Macro helpful for grabbing then eating scroll or primer but you still gotta sneak up and stand next to whoever is killing champ..Acid_Rain said:Thieves r easy templates w all the scripts available that management ignores. Scan target for id #s, auto target, auto smoke bomb... its almost a fully automated template. All u really have 2 do is log urself in.
Grimbeard said:Macro helpful for grabbing then eating scroll or primer but you still gotta sneak up and stand next to whoever is killing champ..Acid_Rain said:Thieves r easy templates w all the scripts available that management ignores. Scan target for id #s, auto target, auto smoke bomb... its almost a fully automated template. All u really have 2 do is log urself in.
Acid_Rain said:Thieves r easy templates w all the scripts available that management ignores. Scan target for id #s, auto target, auto smoke bomb... its almost a fully automated template. All u really have 2 do is log urself in.
By nature of the profession (thief) they are lurking in the shadows which doesn't lend itself to actually fighting. It kind of defeats the purpose of stealing from something if you can just as well kill it and take that item (and everything else they have).JohnKnighthawke said:They really need to come up with Tram/PvM type stuff to do with thieves. Even if PvP thieving didn't exist at all (and consider that the Fel lifestyle has been a distinct minority of players since another option existed!!!), we're right now missing out on a long-standing fantasy archetype. Especially when you consider that fighter-thief (the classic D&D thief) is not a viable template in PvM.(Or am I missing something there? If so let me know, maybe I'll have time to try it out.)I've always wondered if it was viable to collapse skills (lockpicking, stealing, cartography, snooping, etc., maybe also including ranger skills like tracking) into one 'rogue' skill, and give it some combat bonuses too, and make it not work with other combat skills.Of course with our luck they'd make it over-powered.
Do you not consider these two activities to fit your description?JohnKnighthawke said:They really need to come up with Tram/PvM type stuff to do with thieves. Even if PvP thieving didn't exist at all (and consider that the Fel lifestyle has been a distinct minority of players since another option existed!!!), we're right now missing out on a long-standing fantasy archetype. Especially when you consider that fighter-thief (the classic D&D thief) is not a viable template in PvM.(Or am I missing something there? If so let me know, maybe I'll have time to try it out.)I've always wondered if it was viable to collapse skills (lockpicking, stealing, cartography, snooping, etc., maybe also including ranger skills like tracking) into one 'rogue' skill, and give it some combat bonuses too, and make it not work with other combat skills.Of course with our luck they'd make it over-powered.
As in regards to stealing in Exodus Dungeon, I am afraid that, both from Zealots and from the Hidden Dungeon Chests, and this even with decent Luck (1,500+ worn Luck, which is not easy to fit in a Rogue template with Hiding, Stealthing, Stealing, Snooping, Detect Hidden, Lockpicking, and Magery and thus requiring quite a few skill points on items...), the rate of getting Exodus keys is abysmally much lower as compared to just killing spawn in the Exodus Dungeon.Petra_Fyde said:Do you not consider these two activities to fit your description?JohnKnighthawke said:They really need to come up with Tram/PvM type stuff to do with thieves. Even if PvP thieving didn't exist at all (and consider that the Fel lifestyle has been a distinct minority of players since another option existed!!!), we're right now missing out on a long-standing fantasy archetype. Especially when you consider that fighter-thief (the classic D&D thief) is not a viable template in PvM.(Or am I missing something there? If so let me know, maybe I'll have time to try it out.)I've always wondered if it was viable to collapse skills (lockpicking, stealing, cartography, snooping, etc., maybe also including ranger skills like tracking) into one 'rogue' skill, and give it some combat bonuses too, and make it not work with other combat skills.Of course with our luck they'd make it over-powered.
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-from-monsters/
My vid of that
https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/pvm-player-versus-monster/stealing-in-exodus-dungeon/
My vid of that
Thanks for sharing your template. A lot of stuff in UO is built around combat these days, so a change of pace can be fun.Petra_Fyde said:My thief's template, all real skill:
Luck is 1880 without the statue bonus. I guess her suit could have been expensive, if I'd bought the things she wears instead of getting them by hunting over the years.
Also, I don't always do Exodus for the keys, it's fun to do anyway, and there are other 'prizes' to be won from doing it.
