Bait update

Rather than bait for rare fish we need bait for the fish we need to catch for the monger quest I'd kill for tarpon or dungeon chub bait..

I spent five hours a day for three days trying to catch Shovel-Nosed Lobsters for a monger quest.  And the only way to destroy the quest crate is, I'm assuming, pull everything out of my hold and drydock the ship.  And the "everything" in my hold is a bunch of 10 stone fish.

Feigr said:

I spent five hours a day for three days trying to catch Shovel-Nosed Lobsters for a monger quest.  And the only way to destroy the quest crate is, I'm assuming, pull everything out of my hold and drydock the ship.  And the "everything" in my hold is a bunch of 10 stone fish.

Either I'm going to have to commodity deed it all and hope fish can be or I'll have to finish these two monger quests for crabs and lobster and just take it right up the ass if I get another one.  Right up there.  All the way.  Elbow deep.  No spit or anything.  In b4 mods.

What I meant to say is... this game is great.  It's fun to "play."  Maybe I'll just "play" a dozen EJ accounts like everyone else.  That sounds like a bunch of fun.

well, i experimented and there's no way to delete a fish crate except re-deeding the ship.Thought I had it, but it came back a minute later.

*edit* just resign from that quest

When the content came out, Players would sell the different fish.  There is probably someone on your shard that has plenty.

You resigned the quest

Pawain said:

When the content came out, Players would sell the different fish.  There is probably someone on your shard that has plenty.

We want to fish not buy stuff 

Grimbeard said:

You resigned the quest

Yep, just looked and saw the quest. and as @Pawain said someone probably has some on your shard, or @Feigr just get quests in other towns until you have them.

Victim_Of_Siege said:

Feigr said:

I spent five hours a day for three days trying to catch Shovel-Nosed Lobsters for a monger quest.  And the only way to destroy the quest crate is, I'm assuming, pull everything out of my hold and drydock the ship.  And the "everything" in my hold is a bunch of 10 stone fish.

Either I'm going to have to commodity deed it all and hope fish can be or I'll have to finish these two monger quests for crabs and lobster and just take it right up the ass if I get another one.  Right up there.  All the way.  Elbow deep.  No spit or anything.  In b4 mods.

What I meant to say is... this game is great.  It's fun to "play."  Maybe I'll just "play" a dozen EJ accounts like everyone else.  That sounds like a bunch of fun.

well, i experimented and there's no way to delete a fish crate except re-deeding the ship.Thought I had it, but it came back a minute later.

*edit* just resign from that quest

That worked, thanks!  There's only two commodity deeds for lobster on my shard and they are just "lobster" and way overpriced.

Grimbeard said:

Pawain said:

When the content came out, Players would sell the different fish.  There is probably someone on your shard that has plenty.

We want to fish not buy stuff 

Since there are 42 different fish, you have 2.38% change for a specific one. Keep fishing and keep what you get, you will eventually have hundreds of everything.

Or you can wish for 42 different baits and complain you never get the specific one you want.

Grimbeard said:

Rather than bait for rare fish we need bait for the fish we need to catch for the monger quest I'd kill for tarpon or dungeon chub bait..

I thought I posted this already, (probably did in another thread) but my thoughts are maybe they could sell "Fish maps" (like somone sometime back has probably said a fwew times) that creates a "school" of fish for 20 minutes, give or take. sell them on the pirate vendor for 150,000 Doubloons. 

*apologies if I posted this already,I've been awake for 24 hours*

Pawain said:

Grimbeard said:

Pawain said:

When the content came out, Players would sell the different fish.  There is probably someone on your shard that has plenty.

We want to fish not buy stuff 

Since there are 42 different fish, you have 2.38% change for a specific one. Keep fishing and keep what you get, you will eventually have hundreds of everything.

Or you can wish for 42 different baits and complain you never get the specific one you want.

While there are a lot of different fish, you have some control over what you catch already by fishing in the right area.  Crustaceans don't really have a region, but fish do.  You'll catch specific fish if you're fishing from land/dock or deep sea.  So your statistics aren't entirely correct. 

You're also assuming every fish has an equal chance to be caught.  With crustaceans, I suspect this isn't the case.

Just got this quest. Realistically, how long do you think it would take to fish / trap this order?

