KYRONIX, please, tone down Mana requirement for Taming "As One"

They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

Do you have 30 MR?
What is your meditation skill?
What are your Mastery skills?

Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.

Pawain said:

They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

Do you have 30 MR?
What is your meditation skill?
What are your Mastery skills?

Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing skill rings.

https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.

I've kept a party of 7 alive in the fountain with bard songs as one ain't nothing 

I have to disagree with this, Popps.  The cost of as one is fine.  There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  

Taming template is 240 to 360 skill points, taming, lore, vet.  That leaves you with 360-480 skill points to use (not including +skill gear) 

You want it all with no sacrifices. Make friends with a bard.

Where have you tried to use pack animals where as one hasn't been sufficient?

Violet said:

I have to disagree with this, Popps.  The cost of as one is fine.  There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  

Taming template is 240 to 360 skill points, taming, lore, vet.  That leaves you with 360-480 skill points to use (not including +skill gear) 

You want it all with no sacrifices. Make friends with a bard.

Where have you tried to use pack animals where as one hasn't been sufficient?

Well, pack instinct pets are already a nightmare enough to deal with for a Tamer (walking them in and out of hunting locations with the spawn continuously aggroing each and every pet in the group just one example that comes to mind), their use is very limited sufficiently as you and other experienced Tamers point out, since they are very weak to AoE damage (a bug ? intended ?) which makes them not usable in hunting scenarios where the target frequently uses AoE damage that wrecks the pack instinct pets, as well as in hunting locations where there is too much spawn to be able to effectively control a pack of pets... making their use further limited because As One demands too much mana, to my opinion, further reduces the already very limited uses for pact instinct pets.

popps said:

Violet said:

I have to disagree with this, Popps.  The cost of as one is fine.  There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  

Taming template is 240 to 360 skill points, taming, lore, vet.  That leaves you with 360-480 skill points to use (not including +skill gear) 

You want it all with no sacrifices. Make friends with a bard.

Where have you tried to use pack animals where as one hasn't been sufficient?

Well, pack instinct pets are already a nightmare enough to deal with for a Tamer (walking them in and out of hunting locations with the spawn continuously aggroing each and every pet in the group just one example that comes to mind), their use is very limited sufficiently as you and other experienced Tamers point out, since they are very weak to AoE damage (a bug ? intended ?) which makes them not usable in hunting scenarios where the target frequently uses AoE damage that wrecks the pack instinct pets, as well as in hunting locations where there is too much spawn to be able to effectively control a pack of pets... making their use further limited because As One demands too much mana, to my opinion, further reduces the already very limited uses for pact instinct pets.

What is the point of having pets which can hardly be used once in a blue moon and just take up Stables space, I wonder ?

Wouldn't it be better to make their usability more possible, so that UO Tamers can use them with more spawns rather then too few ?

Using a Bard as others suggested might help but, I see it more of a work around and it also needs another player or a secondary account while I am of the opinion that a Tamer should be able to have a sufficient number of hunting grounds to be able to use pack instinct pets at on his/her own and have fun with them, without needing to have to use a Bard on another account in order to then be able to use pact instinct pets...

Just leave them in your stables till you understand where to use them correctly.i really have no idea why your even trying or if your even trying and just starting a debate that you never listen to your replies and then move to another random topic...

How long have masteries been in game Popps?

So you have just started using them and you don't like them and want them changed?

TOUGH SHIT

clearly you have no idea about anything in game, as per usual

No, they will not be changed to accommodate you

Get over yourself

Once again I don't want any chance of MY gameplay affected by your stupidity 

Stop posting Kleenex inducing self indulgent fiddle bait and go play on your PC, ideally another game, you clearly are 100% shit at this one

Such a nightmare to take them out of the stable.

Like you have taken them out.  😂. Sounds like you have never taken a non mount out of your stable.

JackFlashUk said:

How long have masteries been in game Popps?

So you have just started using them and you don't like them and want them changed?

TOUGH SHIT

clearly you have no idea about anything in game, as per usual

No, they will not be changed to accommodate you

Get over yourself

Once again I don't want any chance of MY gameplay affected by your stupidity 

Stop posting Kleenex inducing self indulgent fiddle bait and go play on your PC, ideally another game, you clearly are 100% shit at this one

@popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

You also did not answer.

What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?

Pawain said:

@ popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

You also did not answer.

What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?

And lmc 

And it cost exactly the same as consume damage and you've never complained about it..

Pawain said:

@ popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

You also did not answer.

What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?

As I mentioned in the OP, "Apparently, as of now, to run As One a Tamer would need about 3.6 mana per second which would take, roughly, 120 Med, 115 Focus (quite a lot of skill points to have to squeeze into a Taming Template) 150 Int and 30 MR and this, just to run As One, forget about Greater Heals on pets or casting other spells..."

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

How long have masteries been in game Popps?

So you have just started using them and you don't like them and want them changed?

TOUGH SHIT

clearly you have no idea about anything in game, as per usual

No, they will not be changed to accommodate you

Get over yourself

Once again I don't want any chance of MY gameplay affected by your stupidity 

Stop posting Kleenex inducing self indulgent fiddle bait and go play on your PC, ideally another game, you clearly are 100% shit at this one

The Taming "As One" is only 1 Mastery among many and, particularly specific when using pack instinct pets.

I use Masteries all the time, plenty of them. That said, "As One" I think is way, but way too much mana requiring to the point that we see UO players often having to use a Bard in order to play a Tamer with pack instinct pets.

