Ultima Online has a streamer problem

(Bail out of this thread now if you don’t want to read an essay.)

Let’s talk about a problem that OSI UO has in context to the greater gaming landscape. OSI UO needs streamers.

To preface this, I’m late to the video game streaming party. I’m from the generation where nothing is more aggravating than watching your cousin hog the NES controller as he gets Mario killed over and over. Watching others play a video game was a very foreign concept to me for the longest time, but over the past year I’ve begun to grasp how integral to modern gaming it has become. I want to discuss why it’s so integral and why there is a tremendous issue with UO OSI streaming on Twitch.

In short: there are not nearly enough OSI streamers, these streamers are not supported by the game’s marketing strategy (such as it is), and what streamers there are are completely choked out by bootleg shard competition.

First, let’s take a quick survey of what OSI streamers are currently at work on Twitch. I know there may be other platforms but I’m only going to focus on Twitch here because of the ways in which the platform’s affordances help illuminate the issue. Twitch is a problematic platform for many reasons, but one can’t deny the place it occupies in modern gaming. Also, this is not an indictment of the few UO OSI streamer’s efforts. They are small islands within a sea of content and do their best.

On Atlantic we have Waffles_McGreggor who does stream semi-regularly, articulates specific goals for the stream, and uses the EC. They’re probably the largest remaining Atlantic streamer. There were others who have left for bootleg shards, ones who stream Atlantic so inconsistently so as to not bother mentioning, and ones who unfortunately have stepped away from the activity.

KittieKitsuneko mostly streams EM events. Unfortunately, while their content is tagged under the Ultima Online category they limit viewing their past streams to only people who pay to subscribe.

Southern_dreams is a small channel without a lot of followers, but also seems to mostly stream EM events as a record of the proceedings. This is a needed function and I’m glad they do it, but there’s not any “putting on a show” with them.

For a hot minute, EpicLuteGaming was probably the OSI streamer making the most hay on the platform with a very active community, 100+ viewers on streams, and regular content. Things seemed to be going great here but it looks like a hiatus and some life changes have forced them away from UO streaming and streaming video games in general.

These are just some of the few I’ve found by scrolling back through the Twitch Ultima Online category. Which brings me to the first major issue OSI UO streaming has. There is no category distinction between OSI shards and bootleg shards. This is a monumental issue as “Ultima Online” searches either on the platform or in Google will bring up bootleg shards first. I’m not trying to knock these other shards, but, for the health of our game it would be better if there was a clear distinction between OSI and other shards on the platform, beyond what the creators put into their video titles and metadata. On more than one occasion I’ve watched people come into EpicLute’s stream and ask “which shard is this?” or some flavor of “Is this BOOTLEG shard?” just to need to be corrected. Now, is this a Broadsword issue or a Twitch issue? Who determines how these categories are joined? Could this issue be resolved with someone from Broadsword speaking to the Twitch gaming representatives and asking for a fix? It’s hard to find these few OSI streamers as their content is consistently drowned out.

A second major issue is there is no public engagement from our team with what streamers are out there. I think this sort of “hands-off, no favoritism” policy works in an internet 1.0 era, but we’re well into the age of community engagement with creators. OSI streamers should be encouraged and supported, even if in minor ways. Our team should be comfortable with the potential benefits and, of course, likely warts to arise from throwing a little light on the community. This could be accomplished with a streamer spotlight on the homepage and/or launcher. They could intentionally reach out to creators before the TC publishes hit and invite them to preview the content on the day so creators have some notice to prepare. There are many, many ways a more “community managed” mindset could benefit the game via the involvement of streamers.

So what do we lose by not doing these things? What is so wrong with the status quo? Not amplifying the ways that modern gamers discover games is a choice that our team has made and can continue to make. Don’t mistake me, I believe that this choice is probably intentional and not made in haste. They likely have very valid reasons. I’m simply arguing that as gaming has changed so should the ways our game finds an audience. I do not believe that new gamers can not come to UO. I do not believe that the only people who can find and stay in our game are returning vets. We can find both these kinds of people, though, by going to where the audience is. The audience is out there, right now, on these gaming platforms. 

Do we really want the world seeing how broken and poorly ran things are?

Grimbeard said:

Do we really want the world seeing how broken and poorly ran things are?

Hi. That's not what I'm discussing in this thread, and I'd prefer you not try and derail the conversation right off the bat with another shallow critique of the game's dev team. You can start your own thread for that, or, close your accounts.

If you want to talk about what you'd like to see the dev team do to appeal to streamers constructively, please, go for it. Or, if you have no ideas to contribute there, maybe share what streamers on twitch or the other platforms you're in to and discuss why their content works.

UO does not really market itself to new players or provide them with any reason to play the game once they are here.  New players without mentors or friends that can provide them with the resources and knowledge they need to play the game simply leave for games that provide a much better playing experience to new players.  Returning players know how to play the game and they enjoyed it before.  Also, the game offers them something.  They can get their developed players and old accounts back.  That’s my opinion.  As a new player about four years ago, I only stuck with the game because I enjoyed the UO stand alone games I played many years ago and I needed a game that was easier on my hands than a more modern game would be.  I have not seen any evidence that UO is making any attempt to attract new players.  UO’s attitude seems to be more that players have to prove to UO they deserve to play the game.  Maybe, that marketing strategy worked years ago when there were not many alternatives, but do not see it being very successful  today.  Maybe NL.

I have watched YouTube videos from time to time.  They run the range from very good to not so good.  Generally they are hard to follow for a newbie as the text is small and moves fast making it hard to read on screen.  It’s often hard to figure out what’s going on, on screen.  But, some of the narrated ones are quite good and UO could use these kinds of videos to attract new players if it had someone on staff that knew how to make instructional videos.

I guess to one line it, I just don’t any evidence UO is even interested in attracting new players.  I appreciate that EA continues to make the game available to those players that have enjoyed the game for so many years.

I was aware of your backups on YouTube, but I didn't want to be like "go there and get around their paywall!" as I figured you had the past streams set to subscriber only for a reason. Looking back at some channels, is there like a difference in tier support or something for archival? I see that some of Patrick's streams go back two months, and others, like you said, go only a few weeks.

And, yes, my comments above are more about what the game could be doing as opposed to trying to rouse people to be streamers. I certainly couldn't be one. But at the bare minimum that category distinction on twitch would probably do a lot to help creators like you and encourage others into the space. 

