EC vs CC running/cornering speed

Are they going to make the running/cornering speeds in the EC match those of CC? I'm not saying that they should remove the auto navigate, i'm sure it's possible to auto navigate at the speed of the CC client.

When you play CC and you watch someone run in a circle on EC, they skip around the screen, Can't even pull their bar to target them.

This game is garbage that you have one client faster than the other. Why do none of the devs talk about it? and why does nobody even mention it in the meet and greets?

My biggest complaint currently; features lacking in CC + UO Assist v EC is one thing, but the disparity in speed is a HUGE deal.  

Part of difference in the way movement is handled in EC v CC, I think, also contributes to the issue that where the CC user sees the EC user is usually not the tile he’s actually on.  

I'm really glad this is getting talked about. One solution I'm sure is being discussed or has been discussed for years is just killing one of the clients. That must make development easier and fix all kinds of other problems.

What other games have 2 clients anyway with different graphics and interfaces? It must be ridiculous to maintain both.

What do you think it would take for people to feel good about getting rid of one of the clients?

I have no idea how many people use what client. Maybe 90% of the game uses EC now and only a few pvpers use CC now--no idea.

Leave running and cornering as is. 

general consensus is its around 60%Classic 40%EC.

I dont know of anyone who plays EC for the graphics, most play for the UI / functionality.  and i dont think many CC users would complain about more functionality and a cleaned up UI. (im sure there are some players that would complain about both)

In an ideal world, i think the the classic graphics, but in hi-res with a modern UI and functionality would have made the most players happy, but at the time EA's reasoning was to try to compete with the graphics of the other games.  which was an absolute failure.  EC graphics were oudated even when released, ten years ago.  And the CC graphics are held back by having to function in EC as well.

ECs differences in the macro system are essential a built in lua script program, which gives CC users the "excuse" that its ok to use third party programs to script.  Same with the EC functionality.  Theres such big differences that third party "cheat" programs are accepted by many because many of those features are in the Enhanced client already. 

Its a bad situation all around.  i cant see the resources existing now to finalize 1 client, but always room for hope.  i didnt think UO would even be around this long so who knows what the future holds for the game.

Delete EC.

I'm learning it, to play a pvp dexxer, and it's still pretty horrendous. It has no soul. It has no art. It has no skill.

Most people I know who play it, think it's horrible, and should be deleted also. They play it because they are forced to.

Delete EC, improve some CC functionality.

You'd lose 20% of the playerbase, and gain 1,000,000,000%. Fair trade.

Don't touch the EC!

It is a horribly idea to drag down the only halfway modern and usable client down to the level of a 20 year old programm with terrible UI!

Cookie said:

Delete EC.

I'm learning it, to play a pvp dexxer, and it's still pretty horrendous. It has no soul. It has no art. It has no skill.

Most people I know who play it, think it's horrible, and should be deleted also. They play it because they are forced to.

Delete EC, improve some CC functionality.

You'd lose 20% of the playerbase, and gain 1,000,000,000%. Fair trade.

Curious, who "Forces" them to play it? 

PapaSmurf said:

Cookie said:

Delete EC.

I'm learning it, to play a pvp dexxer, and it's still pretty horrendous. It has no soul. It has no art. It has no skill.

Most people I know who play it, think it's horrible, and should be deleted also. They play it because they are forced to.

Delete EC, improve some CC functionality.

You'd lose 20% of the playerbase, and gain 1,000,000,000%. Fair trade.

Curious, who "Forces" them to play it? 

Hiya,

The speed differential in abilities, the cornering differential, all of the added bonus functionality in EC sort of force players to use EC if they want to be competitive - and of course, the whole point of pvp is to be competitive. So we are in a situation many players are forced to use EC, even though they hate it, because they need the speed. The other option is to quit pvp, which I'm seriously considering now, but this is a shame, as UO is renowned for it's fast paced fun pvp In CC - it's the whole reason many of us play, or have such fond memories.

Even in pvm EC has functionality that Sampires who solo all game content require, you wouldn't try the stuff they do in CC. (usually).

The constant conflict between EC v CC is driving players away from the game.

Delete EC, as I said, we would lose 20% of the playerbase, and probably gain 200% at least.

I did also say, some more functionality needs to be added into CC, so people who like the functionality of EC would not lose out, and we would all gain.

But CC has nostalgia retro graphics, which is very on trend at the moment.

Old players want to come back for CC,  not EC, they wont come back for EC.