Sorry if I happen to think that it makes no sense to me that, in order to play a Tamer with pack instinct, one has to have a Bard also, just because the Taming "As One" Mastery which supposedly should permit to UO Tamers to hunt with pack instinct pets, requires, as it is, way too much mana...

you are one player

you do not speak for others, so stop asking for changes that suit you

if you cant maintain the mana then think how YOU can sort it out

there are no cheat modes for you

The Dev's will not change things just for you

if you cant make it work thats your failing isn't it

The pets are crap anyway

Grimbeard said:

Pawain said:

@ popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

You also did not answer.

What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?

And lmc 

The above is at 40% LMC CAP.

Grimbeard said:

And it cost exactly the same as consume damage and you've never complained about it..

popps said:

Because, to my opinion, consume damage is not as crucial as The One is, with pack instinct (weak) pets.

then YOU have to sort out YOUR problem

it is totally unreasonable of you to expect the Devs to change how the game has been running for YEARS just because you are crap at it or want 5 crappy pets

You are the most selfish player I have ever come across in the game

I assume everyone in game just ignores you and you feel this is your personal agony line or self pleasure debate tool

Just play the game or leave Popps

Nobody cares about your drama and we certainly do NOT want the game we have been playing for years to be abused because you just don't cut it


How come you have never had this issues before? pack hunting has been a thing way before these dumb pets arrived

just stable them like everyone else or release them, like I said they are crap anyway

Go tame a blaze cu if you have so much time on your hands and have a good moan that one did not crack out after 5 mins of trying to get one

Better still go on test and work out the new champ spawn and let us all know how to do it when its live, Oh wait, no, you don't do anything for others, I cant wait for you to start crying about that when you don't get drops every time

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

Because, to my opinion, consume damage is not as crucial as The One is, with pack instinct (weak) pets.

then YOU have to sort out YOUR problem

it is totally unreasonable of you to expect the Devs to change how the game has been running for YEARS just because you are crap at it or want 5 crappy pets

You are the most selfish player I have ever come across in the game

I assume everyone in game just ignores you and you feel this is your personal agony line or self pleasure debate tool

Just play the game or leave Popps

Nobody cares about your drama and we certainly do NOT want the game we have been playing for years to be abused because you just don't cut it


How come you have never had this issues before? pack hunting has been a thing way before these dumb pets arrived

just stable them like everyone else or release them, like I said they are crap anyway

Go tame a blaze cu if you have so much time on your hands and have a good moan that one did not crack out after 5 mins of trying to get one

Better still go on test and work out the new champ spawn and let us all know how to do it when its live, Oh wait, no, you don't do anything for others, I cant wait for you to start crying about that when you don't get drops every time

popps said:

JackFlashUk said:

popps said:

Because, to my opinion, consume damage is not as crucial as The One is, with pack instinct (weak) pets.

then YOU have to sort out YOUR problem

it is totally unreasonable of you to expect the Devs to change how the game has been running for YEARS just because you are crap at it or want 5 crappy pets

You are the most selfish player I have ever come across in the game

I assume everyone in game just ignores you and you feel this is your personal agony line or self pleasure debate tool

Just play the game or leave Popps

Nobody cares about your drama and we certainly do NOT want the game we have been playing for years to be abused because you just don't cut it


How come you have never had this issues before? pack hunting has been a thing way before these dumb pets arrived

just stable them like everyone else or release them, like I said they are crap anyway

Go tame a blaze cu if you have so much time on your hands and have a good moan that one did not crack out after 5 mins of trying to get one

Better still go on test and work out the new champ spawn and let us all know how to do it when its live, Oh wait, no, you don't do anything for others, I cant wait for you to start crying about that when you don't get drops every time

To sort the problem, I would need to get a Bard as other players do to handle pack instinct pets because too much mana is needed to have a Taming Mastery work for taming ?

No thanks, I'd rather have the shortcoming be fixed rather then have to use a work around in order to be able to use pack instinct pets when playing a tamer.

Or, just give up using pack instinct pets...

Yet, I do not understand why things have to be the way that they are, period, and not, instead, be improved and made better to enhance the gameplay enjoyment of players.

Why should a UO player who wants to play a Tamer and wants to use pack instinct pets have to use a Bard just because, who knows why, the mana requirement for The One was set as being too high as it now is ?

The way I see it, players should be free to use a Bard alongside with a Tamer if they wish so but not because they "have to" if they want to use pack instinct pets because the mana consumption of the very necssary The One Taming Mastery has been set as too high.

You can choose to use them or not...

In a sense I get popps question.
He is asking it in terms of taming, I've often asked it in many other areas.
Whilst taming, pack animals, has zero interest to me, I get his point.
Sometimes it feels like in UO, to make 1 step forwards, people feel as if we need to take an equal step backwards somewhere, to maintain some fictional line in the sand "balance".
I often find this quite annoying myself.
Quite often, an area of the game then becomes this overly complicated layer on layer, such as crafting, which has now almost become pointless - when Underworld, Stygian Abyss, and Imbuing were amongst some of the best game design ever.
But reforging.... That took it to an insane level.
Taming is in danger of going there, a few elite, who really know their thing, taking it to a place no-one can understand what the heck is going on.

I'm going to rephrase the question a bit for him, and it's one I ask a lot in so many areas.
Why can't we just have it more simple, what is the problem with a bit of quality of life in the game, making it a bit easier? (and therefore more playable/fun for the average person).

Why do I have to repair my armour, once every single day, along with so many small areas of time wasting functionality, when I just want to play, etc.

@Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
Why?