I can take her magery up a bit with a tome of lost knowledge if I want to cast EVs or earth eles etc. I can take her stealth up a bit with a dress from Blackthorn's, but I don't really need to.
Sure I could use a fighting character, but it's nice to have a change of pace sometimes. As I've said several times before, I play for FUN. profit is waaay down on my priority list.
Personally, I think it is an enjoyable change from the "routine" of getting items in UO from fighting, that the Developers made it possible to get things, exodus keys included, in the Exodus Dungeon, by using a non-fighting "Rogue" character.... either stealing from Zealots, or finding Hidden Chests in the Exodus dungeons.Petra_Fyde said:My thief's template, all real skill:
Luck is 1880 without the statue bonus. I guess her suit could have been expensive, if I'd bought the things she wears instead of getting them by hunting over the years.
Also, I don't always do Exodus for the keys, it's fun to do anyway, and there are other 'prizes' to be won from doing it.
I can take her magery up a bit with a tome of lost knowledge if I want to cast EVs or earth eles etc. I can take her stealth up a bit with a dress from Blackthorn's, but I don't really need to.
Sure I could use a fighting character, but it's nice to have a change of pace sometimes. As I've said several times before, I play for FUN. profit is waaay down on my priority list.
Well popps has managed to STEAL this thread so good jobpopps said:Personally, I think it is an enjoyable change from the "routine" of getting items in UO from fighting, that the Developers made it possible to get things, exodus keys included, in the Exodus Dungeon, by using a non-fighting "Rogue" character.... either stealing from Zealots, or finding Hidden Chests in the Exodus dungeons.Petra_Fyde said:My thief's template, all real skill:
Luck is 1880 without the statue bonus. I guess her suit could have been expensive, if I'd bought the things she wears instead of getting them by hunting over the years.
Also, I don't always do Exodus for the keys, it's fun to do anyway, and there are other 'prizes' to be won from doing it.
I can take her magery up a bit with a tome of lost knowledge if I want to cast EVs or earth eles etc. I can take her stealth up a bit with a dress from Blackthorn's, but I don't really need to.
Sure I could use a fighting character, but it's nice to have a change of pace sometimes. As I've said several times before, I play for FUN. profit is waaay down on my priority list.
Unfortunately, a very good Design idea to offer to players a change from the fighting "routine", at least to my opinion, was ruined by the abysmally low rate at which, even with "decent" worn Luck, the chances to get Exodus keys either from stealing from Zealots or to find them in Hidden Chests, were then set to be at, by the Developers.
Just try it out, either go to the Exodus Dungeon with a fighting character "fit" for efficient combat down there, or with a rogue to steal from Zealots or to find them in Hidden Chests, for a couple of hours of gameplay.... and then see how many Exodus keys you gathered either way....
The fighting way is a LOT more efficient and yields a lot more keys in the same time frame.... it just makes using a Rogue not worth it in that Dungeon, IMHO.
Which is sad, to my viewing, because it may deter players from wanting to use a Rogue, rather then a fighting character, in order to get Exodus keys.
The numbers, to my viewing, should not differ too much, whether a player uses combat characters or a Rogue, non-fighting character, to get Exodus keys..... this way, players wanting to have a change to the fighting "routine", would not find themselves at such a disadvantage from using a combat character.
Not to mention, of course, the multi-scripters who go down there with 3+ dexers synchronized with the same macro, killing everything that moves in no time who can collect tons of keys in hardly any time.... forget about even dreaming of being so efficient with a rogue character ..... why would then a player want to use a rogue character that is so much at a disadvantage ?
How so, when all the thread is about, to my understanding, is discussing the fact that Rogues characters are not much playable in UO (the OP talks about a "retired" thief....) which it is, precisely what I talk about in my post ?Grimbeard said:Well popps has managed to STEAL this thread so good jobpopps said:Personally, I think it is an enjoyable change from the "routine" of getting items in UO from fighting, that the Developers made it possible to get things, exodus keys included, in the Exodus Dungeon, by using a non-fighting "Rogue" character.... either stealing from Zealots, or finding Hidden Chests in the Exodus dungeons.Petra_Fyde said:My thief's template, all real skill:
Luck is 1880 without the statue bonus. I guess her suit could have been expensive, if I'd bought the things she wears instead of getting them by hunting over the years.