AmberWitch said:

Just got this quest. Realistically, how long do you think it would take to fish / trap this order?

Well with the long trip to moonglow harbor..

Brat.

AmberWitch said:

Just got this quest. Realistically, how long do you think it would take to fish / trap this order?

about 3 hours and 50 minutes

Grimbeard said:

AmberWitch said:

Just got this quest. Realistically, how long do you think it would take to fish / trap this order?

Well with the long trip to moonglow harbor..

Moon Glow* LOL

AmberWitch said:

...

Smallmouth Bass: Has less chance of being caught than other shore fish and appears in fish monger quests more often than others. All fish aren't created equally.

...

Honestly, I don't think there is any rarity to the shore fish, or any of the fish.

I started a macro this morning, let it run for 2 hrs and 15 min and this was the distribution:


That's pretty even already, but as you approach 1000 or so of each fish, the distribution is likely to equalize further. As you can see, Smallmouth Bass (upper right) were basically the most average catch (for me, this morning)!

RNGesus just dislikes you Amber!


These results are consistent with all my other experiences fishing, whether it be shore, deep, dungeon, or crab/lobster. It doesn't appear to me that there is any actual "coded" rarity in catch rates.

It also seems unlikely there is actual rarity to the fish requested by the monger quests. However, "coded" rarity vs. real life luck just sucking and handing you the quest for the same fish 5 or 6 times in a row, that is totally possible (and yes, I have experienced this -- freaking Hummer Lobster. Every. Damn. Time.). 

I collect fish that I may need for the quests if I ever end up doing quests.  Here are the numbers of each fish and crab/lobster I've gotten over the years.

188	Cape Cod
184	Gray Snapper
181	Shad
179	Black Seabass
176	Blue Grouper
175	Amberjack
174	Mahi-Mahi
173	Bluefish
166	Red Grouper
160	Red Drum
159	Tarpon
156	Haddock
154	Red Snook
153	Captain Snook
151	Cobia
149	Yellowfin Tuna
144	Bonefish
140	Bonito
126	Grim Cisco
115	Orc Bass
109	Dungeon Chub
108	Lurker Fish
108	Snaggletooth Bass
105	Cutthroat Trout
104	Crag Snapper
103	Smallmouth Bass
102	Tormented Pike
99	Demon Trout
98	Darkfish
90	Brook Trout
90	Rainbow Trout
89	Kokanee Salmon
89	Yellow Perch
86	Drake Fish
86	Redbelly Bream
81	Bluegill Sunfish
81	Walleye
75	Green Catfish
74	Pumpkinseed Sunfish
70	Infernal Tuna
67	Uncommon Shiner
44	Pike

146	Crab
140	Crab
138	Lobster
132	Lobster
46	Fred Lobster
42	King Crab
33	Hummer Lobster
32	Dungeness Crab
31	Snow Crab
30	Apple Crab
29	Crusty Lobster
29	Rock Crab
21	Blue Crab
19	Spiney Lobster
15	Shovel-Nose Lobster
13	Rock Lobster

TimSt said:

I collect fish that I may need for the quests if I ever end up doing quests.  Here are the numbers of each fish and crab/lobster I've gotten over the years.

188	Cape Cod
184	Gray Snapper
181	Shad
179	Black Seabass
176	Blue Grouper
175	Amberjack
174	Mahi-Mahi
173	Bluefish
166	Red Grouper
160	Red Drum
159	Tarpon
156	Haddock
154	Red Snook
153	Captain Snook
151	Cobia
149	Yellowfin Tuna
144	Bonefish
140	Bonito
126	Grim Cisco
115	Orc Bass
109	Dungeon Chub
108	Lurker Fish
108	Snaggletooth Bass
105	Cutthroat Trout
104	Crag Snapper
103	Smallmouth Bass
102	Tormented Pike
99	Demon Trout
98	Darkfish
90	Brook Trout
90	Rainbow Trout
89	Kokanee Salmon
89	Yellow Perch
86	Drake Fish
86	Redbelly Bream
81	Bluegill Sunfish
81	Walleye
75	Green Catfish
74	Pumpkinseed Sunfish
70	Infernal Tuna
67	Uncommon Shiner
44	Pike

146	Crab
140	Crab
138	Lobster
132	Lobster
46	Fred Lobster
42	King Crab
33	Hummer Lobster
32	Dungeness Crab
31	Snow Crab
30	Apple Crab
29	Crusty Lobster
29	Rock Crab
21	Blue Crab
19	Spiney Lobster
15	Shovel-Nose Lobster
13	Rock Lobster

I had surgery last year and forgot one boat in water losing thousands of fish 

AmberWitch said:

Just got this quest. Realistically, how long do you think it would take to fish / trap this order?