You had so many ads when I used to watch your stream, are you a UO streamer or a NordVPN salesman?  The fact your stream is behind a paywall now is very distasteful to me.  Can people just do things because they love something instead of trying to make money off it and running 5 minutes of ads on their streams?  Also, when I watched you always seemed to be very critical of the EMs on Great Lakes, which are actually great EMs.  I'd love for you to stream the Chesapeake EM events and see your critique of their events.

Jepeth said:

I was aware of your backups on YouTube, but I didn't want to be like "go there and get around their paywall!" as I figured you had the past streams set to subscriber only for a reason. Looking back at some channels, is there like a difference in tier support or something for archival? I see that some of Patrick's streams go back two months, and others, like you said, go only a few weeks.

And, yes, my comments above are more about what the game could be doing as opposed to trying to rouse people to be streamers. I certainly couldn't be one. But at the bare minimum that category distinction on twitch would probably do a lot to help creators like you and encourage others into the space. 

No worries, I literally put them up that for that reason, so people could still watch them, they would be archived longer and not have to pay to see old stuff that gets deleted every 2 weeks. It's not set for any other reason than Twitch recommendation. A moot point IMO, if they just delete old streams anyway.
So, I am an affiliate, so my streams last 2 weeks, I believe Partner, theirs last longer. But to get Partner, you have to have x amount of followers, stream x amount of days for x amount of time. At that point, they consider it, you're making it your JOB to stream. And for most big name streamers that's absolutely true. But for us small fish, no way.
And even then, most of those streamers have other means to make up lost wages if they get sick or if their numbers start to dip (merch, donations, etc). Most of us streamers are moving to Patreon now to make up revenue, since it's a solid means for people to support  you with out someone in between taking most of that money (Twitch and YouTube take a CHUNK of any money you make.. making it seem like you are getting no where as a dedicated streamer. For example, I WOULD be making money streaming, But I see NONE of it, because of "Twitch Fee's" and what not.).
Unfortunately, this is why a lot of people don't stream older games, because it seems only the PvP games and newer games make the best content.
I stream UO because I LOVE UO and I love interacting with people! I find the events SUPER fun and the stories really involved! So for me? It's a hobby. A well LOVED hobby. 🙂

Violet said:

You had so many ads when I used to watch your stream, are you a UO streamer or a NordVPN salesman?  The fact your stream is behind a paywall now is very distasteful to me.  Can people just do things because they love something instead of trying to make money off it and running 5 minutes of ads on their streams?  Also, when I watched you always seemed to be very critical of the EMs on Great Lakes, which are actually great EMs.  I'd love for you to stream the Chesapeake EM events and see your critique of their events.

I do not put the ads up, Twitch does. They decide when an ad goes up, I do not. I COULD, but I simply don't. It would break the stream up and people would miss things.
I do not sell NordVPN, I am an affiliate, which boils down to, if people click and use it, I make a couple bucks. Nothing more, nothing less.
The idea of a "paywall" I didn't agree with, but that was Twitch's recommendation after making Affiliate. Which is why I upload to YouTube, so people CAN watch them for FREE.
I am a bit critical when it calls to be. I'm not going to shout everything is perfect, kittens and rainbows at every moment. People like me (so I've been told in messages and on streams) for my honesty. I'm not going to say "x did something, that's GREAT!" when it's clearly NOT.
If you want kittens and rainbows 100% of the time, then I'm NOT the streamer for you.

Kittie said:

Jepeth said:

I was aware of your backups on YouTube, but I didn't want to be like "go there and get around their paywall!" as I figured you had the past streams set to subscriber only for a reason. Looking back at some channels, is there like a difference in tier support or something for archival? I see that some of Patrick's streams go back two months, and others, like you said, go only a few weeks.

And, yes, my comments above are more about what the game could be doing as opposed to trying to rouse people to be streamers. I certainly couldn't be one. But at the bare minimum that category distinction on twitch would probably do a lot to help creators like you and encourage others into the space. 

No worries, I literally put them up that for that reason, so people could still watch them, they would be archived longer and not have to pay to see old stuff that gets deleted every 2 weeks. It's not set for any other reason than Twitch recommendation. A moot point IMO, if they just delete old streams anyway.
So, I am an affiliate, so my streams last 2 weeks, I believe Partner, theirs last longer

Slight add-on to this since I stream as well (not UO, though I did think about switching to it for the LS event last night): If you have Twitch Prime/Prime Gaming, you also have the ability to save your vods for 2 months.  Saving them as a highlight is an option, though I admit that it's not really feasible for every stream (Especially when Twitch doesn't allow for comments on vods anymore)

drcossack said:

Kittie said:

Jepeth said:

I was aware of your backups on YouTube, but I didn't want to be like "go there and get around their paywall!" as I figured you had the past streams set to subscriber only for a reason. Looking back at some channels, is there like a difference in tier support or something for archival? I see that some of Patrick's streams go back two months, and others, like you said, go only a few weeks.

And, yes, my comments above are more about what the game could be doing as opposed to trying to rouse people to be streamers. I certainly couldn't be one. But at the bare minimum that category distinction on twitch would probably do a lot to help creators like you and encourage others into the space. 

No worries, I literally put them up that for that reason, so people could still watch them, they would be archived longer and not have to pay to see old stuff that gets deleted every 2 weeks. It's not set for any other reason than Twitch recommendation. A moot point IMO, if they just delete old streams anyway.
So, I am an affiliate, so my streams last 2 weeks, I believe Partner, theirs last longer

Slight add-on to this since I stream as well (not UO, though I did think about switching to it for the LS event last night): If you have Twitch Prime/Prime Gaming, you also have the ability to save your vods for 2 months.  Saving them as a highlight is an option, though I admit that it's not really feasible for every stream (Especially when Twitch doesn't allow for comments on vods anymore)

Yea, it's not feasible for every stream, as you said, especially when twitch doesn't allow for comments. I just find it easier to upload them to another platform, where anyone can watch for free and comment.
I really dislike the idea that Twitch makes it increasingly more difficult for Affiliates to become Partners by further hindering what they can offer and do. They think that making everything "pay only!" for the streamer is going to "help" them, when in turn, it just turns people off and away. This is why I just move things to YouTube for people to still interact without the idea of paying to do so. I'm all about saving a buck here and there, why wouldn't the people who watch me want to do the same?

