Able to log into these forums on first try?

I have been able to for about a week or more on the first try.
Others also?

Seems to be working a bit better on the PC now.  Mobile device was always fine but PC is working better for me.  

I haven't had to do the Hokey Pokey for a few weeks. Works great.

Yes, you are right, I also noticed it.

They said a fix was coming, it seems it is in.

It means I can get my posts locked just so much more. 🙂

Much better.

For the last week I was logging in on the first and second tries.

However, just now, I lost count at 50 and it easily took 2-3x that amount.

I had to log in twice just now. We'll see how it goes.

Is it working?? If you see this then I guess it finally is for me!!

I’ve stayed long in, which is a miracle.

First time in forever.

MsScarlett said:

Is it working?? If you see this then I guess it finally is for me!!

Just click on the virtue star (profil/edit) after logging in.. it will tell you if u have the perm or not.

This thread is kinda sad, but at the same time hilarious. People are excited that they can login to the official forums after all these years unbelievable. talk about mixed feelings here should we cry or laugh. Not a good look for all those new people coming to play. Maybe this should be locked and hidden. I’m happy it’s being talked about I think 

Yup the usual complainers complaining about the forum working properly.  Shocking.

I never had a problem I used Firefox most people dont like Firefox and will not use it. 

Pawain said:

Yup the usual complainers complaining about the forum working properly.  Shocking.

This is the thing you spoken too fast, some of us are more realistic.. still some bugs.. Like the one I just experienced.. I enter the password.. before pressing enter I hit another button (adding a character to my password) I was like oups... but weirdly enough I was logged in and when I press on the wheel (virtue star) I had permission..

But I couldn't post.. so yeah.. bug still happening.. I logged in my forum account with an extra character added at the last second.. but I was not able to post.. in short.. I was able to connect (not really) with the wrong password.. before it would tell me no perm by pressing "setting" now I couldn't post and it never told me I had NO PERM like it used to before.. if I had not experienced the 80-90 attempt to connect on the forum.. I would have never guessed why i was not able to post on the forum (no perm)

Skett said:

This thread is kinda sad, but at the same time hilarious. People are excited that they can login to the official forums after all these years unbelievable. talk about mixed feelings here should we cry or laugh. Not a good look for all those new people coming to play. Maybe this should be locked and hidden. I’m happy it’s being talked about I think 

Do we need to add McDougle to your name 

Do not insult Skett with the
 stuff    

KroDuK said:

Do not insult Skett with the
 stuff    

McDougles aren't made overnight it's years of feeling ignored..

Grimbeard said:

Skett said:

This thread is kinda sad, but at the same time hilarious. People are excited that they can login to the official forums after all these years unbelievable. talk about mixed feelings here should we cry or laugh. Not a good look for all those new people coming to play. Maybe this should be locked and hidden. I’m happy it’s being talked about I think 

Do we need to add McDougle to your name 

Grimbeard said:

KroDuK said:

Do not insult Skett with the
 stuff    

McDougles aren't made overnight it's years of feeling ignored..

Its sad we have all been "ignored" and have become complacent puppets

Skett said:

Grimbeard said:

KroDuK said:

Do not insult Skett with the
 stuff    

McDougles aren't made overnight it's years of feeling ignored..

Its sad we have all been "ignored" and have become complacent puppets

I'm holding out hope we are getting communication now can they listen to feedback 

Gathering feedback will be a challenge for to long it seemed the ra ra crowd was given free rein to troll and get any thread with a unpopular opinion shut down that will have to stop and at least for reasonable people it seems better let's hope we can mend fences and keep this game that is literally interwoven in our life healthy and growing 

I wonder what is worse.. the fact that i'm reading fences instead of bridges or the fact that I approve this message. 

Grimbeard said:

Gathering feedback will be a challenge for to long it seemed the ra ra crowd was given free rein to troll and get any thread with a unpopular opinion shut down that will have to stop and at least for reasonable people it seems better let's hope we can mend fences and keep this game that is literally interwoven in our life healthy and growing 

Those very same trolls are the ones guiding the devs and the only people the devs have ever listened to when they listen at all. NL is a micro tailor suited game for the tiny niche pom pom crowd 

The egos are way to big for reaching out and actually listening to those players you seem to hate so much. 

Grimbeard said:

Skett said:

Grimbeard said:

KroDuK said:

Do not insult Skett with the
 stuff    

McDougles aren't made overnight it's years of feeling ignored..

Its sad we have all been "ignored" and have become complacent puppets

I'm holding out hope we are getting communication now can they listen to feedback 

What more is it you’re wanting them to communicate? If you read and watch the interviews 

no more expansions 
no more booster
no more land 
phase out the holidays events items 
FOCUS on NL
he loves it im guessing it was 100% his idea 

I believe he hates production I believe they all do tbh as well as not liking most of the players. It’s just a pay check it seems. 

Skett said:

What more is it you’re wanting them to communicate? If you read and watch the interviews 

no more expansions 
no more booster
no more land 
phase out the holidays events items 
......
I believe he hates production I believe they all do tbh as well as not liking most of the players. It’s just a pay check it seems. 

Maybe I'm missing something, I was gone for over a decade, but the last expansion and last new land was 10 years ago, the last booster was 15 years ago.

Did you all spend the last 10 years believing there would be another expansion after ToL or a second booster after High Seas?

As for holiday/event items, do we really need more of them?  We will probably get some this fall anyways.

As for "just a paycheck" they could probably all be making more money at other companies that have bigger MMOs or take jobs within other EA groups/games.  Working on UO opened a lot of doors for a lot of people. Anybody who sticks around UO for more than a year or two clearly likes it.

Skett said:

Grimbeard said:

Skett said:

Grimbeard said:

KroDuK said:

Do not insult Skett with the
 stuff    

McDougles aren't made overnight it's years of feeling ignored..

