• PvP Updates - These updates are focused on feedback we received in this thread.  While we were unable to address every concern, we are confident in the upcoming changes as a solid starting point.  Additional PvP updates based on feedback are scheduled for the future!
   
• Vet Rewards - We have some exciting new vet rewards in the works, including,
  • New Monster Statuettes
  • Enchanted Gardening Shears - quickly harvest from all your plants!
  • Greenhouse - more space to store all your finest flowers and peculiar plants!
  • Decorative Lava Pool - add a little heat to your castle with this bubbling behemoth!
  • Decorative Ultima Dragon Deco Pack - flags, banners, and more sporting the iconic Ultima Dragon!
     
• Black Market Update - new items for purchase in the black market!
   
• Spring Event: Shrouded Sails!  Take part in a hunt for the most prized possession of some of Britannia's most notorious pirates- their hats!  Battle pirates and plunderbeacons, ransack ship cargo, dig up treasure chests, fish up treasures from the deep, and try your mettle against a pirate brawl as you collect pirate hats to turn in for treasures!
   

--SOS LOOT---

JackFlashUk said:

ABYSS HOUSES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GRANDFATHERED. 

They should NOT condemn current homes

Pawain said:

I don't PvP but that seems like a very low content thread to base changes on.

Not sure if normal pirate hunting and beacon killing will yield hats or are hats only from the pirate brawl.

Either way. I need to stock up on arrows.

JackFlashUk said:

ABYSS HOUSES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GRANDFATHERED. 

They should NOT condemn current homes

Alex said:

how are we supposed to engage on the new PVP ideas as per suggestion if the thread is closed???

PvP Updates - These updates are focused on feedback we received in this thread.  While we were unable to address every concern, we are confident in the upcoming changes as a solid starting point.  Additional PvP updates based on feedback are scheduled for the future!

PvP updates will be coming to TC1 soon, and it is imperative that those interested take part in the testing & feedback of those changes so we can effectively address any concerns.

JackFlashUk said:

ABYSS HOUSES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GRANDFATHERED. 

They should NOT condemn current homes

Smoot said:

Welp, i dont have High Seas so i guess no spring content for me.   

JackFlashUk said:

Smoot said:

Welp, i dont have High Seas so i guess no spring content for me.   

Best expansion/booster ever, GET IT. you are really missing out of great content!

JackFlashUk said:

Best expansion/booster ever, GET IT. you are really missing out of great content!

• Battle pirates
• plunderbeacons
• ransack ship cargo
• dig up treasure chests (in the sea? MIB/SOS?)
• fish up treasures from the deep (nets?)
• try your mettle against a pirate brawl

Smoot said:

JackFlashUk said:

Smoot said:

Welp, i dont have High Seas so i guess no spring content for me.   

Best expansion/booster ever, GET IT. you are really missing out of great content!

not for me.  boats are just too clunky.  can barely even see what your doing in in classic client. 

username said:

JackFlashUk said:

Best expansion/booster ever, GET IT. you are really missing out of great content!

Is there a guide anywhere on boats and how to do everything related to the spring event?

• Battle pirates
• plunderbeacons
• ransack ship cargo
• dig up treasure chests (in the sea? MIB/SOS?)
• fish up treasures from the deep (nets?)
• try your mettle against a pirate brawl

As someone who hasn't really touched a boat in 10+ years this is all another language to me. 

PVP Updates

Resolved Issues:
-Fixed an issue where Shuriken & Darts could bypass the throw timer.  -Good exploit fix

Gameplay Changes:
-Removed the ability to evade damage for oneself.  Lets call this exploit fix also

Visual Updates:
-Explosion potions now display an animation when targeting.  Nice QoL change, nothing crazy

Spell and Ability Adjustments:
-Casting teleport from a ring now inflicts a 1-second paralysis effect. -Good exploit fix

PvP Balancing:
-Increased diminishing returns for Evasion mechanics with each successful parry in PvP.  -Is this the only real pvp change ? 

Skett said:

That seems like an easy mistake anyone could have made and an easy fix. 

Archangel said:

so mages get nerfd even more... surprise surprise!

Skett said:

@ Kyronix will there be dull copper and shadow iron robe/cloak/dress/etc added to past years like 1st/2nd or 6th/7th this year picks ?

It seem it should have been the first robe/cloak and its still not on the list yet to finish the set.

Thank You.

CovenantX said:

I hope the pvp updates is only a partial list... if not, it's incredibly disappointing that Parry isn't touched at all.   -the most obvious thing in UO (only second, to cheats) and it's going to be at least another 4-6 months before it even has another chance to be ignored again?

