Which expansion is your favorite?

T2A

That would be the High Seas. Arrr!!

AmberWitch said:

Could you possibly post links to what each of those expansions offered? My old brain refuses to remember what some of those older expansions provided. Thanks!

I have a hard time deciding wether I love SA more that HS. they are both amazing and enjoy the content even now

ya HS and SA are both great expansions for sure AoS and then ML was the worst tho

Taming revamp.

I don't have a favourite, is that allowed? 😂

LBR was kind of a crappy expansion thrown together from leftover chunks of the cancelled UO2 project (at least partly in order to avoid EA being sued by Todd McFarlane) but it did mark the period in which I maintain that the game was at its all-time peak. Post publish 16, pre AOS.

^^^

AoS first then taming revamp.   I like to kill the heck out of stuff, not just fool, around.

Mariah said:

@ AmberWitch In brief, just the main points.

2nd Age was the addition of Lost Lands

Renaisance was the introduction of Trammel

3rd Dawn was the first attempt at a new client, and only users of that client had access to Ilshenar

Lord Blackthorn's Revenge opened up Ilshenar to the rest of the player base

Age of Shadows brought the addition of Malas and the new combat system, giving us 'numbers and formulas' instead of names on our weapons and armor. Added Chivalry and Necromancy

Samurai Empire added Tokuno, Bushido and Ninjitsu.

Mondains Legacy added elves, new quests and the peerless encounters.

Stygian Abyss added the abyss, Ter Mur, Gargoyles as a playable race, Imbuing, throwing, Mysticism and a vast number of quests.

High Seas was a booster pack rather than an expansion, totally focused on the seas.

Time of Legends added Eodon and the dinosaurs.

@ Victim_of_Siege - Play nice!

Yes Ma'am.

Personal Favourite was Mondains Legacy - I had always felt my magic users and archers should be elves. The Peerless bosses were cool.

I do not remember when they completed the Virtues, but that took a long time for them to finish, but that was another great part of the game, so completing an Elvin mage avatar, was about as good as it got for me.

Second favourite, Stygian Abyss. Underworld, and Stygian Abyss are in fact a work of art with their level of content, and the entire Imbuing system was fantastic, and logical, after all the random luck and chaos that had preceded via Reforging.

Unfortunately, Imbuing introduced Brittle, a horrific attribute, I could never understand why the Devs always felt they had to give with 1 hand, and take away with the other, in a fake semblance of "this maintains some sort of balance".

Age of Shadows - worst at the time - I even quit for 8 years after that one. Although Chivalry, and Necromancy skills were cool, it gave rise to the Sampire (with the next expansion), and UO was a Dexxer game ever since then.

Worst, Renaissance - in the long term.
When Trammel first came, I don't think anyone could have realised it would cause all the ingame issues it has today though. Unlimited scripting, no risk vs reward, destroyed the economy and 90% of the point of the entire game. There should have been no loot in Trammel, it should have had deco drops only, and been a character training, socialising and housing area only.

Lord Blackthorns Revenge was cool, but I remember it with disappointment that Illshenar was only in Trammel, the realisation then was that the game had given up. From then, I rarely went into Trammel, unless huge risk free reward events enticed me.

When most games introduce a new race, I usually groan, and that race is the new must-have OP race going etc etc, it does get boring, but UO managed to introduce both of its new races inside very good expansions. They did make the gargoyles too over-powered, then nerfed them pretty much instantly, and made their new race the weakest ever since then, only UO could do that... Of course, Gargs, and partially elves, with their different equipment, then gave the Devs a longer term armour consistency problem - another learning curve for the Devs.

Eodon barely raised an eyebrow, which is a little unfair to it. It was in Trammel, and by this stage, most players I know, were not the slightest bit interested in Trammel. Although of course it had roof, and the new artifacts, so that created a great grind. Eodon is judged unfairly I think though, in that it does have some decent content there, just most players cannot be bothered to leave Felucca to go there. Another learning point - I do not think No recall zones help, players do want ease of travel, I don't think UO needs to be scared of diminishing it's content by having quick travel, as it has so much content.

The issue with High Sea's, again, is most players just do not have that sort of time on their hands to play this content. Again - I'm sure, that is a decent expansion - I have it, but have never played it to know. Make the ships 5 x Faster, and we may have a game on our hands. 🙂

Cookie said:

Personal Favourite was Mondains Legacy - I had always felt my magic users and archers should be elves. The Peerless bosses were cool.