New players want the original - not EC - games these days, are deliberately designed with old graphics quite often, to get that "feel". It is accepted that if you put all your focus into graphics, you don't get content, and players want content. Otherwise the game   only lasts 5 minutes.

EC is halfway modern - but this in itself is a failure, it is only halfway modern, either go full modern, or go back to the original - don't get stuck in the middle, it's the worst of both worlds. Sometimes, old is better. The only people stuck in EC are those who came somewhere in the middle, and bought into this flop - or a bunch of speed junkies who have no sense of taste, soul or style.

Bite the bullet, make bold brave decisions, you will be respected and rewarded for it.

Delete EC.

Mervyn said:

Are they going to make the running/cornering speeds in the EC match those of CC? I'm not saying that they should remove the auto navigate, i'm sure it's possible to auto navigate at the speed of the CC client.

When you play CC and you watch someone run in a circle on EC, they skip around the screen, Can't even pull their bar to target them.

This game is garbage that you have one client faster than the other. Why do none of the devs talk about it? and why does nobody even mention it in the meet and greets?

You should give the EC a try, it also pulls the healthbar for you 

Cookie said:

Delete EC.

I'm learning it, to play a pvp dexxer, and it's still pretty horrendous. It has no soul. It has no art. It has no skill.

Most people I know who play it, think it's horrible, and should be deleted also. They play it because they are forced to.

Delete EC, improve some CC functionality.

You'd lose 20% of the playerbase, and gain 1,000,000,000%. Fair trade.

Actually I'm thinking that if EJ brings back enough players, there's a slight chance the CC will get dropped since the revenue from EJ might make up for the loss of revenue in CC players that have threatened to quit if it's ever dropped.

 Garth_Grey said:

Actually I'm thinking that if EJ brings back enough players, there's a slight chance the CC will get dropped since the revenue from EJ might make up for the loss of revenue in CC players that have threatened to quit if it's ever dropped.

Please don't tell me you use EC?

You've seemed like a really sensible guy up until that moment!

Everyone has a bad fashion moment I guess...

Anyways, I know people can have completely opposite viewpoints, and that's how it is.

I am 100% certain I am right though in my logic.

Smoot said:

In an ideal world, i think the the classic graphics, but in hi-res with a modern UI and functionality would have made the most players happy

Yep, I don't know why they don't just put the CC graphics inside the EC UI. I think from memory Mervyn made a rough mock up of something like this before on the "other" forum.

The graphics are terrible in BOTH clients to today's standards so the whole fight about this is moot. People complain they get motion sickness from the EC?? Maybe they need an eye test. I'm sure people get eye strain from everything in the CC being so small...

Then there is the whole nostalgia thing. Who cares? Move with the times. You don't see people driving around in old cars unless they are going on a car rally or something. People drive new cars because of the FEATURES they offer. The features in the EC outweigh the CC by miles.

Maybe the fact that people seem to be faster in the EC is one of the features it offers? We would have to wait and see what one of the developers says about this.

Just to get my vote in 

I don't play pvp (I don't enjoy pvp so why should I play that small portion of the game other then to provide a victim for someone)

One of the reasons I play UO and not one of the others is "the look" comes way behind content
If looks mater that much I'd be playing some other game or surfing the photo sites
So please don't base CC v EC fights on the look. They have better places to spend the $ and time on.

PS have they ever said what percentage play PvP or PvM

I’ll keep this simple.

Pull the plug on CC.

EC in 4K is faster, p̶r̶e̶t̶t̶i̶e̶r̶ fluid, and easier to use.

Do you want to fly a paper airplane or fly an F-16?

Thank you.  That is all.

Garth_Grey said:

Cookie said:

Delete EC.

I'm learning it, to play a pvp dexxer, and it's still pretty horrendous. It has no soul. It has no art. It has no skill.

Most people I know who play it, think it's horrible, and should be deleted also. They play it because they are forced to.

Delete EC, improve some CC functionality.

You'd lose 20% of the playerbase, and gain 1,000,000,000%. Fair trade.

Actually I'm thinking that if EJ brings back enough players, there's a slight chance the CC will get dropped since the revenue from EJ might make up for the loss of revenue in CC players that have threatened to quit if it's ever dropped.

EJ is F2P so where are you getting all this REVENUE from.  Please tell us what all is going to be sold and what the prices are.  While you are at it could you also tell us all the restrictions EJ will/will not have.

Bilbo said:

Garth_Grey said:

Cookie said:

Delete EC.