Also, I don't always do Exodus for the keys, it's fun to do anyway, and there are other 'prizes' to be won from doing it.
I can take her magery up a bit with a tome of lost knowledge if I want to cast EVs or earth eles etc. I can take her stealth up a bit with a dress from Blackthorn's, but I don't really need to.
Sure I could use a fighting character, but it's nice to have a change of pace sometimes. As I've said several times before, I play for FUN. profit is waaay down on my priority list.
Unfortunately, a very good Design idea to offer to players a change from the fighting "routine", at least to my opinion, was ruined by the abysmally low rate at which, even with "decent" worn Luck, the chances to get Exodus keys either from stealing from Zealots or to find them in Hidden Chests, were then set to be at, by the Developers.
Just try it out, either go to the Exodus Dungeon with a fighting character "fit" for efficient combat down there, or with a rogue to steal from Zealots or to find them in Hidden Chests, for a couple of hours of gameplay.... and then see how many Exodus keys you gathered either way....
The fighting way is a LOT more efficient and yields a lot more keys in the same time frame.... it just makes using a Rogue not worth it in that Dungeon, IMHO.
Which is sad, to my viewing, because it may deter players from wanting to use a Rogue, rather then a fighting character, in order to get Exodus keys.
The numbers, to my viewing, should not differ too much, whether a player uses combat characters or a Rogue, non-fighting character, to get Exodus keys..... this way, players wanting to have a change to the fighting "routine", would not find themselves at such a disadvantage from using a combat character.
Not to mention, of course, the multi-scripters who go down there with 3+ dexers synchronized with the same macro, killing everything that moves in no time who can collect tons of keys in hardly any time.... forget about even dreaming of being so efficient with a rogue character ..... why would then a player want to use a rogue character that is so much at a disadvantage ?
Because:popps said:. why would then a player want to use a rogue character that is so much at a disadvantage ?
I agree with you Petra. Essentially playing a thief is like playing any other non-fighting template and the same question (and answer) could be given.Petra_Fyde said:Because:popps said:. why would then a player want to use a rogue character that is so much at a disadvantage ?
1. It's FUN
2. Because a thief gets other things besides Exodus key: Smoke bombs, Parasitic potions, Invis potions, small gems for imbuing, Imbuing essences and ML ingredients, not to mention a considerable quantity of gold.
For the parasitic potions alone it can be a worthwhile trip, those potions take 5 parasitic plants each, and they're not easy to get, which makes filling a 'toxic' BoD difficult, unless you have access to the King's Collection sponge.
I played a thief 20 years ago (still have him today) that was very fun to play for PvP. It was back before insurance and LRC when you would just need to steal someone garlic or bandaids to prevent them from being able to heal. They would immediately attack, not knowing that I had fencing and I'd equip a spear and start poking them, usually making short work of them since they had no way to heal. Good timesTheo said:I’ve never played a thief but it seems interesting and I always think of this when the topic comes up. Midas was brilliant!
While it might be fun, still, some players might be time limited and, thus, when they realize how much faster it is to just go down the Exodus Dungeon and kill stuff to get the keys, they might leave their Rogue character to collect dust, nonetheless....Petra_Fyde said:Because:popps said:. why would then a player want to use a rogue character that is so much at a disadvantage ?
1. It's FUN
2. Because a thief gets other things besides Exodus key: Smoke bombs, Parasitic potions, Invis potions, small gems for imbuing, Imbuing essences and ML ingredients, not to mention a considerable quantity of gold.
For the parasitic potions alone it can be a worthwhile trip, those potions take 5 parasitic plants each, and they're not easy to get, which makes filling a 'toxic' BoD difficult, unless you have access to the King's Collection sponge.
keven2002 said:I agree with you Petra. Essentially playing a thief is like playing any other non-fighting template and the same question (and answer) could be given.Petra_Fyde said:Because:popps said:. why would then a player want to use a rogue character that is so much at a disadvantage ?
1. It's FUN
2. Because a thief gets other things besides Exodus key: Smoke bombs, Parasitic potions, Invis potions, small gems for imbuing, Imbuing essences and ML ingredients, not to mention a considerable quantity of gold.
For the parasitic potions alone it can be a worthwhile trip, those potions take 5 parasitic plants each, and they're not easy to get, which makes filling a 'toxic' BoD difficult, unless you have access to the King's Collection sponge.