Second favourite, Stygian Abyss. Underworld, and Stygian Abyss are in fact a work of art with their level of content, and the entire Imbuing system was fantastic, and logical, after all the random luck and chaos that had preceded via Reforging.

Unfortunately, Imbuing introduced Brittle, a horrific attribute, I could never understand why the Devs always felt they had to give with 1 hand, and take away with the other, in a fake semblance of "this maintains some sort of balance".

Age of Shadows - worst at the time - I even quit for 8 years after that one. Although Chivalry, and Necromancy skills were cool, it gave rise to the Sampire, and UO was a Dexxer game ever since then.

Worst, Renaissance - in the long term.
When Trammel first came, I don't think anyone could have realised it would cause all the ingame issues it has today though. Unlimited scripting, no risk vs reward, destroyed the economy and 90% of the point of the entire game. There should have been no loot in Trammel, it should have had deco drops only, and been a character training, socialising or housing area only.

Lord Blackthorns Revenge was cool, but I remember it with disappointment that Illshenar was only in Trammel, the realisation then was that the game had given up. From then, I rarely went into Trammel, unless huge risk free reward events enticed me.

CovenantX said:

   I agree with the majority of this.

  I'd say that the scripting part is the worst part to come from all of this, lack of rule enforcement has amplified it drastically though, and personally, that's killing UO for me.    the cheat programs people are using today are nothing like the ones that literally did next to nothing of 10-15 years ago.

 Overall, I'd say that's a pretty good summary of how I would describe it, based on my experiences as well.

I think on a base level, we sometimes agree, however my viewpoint has now changed to that of the old days.

I think 20 years on, the world has changed, and what used to be the realm of an unethical rogue programmer, is now open to everyone, along with some amazing things that can be done.

I take the view these days, that society embraces this new technology, we all try to make our lives easier, and gaming is often at the forefront of it all.

I have 2 sons, and 1 has a genuine interest in coding. The interaction between UO and coding, or many other games, such as Minecraft and coding, is one that kids these days enjoy, immerse themselves in, and these are skills they could very well need as they get older.

In many of the kids games, the emphasis has gone away from "you play our game", to, you are part of a huge community, and "you can create your own games, or your own maps, your own concepts", within the framework. 

I find these days, the fact these abilities are open to everyone, is a great leveller. And ultimately, in all sports, I want an equal playing field. 

I do not think we can keep talking about Cheating anymore. It is progression in todays world.

Deleted. Trust me, you wanted this deleted. 🙂

Mariah said:

@ AmberWitch In brief, just the main points.

2nd Age was the addition of Lost Lands

Renaisance was the introduction of Trammel

3rd Dawn was the first attempt at a new client, and only users of that client had access to Ilshenar

Lord Blackthorn's Revenge opened up Ilshenar to the rest of the player base

Age of Shadows brought the addition of Malas and the new combat system, giving us 'numbers and formulas' instead of names on our weapons and armor. Added Chivalry and Necromancy

Samurai Empire added Tokuno, Bushido and Ninjitsu.

Mondains Legacy added elves, new quests and the peerless encounters.

Stygian Abyss added the abyss, Ter Mur, Gargoyles as a playable race, Imbuing, throwing, Mysticism and a vast number of quests.

High Seas was a booster pack rather than an expansion, totally focused on the seas.

Time of Legends added Eodon and the dinosaurs.

@ Victim_of_Siege - Play nice!

As you can guess by my picture, UO Renaissance.

Renaissance because it gave us Trammel.  I detest PvP and would have stopped playing UO if Trammel had not come along.

^^^^^

Cookie said:

When Trammel first came, I don't think anyone could have realised it would cause all the ingame issues it has today though. Unlimited scripting, no risk vs reward, destroyed the economy and 90% of the point of the entire game. There should have been no loot in Trammel, it should have had deco drops only, and been a character training, socialising and housing area only.

The game would have shut down twenty years ago if you were in charge. There's a reason every would-be successor game that hyped itself as "recapturing the magic of oldschool UO" was some kind of miserable flop.

Lord_Nythrax said:

Cookie said:

When Trammel first came, I don't think anyone could have realised it would cause all the ingame issues it has today though. Unlimited scripting, no risk vs reward, destroyed the economy and 90% of the point of the entire game. There should have been no loot in Trammel, it should have had deco drops only, and been a character training, socialising and housing area only.

The game would have shut down twenty years ago if you were in charge. There's a reason every would-be successor game that hyped itself as "recapturing the magic of oldschool UO" was a miserable failure that died pretty much immediately.