Its sad we have all been "ignored" and have become complacent puppets

I'm holding out hope we are getting communication now can they listen to feedback 

(Not an attack) 

What more is it you’re wanting them to communicate? If you read and watch the interviews 

no more expansions 
no more booster
no more land 
phase out the holidays events items 
FOCUS on NL
he loves it im guessing it was 100% his idea 

I believe he hates production I believe they all do tbh as well as not liking most of the players. It’s just a pay check it seems. 

Only way this game gets better is under new management and new dev team bs is completely incompetent and doesn’t give a f about uo it’s just a pay check until it dies off 

Well communication is two way there is room for improvement with their listening skills 

Oh my mistake I didn’t know uo wasn’t supposed to have any more expansion boosters or updates after a certain point. Someone should tell all the other mmorpg that. 

Skett said:

Oh my mistake I didn’t know uo wasn’t supposed to have any more expansion boosters or updates after a certain point. Someone should tell all the other mmorpg that. 

We aren't going to get any more expansions, boosters, or theme packs.  You know how I know that?  Because the last and only the booster (High Seas - 2010), the theme packs (Gothic and Rustic - 2011), the deco collection (King's Collection - 2013), and the expansion (Time of Legends, 2015) didn't hit the numbers they wanted. 

Otherwise, in the last 15 years, we would have seen more boosters (this disappoints me the most, I would have liked a yearly High Seas-level booster to various parts of UO), in the last 11-14 years we would have seen another theme pack or deco collection, and in the last 10 years we would have seen another expansion.

Now maybe you are more patient than I am, but when my middle-aged self sees that no expansions/boosters/theme packs have happened in the 10+ years that I was gone, that tells me that it wasn't worth the time they put into the last round.

I would happily eat my words if we got something big for the 30th anniversary, and who knows, maybe some of the NL stuff will be used within production UO to make for a huge event, but anything for the 30th needs to be worked on now, contractors hired, etc.

By the way, I played WOW and FF XIV from the beginning, played Guild Wars, etc. and have gone through a lot of expansions for all of those games. I would not be surprised if I hit all 100+ dungeons in FF XIV multiple times. I bought all of the UO expansions as they released except for ToL. I know how the expansion game works.

Edit:  My "Anybody who sticks around UO for more than a year or two clearly likes it." comment was about developers.  There's a massive (pun intended) amount of active MMORPGs out there with new ones starting every year that they could look at.

Skett said:

ya I guess your right we don’t need any holiday events or items on production we can all bank sit and talk about the good ole days.

Do those re-hued pumpkins or picnic baskets or Christmas trees or Santa statues bring in new players or bring back returning players?

Because if so, where did all of those new and returning players go in the last 10 years? Why are there fewer players now than when I last left UO, because there are certainly a lot of holiday and event items that have been added in that timeframe.

Giving us 20 different hues of a pumpkin or a chest or basket doesn't do anything to help bring back or bring in players, it just takes up live team resources and it just makes a small minority of bank sitters and people GMing in spreadsheets a bunch of gold.

Something has to change to bring in new and returning players. EJ probably helped a bit, but something has to change. Event or holiday items do nothing.

I agree
once again after reading and watching the interview I realize all they are going to do is focus on NL mostly
 they will put a lots of items over on NL to beg everyone to go there and a couple times a year put some paste and copy events with left overs from NL and 1 or 2 new items on production 

Lokea said:

We aren't going to get any more expansions, boosters, or theme packs.  You know how I know that?  Because the last and only the booster (High Seas - 2010), the theme packs (Gothic and Rustic - 2011), the deco collection (King's Collection - 2013), and the expansion (Time of Legends, 2015) didn't hit the numbers they wanted. 

As for the Booster pack they announced more than a decade ago, they would stop those, it was a failure from the start.. it was planned to release multiple booster (smaller extension) instead of doing huge extension like SA was.. they scrap that real fast.. HS was just to promote EC and EC was still very unpopular.. they did not help themselves on their new planning with their first EC user booster..
IT did what it was ultimately supposed to do.. help their baby client popularity.

the collector pack no idea what happen with those.. i just skip those news personally.

As for ToL.. what numbers are u talking exactly?? they legit GAVE IT FOR FREE to any sub account when it release... surely u don't speak about money.. it was FREE!
If u speak about old players coming back.. it was an utopia.. we didn't asked for more content but fix like on the CC or the power creeping with all the damage SA have done to the game like Magic Finder.. BODS, nerfing 95% of the content, mainstreaming Sampies.. etc,etc..

If u mean they wanted people to sub MORE account.. I mean sket has 21?? god damn.

KroDuK said:

As for the Booster pack they announced more than a decade ago, they would stop those, it was a failure from the start.. it was planned to release multiple booster (smaller extension) instead of doing huge extension like SA was.. they scrap that real fast.. HS was just to promote EC and EC was still very unpopular.. they did not help themselves on their new planning with their first EC user booster..
IT did what it was ultimately supposed to do.. help their baby client popularity.
 

I disagree on High Seas - if you were around before HS, using a boat really sucked at times.  HS ultimately brought a lot of activity to the water, and not just for the serious fishermen.  It was a good idea in terms of using these booster packs to add to various aspects of UO - if you weren't into fishing or nautical stuff, you didn't have to pay for it, but if you were, it really opened things up for you. I would have liked to have seen what they had planned for other booster packs (we used to joke with them that many of us would have paid $15 for a basement booster pack).

I know you hate the EC and High Seas, but do you honestly believe that everything they added in HS, the new ships, cannon, boat movement by mouse, improvements to fishing, etc. was done just to help the EC?  Really?  Are you being serious? Everything listed below was to help the EC?

Ultima Online: High Seas - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia

If they wanted to help the EC in a dramatic fashion, you know what they would have done? Improved the artwork beyond what was tried with KR. The beginning and the end right there. The artwork.  That's how you help the EC.

