PvP Updates Discussion Thread

styx said:

How about add Teleport Rings to the ingame store?

make as a new item called "The Ring of Escape" and charge us like 500/1000 Sovs for each

How about you buy them off vendors like everyone else has too? You have just as much capability to purchase rings as everyone else in the game and that goes for every player. Go on Vendor search type in tele ring and go buy them. Its not a item only particular people have access to everyone can buy them anytime they want. There is a ton on ATL for sale right now. Make some gold and go buy them like everyone else does.

1.) Make mastery and pet related debuffs reduce resist caps rather than resist reduction.  In current state they are useless in PvP.  E.g - onslaught, grasping claw, armor corruption.

2.) Make Tele rings paralyze the user while waiting for cursor to appear, similar to how magic wands function.  

3.)  Increase diminishing returns on evasion or halve the duration, or both.

4.) Make the no cool down timer for wrestling tied to the mastery, but without mastery apply the same timer as usual.  Also implement a mana based form of the old unbreakable stun punch from pre aos as a wrestling mastery.

5.) Turn in for item events should be done in fel only to prevent scripting of the events.  Your player base is the most effective and numerous enforcement tool.

6.) Dismount immunity cool down of 60 seconds in conjunction with treating pet statues like pet balls, where there is an interruptible freezing period to get the pet to pop up.  

7.)  Let lances dismount while mounted regardless of whether or not your opponent has a Lance in their hand.  Should also force you to be on foot if landed.

8.)  Include wrestling In the skill list to qualify for mana discount on special moves.

9.)  Implement some automation so that if hexadecimal strings are passed through guild or alliance chat an automatic log is created for further review by a GM.  

10.) The only people using EJ accounts are using them for nefarious purposes.  

Awesome to see an interest taken in this.

1. Rebalance weapons to give non-bokuto weapons a purpose to be used. (This will help pvm diversity as well potentially) Suggestions:

2. What exactly is the point of parry when every template has parry? Why not just give all chars parry and delete the skill? This is a skill point increase problem , just a thought, probably not actionable.

3. Add action timers between dismounting and toggling specials (and make dismount toggled abilities deselect when you remount) - to combat scripted dismounts and give counterplay

4. Necromancy sucks in pvp-
Suggested changes- 
Give spiritspeak mana regen similar to focus
Make debuffs harder to remove (tie removing these curses to necromancy skill)
Make mounts summoned by animate dead permanent until dismounted
Make the aoe for poison strike 1 tile wider
Maybe make the necromancy mastery passive increase the difficulty to remove debuffs
Mostly small changes that would make these immensely more popular choices imo.

5.
Make equipped spell channeling weapons/shields reduce damage output
Make equipped spellbooks/wands increase damage output
Make spellbooks non disarmable
-To create diversity and give a benefit to not using parry/hybrid templates on casting classes

6
Make disabling abilities unbreakable apart from apples for at least a small duration.
-Too many absolutely useless weapons and abilities because they are just instantly broken with trap boxes
(Paralyze/Sleep/nerve strike etc.)

I agree with most of Links ideas as well

7.)  Let lances dismount while mounted regardless of whether or not your opponent has a Lance in their hand.  Should also force you to be on foot if landed.

This sounds good if it replaced one of the Fencing Mastery abilities. I don't think Swordsmanship needs access to this ability.

4. Necromancy sucks in pvp-
Suggested changes- 
Give spiritspeak mana regen similar to focus
Make debuffs harder to remove (tie removing these curses to necromancy skill)
Make mounts summoned by animate dead permanent until dismounted
Make the aoe for poison strike 1 tile wider
Maybe make the necromancy mastery passive increase the difficulty to remove debuffs
Mostly small changes that would make these immensely more popular choices imo.

6 Make disabling abilities unbreakable apart from apples for at least a small duration.
-Too many absolutely useless weapons and abilities because they are just instantly broken with trap boxes
(Paralyze/Sleep/nerve strike etc.)

Kyronix said:

Rules of the Thread

• Do not discuss unapproved 3rd party programs or clients.  This is something on our radar and we aren't going to discuss any action we are taking publicly.  If you want to comment on this topic email uo@ broadsword.com

I'm happy to see this is on the radar. These clients needed to be addressed several years ago.

shuriken-fukija spam have to be fixed, we need a cooldown between them

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

He is not talking about the 720 cap he is talking about the total cap.  LEAVE THE TOTAL CAP ALONE.

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

Trismegistos said:

I am wondering that some postings are coming from a profile which has a low digit number of total postings.

And that some of the postings are reading like a wishlist. Yes they ask for recommandations, but if i want a change i have to justify why this or that has to be changed or not has to be changed. and if you give a reason, non PvP player have the chance to get a clue how to become better.

As i wrote before, why should murderer should have a town bonus from a town of virtue? It should be harder to kill someone than to try to stay alive. Most of their victims arent skilled or equipped as the hunters are. So in a world which is based on virtues the blue ones should be supported.

Potion said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Maybe I misspoke, maybe you didn't understand.

The skill cap should be a maximum of 820 including skill increase items.  You can currently go far above 820 skill points and that should not be a thing.

Cookie said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

NO  This will mess with EVERY type of player in UO.  Stop asking for changes that hurts %90 of the player base for the %10 PvPers.

Lord_Frodo said:

Potion said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Maybe I misspoke, maybe you didn't understand.

The skill cap should be a maximum of 820 including skill increase items.  You can currently go far above 820 skill points and that should not be a thing.

Cookie said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

NO  This will mess with EVERY type of player in UO.  Stop asking for changes that hurts %90 of the player base for the %10 PvPers.

You are just clueless and have no idea what you are talking about.  But feel free to show me your suit and template that utilizes over 100 skill point increase.

@Kyronix

Just going to say this, if I am going to return to PvP again.

Pls don't nerf templates.

If one template is "OP", then upgrade other templates to challenge this. 

Bukuto mage too OP? 
Then make Archer, Stun Mage, Para Mage, etc equally OP.

Then, it's up to each player skills to see who is a better player, to counter each other.

Don't nerf everything until it's so... boring.

The cheap process is to simply nerf mindlessly.

It's better to level the playing field by adding "countering methods" and make all templates viable to counter each other.

Covfefe said:

how would a hard cap on +skill actually work though?

say you have jewels with +30 skill you do use, and +15 a skill you don't want, how would the system decide the 30 skills of the 45 you could have?

Trismegistos said:

I am wondering that some postings are coming from a profile which has a low digit number of total postings.

I'm recognising them as pvpers, the real players of this game, who know the mechanics and play the game rather than posting on forums, they have know pvp is mess up, and are posting.

You are right, some of the points need to be backed up more. But in many cases, they assume forum readers understand the game mechanics, but they are completely mistaken.

Potion said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Potion said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:

Potion said:

Skill Cap needs to be looked at. A game with an uncapped skill tree cannot be balanced.

I am torn between the better option being 800 or 820. I don't think most current templates should become unplayable. An example being:

On one hand I think Anatomy/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 820 points.

But I don't think Wrestle/Mystic/Parry mage should be a thing with 840 points. And while at a cap of 820 you could still probably fit it you'd need to compensate by lowering other skills.

Which is why I probably lean towards 820 so it doesn't feel like the only current template not affected is bokuto mage.

Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Maybe I misspoke, maybe you didn't understand.

The skill cap should be a maximum of 820 including skill increase items.  You can currently go far above 820 skill points and that should not be a thing.

Cookie said:

Sylas_Stormguard said:
Yeah raise the skillcap to 820 and ill show you how much fun it is to play against my necro weaver bush evasion bok alchemy mystic mage.