There has been would-be successor games to UO? Like what I never heard of any before

Sure, there were a number of games that touted themselves that way, all with a heavy focus on unrestricted PVP. The most prominent one I can think of was Shadowbane. That one lived a whole six years. There were several others but I can't even remember the names offhand anymore.

Lord_Nythrax said:

Sure, there were a number of games that touted themselves that way, all with a heavy focus on unrestricted PVP. The most prominent one I can think of was Shadowbane. That one lived a whole six years. There were several others but I can't even remember the names offhand anymore.

Fortnite with 390 million active players is doing pretty badly for a 100% pvp game I suppose.

For an almost direct, and certainly inferior game - Old School RuneScape which stuck to its PvP principals with 49 million players is also doing far worse than UO.

Fact of the matter is, pvp is popular, and successful.

Cookie said:

Lord_Nythrax said:

Sure, there were a number of games that touted themselves that way, all with a heavy focus on unrestricted PVP. The most prominent one I can think of was Shadowbane. That one lived a whole six years. There were several others but I can't even remember the names offhand anymore.

Fortnite with 390 million active players is doing pretty badly for a 100% pvp game I suppose.

For an almost direct, and certainly inferior game - Old School RuneScape which stuck to its PvP principals with 49 million players is also doing far worse than UO.

Fact of the matter is, pvp is popular, and successful.

LMAO  Maybe you should read about a game before posting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortnite

Cookie said:

Fortnite with 390 million active players is doing pretty badly for a 100% pvp game I suppose,

Fortnite is a shooter LMAO. You may as well have brought up Counterstrike or something.

For an almost direct, and certainly inferior game - Old School RuneScape which stuck to its PvP principals with 49 million players is also doing far worse than UO

Oldschool Runescape has a total of 221 worlds according to the wiki. As far as I can tell only 17 PVP worlds exist, and at least five of them are switched off at any given time according to a scheduled rotation. Really grasping at straws here.

Fact of the matter is, pvp is popular, and successful.

He said as the tumbleweeds blew through Felucca for the 24th year in a row.

My favorites were UOR for Trammel and Third Dawn for Ilshenar, though maybe technically LBR since that’s what made Ilshenar available for 2D.

 😂 

Cookie said:

Deleted. Trust me, you wanted this deleted. 🙂

   I didn't want it deleted, cause now I don't know what your response was/would have been!

Cookie said:

Lord_Nythrax said:

Sure, there were a number of games that touted themselves that way, all with a heavy focus on unrestricted PVP. The most prominent one I can think of was Shadowbane. That one lived a whole six years. There were several others but I can't even remember the names offhand anymore.

Fact of the matter is, pvp is popular, and successful.

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

Deleted. Trust me, you wanted this deleted. 🙂

   I didn't want it deleted, cause now I don't know what your response was/would have been!

Cookie said:

Lord_Nythrax said:

Sure, there were a number of games that touted themselves that way, all with a heavy focus on unrestricted PVP. The most prominent one I can think of was Shadowbane. That one lived a whole six years. There were several others but I can't even remember the names offhand anymore.

Fact of the matter is, pvp is popular, and successful.

   I wouldn't go so far as to say that... the massive imbalance that Parry is causing, on top of rampant third-party client use (which heavily favors hard-to-kill templates),  pvp isn't very popular or successful on official shards right now.

 

  I would agree if it were about 10-15 years ago, pvp was very popular, you gotta be smoking something pretty damn good, to have that be your honest opinion nowadays though.

 Non-pvpers can play the way they want, until they start advocating for changes that would damage pvp or fel, and it's the same for pvpers when it comes to asking for changes to things that have negative affects on non-pvpers/areas as well.

 Anyway, to the topic,  I would say I had the most fun also happens to be when I played UO the most,  from around the release of the LBR expansion up until publish 46 so many fights between factions, just random pvp & champ spawns when they were introduced, pvp of course did pick up again within a month or so, after everyone adjusted their templates to the tactics requirements for specials.

.   Then I'd say SA (imbuing) really leveled the playing field in terms of gear accessibility for everyone (which imo, doesn't really do much beyond the few 'essential property caps', nothing like it does now with global loot), everyone had access to the top-tier suits if they went through the trouble of building it, or having someone else build a suit for them.    pvp was absolutely hopping between LS & GL (Atl always is) as the 3 shards I played the most.   I played a little on chessy too, but only had a necro-mage there, I get bored playing the same char/template all the time.        I was just talking to @ sibble about it yesterday.