KroDuK said:

As for ToL.. what numbers are u talking exactly?? they legit GAVE IT FOR FREE to any sub account when it release... surely u don't speak about money..

The only numbers that mattered for ToL were subs, new and returning, which is exactly why they released it for free. 

If it brought in several tens of thousands of new and former players, we would have seen more expansions. But it didn't hit whatever numbers they wanted.  The other things (theme packs, deco, collections, boosters) were about revenue from existing players, but ToL was all about the subs.

Lokea said:

I disagree on High Seas - if you were around before HS, using a boat really sucked at times.

I will stop you right here.. I can see where it's going.. not the point.. upgrading water content was great on paper. Do not ignore the rest of the message.. u always does that taking only one part of a sentence to build a whole brick on it and ignoring all the rest.. this is 100% not the point i'm making here.. HS was unplayable on CC.. cuz CC was build with a real bare minimum water content.. it sucked.. yes.. cuz it was almost useless except for the oasis spawn and housing (islands)a


ps: It would not sucked at times.. it would just suck.. agreed.

Lokea said:

The only numbers that mattered for ToL were subs, new and returning, which is exactly why they released it for free. 

Exactly my point.. it was doomed to fail from the start.. (except the new sub, was not new "players"; keep reading)

Lokea said:

If it brought in several tens of thousands of new and former players, we would have seen more expansions. But it didn't hit whatever numbers they wanted.

Exactly my point. "new"

Lokea said:

The other things (theme packs, deco, collections, boosters) were about revenue from existing players,

100% agreed.. but i'd prefer not add more "talk smack" I prefered to be hypocritical and ignored that part while closing my eyes cuz... (u won't like this)

Lokea said:

but ToL was all about the subs.

diagree here.. it was the same goal as those theme park "deco" pack.. they wanted the actual players base to sub all their account to show big numbers that month, but the result was even worse, imo, for the game cuz.. like they killed even more the old content with a new gauntlet and other stuff like that.. while shifting to their new game models with the numbers they have shown that month.. sub as much as u can we gonna give u bribe events as a reward for your trains of bots.. ToL number every couple of months.. do as u please.

As a retuning/old player.. asking them to pay money for ToL when the power creep is already a problem.. to acces the new gauntlet, some pet skills, OP stuff like specialisation, etc? is... U ask me to contribute to the problems?? while paying u more money?  😂

It was not for making good money again with new players, nor for older players to come back.. it was the same optic as those "deco" pack.. asking more from existing players base.. like u are a lot with tons of account (for housing) subbing them one every ~3 months.. that ToL months.. they wanted to show big numbers.. that's it. but how?? at what cost? for what?

For @KroDuK and @Skett and others who hate NL, hate the EC, hate a lot of stuff in general, what ideas do you have to bring new players in and former players back?

 I really want to know what ideas you all have.

Because you see, my having been gone from UO from the early 2010s up through a few months ago seems to have given me a perspective that some of you don't seem to have, and that is this - doing what they've been doing year-after-year since ToL, minus EJ, you know rolling out the event items and the holiday items and the updates here and there, hasn't done UO any real long-term good.

When I left, you couldn't place a keep on any shards, you couldn't place in New Magincia or close to Luna or outside of Zento on any shard.  When I came back this year, I placed right at one of the gates of Zento with no problem on my original/home shard, I could have placed in several places in New Magincia, I could have placed very close to Luna (just one or two screens over). I could have placed a keep in Fel.  And when I went around to the various other shards, outside of Atlantic and a few Japanese shards, the story was the same - lots and lots of prime real estate, including plenty of keep spots. It's stunning how much of a ghost town many shards are now.  It made me even think about not re-subbing.

 Maybe sticking to the events and holiday items and other stuff in that nature kept the pixel collectors around, maybe it kept the whales around, but it's not bringing in new players or bringing back old ones.. "Whales" are a term used in gaming for a minority of players who provide a large amount of revenue for a game. I would imagine that UO has its share of whales - I know I used to spend well over $100 a month during my prime playing.

If they don't start trying new things, is everybody who is subscribed here in May of 2025 still going to be around in September of 2027 and is the revenue going to be the same?  

UO needs something to bring in new and former players, and it needs something to get new players acclimated really fast so that they stick around.

Lokea said:

For @ KroDuK and @ Skett and others who hate NL, hate the EC, hate a lot of stuff in general, what ideas do you have to bring new players in and former players back?

 I really want to know what ideas you all have.

*smh*

@Lokea ;
to answer your first question 

I had a friend whose brother is one of the largest residential properties investors. They hired me to cleanup several properties and replace the contractors not performing. It was an area of construction I wasn’t very familiar with a lot of seismic and geologic work I wasn’t at all comfortable with. The first week I started as the new site lead superintendent a few of the contractors tried to test me and would start asking me questions and the process and procedures to try and make me look incompetent. I simply told the why are you asking me how to do YOUR Job? Apparently I’ve made a huge mistake I really thought you knew what you was doing your fired I’ll find someone who does. It’s not my job to know your job it’s my job to see to it that you do your job. Guess what none of the contractors or subs ever tried to pink me again 

when you go out to eat does the chiefs ask you how to prepare your meal NO 

we are paying this team to create content for its players that we all can play not just a tiny niche crowd so don’t ask me ask them it’s their JOB not mine 

Acclimated really quick? So if any new players attempt to play NL they have to do a insane amount of reading and boring quest to gain skill points fast Which NOTHING like production shards if not you take the other path and are punished and skill gains are slower 
the templates are not the same the weapons armor nothing the same as production. Then after you have learned all that your sent to shards that have a completely play style and the cost of items are much much more expensive and some of the better items you can’t get because they are shard bound 

NL is not for new players its just a small add on item based niche games for a very small crowd 

On paper NL looks solid.. it sounded like the reborn system on T4C.. like u could level up a character play on it for monthsss.. then to a certain point reborn lvl 1 (for 5 stats points added.. like 0.4% extra power wth a hardcap on reborn (usually 3 to 10, depending on your server.)