Grimbeard said:

720 is fine right now there is no real cap as the only thing holding someone back is the lack of items with skill on them

Think you have both misunderstood him.
He is not saying raise the cap from 720 to 820.

And the fact there is no real cap in pvp is the issue, some templates are picking up too many all-round abilities.

He is suggesting a hard cap with items should be 820 or 840. The idea is a common one among pvpers, and has decent logic.

This would however hit my pvm rogue, who has 936 skills, his entire template is built around this, and I would be upset to lose it as such.

A lot of pvp issues come down to players not reading or understanding the suggestions properly.

Definately liked the idea of beefed up pvp objective based content.

NO  This will mess with EVERY type of player in UO.  Stop asking for changes that hurts %90 of the player base for the %10 PvPers.

Does not effect 90% of the playerbase very few players use over 100 skill point increase.  And there is a skill cap for a reason.  Characters are not meant to do everything so even if a person does use over 100 skill point increase from items doesn't mean they should.

You are just clueless and have no idea what you are talking about.  But feel free to show me your suit and template that utilizes over 100 skill point increase.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG  There are a lot of players that use added skill points to go over 820.  All my warrior types, Tamers and Bards have 820+ skills and I do not have to prove anything, you prove that they don't other than saying so.  The DEVs are free to look at every bodies Chars to prove you are full of BS.

@Potion There is a new page of PvP jewelry on Stratics so every PvPer can have 820+skills.  If something is there for all then it is BALANCED you just choose not to do it and want every body  nerfed.  Oh wait I know why you want this, you got beat by someone with a more leet suit than you.

Covfefe said:

I don't think you need a skill cap, sounds like a lot of hard work.

If they did what Covenant said:

11) Reinforced Refinements should reduce your minimum DCI with your DCI cap, currently these refinements increase your resistance cap +1, and reduce your defense chance increase cap by -1 per modification,  essentially allowing you to build your suit with less over-all DCI because you're never in the negative. 

that would be -15 skill anyway, as skill on jewel will instead need to be replaced by DCI.

AtomicBetty said:

Longshot, probably.

You should ask the posters that attempt to provide suggestions if they would be interested in joining a Slack group and have more direct discussions to cover feedback. So better communication can be had and if area's of concern are raised, or thoughts on how that would be beneficial are had they can defend their suggestions and maybe put it in a point of view that you haven't thought about?

Spend like a week, a month just talking about everything raised on the forums, internal suggestions and see if actual meaningful change can happen over time.

I fully plan on quitting the game when my subs ends so take my words however you will but i love UO pvp. I spent the better part of 15+ years doing it and would love to hear it become massive again. 

I would highly advise against an insider group. A closed pvp focus group was tried in the past. It ended with a select few having a personal hand in changes with insider information giving them time to have the next ready made FotM temp when those changes were made public. 

It may be cold to say but pvpers know more about how mechanics work together than any dev ever will. We all know how long it takes pvp related changes to happen here. Any change that results in an absurd OP temp being born usually ends with mass people tramming out or quitting entirely before any adjustments are made.

If i was a dev knowing how much better suits and mods have become i'd probably revisit nerfs of the past and adjust accordingly.

Nerfs force people to play what works. You need balance but also diversity where there's options to play other templates that could be equally as effective and also fun to that specific player. From 2003-2012 an average weekday was 100+ person dungeon fights. We all played different templates that we enjoyed playing. 

Nerfs just off the top of my head:
-Stealth archers destroyed (annoying but funny to have an entire guild pop out)
-Ai cap
-Pet damage cap
-Archers and throwers miss more than hit
-Comp bow increased swing speed
-Increased mana for spamming specials
-Tying hiding and stealth to deathstrike damage killed a lot of fun hybrid ninja temps

The list goes on and on.

Urge said:

AtomicBetty said:

Longshot, probably.

You should ask the posters that attempt to provide suggestions if they would be interested in joining a Slack group and have more direct discussions to cover feedback. So better communication can be had and if area's of concern are raised, or thoughts on how that would be beneficial are had they can defend their suggestions and maybe put it in a point of view that you haven't thought about?

Spend like a week, a month just talking about everything raised on the forums, internal suggestions and see if actual meaningful change can happen over time.

I fully plan on quitting the game when my subs ends so take my words however you will but i love UO pvp. I spent the better part of 15+ years doing it and would love to hear it become massive again. 

I would highly advise against an insider group. A closed pvp focus group was tried in the past. It ended with a select few having a personal hand in changes with insider information giving them time to have the next ready made FotM temp when those changes were made public. 

It may be cold to say but pvpers know more about how mechanics work together than any dev ever will. We all know how long it takes pvp related changes to happen here. Any change that results in an absurd OP temp being born usually ends with mass people tramming out or quitting entirely before any adjustments are made.

If i was a dev knowing how much better suits and mods have become i'd probably revisit nerfs of the past and adjust accordingly.

Nerfs force people to play what works. You need balance but also diversity where there's options to play other templates that could be equally as effective and also fun to that specific player. From 2003-2012 an average weekday was 100+ person dungeon fights. We all played different templates that we enjoyed playing. 

Nerfs just off the top of my head:
-Stealth archers destroyed (annoying but funny to have an entire guild pop out)
-Ai cap
-Pet damage cap
-Archers and throwers miss more than hit
-Comp bow increased swing speed
-Increased mana for spamming specials
-Tying hiding and stealth to deathstrike damage killed a lot of fun hybrid ninja temps

The list goes on and on.

The only reason I think slack would be good idea is so discussion of third party client could happen until that's addressed anything else irrelevant 

Grimbeard said:

The only reason I think slack would be good idea is so discussion of third party client could happen until that's addressed anything else irrelevant 

May be true but that's not at all what i was talking about. Completely different animal. 

Any change mechanic/skill related should be 100% transparent with feedback from all or else you'll have the typical 3-4 people trying to swindle the devs into hand making their next OP god temp that'll take months to adjust.

Who knows, if underwater boss Kyronix here is serious in making pvp fun again it may just rekindle my interest in logging in to do something other than sell my shit off. If he'd do some kind of discussion like this for tram too (another area i'm completely bored from) i'd almost crack a smile. 

Kyronix said:

• Do not discuss unapproved 3rd party programs or clients.  This is something on our radar and we aren't going to discuss any action we are taking publicly.  If you want to comment on this topic email uo@ broadsword.com

So we're not going to be able to play 2d anymore unless we use your crappy 13fps client that don't even work?

Before any restrictions are considered on a skill increase cap, please remember that every suit build with 100+ skill increase normally make compromises in other mods! Also we already have a simple way to counter high skill Inc. templates <span>🙂</span> dont kill the pvp bard.

Covfefe said:

Not sure if this is true, but someone told me the official 2d client doesn't even have auto-navigate around objects.

I'll pass thanks.

Covfefe said:

Kyronix said:

• Do not discuss unapproved 3rd party programs or clients.  This is something on our radar and we aren't going to discuss any action we are taking publicly.  If you want to comment on this topic email uo@ broadsword.com

So we're not going to be able to play 2d anymore unless we use your crappy 13fps client that don't even work?

Looks like @Mervyn /  @Yoshi opened up another account

Mariah said:

@ Covfefe Please contribute to this discussion in a more constructive manner, your current posting tone is not helpful

Thank you.

At least we found merv/yoshi 

Covfefe said:

Not sure if this is true also, but someone told me UOAssist has no line of site check, and only range check, so if target goes around corner of building/wall you have to recast the spell.

lolololol if true.

Please tell me they're not seriously expecting anyone to play like that.

Can we please keep 3rd party programs out of this discussion, as per Kyronix's request?

Mariah said:

Can we please keep 3rd party programs out of this discussion, as per Kyronix's request?