Sorry I don’t watch streamers or twitchers or for that matter even know what they are.  Thought we were talking about YouTube videos. Maybe for the benefit of at least one older player can you explain what we are talking about.  Would like to know were to look for your videos.  Thanks.

Arnold7 said:

Sorry I don’t watch streamers or twitchers or for that matter even know what they are.  Thought we were talking about YouTube videos. Maybe for the benefit of at least one older player can you explain what we are talking about.  Would like to know were to look for your videos.  Thanks.

 I believe it was basically about that Broadsword/OSI needs to stream the game more in an effort to gain more of a following(?). That there are a few Twitch Streamers, but not many who are well diverse in all areas of UO. But Jepeth could answer that better.
I'm personally on Twitch and YouTube as KittieKitsuneko. (twitch.tv/kittiekitsuneko and youtube.com/@kittiekitsuneko)

Kittie said:

 I believe it was basically about that Broadsword/OSI needs to stream the game more in an effort to gain more of a following(?). 

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating for Broadsword to hire streamers or anyway astroturf a steaming community. There's a world of difference between community management where streamers factor in to the game's plans and putting streamers on a payroll. There are pros and cons to this kind of system that I think we could all discuss, but for now I'm advocating for:

1. Broadsword working with Twitch on the Ultima Online category so as to differentiate between OSI shards and bootleg shards.
   
2. A policy where active OSI streamers are encouraged to talk about new things in the game. The example I gave was something as simple as (via a DM or a mailing) "Hey Streamers! Just FYI we're releasing Publish 116 onto TC this week if you'd like to take a look at the content." 
   
3. Offer the means for a "streamer spotlight" or something on the patcher or home page to drive players to this content. The model for this system already exists, there are fan pages listed on the homepage. I'm saying this system should be modernized for where gamers are now. 

keven2002 said:

@ Jepeth - Might have missed it in your original post but what do you hope to get out of streaming on a platform like Twitch compared to something like uploading a video on YouTube? Exposure to UO or tutorials to make the game more approachable? I'm not familiar with Twitch (although I did help Epic out with one of his posts) but I'd imagine YouTube would fall in the same category; unless it would be specifically targeting people who never have played?

So let me back up and maybe explain a bit more about twitch streaming cause I'm seeing a disconnect here in how folks view this.

Putting videos on YouTube is great, and excellent. As mentioned, they can be a resource to refer back to later for those to return to the game. I'm not advocating for tutorial creation, I'm advocating for community building.

Being a streamer implies an active community. It's not a passive experience for the viewer, like a YouTube video. A person watches the streamer stream the video game live and, ideally, takes part in the comments and community as it happens. If you haven't sat down and watched a live twitch stream, you probably aren't aware of how active and engaging of an experience this is. 

This is what I failed to grasp, too. As mentioned, I didn't get why folks liked watching others play video games until I sat and watched it happening and the community of viewers give and take with the performer. As an example, Patrick of EpicLuteGaming was pretty great at responding to the live comments during his live streams, answering questions, taking advice, and generally being active. That's the key difference between YouTube as a passive archive and Twitch (or similar platforms) and live content. Communities form around the broadcasts of the game. 

Maybe the best model for this is the difference between watching a comedy act live versus recorded. Both can be fun, but a live experience always offers more to the viewer. It's just straight up more fun.

Jepeth said:

Kittie said:

 I believe it was basically about that Broadsword/OSI needs to stream the game more in an effort to gain more of a following(?). 

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating for Broadsword to hire streamers or anyway astroturf a steaming community. There's a world of difference between community management where streamers factor in to the game's plans and putting streamers on a payroll. There are pros and cons to this kind of system that I think we could all discuss, but for now I'm advocating for:

1. Broadsword working with Twitch on the Ultima Online category so as to differentiate between OSI shards and bootleg shards.
   
2. A policy where active OSI streamers are encouraged to talk about new things in the game. The example I gave was something as simple as (via a DM or a mailing) "Hey Streamers! Just FYI we're releasing Publish 116 onto TC this week if you'd like to take a look at the content." 
   
3. Offer the means for a "streamer spotlight" or something on the patcher or home page to drive players to this content. The model for this system already exists, there are fan pages listed on the homepage. I'm saying this system should be modernized for where gamers are now. 

I agree with all 3 things you listed but I think right now only 1 & 3 are realistic. Again I don't want to come off as a negative Nancy but 2 would be a real hurdle given the Dev team's track record on communicating (period) and pushing out new content. Don't get me wrong I'm all for it and would subscribe simply for #2 to see what's new but I think that #2 would require more than 2 publishes a year & the same recycled dynamic content twice a year. The treasures of Archlich went onto TC back in like Sept 2022 and the newest content wasn't put on there until Feb (and even that was very limited)? I don't think the Dev team can wait 4-5 months in between "new" things for that to be successful.

keven2002 said:

I agree with all 3 things you listed but I think right now only 1 & 3 are realistic. Again I don't want to come off as a negative Nancy but 2 would be a real hurdle given the Dev team's track record on communicating (period) and pushing out new content. 

I hear that, but that was just an example I gave. #2 could be a grand as the big dynamic content cycles or even as granular as the EM events and community events of which happen every week.
The point here is what can the team do to help encourage and support streamers to cover this content?

Here's me just spit balling an idea, but we have the EM calendar, and it helps. Obviously streamers are using it. But there is no community calendar for events that players could submit to. Put that on the homepage and give streamers an avenue to find other content to cover without them having to scour this forum, Stratics' forum, and the myriad of UO discords. That would be a community-minded policy which helps grow UO and addresses the streamer problem.

Because to be frank, bootleg shards are doing these things.

AmberWitch said:

All kidding aside I think it's cool that people are streaming UO. Think about it... streaming a 25 year old game. Yeah, that's cool. My hats are off to you brave souls doing it.

Retro game streaming is huge. Again, I really struggled to grasp why until I sat and explored the Twitch platform for awhile. To be clear, I'm not a twitch salesman as I do think there are a lot of issues with the platform (let's just put aside the risque content in some pockets of Twitch). I don't think I'd let my young niece or nephew watch it Twitch without supervision (the same goes for YouTube or the internet at large). But there are real gems when it comes to huge, passionate, and  active communities around super niche games.

What could possible be more niche than our ~26 year old wizard MMO? And further, what has more in-built nostalgia than our ~26 year old MMO? You only need to look at any of the Ultima facebook groups to see how deep people still care about the game, even if they're not actively playing it. 