Aside from SA's introduction of Imbuing,  I don't think I'd attribute it directly to the expansions I listed and the ones that were released within the time-frame, but mostly because of the amount of players, thus pvp-action during those times.

ahh, the note was not to you, it was to the mods. 🙂
I was showing you a really cool application made by a cheat client that is helping make the game fun for players. I thought you had seen it, then I deleted it, before the mods could. 🙂

Re PvP - I meant PvP in general, as a concept, if UO had not given up on it completely.
I still maintain parry is not the problem, it is the symptom of the problem.
To fix the problem itself, damage output for warriors and mage classes, needs to use different mechanics and formulas against players than monsters - of course they try this a little with certain caps, but they are not enough, the fact is, warriors can often put out 10 times more damage than the spellcasters - who are meant to be the squishy damage classes wearing cloth and using their magics. Warriors are meant to be more tanky, with less damage, but they have blown that one apart, they have it all. Re Parry - I would like nothing more than Mages to be free'd up from the need to use Parry, so they can add in another Pure Mage skill, and be a lot more fun to play.

So re PvP in general, I meant, PvP in general. Fortnite is a pvp game, it does not matter how it is packaged up, it is the mentality of the players - those who want the most fun and excitement playing against other players within any game setting. Certain people are very small minded, and are determined to focus things through a very small lens, and keep UO in that place, it does not have to be. When it comes to game mechanics, pvp players, enjoy UO pvp at its best, when it works.

Right now in pvp - the main issue for me, is the dismounting, this is almost an IWIN button. But maybe I have to live with it, adapt...

Factions of course, was the best time, the teamwork, the friendships, but I was not sure which expansion that was. 🙂

In general, even in the worst expansions, there has been a lot of good content, it is really only a couple of critical points that have affected the game. In your mind - cheating/scripting - in my mind - Trammel that paved the way for all of that. I look at causes, not symptoms. AoS, had 2 great skills, Necro and Chivalry, Samurai Empire skills and content were a lot of fun - all they ever needed to do was kill off Sampires - do not let them happen, and let warriors progress in that direction. Instead, they let Sampires dominate the entire narrative of the game, while warriors, and mages died out completely. They have made small inroads into this in more recent times, but the problem is almost, a bit like the 3rd party programs, Sampires have taken too much of a hold, everyone has them, and has invested time into them - I would still, even at this stage, burn sampires out of the game, and improve warrior healing and mage damage output.

This is why I believe Broadsword are building New Legacy, it allows them to learn from a few of their mistakes with UO, and try and get the right, from the start. But me personally, would take a hatchet to the current UO, and fix it from within. I would fix Sampires, I would fix warriors and mages, I would fix Trammel, I would probably fix crafting and looting, and then pvp. 🙂 I would also fix classic client, and probably wind Enhanced client down. I don't think UO should stand still in maintenance mode, I think it should not be afraid to become the best version of itself.

For all the criticism, I think it is important to say something really obvious we all forget when we are criticizing, UO is actually still one of the best games out there, and no-one should forget this. My boys play all the latest games, including Fortnite, where 1 is an elite ranking, and they play UO, which goes head to head. UO has content like no other. My frustration comes from the fact they do not rebalance a lot of the game, to make it all work hand in hand. Upgrade, re-distribute old loot. I do not even think they have to break certain loot caps, just change the systems of delivery. Spread it out through the dungeons, the current content etc - I know they say this is hard, I really struggle to understand that reason.

My daft elite ranking Fortnite playing son, loves collecting statues in UO... 80% of the statues are hidden in Vet rewards, which now vanish in IDOCS. Something so simple, yet so hard to get? Surely, those statues, should in some way be dispersed throughout the game, from those mobs themselves. It's not like a statue is an OP item. There are some great statues out there still available - Medusa, from Medusa, the Poseidon statue from the Pirates - they make a lot of sense, that is how it should be. Earth Elemental statue from a Vet reward... ? That does not make sense.

Lord_Nythrax said:

These guys don't seem to have the ambition to make meaningful mechanical changes anymore, so instead we get this kind of cargo cult version of game balance enforced through content updates. Whenever they add something that involves PVM combat, they pick one or two templates out of a hat and then design the encounter such that those templates are almost totally worthless.

Oh this one will be immune to life leech. This one does extra damage to pets. This one will suck in archers every single time they hit it. Whatever. When you don't really understand the game well enough to balance it, but still want to avoid having players complain about how one template does everything, all you can do is make sure every template gets a big dumb monkey wrench thrown in its face every so often.