It the same thing for people playing bards/fishers/crafters etc. Those professions are all slower at raising money (or getting exodus keys) compared to a warrior but people do it because it's something different to do. If every profession got you to the same place then you would basically just have the first Diablo where it didn't matter what you chose Beserker/Mage/etc you still killed all the same stuff and got to the same point...just slightly different graphics.
@ popps - You keep harping on gathering Exodus keys but what is your end game of gathering those keys? You haven;'t said anything about a thief killing the clockwork exodus; likely because they can't. Keys only last a week too so I'm not sure why you keep going back to exodus keys. This goes back to my point that thieves by nature are not warriors or dominant fighters. I agree a thief revamp of things to do is needed but I wouldn't consider exodus keys specifically an issue.
You keep harping on gathering Exodus keys but what is your end game of gathering those keys? You haven;'t said anything about a thief killing the clockwork exodus; likely because they can't.
Dictionary Definition
play:
engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.
Clearly the title of my post measure of a good thief was clear popps should go start another what's wrong with thieves if that's what he wants to discusspopps said:keven2002 said:I agree with you Petra. Essentially playing a thief is like playing any other non-fighting template and the same question (and answer) could be given.Petra_Fyde said:Because:popps said:. why would then a player want to use a rogue character that is so much at a disadvantage ?
1. It's FUN
2. Because a thief gets other things besides Exodus key: Smoke bombs, Parasitic potions, Invis potions, small gems for imbuing, Imbuing essences and ML ingredients, not to mention a considerable quantity of gold.
For the parasitic potions alone it can be a worthwhile trip, those potions take 5 parasitic plants each, and they're not easy to get, which makes filling a 'toxic' BoD difficult, unless you have access to the King's Collection sponge.
It the same thing for people playing bards/fishers/crafters etc. Those professions are all slower at raising money (or getting exodus keys) compared to a warrior but people do it because it's something different to do. If every profession got you to the same place then you would basically just have the first Diablo where it didn't matter what you chose Beserker/Mage/etc you still killed all the same stuff and got to the same point...just slightly different graphics.
@ popps - You keep harping on gathering Exodus keys but what is your end game of gathering those keys? You haven;'t said anything about a thief killing the clockwork exodus; likely because they can't. Keys only last a week too so I'm not sure why you keep going back to exodus keys. This goes back to my point that thieves by nature are not warriors or dominant fighters. I agree a thief revamp of things to do is needed but I wouldn't consider exodus keys specifically an issue.You keep harping on gathering Exodus keys but what is your end game of gathering those keys? You haven;'t said anything about a thief killing the clockwork exodus; likely because they can't.
Sure, Clockwork Exodus needs fighting characters to be killed, nonetheless, as it was mentioned, there might be players who, "for a change", might prefer to use a "non-fighting" Rogue character to gather the keys and THEN, use their other, fighting character to go fight the Clockwork Exodus.....
Yet, while they might like the idea of using, "for a change", a non-fighting Rogue character to gather the Exodus keys, the abysmally much lower, to my opinion, chance of getting keys as compared to using a fighting character to gather them, might totally deter them from using a Rogue and make them "dust" their Rogue and just use a Fighting character all along the line....
THIS, is what I am trying to argue about....
The OP talks about a "retired" thief character.... I am just voicing up withan example that, perhaps, just perhaps, there are sound reasons about "why" players may have retired Rogues in UO, if other characters can get the job done faster, more efficiently....
Key word being play. I totally agree with @Petra_Fyde ;Petra_Fyde said:My last word on this topic.Dictionary Definition
play:
engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.This is how I play UO. It's not a 'job', I don't need to do it faster, or more efficiently, I just need to enjoy it.
Petra_Fyde said:My last word on this topic.Dictionary Definition
play:
engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.This is how I play UO. It's not a 'job', I don't need to do it faster, or more efficiently, I just need to enjoy it.
+1Riner said:That’s funny @ JenniferMarie as I read this thread I found myself laughing about all the whining that thief’s didn’t get the keys as fast as fighters. I make 20-30 keys in a less than a hour. @ popps I know this has been said before but perhaps you have forgotten, not all templates give the same results. There will never be equality among the different templates or play styles. There is no intent to even try. You have to look at the options and decide what you want out of playing. So please stop wasting time whining that everyone should get the same prize no matter how they play.