Jepeth said:

AmberWitch said:

All kidding aside I think it's cool that people are streaming UO. Think about it... streaming a 25 year old game. Yeah, that's cool. My hats are off to you brave souls doing it.

Retro game streaming is huge. Again, I really struggled to grasp why until I sat and explored the Twitch platform for awhile. To be clear, I'm not a twitch salesman as I do think there are a lot of issues with the platform (let's just put aside the risque content in some pockets of Twitch). I don't think I'd let my young niece or nephew watch it Twitch without supervision (the same goes for YouTube or the internet at large). But there are real gems when it comes to huge, passionate, and  active communities around super niche games.

What could possible be more niche than our ~26 year old wizard MMO? And further, what has more in-built nostalgia than our ~26 year old MMO? You only need to look at any of the Ultima facebook groups to see how deep people still care about the game, even if they're not actively playing it. 

Did you not see the stream where they couldn't even figure out how to buy something from npc vendors free shards do it because they have quality products with developers who communicate 

AmberWitch said:

What the!!!

You mean I could get paid big bucks while getting people to want to happily die? You mean people would WANT to listen to me outside of game even though they're tired of hearing me inside of game?

❤️ ❤️ ❤️

Where do I sign up?

All kidding aside I think it's cool that people are streaming UO. Think about it... streaming a 25 year old game. Yeah, that's cool. My hats are off to you brave souls doing it.

Ya. I do talk out loud to myself while playing. But does anyone want to hear me curse every 6th word. More if I just died.

I have the time and a real mic and camera that I bought for my wife to work from home with. She never used them. I doubt I have the content and mannerisms needed. I would love to curse at the commenters!

Grimbeard said:

Did you not see the stream where they couldn't even figure out how to buy something from npc vendors free shards do it because they have quality products with developers who communicate 

But, what does that have to do with my argument? If you are, like before, saying that because UO is not to your current taste and it should not be promoted, you're entitled to your opinion, but it is not what we're discussing here. You'd do better making your own thread of grievances than trying to to derail this one. This thread deals with 10,000 foot view of Ultima Online's place in modern gaming, not whether or not a specific system is too hard for you. Again, if you don't wish to engage with this, please post your own thread or unsubscribe your accounts. You have lots of choice in the matter!

This is one heck of a well written post. 

Let me follow that up by telling you some of the stuff I learned streaming OSI on Twitch. 

1 - Most UO players have no idea what Twitch is or how to access it. I had a lot of viewers who made accounts there for the first time to come watch me and participate in the giveaways. 

2 - The one thing I wanted more than anything was for the devs to acknowledge me or any of the other OSI streams and get us involved like the free shard devs do with their streamers. I wanted to know they see us trying and want to help us help the game. 

3 - The community ONLY WANTS UO which makes it hard for streamer growth in general outside of UO. So if you build a community and try to introduce them to other games you enjoy as a streamer, they want nothing to do with it. That makes it hard on you as a streamer to push more content. 

4 - Each shard has become set in its ways outside Atlantic. You come in and shake things up, bring attention to activities, or point out things that are not ok and you as a streamer are asking for trouble. The folks who play UO can take things so serious that sometimes you have to remind them this is just a game which a lot of people did not like me doing. 

In the long run its a tough landscape for an OSI based streamer and not one that is best for growth if that is the overall goal of the streamer. I think anyone who is dedicated to only playing UO and has the time to stream OSI should do it though as it is a great adventure and the die hards to do love the OSI stuff. 

EpicLuteGaming said:

Let me follow that up by telling you some of the stuff I learned streaming OSI on Twitch. 

1 - Most UO players have no idea what Twitch is or how to access it. I had a lot of viewers who made accounts there for the first time to come watch me and participate in the giveaways. 

I appreciate hearing these takeaways, and getting your vantage on all this. In particular let me address the first one. I was always so pleased to see this happen. And for awhile it was happening like every time you were on. Whether they were coming in to your space via the category from a bootleg shard or getting connected from another MMO, it was consistently surprising to see how many people were taking notice and coming to Sonoma. Simply streaming OSI and you or your admin answering the "which shard is this?" question did a huge service to our game. I know it was making you go broke doing those gold give aways, but it sure was driving a lot of attention for awhile.

Pawain said:

AmberWitch said:

What the!!!

You mean I could get paid big bucks while getting people to want to happily die? You mean people would WANT to listen to me outside of game even though they're tired of hearing me inside of game?

❤️ ❤️ ❤️

Where do I sign up?

All kidding aside I think it's cool that people are streaming UO. Think about it... streaming a 25 year old game. Yeah, that's cool. My hats are off to you brave souls doing it.

Ya. I do talk out loud to myself while playing. But does anyone want to hear me curse every 6th word. More if I just died.

I have the time and a real mic and camera that I bought for my wife to work from home with. She never used them. I doubt I have the content and mannerisms needed. I would love to curse at the commenters!

I wouldn't mind.  Some of my favorite phrases while streaming the FF4 randomizer: "Oh.  ****" or "that's a massive pile of **** no" (both of those said when I run into a boss where they're particularly powerful.)  Whenever I get the "wanna be famous" spambots, it's "I'd like to offer you the opportunity to GFY" right before I ban them.

Jepeth said:

AmberWitch said:

All kidding aside I think it's cool that people are streaming UO. Think about it... streaming a 25 year old game. Yeah, that's cool. My hats are off to you brave souls doing it.

Retro game streaming is huge. Again, I really struggled to grasp why until I sat and explored the Twitch platform for awhile. To be clear, I'm not a twitch salesman as I do think there are a lot of issues with the platform (let's just put aside the risque content in some pockets of Twitch). I don't think I'd let my young niece or nephew watch it Twitch without supervision (the same goes for YouTube or the internet at large). But there are real gems when it comes to huge, passionate, and  active communities around super niche games.

What could possible be more niche than our ~26 year old wizard MMO? And further, what has more in-built nostalgia than our ~26 year old MMO? You only need to look at any of the Ultima facebook groups to see how deep people still care about the game, even if they're not actively playing it. 

