Shard bound votes please

No more off shard buying elections..

This is one of the things I truly find to be sad. It makes me wonder why the team didn't implement this right from the start.

No changes to current system please.  Trading votes across shard promotes relationships that would otherwise not exist.   This should be kept in place. 

Didn’t we just go through this debate.
how much do votes sell for these days. 

Skett said:

Didn’t we just go through this debate.
how much do votes sell for these days. 

Ima need about tree fiddy

How do you police this? I play about 7 shards. Are you telling me I can only vote on one shard?

I have said it before and I’ll say it again for the people in the back:

The ability to change city loyalty or claim city loyalty should be suspended at governor election time. The moment nominees are allowed, for two weeks, you should not be able to adjust city loyalty. That would prevent people from “buying” votes from other shards in the moment just to gain an edge.

I'd suggest any shard where you own are co-owned or friended you can vote .i mean IF you're a part of the shards community and have established RELATIONSHIPS should be easy..

Voting should be restricted to where your main residents is.  Just because you have friends in other shards/states does not give you the right to vote in their election.  One vote per account per home shard only.

Who is rigging elections? What's the "perk" of being governor? Do you have some sort of access to actual funds within the treasury you can embezzle? Am I missing something here? I remember seeing a few burning scarecrows on ATL maybe 6 months ago that was warning the governors that they need to actually attend council meetings or they would be removed... all the position seems like to me is extra work all to simply set a town buff. Pass.

Because some people feel "important" with the governor tag or something? Who knows what makes some people tick. I know of at least one person on my home shard who goes off-shard and bribes for votes with gold or EM items.

 said:

Because some people feel "important" with the governor tag or something? Who knows what makes some people tick. I know of at least one person on my home shard who goes off-shard and bribes for votes with gold or EM items.

Tell them to PM me. I have votes!

Much like VvV should not work in tram town buffs should not work in fel this would fix the issue entirely 

Grimbeard said:

Much like VvV should not work in tram town buffs should not work in fel this would fix the issue entirely 

I still think that ego would be a powerful motivator for this kind of fraud.

JenniferMarie said:

I can honestly say the reason I got involved in wanting to be a governor is because I had an idea for an Easter event. We went so many years without even gifts, let alone live game-wide events, and a lot of people I play with on GL had a lot of disappointment about that so I took it upon myself to give them something.

That was maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and I've just kept at it as habit I guess. 😂

I think you fit my typology under, at minimum, this category: "The ability to hold events for your city."

keven2002 said:

Who is rigging elections? What's the "perk" of being governor? Do you have some sort of access to actual funds within the treasury you can embezzle? Am I missing something here? I remember seeing a few burning scarecrows on ATL maybe 6 months ago that was warning the governors that they need to actually attend council meetings or they would be removed... all the position seems like to me is extra work all to simply set a town buff. Pass.

I do it make the buff I want and to give my toons city Titles.

I think The Artisan tree only spawns in a city with a Governor, so that makes it better to have one in all cities.

Why no fel governors? Bucs den ocollo why no tokuno royal city umbra luna ?? and the floating emporium. Making it so everyone could be involved should be simple..

Ya the interest is so high. Im sure many cities have no Gov now...  Posters are complaining about having to sail to the Emporium, now you want a Gov and a tree?  Shouldn't all docks have them, why just that lame one?  And the Gypsy camps, have they not been ostracized enough? And the Orc Forts and the Brigand camps and Sanctuary where the NPCs are.  See how stupid that idea is?

Stopping off shard voting is a great idea until you come to ideas to implement it. I personally would love the idea. As for implementation you cannot limit it to shards where the account owns a home, as what about the voting rights of those who cannot afford a home? What about second or third accounts do they have to have homes as well? Ok so basing it off house ownership is out. What about if there was a restriction to changing Citizen? That would only push the planning out for the election. People who wanted to pull votes off shard would make arrangements early and still be able to vote. Basically, you have the same result if you put a restriction on the age of toon that can vote, let's face it people currently make toon ahead of time for no other reason than to trade gift items cross shards.  I think the final and perhaps the best idea I saw put forward was that each account declares a home shard. That then leads to people complaining that they can only Vote on one shard per account, but they play legitimately on multiple shards. Nothing can change without giving up some flexibility and freedom in how we conduct ourselves, but I think the declaration of a home shard which can change given a cooling down period is a good way to stop the practice. This could, by the way, also be used to limit the receiving of gifts. As they could limit it to your declared home shard and then that trading market would be gone. This doesn't have an easy answer and none that will please everyone, but it would be nice to see it go away and not be a factor in elections. 