I really thought the "reborn" system/ legacy system was just to add a good deep theorycrafting system.. u do your own "DNA" and mix your blood line with other players to do somehing unique on a old school feeling UO.. no power creep, solid open world PvP, good champs.. viable builds.. but yeah nah.. it's a passion project.. making a new, mostly PvE, theme park griefers light UO version every year.. that's gonna end up being another bribe, at best, for actual players.


The MINIMUM NL could have done is replace the old TC only players server.. most of them went on illegal server.. but you have to offer them something better than their FREE shards, you know.. and theme park ain't it.

Theme parks are usually fun for the masses NL is  more of an opera book reading musical club.., 

lol.. theme park can be a lot of fun.. but the problem of theme park u need to keep releasing content on them.. where a sandbox do not require that much new content.. when it's a good one.

You just work on tools for your players with minimal new content.

Like open world housing.. is one of the best tool UO got.. I really thought HS would use that tool.. like make guild housing (islands) for navy bases for bigger guild (king of the hill mini game) and other stuff for good OW PvP.. finally it was mostly only to promote EC and it's automation.. like fishing white pearl while watching a movie 🙁

Skett said:

when you go out to eat does the chiefs ask you how to prepare your meal NO 

we are paying this team to create content for its players that we all can play not just a tiny niche crowd so don’t ask me ask them it’s their JOB not mine 

And when you go out to eat, if the chef decides to add to the menu, do you get upset and claim that they are ignoring their other dishes, even though you can order those other dishes on the menu and still enjoy them?

And we'd have to define what "content" means, because some became upset when they mentioned they were scaling back on holiday items, as if those were somehow content vital to UO, when in reality it's pixel crack for a "tiny niche crowd" while for the rest it's something nice to toss in an overcrowded house or up on a vendor.

To me, real content is the larger publishes, and yes, things like NL.  Not every bit of content appeals to every person, and it's not meant to.

Skett said:

They should have listened to the majority of the players but they didn’t 

Where is this opinion of the "majority of the players" located, because it's not the official forums - I check these every day, and sometimes there's less 10 posts from 4-5 people, and most are events or selling/buying rares.

The forums are a tiny, tiny fraction of UO's playerbase, but it's where people can complain to the dev team if they want to.

And I can tell you from experience that the majority of players would probably like..*drumroll* more players, and so something has to change.

@Lokea

ive never been out to dinner and the chef decided to give me something different than what I ordered but then again I don’t eat fast food or consider them a restaurant either but enjoy your meal I guess 

you keep going on about holiday items I haven’t liked any of them for a long time but the events have been fun pumpkin fields trick or treat krampus ect some go way back and are fun holiday events sorry if those offended you

Most of players are not playing NL so one could guess that would be the majority of players don’t like NL ? No ? It’s math you know numbers ? How many people are playing on NL not counting multiple accounts and bots. It’s a very small amount compared to the amount of players not playing that would be the drummmrollll deep breath Minority ? No ? 

KroDuK said:

Lokea said:

I disagree on High Seas - if you were around before HS, using a boat really sucked at times.

I u always does that taking only one part of a sentence to build a whole brick on it and ignoring all the rest.

Seem like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

Victim_Of_Siege said:

everyone stfu and someone bring this cat a pie!!

ok nvm..

NamelessJourney said:

Seem like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

I answered to every point he made ^^
He quote an entire paragraph talking about many HS point; like the EC. Finds out, he only needed to quote a few words within a single sentence.. the last time it was the same.. to the point we start talking about harry potters MMO to get somewhere cuz our "convo" was..

PS: I thought it was clear.. the irony when i quoted different sentences; with the same answer.

Skett said:

Acclimated really quick? So if any new players attempt to play NL they have to do a insane amount of reading and boring quest to gain skill points fast Which NOTHING like production shards if not you take the other path and are punished and skill gains are slower 

Sometimes I wonder if you even play the same game as I am.  Skill gains on production shards are only fast if you read a ton of tutorials (and  you have to know where they are and what the current ones are and  not some 15 year-old one that ranks highly in Google) and have a lot of gold in the bank.  I know this, because I have GMed a bunch of stuff over the past few months that I didn't years ago, and because I have helped my kids GM a ton of stuff.  I burned through tens of thousands of raw materials and millions in gold to rapidly finish off several characters (and these are not obscure skills).

A new player would be screwed if they came in and wanted to gain a lot of skill points fast in the non-combatant roles.  And if they wanted to do combat, well thanks to everybody steering them to Atlantic, they aren't going to be able to afford the gear they need to survive.

UO is unlike any other MMO and having watched my kids work their way through production UO, I keep seeing little things here and there that are a problem for new players who are used to other MMOs, and I see so many things that might just cause new players to quit and it bugs the absolute heck out of me to see those places that might stop a new player in their tracks. I have played through a lot of other MMO's tutorials, and my kids have done the more mainstream MMO tutorials (WOW, Final Fantasy, Runescape, and a few others) and UO desperately needs something to guide people along for a bit more than they get out of New Haven.

And people need to stop steering newbies to Atlantic.

And yes, even a true sandbox MMO needs something to guide new players along.  NL is not perfect, but it's something that players from other MMOs can more easily grasp, and at the same time, there are regular UO players playing it.

Skett said:

@ Lokea

ive never been out to dinner and the chef decided to give me something different than what I ordered but then again I don’t eat fast food or consider them a restaurant either but enjoy your meal I guess 

Did you login to UO one day and the production shards were all gone and only NL was in their places?

Because that hasn't happened to me.  LS and Siege are still right there for me, and if I want to scroll down the list and hit up NL for something different, I can do that as well.