Here's the real problem streaming UO.  UO is not fun to watch.  Let me explain.  UO is all about skill-raising...the repetitious skill use...not fun.  While it is fun sometimes to watch a new player run around casting magic arrows at ettins, it's not something you want to do all the time.  The only real use of a stream for UO is to see someone do something that already has end game templates and end game gear.  Something new players will not easily get behind.  Most training needs to be done between streams because macroing magery for 2 hours might just be a .5 gain in the later levels.  Most other games have something to do at 10/20/30/40...etc. that is a streamable thing, like low level dungeons or farm areas.  Having 70 swords in UO still means you suck, and it took hours to get to that point, but no one wants to watch you kill a billion earth elementals to raise those skills.  There is no intermediate thing to do that is fun...or rather, fun to watch in UO.  "Ok, guys, today I am going to equip this wand and cast Magic Reflect for 4 hrs.  Enjoy!"  Even 100 is not enough in a lot of cases to be 'fun'...having 100 magery, you can still fizzle an EV like 15 times in a row lol...super not fun...even more not fun to watch someone else lol.  Has anyone watched a stream where the streamer was trying to make a crafter and was working on blacksmithing? Imbuing?  LOL no, of course not.  YouTube is fine, you can cut from this is me at 50.5, to this is me at 120.0...now this is what I can do.  There are about 3 usual stream watchers.  The ones that want to learn how to play, so they want to watch someone make a character and walk them through it.  The ones that have finished templates and want to watch someone play that template to show what it can do.  And the ones that are looking to get into a community to talk about the games they love.  As a UO streamer, you have to focus on that last one, due to the others being such a niche thing and is better when there is an editorial process.  I think Patrick had it right when it was just a 'UO and chill' type of stream...and shameless giving away of loot didn't hurt either.

Sarkon said:

Here's the real problem streaming UO.  UO is not fun to watch.  ... Has anyone watched a stream where the streamer was trying to make a crafter and was working on blacksmithing? Imbuing?  LOL no, of course not.  

Yes? Actually? I hear what you're saying in that there are some parts of the game that are visually uninteresting and grindy. (Grind? In UO?!) but what you're describing is more a performance problem than a game problem. And, again, my goal here isn't to malign streamer's efforts. But the right performer and an active community can make anything interesting. The thousands of folks watching chess on Twitch every night can attest to that. 

UO content that you think wouldn't be very interesting absolutely can be. I watched Waffles buy up a ton of resources on Atlantic the other day to try and manipulate the market via vendor search. Just simple vendor searching, teleporting, buying, repricing. Content you wouldn't think was fun but like I mentioned in my initial post, he's got stated goals for his streams around making money and that drives a lot of the "plot" so to speak. 

Absolutely.  A good streamer can make anything interesting.  I’ve watched Waffles and he’s a very likable fellow.  His UO content is very good, but I wouldn’t watch hardly anyone else play the market in UO.  Commentary and community makes things like that watchable.  That’s the problem and point I was making.  UO needs more streamable content.  You can’t just rely on a personality to get it done.  A point comes when actual content needs to be available for the everyday player.  Not just the brand new or endgame.  That bridge is what will attract players.  A dungeon revamp maybe where your skills are capped, but rewards are nice…maybe could shake up some templates to farm in certain areas.  Personally, in a game like UO, I don’t want to see Sampires or common templates.  I like seeing the weird and creative stuff (even though Sampires were weird and creative at some point.). The road less travelled has always appealed to me, but we don’t get to see that much anymore.

Here is the major problem with watching a video is that everything happens so fast that you go that was fun but what the hell happened.  most of the stuff that I took a peek at the screen was so cluttered with spells and everything else I just left.  I play play styles that take very few key strokes because in the heat of battle I tend to hit the wrong key, I use the KISS formula when playing UO.

Sarkon said:

Absolutely.  A good streamer can make anything interesting.  I’ve watched Waffles and he’s a very likable fellow.  His UO content is very good, but I wouldn’t watch hardly anyone else play the market in UO.  Commentary and community makes things like that watchable.  That’s the problem and point I was making.  UO needs more streamable content.  You can’t just rely on a personality to get it done.  A point comes when actual content needs to be available for the everyday player.  Not just the brand new or endgame.  That bridge is what will attract players.  A dungeon revamp maybe where your skills are capped, but rewards are nice…maybe could shake up some templates to farm in certain areas.  Personally, in a game like UO, I don’t want to see Sampires or common templates.  I like seeing the weird and creative stuff (even though Sampires were weird and creative at some point.). The road less travelled has always appealed to me, but we don’t get to see that much anymore.

I think these are good ideas if later any folks read this thread and are considering getting into streaming the game. I, also, really like seeing different templates in play. Or experiments and theorycrafting. This stuff is happening everyday in UO, no one is putting it out there. 

The next big UO Streamer: a min/maxing theorycrafter with a good radio voice. 

AmberWitch said:

Might be fun for us all to get in one discord channel one night and just listen to ourselves and each other. Bet it would be hilarious.

It's happening already! I've been fortunate enough to do a couple hunts with really, really large groups coordinating via discord voice chat, running through all kinds of content. It's hinged, of course, on the few folks who coordinate everything and go out of their way to invite new/off sharders like myself to participate. These people, like a good streamer, end up being the lynchpin of their communities.

I think I could also write an essay called Ultima Online has a Discord Problem one day with similar themes as this thread, but we'll save that for later.

One thing I hope the devs and anyone reading this takes away from this post is that if you want people to represent your game you have to support them and the journey they are on. No one wants to do this for free or for the love of a game and do it with a value that will be entertaining and help with growth. It is just too demanding. 

EpicLuteGaming said:

One thing I hope the devs and anyone reading this takes away from this post is that if you want people to represent your game you have to support them and the journey they are on. No one wants to do this for free or for the love of a game and do it with a value that will be entertaining and help with growth. It is just too demanding. 

I'd comment but jebby would get mad 

Grimbeard said:

EpicLuteGaming said:

One thing I hope the devs and anyone reading this takes away from this post is that if you want people to represent your game you have to support them and the journey they are on. No one wants to do this for free or for the love of a game and do it with a value that will be entertaining and help with growth. It is just too demanding. 

I'd comment but jebby would get mad 

let it rip sir

EpicLuteGaming said:

Grimbeard said:

EpicLuteGaming said:

One thing I hope the devs and anyone reading this takes away from this post is that if you want people to represent your game you have to support them and the journey they are on. No one wants to do this for free or for the love of a game and do it with a value that will be entertaining and help with growth. It is just too demanding. 

I'd comment but jebby would get mad 

let it rip sir

Good word choice for the kinds of thoughts coming from him.