The risk of taking something so far down the complicated road, is no-one can follow.
It happened in pvp, and in crafting.

Pawain said:

They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

Do you have 30 MR?
What is your meditation skill?
What are your Mastery skills?

Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.

And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. 🙂

Cookie said:

Pawain said:

They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

Do you have 30 MR?
What is your meditation skill?
What are your Mastery skills?

Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.

And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. 🙂

The point is that running as one no different than using consume damage popps is creating an issue where none exists it just takes practice he wants to take his new pack out and kill end game monsters I'd suggest starting out with mid range creatures learn how your pack works then take it out to real world...

Grimbeard said:

Cookie said:

Pawain said:

They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

Do you have 30 MR?
What is your meditation skill?
What are your Mastery skills?

Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.

And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. 🙂

The point is that running as one no different than using consume damage popps is creating an issue where none exists it just takes practice he wants to take his new pack out and kill end game monsters I'd suggest starting out with mid range creatures learn how your pack works then take it out to real world...

I'll take your word for it, but if popps is having those sort of issues with tamers, and pets, you should see me.

Cookie said:

Grimbeard said:

Cookie said:

Pawain said:

They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

Do you have 30 MR?
What is your meditation skill?
What are your Mastery skills?

Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.

And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. 🙂

The point is that running as one no different than using consume damage popps is creating an issue where none exists it just takes practice he wants to take his new pack out and kill end game monsters I'd suggest starting out with mid range creatures learn how your pack works then take it out to real world...

I'll take your word for it, but if popps is having those sort of issues with tamers, and pets, you should see me.

When you start playing  a sampire you have to learn timing etc correct? 

Grimbeard said:

When you start playing  a sampire you have to learn timing etc correct? 

I would not be seen dead on a sampire. 🙂


{and in terms of pvp or crafting, I would probably have to admit, it has gone further than most people can handle}.

Cookie said:

Grimbeard said:

When you start playing  a sampire you have to learn timing etc correct? 

I would not be seen dead on a sampire. 🙂


{and in terms of pvp or crafting, I would probably have to admit, it has gone further than most people can handle}.

Ok when you first started pvping was  it hard?   did you get better with practice?  This no different 

Cookie said:

In a sense I get popps question.
He is asking it in terms of taming, I've often asked it in many other areas.
Whilst taming, pack animals, has zero interest to me, I get his point.
Sometimes it feels like in UO, to make 1 step forwards, people feel as if we need to take an equal step backwards somewhere, to maintain some fictional line in the sand "balance".
I often find this quite annoying myself.
Quite often, an area of the game then becomes this overly complicated layer on layer, such as crafting, which has now almost become pointless - when Underworld, Stygian Abyss, and Imbuing were amongst some of the best game design ever.
But reforging.... That took it to an insane level.
Taming is in danger of going there, a few elite, who really know their thing, taking it to a place no-one can understand what the heck is going on.

I'm going to rephrase the question a bit for him, and it's one I ask a lot in so many areas.
Why can't we just have it more simple, what is the problem with a bit of quality of life in the game, making it a bit easier? (and therefore more playable/fun for the average person).

Why do I have to repair my armour, once every single day, along with so many small areas of time wasting functionality, when I just want to play, etc.

@ Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
Why?

The risk of taking something so far down the complicated road, is no-one can follow.
It happened in pvp, and in crafting.

The hounds melted the gates with MoE.  Was an under appreciated gift from the devs.  I love using the new content to fight with in the arc they come from.

Pro tip from "Elite tamer":

That event is over, Skill up your Bears that you bought.  

Ill be using a FWW/Civ bear on my highest SDI weaver mage, Eating up crowds of demons.
Allen will use his AI/Chiv bear. He killed everything on TC and the Runes.
Thunderstorm, Chain Lightning, Meteor shower.

The bosses are called Meatballs.

1. Make sure your pack animals are all skilled to 100 in Wrestling and Parry.
2. Then skill the remaining skills to 100.
3. Use another player/friend/etc to help skill the pet up, have them take primary attack position with a 5 slot pet.
4. Consider only using taming masteries during skilling up and training pets.  This will make you a better player.
5. One reason to use pack pets is the lower taming and lore requirements.  That's counter to using the taming masteries, as those should be used when you have 120 real taming and lore skills.
6. Take packs of 5 to boss fights, when there are many other players there.  Target switching isn't such a problem here, as the boss will switch away from your pet anyway.  Even the MOE boss was a good target for packs of hounds.
7. Don't take pack pets to certain AOE attack bosses, like the exodus and zipactriol area attacks.
   
8. Pack pets aren't really necessary for lesser than boss monsters.
9. Get to LMC55 if you insist on using mana heavy masteries.

My 2 cents:

UO was/is a MMORPG; where the MM stand for massively multiplayer. While much of the game can kind of be solo'ed by people that have spent time figuring it out (or running multiple accounts; ie bard), the spirit of the game is to still play it with others. 

Like with most of UO, you have two choices here. You can either figure out the best way to use this mastery that has been around for 5-10 years (unchanged) or you can do something else in the game (or not - you can also not play at all). Outside of those 2 things, there aren't many other options. It never ceases to amaze me how you make all of these post wanting to change aspects of the game based on your own playing experiences and nobody else. You repeatedly ask for the game to be watered down or some sort of God-mode. Sounds like you should look into a single person version of this game to play off-line.

Cookie said:

@ Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
Why?

Democracy is the least worst political system.

How to start.. Where to begin.. there is soooo much!
Even Keven (sry) comment is tilting; just say synergize..