I know this character is probably 100% humor and likely not meant to optimize gear but I did want to mention that there are several +skill items a thief can use (burglar bandana / cloak of silence / royal guard cloak / jewelry / etc ) to essentially add a whole other skill to the thief template (ie ninja).Ben said:Before I started doing champ spawns a few months ago, my thief was always my funnest character to play. I still take him out now and then just to grab what is out there or to explore or observe others undetected.
For me, the measure of a good PvM Thief, would be one who has collected all of the items from; Bedlam + Doom + Tokuno Dungeons + Wrong + BMV Ararat + Castle Blackthorn + Stygian Abyss + Underworld + VvV.
Quite a lot of content, fun collecting it, not worth so much, but it’s the challenge of the collection really. Lot of pages in the Wki giving info, overall, a fair amount of content.
Stealing – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Stealing from Monsters – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Artifacts – Doom Stealable – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Artifacts – Tokuno Stealable – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Artifacts – Stygian Abyss and Underworld Stealable – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Stealing in Dungeons – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Stealing from Town Shops – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Stealing in Exodus Dungeon – Ultima Online (uo.com)
There are also Left-over Hidden Chests from Kotl and Khaldun that are fun to collect, as well as in the Underwater BMV Ararat – which I cannot find a reference to anywhere.
Halloween – Treasures of the Kotl City – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Halloween – Treasures of Khaldun – Ultima Online (uo.com)
Stealing Sigils part of VvV is fun, and makes all the rewards there easily collectable, especially the Deco if you wanted that to add to the collection. Sounds PvP – but the Sigil stealing part is mostly PvM these days.
Vice vs Virtue - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia
At the footer of this link, are a lot of Deco items that are collectable.
You can also get Armour Refinements from towns;
Armor refinement - UOGuide, the Ultima Online Encyclopedia
And finally, Dungeon Chests are fun.
Haha - Yes, I saw them, and they are fantastic, I was going to include them, but the bit I was specifically after - was the Hidden Chests around the Ship - such as those found in Khaldun, Kotl or Exodus - I did not see them mentioned. 🙂Mariah said:
Ahh those Banners are very cool, I think I've been meaning to get them forever, I'll definitely do it now, just my style. Yep, I did not find that page for some reason, think I was having internet issues or UO.Com was. Just read all the VvV stuff, yes I think it is perfect - I dont think locations have to be there, once youve found them, it gets easier. Your call. I do still know all the locations.Mariah said:There is nothing in the chests around the Ararat apart from a few small gems if I remember right.The main VvV page is here: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/virtue-versus-vice/ it includes a link to the tiles & banners page and information about stealing sigils. I did have images of where all the sigils can be found, but was asked by JC Builder not to publish it. I can add that information if it's deemed to be needed.
Yes - this is why they stuck in my head - one of the few places you could get them, outside mining etc. This was my point. That's why I'm saying I need to go down and check as well 🙂Mariah said:those are large gems, I thought the chests only had small ones. I may need to send my thief down there to check that.
Does JC still play ? Can you please add the sigil locationMariah said:There is nothing in the chests around the Ararat apart from a few small gems if I remember right.The main VvV page is here: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/virtue-versus-vice/ it includes a link to the tiles & banners page and information about stealing sigils. I did have images of where all the sigils can be found, but was asked by JC Builder not to publish it. I can add that information if it's deemed to be needed.
Skett said:Does JC still play ? Can you please add the sigil locationMariah said:There is nothing in the chests around the Ararat apart from a few small gems if I remember right.The main VvV page is here: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/virtue-versus-vice/ it includes a link to the tiles & banners page and information about stealing sigils. I did have images of where all the sigils can be found, but was asked by JC Builder not to publish it. I can add that information if it's deemed to be needed.
TyMariah said:Skett said:Does JC still play ? Can you please add the sigil locationMariah said:There is nothing in the chests around the Ararat apart from a few small gems if I remember right.The main VvV page is here: https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/virtue-versus-vice/ it includes a link to the tiles & banners page and information about stealing sigils. I did have images of where all the sigils can be found, but was asked by JC Builder not to publish it. I can add that information if it's deemed to be needed.
The link to this should appear at the bottom of the main VvV page around noon EST