I'm learning it, to play a pvp dexxer, and it's still pretty horrendous. It has no soul. It has no art. It has no skill.

Most people I know who play it, think it's horrible, and should be deleted also. They play it because they are forced to.

Delete EC, improve some CC functionality.

You'd lose 20% of the playerbase, and gain 1,000,000,000%. Fair trade.

Actually I'm thinking that if EJ brings back enough players, there's a slight chance the CC will get dropped since the revenue from EJ might make up for the loss of revenue in CC players that have threatened to quit if it's ever dropped.

EJ is F2P so where are you getting all this REVENUE from.  Please tell us what all is going to be sold and what the prices are.  While you are at it could you also tell us all the restrictions EJ will/will not have.

Lol.  Speculations and salt shaker caps.

SwordofExcalibur said:

Bilbo said:

Garth_Grey said:

Cookie said:

Delete EC.

I'm learning it, to play a pvp dexxer, and it's still pretty horrendous. It has no soul. It has no art. It has no skill.

Most people I know who play it, think it's horrible, and should be deleted also. They play it because they are forced to.

Delete EC, improve some CC functionality.

You'd lose 20% of the playerbase, and gain 1,000,000,000%. Fair trade.

Actually I'm thinking that if EJ brings back enough players, there's a slight chance the CC will get dropped since the revenue from EJ might make up for the loss of revenue in CC players that have threatened to quit if it's ever dropped.

EJ is F2P so where are you getting all this REVENUE from.  Please tell us what all is going to be sold and what the prices are.  While you are at it could you also tell us all the restrictions EJ will/will not have.

Lol.  Speculations and salt shaker caps.

LMFAO  You owe me a keyboard and a cup of coffee, but thanks for the good laugh.

I asked a rocket scientist and he stated the only solution is to have both clients the same speed. he also stated having one client faster then the other would be a way to get people to quit and could justify going to just one client. this isn't rocket science people, make clients same speed. 

UO is the grandpappy of MMOs. They were inventing code. More efficient ways of writing code, and better tools to do so, have been invented since then, but it's very difficult to go back and unravel the CC code to improve it. So they made a far better client... but the first few renditions had massive issues and a huge chunk of the player base were traumatized. Many started their MMO life with UO and have never even seen a modern client. They like their UOA and UOAM and let's face it, a lot of folks secretly like other 3rd party programs they will not confess to. The only reason those programs work is because the newly invented code for UO was not perfect. It was hacked, and has been impossible to secure ever since.

EC has its flaws, but almost all EC settings can be made legacy. Containers, the Paperdoll, targeting, chat. Everything in fact, except some artwork. Do THAT many people really play UO because of its art? Is the ART really worth the trouble of maintaining two clients?

It would make me sad to see my gorgeous Cu walking like she has wooden legs, but I could deal with it if it meant putting an end to this constant squabble over clients. Make all EC art in the CC style. Make all new EC user settings default as CC and folks can adjust upwards to what is comfortable to them. Add the CC's impossible to read journal for folks who like it. EC can incorporate everything that CC can for the nostalgic folks - except the cheats. EC is capable of having ALL that CC has, but still offer the benefits of a modern user interface. Everyone can be happy this way... except scripters.

And then do what needs to be done to bring Ultima Online into the 21st century.

I agree that the speed advantage in EC is a big issue.  This problem should have been addressed a long time ago. 

It is clearly not supposed to be a feature that you can effectively run faster in EC than CC, in fact, people denied that you could when the EC first came out, before someone discovered it was the cornering code that was the issue. 

I believe the solution is to either remove the auto navigate around obstacles feature in the EC or add that feature to the CC. The cornering should work the same way in both clients. The Devs supposedly capped the movement speed to promote fairness of play. So it would only make sense to address the cornering issue as well.  

Just weighing in on CC vs EC. Came back after 10 years fully prepared to play CC as it was all I knew. I absolutely cannot see anything using it, on my monitor players rate tiny specs as is everything else. I like the ability to zoom in a bit on EC, otherwise I would be unable to play at all. 

How are you all dealing with the tiny tiny graphics in CC?

Pull the plug to CC and update the graphic of EC at least to KR standard.
My 2 GPs.
I.

And just to add some gas to the fire
Is there any other game out there that tries to maintain 2 clients?
If I were running UO at the time it would have been "This is the new client enjoy and let us know what you would like added to it".
Just think of all the resources and time that would have been available for other things rather then trying to keep two sets of player happy. 

