New player ventures forth into Sosaria...some feedback

@Messana @Bleak @Kyronix

So a couple days ago a friend agreed to create an account (EJ) and try UO. Let's call him Roger. 

Roger played Ultima 5 about 30 years ago. In 2001 or 2002 he played UO for an hour or so on my account. That was the summation of his experience with Ultima.

Yesterday evening we set up a voice chat and decided to give UO a try. I planned to start a new EJ account just to go through with him and see what he was seeing.

Here is some feedback from the experience of seeing UO through the eyes of a truly new player.

***

1. When we started the chat I asked him if he was ready to set up an EA master account and he said he had already setup an account and was at the shard selection screen.

I *boggled*. He is not the most techy person. I asked him if he was sure he had setup an EA master account and a UO account.

He said yes, it was "easy". (At this point I wasn't sure if he had actually setup an account, or was just messing with me.)

Then he said, "well, the EA account was kind of a pain, but it wasn't hard."

He had setup his accounts while UO was downloading in the background. (We went with the EC.)

Whatever you all have done with the account management system, it is better.

I rushed off to setup an EJ account while he started character creation.

2. Roger likes to read the stories of the games he plays. He plays a lot of Baldur's Gate, tabletop D&D, etc. So during character creation he was reading the info about races, skills, the towns he could start in, etc. 

He lost connection twice (for being idle - while he was reading background info) and had to restart the character creation process. (As an aside, I didn't realize you all had put so much info into the character creation system. It's nice to see it fleshed out.)

Having to restart his character was frustrating for him and lead to some big sighs and him asking me why they bothered to write all these things down if they weren't going to give him time to read them.

At the end of character creation when you choose a name, there is no warning that you can't use certain text characters in the name. If you do use invalid text characters, you are kicked all the way back to the beginning of character creation, rather than just having the name rejected. Not a fun process.

3. Roger has been playing a lot of Diablo 3. The customizability of almost everything in UO's UI, the ability to move everything where you want it, the hotbar system, the sheer volume of user options, he was pretty blown away. We didn't spend a lot of time with the UI, just basically explained the gumps that show up on the screen when the EC starts, arranged them, and that was it. I had never thought about how overwhelming UO could be to someone who's never seen it before. We veterans are just conditioned to it.

4. Roger decided to play a mage. We started in New Haven and walked up to the magery vendor so he could fill out his spellbook. He started with ~15 spells in the book? He opened his spellbook to see the spells he didn't have and opened the vendor menu to select those he wanted. Then he pushed accept on the bottom of the vendor menu. He did not get any of the spells he had selected and did not spend any of this gold.

So, he reopened the vendor menu and chose all his spells again. The gold total at the bottom of his vendor menu said something like 550/1000 gold. He pushed accept and again did not get any spells nor spend any gold.

This was frustrating for him. It lead to more sighs and "what am I doing wrong" questions.

Then I remembered something about having to have the gold in your bank account.

5. The banking gump has a lot of options. Transfer account, secure account, currency account. It is evidently very confusing to someone who hasn't played UO before. Everything else in game works on drag & drop, but you cannot just drag & drop a pile of gold into your EJ bank box? Not a big deal, but it is discontinuous with the way the rest of the game works. (And one more "special instance" thing a new player has to remember.)

6. The new player tickets are a nice touch. The ticket says not to give it to someone else so Roger did not want to take it out of his bank box. You cannot click your ticket from your bank box or backpack and target someone else's ticket in the trade window. How exactly are you supposed to target another players ticket, without losing your own? (This was Roger's question, not mine.) Eventually, I just put my ticket on the ground and had Roger target it. The wearables dyeing system in UO is much more robust that D3's.

7. For Roger, coming from games like D3 and Path of Exile, having a character that can carry 125 items is a godsend. Creating a second character for additional storage was a familiar and easily executed concept. The fact he could have 9 additional accounts under his master, all of which could have 2 characters that could hold 125 items (plus bank boxes) was just nuts.

I didn't mention the Vault, but nobody really wants to play a "game" consisting of keeping track of characters and what they are carrying (at least not me, and neither does Roger really), so hopefully some type of additional storage for EJ players is still in the works.

Honestly, I thought with only 20 items in the bank box, storage would be a real problem, but it turned out to be a complete non-issue.

8. I left Roger with 6 accelerated gain quests going and killing things in Old Haven. Haven't talked to him yet today. Don't know if he'll ever subscribe, but you may have just picked up at least one new player.

Great read! Thanks!

When did vendors stop accepting cash? Where are we? Sweden?

