Should mesanne delete all player memorials

Last night at m&g she says she plans on deleting all player memorials now that the new one is up .

The ones that are there really should stay. They are already part of the world. It’s nice when roaming around a shard and you stumble upon one. The shard history is important, I feel. 

The only thing I have to say about this at this point in time, is PLEASE someone  from each shard take pictures/screenshots of any memorials on your shard. Mesanna didn't say when this would happen so the sooner the better. 

I can't answer the question at the moment...part of me is appalled at the idea, it's like digging up someone's grave and putting them somewhere else...

On the other hand, this will give everyone the opportunity to visit players long past, 

I still don't know how I feel about it...but the first thing I did after the meeting was over was go take screenshots of the memorials we have on Origin before they disappear.


EDITED TO ADD:

She's not getting rid of them, she's moving them into the new area minus all the deco.

No one asked for clarification but I am assuming all will have tombstones? Or a special memorial stone?

Cmon now, Mesanna is not full on mafia style ruthless. 

It's only fair to move every stone to the new location. If not there's going to be that one person causing a stink why their friend had to go to UO's version of Arlington National instead of getting an over the top memorial in the woods. 

Shard EMs had to approve of out of the way memorial locations. I wouldn't doubt there are memorials in places that some players never even went to. 

Speaking of Arlington, I would ask @Kyronix to put some sort of classy NPC to be there like the guard at tomb of the unknown soldier. Something classy.  And grass. The starlight stuff is blah. 

Oh I agree she's not a horrible person, but to the people who were close to the dearly departed, there are mementos at these memorials that are very meaningful..books written by the people who knew them, words that will be forever forgotten because she's deleting them.

So while I understand the meaning behind it...maybe a reconsideration...no deco, that's fine..but maybe a book at each one? 

I think the ones that are already placed
should have all their deco be relocated to the new memorial area.
That decor was already approved.

I know busy shards like Atlantic would probably have more there
but they could always make the memorial area bigger.
And then the newer rules followed... by approval.

======

This year, I watched as a keep fell that had statues of a beloved friend.
That was his in game memorial at his parents home.
It was devastating to watch.
so I can see why people are upset at losing the items
that they wanted represented at their friends graves.

a Sonoma player Cami was buried in fel
and her grave is very beautiful
but I don't go that often, because of the location.
would love to see it relocated to the new memorial area
rather than to lose it.
she was like family and we still miss her to this day.

Sounds reasonable. Personally, i hope they're not done with the area. It's way too dark and gloomy and generic. 

I think it would have been much better suited on a new island with water around instead of that starlight stuff. Some grass, hedges, trees, benches and light would class it up. 

WE CAN'T KEEP ERASING HISTORY AT MESANNA WHIM..

The memorials are part of the game’s culture.  They should stay.  It has always amazed me that UO cared enough to work with long time players to set these up. I think setting up the memorial park for the future is a good idea but as for the existing memorials, they are part of the landscape now and they should stay.  UO’s biggest draw is the relationships that exist among the players.  Players get to know each other and develop the same kinds of relationships they do with other people outside of the game.  When I first started playing around 2019, two players long time players with health problems both made a huge impression on me during the short time that I knew them.  I still think of them sometimes.  They don’t have memorials, but for those that do, the memorials are more than just scenery to those who knew them and even those that just ride by.  The memorials should stay.  They represent what the game is really about.

I wonder if some people are complaining about the existing memorials and not being able to get the same thing now a days.  Sad to see history being deleted.
What is the difference between these and the stuff that people get when their house reaches a certain age.

Seems like with all the outstanding items on “the list” there is far better things for our producer to be working on…

Merus said:

Seems like with all the outstanding items on “the list” there is far better things for our producer to be working on…

I see decades old bugs ignored for the whim of the week. But in this case it's beloved people there is zero reason to remove any..

I don't understand why Mesanna wants to constantly remove player history, and before she was threatening to remove all the decorations at Britain Bank. I play Pacific and our Luna bank isn't even decorated so do these decorations really take that much that she needs to destroy them all???