Oreogl said:

CovenantX said:

I hope the pvp updates is only a partial list... if not, it's incredibly disappointing that Parry isn't touched at all.   -the most obvious thing in UO (only second, to cheats) and it's going to be at least another 4-6 months before it even has another chance to be ignored again?

What would they touch with party?

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

CovenantX said:

I hope the pvp updates is only a partial list... if not, it's incredibly disappointing that Parry isn't touched at all.   -the most obvious thing in UO (only second, to cheats) and it's going to be at least another 4-6 months before it even has another chance to be ignored again?

What would they touch with party?

  There are a number of things they could do to parry to keep it relevant and not be the dumbest garbage in the game.. aside from unpunished cheating of course.

  Just a few options to change Parry.  -obviously, the passive stuff could stay the way it is in Pvm

  1) Make it harder (an actual sacrifice) for Mages to use it.  reduce maximum block chance down from 35% to 20%  (chances can still be slightly increased with mastery activation etc)

  2) Reduce Parry chances while under the effects of HLD

  3) Spells cast while Parrying an attack are interrupted, damage from attack skill mitigated.

  -Evasion should probably also be effected, but there are already ways to interrupt spells to one under the effects of evade, just no reliable, weapon-based interruptions.

  4) Get rid of the passive parry chance, and make parrying a 'use skill', blocking attacks would only be possible during a duration, based on parry skill/dex    -Bushido spells which proc on parried attacks would auto-trigger parry 'use skill'. (separate cooldowns)

  5) make shields disarm-able  (I don't like this much, but it's an option better than leaving it alone).

 Edit- 6) Allow blocked attacks to still trigger any hit-spell effects of the weapon that was parried.

  Oh, and Glenda + Shieldbash shouldn't trigger bonebreaker...  if that's intended, why did they nerf less powerful things to stack bonebreaker with?

JackFlashUk said:

I am pretty sure when they first came out they were added to acct so existing house were safe and these became grandfathered

Smoot said:

JackFlashUk said:

Smoot said:

Welp, i dont have High Seas so i guess no spring content for me.   

Best expansion/booster ever, GET IT. you are really missing out of great content!

not for me.  boats are just too clunky.  can barely even see what your doing in in classic client. 

Phreak said:

I am so glad you stopped by and told me that Trismegistos.  It seems that there has been a mistake.  I applied for the Great Lakes house last week and on Monday received an email from Mesanna that I had won.  I let her know that I would be working this week so she took my account name and character name to transfer the house for me.  It appears that I was given the Lake Superior house on accident.  I did not even know there was a contest for LS until you mentioned this house to me.  After further review it looks like the LS signup is still active.  I have emailed to let her know. 

username said:

JackFlashUk said:

Best expansion/booster ever, GET IT. you are really missing out of great content!

Is there a guide anywhere on boats and how to do everything related to the spring event?

• Battle pirates
• plunderbeacons
• ransack ship cargo
• dig up treasure chests (in the sea? MIB/SOS?)
• fish up treasures from the deep (nets?)
• try your mettle against a pirate brawl

As someone who hasn't really touched a boat in 10+ years this is all another language to me. 

Oreogl said:

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

CovenantX said:

I hope the pvp updates is only a partial list... if not, it's incredibly disappointing that Parry isn't touched at all.   -the most obvious thing in UO (only second, to cheats) and it's going to be at least another 4-6 months before it even has another chance to be ignored again?

What would they touch with party?

  There are a number of things they could do to parry to keep it relevant and not be the dumbest garbage in the game.. aside from unpunished cheating of course.

  Just a few options to change Parry.  -obviously, the passive stuff could stay the way it is in Pvm

  1) Make it harder (an actual sacrifice) for Mages to use it.  reduce maximum block chance down from 35% to 20%  (chances can still be slightly increased with mastery activation etc)

  2) Reduce Parry chances while under the effects of HLD

  3) Spells cast while Parrying an attack are interrupted, damage from attack skill mitigated.

  -Evasion should probably also be effected, but there are already ways to interrupt spells to one under the effects of evade, just no reliable, weapon-based interruptions.

  4) Get rid of the passive parry chance, and make parrying a 'use skill', blocking attacks would only be possible during a duration, based on parry skill/dex    -Bushido spells which proc on parried attacks would auto-trigger parry 'use skill'. (separate cooldowns)

  5) make shields disarm-able  (I don't like this much, but it's an option better than leaving it alone).