Like any time things are immune to life leech, I may as well log out or go do something else. On the other hand, I like running Doom, but I don't dare bring anyone down there who's an archer or a mage or something. It's literally easier to solo than to have the Dark Father chasing them around every time they do any damage.

IMHO they should have decoupled chivalry from necromancy a long time ago. Make chivalry spells stop working while you're in necro form, or something like that. Then maybe give those paladin macers they've been soft-pushing an extra nudge somehow. I don't know the template well enough to really comment. But yeah, split melee off into chivless sampires and necro-free pally macers. Then at least there's two good melee templates and they both make at least a little thematic sense.

Disclaimer: I play a chivless sampire just because I want to. Devs pls nerf everyone but me kthxbye.

Necro leeches should scale off spirt speak level ..

I thought that the game was the most fun at launch and as some of the other new servers were being brought online like Sonoma (which I left Pacific for to start on shard birth). I know the open PvP was very controversial, and I still some times go back to Google groups and read over some of the old 1997-1998 USENET discussion threads (rec.games.computer.ultima.online) where this was heavily debated - and often joined by Raph Koster (Designer Dragon) and other OSI folks. I still believe it added the thing that made it truly frustrating, and exciting at the same time. 

After that, probably Second Age, which I got to beta test. In fact, we placed a house just outside the east gate of Delucia which was removed the next day by GMs

Cookie said:

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

Deleted. Trust me, you wanted this deleted. 🙂

   I didn't want it deleted, cause now I don't know what your response was/would have been!

ahh, the note was not to you, it was to the mods. 🙂
I was showing you a really cool application made by a cheat client that is helping make the game fun for players. I thought you had seen it, then I deleted it, before the mods could. 🙂

   Ahh, fair enough

CovenantX said:

   

Well, the real problem is the amount of mods an entire suit can achieve caps (both hard & soft caps) the part where we seem to disagree is that  Parry (imo -and it's been done in the past) should be nerfed, instead of rebalancing the entire loot system again.    *This does not include upgrading old reward items that currenty drop, finish the revamps of doom, look at which items people very rarely or never use, from peerless/replicas,  shadowguard, underwater etc. and buff the underused ones, but there has to be attention paid to what people actually like, and don't throw random mods on an item where none of them are good, because no one would use it still.

Parry has been nerfed before yes, a few times, and what did it achieve?

Nothing, it is more popular than ever.

Now you have to be asking why, and what did happen as a result of the nerfs.

What happened? Pure mages took a complete hit, and became unviable in pvp. So did anything without parry.

Why? Because as I sat at the gate on Test Centre, and explained to Bleak, mages cannot physically give up parry, they need it too much (Dismount and massive instant warrior damage ripped mages apart whilst completely stunned). So he did 100% the opposite and introduced some killer nerfs, that nerfed pure mages out of pvp, it was intended to dissuade mages from using parry, and they clung to parry like never before... Because they absolutely had to in order to survive. 

The real solution, is deal with the issues that are forcing mages to cling to parry. And this is coming from a pvper, who runs about 5 parry mages with his sons, who desperately wants to drop parry and pick up a more fun pure mage skill - be it scribe, alchemy, poison, spellweaving, whatever. I even want the same thing as you, AS A MAGE. But I cannot, I've tried it many times, the end result is a disaster, and every pvper out there is laughing at me for trying. I'm the awkward stubborn pvper who actually tries it. 🙂

you must be the only one who thought it became more fun.
i think losing pure mages was bit of a killer blow to pvp tbh.

except now that you can easily reach 100+ dex without giving up HP or enough mana to make the difference,

As a warrior you can yes, as a mage you cannot, mage armour lags quite a long way behind what warriors can achieve. And as I've said many times, warriors have far more use for all the free stats they are given. I cannot achieve enough mana on my mages, and yes indeed, warriors can achieve about as much mana as my mages can, this is wrong... What use is extra Dex to me? Extra mana to you, is fuelling more OP specials.

CovenantX said:

Pure mages were all over the place when Parry was nerfed for mages the first time, wtf are you talking about lol

This has not happened in the last 30 years.
What dimension are you talking about? The Spidey Multiverse Cartoon dimension? 🙂
I suppose to be more fair, I ought to ask, which year, and which nerf are you thinking of?


Ok, another question - you nerf Parry - how do you propose to, and what do you expect will happen as a result?