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

I do know the locations had to be approved and out of the way with items that are already in game to be locked down so I don't share the same emotion about it being history and them being moved. 

Larisa did make a good point about the written books. Those should be moved. 

I actually think it's nice to have a mass location we can visit memorials of everyone that has passed. If the spot was cleaned up some. 

Destiny said:

I don't understand why Mesanna wants to constantly remove player history, and before she was threatening to remove all the decorations at Britain Bank. I play Pacific and our Luna bank isn't even decorated so do these decorations really take that much that she needs to destroy them all???

I think it's easy for her to delete items, just point and click. Debugging codes is not her expertise. 

And I fully agree that they should stop destroying each shard's 25 years of history and legacy. If she missed the 100% blank shard she should look for the 1997 CD and install them on another 100 servers but just leave ours alone.

Coming across one of the existing memorials on a shard makes the game more immersive and interesting. All future memorials should go in the new area, but old ones shouldn’t. The memorials give the shards character. 

What makes a game old some 25 Years show its history ?

To my opinion, the passage of players over those many Years across its Lands....

And players' Memorials, grandfathered Houses, Players' Towns, Shards' History Museums, are all signs of the passage of Players across these many Years, to my viewing....

Delete them, and what will remain of the game when it will have cancelled any sign of passage of players over these many Years ?

Just en empty container with no History because, at least to my opinion, it is the players animating that Land over time who gave it a feeling that they have been lived....

And this is also why I have always been opposed to GMs' Events items not being Shard Bound.... they start as part of the History of that Shard but then, inevitably in most cases, they get taken to Atlantic to be sold for hefty amounts.... and the Shard that generated them, often with a cleverhistory behind from the Game Master who created them on that Shard, gets deprived of their existance on the same Shard which gave them birth....

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

The idea of removing or even moving these parts of history is saddening. The memories of those that have departed in years past serve as part of the connection to the past. It is what makes a place like Ultima different from other games. Without the continuation of history into the future we lose the meaning and eventually the reason to stay. Please reconsider this move to erode the most important part of a MMORPG it’s history.

McDougle said:

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

AMEN

“Try not to think of the memorials as being deleted but instead changed and moved.

Went to the new site.  Honestly could you have made it anymore more barren?  Even the in game  graveyards have grass.  Come on UO you can do better than this.

McDougle said:

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

Atlantic is what keeps UO alive and where the most resources should be spent.   I don't care if people don't like that perspective - it's how most any business is run.  You spend the most time and resources where your revenue is generated from. 

Merlin said:

McDougle said:

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

Atlantic is what keeps UO alive and where the most resources should be spent.   I don't care if people don't like that perspective - it's how most any business is run.  You spend the most time and resources where your revenue is generated from. 

So pvp should be shut down based on your thinking 

Merlin said:

McDougle said:

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

Atlantic is what keeps UO alive and where the most resources should be spent.   I don't care if people don't like that perspective - it's how most any business is run.  You spend the most time and resources where your revenue is generated from. 

All the shards keep UO open.  I am sure that if all the shards but Atl quit UO would also die so there goes you entitlement out the friggin door.

Lord_Frodo said:

Merlin said:

McDougle said:

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

Atlantic is what keeps UO alive and where the most resources should be spent.   I don't care if people don't like that perspective - it's how most any business is run.  You spend the most time and resources where your revenue is generated from. 

All the shards keep UO open.  I am sure that if all the shards but Atl quit UO would also die so there goes you entitlement out the friggin door.

 😂 

Not forgetting many players play multiple shards, and also play as traders at Atlantic. It is chosen as the marketplace for trading goods back to our shard.

If Dev can make a cross shard vendor search, purchase and deliver directly to our shard, I think Atlantic traffic could be greatly reduced. 

Sometimes too much population isn't fun, e.g. lag, etc. So we disperse and play on other shards. But I also played ToT in Atlantic.