 Edit- 6) Allow blocked attacks to still trigger any hit-spell effects of the weapon that was parried.

  Oh, and Glenda + Shieldbash shouldn't trigger bonebreaker...  if that's intended, why did they nerf less powerful things to stack bonebreaker with?

I think the block percentage is fine given the amount of deckers spamming and the sdi nerfs over the years. But I think we’ve had this discussion years ago. If I recall your biggest issue was it was the “stacking” with wrestling for a 67.5% block/parry chance.  Moving it to 20% would give an overall 60% block/parry which essentially worthless for 120 skill points.  And playing a mage you can’t survive with 50% weapon alone.

2) makes sense to me

3) pass on this, blocking a shot every 2 seconds would essentially guarantee the demise of mage PvP.  You’d never be able to cast.

4) I don’t hate the idea, but what’s the trade off?

5) yeah I’d be okay with this, within reason. 

6). Pass

7). Agree it shouldn’t trigger bone breaker.  Seems like a bug.

Oreogl said:

It’s been this way for a while based on my PVP experience, but generally the only way to remotely survive in group PVP is parry as it is playing a mage.  I wouldn’t say it’s anywhere near God mode.  Evasion though, I feel, should be nerfed in PvP altogether.

AtomicBetty said:

You can't worry about one versus one fights lol.

MMO's can't be balanced around that.

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

It’s been this way for a while based on my PVP experience, but generally the only way to remotely survive in group PVP is parry as it is playing a mage.  I wouldn’t say it’s anywhere near God mode.  Evasion though, I feel, should be nerfed in PvP altogether.

    I'm referring to one vs one fights,   a parry-mage basically has god-mode in that instance against any dexer, particularly melee..

 Group fights, generally you need to run...until you can pick parts of the group off.

  I'm not worried about evasion, you can still interrupt mages while their under the effects of evasion,  and they're still disarm-able as a weakness to dexers (even though they can parry the disarm)   -plus you can see and/or hear, when evasion gets activated so you should know when not to waste mana on damaging spells while you know evade is still active, and spells don't just get blocked 35% of the time, passively just for having the skill.

 

Oreogl said:

AtomicBetty said:

You can't worry about one versus one fights lol.

MMO's can't be balanced around that.

This is it right here.  You can’t balance a whole dynamic based on a one v one.

One vs one is incredibly rare, unless you’re specifically dueling.  Which in most cases they just spam DP, splinter, and or bleed which is effective.

Oreogl said:

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

It’s been this way for a while based on my PVP experience, but generally the only way to remotely survive in group PVP is parry as it is playing a mage.  I wouldn’t say it’s anywhere near God mode.  Evasion though, I feel, should be nerfed in PvP altogether.

    I'm referring to one vs one fights,   a parry-mage basically has god-mode in that instance against any dexer, particularly melee..

 Group fights, generally you need to run...until you can pick parts of the group off.

  I'm not worried about evasion, you can still interrupt mages while their under the effects of evasion,  and they're still disarm-able as a weakness to dexers (even though they can parry the disarm)   -plus you can see and/or hear, when evasion gets activated so you should know when not to waste mana on damaging spells while you know evade is still active, and spells don't just get blocked 35% of the time, passively just for having the skill.

 

Parry isnt really going to be 35%.  If you’re only running parry you’re gonna get wrecked pretty hard.  Realistically it’s 17.5% after weapon skill, mage weapon, or wrestling. The trade off is the SDI nerf mages get for having parry.

Grimbeard said:

More pvp discussion here than in the pvp discussion thread..

Grimbeard said:

More pvp discussion here than in the pvp discussion thread..

CovenantX said:

yea, a lot of difference that made, right?   I mean, it's not like you can't tell when you're unable to move or anything.... a debuff icon (nerve strike) for an effect that lasts less than 2 seconds to begin with.  If the devs keep listening to the cheaters, it's only going to make the game worse.

edit:  but at the same time, the pool of players left especially in pvp, is smaller than ever if they're looking for feedback on these forums, from people who aren't spoiled by the use of cheat program's help.  so.... enforce the f**king ToS already.

CovenantX said:

You can't balance pvp based around one vs one fights?  That's the problem it hasn't been.

I can't blame you for thinking that, there are very few one vs one fights left in UO. especially when the cheats do much of the gameplay for most of the players left... anyway.

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

AtomicBetty said:

You can't worry about one versus one fights lol.

MMO's can't be balanced around that.