Since my fishing macro is running on another monitor, I've had time to try to work through how long it might actually take to fill an order, just as a general guideline.

Let's assume we're using 1 account, the distribution of catch is even (no "coded" rarity"), and we get about 1 fish per 10 seconds.

I'm going to go with 1 fish in 10 seconds because that's what my fishing macros run and that timing makes the math much easier. Yes, you can actually fish every 8 seconds, but by the time you deal with footwear, messes of small fish, and changing locations, the average is a bit slower. This timing also holds for me regardless of the fish type I'm going for: shore, deep, dungeon, or crab/lobster. (This timing is for once you're setup for each category. It does take a while to get to that point.)

With that, let's do some math.
1 fish in 10 seconds
6 fish in 1 minute
240 fish in 40 min
320 fish in 53.33 min
360 fish in 60 min

If the distribution of catch is even:
20 of each of the 12 shore fish should take 40 min
20 of each of the 12 dungeon fish should take 40 min
20 of each of the 16 crab/lobster should take 53.33 min
20 of each of the 18 deepwater fish should take 60 min

There will be a bunch of variation here, and setting up for different fishing types, etc., but let's say getting a distribution of 20 of each fish category, takes about an hour per category.

So, for your order above, there are only 2 categories: dungeon and crab/lobster.

It should take, realistically, about 2 hours to fill.

Hey, you asked! 

Feigr said:

You're making assumptions.  Your macro won't work on crustaceans unless it's not allowed.  What skill are you fishing at? Also, the timing of fish and traps are different. 

My macros (EC) work on crab/lobster just fine.

120 Fishing skill. 

The timing on crab/lobster is dependent on how you lay out your lines. I setup my lines so I pull/replace every 10 seconds continuously. 

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Feigr said:

You're making assumptions.  Your macro won't work on crustaceans unless it's not allowed.  What skill are you fishing at? Also, the timing of fish and traps are different. 

My macros (EC) work on crab/lobster just fine.

120 Fishing skill. 

The timing on crab/lobster is dependent on how you lay out your lines. I setup my lines so I pull/replace every 10 seconds continuously. 

How're you macro'ing traps that are RNG in EC?  And 120 skill at fishing isn't realistic.  People are doing this to get the 120 scrolls.

Feigr said:

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Feigr said:

You're making assumptions.  Your macro won't work on crustaceans unless it's not allowed.  What skill are you fishing at? Also, the timing of fish and traps are different. 

My macros (EC) work on crab/lobster just fine.

120 Fishing skill. 

The timing on crab/lobster is dependent on how you lay out your lines. I setup my lines so I pull/replace every 10 seconds continuously. 

How're you macro'ing traps that are RNG in EC?  And 120 skill at fishing isn't realistic.  People are doing this to get the 120 scrolls.

I'm on my 5th trip through and fish daily for quest with 120 fishing however I disagree with the assumption that all fish have an equal chance at being caught 

Pretty sure I'm still doing fishmonger quests at 120.0.

Yes, I earned that 120.0 fishing scroll myself doing the quests. Been a number of years now, but I've actually gotten a couple of them (120's).

Why would you stop doing the monger quests just because you got a fishing 120? That would be like not doing champion spawns after you got a 120 you were looking for.

The monger quests are a nice build out of fishing as its own game. Wish they'd do the same for mining...



Grim, you and Amber may be right about rarity of certain fish. I just haven't recorded anything that would indicate an actual rarity. That doesn't mean it's not there. 

That's not what I said.  I said it was unrealistic to measure it at 120.  

They should make it to where you can craft bait for specific fish, from messes of small fish. Give those damn things a real use.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

They should make it to where you can craft bait for specific fish, from messes of small fish. Give those damn things a real use.

