all online casinos are not regulated and even if they are.. I would believe the opposite of what you said.. 95-99% of the money is going to the house while gambler gets 1-5%.. but yeah, you are full of poop.


When u said I have no conflicts of interest AND it does affect me personally.. I was crying man.
I'll give you that.. you are funny.. VERY funny.

KroDuK said:

Just to be clear, to me an egg like that.. it's a theorycrafter heaven design for tamers, good for sandbox.. It shouldn't be the new hype BiS pet.. It should have been everything else, type of stuff.
Does people still use Rune Beetle? 


Doing something BiS that rare.. yes, even knowing it's supply gonna spiral soon enough.. Is just doing the same mistake over and over that was done by AoS.. considering they distribute every f'ing BiS out there like candy during their temp event.. this is mental... all and nothing.. pick your temporary poison  😂


When I say everything else.. it could have been an item to extract eggs from a variety of wild animals out there.. like those that could use some love? A sandox tool, with good hardcap/limitation?! Instead of more of this..

Let's just do what AoS did while we still temporarly handing those brand new BiS like candies for halloween!

If you were actually playing you'd know it's far from bis...

Grimbeard said:

it's far from bis...

Noted.

Ahua said:

This is certainly a multi faceted problem, pun intended.

I mean the whole conversation although full of arguments, is still up for grabs.

Are they supposed to be a fun reward, or something really rare?

And if there is real rarity only based on RNG, what does it serve?

Fun? or something else?

I think I am leaning towards Popps's opinion right now.

Where is the added fun?

However I will also say that this conversation also sadly always ends the same.

It's taboo because it indirectly generates funds...

It's more important IMO not to burn your players. Even online casinos, are programmed in such a way that they give 95-99% back to the players. That is right, if the RNG plays bad, it will be influenced to play good, just to fit the stats so its fair*ER* for everybody.

No conflicts of interests here, I am interested because philosophically, this does affect my gameplay and UX.

It's more important IMO not to burn your players.

Wow KD you are so full of judgement and prejudice, you didn't even stop to think.

Yes the fact that people are frustrated with this event, directly affects me, everyone tells me they are too busy to do anything else, they must have that egg at all costs. But I guess I'm glad it made you laugh. I have no conflict of interests on this RNG subject, I will not get eggs nor have I ever even had a vendor in game or ever even sold anything in and out of game.  

And if you bothered to look it up, you'd know the gambling regulations make it so they are supposed to give back most of what they take in, the edge is good because it is guaranteed, not because it is huge.

Of course unregulated casinos I guess exist, before you bring it up again lol... 8)

Which is why I proposed this solution popps, your way the boost would be subjective, my way the boost would be objective to another RNG. That RNG would just make sure that eventually after a period of time everyone gets a shot.

This makes "farmer" accounts as likely to get a luck boost, more fair for everyone objectively.

You will find stout opposition to a solution that is subjective in the current lets say paradoxical circumstances.

Honestly its not my business... but it sure has a vibe, and does affect the players who don't even think about all this indirectly.

                                                                     😂

Fudging Popps that demolish your argument even before it was made..
PS: that was not even an argument.. affect you directly or undirectly.. you still have a conflict of interest big dawg.

 popps said:

Luckily, though, Mature eggs.. permanent so... possible to.. get it after the Event ends.

Ahua said:

Of course unregulated casinos I guess exist, before you bring it up again lol... 8)

We were talking onlines, correct?
If we speaking casinos.. like in Vegas?
Those are legit criminal organization regulating themselves. For those we should regulate the winners.. a money laundering machine scheme.




As for the eggs.. Y'all trying to fix (lol) the problem without addressing it.. delightful;
Popps likes the extra candy after a certain number of chests.. (or he'd ask for a fix number of points)
You want a boost for totally not multi boxing matriarchs.. The totally legit cookie stuff.


PS2: You don't even realise it, but.. We agree on something; you also asking for more drop on Felucca (risk vs reward / gambling that include some sort of skill, like sports betting)

yes the casinos just an example to explain what could work here... we know what you think the problem is, that's for sure o.0, not many posts on the boards so when I read around I quickly knew how you see current issues. I'm not here to debate you but to add ideas that might or might not be used.

the goal is not to talk bout casinos or my puny irrelevant conflict of interest lol, its a game.

Goal is finding a balance, trying to be constructive. As I said it does not have to be emotional.

Ahua said:

not many posts on the boards so when I read around I quickly..

C'mon now.. stop, the bad roleplay.

Ahua said:

but to add ideas that...

We know the agenda..

Ahua said:

Goal is finding a balance..

This is why I mention y'all ain't addressing the problem.. That very rare reward should have been something totally different.. a good sandbox tool to make a good sandbox game.. not THE sandbox tool for THE new Theme Park beauty of the month.

The AoS touch they brang back.. was THE major mistake that was made.. if we speak rarity.

At this point, I'd rather they put it on EA store with a front page pub everytime you log in.. Let's not be mean.. they should put it on the cash cash when the event end. Just cut the middle affiliate man.

The problem KD, is that you argue everything in anything, so if we're just trying to give feedback or possible solution paths (like I did, take some and leave some), you pit every part against that biggest mistake (according to you) ever we can't argue against.

I'm pretty sure that it won't happen because you keep repeating it.

I think quite the opposite actually, anyways. That was my part in this thread, over.

"the AgEnDa" 0.o

Sorry, thread hijack over.