This is it right here.  You can’t balance a whole dynamic based on a one v one.

One vs one is incredibly rare, unless you’re specifically dueling.  Which in most cases they just spam DP, splinter, and or bleed which is effective.

  You can't balance pvp based around one vs one fights?  That's the problem it hasn't been.

I can't blame you for thinking that, there are very few one vs one fights left in UO. especially when the cheats do much of the gameplay for most of the players left... anyway.

There's always something based around group pvp mostly survival/defensive, Parry/evade (mages only) the first time it was ''nerfed" (It was completely taken away from mages, only added a cooldown to Evasion for anything else that could use it)....   you know, back when nerve-mages were king the first time?   that was during the SSI bug too. (though not exclusive to dexers)   disarm didn't have an immunity timer back then either, it does now.  which makes evade/parry mages even better today, vs dexers the first time they were 'OP'.... 

  Those 'dueling rules' sound like field fighting to me.  normally duels would remove as much RNG from the fight as possible, that's always been the point of a duel, to see who is better,, not who is luckier.... anyway, not what I'm referring to  Parry doesn't have an effect on proper mage dueling anyway so it's irrelevant to the point I'm making.

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

It’s been this way for a while based on my PVP experience, but generally the only way to remotely survive in group PVP is parry as it is playing a mage.  I wouldn’t say it’s anywhere near God mode.  Evasion though, I feel, should be nerfed in PvP altogether.

    I'm referring to one vs one fights,   a parry-mage basically has god-mode in that instance against any dexer, particularly melee..

 Group fights, generally you need to run...until you can pick parts of the group off.

  I'm not worried about evasion, you can still interrupt mages while their under the effects of evasion,  and they're still disarm-able as a weakness to dexers (even though they can parry the disarm)   -plus you can see and/or hear, when evasion gets activated so you should know when not to waste mana on damaging spells while you know evade is still active, and spells don't just get blocked 35% of the time, passively just for having the skill.

 

Parry isnt really going to be 35%.  If you’re only running parry you’re gonna get wrecked pretty hard.  Realistically it’s 17.5% after weapon skill, mage weapon, or wrestling. The trade off is the SDI nerf mages get for having parry.

   You mean, parry would never be less than 35% (if you're 120.0 Parry and meet the 80 dex requirement), the only reason it SEEMS less, is because DCI/Dodge chance, is checked first....   so you'll see your parry rate is less.

 

    even if you run with 0 weapon skill, you'll still dodge 1/20 attacks, parry would still have a 35% chance to block on it's own.

 

   the 17.5% you're talking about is the average amount of Extra attacks you're not taking damage from, beyond just your defensive weapon skill.

keven2002 said:

CovenantX said:

You can't balance pvp based around one vs one fights?  That's the problem it hasn't been.

I can't blame you for thinking that, there are very few one vs one fights left in UO. especially when the cheats do much of the gameplay for most of the players left... anyway.

^^ This ^^

I agree with you. I used to love PvP because it took some skill / practice to get good at (at the time I was playing UO a ton so I had the practice lol). I remember sparring / dueling all the time just for practice; the winner would rez the loser and there was mutual respect. It would even be the case that if someone tried to jump in the 1 on 1 that the other person would stop fighting completely or both people dueling would gank the person interrupting the fight. Good times.

Even when people were using like the T1 connections from schools and were faster, having a strategy or being able to think on the fly would still keep someone in the fight.

At some point that all changed. They introduce dueling arena's (which actually seem like a pretty cool idea) for sanctioned fights but I'm guessing that's because somewhere along the line people lost honor and couldn't be trusted to be honest. I think also along with that came the scripting from some of those same dishonorable people. It took all the skill out out of PvP and it became my script vs your script which I guess become less strategic so now you need group battles to call out who to focus on.

Now all I see is the trash talk in Gen Chat about people dodging 1 on 1 and arguing about who won and who had the numbers. It's enough to make me turn off GenChat half the time (or place people on ignore if it's only 1 or 2).

Making changes based on 1 on 1 vs group fighting in the grand scheme won't fix toxicity that has become UO PvP. I just hope that the changes don't spill over into PvM (like evade did several years ago).

Oreogl said:

Well it’s not so much that it’s “not that way anymore” so much as it’s never been that way really.

mage duels we’re generally about who was better depending on template and rules.  More specifically straight mage duels no pots determined skill.

anything else was RNG and luck.