AmberWitch said:

KISS?

Edit: NM, got it. lol

“UO players are physically unattractive (the demographic), that may be why they don’t attract high viewers like games with attractive players”

AmberWitch said:

KISS?

Edit: NM, got it. lol

KISS stands for Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Yoshi said:

“UO players are physically unattractive (the demographic), that may be why they don’t attract high viewers like games with attractive players”

  That is NOT a LIE!!!

Tyrath said:

Yoshi said:

“UO players are physically unattractive (the demographic), that may be why they don’t attract high viewers like games with attractive players”

  That is NOT a LIE!!!

No, no. Everyone knows UO players are only ugly on the inside.

I'm sure after 25 years of being hunched over our computer screens our skin is clear and wrinkles unnoticeable. 

I’d like to try streaming but it’s a world I know barely anything about.  Maybe I should try though. Hmmm

Jepeth said:

Tyrath said:

Yoshi said:

“UO players are physically unattractive (the demographic), that may be why they don’t attract high viewers like games with attractive players”

  That is NOT a LIE!!!

No, no. Everyone knows UO players are only ugly on the inside.

I'm sure after 25 years of being hunched over our computer screens our skin is clear and wrinkles unnoticeable. 

So off topic is ok when you decide?  Did i miss your post where you said you were going to start streaming to fill the gap ?

Grimbeard said:

So off topic is ok when you decide?  Did i miss your post where you said you were going to start streaming to fill the gap ?

Fella, you want to pick a fight with me, I suggest you take it to DMs. Off topic in a light-hearted manner is one thing, your non-stop vitriol towards the game and how it chokes out every other thread here is another. As I've said three times now, if you want to do that go start your own threads, or unsubscribe your accounts. Either way: take a hint. 

dvvid said:

I’d like to try streaming but it’s a world I know barely anything about.  Maybe I should try though. Hmmm

I've seen the thoughtful help you give to folks on the various discords, I think you'd be great at it!

Jepeth said:

dvvid said:

I’d like to try streaming but it’s a world I know barely anything about.  Maybe I should try though. Hmmm

I've seen the thoughtful help you give to folks on the various discords, I think you'd be great at it!

Thanks for saying so! 

Larisa said:

I honestly didn't read any of this post...but I will! I just have one question...

I used to stream on Twitch AGES ago....I used OBS....I just logged into my Twitch account for the first time in forever and noticed that they now have their own streaming software.

Does anyone know if the Twitch streaming service is better, the same or worse then OBS?

This thread had me contemplating streaming again so I am just wondering if it's worth getting the Twitch service or just sticking with OBS.

Thanks in advance!

Idk anything about twitch's software but fairly certain OBS is the de facto standard still.

Would rather play than watch UO played by someone else.  UO is confusing to watch when it’s being played by someone else.  Most streamers I have watched don’t do a good job of explaining what is going on and what they are doing.  It can be done in an interesting way but only a few players can do that.

I think maybe a good way to go about steaming would be explaining what you doing, talking about what you think or feel about different aspects of the game along the way, and communicate with whoever is watching / answer questions if you can. Someone might find that interesting and/or helpful. 

Larisa said:

I honestly didn't read any of this post...but I will! I just have one question...

I used to stream on Twitch AGES ago....I used OBS....I just logged into my Twitch account for the first time in forever and noticed that they now have their own streaming software.

Does anyone know if the Twitch streaming service is better, the same or worse then OBS?

This thread had me contemplating streaming again so I am just wondering if it's worth getting the Twitch service or just sticking with OBS.

Thanks in advance!

OBS is the free way to do it, Twitch has their own and again, it’s free. I use Streamlabs OBS. It costs roughly $23 each month but offers a LOT more to streamers. In addition, if you decide to do more than just do a basic stream you may want to look at additional things to add to your streaming. Roughly, you’ll spend about $50 a month minimum, but in my opinion, well worth the investment. If you decide to use it also for YouTube, add in another $25 for video editing software per month, provided you don’t use any of the add on packs. 

lets be real, its because most UO players are old.  and ugly.  myself included. not popular streamer quality.  and why stream if your not trying to gain an audience?   40 year olds streaming for like 3 viewers of a low population game isnt something many people would want to do.

Smoot said:

lets be real, its because most UO players are old.  and ugly.  myself included. not popular streamer quality.  and why stream if your not trying to gain an audience?   40 year olds streaming for like 3 viewers of a low population game isnt something many people would want to do.

So, as mentioned.. The point of this thread was not to tell players to be Twitch streamers. That's up to them and whether or not they are the right type for it. My post and our discussion was was attempting to advocate that our dev team include streamers in their overall strategy for the game. Whether or not someone is "pretty" enough is... immaterial ?

Arnold7 said:

Would rather play than watch UO played by someone else.  UO is confusing to watch when it’s being played by someone else.  Most streamers I have watched don’t do a good job of explaining what is going on and what they are doing.  It can be done in an interesting way but only a few players can do that.

AMEN

Jepeth said:

Smoot said:

lets be real, its because most UO players are old.  and ugly.  myself included. not popular streamer quality.  and why stream if your not trying to gain an audience?   40 year olds streaming for like 3 viewers of a low population game isnt something many people would want to do.

So, as mentioned.. The point of this thread was not to tell players to be Twitch streamers. That's up to them and whether or not they are the right type for it. My post and our discussion was was attempting to advocate that our dev team include streamers in their overall strategy for the game. Whether or not someone is "pretty" enough is... immaterial ?

We have a hand full of people trying to maintain/bug fix/new content and you want them to take the time to stream stuff.  What is it exactly do you want/need them to tell/show you.

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Smoot said:

lets be real, its because most UO players are old.  and ugly.  myself included. not popular streamer quality.  and why stream if your not trying to gain an audience?   40 year olds streaming for like 3 viewers of a low population game isnt something many people would want to do.

So, as mentioned.. The point of this thread was not to tell players to be Twitch streamers. That's up to them and whether or not they are the right type for it. My post and our discussion was was attempting to advocate that our dev team include streamers in their overall strategy for the game. Whether or not someone is "pretty" enough is... immaterial ?

We have a hand full of people trying to maintain/bug fix/new content and you want them to take the time to stream stuff.  What is it exactly do you want/need them to tell/show you.

?

Where in these posts did I say I wanted the dev team to stream stuff?