You can't talk about rain without saying getting wet hence taking this to another venue makes sense...

I will add my thoughts. I think they are a very different take to what's been posted so far. 

The first thing is PvP is generated by end game players wanting to fight each other. Expect them to go for good gear that gives marginal gains over what you need to PvM. 

At the moment there is very little objective based content to fight over - champ spawns, harrowers, and towns are the only examples. 

The player base for PvP is spread out amongst the shards with most PvPers being on multiple shards and in several guilds simply to get a limited number of fights. 

There are some templates which are better in 1v1 situations but in larger fights positioning and teamwork via the use of voice coms and map programs become much more important than templates and the use of certain spells and items so if the intent is to make large scale PvP fun then I would stay away from changing any of this. 

To improve PvP I would suggest player funnelling i.e. linking a series of automated daily / weekly / weekend events and a monthly EM event that add points to a leader board. I would have the equivalent of a power hour linked by an offset of the shards maintenance time so that the PvP on that shard goes 'hot' at a certain time and where shards are in the same time zone I would alternate this time. 

So you would for example have a leader board for players and their guilds which could simply be the VvV board repurposed. The rankings could come from controlling a town in the VvV system, completing a particular champ at a particular time, killing opponents on an elo system (kill/assist as in VvV), reintroduce some of the elements of the faction system for example traps in town, give points to guilds holding towns and make VvV facet wide so people can fight across the map and not sit at Luna bank.  

Urge said:

I fully plan on quitting the game when my subs ends so take my words however you will but i love UO pvp. I spent the better part of 15+ years doing it and would love to hear it become massive again. 

I would highly advise against an insider group. A closed pvp focus group was tried in the past. It ended with a select few having a personal hand in changes with insider information giving them time to have the next ready made FotM temp when those changes were made public. 

It may be cold to say but pvpers know more about how mechanics work together than any dev ever will. We all know how long it takes pvp related changes to happen here. Any change that results in an absurd OP temp being born usually ends with mass people tramming out or quitting entirely before any adjustments are made.

If i was a dev knowing how much better suits and mods have become i'd probably revisit nerfs of the past and adjust accordingly.

I'm in the same boat as you. The game hasn't provided enough content or updates for me to keep paying to play so once my sub runs out I'll be done as well unless they actually give use something good in October. If not, I'll revisit as an EJ and play if I get the itch. The PvP shipped sailed a while ago when the wall scripting etc started happening because to me it's Player v Player - not Player v Script.

I'm glad the Devs are asking for some feedback on this. Their question of "what is considered good?" comes up and while it's a fair question it does prove, to an extent, that the Dev team doesn't play the game enough collectively to know what is "good" or items players would want. The problem that comes from this is that there are going to be some wildly OP suggestions from players that the Devs will need to sort through along with some suggestions that are solely based around that one players suit/template that probably wouldn't be used by majority of players.

Where I'm going with that is PvP also falls into this category. Without the Devs actually knowing much about PvP (which is an assumption but with as many 3rd party things running rampant without a stance on them, it's hard not to think that) they are going to rely on players. The problem here is that many of the "solutions" presented by people are going to be geared towards them.

I'll leave it at this... take this with a grain of salt because I've only PvP'ed maybe a dozen times over the past 12 months (mainly it was during the Deceit Fel weekend like 10 months ago).

I don't think Bok mages are wildly OP (offensively) by themselves when I was using a char with parry; mainly it was them trying to spam the same combo over and over hoping the nerve strike would hit. I think I might have died once and that was when everything that they threw at me was successful. I think the issue of them being OP comes into play when you factor in they have additional client features that other players don't have; meaning the human element of hitting some macros or adjusting on the fly is removed. I understand that we were asked to refrain from talking about that but the truth of the matter is that when several things are automated or triggered after X without delay or error (every time) that's going to be a massive leg up regardless of the template. 

CovenantX said:

Mariah said:

Can we please keep 3rd party programs out of this discussion, as per Kyronix's request?

   I'm 100% sure they're going to be popping into nearly all discussions until either one of two things happens.

1) They're unusable

Or

2) Everyone uses them. and nobody cares anymore.     

-UO is borderline unplayable now, because most people are using them.  the ones who don't need to actually be good and often times it's not worth the annoyance of fighting auto-every consumable/pop-box.

Some players, including myself posted one or several changes, some repeats, and there hasn't been any dev response to any of them, no one knows which changes are even going to be considered.

Some off the cuff comments about some things in general, no solutions as such, but some of the problems.

• I feel some of the mage defensive spells take to long to cast - especially Cleansing Winds, and Arch Cure. In group fights, damage is coming in hard and fast, and we have no chance to counter.
• 3 x Lethal Poison Shurikens, is an issue, you have these things flying at you all the time, again, very hard to counter.
• Yes, Bushido swords mages, with their evade, confidence, bokuto nerve strikes/splinters or group dismounts are just way too much. You can even line up double nerve strikes. This sort of damage train, is a stupid way to play.
• The whole reliance on splinter/hit lightning weapons, again, when the game is so over-reliant on 1 thing, you know a specific meta has been reached, and it is overpowered.
• Pure mages need a buff somehow. I'd love to take parry off, but nothing can physically remove parry right now, without instant death. Maybe Wrestle needs a buff to compensate.
• Sampires... Not pvp, but again, completely overpowered - maybe pure healing needs a buff.
• There was a time when the Devs were making some nice amendments to Classic, then they stopped. Please look at the options out there, and use some of the concepts that make pvp fun.
• Better targetting methods - targetting is everything in pvp. Bars should be pulled up for us - and we should be able to mouse wheel scroll up and down the lists to target.
• Bigger screen, to be able to drag the screen to the size we want.
• Faster movement/turning mechanism, so Classic matches Enhanced.
• Options to arrange, and lock icons in Classic.
• Better methods for grabbing the specific bars you want, and arranging them.
• I think mages now have too little mana pool, and too little SDI Cap in pvp. Yes there is an issue, where warriors can basically use everything, all the stats and skills given to them, and mages cannot - for example Dex/Stam is useless to a mage. Mages could do with compensation here for this lack of being able to use the current full loot table out there. Mages without weapons should be able to be competitive - personal opinion.
• Classic Client, needs to handle more than 10 bars. It needs to hold up to 50 bars, and organise them, to cope with the fights we are having. Orange down one side, green down another.
• Classic Client, should give us nice easy colours for friends or enemies, and put health bars above/below so we can easily see friend/enemy status.
• Of course - we need a Nerve Strike Debuff Icon - currently one of the most powerful special abilities out there, and we have no way of knowing we have been hit by it.
• If mages cannot be compensated for not being able to use the whole loot table - we need a way to be able to adjust current armour properties to give us more what we need. I will not specify what this is, as it could be different things, for different players. But for example, I would always drop off +skills/Dex/Stam, for additional survival properties like Damage Eaters, Regenerations, DCI, HCI, EP, etc - others would do the opposite. This probably relates back to Crafting, and some of the improvements that need to be made here.
• Allow more Customisation of spellbooks - either Imbuing, Scribing. Maybe put some Offensive properties on these - as I suggested in my Event Reward request - see how this pans out - could it help strengthen Wrestle?
• Things like the Organiser Agent that UOA had, built into Classic.
• Dress Agent built into Classic.
• Loot/Scavenger options, built into Classic.
• 
  

+ A suggestion I liked - is to give pvpers a scheduled event, with decent rewards. Champs spawns still generate pvp. Harry just works. VvV barely works, and the whole damage train style of pvp is off-putting to most. People say you can have a variety of templates - not really here, they are all very similer in their style. VvV could do with some reward buffs - and maybe a VvV special timed event - where there are some serious rewards - once a week. {Item Bless Deed works for me 🙂  }

Cookie said:

• 3 x Lethal Poison Shurikens, is an issue, you have these things flying at you all the time, again, very hard to counter.