Oooh, that would be cool.

Or have Cooking use the "messes" in fish pies. The fish pie buff could be the same as the basic "mess", but the duration increased to like 8 min (or 10 Stamina every 10 seconds for 60s). Something along those lines.

Either way, giving the "messes" additional purpose would be nice.

Grimbeard said:

...I disagree with the assumption that all fish have an equal chance at being caught 

I don't know Grim. I've let the macro run a bit (19.25 hrs) for the past couple days and this is what I've got for shore fish:


Doesn't look to me like any rarity among Shallow Water fish.

I'll post the distribution one last time when I have 1k minimum of each fish. At this point though, I'm pretty sure the catch distribution for Shallow Water is even.

PlayerSkillFTW said:

They should make it to where you can craft bait for specific fish, from messes of small fish. Give those damn things a real use.

Arroth_Thaiel said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

They should make it to where you can craft bait for specific fish, from messes of small fish. Give those damn things a real use.

Oooh, that would be cool.

Or have Cooking use the "messes" in fish pies. The fish pie buff could be the same as the basic "mess", but the duration increased to like 8 min (or 10 Stamina every 10 seconds for 60s). Something along those lines.

Either way, giving the "messes" additional purpose would be nice.

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Grimbeard said:

...I disagree with the assumption that all fish have an equal chance at being caught 

I don't know Grim. I've let the macro run a bit (19.25 hrs) for the past couple days and this is what I've got for shore fish:


Doesn't look to me like any rarity among Shallow Water fish.

I'll post the distribution one last time when I have 1k minimum of each fish. At this point though, I'm pretty sure the catch distribution for Shallow Water is even.

Totally possible it's an perception thing ! 

Maybe it's the mongers I have zero cutthroat Trout so it always ask for them I have 976 orc bass so it seldom ask for them of course I think most people keep all their fish deeded in bank rather than hold?

Grimbeard said:

Maybe it's the mongers I have zero cutthroat Trout so it always ask for them I have 976 orc bass so it seldom ask for them of course I think most people keep all their fish deeded in bank rather than hold?

I keep mine in a chest at the house. works better on Siege and I kept that going on any Prodo shard I played

So, because I said I would, here is the final distribution update:




If some type of rarity exists, for Shallow Water fish anyway, it's probably coming from the Monger quests.

This was all done with the same character:
Human
Male
120.0 Fishing
Tokuno Ship 
Captain Blackheart's Fishing Pole

If anyone wants to vary any of those and test again, knock yourself out.


--
As a note, UO's RNG is streaky as hell.

For a while, Pumpkinseed sunfish were almost 100 behind. Then I had to clean out the hold and start a new session. After a couple hours of the new session, I had 70+ Pumpkinseed sunfish and about 25 of everything else. Nothing else was even over 30.

Also, Pike varied from being the fewest to the most, by 50 or 60 fish, but you can see where Pike ended up. The last couple of sessions, the Pike were just not biting.

Good luck all!

Feigr said:

Just going to ignore the fact that you said you could do the quest in two hours and I said "post proof" and you never did.

Also ignoring that the quests are needed to get the 120 scroll without buying it, but all your experiences are from a perspective of one already with 120 skill.

None of those fish require 120 skill.

He has 1000 of each fish in less than a week. He can do the other fish types next.

Then he could do a whole bunch of quests by just filling orders and sailing.  IMO if you are stuck on 20 of a certain fish, you are not working with a good perspective.  I have hundreds of many fish and have never tried getting them.

Pawain said:

Feigr said:

Just going to ignore the fact that you said you could do the quest in two hours and I said "post proof" and you never did.

Also ignoring that the quests are needed to get the 120 scroll without buying it, but all your experiences are from a perspective of one already with 120 skill.

None of those fish require 120 skill.

He has 1000 of each fish in less than a week. He can do the other fish types next.

Then he could do a whole bunch of quests by just filling orders and sailing.  IMO if you are stuck on 20 of a certain fish, you are not working with a good perspective.  I have hundreds of many fish and have never tried getting them.

I agree, but at 92 skill I'm not getting those results.  If you think you can do it in two hours, you're welcome to post that proof for them.  I'm not even trying to be mad about it.  Teach me your ways Obi-Juan.