Always thought it would be a good idea to put libraries like at Empath Abbey and others to better use. Would be nice to place a book with images of characters who have passed and their stories, along with the names of others who wish to sign the text, sort of like at a mortuary during a wake. You could buy a token or even the book itself from the same place you collect your rewards from the Britannia Clean Up officer, or whatever his name is in Britain. While we are at it, you could also just trade in points for a book that is not a memorial testimony, but just a titled book that can stay the test of time for all to read.

Estel_Randir said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Merlin said:

McDougle said:

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

Atlantic is what keeps UO alive and where the most resources should be spent.   I don't care if people don't like that perspective - it's how most any business is run.  You spend the most time and resources where your revenue is generated from. 

All the shards keep UO open.  I am sure that if all the shards but Atl quit UO would also die so there goes you entitlement out the friggin door.

They are just telling us what they really think about us. This is the third "loudest voice" poster in a couple of days to blatantly & basically tell everyone that is not on Atlantic that they are unimportant & UO would go on if they shut down all shards but Atlantic. Wonder if they are all New Yorkers.....

EA give me a refund for my continuous 24+ yr subscriptions and I'll be on my way.

You are taking it out of perspective and I don't see where me or Merlin said anything about shutting down all shards except ATL. Don't let McTroll or Frodo muddy it up. I'll clarify what I said:

The issue is that the voices of the few from very low pop shards like Baja/Sonoma/Origin are constant (whining/complaining) are always the ones saying "well I noticed ATL has X... well I also pay a subscription so my shard should also get X because it's only fair". The Devs look at the request and likely see that it doesn't make sense so they do not grant it. What follows is 30 more threads or emails from the same people saying "it's not fair" until the Devs just get fed up and rather than give the whiners their way (which they should not) they just take it away from everyone so nobody gets it. 

The ironic thing about this is that majority of these people want to have their very own version of UO and do not play the game much with others anyway so while they scream about "the community" it's really for their own personal use. Even more ironic is the same people who constantly talk down about ATL have chars on ATL or travel there with some frequency...they want all the benefits of the most populated shard in the game while still acting like their shard is equal (if it was they wouldn't need to be concerned with ATL). 

Then you have the tip of the hypocrisy iceberg with people saying "ATL Entitlement" which is really just a front for their own entitlement for their low population shard. Outside of ToT events being in Fel for ATL, I don't think I've seen anyone from ATL say "ATL needs X". Also keep in mind that nobody is really saying "Fel should only be ATL and no other shards"... if the Devs want to give Fel to some shard like Baja which doesn't even have Tram active that's up to them to decide if the population makes that a requirement (ATL doesn't care). What happens then is that Baja/Origin don't get it and now those whiners say "well ATL shouldn't get it if my shard doesn't" which is really where the entitlement comes from. The sad and unfortunate part of all of this is that the squeaky wheels from these low population shards barely even partake in these events but feel the need to speak on them anyway like some low pop shard ambassador. 

I don't think it's entitlement to think that the business decisions (or really any decision) should be influenced by the majority but rather economics/democracy. 

I've also never said only ATL should be getting something and no other shards. Other shards like higher pop shards LS/Europa/Yamato etc should get the same type of treatment. 

keven2002 said:

Estel_Randir said:

Lord_Frodo said:

Merlin said:

McDougle said:

Merlin said:

keven2002 said:

I'm not really sure if this is the reason or not but I could see Mesanna just being tired of the whining of a handful of people saying "it's not fair" or "well X shard had that". To stop/prevent the "unfair" complaint it's easier just to completely take it away from everyone because heavens forbid that one gets something another doesn't. 

That was the case for Brit Bank potentially having decorations removed and I think it's probably the reason Fel isn't active full time for this event. 

This ^^^

It's because complainers from non-Atlantic shards moan and groan, despite that they make up a small percentage of subscriptions.  These folks punch way above their weight class.   Ironically, they're also the same people saying 'we must preserve history'.  In other words, they want everything to be 'fair' and force everyone to share in misery, but think they're going to have their cake and eat it too by having their respective 'history' preserved. 