Covfefe said:

Cookie said:

• 3 x Lethal Poison Shurikens, is an issue, you have these things flying at you all the time, again, very hard to counter.

You're the second person in this thread to talk about chaining shurikens,

this is not a PvP balancing issue, they already put a cool-down on throwing shurikens, what you're talking about is a bug that people are using to bypass it that numerous people have reported multiple times and never fixed.

I understand what it is exactly, but we were asked not to mention a certain thing, so I've done it, without mentioning a certain thing.
Ultimately, this is unbalancing pvp, so yes, it is a pvp balancing issue, it is messing up pvp.

Covfefe said:

Also that Kevin guy complaining about wall scripting. That is not a PvP balancing issue, that is just a rubber banding bug that affects the official 2d client only (well does slightly affect the clients with auto-navigate around objects but not as much), pretty sure that also has been reported numerous times by numerous people already and never fixed.

Wall Scripting is the least of my problems 🙂

Cookie said:

Some off the cuff comments about some things in general, no solutions as such, but some of the problems.

• Dress Agent built into Classic.

This already exists

Covfefe said:

Cookie said:

Some off the cuff comments about some things in general, no solutions as such, but some of the problems.

• Dress Agent built into Classic.

This already exists

Yes... not as tidy as I would like.

I struggled to use it, maybe it is viable, I will be honest, I do not remember completely anymore.

Dear @Kyronix

I would like to invite you to pvp with our Guild. 🙂

We can hide your identity, I would just like to show you what some of it is like.

You can try various templates, come in Discord with us, and you can get to see my frustration losing, or winning first hand 🙂

and give us a linked up ingame party/guild Map function please. 🙂

also really useful.

Cookie said:

and give us a linked up ingame party/guild Map function please. 🙂

also really useful.

CovenantX said:

a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.

That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.

   All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

I'd like to see Macroes for:

Dismount Pet / Remount Pet.

Trap-box.

Already exists (uoassist)/ Already exists UO

Already exists UO

CovenantX said:

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.

That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.

   All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

That's why attempting to have this discussion without mentioning third party clients is a waste of time 

CovenantX said:

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.

That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.

   All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

Grimbeard said:

CovenantX said:

   All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

That's why attempting to have this discussion without mentioning third party clients is a waste of time 

    Agreed, it's not a great situation, but hopefully there's a way out of it.

CovenantX said:

Grimbeard said:

CovenantX said:

   All Pvp-related bugs, become balance issues when you're fighting against people using clients that have fixes or work-arounds that legit players do not have.

That's why attempting to have this discussion without mentioning third party clients is a waste of time 

    Agreed, it's not a great situation, but hopefully there's a way out of it.

If in game enforcement was as strong as forum enforcement...

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

a filter for the 'New Target System', so that we don't target reds or greys that are in the same guild/alliance.    -one reason people don't play reds much anymore.

That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.

it's also a bug in EC. You can select to ignore war on party members, yet it still sometimes attacks your red party members. Very annoying and needs to be fixed but it's hard to track what exactly is causing it because it's not happening every time.

Once you toggle a special move, keep it active even if you cast a mage spell. Just like injected strike.

CovenantX said:

   Oh, now i remember why I didn't use the dismount/remount.

 it's because it only works if you use the 'New Target System", I still use the old target system (the tiny bar that cycles through target next/previous etc).   However, if they added filters so that we don't attack our guildies/alliance members, I wouldn't have any issues switching.

I don't understand sorry, what's the disadvantage of using the new target system? You still cycle through next/previous with new target system. (Please note the macro i showed in UO is to mount nearest follower, you also need block war on mount selected) to dismount you still need to use UOA.

Max_Blackoak said:

Covfefe said:

That is another bug that affects only the official 2d client, and not a PvP balancing issue. pretty sure that has been reported multiple times and nothing ever done about it.

it's also a bug in EC. You can select to ignore war on party members, yet it still sometimes attacks your red party members. Very annoying and needs to be fixed but it's hard to track what exactly is causing it because it's not happening every time.

Cookie said:

• Of course - we need a Nerve Strike Debuff Icon - currently one of the most powerful special abilities out there, and we have no way of knowing we have been hit by it.

Covfefe said:

Cookie said:

• Of course - we need a Nerve Strike Debuff Icon - currently one of the most powerful special abilities out there, and we have no way of knowing we have been hit by it.

This also just sounds like a bug to me. If you're under the effects of a debuff and it fails to display in your buffs/debuffs bar. Have you tried calling a GM to fix the issue?

I have mentioned it before.

If you are who I think you are, I am aware it has been raised many times by you, so it is a known issue, and a pvp one.

I think there are some people in this thread, pushing their own agenda a little here, I don't mind you commenting, never have - and it's usually for a good point, but you seem to have sour grapes which I understand, and a couple of posters here, would never normally be here still having input because they cannot resist themselves, yet they would be the first to mention it if it were the other way around.

There are a huge amount of posters in this thread, genuinely here to give it a good shot. Please let them have the floor. {That is not to take away from your more helpful posts pointing out errors in certain posts}.

If merv/yoshi would just properly identify themselves it would make things easier 

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

   Oh, now i remember why I didn't use the dismount/remount.

 it's because it only works if you use the 'New Target System", I still use the old target system (the tiny bar that cycles through target next/previous etc).   However, if they added filters so that we don't attack our guildies/alliance members, I wouldn't have any issues switching.

I don't understand sorry, what's the disadvantage of using the new target system? You still cycle through next/previous with new target system. (Please note the macro i showed in UO is to mount nearest follower, you also need block war on mount selected) to dismount you still need to use UOA.

 😂 

Lynk said:

2.) Make Tele rings paralyze the user while waiting for cursor to appear, similar to how magic wands function.  

People still asking for another nerf to items with very limited charges that stopped spawning 20 years ago 😂

This is how I think Focussed Mages should look like in the current climate.
This does not Nerf anything.
It does promote Pure Mages, who need a lot of help right now.



Having Parry Mastery, could also lose Focussed Mage ability, to mitigate Shield Bash if people think that would be OP.

Other suggestions of mine - have included an Offensive spellbook, which may help make Wrestle Mastery a little more viable - especially combined with fixing the Focussed Mage as above.

There you go @Kyronix - 2 possible fixes for pure mages to help them compete.

So the quick fix is;
Take Parry off the Focussed skills banned list.

Add Bushido, and all Weapon skills to the list of banned skills for a Focussed Mage.

With a bit of thought to Parry Mastery that maybe OP, so add just the Mastery to the List of Banned.

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

This is how I think Focussed Mages should look like in the current climate.
This does not Nerf anything.
It does promote Pure Mages, who need a lot of help right now.



Having Parry Mastery, could also lose Focussed Mage ability, to mitigate Shield Bash if people think that would be OP.

Other suggestions of mine - have included an Offensive spellbook, which may help make Wrestle Mastery a little more viable - especially combined with fixing the Focussed Mage as above.

There you go @ Kyronix - 2 possible fixes for pure mages to help them compete.

    you should probably make this 'spread sheet' with all the skills of a template, and not just 2-4 of the 6-8 skills everyone would have in a single temp-.