Cookie said:

you must be the only one who thought it became more fun.
i think losing pure mages was bit of a killer blow to pvp tbh.

except now that you can easily reach 100+ dex without giving up HP or enough mana to make the difference,

As a warrior you can yes, as a mage you cannot, mage armour lags quite a long way behind what warriors can achieve. And as I've said many times, warriors have far more use for all the free stats they are given. I cannot achieve enough mana on my mages, and yes indeed, warriors can achieve about as much mana as my mages can, this is wrong... What use is extra Dex to me? Extra mana to you, is fuelling more OP specials.

the only nerf to parry that did anything was causing it to require 80 dex before you could reforge and find +dex items in loot (not just jewelry like it used to be).   Dexers didn't become any better or worse with that parry nerf, but it took away the defensive bonuses of parry/evade from mages, which were the problem back then because they had something that made them better defensively & due to the reduced 'hits' taken, better offensively from fewer interruptions, and are currently the problem now... Shocker, i know, it's not like we haven't seen it before.

And you only conveniently forgot Mages lost Spell Damage...
Please stop with the 1 sided arguments.

CovenantX said:

The only time in history parry was nerfed was in Publish 46.

and it was only nerfed by adding the stat requirements of 80 dex to gain the full benefit.

It was done in order to reduce the effectiveness of Mages using Parry, because they were too powerful, obviously, like they are today.

So nerfing Parry had no effect?

Like I said it would have no effect?

Are you sure Parry is the problem?

Do we keep nerfing it?

CovenantX said:

What do you think the devs' rationale was, when they made Parry count against Focus spec?

Their rationale was, exactly the same as you, they misunderstood the problem.

But, they proceeded anyway, because they wanted to FORCE mages to drop parry.

It failed.

Rather than fixing anything, they just tried to strong-arm mages out of using parry, as I have explained many many times, it could not work, because Mages had no other option, they needed to be given a fix, or another option.

Cookie said:

CovenantX said:

The only time in history parry was nerfed was in Publish 46.

and it was only nerfed by adding the stat requirements of 80 dex to gain the full benefit.

It was done in order to reduce the effectiveness of Mages using Parry, because they were too powerful, obviously, like they are today.

So nerfing Parry had no effect?

Like I said it would have no effect?

Are you sure Parry is the problem?

Do we keep nerfing it?

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

CovenantX said:

The only time in history parry was nerfed was in Publish 46.

and it was only nerfed by adding the stat requirements of 80 dex to gain the full benefit.

It was done in order to reduce the effectiveness of Mages using Parry, because they were too powerful, obviously, like they are today.

So nerfing Parry had no effect?

Like I said it would have no effect?

Are you sure Parry is the problem?

Do we keep nerfing it?

   it did have an effect, people dropped parry and there were all different mages, and dexers weren't obsolete, did you not play back then?  cause it looks like you weren't around back when it was an issue before.

  Parry only needs one nerf, it needs to not be usable at full capacity when paired with Magery.  that's it.      it worked before, but as I said, now dex requirement isn't a meaningful trade-off anymore, because of massive powercreep.. and the issue has returned.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that back when global loot was coming out (when most of us were only using stratics).   I'm not some clairvoyant, but next to some of you it might seem that way.

similarly, I said adding Parry to focus spec isn't going to make people drop parry.  it's just going to make them do slightly less damage, and still be as close to unkillable (vs dexers) as they've always been.

I was there.

I remember everyone quitting pvp, losing many long term pvp friends, and dexxers completely taking over and all mages quitting.

The balance has never been restored, and now we have the insult of warriors adding in magery because they can do so much, and using boks, and even calling themselves mages.

Genuine question: What's the purpose of PVP in UO today? Like, what exactly is at stake? Isn't the "real" PVP on private shards anyway?

I'm legitimately ignorant here. The only thing I know about PVP today is what I see in general chat on Atlantic.The devs could spend the next several years turning knobs to adjust this or that, but if it's all just slapping contests, is it really worth it?

loop said:

Genuine question: What's the purpose of PVP in UO today? Like, what exactly is at stake? Isn't the "real" PVP on private shards anyway?

I'm legitimately ignorant here. The only thing I know about PVP today is what I see in general chat on Atlantic.The devs could spend the next several years turning knobs to adjust this or that, but if it's all just slapping contests, is it really worth it?

Guys, an interesting discussion, but somewhat off the topic of the thread. Could you maybe continue elsewhere? Make a new thread if you want to.

UOR Renaissance  Without it UO would have died and it kept me playing

Age of DODO was the worse because it changed UO into an item based system.