LOL Hear we go again with the CCvEC BS.  Mesanna has already that there are 2 things that will NEVER happen. Shard Mergers and closing the CC so get over it.  The EC UI is much better that the CC UI but the EC has the ugggggliest graphics there is.  Closing either client will kill UO.  LONG LIVE THE CC

I don't really care what client you use or if you cheat  to "win" a game that has no end.

My point was really the same as yours.
Due to past history we are in a world of 2 clients competing for resources so quit complaining and accept that everything can't be fixed.

PS My dream is to win the lottery and ask Mesanna  how much to rewrite the core code and a new modern client with the best of both with a Mac client. Really we can't drag and select in this day and age?

Nobody is asking to kill any clients. We just want the movement to be the same way, so it is fair in pvp.

cobb said:

Nobody is asking to kill any clients. We just want the movement to be the same way, so it is fair in pvp.

Ivenor said:

Pull the plug to CC and update the graphic of EC at least to KR standard.
My 2 GPs.
I.

Tim said:

And just to add some gas to the fire
Is there any other game out there that tries to maintain 2 clients?
If I were running UO at the time it would have been "This is the new client enjoy and let us know what you would like added to it".
Just think of all the resources and time that would have been available for other things rather then trying to keep two sets of player happy. 

Really  Didn't take long for it to happen.

It was stated in the latest newsletter that they are planning on adding some new features to the CC. So it would be a good time to add the auto navigation around obstacles feature.

cobb said:

It was stated in the latest newsletter that they are planning on adding some new features to the CC. So it would be a good time to add the auto navigation around obstacles feature.

 🙂 

Or they could just fix EC so it stops one frame when cornering? So it doesn’t look like they’re speedhacking and skipping all over the screen.
this is why people in EC can’t face in different directions without their char moving a tile. 

EC should be canned, and CC should be upgraded. Just make sure to add quality of life features from EC to CC, to keep the EC players happy. 

EC forces CC users to cheat just to keep up with EC.  EC is overpowered.  Nerf it. 

Sorry I use CC and I am not forced to cheat

Dragonheart said:

EC forces CC users to cheat just to keep up with EC.  EC is overpowered.  Nerf it. 

Are you joking, right? Othewise your logic is the same as saying "a partner in a couple is a moron, so lets "moronize" the other one to restore the "balance""...

InLor said:

EC should be canned, and CC should be upgraded. Just make sure to add quality of life features from EC to CC, to keep the EC players happy. 

Your opinion. Someone may differs, and say that only cheater and scripter are morbidly attached to the CC...

Do you pay your subs, then use any client you want to just as long as you play UO.  UO  has already stated that they will support BOTH clients so all this BS to scrap one client over the other is crap.  I use the EC for sorting and arranging stuff in containers but, and this is me I can not stand the graphics esp what they did to all my pets and I sure as hell will not ride a stink bug, give me a break.  Give me the EC UI with the CC Graphics and I would give it an honest try until then I will use what is pleasing to my eyes. 

Bilbo said:

Do you pay your subs, then use any client you want to just as long as you play UO.  (...)

Amen. 🙂

Mervyn said:

Or they could just fix EC so it stops one frame when cornering? So it doesn’t look like they’re speedhacking and skipping all over the screen.
this is why people in EC can’t face in different directions without their char moving a tile. 

That would definitely work.  I do not believe it would be difficult to implement this. Also I'm sure EC users would also appreciate this change as it would allow them to change directions without moving.

Some of them will still find something to cry about, even if it's something such as this.

the people cheating, are going to be cheating regardless if the clients were perfectly balanced or not, because they're not being punished for it.

@CovenantX

Legitimately this is a problem, I've just witnessed this for myself tonight and its so FREAKING lame for real watching this guy skip around the screen and claim hes a better PvP'er cause hes cornering and using a speeder possibly. its like wtf thank you @Mervyn for saying something because this has got to stop for the fairness of the game

I love the "make EC slower like CC" argument. Not "Sort out CC so it isn't slow and clunky". Its the same with some of the things you get stuck on in CC are not even in EC and why not put the move around objects in CC instead of taking it away from EC users. EC has been out a long enough time for people to get over the grudge but the CC needs to be improved to the same standard. I`m amazed they got away with having 2 clients that have so many different features, surely if you are making a new client for a graphical update then the key features that make the game fair or unfair should be the same so we are all playing the same game.