  I would be in favor of Parry being taken off the list counting against focus spec, but not without at least a 30-50% block chance reduction with Magery, 

Or 

'blocked attacks' should trigger spell interruptions, as if you were hit (but you'd take 0 damage), if the blocker is actively casting a spell.  -should also trigger spell interruptions from *Evades*

-The problem isn't the parry-mages inherent offense (even if they had 30-40 SDI (pre focus spec nerf), it's the additional offense they gain by not being hit by weapon-based attacks,   this is why dexers only pvp in groups anymore, because they can't interrupt any parry-mage enough to stop the mage from killing them.

 so the dexer has to run away over and over and over until the ~32.5%x4-5 RNG allows them to land 4-5 hits in a row without the parry-mage healing at all.  it's boring as hell.   so everyone plays a tank-mage because they have the best of both worlds on the offensive side, and better defense than any non-parry template.  it's just stupid and it was pointed out when those changes were being tested on TC before it went live many years ago... How it's taken this long for something to happen to Parry is ridiculous.

Cookie said:

So the quick fix is;
Take Parry off the Focussed skills banned list.

Add Bushido, and all Weapon skills to the list of banned skills for a Focussed Mage.

With a bit of thought to Parry Mastery that maybe OP, so add just the Mastery to the List of Banned.

   I don't agree with weapon skills counting against focus spec and Bushido already does count against it.    The reason is because that would ensure bok-mages would be the only mages with a weapon skill (which are already the meta btw, so they don't need more reasons to be a bok-mage) and no 'reasonable' change is going to make pure/focused-mages (whatever you want to call them) viable against them without Parry/Evade being nerfed.

It would make more sense to just require Magery Mastery to be active in order to be a focus spec mage.   if masteries become part of it anyway.

I'm not sure I was aware Bushido was part of the magical lines. It should be, but I did not realise. (or I have forgotten).

Dexxers usually have Bushido these days - this means they are evading way over 50% of heavy vital mage dumps - this is your spell damage evade that is equivalent to your weapon misses.

Weapon Skills have to be removed from Focussed mages. The weapon specials, and unlimited damage requiring no mana or stamina, mean a mage can damage forever with these, unlike when their mana runs out. The trade-off is, mages can do high damage, that hits a lot (except when evaded, resisted, disturbed, stunned, out of range, out of line of sight - which is most of the time), but they run out of mana - weapons allow unlimited hits, which breaks the trade-off. There is just nothing focussed mage, about someone carrying weapons, from a logical point of view. Weapons give mages too much. Magery gives warriors too much.

In the way you see parry as being the issue - I see weapon skills, not parry, as being the issue. Parry is purely defensive. Weapon Skills - are an entire extra line of attack, designed for warriors.

Yes, I thought about doing the entire spreadsheet, but that would have been a lot of work, I tried to summarise.

And you made a good point in the Naming, I had thought about it - the difference between a Pure Mage, and a Focussed Mage. Pure Mage - may almost be only the top one - Scribe - and may in fact have no Parry - and would rely on Wrestle.

The rest below, would be Focussed.

Cookie said:

Dexxers usually have Bushido these days - this means they are evading way over 50% of heavy vital mage dumps - this is your spell damage evade that is equivalent to your weapon misses.

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

Dexxers usually have Bushido these days - this means they are evading way over 50% of heavy vital mage dumps - this is your spell damage evade that is equivalent to your weapon misses.

   your argument fell apart here.    There are more mages with Evasion than there are Dexers.

 

Not where I'm from 🙂

Remembering of course - Bok/Swords mages, are dexxers as well. Anything with a weapon imo. Bushido Archers etc. Sampires ofc.

But either way - Bushido is recognised as an issue, combined with Magery, doesn't matter what we both call it.

Which reminds me.

Warrior weapon swings - should use Stamina.

This can be replenished partly via the existing Greater Stamina Potions via VvV reward.
As well as Chivalry Divine Fury, Greater Refresh potions etc.

In the same way Mages, have to use Mana Draught, or Magery Mastery to replenish Mana - or use up an entire skill - Meditation.

There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.

Cookie said:

Which reminds me.

Warrior weapon swings - should use Stamina.

This can be replenished partly via the existing Greater Stamina Potions via VvV reward.
As well as Chivalry Divine Fury, Greater Refresh potions etc.

In the same way Mages, have to use Mana Draught, or Magery Mastery to replenish Mana - or use up an entire skill - Meditation.

There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.

Cookie said:
There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:
There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.

   ooh, not sure about that one, a potion that requires X amount of 'magery' to consume?  that would help any mage with a weapon skill too....

 Besides, if you really wanted a way to restore mana... Magery Mastery has that.

 I get it, shield-bash is better, so you'd rather have that, right? -I don't blame you.

I don't use shield bash, the magery mana regen mastery is once every 30 minutes, not that helpful. It could do with coming down to 10-15 minutes to be more viable.

I've already suggested Parry Mastery can be nerfed, by taking it off the Focussed Mage list - NOT the Parry Skill itself, only the Parry Mastery. Re-thinking this - I am not sure about this - Warriors have any number of stuns, Mages should be allowed equivalent - considering how much Parry costs them.

I suggest Mages should use Magery Mastery - we do use it - for the passive increased summon strength, and the Regen is almost pointless due to the cooldown. I do in fact use Magery Mastery on my mystic - it is almost pointless for me. I use SW mastery on SW Mage. Wrestle Mastery should be an option for pvp pure mages - with an improved Nerve Strike style stun.

I have also suggested Wrestle Mastery gets a buff, to be a viable option for Mages, to be able to drop Parry.

CovenantX said:

Cookie said:

Which reminds me.

Warrior weapon swings - should use Stamina.

This can be replenished partly via the existing Greater Stamina Potions via VvV reward.
As well as Chivalry Divine Fury, Greater Refresh potions etc.

In the same way Mages, have to use Mana Draught, or Magery Mastery to replenish Mana - or use up an entire skill - Meditation.

There should in fact be - an easier way for Mages to gather Mana Refresh potions - when you compare the ease with which a warrior can obtain their vital potions.

   That sounds fair,.  -weapon swings = stamina loss...  It'll make stam-leech much more useful in pvp     -maybe weapon specials should consume stamina & mana when used.

 However, that'll nerf dexers (non-mages) that are already at a disadvantage (Due to Parry being part of every template), as well as tank-mages.

To add to this.

If it nerfs Warriors too hard - look at those implications.

Back to add a bit more.

Warriors have Battle Focus, Mages lose a lot when they decide to drop Med, warriors lose barely anything dropping Focus.

Warriors need to have more focus on their Stamina, and Stamina regens, which would subtract from their ability to go so deep into the Mage Trees.

CovenantX said:

and as I said in my previous post, the change you seem to be advocating for (since the sheet isn't complete) would be an ever so slight buff to Parry-Mage with inscribe (weapon skill, wrestling, anatomy aren't visible there) being 35% SDI, is literally only 5% SDI more than they have now.   That won't be enough to change anything.   it might affect a character of yours, but no one is going to change to that from a bok-mage. you'd lose too much offense AND defense for 5% SDI, that's like 1-3 (and about 2-6 with Curse) points of damage depending on the circle spell you cast.

You say it would barely be enough to change anything...

Yet they saw fit to make this nerf, and wipe out all Pure Mages from pvp?

I'm now clarifying btw - Pure Mage would not have Parry, and would have Scribe/Wrestle. That would be the only 35% SDI option. I would hope a Wrestle Buff would also come in somewhere. Either raise the Wrestle DCI value, or add in the Wrestle complimenting Spellbook I suggested as a reward.

Focussed Mages would be the Tree below, the main change for them, they would be able to have Parry, and not Weap Skills.

You say Parry has Shield Bash - Parry also loses Mages a massive percentage (42%){84/200} of their entire mana pool and casting ability, they can barely manage a shield bash. It also loses them SDI. Due to not being able to reach 150 INT, they can lose more SDI.

Mages currently usually have 20% SDI in pvp now? This would allow up to 35% - which is 15% increase.