What is the problem? If I have 30 accounts and want to help someone?
If you want to win that bad, you can also open 1,5,10,50 accounts and vote. There is no fraud involved. If I have 30, my bud have 20, my other bud have 40 accs, Hitomi have 100 active accs, so as you can see, is a win win, this game is all about who you know that can help.

Orich said:

What is the problem? If I have 30 accounts and want to help someone?
If you want to win that bad, you can also open 1,5,10,50 accounts and vote. There is no fraud involved. If I have 30, my bud have 20, my other bud have 40 accs, Hitomi have 100 active accs, so as you can see, is a win win, this game is all about who you know that can help.

The problem is that many people running for governor on their home shard will go off-shard to bribe people they *DON'T* know to get votes.

Orich said:

What is the problem? If I have 30 accounts and want to help someone?
If you want to win that bad, you can also open 1,5,10,50 accounts and vote. There is no fraud involved. If I have 30, my bud have 20, my other bud have 40 accs, Hitomi have 100 active accs, so as you can see, is a win win, this game is all about who you know that can help.

Under the current rule set voting with all those accounts, on all shards is very much permitted. Should it be, I'd argue no. You ask what's wrong with it. To answer that, first, it allows people to who take no part in the shard to run a town, in most cases taking it out of the active community. It also allows for people who the community recognizes as a harmful element to the shard's community to disrupt the shards population. To answer your next question, of who should decide this, I would say that it should be the active population of a shard. You would not want your real-life city, state, or country for that matter, run by people who do live there, and quite probably don't share your communities' values. I would add that it would be preferable to have voting linked to the master account, but again like all things there are two sides to that and work arounds. Off shard voting is a problem that is harming the community of many of the shards and should be stopped. 

As long as the person getting the votes is semi-active and isn't trying to sabotage the town (removing town buff etc), what's the issue here? 

Maybe I'm missing something so I'll go back to my question of "what is the point of being governor?" Let's say I win the election for the town race I run in. Aside from messing with the town buff and giving citizens titles.... what can I actually do that I couldn't if I weren't governor? To my understanding, governors don't have EM powers to lock things down or create rewards for events... and they don't get reimbursed for events so what's stopping me from just running those events and doing that stuff as simply a citizen of the town?

keven2002 said:

As long as the person getting the votes is semi-active and isn't trying to sabotage the town (removing town buff etc), what's the issue here? 

Asked and answered. See above.

JohnKnighthawke said:

keven2002 said:

As long as the person getting the votes is semi-active and isn't trying to sabotage the town (removing town buff etc), what's the issue here? 

Asked and answered. See above.

Not sure what you mean. 

I don't see the Governor position so much as a personal benefit but rather a chance to serve the community. The Governor of a town can help to build community, much the way a good guild can. This in turn leads to a healthier population on the server. Lacking this the city becomes a dead space of NPCs. In the end I believe a mmorph lives or dies based on its community. People stay not to fight the same fights but to enjoy the same friendships. So, what harm does this cause? To me it slowly helps to kill first the town, then the server, and finally the game. 

Riner said:

I don't see the Governor position so much as a personal benefit but rather a chance to serve the community. The Governor of a town can help to build community, much the way a good guild can. This in turn leads to a healthier population on the server. Lacking this the city becomes a dead space of NPCs. In the end I believe a mmorph lives or dies based on its community. People stay not to fight the same fights but to enjoy the same friendships. So, what harm does this cause? To me it slowly helps to kill first the town, then the server, and finally the game. 