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

Well it’s not so much that it’s “not that way anymore” so much as it’s never been that way really.

mage duels we’re generally about who was better depending on template and rules.  More specifically straight mage duels no pots determined skill.

anything else was RNG and luck.

  Also, most games that pvp is an option (all games that I know of) are always balanced based around one vs one combat, it doesn't mean they're perfect, it means that one skill / item, isn't going to be what determines how many players one player can successfully beat without the use of other utility/options available to them.

  The only times UO had gamebreaking imbalances, were when Casters (Mages) had access to parry, outside of any bug-related reasons for something clearly being broken. such as the SSI bug,  auto-hit on spell cast (see WoD-Archers ~2007-ish when that was fixed), anyone with less than 140 HP, could not survive the attacks RNG wasn't even involved in it),

It's counter-productive to have a 'weakness' to a skill based around something the skill is already designed to be strong against   -Disarm vs Parry.  -Maybe it's time to restore the anti-disarm mechanic to Weapon skill Masteries, and completely remove the disarm immunity timer.  

 Sort of like Mysticism's "Stone Form", and the only real weakness is Purge Magic (Also a mystic spell),, who comes up with this?

Oreogl said:

I recall being mowed down with running shot from two archers.  No other buttons just mashing running shot, where it wasn’t quite enough for one to do the job but two you died pretty quickly. They then nerfed it but is an example of a group dynamic nerf.  

Oreogl said:

I recall being mowed down with running shot from two archers.  No other buttons just mashing running shot, where it wasn’t quite enough for one to do the job but two you died pretty quickly. They then nerfed it but is an example of a group dynamic nerf. 

keven2002 said:

Oreogl said:

I recall being mowed down with running shot from two archers.  No other buttons just mashing running shot, where it wasn’t quite enough for one to do the job but two you died pretty quickly. They then nerfed it but is an example of a group dynamic nerf.  

The last time I was raided at a champ spawn (probably was 3-4 years ago at this point) the single raider used this tactic. Granted I was on my sampire without any real pvp setup but they disarmed me (with a war fork IIRC) and switched over to a comp bow and spammed moving shot. Completely mowed me down and I had no chance to escape (and I tried running as soon as I was disarmed). It felt like they were scripting with how seamless everything was and how they were able to stay on the screen close enough to shoot me 5-6 times before I could re-arm a weapon but maybe I'm just that out of touch with PvP.

It was one of the few times I really thought to myself "wow wtf just happened - was that even legal?" when I died lol.

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

I recall being mowed down with running shot from two archers.  No other buttons just mashing running shot, where it wasn’t quite enough for one to do the job but two you died pretty quickly. They then nerfed it but is an example of a group dynamic nerf. 

   Yea, I do too, but not in many years (definitely before Parry was usable on mages for the 2nd time), Ironically enough, dexers were more dangerous back then, before suits were all capped out in every single essential property. (before global loot and during imbuing it was even more common), most of them couldn't swing quite as fast as today (literally 0.25s-0.50s slower w/comp-bow,normally you were still bleeding & disarmed during running shots anyway) magical shortbows weren't any slower than they are now. but they sure hit much harder. before the weapon revamp like most weapons did.   It always still took 2 or more archers though.   literally the only time I remember archers actually doing good in one vs one, was before AI/lightening strikes were capped at 35, though that wasn't just in part because of high damage (50-65 w/out hit-spell)... which was also during the SSI bug, where toggling a special on or off, would instantly cause you to swing your weapon, regardless of your dex/stam or +SSI.

I remember feeling like Throwers were 'OP' around 10-12 years ago or so, but with how gear & parry is now, they wouldn't be OP by any means if the nerfs made to them at the time were reverted today, obviously they'd still be underwhelming when parry is used against them, but all dexers already are so that's nothing new.  

Oreogl said:

hands down still probably one of the better templates, which is probably why most dismounters turned into gargoyles.

Guessing it’s still this way. 

CovenantX said:

Oreogl said:

hands down still probably one of the better templates, which is probably why most dismounters turned into gargoyles.

Guessing it’s still this way. 

    most dismounters are gargoyles because you can toggle on dismount while flying, you don't have to be on foot to toggle it on, doing so eliminates to swing delay (0.25s) when you toggle a special on.      Archers that dismount people usually get on foot, toggle dismount on and remount, so they can shoot immediately once they jump off mount without the swing delay... it's easy to get out of range of an archer's dismount if they don't do it that way,

  not to mention the gargoyle's dismount weapon (cyclone) is faster than archery dismount wep, but it's not too often you'd get to attack twice before the target is out of range anyway.