Cookie said:

You say it would barely be enough to change anything...

Yet they saw fit to make this nerf, and wipe out all Pure Mages from pvp?

I'm now clarifying btw - Pure Mage would not have Parry, and would have Scribe/Wrestle. That would be the only 35% SDI option. I would hope a Wrestle Buff would also come in somewhere. Either raise the Wrestle DCI value, or add in the Wrestle complimenting Spellbook I suggested as a reward.

Focussed Mages would be the Tree below, the main change for them, they would be able to have Parry, and not Weap Skills.

You say Parry has Shield Bash - Parry also loses Mages a massive percentage (42%){84/200} of their entire mana pool and casting ability, they can barely manage a shield bash. It also loses them SDI. Due to not being able to reach 150 INT, they can lose more SDI.

Mages currently usually have 20% SDI in pvp now? This would allow up to 35% - which is 15% increase.

but, even if it were the jump from 20% (which most bok-mage currently have) to 35% (+15%) there would be no change because it's already a possibility on the exact 'pure-mage' you mention and no one is using it.  giving up evasion,  nerve (damage & para) as well as confidence. that's a lot to give up for around 3-9 damage (it's usually ~1-3 dmg points for every 5% SDI depending on circle spell)

CovenantX said:

 They nerfed pure-mages (Focus spec mages) by changing focus spec down from 30 to 25% SDI, while bumping non-focus spec up from 15 to 20% SDI, in addition, Tactics req- for specials was reduced (keep in mind, at the time the meta, was Wrestle/Parry on every mage because nothing else had the SDI to kill anything) and Global loot brought us to where we are now.

& Parry added to break focus spec, when the extra defense going to mages that didnt need it because their offense was already better than everything else was the real issue with parry being available at full potential on mages the whole time. (as was also pointed out during testing, in several different eras of UO)

 Dex Requirement- (I actually would like to see this as well as the Parry penalty if you use a shield & have bushido, removed completely), Only with a nerf to parry of course.

-you could literally reforge/+imbue a full set of armor with with 1-2 artifact pieces (likely cuffs/halo) looted jewelry and have 80 dex (including agility pots) while having the absolute minimum 'real' dexterity, in order to gain the full benefit of parry without giving up any mana or HP, the sacrifice is even less if you use full legendary suits (which everyone is) and somehow that doesn't factor in...    -200 mana is more than most of my pvp mages, I generally run around 160-180 (non-elf), I really only run into mana issues when I'm at a choke-point fight, like a 2+ guild spawn or a harrower where 'fielding' is necessary..  and so I shouldn't be taking a character without at least a mana regen skill (focus) cause /fk med.

I stand by my claim that the SDI change for a 'pure'mage' isn't enough.  I mean, after you clarified that the 'pure mage' wouldn't have Parry, it makes what I said even truer.. you can make that now with 35% SDI.     -without the minor 'undisarmable spellbooks', unless there are other changes you're applying suggested here or elsewhere on top of it.

20-30% SDI is non-focus spec, With inscribe  -I actually have a few of these, but that's me.

25-35% is Focus spec With Inscribe, it's a 5% increase. it wouldn't be worth it, to anyone.

but, even if it were the jump from 20% (which most bok-mage currently have) to 35% (+15%) there would be no change because it's already a possibility on the exact 'pure-mage' you mention and no one is using it.  giving up evasion,  nerve (damage & para) as well as confidence. that's a lot to give up for around 3-9 damage (it's usually ~1-3 dmg points for every 5% SDI depending on circle spell)

Responding to your bit specifically in Bold.
You say, this in itself would not be enough of a fix.

I also made a suggestion for an Offensive Mage Spellbook reward, that would compliment and enhance the Wrestle ability. Again - Atomic Betty said something along the lines of - this will not fix Pure Mages, nothing can fix Pure Mages, because there are always templates that can fit more in.

I get your points.

• However - my above solution re Pure and Focussed Mage skill-list - AND this Spellbook reward - leading to an incremental improvement in Wrestling and the Wrestling Mastery - are meant to be taken together - tell me what you think, I think it is awesome 🙂

• The 2 together, would have me playing on a Pure Mage I believe.

• This is novel - because an Offensive Spell book does not exist.

• It also allows stacking with Alchemical Bracers.

• It can be disarmed - the same way as Warriors can be Disarmed - which is completely fair - and fine - Disarming this, would negate a chunk of the Mages offence, without critically taking out their defence - this is fine, and fair, Warriors go through the same when Disarmed.

• With this approach - I do not need to go with the Suggestion of making the Main-Hand Spellbook non-Disarmable, with this suggestion it is perfectly fair for the Spellbook to be Disarmed.

• Mage Spellbooks that exist in todays game have all of a Mages basic fundamental properties on, causing the mage to be severely restricted if Disarmed. I understand with current Spellbooks, players asking for them to be non-disarmable, but I consider this too much of a game-changing mechanic, and have instead tried to think around this.
• I also noted, and supported a Crafting Mechanic, and improvements to Imbuing or Scribe, that allow for Spellbooks to be customised to greater depth, and Imbuing to have more options re Properties - ie the Missing ones. And maybe more points available.

Developing the concept of my PvP Spellbook.

Reward;
Spellbook;
HCI 15%
Hit Lightning 50%.
Splinter 30%.
Hit Lower Defence 50%.

Title; Alea's glass spellbook of splintering.
Or; Wraith's spellbook of Soul Destruction 

Design - a very cool glass-like translucent style spellbook - put your best artist on it 

Reward point drops. Make it seriously expensive and elite - 1,000 points is fine.

Nerfing, adding items and unbalancing things isn’t worth it in my opinion. The net effect on participation is likely to be in the wrong direction. Just add some content to fight over make ‘fel’ points with different rewards in your treasure of events, make vvv more meaningful, add leaderboards etc 

Cookie said:

I also made a suggestion for an Offensive Mage Spellbook reward, that would compliment and enhance the Wrestle ability. Again - Atomic Betty said something along the lines of - this will not fix Pure Mages, nothing can fix Pure Mages, because there are always templates that can fit more in.

I get your points.

• However - my above solution re Pure and Focussed Mage skill-list - AND this Spellbook reward - leading to an incremental improvement in Wrestling and the Wrestling Mastery - are meant to be taken together - tell me what you think, I think it is awesome 🙂

• The 2 together, would have me playing on a Pure Mage I believe.

• This is novel - because an Offensive Spell book does not exist.

• It also allows stacking with Alchemical Bracers.

• It can be disarmed - the same way as Warriors can be Disarmed - which is completely fair - and fine - Disarming this, would negate a chunk of the Mages offence, without critically taking out their defence - this is fine, and fair, Warriors go through the same when Disarmed.

• With this approach - I do not need to go with the Suggestion of making the Main-Hand Spellbook non-Disarmable, with this suggestion it is perfectly fair for the Spellbook to be Disarmed.

• Mage Spellbooks that exist in todays game have all of a Mages basic fundamental properties on, causing the mage to be severely restricted if Disarmed. I understand with current Spellbooks, players asking for them to be non-disarmable, but I consider this too much of a game-changing mechanic, and have instead tried to think around this.
• I also noted, and supported a Crafting Mechanic, and improvements to Imbuing or Scribe, that allow for Spellbooks to be customised to greater depth, and Imbuing to have more options re Properties - ie the Missing ones. And maybe more points available.

Developing the concept of my PvP Spellbook.

Reward;
Spellbook;
HCI 15%
Hit Lightning 50%.
Splinter 30%.
Hit Lower Defence 50%.