I pretty clearly laid out some easy suggestions the team could do to help out streamers who want to take the game on, that’s it. Community outreach.

Frodo, have you sat down and watched a streamer? Patrick or Kittie? And if not a UO streamer, then any of the other hundreds of thousands on the platform? Cause what I’m seeing here is that you don’t quite grasp the point. This isn’t about tutorials! 

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Grimbeard said:

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Trolling is unbecoming of someone your age. But if this is an earnest request, try rereading the last three paragraphs of my initial post. 

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Trolling is unbecoming of someone your age. But if this is an earnest request, try rereading the last three paragraphs of my initial post. 

I read your post it was informative on your opinions however every post since then has been critical and or telling people this is my thread stop hardly constructive towards convincing anyone anything 

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Other than criticism has the OP offered any helpful suggestions? 

Trolling is unbecoming of someone your age. But if this is an earnest request, try rereading the last three paragraphs of my initial post. 

I read your post it was informative on your opinions however every post since then has been critical and or telling people this is my thread stop hardly constructive towards convincing anyone anything 

Nah, I’ve had a fine time talking to Dvvid, Amber, Patrick, Keven and many others who were insightful about this topic, and also appreciated some thoughtful responses from folks like Gay and Arnold who see this issue differently. Hopefully our team is reading this thread and they'll see a few different takes on this issue as well as a fair amount of their players strong feelings on the topic.

The only things you've offered in this thread is complain about the dev team or complain about me. If you want to complain about them, there are plenty of places to do it. If you want to complain about me, I invite you to send me a DM. Like I said in my first reply to you, if you want to talk about the state of UO streaming (as was this thread's purpose) or even just talk about what you see from other game companies and how they interact with their streaming player fanbase, please do so! You do watch video game streamers, right?

Once again, if this thread is not to your taste (and it clearly isn't) you have the power to not read the thread any further, start your own, or unsubscribe your accounts.

Again your approval of my opinion is not necessary maybe next time email @Mesanna directly so as not to be bothered? 

Pulling this thread back on topic, @EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

Jepeth said:

Pulling this thread back on topic, @ EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

The problem is that it looked like a free shard?

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Pulling this thread back on topic, @ EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

The problem is that it looked like a free shard?

What are you talking about? He wasn't on a free shard. It literally says in the title of his video OSI/Retail.

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Pulling this thread back on topic, @ EpicLuteGaming has decided to try streaming UO again on self-imposed "hardmode" including a perma-death rule. Here's the recording of the most recent live stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1780420444 .

It's pretty interesting stuff! And, fun to watch his community interact with him while he's dodging monsters.

The problem is that it looked like a free shard?

What are you talking about? He wasn't on a free shard. It literally says in the title of his video OSI/Retail.

That's right might have been another these are the guys who couldn't figure out how money worked? 

I understand what you want i really do i too wish we had a presence in gaming and were relevant which might attract new players more revenue and better UO  but the reality is we had the 25th anniversary a huge thing multiple gaming blogs and magazines covering and we heard not a peep ? Why? 

That is not Patrick. Can you please share this stream of the person who couldn't figure out money? 

Jepeth said:

That is not Patrick. Can you please share this stream of the person who couldn't figure out money?



 I think I saw it posted on Stratics last month 

Around 1:20

Grimbeard said:

Around 1:20

lol...

You watched the video, right? He tried to buy it, read the fly over text saying "begging thy pardon, but thy bank account lacks these funds," and then read his twitch community chat on the side of the screen telling him what to do! He immediately ran to the bank to deposit the gold, came back, and bought his dye tub. He even gave us a little timelapse of it. This is literally the point I was making earlier, community involvement with a good streamer can make our game fun and engaging, and our dev team can do more for them.

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Around 1:20

lol...

You watched the video, right? He tried to buy it, read the fly over text saying "begging thy pardon, but thy bank account lacks these funds," and then read his twitch community chat on the side of the screen telling him what to do! He immediately ran to the bank to deposit the gold, came back, and bought his dye tub. He even gave us a little timelapse of it. This is literally the point I was making earlier, community involvement with a good streamer can make our game fun and engaging, and our dev team can do more for them.

You continue to miss the point and completely ignored my post about why this is a waste of time 

Grimbeard said:

You continue to miss the point and completely ignored my post about why this is a waste of time 

Which point am I missing? That you misconstrued the part of the video you were trying to use as some sort of evidence that UO is not a fit for modern gamers/streamers?

No, there it is: "A waste of time."

It's my fault. I tried to, in good faith, respond to your incorrect statement about Patrick with an earnest request to understand where this thing about a streamer who couldn't figure out the game came from. But here we are, again, you're trying to bash the devs.

Sorry, I haven't given up on this game. Advocating for it is my time to waste. Agree to disagree and move on, Grimbeard. 

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Smoot said:

lets be real, its because most UO players are old.  and ugly.  myself included. not popular streamer quality.  and why stream if your not trying to gain an audience?   40 year olds streaming for like 3 viewers of a low population game isnt something many people would want to do.

So, as mentioned.. The point of this thread was not to tell players to be Twitch streamers. That's up to them and whether or not they are the right type for it. My post and our discussion was was attempting to advocate that our dev team include streamers in their overall strategy for the game. Whether or not someone is "pretty" enough is... immaterial ?

We have a hand full of people trying to maintain/bug fix/new content and you want them to take the time to stream stuff.  What is it exactly do you want/need them to tell/show you.

?

Where in these posts did I say I wanted the dev team to stream stuff?

I pretty clearly laid out some easy suggestions the team could do to help out streamers who want to take the game on, that’s it. Community outreach.

Frodo, have you sat down and watched a streamer? Patrick or Kittie? And if not a UO streamer, then any of the other hundreds of thousands on the platform? Cause what I’m seeing here is that you don’t quite grasp the point. This isn’t about tutorials! 

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Fella, I really just am trying to have a conversation here about ways our game can move into modern gaming during its third decade of life. One of those ways is our team can include player streaming as one of their strategies to operate the game, that’s it.

I’m not:

• Telling people to make videos themselves, that’s their business. I’m more interested in what our team can do.
• Telling people to make tutorials. You keep coming back to this, which makes me think you’re not grasping the difference between a YouTube video and a community streamer. I’m sorry if that’s me reading too much into what you say, but you are the one who keeps bringing up tutorials.