I only play with EH. One day my daughter asked me to bake a (real) cake, and  when I left the room she hijacked my character, sailing my fisherman-cook off in a random direction, disembarking and abandoning my boat, and sent him running through the woods punching bears. From the kitchen I could hear her howls: "My gawd, the graphics! Soooo state-of-the-art" and " Why does he run faster going diagonally?? WHYYYY??" I returned just as she was testing mailboxes by trying to stuff my Chivalry book into one at some random house she had found in the woods. 

So a neutral (if very sarcastic) observer has noted the weird diagonal speed of EH. 

Well, 20 years after I started playing UO, I'm a game dev now myself.  (On another game, obviously.) 

It's funny, we're currently having the same discussion with our MMO. 

It would massively streamline development if we could kill our classic client, but the new client isn't quite at the same level of functionality yet.  As a dev I want to make the new client *better* than the old one so that people will *want* to switch, but I know from my own experience with UO that is easier said than done.  🙂

Personally I never played the EC client and never will.  🙂

Well it's not exactly rocket science, that you should not be able to effectively run faster in one client than the other.

Plus you're able to cast faster but only if you set it to auto cast self/last.

Example of skipping around effect observed from 2d client.
https://sendvid.com/a3x6suze

Best thing would be to have CC graphics on EC. Problem solved. Not sure if it is possible though. Basically everyone plays the same game, same client, with different graphics.

There is also a compatibility issue with playing CC vs EC. UOAssist has a “range check last target” option. However this doesn’t work vs players using EC, as by the time the range check is performed on CC and a positive result given, the EC players have moved offscreen already and you still lose the spell target cursor and receive the system message “target cannot be seen”

they fix nothing, its worst .now in ec you get hit by dexxer from two tile aways  or get foot by guys with a no-dachi from 5 tiles aways. really a great fix ....

ezikel said:

they fix nothing, its worst .now in ec you get hit by dexxer from two tile aways  or get foot by guys with a no-dachi from 5 tiles aways. really a great fix ....

As soon they would implement the CC art into EC i would just quit.
Most of the old ultra-outdated textures of CC are just ugly.

Heck i even prefered the UO:KR graphics way back then, but again, CC users complained so the UO:KR client got ditched, it looked really great imo.

And for the sharpiness of the EC client btw., well, what do people expect? You can zoom in, so of course it gets more ugly/unsharp the more you zoom in, textures are just textures, the more you zoom in the more ugly textures get. If you would implement zooming into CC you would have the same issues. 

As for speed, just use EC?!

IMO the CC client is just laggy as hell and the wierd stuttering while walking/running is just ugly.
EC outperforms the CC by far and it will be always like that, you can't magically improve the CC to EC standards when it comes to speed, you will never reach that goal with the super ultra mega outdated Classic Client code/engine.

A lot of dev time is wasted maintaining two clients, but i have said that like 10 years ago already.

Sadly, the usage of clients is prolly something like 50% CC / 50% EC, atleast the last poll i am aware of had such numbers. Ofc. Broadsword surely has more accurate numbers.

So that means ditching 1 client be it CC or EC would be a very risky step...

Himmelweiss said:

Heck i even prefered the UO:KR graphics way back then, but again, CC users complained so the UO:KR client got ditched, it looked really great imo.

I also liked the Kingdom Reborn graphics. But CC users complaining made the KR client get ditched is absolutely false. It was an extra client following the old 3d client. It wouldnt have affected the classic client users and got canceled, because it was completely bugged.

I think I tried KR once and when I loaded the game I couldn't even talk, things didn't appear, game was pretty much unplayable. That might have actually been the Enhanced Client when it first came out? But I have given EC a fair shake I just can't stand looking at it. Just ugh. Even playing the game doesn't feel like UO, but like some old school dinosaur hunting simulator or something where everyone looks like they are actually skeletons in a robe zipping around on ugly dinosaurs looking for.. uglier dinosaurs. Everything is jerky, looks terrible and just seems devoid of soul and character. Hideousness on a scale I cannot adequately describe. If CC was canceled for whatever reason and I had to use EC, I'd unsub the very moment I found out about it and never play this game again. Ever.

I have zero interest in playing Ultima Online at sub 120 FPS ever again. Watching the Classic Client now gives me a massive migraine. 

What they need to do is add an option into the EC called “Classic Client Mode,” that’s a simple check box that turns all of the silly little sprites, doodads, graphs, graphics, and menus back to 1997 for the CC users, while enabling all of the current EC functionality. After that, drag the Classic Client to the trash bin and drop it there. 

Thats a win-win for everyone.