Title; Alea's glass spellbook of splintering.
Or; Wraith's spellbook of Soul Destruction 

Design - a very cool glass-like translucent style spellbook - put your best artist on it 

Reward point drops. Make it seriously expensive and elite - 1,000 points is fine.

CovenantX said:

 I'd also prefer for splintering weapon to only have the 'forced walk' affect, without the bleed ticks though, as I posted earlier in this thread.  -Splintering Weapon has become the most important property a weapon can get.  It also causes 'Bleed' to be completely useless.

Covfefe said:

CovenantX said:

 I'd also prefer for splintering weapon to only have the 'forced walk' affect, without the bleed ticks though, as I posted earlier in this thread.  -Splintering Weapon has become the most important property a weapon can get.  It also causes 'Bleed' to be completely useless.

is that true though?

wiki states this under splintering:

Stacks with the regular bleed effect to cause additional damage and extend the duration of the special attack

source https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/items/magic-item-properties/

Covfefe said:

people have never used bleed for damage. It's for disturb, the top players still use it. Plus there is another property blood drinker that utilizes it. Nothing wrong with bleed at all. 

I don't think they need to change anything with pvp templates, there are currently a lot of varied templates and that aspect works really well, amazingly well actually if you consider how difficult it is to balance things.

just fix some bugs.

The most complained about ones are:

shuriken spamming bug

the bug where blues can go orange, die, lose their orange status and reflag on people after they have been killed without turning orange again.

Shuriken is a "client" issue not a bug 

Covfefe said:

people have never used bleed for damage. It's for disturb, the top players still use it. Plus there is another property blood drinker that utilizes it. Nothing wrong with bleed at all. 

I don't think they need to change anything with pvp templates, there are currently a lot of varied templates and that aspect works really well, amazingly well actually if you consider how difficult it is to balance things.

just fix some bugs.

The most complained about ones are:

shuriken spamming bug

the bug where blues can go orange, die, lose their orange status and reflag on people after they have been killed without turning orange again.

I have removed some posts that were pulling this thread off topic and edited one

Where does it actually say on the uo.com website that we’re allowed to use UOAssist? 

Given that all the references to balance issues concerning the EC movement speed have been removed by forum moderator, I’m willing to bet the forum moderator plays EC.

bulldoglegion said:

I will add my thoughts. I think they are a very different take to what's been posted so far. 

The first thing is PvP is generated by end game players wanting to fight each other. Expect them to go for good gear that gives marginal gains over what you need to PvM. 

At the moment there is very little objective based content to fight over - champ spawns, harrowers, and towns are the only examples. 

The player base for PvP is spread out amongst the shards with most PvPers being on multiple shards and in several guilds simply to get a limited number of fights. 

There are some templates which are better in 1v1 situations but in larger fights positioning and teamwork via the use of voice coms and map programs become much more important than templates and the use of certain spells and items so if the intent is to make large scale PvP fun then I would stay away from changing any of this. 

To improve PvP I would suggest player funnelling i.e. linking a series of automated daily / weekly / weekend events and a monthly EM event that add points to a leader board. I would have the equivalent of a power hour linked by an offset of the shards maintenance time so that the PvP on that shard goes 'hot' at a certain time and where shards are in the same time zone I would alternate this time. 

So you would for example have a leader board for players and their guilds which could simply be the VvV board repurposed. The rankings could come from controlling a town in the VvV system, completing a particular champ at a particular time, killing opponents on an elo system (kill/assist as in VvV), reintroduce some of the elements of the faction system for example traps in town, give points to guilds holding towns and make VvV facet wide so people can fight across the map and not sit at Luna bank.  

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

Skittlez1337 said:

bulldoglegion said:

I will add my thoughts. I think they are a very different take to what's been posted so far. 

The first thing is PvP is generated by end game players wanting to fight each other. Expect them to go for good gear that gives marginal gains over what you need to PvM. 

At the moment there is very little objective based content to fight over - champ spawns, harrowers, and towns are the only examples. 

The player base for PvP is spread out amongst the shards with most PvPers being on multiple shards and in several guilds simply to get a limited number of fights. 

There are some templates which are better in 1v1 situations but in larger fights positioning and teamwork via the use of voice coms and map programs become much more important than templates and the use of certain spells and items so if the intent is to make large scale PvP fun then I would stay away from changing any of this. 

To improve PvP I would suggest player funnelling i.e. linking a series of automated daily / weekly / weekend events and a monthly EM event that add points to a leader board. I would have the equivalent of a power hour linked by an offset of the shards maintenance time so that the PvP on that shard goes 'hot' at a certain time and where shards are in the same time zone I would alternate this time. 

So you would for example have a leader board for players and their guilds which could simply be the VvV board repurposed. The rankings could come from controlling a town in the VvV system, completing a particular champ at a particular time, killing opponents on an elo system (kill/assist as in VvV), reintroduce some of the elements of the faction system for example traps in town, give points to guilds holding towns and make VvV facet wide so people can fight across the map and not sit at Luna bank.  

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @ Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

I'm the pvp em for Atlantic for our first event all pvpers will show up tonight 7 est at destard. naked the guild that kills champ wins 

Skittlez1337 said:

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @ Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

Why do you always need something to fight over, isn't it enough to just prove who is the best.

Lord_Frodo said:

Skittlez1337 said:

I already suggested we should have PvP em events at least on ATL and busiest Asian shard. Mesanna didn’t think it was a good idea. We as pvpers need content to fight over, yew gate PvP gets rather boring after a while. I don’t understand why we can’t have 2 events a month to PvP over. It seems super reasonable accommodation, considering we don’t even get the global event in fel anymore. @ Kyronix why can’t we get a PvP EM on ATL?

Why do you always need something to fight over, isn't it enough to just prove who is the best.

Again i point out having this discussion without addressing third-party clients ridiculous they have private area for NL make one for thos

 

ForeverFun said:

A few suggestions:

2. It should no longer be possible to use a trapped box to escape the effects of the paralyze spell.  After all, the target is paralyzed, they can't reach into a pack to use an item... (consider expanding this to preventing use of other consumables too, while paralyzed)

Lord_Frodo said:

Why do you always need something to fight over, isn't it enough to just prove who is the best.

I've never seen PvMer's kill bosses on the understanding there will be no loot or drops.

You should see the attendance difference between an EM event with drops, and an EM event without drops.

Please explain that, and then justify why you are expecting pvpers to be different?

We all need objectives.

Football pitches have goal-posts, to score goals in, you don't just put 22 players on a pitch, and they run around indefinitely until people have worked out who the best one is.

Cookie said:

Football pitches have goal-posts, to score goals in, you don't just put 22 players on a pitch, and they run around indefinitely until people have worked out who the best one is.

Mate you've never seen West Brom play then 😂

Covfefe said:

 

ForeverFun said:

A few suggestions:

2. It should no longer be possible to use a trapped box to escape the effects of the paralyze spell.  After all, the target is paralyzed, they can't reach into a pack to use an item... (consider expanding this to preventing use of other consumables too, while paralyzed)

i don't think you can use a consumable while paralyzed already (can when nerve striked). As for not being able to use a box, one person does para blow and another will cross field you in, would be very silly.

ForeverFun said:

1. It should no longer be possible to use a trapped box to escape the effects of the paralyze spell.  After all, the target is paralyzed, they can't reach into a pack to use an item... (consider expanding this to preventing use of other consumables too, while paralyzed)

can't use conflag, supernova, or enchanted apple while paralyzed

AtomicBetty said:

My opinion they shouldn't have infinite uses.

they dupe on demand infinite darts (explosion pots, poison pots) can be only small crates and work in one direction only. is bug?