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Honestly, I thought with only 20 items in the bank box, storage would be a real problem, but it turned out to be a complete non-issue.

I suspect if he’s enjoying the game and then gets frustrated with the EJ restrictions, there’s a danger he would...subscribe.

MissE said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Honestly, I thought with only 20 items in the bank box, storage would be a real problem, but it turned out to be a complete non-issue.

If you are happy to create another bunch of characters as  you said to 'get' additional storage then that is a fail.  I too started an EJ account.  Playing on siege where you need to keep back up suits (although most people generally NEED a back up suit irrespective of shard) I didn't have room for zip. 

8 items (armor jewels)

1 stack smoke bombs

1 stack of gate scrolls

8 mage regs

4 necro regs

= 22 items................ oh darn can't fit in bank, no pots for me!

Lets see how that storage goes when the dude has been playing for a week without creating other accounts.

Wait til he goes to use a crystal or corrupted portal, also a fail.   If you hadn't remembered about gold in the bank and a newbie had noone assisting odds are they would get so frustrated at that point it would also kill a lot of em off.  I stated in another post my experience with EJ and the fact I won't be recommending it to anyone. 

2 major problems with your try at slamming EJ
#1 He is playing a prodo shard because he says he can have 2 chars and
#2 We are talking a new player trying out UO and not some old vet and what you going to use EJ as a main char on SP or are you going to use it as a support to your active account that has plenty of storage.  Good try at trying to slam a new player though.

Bilbo said:

MissE said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Honestly, I thought with only 20 items in the bank box, storage would be a real problem, but it turned out to be a complete non-issue.

If you are happy to create another bunch of characters as  you said to 'get' additional storage then that is a fail.  I too started an EJ account.  Playing on siege where you need to keep back up suits (although most people generally NEED a back up suit irrespective of shard) I didn't have room for zip. 

8 items (armor jewels)

1 stack smoke bombs

1 stack of gate scrolls

8 mage regs

4 necro regs

= 22 items................ oh darn can't fit in bank, no pots for me!

Lets see how that storage goes when the dude has been playing for a week without creating other accounts.

Wait til he goes to use a crystal or corrupted portal, also a fail.   If you hadn't remembered about gold in the bank and a newbie had noone assisting odds are they would get so frustrated at that point it would also kill a lot of em off.  I stated in another post my experience with EJ and the fact I won't be recommending it to anyone. 

2 major problems with your try at slamming EJ
#1 He is playing a prodo shard because he says he can have 2 chars and
#2 We are talking a new player trying out UO and not some old vet and what you going to use EJ as a main char on SP or are you going to use it as a support to your active account that has plenty of storage.  Good try at trying to slam a new player though.

MissE said:

Bilbo said:

MissE said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Honestly, I thought with only 20 items in the bank box, storage would be a real problem, but it turned out to be a complete non-issue.

If you are happy to create another bunch of characters as  you said to 'get' additional storage then that is a fail.  I too started an EJ account.  Playing on siege where you need to keep back up suits (although most people generally NEED a back up suit irrespective of shard) I didn't have room for zip. 

8 items (armor jewels)

1 stack smoke bombs

1 stack of gate scrolls

8 mage regs

4 necro regs

= 22 items................ oh darn can't fit in bank, no pots for me!

Lets see how that storage goes when the dude has been playing for a week without creating other accounts.

Wait til he goes to use a crystal or corrupted portal, also a fail.   If you hadn't remembered about gold in the bank and a newbie had noone assisting odds are they would get so frustrated at that point it would also kill a lot of em off.  I stated in another post my experience with EJ and the fact I won't be recommending it to anyone. 

2 major problems with your try at slamming EJ
#1 He is playing a prodo shard because he says he can have 2 chars and
#2 We are talking a new player trying out UO and not some old vet and what you going to use EJ as a main char on SP or are you going to use it as a support to your active account that has plenty of storage.  Good try at trying to slam a new player though.

* Firstly take your personal attacks on me and shove em. 

* Secondly I KNOW he is playing prodo. But he comments about creating extra characters for storage and in the next breath says "I thought with only 20 items in the bank box, storage would be a real problem" so there is a bit of a discrepancy there.  If you need to create chars to get extra storage then there IS a problem with 20 items.

* Thirdly, I am a vet from Oceania and I play Siege, I pay monthly for 3 accounts, have 2 other closed accounts which I have NO intention of opening, nor do I intend closing my existing 3 paid accounts.  I had every intention of getting my ex guildies from Oce who haven't played for about 5 yrs to give EJ a go and to come and play with me on Siege so created an EJ account so I could get an idea of what it was like to play before I bothered to try and coax them back.