It's funny, we probably agree more than you realize, and if you wanted the TLDR for most of my posts, it's this:  Whatever has been going on over the last decade has not worked. They have to do something new.  You may not like it, and that simply means it's not geared towards you, but at the end of the day, your production shards are still there, but they will only remain there if there are enough people coming in to replace people who age out, get bored, have kids, decide it's not worth it financially, or find something in another version of UO that they prefer (maybe a 1990s PvP fest), etc.

The alternative is that they could have put NL onto the production shards and changed some systems and skill gains and guilds, etc., but my guess is a whole lot of people would complain about that.

@lokea im not going to read all that ill just say you 1000% correct

Lokea said:

Skett said:

Acclimated really quick? So if any new players attempt to play NL they have to do a insane amount of reading and boring quest to gain skill points fast Which NOTHING like production shards if not you take the other path and are punished and skill gains are slower 

Sometimes I wonder if you even play the same game as I am.  Skill gains on production shards are only fast if you read a ton of tutorials and have a lot of gold in the bank.  I know this, because I have GMed a bunch of stuff I didn't years ago, and because I have helped my kids GM a ton of stuff.  I burned through tens of thousands of raw materials and millions in gold to rapidly finish off several characters (and these are not obscure skills).

He's saying.. u can level fast on NL via questing and other stuff that is NOTHING like UO.

You telling him not sure if we play the same game cuz skill gains on production can be expensive and only fast if u do a tons of reasearch..


His point.. yes u can level up fast and easy but it does not prepare you for what UO really is...
You arguing with no one else than yourself here..

Lokea said:

A new player would be screwed if they came in and wanted to gain a lot of skill points fast in the non-combatant roles.  And if they wanted to do combat, well thanks to everybody steering them to Atlantic, they aren't going to be able to afford the gear they need to survive.

UO is unlike any other MMO and having watched my kids work their way through production UO, I keep seeing little things here and there that are a problem for new players who are used to other MMOs, and I see so many things that might just cause new players to quit and it bugs the absolute heck out of me to see those places that might stop a new player in their tracks. I have played through a lot of other MMO's tutorials, and my kids have done the more mainstream MMO tutorials (WOW, Final Fantasy, Runescape, and a few others) and UO desperately needs something to guide people along for a bit more than they get out of New Haven.

And people need to stop steering newbies to Atlantic.

And yes, even a true sandbox MMO needs something to guide new players along.  NL is not perfect, but it's something that players from other MMOs can more easily grasp, and at the same time, there are regular UO players playing it.

Good point.. about noob could use a tutorial and better guidance.. pretty sure Skett also agrees with that.. (never seen him disagreed on that)

Personally I really thought the new haven stuff for new players was filling this tutorial need and guidance.. I never tried it personally.
Let's wrap an advanced character token with new accounts on their first sub.. do we still need NL after that?


PS: I'd totally agree with ATL for new players but with the heresy of a 14 yrs xfer shield token.. I wouldn't recommend a noob to start anywhere else than ATL or EU.. as for returning players.. use those dead shards to rebuild your economy, 100%.. u know what u doing (can do it alone) and closer to the 14 yrs.. a noob on a ghost shard is a bad idea, imo.. and like Skeet mention.. it's not NL that gonna prepare them for that. (wich u totally ignored and went somewhere else; the tutorial stuff for NL a game that is nothing like UO prodo)

Skett said:

Most of players are not playing NL so one could guess that would be the majority of players don’t like NL ? No ? It’s math you know numbers ? How many people are playing on NL not counting multiple accounts and bots. It’s a very small amount compared to the amount of players not playing that would be the drummmrollll deep breath Minority ? No ? 

You could apply the same logic to any shard that isn't Atlantic or a couple of the Japanese shards, but it's also what time of day you are logging along with other factors.

I've seen more players on NL than I see on a lot of production shards.  Is it that they don't like Origin, Baja, Oceania, Lake Austin, Siege, Mugen, and a dozen+ other production shards?  Or is it that it's depending upon the shard and what time you login, and how much of the population are just paying to keep their houses/vendors, etc.?

One nice thing about NL for existing players is that you don't have to be in a rush to play it right now.  Yes, some players would love to know what's going to transfer before jumping in, but for a lot of players who are interested, it's there, and it's not as time-limited as some events were in the past, so they can wait and play it when it fits their schedule. That's certainly my case.  I've got a list of things to do on LS and Siege before I commit fully to NL.

@Lokea ; your logic is extremely flawed and i really dont feel like pushing a stone atm

Lokea said:

I've seen more players on NL than I see on a lot of production shards. 

How big is NL map? Does it have a lot of content? You know.. since u compare it with production.. just checking, if we considering everything here. My feeling was.. 90% of the time NL was slighty more populated than a dead shard.. with a 10% crowded.

Lokea said:

One nice thing about NL for existing players is that you don't have to be in a rush to play it right now.  Yes, some players would love to know what's going to transfer before jumping in, but for a lot of players who are interested, it's there, and it's not as time-limited as some events were in the past, so they can wait and play it when it fits their schedule. That's certainly my case.  I've got a list of things to do on LS and Siege before I commit fully to NL.

It's one of his point he keeps repeating.. it's good for a small portion of existing players..
imo Skett almost sound scared to be forced to go grind stuff to extract from NL.

@Lokea who ru on LS?

Skett said:

@ Lokea  your logic is extremely flawed and i really dont feel like pushing a stone atm

My logic is that UO needs more paying players to either try it out (or just return) and stick around.  Nothing done since ToL, outside of maybe a bump from EJ, has done that in the last decade, and unless they hire some contractors, the days of new expansions ended 10 years ago. 