I'm a little late in the discussion, idea said before and that I agree with

1)Make Tele rings paralyze the user while waiting for cursor to appear
2)Rebalance weapons to give non-bokuto weapons a purpose to be used
3)boost the damage  for poison strike
4) give  to spirit speak more hp went your healing your self and make a passive mana regen like focus
5) Parry Mastery - Shield-bash, should no longer proc Glenda's Bone Breaker
6) Splintering Weapon should no longer cause a target to bleed, instead it would only slow a targets movement speed.
7)the bug where blues can go orange, die, lose their orange status and reflag on people after they have been killed without turning orange again.
8)fix the dart cooldown between belt

here few idea
1) change the meta ,we need more diversity and pvp content
2)the bokuto is way to powerful versu any other weapons .it's fast ,hit hard ,paralyse and can splintering .maybe make the weapons 2 heanded and slower or make nerve strike only paralises.
3) after getting splintering ,i should be able to remove the bleed and heal with a bandage .
4)remove bleed from splintering
5)make tamer useful in pvp its 240 skill that give almost nothing .its not normal that i can stand in front of pet and just walk aways
they need a boost of damage and move a little bit faster .
6)its way to easy to foot someone with bola and you need 0 skill for.am not sure if not already the case but you should need at least 45 hci and if you teleport you should lose your bola .
7)let people chose the town buff they need and give its the same option in fel
8)remove all fast cast if bushido is mix with any casting school .
9) kill the meta

ezikel said:

6)its way to easy to foot someone with bola and you need 0 skill for.am not sure if not already the case but you should need at least 45 hci and if you teleport you should lose your bola .

The bola was supposed to have been fixed years ago where success depended on having a wep skill and skill level. 

I agree with everything else you mentioned. Especially an increase to pets. 


My personal views:

I know this would be a pain in the ass to code but i'd personally like to see all damage, casting and melee, have a damage scale between having real skill and +skill. I feel that would balance and offer more variety to people. (only with pvp)

Pure mages and 1 tile pure warriors need a bump. Ranged only a slight bump. Be mindful of chiv with the warrior or fisters will be the fotm again. Necro needs a major increase. Mystic a slight increase. Lower casting speed of cleansing winds just a little. 

Increase damage of other wep specials to be put on par with ai and nerve. 

For the love of the game, un-nerf the ninja. They were handicapped from the start. 

Make Powerscrolls shard bound, like what people have been asking for ages

Covfefe said:

Make Powerscrolls shard bound, like what people have been asking for ages

Wont fix anything.  Masteries shard bound just xfer to shard and eat.  Pet power scrolls shard bound didn't fix anything, just take your pet to shard and apply.

Lord_Frodo said:

Covfefe said:

Make Powerscrolls shard bound, like what people have been asking for ages

Wont fix anything.  Masteries shard bound just xfer to shard and eat.  Pet power scrolls shard bound didn't fix anything, just take your pet to shard and apply.

People have to spend gold on smaller shards it fixes everything and there are no shard bound pet power scrolls 

Grimbeard said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Covfefe said:

Make Powerscrolls shard bound, like what people have been asking for ages

Wont fix anything.  Masteries shard bound just xfer to shard and eat.  Pet power scrolls shard bound didn't fix anything, just take your pet to shard and apply.

People have to spend gold on smaller shards it fixes everything and there are no shard bound pet power scrolls 

OMFG  Are you joking, yes there were shard bound pet power scrolls.  What game are you playing.  What a joke.

Lord_Frodo said:

Grimbeard said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Covfefe said:

Make Powerscrolls shard bound, like what people have been asking for ages

Wont fix anything.  Masteries shard bound just xfer to shard and eat.  Pet power scrolls shard bound didn't fix anything, just take your pet to shard and apply.

People have to spend gold on smaller shards it fixes everything and there are no shard bound pet power scrolls 

OMFG  Are you joking, yes there were shard bound pet power scrolls.  What game are you playing.  What a joke.

"Sigh" the only shard bound ps ever are fron khaldun 

Covfefe said:

I'm not really a fan of the general tone of calling people cheaters and criminalizing those who play 2d. Especially the use of the term 'illegal'.

Mesanna herself said she prefers 2d.

If the standard installation of EC didn't work, and you had to download someone else's UI, someone who volunteered their time and resources for the love of the game, just to play the game as its intended to play. I don't think you would appreciate the tone of these labels. (There's only a minority of players that abuse the advanced features.)

And yet this is the case for all the people playing on 2d. It's not the players fault that the devs haven't fixed any bugs for years, even though the players have paid $ their monthly subscription. As demonstrated in this thread https://forum.uo.com/discussion/12986/help-with-uoa-2d the standard install is unplayable for PvP, even after paying nonrefundable $ for UOAssist.

Also looking at the list of reported bugs, it seems the players have done everything they can to show extremely detailed reproducible bug reports, which seem to have been ignored. What option do players have?

Well Mesanna could say 3rd party clients were ok like selling accounts..

Should be forced to show guild tag in fel

Lynk said:

6.) Dismount immunity cool down of 60 seconds in conjunction with treating pet statues like pet balls, where there is an interruptible freezing period to get the pet to pop up.  

Pls add horse slayer property
and
gets off mount to instant heavy Xbow dismount [add big remount delay here even if didn’t hit].  No penalty, instant running dismount.  Miss a bola, there is a delay - should be same with xbow

Covfefe said:

Some people are complaining about ward removal talismans,

I'm not really sure what to suggest.

But currently people are stacking a lot of them on mannequins/vendor paperdolls to recharge them and using them one after another.

Not sure if that is the intended way they're supposed to be used.

IDEA

how about, drop the base damage of spells vs players and raise the SDI cap so you effectively need say 100 spell damage increase on items to deal normal spell damage.

This would not only make PvP mages better for PvM. And visa versa.

I just want to say again that TOT events are adding way to much skill increase to the game.  Can we please get skill increases capped before before stuff gets broken and it's to late to fix?

Covfefe said:

IDEA

how about, drop the base damage of spells vs players and raise the SDI cap so you effectively need say 100 spell damage increase on items to deal normal spell damage.

This would not only make PvP mages better for PvM. And visa versa.

Will make templates be less hybrid. 

As hard to get both 100 damage increase AND 100 sdi. Also hard to get a lot of +skill. (And warriors would not deal so much damage with hit lightning effect without lots of sdi)

just an idea but I think there’s some value here.

Decent idea. 🙂

AtomicBetty said:

I just want to say again that TOT events are adding way to much skill increase to the game.  Can we please get skill increases capped before before stuff gets broken and it's to late to fix?

I think we are beyond this point already. 🙂

And also, TOT event items in themselves, are not making +skill situation worse I do not believe?

Cookie said:

AtomicBetty said:

I just want to say again that TOT events are adding way to much skill increase to the game.  Can we please get skill increases capped before before stuff gets broken and it's to late to fix?

I think we are beyond this point already. 🙂

And also, TOT event items in themselves, are not making +skill situation worse I do not believe?

There are boots that give 10 skill, gloves 15 skill. Each piece like the Tunic with FCR 1 allow for more flexibility in jewellery slots to maximize skill increase.  If certain pieces in the future get released with more useful skill combination (+10 alchemy apron)  the amount of skill increase without sacrificing core stats is insanely high.

Why doesn't wrestling disarm have the same timer as a weapon disarm. seems a lil unbalanced if you can just nonstop disarm anyone around you with no timer at all.

I'm sorry but how can you have a discussion about pvp and not allow discussion of 3rd party programs? JUst because you dont talk about fight club doesnt mean it isn't a problem and it doesnt exist

Do not discuss unapproved 3rd party programs or clients.  This is something on our radar and we aren't going to discuss any action we are taking publicly.  If you want to comment on this topic email uo@broadsword.com