Your sense of Atlantic entitlement is sickening 

Atlantic is what keeps UO alive and where the most resources should be spent.   I don't care if people don't like that perspective - it's how most any business is run.  You spend the most time and resources where your revenue is generated from. 

All the shards keep UO open.  I am sure that if all the shards but Atl quit UO would also die so there goes you entitlement out the friggin door.

They are just telling us what they really think about us. This is the third "loudest voice" poster in a couple of days to blatantly & basically tell everyone that is not on Atlantic that they are unimportant & UO would go on if they shut down all shards but Atlantic. Wonder if they are all New Yorkers.....

EA give me a refund for my continuous 24+ yr subscriptions and I'll be on my way.

You are taking it out of perspective and I don't see where me or Merlin said anything about shutting down all shards except ATL. Don't let McTroll or Frodo muddy it up. I'll clarify what I said:

The issue is that the voices of the few from very low pop shards like Baja/Sonoma/Origin are constant (whining/complaining) are always the ones saying "well I noticed ATL has X... well I also pay a subscription so my shard should also get X because it's only fair". The Devs look at the request and likely see that it doesn't make sense so they do not grant it. What follows is 30 more threads or emails from the same people saying "it's not fair" until the Devs just get fed up and rather than give the whiners their way (which they should not) they just take it away from everyone so nobody gets it. 

The ironic thing about this is that majority of these people want to have their very own version of UO and do not play the game much with others anyway so while they scream about "the community" it's really for their own personal use. Even more ironic is the same people who constantly talk down about ATL have chars on ATL or travel there with some frequency...they want all the benefits of the most populated shard in the game while still acting like their shard is equal (if it was they wouldn't need to be concerned with ATL). 

Then you have the tip of the hypocrisy iceberg with people saying "ATL Entitlement" which is really just a front for their own entitlement for their low population shard. Outside of ToT events being in Fel for ATL, I don't think I've seen anyone from ATL say "ATL needs X". Also keep in mind that nobody is really saying "Fel should only be ATL and no other shards"... if the Devs want to give Fel to some shard like Baja which doesn't even have Tram active that's up to them to decide if the population makes that a requirement (ATL doesn't care). What happens then is that Baja/Origin don't get it and now those whiners say "well ATL shouldn't get it if my shard doesn't" which is really where the entitlement comes from. The sad and unfortunate part of all of this is that the squeaky wheels from these low population shards barely even partake in these events but feel the need to speak on them anyway like some low pop shard ambassador. 

I don't think it's entitlement to think that the business decisions (or really any decision) should be influenced by the majority but rather economics/democracy. 

I've also never said only ATL should be getting something and no other shards. Other shards like higher pop shards LS/Europa/Yamato etc should get the same type of treatment. 

Again you are full of Atlantic entitlement ..

What do you call it? Sugar trolling? Congrats on being the biggest troll on the forums. You finally beat out your pal for the top spot. 

keven2002 said:

What do you call it? Sugar trolling? Congrats on being the biggest troll on the forums. You finally beat out your pal for the top spot. 

You come and act like both Atlantic and pvp are special and insult anybody that disagrees but I'm the bad one ? I without a doubt am incredibly annoying but your sense of entitlement is sickening 

McDougle said:

keven2002 said:

What do you call it? Sugar trolling? Congrats on being the biggest troll on the forums. You finally beat out your pal for the top spot. 

You come and act like both Atlantic and pvp are special and insult anybody that disagrees but I'm the bad one ? I without a doubt am incredibly annoying but your sense of entitlement is sickening 

Again congrats on being the biggest troll on the boards. Please let us know when you actually have something worthwhile to offer besides sugar trolling. I can't seem to find the last time you actually were helpful in answering anyone's question. Nobody needs your toxic trollish behavior... back to your cave.

This is where I really wish there was an ignore feature so I could apply it. There are literally zero posts that you make in which I find helpful and would be a perfect solution to the toxic junk you post.

I think this has gone far enough.