I figured after a month or so if I could get them back they 'may' resubscribe, especially as Siege probably has lot more to attract them than prodo these days.   So far it is a dismal affair and I just don't see it as being playable, ESPECIALLY on Siege where you DO need to keep at least 1 if not 2 suits on hand.   Having experienced an EJ char on there I find that if I wanted to get friends to play then I would spend all my damn time in game meeting up with them to resupply them and pass them suits, and pass them all the basic stuff they will need to play as they can't store it themselves. You cant even give em a box and leave stuff for em or give them access to  your house. On that basis, forget it, I do not need to spend my day having to nurse along returning players so I won't bother.

And exactly which new player am I slamming?  Do tell.   The OP is also a vet just describing his experience.  Don't see any 'new' player that I have responded to.

Maybe you should learn to read, he is talking about a real new player that can not post here and is relating their thoughts.  Sorry UO didn't give you more storage for SP so you could play for free. 

EJ can drop a stack of coin directly onto the NPC banker to deposit it. I think a little description of basic bank text commands inside the bank gump would be useful.

UO has always been a bit hard to learn from a purely new player perspective, which is why new player guilds are so useful in UO. UO takes some persistence and determination lol - even as a subscriber. Looks like you have a friend who is aware he is playing the game for free and does not mind some extra work to do so. I hope he enjoys Sosaria, it is a wonderful world!

(On a side note, Siege Perilous is the HARD SHARD. It is already a challenge as a subscriber, but even more so as EJ. Not impossible, they just need to make friends. You know... like the days before Soul Stones.)

Bilbo said:

Maybe you should learn to read, he is talking about a real new player that can not post here and is relating their thoughts.  Sorry UO didn't give you more storage for SP so you could play for free. 

I think we can all agree EJ still needs some work, some people seem to think being allowed to play UO at all is a great privilege and playing for free means you should put up and shut up, but there are plenty of other free games, some of them are even quite fun....hopefully EJ will evolve and some of the people who tried it at the start and gave up will have another go.

The trick (as far as I see it) is to find the balance between allowing genuine players to get a feel for the game and want to subscribe and not allowing unscrupulous players to exploit the heck out of it. Not an easy balancing act.

I think a main reason for much of the restrictions is scripters. Outside programs that can invade the code and do things that are not intended. Unless this crippling weakness is fixed, this war against scripters will always get in the way and consume massive resources that could be better spent. A tiny mandatory update, every single day, would destroy most (if not all) of these programs. It would also hinder the ''legal'' ones, but imo ALL programs need to be outlawed for the sake of the greater good. Those benefits can be added to the code instead of relying on outside parties, as the engine is obviously capable of it. I cannot think of a single anti-scripting measure that was added to the code that really made any impact on the cheaters, but instead had a far greater negative impact on the people NOT scripting.

I do think EJ needs work to be an effective trial period, or an effective F2P model that relies on store purchases instead of the rather antiquated notion of subscription fees from our current ADHD generation. As I said, concerns need to be voiced and suggestions and changes need to be made. However, I also think some people have very high expectations and demands for zero payment. And since many people cling to their cherished ''legal'' 3rd party programs in a vulnerable client, no effective measures can be taken to stop the illegal ones.

This means that some changes to EJ simply cannot ever be made.

Petra_Fyde said:

The trick (as far as I see it) is to find the balance between allowing genuine players to get a feel for the game and want to subscribe and not allowing unscrupulous players to exploit the heck out of it. Not an easy balancing act.

AMEN

Petra_Fyde said:

The trick (as far as I see it) is to find the balance between allowing genuine players to get a feel for the game and want to subscribe and not allowing unscrupulous players to exploit the heck out of it. Not an easy balancing act.

And that thinking is why it's such a pain for the people actually playing it. But it's been pointed out many times, so little point to do it again.

JollyJade said:

Petra_Fyde said:

The trick (as far as I see it) is to find the balance between allowing genuine players to get a feel for the game and want to subscribe and not allowing unscrupulous players to exploit the heck out of it. Not an easy balancing act.

And that thinking is why it's such a pain for the people actually playing it. But it's been pointed out many times, so little point to do it again.

And why is that?  Are you saying EJ accounts should have everything UO has to offer for free, what would be the incentive to subscribe then.  Petra is right you need to give EJ accounts enough to get a good understanding of UO but in the long run they will need to sub at some point to gain access to everything UO has to offer.