@JackFlashUk we both know that cheat code exist, no wonder he keeps asking for them from the dev.. Even Cookie is here asking for the same.. he can't be bother to write his own scripts; that "knowledge" have long been lost. 

The dude is legit saying giving full power on economy to the bots was some of the best game design ever. *smh*

Paiwan still hvn't pick a lane.. gj on practicing a new 180 degree speech about the pack, tho

Nah yeah, I won't write 3 pages.. there is way too much..



Edit: like let's automate everything and remove the 700-720 skill limit.
I could have written one paragraph for ~80% of the sentence from this post..

Violet said:

Cookie said:

@ Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
Why?

Shadow Hounds (and all 5 pack animals) are meant to be glass cannons, they can do more damage than a 5 slot pet.  To balance that they have less health and resists, as one costs more mana, and they end up being more situational or more influenced by the tamer's ability/spec.  Also apparently for some they can be more difficult to control.

As One cost 40 mana same as consume damage?  

ForeverFun said:

1. Make sure your pack animals are all skilled to 100 in Wrestling and Parry.
2. Then skill the remaining skills to 100.
3. Use another player/friend/etc to help skill the pet up, have them take primary attack position with a 5 slot pet.
4. Consider only using taming masteries during skilling up and training pets.  This will make you a better player.
5. One reason to use pack pets is the lower taming and lore requirements.  That's counter to using the taming masteries, as those should be used when you have 120 real taming and lore skills.
6. Take packs of 5 to boss fights, when there are many other players there.  Target switching isn't such a problem here, as the boss will switch away from your pet anyway.  Even the MOE boss was a good target for packs of hounds.
7. Don't take pack pets to certain AOE attack bosses, like the exodus and zipactriol area attacks.
   
8. Pack pets aren't really necessary for lesser than boss monsters.
9. Get to LMC55 if you insist on using mana heavy masteries.

Grimbeard said:

Violet said:

Cookie said:

@ Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
Why?

Shadow Hounds (and all 5 pack animals) are meant to be glass cannons, they can do more damage than a 5 slot pet.  To balance that they have less health and resists, as one costs more mana, and they end up being more situational or more influenced by the tamer's ability/spec.  Also apparently for some they can be more difficult to control.

As One cost 40 mana same as consume damage?  

Tier 1 – The One Allows pets to share damage while they are close to their master. Requires multiple pets to active.

       I think that is design idea to be aka beast master and fight in melee combat with your pets so that choice is for combat tamer characters with mana leach.
       You still can combine mr + mage weapon mana leach weapon if you prefer play mage type tamer but still mastery says you have to stay close, so i think it means to be melee fighter tamer build and have enough mr + mana leach to use it.

       P.S. like we have choices in game all the time right ? nobody complain that if you are sworder that is not fair to not be able use bows. This type of mastery could have different core idea as well.

Garret said:

Tier 1 – The One Allows pets to share damage while they are close to their master. Requires multiple pets to active.

       I think that is design idea to be aka beast master and fight in melee combat with your pets so that choice is for combat tamer characters with mana leach.
       You still can combine mr + mage weapon mana leach weapon if you prefer play mage type tamer but still mastery says you have to stay close, so i think it means to be melee fighter tamer build and have enough mr + mana leach to use it.

       P.S. like we have choices in game all the time right ? nobody complain that if you are sworder that is not fair to not be able use bows. This type of mastery could have different core idea as well.

Grimbeard said:

As One cost 40 mana same as consume damage?  

I was referring to the upkeep cost as that was the complaint of Popps. Nice try.

Garret said:

Tier 1 – The One Allows pets to share damage while they are close to their master. Requires multiple pets to active.

       I think that is design idea to be aka beast master and fight in melee combat with your pets so that choice is for combat tamer characters with mana leach.

I do not think this was the actual design idea behind As One.  But it is a good use of it, although a lot of the time not needed really depending on your setup and what you are doing.  Packs can do really well on archers using the archery mastery Playing the Odds also.

And yes, there are choices in game, everything and everyone doesn't need to be the same.

Iniquity said:

Grimbeard said:

Violet said:

Cookie said:

@ Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
Why?

Shadow Hounds (and all 5 pack animals) are meant to be glass cannons, they can do more damage than a 5 slot pet.  To balance that they have less health and resists, as one costs more mana, and they end up being more situational or more influenced by the tamer's ability/spec.  Also apparently for some they can be more difficult to control.

As One cost 40 mana same as consume damage?  

Leave you all to it, I'm not here to argue with tamers on taming, my original Cu still has a display bug where it swallowed a 120 Tactics, and it does not show on the display, even though he has the 120 tactics skill.

On one hand, some impressive number crunching by popps, on the other, decent explanations by everyone, but for me, it boils down to when a player plays the game - what does it feel like, how smooth, how much sense does it make when you play it.

If popps is playing this, and his comments come from that point of view, then what he says is valid. If he is just number crunching, maybe not so. The same to everyone. It's all very well saying it should work like this etc, this is why it's done, but ultimately it's about how playable for someone as a player. In pvp, I can just feel when something is off.

popps said:

Garret said:

Tier 1 – The One Allows pets to share damage while they are close to their master. Requires multiple pets to active.

       I think that is design idea to be aka beast master and fight in melee combat with your pets so that choice is for combat tamer characters with mana leach.
       You still can combine mr + mage weapon mana leach weapon if you prefer play mage type tamer but still mastery says you have to stay close, so i think it means to be melee fighter tamer build and have enough mr + mana leach to use it.

       P.S. like we have choices in game all the time right ? nobody complain that if you are sworder that is not fair to not be able use bows. This type of mastery could have different core idea as well.