I'm not stuck on 20 fish.  I'm stuck on 10 Shovel-nosed Lobster and 10 Blue Crab.

Feigr said:

Pawain said:

Feigr said:

Just going to ignore the fact that you said you could do the quest in two hours and I said "post proof" and you never did.

Also ignoring that the quests are needed to get the 120 scroll without buying it, but all your experiences are from a perspective of one already with 120 skill.

None of those fish require 120 skill.

He has 1000 of each fish in less than a week. He can do the other fish types next.

Then he could do a whole bunch of quests by just filling orders and sailing.  IMO if you are stuck on 20 of a certain fish, you are not working with a good perspective.  I have hundreds of many fish and have never tried getting them.

I agree, but at 92 skill I'm not getting those results.  If you think you can do it in two hours, you're welcome to post that proof for them.  I'm not even trying to be mad about it.  Teach me your ways Obi-Juan.

I'm not stuck on 20 fish.  I'm stuck on 10 Shovel-nosed Lobster and 10 Blue Crab.

It sounds like the Event will begin next week. Part of it is fishing.  Copy your Captain to Test Center for the preview.

You can build a collection of fishies while collecting Hats.  

I love that spreadsheet. Fish 37 hours at a legendary fisherman rate and you can get 1000 of each fish.  

My favorite Legendary Fisherwoman is Gabby. 

So still no concrete proof of any of this...

I just want useful bait I do still find it odd that the monger ask for the fish or lobster I have 0 of vs the one I have 100s of 

AmberWitch said:

Okay, lets look at this another way as well. Lets say for the sake of argument that all the different classes of fish have the same chance of being fished up equally give or take 10% depending on which way the fish swim in your world. That would mean that you have equal stock of all fish within each category. Before I started doing the fish monger quests I worked at stocking the fish and shellfish so I wouldn't have to do what I am ending up having to do, trap. 

So after doing 100's of fish monger quests it became apparent that the quests seemed to favor certain crustaceans and shallow water fish. I know this because my stock levels show this.

Here's my current stock of crabs:

149 Apple

211 Blue

422 Dungeoness

247 King

3 Rock

311 Snow

Please note that for the past approx.  month I've had to trap regularly to get Rock crabs to fulfill orders. So adding all the new fished up crabs, subtracting out all the crabs used to fill orders still leaves me with no stock of rock while all the other crabs have increased for the most part. The rocks have been in greater demand.

So maybe it's me and my normal lousy RNG when not getting equal amounts fishing up stuff. But I'm also getting hit with an abundance of orders calling for Rock Crab. It can't be just me.  Having to stop doing quests so I can get 20 more crab which can take an evening, do the run, then 2 orders later get another quest for 20 Rock crab, on and on is difficult and makes me cranky.

What might be helpful is to be able to turn in so many plain crabs or lobsters to get crabs or lobsters of one's choice. This, in my opinion would make those gazillion unnamed crabs useful for something other than Library turn ins.

 It also would be nice to see some tweaking of the skill to give a greater percentage of named crabs and lobster compared to unnamed crabs and lobsters. A 120 fisher works hard to get to 120. It's a long path to Legendary.

And thank you, I love my BG fishing pole!

This my exact issue except cutthroat Trout at the moment 

AmberWitch said:

...

So maybe it's me and my normal lousy RNG when not getting equal amounts fishing up stuff. But I'm also getting hit with an abundance of orders calling for Rock Crab. It can't be just me.  Having to stop doing quests so I can get 20 more crab which can take an evening, do the run, then 2 orders later get another quest for 20 Rock crab, on and on is difficult and makes me cranky.

...

In your list of stock, if you replace Rock crab with Hummer lobster, that's what my list looks like after I've done some quests. It's been this way for years with this character. I have always just chalked it up to bad RNG. After reading this thread, maybe not.

Fisherfolk can be a superstitious bunch. Maybe whatever dev coded the monger quests included a request frequency by character, just to play into our fears.

  


If you're on Pacific, I can toss you a couple hundred Rock crab. I get those more than just about anything else, and hardly ever get quests for them.

Pawain said:

Feigr said:

Pawain said:

Feigr said:

Just going to ignore the fact that you said you could do the quest in two hours and I said "post proof" and you never did.