Bilbo said:

JollyJade said:

Petra_Fyde said:

The trick (as far as I see it) is to find the balance between allowing genuine players to get a feel for the game and want to subscribe and not allowing unscrupulous players to exploit the heck out of it. Not an easy balancing act.

And that thinking is why it's such a pain for the people actually playing it. But it's been pointed out many times, so little point to do it again.

And why is that?  Are you saying EJ accounts should have everything UO has to offer for free, what would be the incentive to subscribe then.  Petra is right you need to give EJ accounts enough to get a good understanding of UO but in the long run they will need to sub at some point to gain access to everything UO has to offer.

Let's start with allowing EJ players to take items out of their bank boxes? Or is that too tricky?  😂

Or let them share their feedback here on the forums. Too tricky again?

Baby steps, you know. Doesn't take much to see it. But some tend to have no faith in people and only see bad people everywhere. May god bless their hearts.

I hope EA puts some pressure on when they see UO F2P isnt bringing in much new revenue. I really hope...

jaytin said:

I think we can all agree EJ still needs some work, some people seem to think being allowed to play UO at all is a great privilege and playing for free means you should put up and shut up, but there are plenty of other free games, some of them are even quite fun....hopefully EJ will evolve and some of the people who tried it at the start and gave up will have another go.

At the current pace that will be 2025. It's been weeks, we didn't hear a single official word when the vault is coming and people are still stuck without being able to actually take items out of their bank boxes. Great launch  😂

It makes no sense to me, they talked about this 'vault' months before at the Anniversary party, it was well documented at that time, so what did they do? Forget about it?! They should have delayed the launch until they thought things through, it's not like they paid for advertising or anything, they didn't even invite journalists to the 20th Anniversary! 

JollyJade said:

Bilbo said:

JollyJade said:

Petra_Fyde said:

The trick (as far as I see it) is to find the balance between allowing genuine players to get a feel for the game and want to subscribe and not allowing unscrupulous players to exploit the heck out of it. Not an easy balancing act.

And that thinking is why it's such a pain for the people actually playing it. But it's been pointed out many times, so little point to do it again.

And why is that?  Are you saying EJ accounts should have everything UO has to offer for free, what would be the incentive to subscribe then.  Petra is right you need to give EJ accounts enough to get a good understanding of UO but in the long run they will need to sub at some point to gain access to everything UO has to offer.

Let's start with allowing EJ players to take items out of their bank boxes? Or is that too tricky?  😂

Or let them share their feedback here on the forums. Too tricky again?

Baby steps, you know. Doesn't take much to see it. But some tend to have no faith in people and only see bad people everywhere. May god bless their hearts.

I hope EA puts some pressure on when they see UO F2P isnt bringing in much new revenue. I really hope...

From what I understand is that returning players using the EJ system can take out stuff out but can not put it back, if that is true then there is no problem.  As far as being able to post I agree there should be a way to post in a EJ Thread only.  UO F2P is not what this is, it is an unlimited time trial account with more perks than the old trial accounts.  There is not enough things in the store that would come close to making this a F2P system.

jaytin said:

It makes no sense to me, they talked about this 'vault' months before at the Anniversary party, it was well documented at that time, so what did they do? Forget about it?! They should have delayed the launch until they thought things through, it's not like they paid for advertising or anything, they didn't even invite journalists to the 20th Anniversary! 

At one point they tried to argue that this is a "soft launch" they are doing...

I don't buy that personally, but well, that's what they said... 

As for the party, they didn't even care to stream it for the 99% of their customers not being able to go there. But that's Bonnie's style. As long as there are 10 people kissing her rear end, she is fine with it.

Someone over on that other forum made a good point. Totally new players that never paid them a penny have a usable bank, limited but usable, people who previously paid for their account can't use their bank at all because it's full of stuff stored from their house when they left. 
Another person made a good suggestion, why can't people assign a chest in their home to help an EJ friend, just put a reasonable weight limit on it to discourage script miners filling it with ore.
I'm pretty sure some basement kid could come up with ten ways to fix this storage problem. 

For the record, the issue with overflowing bank does not apply solely to people who have paid money. It is an issue for ALL endless journey accounts that, for whatever reason, end up with a bank that has more than 20 items. Yes, it is vet accounts that come back to a full bank, but it can also happen to a fresh account. Farming miasma with an overweight pack and the arty drop is sent to your full bank? BAM, now you're screwed. Claimed a SS token but forgot to leave a slot open for it in the bank? OOPS.

I am sure the devs are aware of these issues, and I am also sure some sort of fix is in the works.

Oh I didn't realise items were sent to the bank if your pack was full! I see how that could be a problem.