What's stopping these said people from doing the same exact thing without the governor title? Without a governor tag; a community can't be built? I really don't care either way about the voting thing btw...I just don't understand why so many people are claiming it's ruining the community when people are free to do the same things without the governor title...if they really wanted to build the community. 

keven2002 said:

Riner said:

I don't see the Governor position so much as a personal benefit but rather a chance to serve the community. The Governor of a town can help to build community, much the way a good guild can. This in turn leads to a healthier population on the server. Lacking this the city becomes a dead space of NPCs. In the end I believe a mmorph lives or dies based on its community. People stay not to fight the same fights but to enjoy the same friendships. So, what harm does this cause? To me it slowly helps to kill first the town, then the server, and finally the game. 

What's stopping these said people from doing the same exact thing without the governor title? Without a governor tag; a community can't be built? I really don't care either way about the voting thing btw...I just don't understand why so many people are claiming it's ruining the community when people are free to do the same things without the governor title...if they really wanted to build the community. 

A lot of Governors participate in the Meeting with the King where they make up Lore about their city. It is a lot of fun.  Some of these players who do this just do it for griefing. They wont go to the Meetings and they will set the Town Buff to something stupid. And they wont be on to give titles to Citizens.

It’s not what you know but who you know? Seems voters feel the system is rigged knowing if it works for them it’s okay? 

Pawain said:

keven2002 said:

Riner said:

I don't see the Governor position so much as a personal benefit but rather a chance to serve the community. The Governor of a town can help to build community, much the way a good guild can. This in turn leads to a healthier population on the server. Lacking this the city becomes a dead space of NPCs. In the end I believe a mmorph lives or dies based on its community. People stay not to fight the same fights but to enjoy the same friendships. So, what harm does this cause? To me it slowly helps to kill first the town, then the server, and finally the game. 

What's stopping these said people from doing the same exact thing without the governor title? Without a governor tag; a community can't be built? I really don't care either way about the voting thing btw...I just don't understand why so many people are claiming it's ruining the community when people are free to do the same things without the governor title...if they really wanted to build the community. 

A lot of Governors participate in the Meeting with the King where they make up Lore about their city. It is a lot of fun.  Some of these players who do this just do it for griefing. They wont go to the Meetings and they will set the Town Buff to something stupid. And they wont be on to give titles to Citizens.

This is my understanding of what governors do (the meeting part). Basically they help EMs with ideas for EM events because they don't have the power to actually create monsters/drops etc. 

Kind of hard to imagine people actually going to the trouble of buying votes or whatever simply to grief. It's one thing if the person runs unopposed and just gets bored with UO and doesn't play but to actively recruit votes (from off shard) to change the town buff seems like a lot of work just to be a jerk.

keven2002 said:
Kind of hard to imagine people actually going to the trouble of buying votes or whatever simply to grief. It's one thing if the person runs unopposed and just gets bored with UO and doesn't play but to actively recruit votes (from off shard) to change the town buff seems like a lot of work just to be a jerk.

One thing I have learned after 16+ years of playing this game? Never underestimate the lengths some UO players will go to in the name of "griefing", "trolling", and "pettiness".

Votes are selling for between 13 and 15 million tonight..but everything is fine..

On what shard? Did I miss it?? I'd sell mine for 10m!

JenniferMarie said:

keven2002 said:
Kind of hard to imagine people actually going to the trouble of buying votes or whatever simply to grief. It's one thing if the person runs unopposed and just gets bored with UO and doesn't play but to actively recruit votes (from off shard) to change the town buff seems like a lot of work just to be a jerk.

One thing I have learned after 16+ years of playing this game? Never underestimate the lengths some UO players will go to in the name of "griefing", "trolling", and "pettiness".

Leave the election process as is.   We do not want or need “one vote for one account”.   It is a bad suggestion that will only decrease involvement in the elections and cross shard participation.

 

I currently have 40 accounts and voted more than 150 times across seven different shards this past week.  Maybe that makes me one of the bad guys, as it likely means that I probably put someone across the finish line that might not have won otherwise.   However, I spent quite a bit of time and effort wheeling and dealing to trade votes on Atlantic for votes across other shards...  most especially the process of helping others with ingots and gating in order to meet the loyalty requirements.  This process led me to make new friends, develop new relationships, ended up having me invited into new guilds and Discord servers, and ultimately helped increase my outreach into areas of the community beyond just Atlantic.   It’s because of this process that I will likely begin creating characters and interacting more in Catskills, Great Lakes and Lake Superior to play with the new friends I made. 