I imagine that, for Combat Tamers, you mean melee since ranged fights from a distance, not toe to toe and this would bring the tamer not close to the pack instinct pets... most tamers, understandably for the mana and thus high intelligence needs, are either spellcasting Tamers or Bard Tamers, I do not see combat tamers much at all... mana needs high intelligence, 120 meditation, perhaps also focus as high as possible, melee needs high dexterity and getting a mix of both helps neither... the issue that pact instinct pets are a situational type of pet, does not help making the choice for a Tamer with combat and high dexterity and low intelligence since the occasions to use pact instinct pets are too few, to my opinion, to justify building a Tamer for combat and with high dexterity and low intelligence.

Furthermore, if the Tamer has low intelligence because they have high dexterity for melee combat, how would he/she deal with the very intensive need for mana that The One taming mastery has ?

  I don’t see any reason to believe that a tamer must be only a magician with high intelligence and regenerative skills.
  You can combine thrower with parry for greater protection and leeches, you can play with shadowstrike to reset aggro, you can play force arrows or just from a distance if you are an archer.   
   Pet healing is also not tied only to mastery and magery, there is veterinary, there is bard masterys, there is chivalry with a large FC this is a very strong healing and chivalry is mostly melee disign so you will able do more damage and leech mana aswell, there is wrath form aswell for extra mana  drain - you can have wrath form withoit any investments in to this skills (Pro tip - wrath from drain mana with bard mastery despair for infinite loop).
   But if the question is only about the balance of mana, please note that the bard barely has enough mana to support his songs, if the bard begins to use additional abilities during songs, then he will also find himself without mana, in any solo situation a melee fighter cannot constantly use one ability since it increases in cost in a 3 second window.
    So I think that the original idea is that abilities should cost more than you can afford. Manage the character and play the game not with mindless cast of all the abilities, but using them according to the situation? But today we have so many characteristics and strong items that we shouldn’t focus only on the Tamer Mage and try other combinations.
    But even if your choice was only on this combination, isn’t it logical that you should not always be able to do everything at once, as a magical character you probably want to keep your distance, and the meaning of the ability (as one) to stand next to your pets somehow does not fit into class Identity?

It's 5 pets not one of course upkeep is high this changes nothing popps can adapt or not use a pack 

Cookie said:

Leave you all to it, I'm not here to argue with tamers on taming, my original Cu still has a display bug where it swallowed a 120 Tactics, and it does not show on the display, even though he has the 120 tactics skill.

On one hand, some impressive number crunching by popps, on the other, decent explanations by everyone, but for me, it boils down to when a player plays the game - what does it feel like, how smooth, how much sense does it make when you play it.

If popps is playing this, and his comments come from that point of view, then what he says is valid. If he is just number crunching, maybe not so. The same to everyone. It's all very well saying it should work like this etc, this is why it's done, but ultimately it's about how playable for someone as a player. In pvp, I can just feel when something is off.

Garret said:

popps said:

Garret said:

Tier 1 – The One Allows pets to share damage while they are close to their master. Requires multiple pets to active.

       I think that is design idea to be aka beast master and fight in melee combat with your pets so that choice is for combat tamer characters with mana leach.
       You still can combine mr + mage weapon mana leach weapon if you prefer play mage type tamer but still mastery says you have to stay close, so i think it means to be melee fighter tamer build and have enough mr + mana leach to use it.

       P.S. like we have choices in game all the time right ? nobody complain that if you are sworder that is not fair to not be able use bows. This type of mastery could have different core idea as well.

I imagine that, for Combat Tamers, you mean melee since ranged fights from a distance, not toe to toe and this would bring the tamer not close to the pack instinct pets... most tamers, understandably for the mana and thus high intelligence needs, are either spellcasting Tamers or Bard Tamers, I do not see combat tamers much at all... mana needs high intelligence, 120 meditation, perhaps also focus as high as possible, melee needs high dexterity and getting a mix of both helps neither... the issue that pact instinct pets are a situational type of pet, does not help making the choice for a Tamer with combat and high dexterity and low intelligence since the occasions to use pact instinct pets are too few, to my opinion, to justify building a Tamer for combat and with high dexterity and low intelligence.

Furthermore, if the Tamer has low intelligence because they have high dexterity for melee combat, how would he/she deal with the very intensive need for mana that The One taming mastery has ?

  I don’t see any reason to believe that a tamer must be only a magician with high intelligence and regenerative skills.
  You can combine thrower with parry for greater protection and leeches, you can play with shadowstrike to reset aggro, you can play force arrows or just from a distance if you are an archer.   
   Pet healing is also not tied only to mastery and magery, there is veterinary, there is bard masterys, there is chivalry with a large FC this is a very strong healing and chivalry is mostly melee disign so you will able do more damage and leech mana aswell, there is wrath form aswell for extra mana  drain - you can have wrath form withoit any investments in to this skills (Pro tip - wrath from drain mana with bard mastery despair for infinite loop).
   But if the question is only about the balance of mana, please note that the bard barely has enough mana to support his songs, if the bard begins to use additional abilities during songs, then he will also find himself without mana, in any solo situation a melee fighter cannot constantly use one ability since it increases in cost in a 3 second window.
    So I think that the original idea is that abilities should cost more than you can afford. Manage the character and play the game not with mindless cast of all the abilities, but using them according to the situation? But today we have so many characteristics and strong items that we shouldn’t focus only on the Tamer Mage and try other combinations.
    But even if your choice was only on this combination, isn’t it logical that you should not always be able to do everything at once, as a magical character you probably want to keep your distance, and the meaning of the ability (as one) to stand next to your pets somehow does not fit into class Identity?