Is NL going to bring in new (or returning) players by itself? No, of course not, but I do not think NL was created in a vacuum, and I think there are other things in the works for the 30th. That's always been the nature of UO. It's just that not everything is as easy as the old days of picking apart UOP or MUL files and seeing new artwork ahead of announcements or publishes and figuring it out. I don't even know if people pick apart the art files anymore when there are client updates to compare them to previous art files.

I get that the NL is not for you and that you don't like it, but you also devote an extremely large amount of your forum posts to telling everybody how bad it is, when the majority of UO players don't even touch the UO.com forums, and you are not changing anybody's minds.

I mean no offense by this, but sometimes you remind me of a friend of mine who had 10 paid accounts and he was also paying for two accounts for a guildmate who couldn't afford it, and so conservatively he was paying over $1,500 a year to EA - I know you may think that is crazy and that nobody pays for that many accounts, but I saw the proof and I didn't really judge him for it - he had plenty of money and it wasn't hurting him or his family.  He was constantly angry at various things that the UO producers were doing, angry about how the TD client and then KR was handled and would let anybody and everybody know it on Stratics and on UOForums and on UO blogs.

I would jokingly tell him that he still supported what they were doing, because he was giving them over $1,500 a year for the dozen accounts he was paying for, but he wouldn't quit. He was tilting at windmills.

You love UO, you want it to succeed.  I love UO, I want it to succeed, but we differ on how to do that, or maybe even on how that's measured.  I don't see a point in trying to squeeze more revenue from the existing player base, I think it's got to be new or returning players.  

If NL is the only thing they have planned, I will come back here and apologize and say you were right about everything, but I don't think it is, so I'm willing to see where things go.

I spend over easily over $4000 a year on UO
Me closing down 16 account now and then another 2 or 3 in shortly after isn't going to make any difference at all, it wont even be noticeable to UO it will have ZERO impact. And I realize a complete nobody to them.  I have a friend that has over 50 account and know others that have 90 and I'm sure there are a lot of others with accounts in the same range. Now if they start closing account it might be noticeable possibly. (none of them have said they are nor have asked them)
As far as them "squeeze more revenue from the existing player base" they already are
they have adding new items (rehued mounts) putting items on sale in the UO store in less than a couple of months. There has been more UO store activity in the last id say 6 weeks than it seems the last couple years combined. Id guess because they are needing the revenue but who knows.

I hope the 30th anny  is a huge party but I dont thank they have any plans as of yet.

Nl was supposed to bring in "the biggest audience ever"  but none of it is for new players to learn how production works so what is NL for ?

They dont have anything else planned we will get pub120 which I'm betting will mostly be copy and paste type event with one new "huge" mount while NL gets multiple new mounts. (the reason we get a new horse will become clear later)

Yes I'm unhappy (and so are others) because to me, we are all paying to support this game (team) and only a small group gets year round content while the rest of us have to wait in between publishes to get anything they seem to have a tailor made mini game that gets new pets and items added all year. so we are all paying for a small group to have extra entertainment that suits them.

Both made good points.. Lokea believe in NL and Skett ain't.
This is the only difference.

One believe it's gonna bring more players on UO the other believe it's going to be a permanent crutch for prodo. If it's a temporary crutch that could bring numbers we could come to an agreement here..

Only time will tell but personally I'm seeing history repeat itself; CC & EC.. u can't stop EC even to save the life of the CC, cuz doing so u've just killed the EC.. I would say the same for NL & prodo, at this point.
The actual dev team feel powerless in front the CC and prodo.. wich explain EC and NL.


Personally i'm also clapping at the team for cancelling holiday's even if it's only to work on NL.. but when i'm looking at my avatar picture i'm like?!? really!? Not an april's fool..


When the extraction day is coming up.. the dev team better be ready.. one way or another it's going to yell.. cuz what ever the NL crowd here saying it's all fun and the community is excellent we having a tons of fun, it's there to help the noobs.. if it's not bribe worthy..

On the other side, most of the players that ain't touching NL going to be piss, if it's juicy!! Extra grind on them, when NL was supposed to combat that aspect.. theme park non grindy shard to help the "new" players.. right? 

Skett said:

And at the round table they said don’t just say it’s bad or I don’t like NL tell us why and how and what.

Imagine if they would make that call for production shards.. in fact he wouldn't have to ask.. he'd just have look in the bin to pick a few from a looong list.

Damage control already, it ain't smelling good.. it's smelling the HUGE bribe, to me.

Skett said:

@ Lokea 

I spend over easily over $4000 a year on UO

Me closing down 16 account now and then another 2 or 3 in shortly after isn't going to make any difference at all, it wont even be noticeable to UO it will have ZERO impact. And I realize a complete nobody to them.  I have a friend that has over 50 account and know others that have 90 and I'm sure there are a lot of others with accounts in the same range. Now if they start closing account it might be noticeable possibly. (none of them have said they are nor have asked them)

I dont like the path they are taking UO that's why I'm closing accounts and to be honest I'm actually happy about it. even tho its insanely boring.  

That is...stunning. I don't even know what to say to that, other than you probably should take a break if you are unhappy. I've taken them at times before my last big one when I was unhappy or bored, and UO was more enjoyable when I came back. You should not spend that kind of money on something that makes you unhappy.  You think you and the 50+ and the 90 wouldn't be noticed if you left, but you probably would - I would be surprised if UO has more than 15,000 - 20,000 paid accounts, so a drop of $20,000 from just three people would be noticed.

Don't stick with stuff that makes you unhappy, just understand that not everybody else is as pessimistic about the final outcome of NL, etc.

Skett said:

Remember nobody asked for NL and many over the years have voiced they dont want it and they are still pushing it on all of us. basically if you dont like NL that's your problem not ours.

And at the round table they said don’t just say it’s bad or I don’t like NL tell us why and how and what. Well for the last 5 years we have told them we don’t want a seasonal shard did they listen ? So now we have NL and because they asked to tell them what we would fix changed ect I’ll start I’d like NL scraped I hate the reading the quests the repetition of it all. Will they listen nope never have listened to anyone outside their bubble and never will. 