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Fella, I really just am trying to have a conversation here about ways our game can move into modern gaming during its third decade of life. One of those ways is our team can include player streaming as one of their strategies to operate the game, that’s it.

I’m not:

• Telling people to make videos themselves, that’s their business. I’m more interested in what our team can do.
• Telling people to make tutorials. You keep coming back to this, which makes me think you’re not grasping the difference between a YouTube video and a community streamer. I’m sorry if that’s me reading too much into what you say, but you are the one who keeps bringing up tutorials.

And, finally, between the two of us, whose language here suggests someone getting upset? 

Since you must as missed it let me quote my post 

AmberWitch said:

These forums could be a place for the Dev's and us players to see what kind of support (or lack thereof) is happening in this brave new world.  For a lot of us I think it would be a place of learning, as well as getting a sense of what is happening in that world, our world.

…

So personal experience and opinions aside, I think that UO needs to get with it and enter this brave new world. I think it could be far more enlightening in regards to the social and mechanical aspects that we no longer see because we've become so use to them during 25 years of immersion. 

I really like the idea of a specific forum! Any light the team could shed on folks trying to do this would be welcome.

On your last point, I think that’s a fun way to frame this issue. UO was one of the pioneering ways people socialized and made community on the early internet. Way different in tone and impact than Usenet or IRC or even The Well communities. Community socializing is in UO’s DNA, and whatever can be done to further that should be encouraged. 

Grimbeard said:

Since you must as missed it let me quote my post 

"I understand what you want i really do i too wish we had a presence in gaming and were relevant which might attract new players more revenue and better UO  but the reality is we had the 25th anniversary a huge thing multiple gaming blogs and magazines covering and we heard not a peep ? Why? "

Now explain how you feel the developers are going to get involved with any streams 

No, I didn't miss this, I just don't think it's my place to speak for our dev team, or why mainstream gaming news coverage didn't take notice of the party.

But, some news site did write stories about the anniversary. MMORPG.com did a nice piece talking about the rewards and quoted Raph Koster.

So did MassivelyOverpowered a few months earlier.

And GamePressure.

And GameBanshee.

Even PCGamer did an article in February of last year when the content began to hit TC.

That's all just from the first page of Google results. Now, why did none of these sites cover the actual party? You'd truly have to ask them, not me. If you're suggesting that it's for some reason our team's fault they didn't reach out, I feel like that's a Mesanna question. 

But, to your last question about why I feel like the developers are going to get involved with any streams: as I've said, I think there are real benefits for trying to help players build communities within the game. It's the same as them listing fansites on the homepage. They have a strong business incentive to keep the product going, and taking a more modern approach could be to their benefit. Simple as that. More players, more communities, more money. 

So the same team that ignored massive world wide free advertising is suddenly gonna get involved with streaming 

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Jepeth said:

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Well you asked and we're three pages in with no comments from them i guess that's your answer 

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Well you asked and we're three pages in with no comments from them i guess that's your answer 

Yeah, I mean, maybe? I understand the cynicism in this place, even if I don't, personally, subscribe to it. If one of our friends on the team wanted to pop in and say hello now would be a great time, but that's the thing about our game. Every comment they make is entirely scrutinized by the playerbase. I do it to them, too. I understand their reticence, but, like the cynicism, I don't prefer it, either. 

Jepeth said:

Grimbeard said:

Jepeth said:

Think you'd have to ask them, not me! 

Well you asked and we're three pages in with no comments from them i guess that's your answer 

Yeah, I mean, maybe? I understand the cynicism in this place, even if I don't, personally, subscribe to it. If one of our friends on the team wanted to pop in and say hello now would be a great time, but that's the thing about our game. Every comment they make is entirely scrutinized by the playerbase. I do it to them, too. I understand their reticence, but, like the cynicism, I don't prefer it, either. 

Try emailing Mesanna you'll be surprised 

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Jepeth said:

Lord_Frodo said:

LMAO  So you have not read everything that people have said or you would know the answer to the question you asked.  And again you are asking a very thin DEVs to take time out of their busy day and deal with streams and use them.  You want streams than fine you make them and advertise them, you have forums, FB, twitter/twatter/twotter or what ever all the other BS there is out there.  Every one I watched that was suppose to be educational was nothing more than a player to show off how LEET and badass they were, nothing more than a swelled head ego.

I have read everything that had been said, but I disagree that nothing can be done. I, personally, find cynicism to be unproductive. 

I’m sorry that you didn’t get into the streamers you watched. Like I said in my initial post, it was a hurdle for me in the beginning, too.

WOW  Did I say nothing could be done now, you sure do like to read shit into things.  I said the way they are being done NOW are useless.  You want to make a video about how to do things than fine, slow down and educate people and stop trying to prove how LEET and BADASS you are and by all means stop getting so butt hurt when someone does not bow down and say oh what a great idea you have, it is the best thing I have ever heard of.

Fella, I really just am trying to have a conversation here about ways our game can move into modern gaming during its third decade of life. One of those ways is our team can include player streaming as one of their strategies to operate the game, that’s it.

I’m not:

• Telling people to make videos themselves, that’s their business. I’m more interested in what our team can do.
• Telling people to make tutorials. You keep coming back to this, which makes me think you’re not grasping the difference between a YouTube video and a community streamer. I’m sorry if that’s me reading too much into what you say, but you are the one who keeps bringing up tutorials.

And, finally, between the two of us, whose language here suggests someone getting upset? 

Now I understand, you do not want to make tutorials showing how to do things to help out the community you want to make videos showing how LEET and BADASS you are to further inflate your overinflated ego.  Thank you very much for clearing that up.  Good luck getting the DEVs to help you out.

Streaming in theory would be fantastic for the game some famous streamers have millions of followers this would equal more people seeing and hopefully playing UO  

Pawain said:

How much does a 1k streamer make?

Streamers in the top 100 on the platform make a minimum of $32,850 USD per month on Twitch via subs, bit donations, and ads alone. Streamers in the top 1000 on the platform made a minimum of $7,063 USD per month. Streamers in the top 10,000 on the platform make a minimum of $904 USD per month.Feb 14, 2023

A world out there that you cave dwellers know nothing about.

You can't stream a broken old game...

Amouranth could.

Pawain said:

Amouranth could.

You know when I was talking about some of the problematic aspects of Twitch, people like this streamer is kind of who I had in mind.

But..

You have to admire the hustle. It's not for me but it's clearly a draw for others.