Grimbeard said:

It's 5 pets not one of course upkeep is high this changes nothing popps can adapt or not use a pack 

popps said:

Garret said:

popps said:

Garret said:

Tier 1 – The One Allows pets to share damage while they are close to their master. Requires multiple pets to active.

       I think that is design idea to be aka beast master and fight in melee combat with your pets so that choice is for combat tamer characters with mana leach.
       You still can combine mr + mage weapon mana leach weapon if you prefer play mage type tamer but still mastery says you have to stay close, so i think it means to be melee fighter tamer build and have enough mr + mana leach to use it.

       P.S. like we have choices in game all the time right ? nobody complain that if you are sworder that is not fair to not be able use bows. This type of mastery could have different core idea as well.

I imagine that, for Combat Tamers, you mean melee since ranged fights from a distance, not toe to toe and this would bring the tamer not close to the pack instinct pets... most tamers, understandably for the mana and thus high intelligence needs, are either spellcasting Tamers or Bard Tamers, I do not see combat tamers much at all... mana needs high intelligence, 120 meditation, perhaps also focus as high as possible, melee needs high dexterity and getting a mix of both helps neither... the issue that pact instinct pets are a situational type of pet, does not help making the choice for a Tamer with combat and high dexterity and low intelligence since the occasions to use pact instinct pets are too few, to my opinion, to justify building a Tamer for combat and with high dexterity and low intelligence.

Furthermore, if the Tamer has low intelligence because they have high dexterity for melee combat, how would he/she deal with the very intensive need for mana that The One taming mastery has ?

  I don’t see any reason to believe that a tamer must be only a magician with high intelligence and regenerative skills.
  You can combine thrower with parry for greater protection and leeches, you can play with shadowstrike to reset aggro, you can play force arrows or just from a distance if you are an archer.   
   Pet healing is also not tied only to mastery and magery, there is veterinary, there is bard masterys, there is chivalry with a large FC this is a very strong healing and chivalry is mostly melee disign so you will able do more damage and leech mana aswell, there is wrath form aswell for extra mana  drain - you can have wrath form withoit any investments in to this skills (Pro tip - wrath from drain mana with bard mastery despair for infinite loop).
   But if the question is only about the balance of mana, please note that the bard barely has enough mana to support his songs, if the bard begins to use additional abilities during songs, then he will also find himself without mana, in any solo situation a melee fighter cannot constantly use one ability since it increases in cost in a 3 second window.
    So I think that the original idea is that abilities should cost more than you can afford. Manage the character and play the game not with mindless cast of all the abilities, but using them according to the situation? But today we have so many characteristics and strong items that we shouldn’t focus only on the Tamer Mage and try other combinations.
    But even if your choice was only on this combination, isn’t it logical that you should not always be able to do everything at once, as a magical character you probably want to keep your distance, and the meaning of the ability (as one) to stand next to your pets somehow does not fit into class Identity?

I get your point, it is only that the Taming Masteries use Mana, and a lot of it, while a Warrior needs dexterity for faster swinging... to me, they look 2 dfferent needs not merging well one with the needs of the other...

And this, particularly when using pack instinct pets which are very weak since they remain usually at slot 1, at most slot 2 and, thus, need continuous healing especially if the Target hits hard... pack instinct pets have low resistances... the strongest for Shadow House in Physical and Cold only get up to 65%... Fire, mind you, only goes up to 45% Poison and Energy can only go up to 35%... this means, that these pets do take hits, they do need frequent healing because if they start dieing the fight becomes a mess... veterinary needs skill points, close wounds from chivalry could help (not sure if close wounds heals less as compared to greater heal if one has less then 120 chivalry), but the issue with Taming Masteries depending on mana still remains when having to decide between intelligence or dexterity...

So i see it is more like game design and class balance issue then mana issue.

popps said:

ForeverFun said:

1. Make sure your pack animals are all skilled to 100 in Wrestling and Parry.
2. Then skill the remaining skills to 100.
3. Use another player/friend/etc to help skill the pet up, have them take primary attack position with a 5 slot pet.
4. Consider only using taming masteries during skilling up and training pets.  This will make you a better player.
5. One reason to use pack pets is the lower taming and lore requirements.  That's counter to using the taming masteries, as those should be used when you have 120 real taming and lore skills.
6. Take packs of 5 to boss fights, when there are many other players there.  Target switching isn't such a problem here, as the boss will switch away from your pet anyway.  Even the MOE boss was a good target for packs of hounds.
7. Don't take pack pets to certain AOE attack bosses, like the exodus and zipactriol area attacks.
   
8. Pack pets aren't really necessary for lesser than boss monsters.
9. Get to LMC55 if you insist on using mana heavy masteries.

At point 3 you suggest to use another player/friend/etc to help skill the pet up and have them take primary attack position with a 5 slot pet. Do you mean that the training of a pack instinct pet should be done individually (one pet of the pack at the time, not using the entire pack at once) and with another tamer using another pet, a 5 slot one, to tank the target which the pack pet under training would be hitting ?

Then, in regards to your suggestion 9, you suggest to get to Lower Mana Cost 55 when using mana heavy masteries... but doesn't LMC55 use suits which reduce the Mana Regen ?

So, while on one side one would gain 15 LMC from 40 to 55, one would suffer a reduction of mana regen and wouldn't this actually worsen the mana upkeep rather then bettering it ?

Thank you.