Also ignoring that the quests are needed to get the 120 scroll without buying it, but all your experiences are from a perspective of one already with 120 skill.

None of those fish require 120 skill.

He has 1000 of each fish in less than a week. He can do the other fish types next.

Then he could do a whole bunch of quests by just filling orders and sailing.  IMO if you are stuck on 20 of a certain fish, you are not working with a good perspective.  I have hundreds of many fish and have never tried getting them.

I agree, but at 92 skill I'm not getting those results.  If you think you can do it in two hours, you're welcome to post that proof for them.  I'm not even trying to be mad about it.  Teach me your ways Obi-Juan.

I'm not stuck on 20 fish.  I'm stuck on 10 Shovel-nosed Lobster and 10 Blue Crab.

It sounds like the Event will begin next week. Part of it is fishing.  Copy your Captain to Test Center for the preview.

You can build a collection of fishies while collecting Hats.  

I love that spreadsheet. Fish 37 hours at a legendary fisherman rate and you can get 1000 of each fish.  

My favorite Legendary Fisherwoman is Gabby. 

You can build a collection of fishies while collecting Hats.  

Hang on...

With the new Event it will be possible to collect the Pirate Hats to turn in for Rewards (perhaps rather then shoes and boots...) when fishing ?

I had no idea of that...

The newsletter mentions MiBs. That's what is meant, not regular just fishing

AmberWitch said:

Okay, lets look at this another way as well. Lets say for the sake of argument that all the different classes of fish have the same chance of being fished up equally give or take 10% depending on which way the fish swim in your world. That would mean that you have equal stock of all fish within each category. Before I started doing the fish monger quests I worked at stocking the fish and shellfish so I wouldn't have to do what I am ending up having to do, trap. 

So after doing 100's of fish monger quests it became apparent that the quests seemed to favor certain crustaceans and shallow water fish. I know this because my stock levels show this.

Here's my current stock of crabs:

149 Apple

211 Blue

422 Dungeoness

247 King

3 Rock

311 Snow

Please note that for the past approx.  month I've had to trap regularly to get Rock crabs to fulfill orders. So adding all the new fished up crabs, subtracting out all the crabs used to fill orders still leaves me with no stock of rock while all the other crabs have increased for the most part. The rocks have been in greater demand.

So maybe it's me and my normal lousy RNG when not getting equal amounts fishing up stuff. But I'm also getting hit with an abundance of orders calling for Rock Crab. It can't be just me.  Having to stop doing quests so I can get 20 more crab which can take an evening, do the run, then 2 orders later get another quest for 20 Rock crab, on and on is difficult and makes me cranky.

What might be helpful is to be able to turn in so many plain crabs or lobsters to get crabs or lobsters of one's choice. This, in my opinion would make those gazillion unnamed crabs useful for something other than Library turn ins.

 It also would be nice to see some tweaking of the skill to give a greater percentage of named crabs and lobster compared to unnamed crabs and lobsters. A 120 fisher works hard to get to 120. It's a long path to Legendary.

And thank you, I love my BG fishing pole!

It is not just you. 

last year... late summer/early fall, the guild i was in was doing a fishing tournament. so while doing this tournament I started doing the fish monger quests again.

someone suggested writing down where you pick up the quest and the delivery place. so i made a notecard with the starting point and i would put the initial of the delivery. And if the crate needed something I didn't have, then i put the item count and initial for the crab/lobster/fish. 

At one time, i had every single crate needing either Rock lobster, rock crab and blue crab. I would go out but it would take about 3 hours to get enough for 2 or 3 of them. so i started buying them on Atlantic and having them brought back. it was faster than having to get them myself and only one person was selling them on my shard. (this person was selling 10 for more than i could pay for 100 on Atlantic)

And the comment about smallmouth bass. I was getting those in almost every order. so it is easy for me to run out too. I also run out of kokanee salmon.

I think it's an RNG/prone to get type of thing, just like when you are tossing hooks or nets in Jhelom waters. My friend Joyce used to get lots of MIBs and i got lot of treasure maps from the corpses. One of my other chars tends to get lot more MIBs when I use her.

I'm very thankful for this update. very nice indeed