 

One of the great things about UO is that it sometimes mimics real life, and elections are no different.  My initial attraction to UO so many years ago was it’s “Wild West” factor, and these elections still have part of that.   To win a competitive race, you need to go out there and organize a get-out-the-vote effort.   You also need to strategize as to when people vote, as some folks wait until the end with a midnight surprise and some try to run up the score early to scare people off.   Other folks offer up gold for votes, which personally I don’t do, but I also don’t have a problem with it either.  Just like votes are “bought” in real life with various campaign promises and hand outs, offering UO gold is not much different.   Sure that means the “UO rich” might have an advantage, but again… mimics real life.  These factors all lead to unique strategies and situations across different towns and different shards.

 

This current election cycle was great fun.  Some of the races have their own drama to them and gives the community something to pay attention to.  Seeing the amount of coordination across some races is really interesting to watch, especially the few races that will sometimes have up to three or four viable candidates.    Some were big guild versus another big guild.  Some were a popular individual against an anti-candidate.  Some were a multi-shard alliance against a local force.   Each one of these races had their own flavor to them, and the dynamics were all different and unique.   Some people lose gracefully, and others do not.  I can understand that elections of any type make people uncomfortable, but at the end of the day, controlling the town buff and giving out City titles is about the extent of what these folks can ultimately do.  If someone loses a Governor race, they can still attend the Royal Council meetings.  On most shards, there will be one or two cities that had no one run for Governor, and those inclined can ask their local EM to be appointed to those seats if they promise to serve.   This process has been in place for years and has been working fine.   It is understandable that losers will come here to gripe about this, but these options to win are available to everyone.  You need to reach beyond your “local shard” to win… something I view as positive.

Some....well..... maybe many......people are gonna cry about something / anything.
This subject isnt worth it.

Again tram town buffs should not work in fel...

Grimbeard said:

Again tram town buffs should not work in fel...

Yes they should.  

Merlin said:

Grimbeard said:

Again tram town buffs should not work in fel...

Yes they should.  

I think we both know of our difference in opinion;)

Grimbeard said:

Merlin said:

Grimbeard said:

Again tram town buffs should not work in fel...

Yes they should.  

I think we both know of our difference in opinion;)

Yes - you feel the need to constantly speak on how Fel should be run when you never step foot in Fel and have admitted in the past as McdDougle that you dislike Fel. You don't need to speak on something that you have to interaction with. Stick to Fishing and Dev communication.

I have five accounts and play across several shards on all of them, back before the one house rules we had small towers or workshops, only when the one house rule came about forcing us, when upgrading, to lose those small towers and move to Inns or friends.  I use trade deals across those shards and I vote to keep what I like to see at those cities I am a citizen of.  I do not sell my votes, I give them freely to those I have grown to know over the years of playing this game and the world we call UO.  I also had people helping me with my office on Sonoma.  Recently another player ran against me.  Now I had voted on Cats and Atlantic, and they return the favor with votes for my character on Sonoma.  They did not have to, I did not ask, but they were kind enough to return the effort of my voting to vote for me.

I think the game will be better off if votes are limited to one vote per account regardless of where it is cast. You don't have to limit it by house ownership or anything else. One account = one vote. Use it where you want to.

I thought this was a widespread issue based on this thread but I guess it's really only a few cities on just a few shards?

There are a few cities on Origin that don't have a governor and to my surprise even Yew on ATL doesn't even have a governor after this most recent race (it was vacant previously too) which means that literally nobody even attempted to run. I should have run and won with 1 vote lol.

Vesper on ATL also did not have anyone run  this cycle (I was governor there last term).  

Having been a Governor for 3 consecutive terms, there is a hidden bonus.  As Governor the stone can be used as another Bank box and can store up to 125 items.  Personally, I love attending the role playing Governor Meetings with Lord Blackthorn.