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

He's a troll. plain and simple, has done this a very long time. It's that or he feels it's his duty to keep the boards loaded with threads, regardless of their content.

popps said:

Grimbeard said:

It's 5 pets not one of course upkeep is high this changes nothing popps can adapt or not use a pack 

So the solution is that of not playing game content rather then making it more playable by reducing the mana consumption for the As One Taming Mastery ?

I see....

I think you read about how effective a pack was took yours out against tough monsters got your ass kicked because you didn't bother to learn how to properly use your pets

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

he does not want an answer, he wants to mass debate 

this is what he does

he will not post his stats because his char is shit, he is shit, he has no interest in the pets or skill he cramps over, and he creates posts so he can justify his Kleenex subscription

Why he is not banned I do not know

He is a perv troll and he fuels his fetish here


Next topic Popps. this one is all spent and dried up now.............

Participation is not mandatory. Leave posts like these hanging without comment and they pass quickly.

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

popps said:

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

I think that I mentioned that, even witth the best stats possible, that is, even having 150 INT, 30 MR, 120 Meditation, 120 Focus, 40 LMC and having real 120 Taming and Animal Lore skills (all things not easy to be achieved all of them together...), one can only reach an output of 3.65 mana per seconds while the As One Taming Mastery needs 3.72 mana per seconds to keep running...

And this, just to keep the Mastery running, forget about casting any other spell be it greater heals or others...

My argument being, that even with the very best stats that one can get it is not enough for the current mana requirement with the As One Taming Mastery that is much necessary to help out pack instinct very weak pets... anything below this, only makes things worse...

Furthermore, the As One mastery does not heal the pack pets... only gets them to share the damage sustained... the tamer still needs to heal them up to keep them alive during the fight... which needs more mana to cast the greater heals needed for the various pets in the pack or to find room in the template for 120 veterinary...

Do you have 250 mana?

popps said:

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

I think that I mentioned that, even witth the best stats possible, that is, even having 150 INT, 30 MR, 120 Meditation, 120 Focus, 40 LMC and having real 120 Taming and Animal Lore skills (all things not easy to be achieved all of them together...), one can only reach an output of 3.65 mana per seconds while the As One Taming Mastery needs 3.72 mana per seconds to keep running...

And this, just to keep the Mastery running, forget about casting any other spell be it greater heals or others...

My argument being, that even with the very best stats that one can get it is not enough for the current mana requirement with the As One Taming Mastery that is much necessary to help out pack instinct very weak pets... anything below this, only makes things worse...

Furthermore, the As One mastery does not heal the pack pets... only gets them to share the damage sustained... the tamer still needs to heal them up to keep them alive during the fight... which needs more mana to cast the greater heals needed for the various pets in the pack or to find room in the template for 120 veterinary...

Answer the fu*king question

stop with the hypothetical bullshit

WHAT…….ARE…….YOUR…..STATS

STOP BEING A COMPLETE FOOL

You are being asked a question. Many times in fact.  Stop bashing yourself off and answer

popps said:

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

I think that I mentioned that, even witth the best stats possible, that is, even having 150 INT, 30 MR, 120 Meditation, 120 Focus, 40 LMC and having real 120 Taming and Animal Lore skills (all things not easy to be achieved all of them together...), one can only reach an output of 3.65 mana per seconds while the As One Taming Mastery needs 3.72 mana per seconds to keep running...

And this, just to keep the Mastery running, forget about casting any other spell be it greater heals or others...

My argument being, that even with the very best stats that one can get it is not enough for the current mana requirement with the As One Taming Mastery that is much necessary to help out pack instinct very weak pets... anything below this, only makes things worse...

Furthermore, the As One mastery does not heal the pack pets... only gets them to share the damage sustained... the tamer still needs to heal them up to keep them alive during the fight... which needs more mana to cast the greater heals needed for the various pets in the pack or to find room in the template for 120 veterinary...

So your saying you haven't even tried...

vortex said:

popps said:

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

I think that I mentioned that, even witth the best stats possible, that is, even having 150 INT, 30 MR, 120 Meditation, 120 Focus, 40 LMC and having real 120 Taming and Animal Lore skills (all things not easy to be achieved all of them together...), one can only reach an output of 3.65 mana per seconds while the As One Taming Mastery needs 3.72 mana per seconds to keep running...

And this, just to keep the Mastery running, forget about casting any other spell be it greater heals or others...

My argument being, that even with the very best stats that one can get it is not enough for the current mana requirement with the As One Taming Mastery that is much necessary to help out pack instinct very weak pets... anything below this, only makes things worse...

Furthermore, the As One mastery does not heal the pack pets... only gets them to share the damage sustained... the tamer still needs to heal them up to keep them alive during the fight... which needs more mana to cast the greater heals needed for the various pets in the pack or to find room in the template for 120 veterinary...

So your saying you haven't even tried...

Of course not.

popps said:

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

I think that I mentioned that, even witth the best stats possible, that is, even having 150 INT, 30 MR, 120 Meditation, 120 Focus, 40 LMC and having real 120 Taming and Animal Lore skills (all things not easy to be achieved all of them together...), one can only reach an output of 3.65 mana per seconds while the As One Taming Mastery needs 3.72 mana per seconds to keep running...

And this, just to keep the Mastery running, forget about casting any other spell be it greater heals or others...

My argument being, that even with the very best stats that one can get it is not enough for the current mana requirement with the As One Taming Mastery that is much necessary to help out pack instinct very weak pets... anything below this, only makes things worse...