 

How many people are we talking about?  Because before I committed to resubscribing and getting my kids playing, I spent a lot of time reading old posts on forums here and on Stratics, just to get up to speed, and it seemed like it was maybe 5-10 people driving about 90% of the negativity on both sites.

It's like Amazon.com reviews - you get a lot of people who are unsatisfied posting, because people who are content generally don't feel the need to say anything (which is why some companies have to go out of their way to get their customers to post reviews on Amazon). 

 If you told me that 75% of the people reading the UO.com forums are looking for help with some item or game mechanic or dungeon or trade, I'd wonder why the number is so low, because you can look at the latest updated threads every day and see how little engagement there is, even though there is probably a lot of traffic (I constantly get linked to UO.com threads from Google). We are in this weird moment in time where you have an extremely mature MMO where the majority of players have played for years and so don't bother reading forums or blogs outside of new publishes, other than hitting up maybe UOGuide or the UO.com Wiki for information.

I've setup forums for other games (WOW, EVE, FFXIV), and have moderated some extremely large ones and they just aren't good snapshots of how a game is doing anyways or what the players like.

Lokea said:

Skett said:

@ Lokea 

I spend over easily over $4000 a year on UO

Me closing down 16 account now and then another 2 or 3 in shortly after isn't going to make any difference at all, it wont even be noticeable to UO it will have ZERO impact. And I realize a complete nobody to them.  I have a friend that has over 50 account and know others that have 90 and I'm sure there are a lot of others with accounts in the same range. Now if they start closing account it might be noticeable possibly. (none of them have said they are nor have asked them)

I dont like the path they are taking UO that's why I'm closing accounts and to be honest I'm actually happy about it. even tho its insanely boring.  

That is...stunning. I don't even know what to say to that, other than you probably should take a break if you are unhappy. I've taken them at times before my last big one when I was unhappy or bored, and UO was more enjoyable when I came back. You should not spend that kind of money on something that makes you unhappy.  You think you and the 50+ and the 90 wouldn't be noticed if you left, but you probably would - I would be surprised if UO has more than 15,000 - 20,000 paid accounts, so a drop of $20,000 from just three people would be noticed.

Don't stick with stuff that makes you unhappy, just understand that not everybody else is as pessimistic about the final outcome of NL, etc.

he's not playing on NL.. what makes him unhappy.. u know what.. I won't waste more time.. you know what he meant.. u just go elsewhere as always.

Note that history tend to repeat itself.. I would use the word realistic not pessimistic.. guess what other word I would use instead of optimisitic here?

KroDuK said:

Lokea said:

Skett said:

@ Lokea 

I spend over easily over $4000 a year on UO

Me closing down 16 account now and then another 2 or 3 in shortly after isn't going to make any difference at all, it wont even be noticeable to UO it will have ZERO impact. And I realize a complete nobody to them.  I have a friend that has over 50 account and know others that have 90 and I'm sure there are a lot of others with accounts in the same range. Now if they start closing account it might be noticeable possibly. (none of them have said they are nor have asked them)

I dont like the path they are taking UO that's why I'm closing accounts and to be honest I'm actually happy about it. even tho its insanely boring.  

That is...stunning. I don't even know what to say to that, other than you probably should take a break if you are unhappy. I've taken them at times before my last big one when I was unhappy or bored, and UO was more enjoyable when I came back. You should not spend that kind of money on something that makes you unhappy.  You think you and the 50+ and the 90 wouldn't be noticed if you left, but you probably would - I would be surprised if UO has more than 15,000 - 20,000 paid accounts, so a drop of $20,000 from just three people would be noticed.

Don't stick with stuff that makes you unhappy, just understand that not everybody else is as pessimistic about the final outcome of NL, etc.

he's not playing on NL.. what makes him unhappy.. u know what.. I won't waste more time.. you know what he meant.. u just go elsewhere as always.

Note that history tend to repeat itself.. I would use the word realistic not pessimistic.. guess what other word I would use instead of optimisitic here?

 😂 

KroDuK said:

he's not playing on NL.. what makes him unhappy.. u know what.. I won't waste more time.. you know what he meant.. u just go elsewhere as always.

Note that history tend to repeat itself.. I would use the word realistic not pessimistic.. guess what other word I would use instead of optimisitic here?

Oh, I know the type, if it wasn't NL, it would be something else that he would complain about - he's constantly trashing the devs and questioning their competence here and on Stratics, and he's been doing it for many years about things that don't have any relation to NL. His posts stand out for their overall negativity when you look through the forums. 

The majority of UO players don't care one way or another, because they are not angrily posting here or on Stratics.  As I said, I spent a lot of time looking through forum posts here and on Stratics before coming back and if you take out his posts and a handful of other posters that are trying to flood the zone with their POV, the picture is quite different. The majority of posters are talking about crafting, trade, events, information requests, etc., but there's just not that many posts in general, because, again, UO is mature, and people know where to find the answers to their questions. But because there's not that many posts these days, the negative posts stand out.

I do think it's good he recognizes that it's not healthy for his wellbeing and that he's winding down his accounts. The first few times I took breaks from UO was really weird, but I was able to scratch the itch a bit with EVE, Star Wars Galaxies, even WOW and a few others. 

You are profilling him.. I just look at what he's saying, here.. he made valid point like u did.. I just dislike those politician "strategy" certain persons using around here.


To me the stratic people were always script lovers.. they would use that unofficial forums to not get ban from official.. or illegal server users... but i'm not gonna profile someone like paiwan cuz of my own "bias"


Like here something u shouldn't ignore is one of his first message to Grim.. he went from 0 to 10k% real fast.. just wait a couple of days to argu with him.. before judging his sanity.. the way he's playing UO ain't being "healthy".. cuz let's be honest since ToL test.. this is the new game model under mesanna corporate culture.. sub as much as u can.. do as u please.. we gonna shower you.