Furthermore, the As One mastery does not heal the pack pets... only gets them to share the damage sustained... the tamer still needs to heal them up to keep them alive during the fight... which needs more mana to cast the greater heals needed for the various pets in the pack or to find room in the template for 120 veterinary...

Her MR is 30 and it's real simple to put this in a post @popps let us see what your Tamer has and we'll be able to tell you what to change. This is my Tamer on Origin, it's not that great but i can do anything i want to, because I know how to play the game and I have people i can play this MMORPG with. 

Victim_Of_Siege said:

popps said:

vortex said:

Popps post your stats if you want people to help you ignore them asking... You have med? What's your mana Regen and LMC ... This is why I'd never help you with your questions you never reply when people ask you and then you just abandon your post and start a new random topic.

 People are going out of their way to help you and you just debate back.. answer questions if you want help you wonder why every thread you make gets locked

I think that I mentioned that, even witth the best stats possible, that is, even having 150 INT, 30 MR, 120 Meditation, 120 Focus, 40 LMC and having real 120 Taming and Animal Lore skills (all things not easy to be achieved all of them together...), one can only reach an output of 3.65 mana per seconds while the As One Taming Mastery needs 3.72 mana per seconds to keep running...

And this, just to keep the Mastery running, forget about casting any other spell be it greater heals or others...

My argument being, that even with the very best stats that one can get it is not enough for the current mana requirement with the As One Taming Mastery that is much necessary to help out pack instinct very weak pets... anything below this, only makes things worse...

Furthermore, the As One mastery does not heal the pack pets... only gets them to share the damage sustained... the tamer still needs to heal them up to keep them alive during the fight... which needs more mana to cast the greater heals needed for the various pets in the pack or to find room in the template for 120 veterinary...

Her MR is 30 and it's real simple to put this in a post @ popps let us see what your Tamer has and we'll be able to tell you what to change. This is my Tamer on Origin, it's not that great but i can do anything i want to, because I know how to play the game and I have people i can play this MMORPG with. 

He can't be worse than my tamer... low resist keeps you sharp 

popps said:

Grimbeard said:

It's 5 pets not one of course upkeep is high this changes nothing popps can adapt or not use a pack 

So the solution is that of not playing game content rather then making it more playable by reducing the mana consumption for the As One Taming Mastery ?

I see....

You fail to understand that UO isn't designed to be a "one-size fits all" game. There is going to be certain things you can't apply the same strategy to as other things. 

I'll go back to my previous comment... this is a multiplayer game. Perhaps you should make friends instead of trying to water everything down (for everyone) by initiating god-mode for any/every char you have.

KroDuK said:

He can't be worse than my tamer... low resist keeps you sharp 

Or you could make a better luck suit.

I understand why you are hiding the ugly face but why no skill?

Also, my suit is awesome. 

popps said:

Having to control multiple pack animals rather then only 1 is not easy, to watch separate health bars, heal them separatedly, watch multiple pack pets going on their own towards side targets who aggro them, having all sorts of issues and control problems when having to walk multiple pack pets through side spawn before reaching the wanted hunting ground, having to deal with multiple pets much weaker and, thus, easier to get killed (and thus in need to being resurrected) and so forth.

If the pets are not set to "Guard", and the last command they received was to "Follow", then they'll completely ignore being aggroed by any mobs that you pass by on the way to your main hunting target. I have zero problems dragging a pack of pets through an active spawn and keeping them with me.

Garret said:

Tier 1 – The One Allows pets to share damage while they are close to their master. Requires multiple pets to active.

       I think that is design idea to be aka beast master and fight in melee combat with your pets so that choice is for combat tamer characters with mana leach.
       You still can combine mr + mage weapon mana leach weapon if you prefer play mage type tamer but still mastery says you have to stay close, so i think it means to be melee fighter tamer build and have enough mr + mana leach to use it.

       P.S. like we have choices in game all the time right ? nobody complain that if you are sworder that is not fair to not be able use bows. This type of mastery could have different core idea as well.

"As One" functions so long as you're on the same screen as the pets. You don't have to be within melee range or really close to them for it to function.

Pawain said:

The hounds melted the gates with MoE.  Was an under appreciated gift from the devs.  I love using the new content to fight with in the arc they come from.

Hunting with a pack takes a really skilled tamer to manage it. I admit my limitations and never use more than 2 pets, and even then sometimes lose track of my own health bar by concentrating on the pets. Perhaps popps also needs to admit to his limitations rather than asking that the game be altered to adjust to skill level?

Petra_Fyde said:

Hunting with a pack takes a really skilled tamer to manage it. I admit my limitations and never use more than 2 pets, and even then sometimes lose track of my own health bar by concentrating on the pets. Perhaps popps also needs to admit to his limitations rather than asking that the game be altered to adjust to skill level?

Never!! We must change this MMPORG to fit his playstyle (and limitations)! His crafter should be able to take down Scalis solo!

 Here's my Atlantic tamer that has no issues killing anything Also has 30 MR. Let's see yours @popps

Victim_Of_Siege said:

 Here's my Atlantic tamer that has no issues killing anything Also has 30 MR. Let's see yours @ popps

He's moved on to the new rewards and ignoring what he started like usual when asked for his stats and skills... Why I will never help him out.

vortex said:

Victim_Of_Siege said:

 Here's my Atlantic tamer that has no issues killing anything Also has 30 MR. Let's see yours @ popps

He's moved on to the new rewards and ignoring what he started like usual when asked for his stats and skills... Why I will never help him out.

I know, He's a Troll and I like to call him out when he's being this obvious. 

It's clearly not the fear to be shame.. after seeing my tamer stats..