Peronally I tried to reassure him on some of his point.. he ain't crazy but yeah.. 21 accounts? god damn.. he's a big fish, if u ask me.

PS: not long ago he wouldn't care about other botting or people using cheat engine.. I went at him for being a cheat engine lover cuz of it.. today he's at war with them.. give it time. But it doesn't change the fact both of you made valid point and ignoring those valid points.
Him he don't go in much more details on urs (ignoring) while u go somewhere totally different.. almost attacking the person he is.. cuz of stuff like he got an unhealthy amount of accounts and does not see the potential of NL.. and believe the price to pay for prodo is too high..


I'm also one of those that is never satisfied cuz perfection is an utopia that can be attained when there is nothing left to remove.. u still can make it better by adding more stuff.. but as long there is stuff to be remove.. "perfection" is impossible.. just look at my avatar picture.. stuff like that.. is killing me.. so depending on your logic my problems does not count.. cuz i would never be plainly satisfied.


PS: do like victim.. clearly making fun of us a good way.. like me.. I look like that cat (unhappy) protestng while waiting for mah pie.. and look how skett responded to that.. he also understood the meaning.

@Lokea you really like to make things up. Nothing in past even close to what you’re saying but go ahead and lie that’s all you got. And yes NL is a horrible epic fail always will be because it’s not what uo is nor is it wanted by the majority of the players. If i logged in my 21 accounts when I had them on NL I’d own it out number everyone else there bc it’s not anything the majority of players want. Thats just a fact like it or not. So try to profile me it’s really creepy you should maybe go for a long walk with your kids and relax maybe take a break from uo. Go get some pie with your rl family I’m sure they’ll love the attention.

Skett said:

Look at that variety.. a spoiled cat!
We love to see that.

Ok @Mariah or @Rorschach

I think we have proven the inability to log in has been resolved.  So we can put this question thread to sleep. 
Yes or no would have been more productive answers.

Shout out to whoever resolved it. 

On to bug fixes next 

KroDuK said:

Pawain said:

Yup the usual complainers complaining about the forum working properly.  Shocking.

This is the thing you spoken too fast, some of us are more realistic.. still some bugs.. Like the one I just experienced.. I enter the password.. before pressing enter I hit another button (adding a character to my password) I was like oups... but weirdly enough I was logged in and when I press on the wheel (virtue star) I had permission..

But I couldn't post.. so yeah.. bug still happening.. I logged in my forum account with an extra character added at the last second.. but I was not able to post.. in short.. I was able to connect (not really) with the wrong password.. before it would tell me no perm by pressing "setting" now I couldn't post and it never told me I had NO PERM like it used to before.. if I had not experienced the 80-90 attempt to connect on the forum.. I would have never guessed why i was not able to post on the forum (no perm)

Pawain said:

Yes or no would have been more productive answers.

I believe my answer was more productive than a yes or no answer.. if I answer no you are asking me why.. so I can explain you the "bug"

Pawain said:

I think we have proven the inability to log in has been resolved. 

PS: if someone is not able to connect on the forum.. are u really expecting a no answer from them? 

Just use Firefox 

no 

For some it’s like being forced to … nvm 

Maybe u'd have more success if it was a threat:"JUST USE FireFox!"

Are you carrying?

  

a Yes or No answer would be more productive.

ok i'm out!

Yes

Skett said:

@ Lokea you really like to make things up. Nothing in past even close to what you’re saying but go ahead and lie that’s all you got. 

When I was going through the Stratics and UO.com forums, I got to where I could recognize your posts without seeing your handle or avatar because of the negativity. You've been bitter about UO for a while.

The thing is, on the one hand, I get it, you were paying for 21 accounts.  That's thousands of dollars a year sunk into something and you had certain expectations.  It was a sunk-cost fallacy for you. Arguably it would be the textbook definition of a sunk-cost fallacy. 

On the other hand, UO didn't change overnight. Messana or Kyronix didn't snap their fingers a year or two or five years ago and overnight UO became something vastly different than what it was.  You didn't login one day after server up and all of the sudden there's new and unannounced rules that change the playstyles on multiple characters, or something you relied on had been gimped. It's been what it has been for many years, and adding a couple of new shards with their own rulesets really didn't change the way production players play.  

And while you constantly claim that the majority of UO players hate NL, I don't see the majority of UO players logging into the UO or Stratics forums and claiming they hate NL, and they are obviously not canceling their accounts (otherwise NL gets dropped like a hot potato). In fact, the majority of UO players don't even bother with the UO.com or Stratics forums. Most probably don't even login all that often to begin with.

I don't know when you became so down on UO and down on the devs, but for better or for worse, you really, really stand out on Stratics and UO.com as somebody who no longer likes UO and wants everybody to know it.

I don't say this to be snarky - I'm very sincere about it, but shutting down most of your accounts and walking away from UO and the forums will probably improve your life a great deal in a lot of ways. I'm also being very serious when I say this - having played a lot of MMOs over the last 25 years, if you want to stay within the MMO genre of gaming, I'd be happy to recommend some to you if you aren't familiar with other MMOs, and possibly even some guilds that can help you out.

Pawain said:

Ok @ Mariah or @ Rorschach

I think we have proven the inability to log in has been resolved.  So we can put this question thread to sleep. 
Yes or no would have been more productive answers.

Shout out to whoever resolved it. 

@Pawain your wish is granted.

Mariah said:

Pawain said:

Ok @ Mariah or @ Rorschach

I think we have proven the inability to log in has been resolved.  So we can put this question thread to sleep. 
Yes or no would have been more productive answers.

Shout out to whoever resolved it. 

@ Pawain your wish is granted.